Added: 1 year ago
From: yhckelly
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  • Great no nonsense information! I'm a huge fan of the 1095 crovan blades, and have been hesitating on the stainless Mora; not any more. I can't wait to give it a go. Many thanks.

    Cheers

  • i am sorry but yours is also an opinion same as everybody. i have heard you put more stress on steels than anybody in you tube which kinda defeats and contra your opening speech

  • @jan1761 In regards to the opinion thing, your absolutely right. This information is coming from an opinionated guy! I like 12c27 based on my fairly extensive experience with it. Just today I taught a class on the importance of cover and shelter for wilderness survival at a local elementary school. I issued 9 kids 12c27 Moras for the hands on stuff. They were blown away by the sharpness of the blade, made possible by the scandi grind and the tight grain of 12c27. Have a good one!

  • can you forge this steel?

  • I used Mora Clippers in carbon and 12c27 stainless side by side for a while and edge retention was virtually identical and could actually get the 12c27 Clippers sharper than my carbon versions.

  • I've been a little dissapointed with the Sandvick, I have the Mora Companion Carbon which has been sick! I also have a Mora Companion Stainless, the stainless keeps rolling on the edge after simple carving usage. I can see and feel the edge knicked up after making maybe 1-2 tent pegs out of pine?

  • @MarcoMontana22

    Sometimes (not always) , factory edges have to be used and sharpened quite a bite because the most outer layers are tempered too soft, you need to uncover the harder steel that's just beneath .

    That may be your explanation.

  • @MarcoMontana22 You must have gotten a bad one then. I have lots of carbon and stainless knives, including Moras of both types, and the 12c27 Moras are tough as nails even with batoning, etc. I did have a carbon Clipper chip on me once though.

  • "No name brand name company is going to risk a good reputation by using terrible steel" - really? Are you serious? How many 420 and 440 knives by Buck and Case have you used? They don't hold an edge worth a flip! 12C27 is an exception to all other stainless steels.

  • @poneyboy23 I do these vids for fun, and I like to keep it light. You obviously disagree with my assessment. I'll stand by my comment. In my extensive testing, I have found even cheap steel, like M-Tech 440 series stuff, does pretty well. Check out my channel to see testing. I put them through alot of stuff, and they did well! Buck, Case, and other higher dollar knives will consider their steel choice with even more discernment. Any name brand knife will have sufficient steel. Have a good one!

  • @yhckelly I understand what you're doing. I like your format and willingness to dialogue openly, so don't take it too negatively. But folks need to know that it is not necessarily the case. In my experience, there's a lot of terrible steel out there by major knife makers - steel that doesn't take a good edge and/or doesn't retain an edge. It's an easily tested fact. I've been messing with knives since the early 70's and they aren't all good or even decent. Many aren't worth buying.

  • @poneyboy23 Point taken. In any case, we can agree on one thing- 12c27 is really good stuff! Take care!

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  • @poneyboy23

    And I might add that many brands using excellent quality steels like D2 or S30V don't apply a proper heat treatment on their steels, making them suckier than , well tempered, inferior steels.

  • @chibraxial Yes, I just compared my cheap Schrade 1095 pen knife to a Case SS peanut by whittling on a stick. Within 20 strokes, the Case was no longer razor sharp although still decent. The Schrade with 1095 just kept on whittling and kept on cutting hair. I have a Queen in D2 that has the same result as the Case in stainless. The D2 does require polishing and it only takes 30 seconds to bring it back whereas the Case takes more time and effort to bring back.

  • @poneyboy23

    People often ignore that the heat treatment process (even exists/ ) is of *major* importance when talking about steels (any solid metals actually) . It's the process that will "configure" the steel and from that, a lot of perormance is gained or lost ...

    Heat Treatment is hardly marketable, because it's too technical for the average person, that's why.

  • @chibraxial You could take a good steel and make it worse with bad heat treatment. But you can't take a steel beyond it's best with any amount of good heat treating. I've heard that 440C can be a great steel and indeed, some custom makers supply it. However, I don't think the best 440C will ever be as easy to sharpen and maintain edgewise as a properly done 1095 or O1 or CV. It's the eternal trade off that you have to deal with. And it's just my opinion formed from you experience.

  • @poneyboy23

    But I think your opinion is right, since I agree with you. :)

    Still: any steel could be turned to s**** with the wrong heat treat. And a low tier 420hc can outperform a badly heat treated S30V or Unobtainium X666 , any-effin'-day.

    Theorically, EACH separate steel alloy has its own HT process, and each specific HT process requires torough tweaking to achieve the best performance balance for the cuting tool's intended uses .

    ps: we don't know what are the "limits" of a steel.

  • @chibraxial I would say that we do know the theoretical limits are of a given steel. It's like knowing the wavelength properties of a particular lasing medium from it's energy states etc. It is what has guided us to create S30V and other such materials. Knowing the limit guides us to where we can go with it - how to melt it etc. And heat treating isn't all that mysterious. Once can choose to do it cheaply. But the best treatment for a given steel is generally known. It can come down to cost.

  • @poneyboy23

    Metallurgy is a science. As such we have no certainty, because no science is shielded against new discoveries. Old fundamental concepts become secondary concepts, old limits (let's call that "ignorance") vanish new ones comes. I don't think we can pretend to master matter yet. So, i'll stick with that: we don't know the limits. We know our limits.

    I'm sure there's a very interesting path to follow when mixing HT and magnetic fields "tweakages", atomic alignment etc etc . My 2cents

  • @chibraxial So let's try "the limits are knowable". My one metallurgist friend can read knife steel charts and tell me what they will do. And he's generally right.

    Truly, every carbon steel blade I have holds an edge better than every stainless blade I have. Other factors beyond heat treatment are blade geometry and materials being cut. But my little Schrade pen knife keeps on shaving while all my stainless blades stop shaving after a few cuts. Anecdotal, but telling.

  • @poneyboy23

    How will the suits of processes be called in the future? Atomic/Quantic Configuration Process(es) ? Oh my Dog, I can see the marketing guys popping some 500$ Champagne bottles already !

  • @chibraxial There are some steels I won't consider - I'll never buy another knife in 440C or 420 or "surgical steel". The lowest steel that I'll consider is ATS-34 but I prefer BG42. It's so easy to get an inexpensive and excellent performing knife in carbon steel that unless I need stainless for a reason, there's no reason for the trade-off in edge holding. We can talk about heat treat all day, but I have a drawer full of knives that say "stainless is inferior" however that came to be.

  • @poneyboy23

    Oh well, no problem wiht that claim. I can't claim I extensively tested all the high end Carbon and SS .

    I noticed a CPM S30V from spyderco holds a better edge than a 1095 from kabar... does it say something about the inherent qualities of the steels, or about the quality of their heat treatment..or both in various degrees.

  • @chibraxial Yea, I don't own any S30V, so wouldn't know. The only true test is knife to knife because that's the real world. If you have a standard, you can measure your knives against it. For me, that standard is something like a Mora laminated blade or a Lauri blade. Heck, you could probably compare 10 Case CV blades and they would all perform differently albeit within a set of parameters.

  • Pretty cool, I've been concerned about the stainless blades breaking or losiing an edge quickly, so I 've not purchased any.

    As I stated in another video I purchased the Mora Companion stainless and will beat the shit out of it as I do the carbon blades and let ya know what I think.

  • I will focus on feel and edge retention. Great knife for the money! I just got burned out on guys posting about their 200$ knives. From the sounds of it a video crew will be there for the event, so a response video will be in the future.

  • I have put my mora craftline up to a challenge against high dollar knifes. What should I focus on to win the challenge? The incredible edge or just start beating on it til the competition decides not to destroy their knife also?

  • @chase51581 If I was you, I'd make a sampling of general tasks suited for both knives. Then "go to it" and see which blade handles the general task the best in both feel and edge retention. Whatever wins out, it sounds like fun- have a good one!

  • @yhckelly how hard is it to sharpen?

  • @theswordsman09 12c27 is extremely easy to sharpen (as far as sharpening goes) because of it's fine grain structure. That's one of the reasons I flat out love the stuff. Have a good one!

  • @chase51581 How about setting it next to the fire so the handle can melt while the competitions Bark River knife just gets hot and survives unharmed. . .Maybe you could challenge someone with a Black Jack knife to a batoning contest to make firewood so you can eat your crow well done rather than cold and raw.

  • @red0ubtable Whoa! If you overcook crow, it tastes like pigeon! Just sear in the juices for a rich, favorable experience. In this case, the fine lightweight cutting power of your average Mora will do a wonderful job preparing your meal! I must say though, eating my hat was an entirely different, less delicious experience. Have a good one! :)

  • 12C27 is on the tie line for C/Cr stainless steels which includes 440C. This means it has the same corrosion resistance and hardness of 440C. 12C27 however has a very low carbide content so its wear resistance is much lower but the edge stability is much higher. In short if you wanted a knife to stay very sharp you would pick 12C27, if you wanted a knife to hold a lower sharpness for a long time pick 440C.12C27M is a similar steel which has a reduce hardness and increased corrosion resistance.

  • @CliffStamp Thanks for the fine details! Have a good one!

  • Great video. I'm a Plumber and I lost my general purpose fixed blade work knife recently. It was a Fallkniven WM-1 with VG-10 stainless. The VG-10 was absolutely brilliant in my opinion. It sharpened easily, kept an edge well, chipped a little though with a careless slip in the work environment. My replacement is an EKA H8 in Sandvik steel. I now have confidence in this blade after seeing your video. I need a decent blade to do my job. 12c27 appears to fit my needs. Thanks for your time. Stig

  • @theoldstigster 12c27 is a great steel- I use it in the concrete construction industry when a stand-alone blade is called for. The finer grain structure makes for an easy sharpen and edge retention is very good for a fine blankable steel. Thanks for the comment. Have a good one!

  • @theoldstigster Mora knives have the great advantage of "loseability"- they're so cheap that you don't break a sweat about losing one. 12c27 is great steel, but it rusts in salt-water.

  • @mwchinbach I agree- bust it, lose it, give it away, no big deal. Thanks for the comment, have a good one!

  • My only experiece so far with 12C27 is with a teeny little blade by Boker Plus "Gnome model". The new blade came to me with an asymetrical grind, just a few degrees, but enough for me to break out the sharpening gear. With such a small blade I figured that I could correct it with my ceramic stick set rather than reprofling with my Apex Edgepro. Unbelievably the little devil ate quite a few hours of my time. It is seriously hard stuff, hope the edge resists dulling as well as it does sharpening.

  • @1lupus It's my favorite stainless- pick up a cheap Mora in 12c27 and beat it aggressively, then take some time to work back the edge. I consistently notice that it sharpens "smoother" than other stainless offerings in the price range, like 440c or the popular Chinese 8cr13mov (both decent steels as well). Thanks for the comment!

  • great review. professional. to the point. had my attention 100%. thank you sir.

  • @bieli0 Your welcome! thanks for commenting, have a good one.

  • As you see in the video stainless will shower sparks from a firesteel. You can not get ANY sparks from a piece quartz or flint with a stainless knife blade. Lets face it we all take these firesteels out with us camping or hiking. Chances are we have on in our pocket and one or two packed away. You really only need a carbon steel blade anymore if you plan on making a fire the hard way with quartz or flint. Stainless blades take sharp edges and perform just as fine as a carbon blade.

  • @BriarsandBrambles You know, I never tried to throw a spark from a stone with any of my knives. My cousin likes to find chirt and use an old school striker for fun, but I never really got into it. I was told that it's possible to get a spark by striking any stone to steel that has a Rockwell hardness greater than 5x (?) no matter the property of the stone or the steel. Maybe that's wrong. Thanks for the comment, have a good one!

  • I appreciate your straight forward and concise description of the Sandvik 12c27 steel used by Mora. You did not fall to the same mistakes as so many of those presenting knife reviews like harping on the same old subject matter for half the video (like this sentence is an example of.......). You tastefully touched upon the things that concern most of us, then moved on. And except for the overuse of the word "stellar", you didn't use old worn-out knife or steel clinches.

    Thank you.

  • @RonRay Thanks for you kind words. I'm having fun making these, and I'm glad folks are finding them useful in review. Have a good one!

  • Great info thanks for showing.

  • I seen that I double posted and tried to remove one comment and it took them both away! :(

  • Comment removed

  • @sackett68 Thanks for the comment- 12c27 performs almost the exact same for me as the 1095 carbon offerings, and I like the stainless properties. I must admit I can get a slightly keener edge on the 1095, but its so close that in the woods it offers no discernible advantage. I liked your review on the peasant knife- just might roll over to ragweed forge and pick one up now!

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