a lot people use the this to defend there view. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." To me this only means that since Jesus died for our sins. That hes is the to bridge to god. But it says nothing about if you have to believe in Jesus to use that bridge. If you truly believe that Jesus died for our sins. Then it was for the sins of all mankind. Not just a select group of people.
In the last several years I have slowly moved away from the "eternal burning hell" view. I see it as something slowly developed by those wishing for a mind control tool or mechanism. To be blunt: it is a filthy and cowardly doctrine. There is so much against it that that any supporting the "hell" doctrine simply want it to be true. Romans 6:23, by itself, trumps anything put forth to support a burning hell doctrine. And 1 Corinthians 15:22 says that in Christ all are made alive.
Thank you Gary. All the people I have known who love the hell idea, and hold it dear as the foundation of their faith, DO NOT EVER TAKE THE TIME TO SEARCH TO SEE WHAT the Scriptures have. They avoid concordances, ignore Paul's letters, and are just happy they have made up their minds. They don't care that a giant list of passages (put back in their contexts!) declare that there is a larger hope than "hell", & they have been duped by blasphemers who believe Christ and His cross FAILED.
Ephesians 1v11 says the elect have received the inheritance in advance of the rest of creation. I don't think it's fruitful to insist salvation is depending on the gift of faith (2 Pet 1v1) beyond this world.
Romans 11: ...'even so these also have now been disobedient, taht through the mercy shown you they also may abtain mery. For God has committed them ALLLLL to disobedience that He might have mercy upon all. Oh, the depth of the riches of both of the wisodm and knowledge of God. 1 Cor. 15:22-28 reveals a progression of the salvation of all mankind in groups. How can you LEARN to give mercy unless God gives you enemies on which to pour His mercy? He hardens and He makes alive. Be grateful, not ven
@peterpulpitpounder Basanos as in Rev 18v10. So what do you make of that? God's ways are tough love, but to remove the final restoration of all things by the potter is actually an attack on that Word of God which refuses to fit into any neat package. Calvin had the basics right, but he rejected what Romans 8-11 actually teaches about God's sovereign will for mankind.
Well I certainly understand your continued searching and also coming to the end of religion. That's not a bad place to be, but it ultimately becomes hopeless and depressing. And it's not the truth. I've been without religion as an atheist. I've been in religion, it stinks. But then there is the reality of meeting your Maker. THAT, will give you love joy and peace you've never dreamed of, but i can't give that to you by information, it comes another way.
God in the head is simply our concept of Him, whether we call our selves deists or some religion. Concepts of God we invent through our studying is simply information. But when God connects with you, and reveals Himself to you, then that's something different. And one can't give that to another person. Each person has to experience this connection. Deists live in their own beliefs. Connecting is something different and hard to explain to someone who is in their own beliefs.
When was an atheist, I said the same thing. I went to the O.T. to show my wife, who had just become a Christian, that her religions was insane. I would read those O.T. passages to her and tell her she was NOT going to pervert our children with those kinds of evil thoughts. Then on Valentine's day 1985, Jesus came into my being and healed me of alcoholism and completely turned my life upsidedown. Gave me new eyes and now I things in the O.T. in a new light, can't explain that is posts like this.
Well, I've met many people who have been deeply touched and lives transformed by this Jesus of Nazareth but I've never met one changed by Enlil and Enki, nor ancient Egyptian gods. I've read the books that say Christianity is but a reinvention of ancient pagan myths. I've read the myths and read the books of those who believe Christianity is a reinvention. The myths never did a thing for me..but this Jesus character transformed my life. In me, He is not a myth, He is my life.
Thayer comments on basanos, explaining the term to first refer to a black stone used to test the purity of gold or silver, and then to a rack or instrument of torture used to force someone into devulging the truth, to the pain of disease, and then to the torment of eternal condemnation.
It clearly came to refer to pain, vexation and torment.
YES, the rack came MUCH later, when the Church turned dark and sinister and TORTURED people through exquisite means. The Church has turned many good words into evil. They changed this word, they inserted words like damned that completely changed the nature and character of God. The injects all manners of wickedness into the Scriptures and now more and more translations are removing this filth. The origins of this word has to do with testing, evaluating, bringing to the bottom of things, NOT tor
Hi Gary. I've read through all the comments here. I find them fascinating.
The fact that some christians still believe in a literal eternal hell astounds me, and the fact that they think this is a "just" punishment totally astounds me.
God loves us all, but if we don't believe, we'll burn in hell forever.
I'm sorry, but if that's true then God doesn't love us. He hates us. Passionately.
If hell is literal & eternal, then God is evil.
Hell is a myth. The bible NEVER mentions it. Simple
You're right, the original languages of the Bible never mentions Hell, but it does mention the Cross of Christ. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will drag (literally drag in Greek) all mankind unto Myself. This he spoke signifying what manner of death He should die." John 12:32, 33 Let's lift Him up in praise, for He is worthy. There is nothing about Hell that is worthy. It's a terrible stain on His character and work on the cross.
The LOF has been "prepared" for the wicked, just as the kingdom has been prepared for the righteous. Both are literal places, the one of damnation, the other of eternal glory (Mat. 25). "All" in John 12:32 means "all manner" of men (Jew & Gentile, not to literally every soul who ever lived.
But this lake of fire in a "divine fire." Brimstone is the word theeion a derivative of theos. Brimstone was used to heal, to prevent disease, to purify temples. Everyone will be salted with fire. YOU, pulpitpounder will discover you ain't holy yet and will need a little dose (maybe a big dose) of holy fire to cleanse you of your self-righteousness and pride. And "all" in John 12:32 means ALLLLL. You want to diminish that because you have evil in your heart.
There is absolutely NOTHING in the Biblical text, contextually or otherwise, which warrants a positive interpretation of the the Lake of Fire. Your thinking has been poisoned by garbage commentary. And does "all" in John 8:2 mean every last person in Jerusalem? How about John 4:29? It's quite obvious Jesus did not address every last act and action this woman peformed in her lifetime. All in John 12:32 refers to both Jews and Gentiles, that is, to all manner of men.
Well pulpit thumper that is because you are locked up in fear and preach fear. So you have the eyes of a Pharisee, you're blind. But when the love of God is shed in your heart, you will see things unimaginable to a religious mind. Go watch tested in the lake of fire on the tentmaker777 channel. See how grossly mistranslated the Greek word basanos has been in most popular Bible translations.
Nope. Wrong. Plenty of hope and mercy in the message I preach, but, unlike yourself, I'm not imbalanced nor drunk on the love of God so as to neglect the whole counsel of God when it comes to the matter and reality of condemnation. And when it comes to the use of basanos, especially in revelation, the meaning is that of judgment not purification or rehab. Matthew 8:6 is another example where it means "tormented" or "vexed," not purified or tested. The context is clear.
pounder, is basanos as touchstone or isn't it? Have you ever burned someone alive with a touchstone? I have one and never hurt a flee with one. The Jesus of the Bible doesn't "balance" His love with torturing people alive forever. "You've heard is said an eye for an eye..." but I tell you to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." That's the Jesus of the bible, not the torturer you subscribe to.
If there was a torment place of hell why wouldn't it be in the OT? The only word that has sometimes been translated as hell is the word "sheol" and by definition it means "grave", which where everyone went. jews, gentiles, evil, people, good people.
You are asking questions that require more space to answer than the short space given here. Visit tentmaker which is an org and go to Scholars Corner section or FAQ. All your questions are answered thoroughly there.
Because then you have to define these Hebrew and Greek words. When you do that you begin to see they are different from each other and the Hebrews did NOT have the idea of a place of everlasting tortures behind them. Then you see the traditional ideas of the afterlife came from non-hebrew sources. Hell, for example, is a Teutonic word, not a Hebrew or Greek word. It's mythological.
Also, the fact that some Bible translations do not mention hell or eternal punishment is not an argument in itself - more relevant is are these ones better translations, and who says so?
You are asking questions that require more space to answer than the short space given here. Visit tentmaker which is an org and go to Scholars Corner section or FAQ. All your questions are answered thoroughly there.
And there are a number of other places where he is depicted as referring to judgment, or to few being saved etc - why would he have made a big deal of it? If he was a universalist, was he saying, yes there is suffering after death for some people and you should really try to avoid it, but even so it does not last forever?
How do you account for the mention of eternal punishment in the sheep and goats passage, or why is Jesus depicted making such an extreme comment as it being better to cut of a hand or cut out your eye than to go into hell, if he did not think it existed and was terrible?
You are asking questions that require more space to answer than the short space given here. Visit tentmaker which is an org and go to Scholars Corner section or FAQ. All your questions are answered thoroughly there.
@orlando098 Its quite simple. How did those sheep escape the punishment of he'll according to that passage? By their good works right? Right, and if you look at the other parables either before or after are all about "works" its inconceivable to say that Christ was telling his disciples that they could go to hell by not having"good works".
i agree with most of this, except for when he said "pagans taught eternal torment". this is a very general statement and can be taken the wrong way. most pagans (a very VERY broad term) around the world taught of periods of torment, similar to periods of torment everyone experience here on earth, except taking place in a spiritual realm. many pagans who dealt with "eternity" taught annihilation or reincarnation and nirvana.
I thought the spread of atheism was damning, but universalism is a blatant deception. Imaging telling ppl: "there is no sin. if you don't get caught, it's not a crime. do as thy wilt." that's the most satanic chaotic message man can teach to a fallen world, but to do it in the name of Christ, calling him a liar is a massive abomination. Stop listening to these satanic feel-good messages and READ THE BIBLE, PEOPLE!!!
God gives us no leverage to be naive & gullible to satanic temptations!!!
Oh, there is sin all right. Calling Jesus the worst failure on the planet is a BIG SIN and you should be ashamed of yourself. The Bible calls Him the "Savior of the world." I'll believe that and stand against your blasphemous lies about the lamb who takes away the SIN OF THE WORLD. :-)
@tentmaker777 "you should be ashamed of yourself" yes, I am & you know why I'm ashamed? because I'm willfully sinful before a Holy God & there is nothing I can do redeem myself: no religion, no ritual, no works... nothing! Self-righteousness doesn't save. Only Jesus, the one and ONLY Christ can save. "I am the way, the truth and the life: NO ONE comes to the Father, but by ME" If works can save, why did Jesus ever bother to warn us of false prophets & satanic deceptions?
I am not ashamed of myself because Jesus delivered me from shame and condemnation. Obviously you are still in it. You admit it is grace and only grace that saves and yet you have the audacity to deny that grace can save everyone. You limit the power of God's grace. Now that IS something to be ashamed of. :-)
@tentmaker777 "I am not ashamed of myself" If you think self-righteousness can ever be a good thing, you should read what Jesus said about the Pharisees.
skewbrain, you said self-righteousness is NOT a good thing. Precisely the point. That you should consider yourself a candidate for heaven while consigning most of mankind to rot in a hell is the epitome of self-righteousness. Why are you so blind that you cannot see that?
@tentmaker777 I'm not God so I don't make the rules. The Bible is clear that the entire world is under the deception. You're the one saying you have no shame. You are a willful sinner just like everybody else so you have no place to be self-righteous. Typical of the fallen man to cherry-pick from the Bible what they consider convenient & totally disregard anything that contradicts their opinions.
Well, SKEEEWWWWbrain, I think you are being true to your nickname, your thinking is a bit eskew. I don't know of anyone who believes in universal salvation through Jesus Christ that makes light of sin, that you can do whatever you want. We sow what we reap. And I do read the Bible and it tells me that Jesus is the savior of the whole world. Why don't you believe it? What good is reading the Bible if you don't believe it?
@tentmaker777 uh idk.."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" also " for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." and "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." ..idk maybe ur opinion is greater than God's reality.
What a loving, compassionate, and forgiving god, that he would send us unbelievers to hell! That's a real god's god!
If any man can actually believe that eternal torment is a righteous act, then those people have no moral compass or human decency in them! I wouldn't care if a hundred god's justified hell, it's still an evil thing to inflict on any sentient being!
Infinite torment for finite offence? What civilized men believe such superstition?
Sorry, but unless you can prove that Jesus is a liar, I can't believe you just bc universalism sounds convenient to the carnal man. Jesus said "narrow is the way that leads to life & FEW there be that find it." anti-Christian occult theology won't last forever.
@sKewbrain First off, never apoligize with a but after it and Yahushua is His real name. He never preached about hell, He preached about Judgment at Gehenne where children and babies were sacrificed in fire. What does God have to say about His children thrown in fire. Jer:7:31: And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, NEITHER CAME IT INTO MY HEART..
@SwordofManticorE Man is foolish, God is not. you can preach a feel-good message to ppl, causing chaos, confusion, destruction & lawlessness but the *fact* remains that God is Holy & we are saved by faith, not by works & not by force. Jesus said: "Ye are of your father, the Devil & the lusts of your father ye will do." We are alive in Christ or dead in self. Paganism, Lucifer-worship & self-righteousness don't save, only faith in Christ saves. Don't pervert what God has said.
@sKewbrain Who btw is lucifer? I hope you dont mean satan? This just goes to show how much you know about God's Word. Satan is a serpent, not a fallen angel. You pervert God's Word and accuse others of it. You are a hypocrite and a liar.
Prove jesus is a liar?? You can't even show evidence that he existed, and if he did, you certainly can't prove the supernatural claims for him.
And btw, I don't know if JC was lying, but he sure as hell was wrong when he prophecised his return which was for 2K yrs ago!! He didn't show. He said nothing about 2K yrs into the future, as if he could even imagine what it would be like at this time. He told his disciples they'd live to see his return...they didn't!
@tentmaker777 So you do admit that there is a Satan? Why then do you advocate false religion, Paganism & Lucifer-worship as it's not really a problem? Read the book of Luke chapters 12-13 & see what Jesus himself said outside of your opinion. You are under a deception. There is God's way & all other ways, so we are saved by divine accomplishment, not by religion. If you're gonna preach lawlessness & chaos, please don't do it in the name of a '''HOLY''' God.
I don't preach lawlessness and chaos. God's IS Holy. He is true and EVERYMAN is a liar. That includes you. The truth is: Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and He WILL draw all mankind to Himself whether you believe it or not. Oh, you of so little faith. Why do you doubt? Perhaps because the truth is not in you, religion is.
@tentmaker777 I would just like to add proof of salvation for all including the nonbelievers.
Rom 3:3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
Rom 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness (unbelifers), that He should be merciful to all.
These haters of the unbelievers believe that the first Adam is more powerful than the second Adam. They have no love for them, and he who have no love for his brother does not have God!
@tentmaker777 Religion is far from me. It's all the same. False systems that teach that wicked, sinful children of the Devil can save himself by his own works, his own rights & his own self-righteousness. The Bible is explicitly clear: "The whole world lays in the lap of the wicked one." It calls Satan the god of this world(cosmos) "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them that believe not." How can God have a personal relationship with us if he forces us to love him?
HELL IS MENTIONED 24 TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. 16 OF THOSE CAME FROM JESUS HIMSELF. It's not an early church doctrine IT'S A DOCTRINE JESUS TAUGHT. Hell was made for the devil, NOT HUMANS. Matt 25:41 He made us sin and must pay for it. Hell is real, It's eternal Mar 3:29, no prayers answered there Luk 16:27;misery and torment there Luk 16:24, 25 God doesn't want you to go there. ACCEPT HIS SON JESUS AND YOU BECOME HIS CHILD TOO Joh 1:12. Jesus died to keep believers out of hell. Mat 18:11
Man you don't know what you are talking about. HELL IS MENTIONED 24 TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. 16 OF THOSE CAME FROM JESUS HIMSELF. You don't know what you are talking about. You are religious but lost. You are not saved. You need to repent and get saved so you can teach with wisdom and knowledge. John 3 verse 13. Until you get saved you will not know what you are talking about.
Hell is a word of north english origin, of pagan origin, as the other words are all from hebrew/greek origin as the bible should be. The original word Jesus spoke, was "grave" or "hades" Hell and Hades are NOT the same thing. I know it's tough to hear this because of all the traditions you were raised upon. but don't worry, love God with all your heart, soul, passion, and wisdom, and live a righteous life. Everything is okay, in the name of Yeshua forever. Amen.
The question is, what exactly is hell. Most of the early church fathers believed in UR. 4 out of the first 5 theological schools taught it and it wasn't declared a heresy till almost 500 years after Christ. Why? Hell comes from 4 different words and NONE of them mean eternal hell in the original language. Hell, makes people more loving than God. Is that even possible? Even with UR, people will face judgment for their sins and JEsus is still the only way.
Actually, the correct doctrine of hell is based on eternal punishment, whether you'd like to call it hell or not.
The Greek word used for eternal is "aionion."
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Eternal punishment and eternal life. Context determines meaning. And please, stop painting God's justice as something that is mean and unfair. Consider your sin and realize what you deserve.
Aions are periods of time with beginnings and endings, and never had the connotation of "timelessness" nor "endlessness." Aionian life is "life of the eon," which in fact will come to an end at the consummation(1 Cor 15:26-28). Aionion life is given solely to God's elect. Aionian chastening is for everyone else. Aionion chastening will end, and eonian life will end, and after that, ALL will be given immortality(1 Cor 15:54), so no ones lives will end with the consummation of the eons.
Aions is eternal, It is actually translated into "beginning of the end" , A circle of time round and round with with the ending beginning and the beginning ending. To say Aion is not translated into eternal is also to deny Christ as Eternal, Life as Eternal, The Kingdom of God as Eternal and God's as Eternal. That translation you have is wrong, that's pseudo-factual opinion based. The manuscript translators new what they were doing when they translated Hebrew to Greek and Greek to English.
You talk about this word, but then you forget that the bible translated the word "torment" from the word "basanizo" which doesn't mean torment, it means to touch with a touchstone, as to make pure. Such as a blacksmith does to a sword. Gee. funny how the lake of fire is completely understandable after knowing that. How could you interpret eternal torture, from a second death? dying after dying is a double negative, meaning a positive. All men will be brought unto the truth of Christ.
your misrepresenting them. To those men who believe in Apokatastasis, they did believe in hell. But it was not eternal, it lasted for a great amount of time, and was very painful. They burned according to their sin, eventually though, they would be restored. That was Apokatastasis. So its not that they rejected Hell, surely God must punish the wicked, but Hell was not eternal.
The valley of gehenna was where the Babylonians sacrificed their child to the god baal. Jews would say "if you act like that youll end up like those that practice in gehenna" this was misinterpreted into the writings of the gosples unfortunately for the world. The Jews didnt even have a defined belief o n the after life at that time
Please, do not believe the ear-tickling of universalism. Jesus is not a liar, and He will be separating the sheep from the goats. Let the Bible speak for itself.
Luke 16:23 "And in Hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torment....." Luke 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: fear him which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you fear him! Universalism is heresy and no one should listen to it. Hell is real just as heaven is real. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life." You have a choice, choose wisely eternity is forever.
So, you're basically saying that, if you don't believe in Hell, that you'll end up there? So the stature of hell is higher than Jesus to you? Believing in the resurrection of Christ, believing that he is the way, the son of man, the god incarnate, isn't enough? Even if you believe these things and lived a righteous life, if you don't believe in hell, all these things are void? Give me a break. Do some studying in greek and hebrew and then we'll have a legitimate argument.
The translations are correct even through off a bit because they are in conjunction with God's word. God picked people who were in him to translate his word and to preach his Word. You either trust them are not. Also you go by doubt in reason, not by what the Bible teaches as a whole. If you read Romans, John, James, Titus, Ephesians etc they teach conditions for being saved, the Bible doesn't even have to mention a Hell because by the gospel you know it exist. You cloud your mind with reason..
@QuantumUni Use your head, what would God get out of frying someone in a literal Hell. Thats BS. If a literal Hell is real , why wasent Adam and Eve not warned about it. After all they got us into this mess.
I don't use my head but the holy spirit that dwells knowledge of God's Word within me. What does he get? seperation and sin removed from his holy presence.
@Vlaxerman343 because the wages of sin is death. Jesus DIED. He didn't 'burn in hell' for all eternity. If Jesus paid for our sins, then He had to "pay" for them. He did. He died. Through Jesus, we have "life". We have passed from "death" to "life". God "desires" that all men be saved.
Will God fail to accomplish, that which He desires? John 12:32, 1 Timothy 2:4, 4:10, 2 Peter 3:9, Romans 5:18, 1 Cor 15:22, Gen 12:3 (this is an awesome verse)
@Lightmane321 well then how can God be just? even in luke 2:21 christ is circumsized according to the law given to them by God showing how much he respects even his own law considering he is, well you know, the man that deemed what right and what waswrong for all eternity
@Vlaxerman343 Is God JUST if he forgives you, through Jesus? How about me? Would God be JUST if He forgives me, through Jesus?
I don't understand your question. Are you actually saying that if God "chooses" to save everyone, that somehow that means that He therefore ISN'T JUST???
if he wanted to save everyone he would've told us in scripture lik in Romans 3:19 it says "obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for it's purpose is to keep people from having excuses and that the entire world is guilty before God" (new living translation) and in hebrews 9:28 and 1 peter 2:2 how people eagerly await or, want, salvation but seeing how you mock people who pray to God for salvation and the idea that God doesn't judge then look at revelation 20:11-15
@Vlaxerman343 I do no such thing. Sorry. Salvation is ONLY through FAITH in Jesus. Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. MANY die unsaved. I do not deny this one bit.
But Jesus said that He WILL DRAW ALL MEN (John 12:32) and Paul said that He will SAVE ALL MEN (1 Timothy 2:4-6 & 4:10 & Romans 5:18 & many other passages as well.
@Vlaxerman343 I'm sure you meant 2 Peter, but I read chapter 3 of 1 Peter & 2 Peter. Just in case.
So what is it that we agree on? That Paul's words are "hard" to understand and that men of lawlessness twist? Or that God will destroy this present earth & there will be a new heavens & a new earth? Or that we should overcome evil with good & that we should love each other & care for each other?
Where did u get your Ph D. in etymology or comparative lingustics? You said in an earlier post that "basanizo" doesn't mean "torment" You r incorrect. "basanizo can mean torment, 2 vex with grievous pains, etc. "basanizo" has multiple meanings. The orginal word is "basanivzw". Get Thayer's Greek Lexicon. Also u assume a lot about someone's ability and u r bumptious in your thinking which is unbecoming from someone who claims 2 be a Christian & who proclaims love! Is that legitimate for u.
! 15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, [2] but on God, who has mercy.
So you see "HisWordisTruth", If God were sending people to hell, then he would NOT be just. Because if he made people to be evil and some not then it is up to GOD and GOD ALONE to save EVERYONE!
you sound like a calvinist, John 3 :16 , revelations 3:20 God initiates the pulling or calling(opening our eyes with the holy spirit) God gave us free will, we have a choice to choose do we stay on the broad road, or do we choose his narrow path. is there conditions to Gods saving grace, YES He stated what it was in the new testement. Those who believe in My son shall be saved, eternal life. Bible says those who believe are not condemed those who dont believe are already condemed john 3:18
I have never heard that one before. I am a Universalist Christian.
It is my contention that Jesus Christ will NOT fail (And did not fail) at the job that the Father has sent him out to do,.and that job is to Save 100% of humanity.
The Word of God says: it is the DESIRE of God that ALL men be saved.
The Word of God says: that Gods desire and will is ALWAYS carried out.
I do wish that was true, i really do, i dont want noone to go to hell. I dont want anyone to go through a eternity of torment, but the scriptures does not support this.matthew 25:46 and revelations 20:15, are pretty specific that there is a good place and a bad place. Jesus in my eyes did not fail, He sacrificed himself for all mankind, but its up to mankind to choose death or life. the parable of the lost sheep says and (IF) he finds it, meaning if you dont want to be found he will not find you
The fact that you WISH it were true says MUCH about your character. And I believe THAT is what is really important, as it pertains to the individual.
You don't know how many people ENJOY the idea of hell.
And that makes me sick to my stomach. Literally! I find the idea of loving a hell repulsive!
If you search enough you MAY find that there is enough proof to prove to your satisfaction that the hell ideology is a made up idea to scare and control men.
If you want to search further on the subject, this man Greg is GREAT from Tentmakers site.
L. Ray Smith from bible-truths(.)com is also AWESOME!
Frimmin(.)com is also a great site but is much more in depth in it's philosophy and may be better left for a later date. But the guy has a REAL handle on the Love of God!!
There are many Universal Christian sites out there and the numbers grow more all the time.
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to DESTRUCTION (Apollumi), and many there be which go in thereat" (Matt. 7:13).
Sounds bad for those who are going down that path doesnt it??
But WAIT!!!
Here comes another verse, let us see what this says, shall we?
"For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which was LOST (Apollumi)" (Matt. 18:11)!
HisWordisTruth, you amaze me with your articulate argument! You are right of course,..you have convinced me. I denounce my ways and kneel before your impeccable logic! (NOT!)
Why dont you use scripture to back up your claim that I am a BIG FOOL for not believing in a horrific Pagan hell ideology???? Instead of just lowering yourself to name calling? Wow,.what a good Christian you must be!!!
The concept of hell was "written" in the Bible; you are a liar and you are teaching a false teaching....do you wish to have all those who've *listened* to this BS on your conscience after they arrived in hell; FOREVER...you FOOL...STOP this lying video..you do NOT "know" God's True Word..HELL is very real and there is only ONE WAY to avoid it;.accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Savior...that's it..NO OTHER WAY...HELL IS VERY REAL.which "YOU" will find out very soon if you don't stop
If Hell is real and god plans to send the majority of humankind there to suffer unspeakable torment....and eternal at that, then god is a monster!!
Could, would. U? If your cjild rejected U, committed the worst possible crime, would U tie him up in the basement & torture him continually with a blow torch??? Could U do that to any human under the same circumstances?
Just because you hate hell doesnt stop it from exsisting... total nonscence... What you say? - you cant have hell because it up sets people? how sad...
if there is no punishment why are all people who dont accept Jesus are condemened?
why are unbelievers condemened what are they guilty of and what is their punishment
trying to refute eternal punishment wont make it go away.. no matter how hard you try...
I can assure U, if each of your questions R true, then your Xian god is a sadistic, evil creature!!
Y would god need to threaten ppl with torture to win them over??? It won't work! U can't love something U have to fear.
Boy, U zombies sure love that hell/suffering concept. don't U?
U all thrive on it. have U ever asked or pondered what kind of being would torture lesser beings 4 not believing in him, of all things? U just accept it without thought?
U think bcuz I found evidence that questions the reality of hell....that equates with Hate??
Who the fuck said that? it upsets ppl??
I've spent 5 years doing research & I was a Xian for over 50 years...not anymore. I found out what the church did with the NT! I knwo why hell is there and why it's pumped into the minds of anyone who eat that crap up.
U ain't talking to some hick. I know what I'm talking about.
@Cootabux one would have to start with your experience with God you know your personal relationship with God... if you say you were a christian... were you born again? did you receive the baptism of the holy spirit?
there are many things to look at man people say they are a christian, you should reveal how you became a christian first... your personal testimony.... if you dare..
one would have to start with your experience with God you know your personal relationship with God... if you say you were a christian... were you born again? did you receive the baptism of the holy spirit?
Yes, yes, & yes! But I never had a relationship with god bcuz he doesn't exist...not the ghost god u believe in.
I was baptized & confirmed Cath. & spent 8 yrs in a Cath. Elem. school.
When I got home from Vietnam I became Born Again. Sure, it all felt euphoric & all that.
@Cootabux so how can you say you were born again christian in one breath but then say God doesnt exsist.... I would say the problem lays with you at your end and not God,..
My learning process started in Nam. I saw prayers weren't answered. I researched prayer years later after I was born again. I watched as my friend's daughter died from Bone Cancer. She died a slow, agonizing death. That's when I started researching prayer. It simply doesn't work.
Several yrs ago, I started studying the Judeo-Christian religion 4 the 1st time. The common theme...Xian god = evil god. = man made! The errors & contradictions confirmed that.
@Cootabux what do you mean you researched prayers... are you saying you were looking for the right one... the silver bullet ... wow... God isnt found in a old stuffy set of prayer books...
just because people die doesnt mean that its all Gods fault... its typical when something bad happens its Gods fault... people always seem to blame God.. every small thing...
I hatted Saddam's tyranny also, & yes, it still existed! But then that's the point! if your Xian god were real, & lets thank him he's not, ha!, then we'd have something to really unite against.
You call hell punishment? Punishment is supposed to have some redemptive quality. Sending any sentient being to Hell would sadistically cruel & evil act, for only one reason...for the sole purpose of being vengeful...hateful. And for what, not belief? To use that as a reason is insanity.
Cootabux i can see that you have the wrong end of stick in regards to these things.. most non christians share the same view
I'm sure u do see that, although I question the accuracy & honesty of ur findings. That's bcuz I've heard it all B4 & the claims were empty.
I understand this very well, tho. Xians must find a way of denying credibility of Ex-Christian's experiences, & especially those reasons for deconverting.
Xians can't allow themselves to consider the "why" of it
And I got another news flash for u. People who would see eternal torment from this demon god u worship, have no human decency, if they've ever had any at all!
Punishment for being human, which to listen to your Creationist pals, is exactly how the war god Yahweh made us! But the fact is we have animal natures. As much as u may hate it, Evolution is a fact...we are all apes, you too! But we are told a lie we're cursed for Adam & Eve's sinning!!
Cootabux hi, so as an ape who came from evolution... your life was an accident. your life has no purpose..you live and you die..
That we are modern apes is a scientific fact. How life started, we aren't sure about, but that question doesn't give me reason to conclude a ghost-god was behind it!
My life has much purpose & I've lived a full & happy life so far. Yes, we all live & die. Whatever happens after that, who knows, but I'm sure it's not some angry judge. Life is precious
Prove it! Btw, do u know the origin of hell? Do u know why u won't read about hell in the OT, only in the New?
The bible is BS, and so is it's characters! Ever heard of the Ugaritic Texts? It's the key that unlocked the puzzle of the early Hebrew polytheistic Elohim. Check it out and discover how the Hebrews fabricated their Judaism from the Canaanite Pantheon!
Only a true devil would create a hell for humans who are supposedly condemned at birth! What a sick concept to sell ppl!
Jesus said His words were Spirit and they were life.... until God reveals what that truly means, one can't accept that there is no hell or 'eternal punishment".
These are hidden mysteries which only God can teach us, they can not be learned via seminary and intellectual study.
Pray what it means and ask God to reveal truth and dispel darkness... and you too will "see" these glorious truths are real!
Unfortunately, most 'Christian leaders" are very fleshly and blind spiritually.
Yahweh murdered men, women, and children, all so he could give the Hebrews their land of milk and honey! (Thats's the way they tell it). Yahweh was genocidal, advocated slavery, and was misogynistic. Yet, he wasn't as bad as jesus! Jesus was far more evil bcuz his trick was hell! There no worst, more evil thing a being could invent, than a hell to send his children!
damn, the bible sure is a slew of sick fairytales! U should be glad evil gods like these don't really exist.
Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the World; 1John.4:14. God is Love & Love never fails(1 John. 4:8 & 1Cor. 13:8). The Greek word "No'te translated none, never, no means there can't be anyone in a particular group. An example is at 2Peter. 3:9: " not willing that any should perish ". The Greek word Thelema(Thelo) means the strong form of word "Will", not merely a desire or wishfull thinking. Man has choices, but none of these choices are free. Every choice we make has a prior cause, no freewill
Revelation 21:8 (King James Version) 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Are you sure? Read Matthew Chapter 5 lately? You know, the sermon that condemns every single person on this planet. Which is why we need to believe in the real Jesus and not one that suits us.
He has something missing.. I remember hearing that the greatest trick the devil ever made to man-kind was convincing man-kind he never existed in the first place.. This guy just sounds like some anti-christ spreading ideas.. I think heaven and hell exist on Earth and in the mind.. maybe it takes others longer to get to heaven. i just think fate is real and everything happens for a reason. its just too out of this world to barely get a grasp on. if only you would pay attention to the right thing
@sixkiller111 We all know christianity prevailed over the US and it wasnt for 5 centureies Mr. US History over here.. more like a little over 200.. but yeah Christianity wasnt the same as it was in the beginning when they were more open minded and loved the mother father god and not just "GOD". Do you know the "right thing"?
Hey genius, I didn't say it prevailed just over the US, I'm talking about the Americas & yes, I said 500 yrs. From Columbus' landing, to present day, we've struggled against Christianity forcing it's way into our lives.
I remember stories of Mormons, for example, who would come onto Reservations in the S.West and took children away from their families.
I knew 2 sisters who this happened to. They were neg. affected by their experience. They never wanted to go
outside, into the sun. They did everything to make their skins white. This is the crap the Mormons indoctrinated them with.
2 yrs ago in Canada, there was a large scandal about a huge Xian church/boarding school who were involved in the deaths of a number of Indians over the past 50 yrs. It was found that they were killing them, then selling their land to the lumber company.
So yeah, I gotta thing about organized Christianity invading our country & playing out their vile parts!
If the OT god is real, I say he's evil bcuz he ordered the deaths of thousands of innocent women and children. He advocates slavery. He thinks less of women than men. And, if he also created a hell, then all these factors can only mean he's evil in my view.
Btw, if Universalism is heresy, why was it accepted by the early fathers of the church and was maintained for 500 years?
No one is innocent! No one is Righteous, no not even one. Read Romans 3. God is the Holy Righteous Just Judge of All The Earth.
Most people don't like to hear that anymore, they just want God to love them and forgive them while they run around dishonoring Him and sinning like crazy.
God does Love you. That is exactly why Jesus Christ came as a sinless sacrifice. However, you must repent of your sins and believe in Him to have eternal life.
It doesnt bother me in the least bcuz I had nothing 2 do with it. If I carry the sins of A & E, then it is unjustified 4 a number of reasons.
A & E were created perfect so how could they be tempted & sin. Y would god allow satan 2 tempt them? If god is Ominiscient, he knew what would happen & could have changed it. He certainly wouldnt find a good reason 2 strap the entire human race with "their" sin
I knew there was something wrong with O.Sin since I was 10 yrs old.
Dude, God never advocated slavery. The Bible mentions slavery and adds some laws concerning slavery because slavery actually existed.
Also, the slavery that the Bible mentions is not like American slavery fueled by racism.
The Bible never once says, it is a wonderful thing to beat and kill slaves because of their skin color. Matter of fact, Galatians 3:28 says that in Christ Jesus there is no race, gender, or distinction between slave and free, rather we are all one body.
If hell was created by god, & if it is eternal, then he, god, is evil incarnate.
There's no justification for committing terrorism & such horror on any sentient being, I don't care what he's done.
You cant intimidate people to "change" or to "be good." This has to come from the spirit growing or evolving, & U sure as hell can't do it in one short life. That's just absurd.
Hell has no purpose after the fact. It is only a sadistic tool. If tho, it is used to intimidate beforehand...
I like you Bonz! I love debating vertain kinds of ppl. I realllyyy wanna debate you!
U say it's Heresy? Prove it. Well, wait. I shouldn't use that word cuz I could say prove god exists, and U can't.
Let me say this. Have you ever wondered Y Hell isn't in the Torah? No where will U find it. Now wouldn't U expect god to warn us of the most important point of the bible? Yet we don't see any word that means "eternal torture." We don't see it until the NT & there's a lot to question there.
Yes, these "hell-believers" have nevere studied the early church. The endless torment concept, thanks to Augustine, has changed the face of christianity anf has allowed the church to control the masses. The money factor can't be overlooked either.
There will not be any evil people in that glorious future. Sinners will no longer be sinners, and the wicked will not remain wicked, for all will have been transformed. God will make all people new, for God made a promise saying "I make all things new" (Revelation 21:4-5).
The words Eternal,Forever & Everlasting never appeared in the Greek language until sometime in the second century, C.E. The Bible canon was already accepted by then. The Greek Noun Aion(Age),it's adjective Aionios(pertaining to the ages)was eventually mistranlated Eternal,Everlasting & Forever. Eternal came from the Latin(Eternus)Aionios never means endless, but has a beginning and ending. Punishment is from the Greek Kolasin and should be rendered chastisement; and it's aim is remedial.
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Have u lied? Have u stolen? Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery with her in your heart. have u done that?
If God judge’s u by the Ten Commandments will u be innocent or guilty? Heaven or Hell? Does this concern you?
Do u need a Savior from your sins?
Jesus (The Son of God)came, lived a sinless life, died on the cross (for our sins) and rose again on the third day.
needgod.com
if you are interested in abortion or thinking of having one watch 180 movie
standingontruth1 2 months ago in playlist Info - Universalism & Unitarism
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a lot people use the this to defend there view. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." To me this only means that since Jesus died for our sins. That hes is the to bridge to god. But it says nothing about if you have to believe in Jesus to use that bridge. If you truly believe that Jesus died for our sins. Then it was for the sins of all mankind. Not just a select group of people.
Tuber77 3 months ago
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HELL IS REAL. View my Channel to watch a video.
SupportFreedom1 8 months ago
In the last several years I have slowly moved away from the "eternal burning hell" view. I see it as something slowly developed by those wishing for a mind control tool or mechanism. To be blunt: it is a filthy and cowardly doctrine. There is so much against it that that any supporting the "hell" doctrine simply want it to be true. Romans 6:23, by itself, trumps anything put forth to support a burning hell doctrine. And 1 Corinthians 15:22 says that in Christ all are made alive.
DrStevenz 9 months ago
Thank you Gary. All the people I have known who love the hell idea, and hold it dear as the foundation of their faith, DO NOT EVER TAKE THE TIME TO SEARCH TO SEE WHAT the Scriptures have. They avoid concordances, ignore Paul's letters, and are just happy they have made up their minds. They don't care that a giant list of passages (put back in their contexts!) declare that there is a larger hope than "hell", & they have been duped by blasphemers who believe Christ and His cross FAILED.
heresydept 9 months ago
@heresydept Hey, the good news is that one day we will all know Him and ourselves as we truly are. Good news indeed!
tentmaker777 9 months ago
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STATaMelo 9 months ago
John 6:39And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.
What has God given His Son?
John 3:35The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.
SwordofManticorE 10 months ago
Ephesians 1v11 says the elect have received the inheritance in advance of the rest of creation. I don't think it's fruitful to insist salvation is depending on the gift of faith (2 Pet 1v1) beyond this world.
Endnuenfyr 11 months ago
Romans 11: ...'even so these also have now been disobedient, taht through the mercy shown you they also may abtain mery. For God has committed them ALLLLL to disobedience that He might have mercy upon all. Oh, the depth of the riches of both of the wisodm and knowledge of God. 1 Cor. 15:22-28 reveals a progression of the salvation of all mankind in groups. How can you LEARN to give mercy unless God gives you enemies on which to pour His mercy? He hardens and He makes alive. Be grateful, not ven
tentmaker777 11 months ago 2
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@peterpulpitpounder Basanos as in Rev 18v10. So what do you make of that? God's ways are tough love, but to remove the final restoration of all things by the potter is actually an attack on that Word of God which refuses to fit into any neat package. Calvin had the basics right, but he rejected what Romans 8-11 actually teaches about God's sovereign will for mankind.
Endnuenfyr 11 months ago
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Endnuenfyr 11 months ago
@MrFundieKiller
Well I certainly understand your continued searching and also coming to the end of religion. That's not a bad place to be, but it ultimately becomes hopeless and depressing. And it's not the truth. I've been without religion as an atheist. I've been in religion, it stinks. But then there is the reality of meeting your Maker. THAT, will give you love joy and peace you've never dreamed of, but i can't give that to you by information, it comes another way.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@MrFundieKiller
God in the head is simply our concept of Him, whether we call our selves deists or some religion. Concepts of God we invent through our studying is simply information. But when God connects with you, and reveals Himself to you, then that's something different. And one can't give that to another person. Each person has to experience this connection. Deists live in their own beliefs. Connecting is something different and hard to explain to someone who is in their own beliefs.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
When was an atheist, I said the same thing. I went to the O.T. to show my wife, who had just become a Christian, that her religions was insane. I would read those O.T. passages to her and tell her she was NOT going to pervert our children with those kinds of evil thoughts. Then on Valentine's day 1985, Jesus came into my being and healed me of alcoholism and completely turned my life upsidedown. Gave me new eyes and now I things in the O.T. in a new light, can't explain that is posts like this.
tentmaker777 11 months ago 4
Well, I've met many people who have been deeply touched and lives transformed by this Jesus of Nazareth but I've never met one changed by Enlil and Enki, nor ancient Egyptian gods. I've read the books that say Christianity is but a reinvention of ancient pagan myths. I've read the myths and read the books of those who believe Christianity is a reinvention. The myths never did a thing for me..but this Jesus character transformed my life. In me, He is not a myth, He is my life.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
Thayer comments on basanos, explaining the term to first refer to a black stone used to test the purity of gold or silver, and then to a rack or instrument of torture used to force someone into devulging the truth, to the pain of disease, and then to the torment of eternal condemnation.
It clearly came to refer to pain, vexation and torment.
peterpulpitpounder 11 months ago
YES, the rack came MUCH later, when the Church turned dark and sinister and TORTURED people through exquisite means. The Church has turned many good words into evil. They changed this word, they inserted words like damned that completely changed the nature and character of God. The injects all manners of wickedness into the Scriptures and now more and more translations are removing this filth. The origins of this word has to do with testing, evaluating, bringing to the bottom of things, NOT tor
tentmaker777 11 months ago
Hi Gary. I've read through all the comments here. I find them fascinating.
The fact that some christians still believe in a literal eternal hell astounds me, and the fact that they think this is a "just" punishment totally astounds me.
God loves us all, but if we don't believe, we'll burn in hell forever.
I'm sorry, but if that's true then God doesn't love us. He hates us. Passionately.
If hell is literal & eternal, then God is evil.
Hell is a myth. The bible NEVER mentions it. Simple
Lightmane321 1 year ago
You're right, the original languages of the Bible never mentions Hell, but it does mention the Cross of Christ. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will drag (literally drag in Greek) all mankind unto Myself. This he spoke signifying what manner of death He should die." John 12:32, 33 Let's lift Him up in praise, for He is worthy. There is nothing about Hell that is worthy. It's a terrible stain on His character and work on the cross.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
The LOF has been "prepared" for the wicked, just as the kingdom has been prepared for the righteous. Both are literal places, the one of damnation, the other of eternal glory (Mat. 25). "All" in John 12:32 means "all manner" of men (Jew & Gentile, not to literally every soul who ever lived.
Do you homework.
peterpulpitpounder 11 months ago
But this lake of fire in a "divine fire." Brimstone is the word theeion a derivative of theos. Brimstone was used to heal, to prevent disease, to purify temples. Everyone will be salted with fire. YOU, pulpitpounder will discover you ain't holy yet and will need a little dose (maybe a big dose) of holy fire to cleanse you of your self-righteousness and pride. And "all" in John 12:32 means ALLLLL. You want to diminish that because you have evil in your heart.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777
There is absolutely NOTHING in the Biblical text, contextually or otherwise, which warrants a positive interpretation of the the Lake of Fire. Your thinking has been poisoned by garbage commentary. And does "all" in John 8:2 mean every last person in Jerusalem? How about John 4:29? It's quite obvious Jesus did not address every last act and action this woman peformed in her lifetime. All in John 12:32 refers to both Jews and Gentiles, that is, to all manner of men.
peterpulpitpounder 11 months ago
Well pulpit thumper that is because you are locked up in fear and preach fear. So you have the eyes of a Pharisee, you're blind. But when the love of God is shed in your heart, you will see things unimaginable to a religious mind. Go watch tested in the lake of fire on the tentmaker777 channel. See how grossly mistranslated the Greek word basanos has been in most popular Bible translations.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777
Nope. Wrong. Plenty of hope and mercy in the message I preach, but, unlike yourself, I'm not imbalanced nor drunk on the love of God so as to neglect the whole counsel of God when it comes to the matter and reality of condemnation. And when it comes to the use of basanos, especially in revelation, the meaning is that of judgment not purification or rehab. Matthew 8:6 is another example where it means "tormented" or "vexed," not purified or tested. The context is clear.
peterpulpitpounder 11 months ago
pounder, is basanos as touchstone or isn't it? Have you ever burned someone alive with a touchstone? I have one and never hurt a flee with one. The Jesus of the Bible doesn't "balance" His love with torturing people alive forever. "You've heard is said an eye for an eye..." but I tell you to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." That's the Jesus of the bible, not the torturer you subscribe to.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
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PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION IF IT IS A YES.
DID YOU FIGURE THIS OUT AFTER YOU HAD BEEN FRUSTRATED WITH TRADITIONS OF MAN AND THE INCONSISTENCY OF THEIR DOCTRINE?
DID Matthew 7:7 JUST LITERALLY JUMP OF THE PAGE FOR YALL?
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
If there was a torment place of hell why wouldn't it be in the OT? The only word that has sometimes been translated as hell is the word "sheol" and by definition it means "grave", which where everyone went. jews, gentiles, evil, people, good people.
I guess everyone is frying!!!
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
And if they don't literally say "hell" but say . eg. Hades or Gehenna or Sheol, why is that necessarily better or more indicative of universalism?
orlando098 1 year ago
@orlando098
You are asking questions that require more space to answer than the short space given here. Visit tentmaker which is an org and go to Scholars Corner section or FAQ. All your questions are answered thoroughly there.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
OK, thanks - and if I still have questions, do you have your own forum, or can I email you?
orlando098 1 year ago
@orlando098
There is a large forum on the tentmaker site with a lot of folks there that answer questions all day long.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
ok, great
orlando098 1 year ago
@orlando098
Because then you have to define these Hebrew and Greek words. When you do that you begin to see they are different from each other and the Hebrews did NOT have the idea of a place of everlasting tortures behind them. Then you see the traditional ideas of the afterlife came from non-hebrew sources. Hell, for example, is a Teutonic word, not a Hebrew or Greek word. It's mythological.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
Also, the fact that some Bible translations do not mention hell or eternal punishment is not an argument in itself - more relevant is are these ones better translations, and who says so?
orlando098 1 year ago
@orlando098
You are asking questions that require more space to answer than the short space given here. Visit tentmaker which is an org and go to Scholars Corner section or FAQ. All your questions are answered thoroughly there.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
And there are a number of other places where he is depicted as referring to judgment, or to few being saved etc - why would he have made a big deal of it? If he was a universalist, was he saying, yes there is suffering after death for some people and you should really try to avoid it, but even so it does not last forever?
orlando098 1 year ago
How do you account for the mention of eternal punishment in the sheep and goats passage, or why is Jesus depicted making such an extreme comment as it being better to cut of a hand or cut out your eye than to go into hell, if he did not think it existed and was terrible?
orlando098 1 year ago
@orlando098
You are asking questions that require more space to answer than the short space given here. Visit tentmaker which is an org and go to Scholars Corner section or FAQ. All your questions are answered thoroughly there.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@orlando098 Its quite simple. How did those sheep escape the punishment of he'll according to that passage? By their good works right? Right, and if you look at the other parables either before or after are all about "works" its inconceivable to say that Christ was telling his disciples that they could go to hell by not having"good works".
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
i agree with most of this, except for when he said "pagans taught eternal torment". this is a very general statement and can be taken the wrong way. most pagans (a very VERY broad term) around the world taught of periods of torment, similar to periods of torment everyone experience here on earth, except taking place in a spiritual realm. many pagans who dealt with "eternity" taught annihilation or reincarnation and nirvana.
ScaryKid1015 1 year ago
@ScaryKid1015
Yes, I admit I, and most Christians probably misuse the term pagan.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
I thought the spread of atheism was damning, but universalism is a blatant deception. Imaging telling ppl: "there is no sin. if you don't get caught, it's not a crime. do as thy wilt." that's the most satanic chaotic message man can teach to a fallen world, but to do it in the name of Christ, calling him a liar is a massive abomination. Stop listening to these satanic feel-good messages and READ THE BIBLE, PEOPLE!!!
God gives us no leverage to be naive & gullible to satanic temptations!!!
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@sKewbrain
Oh, there is sin all right. Calling Jesus the worst failure on the planet is a BIG SIN and you should be ashamed of yourself. The Bible calls Him the "Savior of the world." I'll believe that and stand against your blasphemous lies about the lamb who takes away the SIN OF THE WORLD. :-)
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 "you should be ashamed of yourself" yes, I am & you know why I'm ashamed? because I'm willfully sinful before a Holy God & there is nothing I can do redeem myself: no religion, no ritual, no works... nothing! Self-righteousness doesn't save. Only Jesus, the one and ONLY Christ can save. "I am the way, the truth and the life: NO ONE comes to the Father, but by ME" If works can save, why did Jesus ever bother to warn us of false prophets & satanic deceptions?
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@sKewbrain
I am not ashamed of myself because Jesus delivered me from shame and condemnation. Obviously you are still in it. You admit it is grace and only grace that saves and yet you have the audacity to deny that grace can save everyone. You limit the power of God's grace. Now that IS something to be ashamed of. :-)
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 "I am not ashamed of myself" If you think self-righteousness can ever be a good thing, you should read what Jesus said about the Pharisees.
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@sKewbrain
skewbrain, you said self-righteousness is NOT a good thing. Precisely the point. That you should consider yourself a candidate for heaven while consigning most of mankind to rot in a hell is the epitome of self-righteousness. Why are you so blind that you cannot see that?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I'm not God so I don't make the rules. The Bible is clear that the entire world is under the deception. You're the one saying you have no shame. You are a willful sinner just like everybody else so you have no place to be self-righteous. Typical of the fallen man to cherry-pick from the Bible what they consider convenient & totally disregard anything that contradicts their opinions.
sKewbrain 1 year ago
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Cootabux 1 year ago
@sKewbrain
Well, SKEEEWWWWbrain, I think you are being true to your nickname, your thinking is a bit eskew. I don't know of anyone who believes in universal salvation through Jesus Christ that makes light of sin, that you can do whatever you want. We sow what we reap. And I do read the Bible and it tells me that Jesus is the savior of the whole world. Why don't you believe it? What good is reading the Bible if you don't believe it?
tentmaker777 1 year ago 5
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@tentmaker777 uh idk.."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" also " for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." and "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." ..idk maybe ur opinion is greater than God's reality.
sKewbrain 1 year ago
sKewbrain
What a loving, compassionate, and forgiving god, that he would send us unbelievers to hell! That's a real god's god!
If any man can actually believe that eternal torment is a righteous act, then those people have no moral compass or human decency in them! I wouldn't care if a hundred god's justified hell, it's still an evil thing to inflict on any sentient being!
Infinite torment for finite offence? What civilized men believe such superstition?
Cootabux 1 year ago
Jesus preached an entire sermon about Hell to the biggest crowd he ever preached to.
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@sKewbrain Prove it.
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@SwordofManticorE Luke 12 & 13
Sorry, but unless you can prove that Jesus is a liar, I can't believe you just bc universalism sounds convenient to the carnal man. Jesus said "narrow is the way that leads to life & FEW there be that find it." anti-Christian occult theology won't last forever.
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@sKewbrain First off, never apoligize with a but after it and Yahushua is His real name. He never preached about hell, He preached about Judgment at Gehenne where children and babies were sacrificed in fire. What does God have to say about His children thrown in fire. Jer:7:31: And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, NEITHER CAME IT INTO MY HEART..
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@SwordofManticorE Man is foolish, God is not. you can preach a feel-good message to ppl, causing chaos, confusion, destruction & lawlessness but the *fact* remains that God is Holy & we are saved by faith, not by works & not by force. Jesus said: "Ye are of your father, the Devil & the lusts of your father ye will do." We are alive in Christ or dead in self. Paganism, Lucifer-worship & self-righteousness don't save, only faith in Christ saves. Don't pervert what God has said.
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@sKewbrain Who btw is lucifer? I hope you dont mean satan? This just goes to show how much you know about God's Word. Satan is a serpent, not a fallen angel. You pervert God's Word and accuse others of it. You are a hypocrite and a liar.
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
sKewbrain
Prove jesus is a liar?? You can't even show evidence that he existed, and if he did, you certainly can't prove the supernatural claims for him.
And btw, I don't know if JC was lying, but he sure as hell was wrong when he prophecised his return which was for 2K yrs ago!! He didn't show. He said nothing about 2K yrs into the future, as if he could even imagine what it would be like at this time. He told his disciples they'd live to see his return...they didn't!
JC's message was for Jews!
Cootabux 1 year ago
@sKewbrain
No He didn't. Why do you lie so much? Is it because the father of lies still has his hook in you?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 So you do admit that there is a Satan? Why then do you advocate false religion, Paganism & Lucifer-worship as it's not really a problem? Read the book of Luke chapters 12-13 & see what Jesus himself said outside of your opinion. You are under a deception. There is God's way & all other ways, so we are saved by divine accomplishment, not by religion. If you're gonna preach lawlessness & chaos, please don't do it in the name of a '''HOLY''' God.
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@sKewbrain
I don't preach lawlessness and chaos. God's IS Holy. He is true and EVERYMAN is a liar. That includes you. The truth is: Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and He WILL draw all mankind to Himself whether you believe it or not. Oh, you of so little faith. Why do you doubt? Perhaps because the truth is not in you, religion is.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I would just like to add proof of salvation for all including the nonbelievers.
Rom 3:3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
Rom 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness (unbelifers), that He should be merciful to all.
These haters of the unbelievers believe that the first Adam is more powerful than the second Adam. They have no love for them, and he who have no love for his brother does not have God!
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Religion is far from me. It's all the same. False systems that teach that wicked, sinful children of the Devil can save himself by his own works, his own rights & his own self-righteousness. The Bible is explicitly clear: "The whole world lays in the lap of the wicked one." It calls Satan the god of this world(cosmos) "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them that believe not." How can God have a personal relationship with us if he forces us to love him?
sKewbrain 1 year ago
@ofreshartist2 "this age, or the age to come" speaks only of the age when Jesus spoke it, and the next one after that. It does not imply eternity.
sailing19100 1 year ago
People also read this easy reading free book: tentmaker#org/books/Prevailing.html
Lots of quotes from our church fathers in the first 3 centuries after Christ.
All, yes ALL, believed in universal salvation.
Forum: tentmaker#org/forum/index.php
Books proving UR: tentmaker#org/ScholarsCorner.html
#=.
YOUTUBBIE777 1 year ago
A very intriguing and informative video. The idea has much merit and seems to fit best with the concept of a perfectly just and merciful God.
Pacisdiligo 1 year ago 2
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Pacisdiligo 1 year ago
@ofreshartist2. 1 Peter 3:19 - So he went and preached to the spirits in prison. They will be forgiven, once they accept Christ in the Spirit Prison.
AaronLewsey 1 year ago
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AaronLewsey 1 year ago
The only overt confession of universalism in the entire of scripture is in Genesis.
It goes like this......
"Surely you will not die"
That says all that has to be said.
ageofgrace 1 year ago
HELL IS MENTIONED 24 TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. 16 OF THOSE CAME FROM JESUS HIMSELF. It's not an early church doctrine IT'S A DOCTRINE JESUS TAUGHT. Hell was made for the devil, NOT HUMANS. Matt 25:41 He made us sin and must pay for it. Hell is real, It's eternal Mar 3:29, no prayers answered there Luk 16:27;misery and torment there Luk 16:24, 25 God doesn't want you to go there. ACCEPT HIS SON JESUS AND YOU BECOME HIS CHILD TOO Joh 1:12. Jesus died to keep believers out of hell. Mat 18:11
Melmando 2 years ago
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judaemic 1 year ago
Man you don't know what you are talking about. HELL IS MENTIONED 24 TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. 16 OF THOSE CAME FROM JESUS HIMSELF. You don't know what you are talking about. You are religious but lost. You are not saved. You need to repent and get saved so you can teach with wisdom and knowledge. John 3 verse 13. Until you get saved you will not know what you are talking about.
Melmando 2 years ago
Hell is a word of north english origin, of pagan origin, as the other words are all from hebrew/greek origin as the bible should be. The original word Jesus spoke, was "grave" or "hades" Hell and Hades are NOT the same thing. I know it's tough to hear this because of all the traditions you were raised upon. but don't worry, love God with all your heart, soul, passion, and wisdom, and live a righteous life. Everything is okay, in the name of Yeshua forever. Amen.
MarkToTheSky 2 years ago 4
The question is, what exactly is hell. Most of the early church fathers believed in UR. 4 out of the first 5 theological schools taught it and it wasn't declared a heresy till almost 500 years after Christ. Why? Hell comes from 4 different words and NONE of them mean eternal hell in the original language. Hell, makes people more loving than God. Is that even possible? Even with UR, people will face judgment for their sins and JEsus is still the only way.
hmwallace 2 years ago
Actually, the correct doctrine of hell is based on eternal punishment, whether you'd like to call it hell or not.
The Greek word used for eternal is "aionion."
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Eternal punishment and eternal life. Context determines meaning. And please, stop painting God's justice as something that is mean and unfair. Consider your sin and realize what you deserve.
Rapgeezer 2 years ago
Aions are periods of time with beginnings and endings, and never had the connotation of "timelessness" nor "endlessness." Aionian life is "life of the eon," which in fact will come to an end at the consummation(1 Cor 15:26-28). Aionion life is given solely to God's elect. Aionian chastening is for everyone else. Aionion chastening will end, and eonian life will end, and after that, ALL will be given immortality(1 Cor 15:54), so no ones lives will end with the consummation of the eons.
RUABerean 2 years ago 2
Aions is eternal, It is actually translated into "beginning of the end" , A circle of time round and round with with the ending beginning and the beginning ending. To say Aion is not translated into eternal is also to deny Christ as Eternal, Life as Eternal, The Kingdom of God as Eternal and God's as Eternal. That translation you have is wrong, that's pseudo-factual opinion based. The manuscript translators new what they were doing when they translated Hebrew to Greek and Greek to English.
QuantumUni 2 years ago
You talk about this word, but then you forget that the bible translated the word "torment" from the word "basanizo" which doesn't mean torment, it means to touch with a touchstone, as to make pure. Such as a blacksmith does to a sword. Gee. funny how the lake of fire is completely understandable after knowing that. How could you interpret eternal torture, from a second death? dying after dying is a double negative, meaning a positive. All men will be brought unto the truth of Christ.
MarkToTheSky 2 years ago 4
your misrepresenting them. To those men who believe in Apokatastasis, they did believe in hell. But it was not eternal, it lasted for a great amount of time, and was very painful. They burned according to their sin, eventually though, they would be restored. That was Apokatastasis. So its not that they rejected Hell, surely God must punish the wicked, but Hell was not eternal.
AbdielAbiram 2 years ago
Gehenna, hades, sheol and tartarus can't all translate into hell.
So why did they replace those words with one?
I'll pass on that King James version.
serbryder 2 years ago 5
The valley of gehenna was where the Babylonians sacrificed their child to the god baal. Jews would say "if you act like that youll end up like those that practice in gehenna" this was misinterpreted into the writings of the gosples unfortunately for the world. The Jews didnt even have a defined belief o n the after life at that time
peterthesongman 2 years ago
Please, do not believe the ear-tickling of universalism. Jesus is not a liar, and He will be separating the sheep from the goats. Let the Bible speak for itself.
Rapgeezer 2 years ago
Just make sure you understand what you read, i know Tentmaker777 does.
thegrudgegit 2 years ago
Luke 16:23 "And in Hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torment....." Luke 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: fear him which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you fear him! Universalism is heresy and no one should listen to it. Hell is real just as heaven is real. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life." You have a choice, choose wisely eternity is forever.
Hell is Real.........
truth0fsalvation 2 years ago
So, you're basically saying that, if you don't believe in Hell, that you'll end up there? So the stature of hell is higher than Jesus to you? Believing in the resurrection of Christ, believing that he is the way, the son of man, the god incarnate, isn't enough? Even if you believe these things and lived a righteous life, if you don't believe in hell, all these things are void? Give me a break. Do some studying in greek and hebrew and then we'll have a legitimate argument.
MarkToTheSky 2 years ago 3
The translations are correct even through off a bit because they are in conjunction with God's word. God picked people who were in him to translate his word and to preach his Word. You either trust them are not. Also you go by doubt in reason, not by what the Bible teaches as a whole. If you read Romans, John, James, Titus, Ephesians etc they teach conditions for being saved, the Bible doesn't even have to mention a Hell because by the gospel you know it exist. You cloud your mind with reason..
QuantumUni 2 years ago
@QuantumUni Use your head, what would God get out of frying someone in a literal Hell. Thats BS. If a literal Hell is real , why wasent Adam and Eve not warned about it. After all they got us into this mess.
ZARKO7871 2 years ago 5
I don't use my head but the holy spirit that dwells knowledge of God's Word within me. What does he get? seperation and sin removed from his holy presence.
QuantumUni 2 years ago
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judaemic 1 year ago
@ZARKO7871 then why would God have Christ die on the cross just none may come unto the father but by me
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 because the wages of sin is death. Jesus DIED. He didn't 'burn in hell' for all eternity. If Jesus paid for our sins, then He had to "pay" for them. He did. He died. Through Jesus, we have "life". We have passed from "death" to "life". God "desires" that all men be saved.
Will God fail to accomplish, that which He desires? John 12:32, 1 Timothy 2:4, 4:10, 2 Peter 3:9, Romans 5:18, 1 Cor 15:22, Gen 12:3 (this is an awesome verse)
There's MANY more.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 well then how can God be just? even in luke 2:21 christ is circumsized according to the law given to them by God showing how much he respects even his own law considering he is, well you know, the man that deemed what right and what waswrong for all eternity
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 Is God JUST if he forgives you, through Jesus? How about me? Would God be JUST if He forgives me, through Jesus?
I don't understand your question. Are you actually saying that if God "chooses" to save everyone, that somehow that means that He therefore ISN'T JUST???
Lightmane321 1 year ago
if he wanted to save everyone he would've told us in scripture lik in Romans 3:19 it says "obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for it's purpose is to keep people from having excuses and that the entire world is guilty before God" (new living translation) and in hebrews 9:28 and 1 peter 2:2 how people eagerly await or, want, salvation but seeing how you mock people who pray to God for salvation and the idea that God doesn't judge then look at revelation 20:11-15
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 I do no such thing. Sorry. Salvation is ONLY through FAITH in Jesus. Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. MANY die unsaved. I do not deny this one bit.
But Jesus said that He WILL DRAW ALL MEN (John 12:32) and Paul said that He will SAVE ALL MEN (1 Timothy 2:4-6 & 4:10 & Romans 5:18 & many other passages as well.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 I think I have found something we can agree upon in peter chapter 3 please read it all
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 I'm sure you meant 2 Peter, but I read chapter 3 of 1 Peter & 2 Peter. Just in case.
So what is it that we agree on? That Paul's words are "hard" to understand and that men of lawlessness twist? Or that God will destroy this present earth & there will be a new heavens & a new earth? Or that we should overcome evil with good & that we should love each other & care for each other?
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 woops I probably did mean 2 peter
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@ZARKO7871
No, use your Bible. Leanign on the crutch of human resoning leads to doctrine perversion and error.
peterpulpitpounder 11 months ago
Where did u get your Ph D. in etymology or comparative lingustics? You said in an earlier post that "basanizo" doesn't mean "torment" You r incorrect. "basanizo can mean torment, 2 vex with grievous pains, etc. "basanizo" has multiple meanings. The orginal word is "basanivzw". Get Thayer's Greek Lexicon. Also u assume a lot about someone's ability and u r bumptious in your thinking which is unbecoming from someone who claims 2 be a Christian & who proclaims love! Is that legitimate for u.
MrShotgunhunter 2 years ago
@truth0fsalvation Universalists do not deny that hell exists! It is the nature of chastisement/punishment that they describe.
sailing19100 1 year ago
Sorry his name is Gary not Greg.
For some reason I always do that with his name.
My bad.
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
! 15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, [2] but on God, who has mercy.
So you see "HisWordisTruth", If God were sending people to hell, then he would NOT be just. Because if he made people to be evil and some not then it is up to GOD and GOD ALONE to save EVERYONE!
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
you sound like a calvinist, John 3 :16 , revelations 3:20 God initiates the pulling or calling(opening our eyes with the holy spirit) God gave us free will, we have a choice to choose do we stay on the broad road, or do we choose his narrow path. is there conditions to Gods saving grace, YES He stated what it was in the new testement. Those who believe in My son shall be saved, eternal life. Bible says those who believe are not condemed those who dont believe are already condemed john 3:18
Acerrak 2 years ago
I have never heard that one before. I am a Universalist Christian.
It is my contention that Jesus Christ will NOT fail (And did not fail) at the job that the Father has sent him out to do,.and that job is to Save 100% of humanity.
The Word of God says: it is the DESIRE of God that ALL men be saved.
The Word of God says: that Gods desire and will is ALWAYS carried out.
Therefore, ALL of mankind WILL be saved.
It is that simple and easy.
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago 2
I do wish that was true, i really do, i dont want noone to go to hell. I dont want anyone to go through a eternity of torment, but the scriptures does not support this.matthew 25:46 and revelations 20:15, are pretty specific that there is a good place and a bad place. Jesus in my eyes did not fail, He sacrificed himself for all mankind, but its up to mankind to choose death or life. the parable of the lost sheep says and (IF) he finds it, meaning if you dont want to be found he will not find you
Acerrak 2 years ago
The fact that you WISH it were true says MUCH about your character. And I believe THAT is what is really important, as it pertains to the individual.
You don't know how many people ENJOY the idea of hell.
And that makes me sick to my stomach. Literally! I find the idea of loving a hell repulsive!
If you search enough you MAY find that there is enough proof to prove to your satisfaction that the hell ideology is a made up idea to scare and control men.
It takes much time and effort though.
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
Life is very hard. Men can be very evil. Systems are put in place to keep you from the truth.
This is the war that is waging here on earth.
This is the REAL war, that God speaks of.
What ideology could possibly be more Evil than to assert that God,...our loving Father would torture young and old in fire for all of eternity?!
Who but Satan would assert that to begin with?
The very notion of hell goes against all aspects of God.
These are the questions that we as humans must ask ourselves.
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago 3
If I read the Word of God to you for the first time, I could read it in such a way as to make is sound to say almost ANYTHING!
These are the lies that our fathers have had fed to them by lying men.
We must ALL start new in his Word!
And study for ourselves to KNOW as much as ANY human can that what we believe is the truth.
BUT,...to do this, we must do at least ONE thing.
We must go back to the original language and see what the words really mean.
If we do not, we are LOST.
God Bless you.
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago 2
If you want to search further on the subject, this man Greg is GREAT from Tentmakers site.
L. Ray Smith from bible-truths(.)com is also AWESOME!
Frimmin(.)com is also a great site but is much more in depth in it's philosophy and may be better left for a later date. But the guy has a REAL handle on the Love of God!!
There are many Universal Christian sites out there and the numbers grow more all the time.
I will pray that the truth finds us both!
Peace.
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
Did Jesus come to SAVE all those who enter the broad gate to "destruction?" WHY YES,.YES HE DID!
The Greek word for DESTRUCTION is the EXACT SAME word that the (Miss) Translators used in Matt. 18:11 when they translated it INTO English as LOST!
So you see, those that go the broad way to Apollumi, are going to get saved by Jesus who came to SAVE THOSE who were Apollumi!
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to DESTRUCTION (Apollumi), and many there be which go in thereat" (Matt. 7:13).
Sounds bad for those who are going down that path doesnt it??
But WAIT!!!
Here comes another verse, let us see what this says, shall we?
"For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which was LOST (Apollumi)" (Matt. 18:11)!
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
HisWordisTruth, you amaze me with your articulate argument! You are right of course,..you have convinced me. I denounce my ways and kneel before your impeccable logic! (NOT!)
Why dont you use scripture to back up your claim that I am a BIG FOOL for not believing in a horrific Pagan hell ideology???? Instead of just lowering yourself to name calling? Wow,.what a good Christian you must be!!!
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
The concept of hell was "written" in the Bible; you are a liar and you are teaching a false teaching....do you wish to have all those who've *listened* to this BS on your conscience after they arrived in hell; FOREVER...you FOOL...STOP this lying video..you do NOT "know" God's True Word..HELL is very real and there is only ONE WAY to avoid it;.accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Savior...that's it..NO OTHER WAY...HELL IS VERY REAL.which "YOU" will find out very soon if you don't stop
HisWordisTruth 2 years ago
His
Hold on a fuckin minute!
Oh, U know what U R talking about but I don't
If Hell is real and god plans to send the majority of humankind there to suffer unspeakable torment....and eternal at that, then god is a monster!!
Could, would. U? If your cjild rejected U, committed the worst possible crime, would U tie him up in the basement & torture him continually with a blow torch??? Could U do that to any human under the same circumstances?
Oh, I must start preaching your version of hell?
Cootabux 2 years ago
Just because you hate hell doesnt stop it from exsisting... total nonscence... What you say? - you cant have hell because it up sets people? how sad...
if there is no punishment why are all people who dont accept Jesus are condemened?
why are unbelievers condemened what are they guilty of and what is their punishment
trying to refute eternal punishment wont make it go away.. no matter how hard you try...
loudmouthspeaker 2 years ago
loud...
I can assure U, if each of your questions R true, then your Xian god is a sadistic, evil creature!!
Y would god need to threaten ppl with torture to win them over??? It won't work! U can't love something U have to fear.
Boy, U zombies sure love that hell/suffering concept. don't U?
U all thrive on it. have U ever asked or pondered what kind of being would torture lesser beings 4 not believing in him, of all things? U just accept it without thought?
Ok, is the bible true? Prove it.
Cootabux 2 years ago
loud..
And where do U all get this hate shit from??
U think bcuz I found evidence that questions the reality of hell....that equates with Hate??
Who the fuck said that? it upsets ppl??
I've spent 5 years doing research & I was a Xian for over 50 years...not anymore. I found out what the church did with the NT! I knwo why hell is there and why it's pumped into the minds of anyone who eat that crap up.
U ain't talking to some hick. I know what I'm talking about.
U say I'm wrong? Prove it!
Cootabux 2 years ago
@Cootabux one would have to start with your experience with God you know your personal relationship with God... if you say you were a christian... were you born again? did you receive the baptism of the holy spirit?
there are many things to look at man people say they are a christian, you should reveal how you became a christian first... your personal testimony.... if you dare..
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
loudmouthspeaker
one would have to start with your experience with God you know your personal relationship with God... if you say you were a christian... were you born again? did you receive the baptism of the holy spirit?
Yes, yes, & yes! But I never had a relationship with god bcuz he doesn't exist...not the ghost god u believe in.
I was baptized & confirmed Cath. & spent 8 yrs in a Cath. Elem. school.
When I got home from Vietnam I became Born Again. Sure, it all felt euphoric & all that.
Cootabux 1 year ago
@Cootabux so how can you say you were born again christian in one breath but then say God doesnt exsist.... I would say the problem lays with you at your end and not God,..
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
loudmouthspeaker
My learning process started in Nam. I saw prayers weren't answered. I researched prayer years later after I was born again. I watched as my friend's daughter died from Bone Cancer. She died a slow, agonizing death. That's when I started researching prayer. It simply doesn't work.
Several yrs ago, I started studying the Judeo-Christian religion 4 the 1st time. The common theme...Xian god = evil god. = man made! The errors & contradictions confirmed that.
I even feel cleaner now.
Cootabux 1 year ago
@Cootabux what do you mean you researched prayers... are you saying you were looking for the right one... the silver bullet ... wow... God isnt found in a old stuffy set of prayer books...
just because people die doesnt mean that its all Gods fault... its typical when something bad happens its Gods fault... people always seem to blame God.. every small thing...
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
loudmouthspeaker
I hatted Saddam's tyranny also, & yes, it still existed! But then that's the point! if your Xian god were real, & lets thank him he's not, ha!, then we'd have something to really unite against.
You call hell punishment? Punishment is supposed to have some redemptive quality. Sending any sentient being to Hell would sadistically cruel & evil act, for only one reason...for the sole purpose of being vengeful...hateful. And for what, not belief? To use that as a reason is insanity.
Cootabux 1 year ago
@Cootabux i can see that you have the wrong end of stick in regards to these things.. most non christians share the same view
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
loudmouthspeaker
Cootabux i can see that you have the wrong end of stick in regards to these things.. most non christians share the same view
I'm sure u do see that, although I question the accuracy & honesty of ur findings. That's bcuz I've heard it all B4 & the claims were empty.
I understand this very well, tho. Xians must find a way of denying credibility of Ex-Christian's experiences, & especially those reasons for deconverting.
Xians can't allow themselves to consider the "why" of it
Cootabux 1 year ago
loudmouthspeaker
And I got another news flash for u. People who would see eternal torment from this demon god u worship, have no human decency, if they've ever had any at all!
Punishment for being human, which to listen to your Creationist pals, is exactly how the war god Yahweh made us! But the fact is we have animal natures. As much as u may hate it, Evolution is a fact...we are all apes, you too! But we are told a lie we're cursed for Adam & Eve's sinning!!
What a despicable & vile religion!
Cootabux 1 year ago
@Cootabux hi, so as an ape who came from evolution... your life was an accident. your life has no purpose..you live and you die..
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
loudmouthspeaker
Cootabux hi, so as an ape who came from evolution... your life was an accident. your life has no purpose..you live and you die..
That we are modern apes is a scientific fact. How life started, we aren't sure about, but that question doesn't give me reason to conclude a ghost-god was behind it!
My life has much purpose & I've lived a full & happy life so far. Yes, we all live & die. Whatever happens after that, who knows, but I'm sure it's not some angry judge. Life is precious
Cootabux 1 year ago
I love tentmakers!!!
You tell them Brother!!!!
I HATE the pagan hell doctrine!!
If you do not believe in a pagan hell, please put this sign or something similar on your channel!
**********A NO HELL CHANNEL*********
Thank You!
The Bagua
EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
BIG FOOL; HELL IS VERY REAL
HisWordisTruth 2 years ago
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EmeiBaguazhang 2 years ago
HisWordisTruth
Prove it! Btw, do u know the origin of hell? Do u know why u won't read about hell in the OT, only in the New?
The bible is BS, and so is it's characters! Ever heard of the Ugaritic Texts? It's the key that unlocked the puzzle of the early Hebrew polytheistic Elohim. Check it out and discover how the Hebrews fabricated their Judaism from the Canaanite Pantheon!
Only a true devil would create a hell for humans who are supposedly condemned at birth! What a sick concept to sell ppl!
Cootabux 1 year ago
Jesus said His words were Spirit and they were life.... until God reveals what that truly means, one can't accept that there is no hell or 'eternal punishment".
These are hidden mysteries which only God can teach us, they can not be learned via seminary and intellectual study.
Pray what it means and ask God to reveal truth and dispel darkness... and you too will "see" these glorious truths are real!
Unfortunately, most 'Christian leaders" are very fleshly and blind spiritually.
ChristianNewsWatch 2 years ago
ChristianNewsWatch
Yahweh murdered men, women, and children, all so he could give the Hebrews their land of milk and honey! (Thats's the way they tell it). Yahweh was genocidal, advocated slavery, and was misogynistic. Yet, he wasn't as bad as jesus! Jesus was far more evil bcuz his trick was hell! There no worst, more evil thing a being could invent, than a hell to send his children!
damn, the bible sure is a slew of sick fairytales! U should be glad evil gods like these don't really exist.
Cootabux 1 year ago
Universalism is UnBiblical Heresy.
BonzaiJakab 2 years ago
Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the World; 1John.4:14. God is Love & Love never fails(1 John. 4:8 & 1Cor. 13:8). The Greek word "No'te translated none, never, no means there can't be anyone in a particular group. An example is at 2Peter. 3:9: " not willing that any should perish ". The Greek word Thelema(Thelo) means the strong form of word "Will", not merely a desire or wishfull thinking. Man has choices, but none of these choices are free. Every choice we make has a prior cause, no freewill
oceangrove129 2 years ago
Revelation 21:8 (King James Version) 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
thorpypoo 2 years ago 5
thor..
Wow! I'm sure glad I ain't none a them!!
sixkiller111 2 years ago
Are you sure? Read Matthew Chapter 5 lately? You know, the sermon that condemns every single person on this planet. Which is why we need to believe in the real Jesus and not one that suits us.
thorpypoo 2 years ago 2
thor
Which one is the real one?? U gonna tell me U know who wrote the Gospel "according" to Matthew?? U know the answer of course.
sixkiller111 2 years ago
He has something missing.. I remember hearing that the greatest trick the devil ever made to man-kind was convincing man-kind he never existed in the first place.. This guy just sounds like some anti-christ spreading ideas.. I think heaven and hell exist on Earth and in the mind.. maybe it takes others longer to get to heaven. i just think fate is real and everything happens for a reason. its just too out of this world to barely get a grasp on. if only you would pay attention to the right thing
mcelroykirk12 2 years ago
mcel
Then you don't think much, and know much!!
Study the early church. Study how the church embraced and accepted U. S. for the 1st 5 centuries.
And what is the right thing? Do you know? Do you really know?? Ot is it your inclination to believe in something as the
"right thing?"
sixkiller111 2 years ago
@sixkiller111 We all know christianity prevailed over the US and it wasnt for 5 centureies Mr. US History over here.. more like a little over 200.. but yeah Christianity wasnt the same as it was in the beginning when they were more open minded and loved the mother father god and not just "GOD". Do you know the "right thing"?
mcelroykirk12 1 year ago
#1
mcelroykirk12
I'm sixkiller.
Hey genius, I didn't say it prevailed just over the US, I'm talking about the Americas & yes, I said 500 yrs. From Columbus' landing, to present day, we've struggled against Christianity forcing it's way into our lives.
I remember stories of Mormons, for example, who would come onto Reservations in the S.West and took children away from their families.
I knew 2 sisters who this happened to. They were neg. affected by their experience. They never wanted to go
Cootabux 1 year ago
#2
mcelroykirk12
outside, into the sun. They did everything to make their skins white. This is the crap the Mormons indoctrinated them with.
2 yrs ago in Canada, there was a large scandal about a huge Xian church/boarding school who were involved in the deaths of a number of Indians over the past 50 yrs. It was found that they were killing them, then selling their land to the lumber company.
So yeah, I gotta thing about organized Christianity invading our country & playing out their vile parts!
Cootabux 1 year ago
Universalism is a lie.
BonzaiJakab 2 years ago
Bonz..
Then god is evil!
sixkiller111 2 years ago
No my friend, you are sadly mistaken. God is not evil. God is Holy Righteous & Just.
BonzaiJakab 2 years ago
If the OT god is real, I say he's evil bcuz he ordered the deaths of thousands of innocent women and children. He advocates slavery. He thinks less of women than men. And, if he also created a hell, then all these factors can only mean he's evil in my view.
Btw, if Universalism is heresy, why was it accepted by the early fathers of the church and was maintained for 500 years?
sixkiller111 2 years ago
No one is innocent! No one is Righteous, no not even one. Read Romans 3. God is the Holy Righteous Just Judge of All The Earth.
Most people don't like to hear that anymore, they just want God to love them and forgive them while they run around dishonoring Him and sinning like crazy.
God does Love you. That is exactly why Jesus Christ came as a sinless sacrifice. However, you must repent of your sins and believe in Him to have eternal life.
Universalism was not accepted and maintained.
BonzaiJakab 2 years ago
Bon 1
"No 1 is innocent"
It doesnt bother me in the least bcuz I had nothing 2 do with it. If I carry the sins of A & E, then it is unjustified 4 a number of reasons.
A & E were created perfect so how could they be tempted & sin. Y would god allow satan 2 tempt them? If god is Ominiscient, he knew what would happen & could have changed it. He certainly wouldnt find a good reason 2 strap the entire human race with "their" sin
I knew there was something wrong with O.Sin since I was 10 yrs old.
sixkiller111 2 years ago 2
Dude, God never advocated slavery. The Bible mentions slavery and adds some laws concerning slavery because slavery actually existed.
Also, the slavery that the Bible mentions is not like American slavery fueled by racism.
The Bible never once says, it is a wonderful thing to beat and kill slaves because of their skin color. Matter of fact, Galatians 3:28 says that in Christ Jesus there is no race, gender, or distinction between slave and free, rather we are all one body.
BonzaiJakab 2 years ago
Bonz
If hell was created by god, & if it is eternal, then he, god, is evil incarnate.
There's no justification for committing terrorism & such horror on any sentient being, I don't care what he's done.
You cant intimidate people to "change" or to "be good." This has to come from the spirit growing or evolving, & U sure as hell can't do it in one short life. That's just absurd.
Hell has no purpose after the fact. It is only a sadistic tool. If tho, it is used to intimidate beforehand...
sixkiller111 2 years ago
Bonz
I like you Bonz! I love debating vertain kinds of ppl. I realllyyy wanna debate you!
U say it's Heresy? Prove it. Well, wait. I shouldn't use that word cuz I could say prove god exists, and U can't.
Let me say this. Have you ever wondered Y Hell isn't in the Torah? No where will U find it. Now wouldn't U expect god to warn us of the most important point of the bible? Yet we don't see any word that means "eternal torture." We don't see it until the NT & there's a lot to question there.
sixkiller111 2 years ago 2
Message Me.
BonzaiJakab 2 years ago
So nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about. I'm tired of the hellwishers damaging the reputation of Christians.
Steeleperfect 2 years ago 2
Steel..
Yes, these "hell-believers" have nevere studied the early church. The endless torment concept, thanks to Augustine, has changed the face of christianity anf has allowed the church to control the masses. The money factor can't be overlooked either.
sixkiller111 2 years ago
There will not be any evil people in that glorious future. Sinners will no longer be sinners, and the wicked will not remain wicked, for all will have been transformed. God will make all people new, for God made a promise saying "I make all things new" (Revelation 21:4-5).
AlloNeson 3 years ago 10
The words Eternal,Forever & Everlasting never appeared in the Greek language until sometime in the second century, C.E. The Bible canon was already accepted by then. The Greek Noun Aion(Age),it's adjective Aionios(pertaining to the ages)was eventually mistranlated Eternal,Everlasting & Forever. Eternal came from the Latin(Eternus)Aionios never means endless, but has a beginning and ending. Punishment is from the Greek Kolasin and should be rendered chastisement; and it's aim is remedial.
oceangrove129 3 years ago 5
ocean
Exactly!
Beautifully said!
sixkiller111 2 years ago
Jesus is the healer of all mankind and the whole universe.
arwen232 3 years ago 10