@strawberryseason Read your Bible, and learn to paraphrase before you show your ignorance!!! Proverbs 13:24 New Living Translation (NLT) "Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them."
@strawberryseason Offer one that says He doesn't. Just because there is no passage to say we can't slap our child on the butt, doesn't mean it's hitting. A closed fist is hitting.
@strawberryseason Jesus validated the old testament. He agreed with the old testament, he never said "oh the old testament was wrong!" Why would jesus reiterate everything in the old testament? then why even write the old testament? The book of Proverbs speaks about punishing children many times. Spanking children with care does still hurts but the trade off is worth it. If done with love and care the child will benefit from it later on.
This man does not know how emotionally battered, ashamed, angry and burned you feel when your protectors hurt you, forces you and scares you. I am a Christian, and I have in my life had to deal with this pain by turning to Jesus, who is Loving, Caring, Forgiving, Protective and most of all Disciplinery but WITHOUT FORCING ME or HURTING ME. I have a free will, and I CHOOSE to love him <3
Spanking. When you run out of arguments, you can always use this.
Honestly, when grown-ups use spanking on children, it's an embarrassment to everybody. Thankfully it became illegal in my country way back. It seems we advanced our morallity beyond the Bible. Wasn't very hard, though.
My wife and I had 6 children, 3 boys and 3 girls. I did spank a few times prior to their adolescence. It was to keep them or someone else from harm when I thought nothing else would work. They were never violent with others and were happy kids and now adults. I do think spanking is over done though because a shepherd guides with his rod gently except to prevent danger or harm. Spank in love not rage. Hug your child after and assure them of your love.
All have sinned and greatly offended the Holy God of the bible.! The just punishment is death then hell. because God is good He cannot let sin go unpunished. He will by no means clear the guilty. Gods will is that all come to repentence He became a man Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation.
An adult who spanks is regressing to a child-like state. It leaves no adult in the relationship with the child. This is frightening and confusing to the child.
@strawberryseason I agree, "don't hit me or you'll get a spanking!" sounds RIDICULOUS when you take a step back and analyse what a toddler is really saying.
This guy is insane, laughing like a lunatic looking like Tom Cruise... He should be in a mental institution, and I don't care how many thumbs downs I get for saying this.
@Griffin9857 lol he just thinks its funny, as do I, how we over-analyze everything. I was spanked as a child and no psychological/emotional problems developed from it. I even realized when they were doing it that it was just out of love. I agree that if you spank a child out of anger than that could scar them but when you do it out of love it is much less scarring than making them feel super guilty for an hour sitting by themselves in their room.
@phonebush An hour? it only needs to be for a few minutes and not on lockdown. Children understand much more than adults give them credit for. There is nothing loving about spanking a kid no matter which angle you look at it.
John Piper should not be dispensing child-rearing advice. He is clueless about human development. He says that spanking is "relieving." Not to the child. It allows the parent to inappropriately release rage. When an adult spanks, they are re-inacting their own childhood trauma. Piper says that after the spanking, the child is "happy." No. Undergoing humilation and pain does not leave a child happy, just with intense emotions that are buried by necessity. I feel sorry for his children.
@strawberryseason You can't make blanket statements like "when an adult spanks, they are re-inacting their own childhood trauma." Umm...I wasn't traumatized when I got spanked as a child. Why do we link spanking with uncontrolled rage towards a child? Now we have gone the opposite way where teachers have to be careful not to potentially mentally/physically "abuse" so much that when a student acts violently toward a teacher he/she can't even restrain the child from hurting other kids or them!
@soulwake85 I do believe that many forms of discipline can work on kids. I would argue you have never seen well thought out spanking that has a purpose to correct the child. The parents I know warn the child of the consequence that will happen when they act inappropriately and even confirm with the child why they are getting a spanking. Amazingly, the kids always know why because the parents have a purpose not because parents wanted to randomly beat and inflict pain on their kid that day.
@soulwake85 Spanking is violence. You said that it didn't traumatize you, but you do not remember those early emotions, and they are still active inside you on some level. Adults who advocate spanking were spanked themselves, and they want to see the next generation experience the same trauma. Spanking causes a breach in the relationship between the parent and child. It is not healing, but destructive, no matter how "calmly" it is carried out.
@MrSlippin22 If you think that spanking helps a child, you are deluded. Of course children need to be taught right from wrong, but spanking does not TEACH proper behavior. It only models violence. Proper behavior is taught through verbal communication, as well as parents showing a good example. The way a parent behaves is the most important lesson a child will ever learn.
Gods word knows better than we do. I never hit my daughter because i never had to I have just given her time outs. little boys on the other hand Who are rebellious need to be dealt with and need to be disciplined or they will have no respect. and im not talking about coming home drunk and beating him either, a spanking when he is out of line Proverbs 19:18
Discipline your children while there is hope. Otherwise you will ruin their lives.
@MrSlippin Proverbs 19:18 says to discipline. It does not say to hit. The root of the word discipline means "to teach." When you hit your sons, you are not teaching. You are only demonstrating a very bad example. And then people wonder why their children hit each other! Because they have learned that hitting is a way to deal with conflict.
Parents who do not spank are not "ruining their childrens' lives." They are taking the time to teach instead of using violence. Spanking ruins lives.
@MrSlippin22 The Bible does not use the word "spank." This is the exact wording of the passage you refer to: "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." Do you believe that tells you to hit your son with a rod? How big of a rod & what circumfrence? If you believe it is ok to hit your son with a "rod," you believe in child abuse. Solomon who wrote the passage had 700 wives. Are you going to follow him in everything? Use the brain God gave you!
Jesus came and changed the law of marriage Corinthians 7:2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.I think your right I looked in the new testament and Jesus seems to have changed spanking too ( not that i would ever spank my daughter) I assumed Piper was right about this because he knows so much scripture, looks like he needs to tell his son he is sorry and repent of telling others to do what is wrong in the eyes of God!
@MrSlippin22 Yes, Jesus, had a different approach to children than that advocated in the Old Testament. For a thoughtful video on this issue, please see "Is it ok to spank your child? What does the Bible say?" on youtube. Mark is a thoughtful Christian father who has wrestled with this very issue. He comes to the conclusion that spanking is not advocated by Scripture, and is not Christ-like. I agree that Rev. Piper needs to ask his children for forgiveness and to repent posting this video!
I viewed that video "Is it ok to spank your child? What does the Bible say?" In fact I posted it on my Facebook wall and had many people comment on it. and disagree with me and the video. but i stood firm with the word of God and many changed there mind and concluded that It is not ok to hit your child. thank you again for shedding light on this for me, : ) Thank you, : )
@MrSlippin22 The New Living Translation is not the literal words of the Bible. It is translated by someone who is putting their own "modern" take on the meanings.
that person will be held accountable, I was basing my understanding of scripture on this translation Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
@strawberryseason In fairness...no translation is. Though translations are often very good and very effective, no translation will ever perfectly capture the meaning in the original language. Not to mention, "don't add to the content of this book" was often a warning against pseudepigraphers (sp?) and forgers, not a condemnation of readability.
@strawberryseason I have three boys n three girls. When i had to spank them, not try to kill them, they were good n listened after that. They respected me also. I rather spank them than to let the cops do it. That's why the world is so messed up today. Parents letting the kids do what they want to. The kids rule a lot of these parents today anyway. Look at it on t.v. etc. I don't believe in trying to hurt the kid at all. They do learn. To each it's own. I rule in my house.
@rossdaboss1959 If your kids respect you it has nothing to do with the spankings, but rather the times you took to truely teach them with words, not blows. Spanking does not teach. It only leaves the kid with a lot of anger and sadness inside.
@rossdaboss1959 Where does Jesus say to hit kids? you are quoting Solomon who had 300 wives and 700 concubines. Are you going to take his advice in family matters?
@strawberryseason What does the number of Solomon's wives have to do with anything? That was culturally acceptable at the time. Solomon was blessed by God with wisdom. I would take his advice any day.
@col3v17 If Solomon had 300 wive and 700 concubines, then how many children do you think he had? Thousands! Do you think he had a personal relationship with any of them?? No way. Is that the model you are looking for on how to raise children? Bad model.
John Piper says "Children have fat little bottoms so that they can be whopped." Maybe he desires his children's "fat little bottoms." He has a big smile on his face as he describes the act of inflicting pain on his child's body. He clearly enjoys spanking. Most spankers do, even if they are hiding that aspect from consciousness. Hitting another person releases adrenaline, which is a highly addictive substance.
@strawberryseason Only the devil will take u there. The sad thing is u don't even see it. Hope i don't see u on one of those talk show with a black eye from your kids.
@strawberrymutt I was spanked as a child & it helped me stay away from drugs, violence, cheating, dishonesty, hate, sexual impurities & the list goes on. It's selfish people like yourself who allow damaging pains in the lives of children because they were never loved enough to be disciplined to know and do what is right!
@ilikezappa Your response is emotional & laced with anger, "kicked your head in..." Ultimately this is not a 'cult' yet an opportunity for you to know your Creator through Jesus Christ. Ask God to forgive you because we're all sinners and believe in Jesus Christ to provide for you in EVERY AREA of your life. I'm just sharing the living Hope which saved me, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful & righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1John 1:9
@jqologist Glad it works for you . I see no compelling evidence in its favour,and consider promoting superstition instead of rational enquiry as harmful to humanity ,but ,hey , that`s just me.......
Violence brings more violence. Every developmental psychologist and pediatrician out there will tell you that spanking leads to sexual issues, mental problems, and lower I.Q. There are plenty of studies to back all of this. Personally, I think I will listen to the child specialists instead of a centuries-old and poorly translated book. This is just people using religion as an excuse for child abuse and power-play. It insults the name of God to inflict pain on a child (an act of evil) in His name
You can discipline without actually hitting a kid. According to almost every psychologist I have heard on TV or talked to in real life hitting kids makes them more aggressive as they get older. Today's kids suck because their parents are kids themselves. My parents disciplined me with hard labor, making me dig ditches and put up brick fences over the summer if I got bad grades, clean the vents if I mouthed off, etc. Worked for me and I will likely do it for my kids too.
@Cajaquarius Psychology vs. the Bible? Gee tough one... Not. Spare the rod and spoil the child. That means discipline should be given. It will NOT harm the child to receive a swat on the rear. It is only harmful, when done in excess or in anger from the parent.
@speedy5662 The rod is symbolic, like much of the bible. I doubt your God wants you to beat your child half to death with an iron rod for lying or getting a bad grade unless he is evil. Let me ask you something; how do you guys decide which parts of the bible to take literally or the parts you take to be symbolically? Clearly you take the rod portion literally but I assume in the book of Revelations when it mentions Jesus having swords come from his mouth, you assume that symbolic.
@Cajaquarius My hand is the rod and I'm not as ignorant as those who seem so judgmental to giving a child A swat on their butt, when needed. You "ASS-u-ME" too much. I swat with my open palm and it leaves a red mark for 30 seconds. My children know how to give respect to everyone and they do it daily. I look around and couldn't begin to tell you the numbers of spoiled brats that have never gotten swatted or had parents that were competent enough to even begin to discipline them.
@strawberryseason The ignorance is on you. You have not read that I don't HIT, I slap. there is a difference so pay attention, because I'm not going to reply to your lame way of thinking, I pray that if you have children you will learn how to discipline them accordingly, because they are going to turn out to be more scum in society otherwise.
@speedy5662 You are trying to justify your aggression as "good" for your chlidren, but in fact, hitting your kids does not teach right from wrong. It only makes them angry and sad inside.
The most well-behaved and happy children are those who have parents who have taken the time to learn how to discipline (teach) in ways that maintain the relationship between the parent and child. Spanking causes a profound breach in the parent-child relationship.
@Cajaquarius he's not saying "Beat the child half to death" lol...and what's with "you guys" you're generalizing way too much . You need to read the Bible because it's clear you simply don't understand the text. You have a wrong view of God...."God disciplines everyone he loves." God uses suffering to discipline his children..are you hearing what JP's saying? he's right on target.
@speedy5662 Point is, the rod represents punishment and correction and those things can be achieved better with non-violent means. The only reason to hit a child is to take your anger out on him for what he did. There is no other reason. You can make all the excuses you like but, at the end of the day, when offered non-violent alternatives you chose the path of violence.
@speedy5662 "Spare the rod and spoil the child' is NOT in the Bible. It is from a 17th century poem. Learn your facts. Jesus did not advocate hitting children.
Scientific research has shown spanking a child has no different effect than not spanking. To the person who said if you do not spank your child than you do not love them, I would hate to be in your SATANIC sadistic home. If I knew you I would throw you in jail. Criminal!
gauss.unh.edu/~mas2/CP24.pdf - This is just one study linking spanking (corporal punishment) to anti-social behavior in children. Hopefully "I know how much is good for my child" helps you sleep at night.
@santisevenX I already have ipecac if I want to force myself to vomit, thanks.
Anyhoo, you should really look up the statistics on spanked-versus-non-spanked kids. You'd think if God was cool with it, they wouldn't be so fucked up psychologically when they grow up. I'm sure you "turned out just fine" save for that cognitive dissonance affliction and the unwarranted intellectual superiority issue you seem to have.
@VoteBK Statistics can be manipulated to suit anyone's fancy if we're honest here. So don't throw around statistics like they're these self-evident axioms of truth. Besides, many reports also admit that the data collected was mostly by memory recall on behalf of the participants. Spanking on occasion has shown to be beneficial and that is the method I agree with. Constant spanking loses its meaning and can lead to problems psychologically, emotionally etc. But make the differentiation.
@santisevenX "statistics can be manipulated to suit anyone's fancy," the last refuge of people who ignore the world around them in order to facilitate the worldview of one man's interpretation of the bible (the "rod" of a shepherd is not used to strike a sheep, merely guide it).
@VoteBK It isn't a refuge sir. The blind and ignorant acceptance of statistics without finding out the parameters, factors involved in getting the data is common place in a society who has rejected critical thinking for emotional and subjective. Like I said certain studies in the "world around me" would show that occasional spanking is actually beneficial.
@santisevenX - Where are these peer reviewed scientific studies? I am in the University and all you have is hocus pocus talk. I believe in God and love God, but it is time people like you grow up because you are no different than a bully. I can guarantee the children that got good grades were not the ones who their parents beat them till they made them tear up.
@EvertonFooty What does being in university have to do with anything? You don't have to be smart to go to college, that example clearly being yourself if you are misrepresenting me so poorly and maligning the integrity of the topic. I never said "I believe in God and love God". I do both but it wasn't said. Your the one saying you can guarantee something you really can't guarantee at all! You clearly have no knowledge of this topic. Your really just critical of religion, not spanking I can tell.
@santisevenX - If you "love" God you would not resort to ad hominem. And you clearly are an ignorant man, the Universities are where most scientific discoviries are made. Next time you are terminally ill or have cancer, go to Mr. Piper, I am sure he will pray the demons out of you.
And I am not critical of religion, but stupidity and abusive monsters such as yourself. I was spanked and my father told me it was the most useless thing a parent can do and physically taking on him.
@santisevenX - And you clearly are not an educated or smart individual because at university you have to prove what you say to scientists who are top of their field, scientists who give your poor abused children medicine. Ignorant fool.
@EvertonFooty Haha. Your response literally made me laugh. All your comments are so off topic and irrelevant. You commenting on issues that spanking is far from, like scientific discoveries and medicine. Don't accuse me of ad hominem and then do it yourself.
another great response from John Piper! Great stuff, the bible can be applied to every aspect of life. We should stop thinking we know whats best and acknowledge that God who made everything knows what he's talking about and why he asks us to do certain things
I don't believe that spanking is wrong, however, I also don't believe that you should spank a child when you are angry. When you spank a child when you are angry, you can sometimes (accidentally) inflect your anger into the child's pain.
Piper: "Children have little fat bottoms so that they can be whopped."
...Uh, that is some funny logic there John. John does not address the excessive abusive spanking that is a part of some Bible belt fundamentalist cultures like the one I grew up in. I wonder if John is even aware of the existence of abusive and controlling parents.
@mikeeoyou2bify discipline and abuse to different things. I have a girl who is almost 2 (brother not her parent). I have 2 spank her, bad as hell becuz she thinks there r no effects for her throwing stuff and putting up a fit, and she has the most sense in the world. Kids arent dumb, it doesnt lead 2 abuse. Abuse is when u beat ur kids becuz u wish to or r angry. Kids understand the concept of RULES! Had foster kids who r retarded and they get it also, and they end up loving the hell out you
It can't be about physical contact. Or else you'd never give your child the Heimlich when it was necessary. So it must be about the spirit of the physical contact (the actual substance of the interaction). If my dad hit me for no reason, I'd be confused and scared all the time. But I never felt unloved when my parents spanked me. It was more like getting a Heimlich maneuver.
@boxofcigars wrong. Violence is a motivation to not use violence. Do u think a people wud start wars with nations becuz they know they can get nuked? Y do u think America survives? Violence unlike theory stops violence its the abuse of violence. When a person knows what violence leads 2 they will stop it but when they dont suffer they dont give a shit.
I love this!!! " Children have fat bottoms so they can be wopped"
Pastor John Piper is a legend. I got spanked by my parents and love them for it. The world seems to confuse discipline with being cruel. Cruelty = Unbiblical, Spanking = Biblical.
Spanking a Child is primary for leazy people.If you can't bring out the best of your children talking and,'educating them it will not happen with spanking. What about spanking the parents becouse they are not able to educate their children?Hoe's the adult?Hoe knows better?
209jaedoe@.YOU ACHIEVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SPANKING YOUR CHILD.Maybe your child will develop a FEAR of you but not RESPECT.Maybe if you want to hurt you child ,you may as well waterboard him.What about that ?
My parents spanked me and I'm do glad they did. They are my parents and they knew me they knew how to discipline me. I needed spankings. I thank God for every one of them. Truth be known I probably didn't get enough. Spankings saved me from hell and jail. Now I spank mine I don't play this talking And time out trash I have boys and they are wild they need spanking. LOL they will thank me one day.
1.08 he says "Jesus believed the bible" that my friend is comedy gold. Also the fact that he could give us a "whole theology on spanking" kinda weirds me out.
All violence in any amount for any reason always without exception has a negative effect on the spirit regardless of how justified or necessary it may seem to the carnal mind. Every great person throughout history that has understood spirituality to any extent has always spoke out against violence. Spiritual energies simply do not work that way.
(cont'd) parent who sends their child to their room for an indefinite amount of time is being just as lazy as a parent who spanks their child without a discussion/positive end. As I understand it, time outs are most effective when they're done with a time limit. Any disciplinary act should be consistent and appropriate to the wrong-doing. If a parent is consistent, the child will be just as happy as the child who received the spanking as described in the video.
First, I have to say I'm not completely against spanking, but I am against the idea of it (or any discipline method) perceived as being "quick and easy." True discipline is never "easy", and this is precisely why a lot of negative outcomes can come out of parents who are not following through on whatever their desired method is whether it is spanking, time outs, etc. I agree with the idea of measured, appropriate disciplinary acts, but I think his description of a (to be continued)
So, where is the line drawn between disciplining your child by spanking and child abuse? I believe in spanking; don't get me wrong. I was spanked when I was a kid. But my parents would always do it with abuse. They never gave me a hug and told me they loved me after they did it.
@Sup750 there is no line except in the mind of each individual. The imaginary line between abuse and discipline is not in the Bible. ANd the law is very vague using such terms as " within reason" I say if you want to know how much is to much first do it to your spouse and see how they respond !
@livin4jesus0225 a child has freewill. everyone does. psychological damage will only come to the child if that child is properly being demonstrated on what is wrong or right. you shouldn't have to spank the kid all the time for every single wrong, thats where we find grace. Children slowly learn how to live lovingly. They learn like adults learn. plus if the Word says its wrong to not punish your child by the rod than theres a reason for for it. I dont like doing it sometimes, but it is loving.
I agree that children should be spanked. I definately do not support a parent taking out their frustration on their child. Their has to be a balance, and unfortunately alot of folks today grew up with a sour taste in their mouth, because their was no possitive affirmation after the act of discipline.
One side says beat em'! and the other says dont touch em'!, while in the middle there is the disipline and affirmative love needed to guide the child into a healthy parent/child relationship.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" - 2 Tim 3:16.
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." - Prov 23:13.
"Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty" - Job 5:17 (see Revelation 1:7-9).
that's why America has rotten, spoiled, incompetent, disobedient , disrespectful children. Because they wouldn't spank them and asked silly questions like these.
IF YOU DONT SPANK A CHILD AND DISCIPLINE THEM FOR THEIR DISOBEDIENCE THEN YOU HATE YOUR CHILDREN. THATS THE PROBLEM WITH OUR CULTURE TODAY THEY NEGLECT THE LOVING DISCIPLINE THAT OUR FATHER JESUS CHRIST HAS ON US.HE DISCIPLINES US BECAUSE HE LOVES US! NO WONDER YOU HAVE KIDS TELLING THEIR MOM' F U' AND SPOILED AMERICAN KIDS WANTING TO COMMIT SUICIDE BECAUSE THEIR MOM TAKES AWAY THEIR I PHONE! WE NEED TO CORRECT OUR CHILDREN BECAUSE WE LOVE THEM PERIOD!! GOOD ANSWER PIPER!
@209jaedoe physically hurting a child is a barbaric and lazy way of guiding a child's mind. Teach them peace, show the SELF discipline. Show them how to be selfless. BEATING your children will cause them to HATE you and they will grow up being rebellious, obviously your kids are still young becuase once they get old enough to think for themselves they will remember what you did to them and they will NOT love you and they will not follow your corrupt religion.
there are christians who do not believe in spanking and there is strong evidence against it within the bible.
the rod they speak of was to guide..not hit. and the child is actually supposed to be teenager. this is if you realize the hebrew words in the old testament. also, i know many children who were spanked and grew up horrible. some children never hit and grew up great. so i agree with you on most of what you say.
The youtube boxes are small so I can't write everything, so I try to at least make one point. This conversation is a bit old. But, please, do research and come to your own conclusion. I have already come to mine. Thanks. :)
@saphiredewdrop So, what is your conclusion, just curious. I'm interested to hear. And what homework were you pointing me out to exactly? Because for sure I don't mind doing my "homework". :-) Thanks much, have a great day.
My personal conclusion is that spanking shouldn't be a form of discipline. I found some websites that broke down the languages of the Bible in the past and nowhere does it say to spank a child. You will have to google and search because I read them some months ago. It was very interesting and really showed me that the Bible should really be studied in its original form to get the best understanding. not only with the spanking issue.
@saphiredewdrop What Bible were you reading? The Bible definatively states that parents should spank their children otherwise they will be spoiled. I honest believe you only wrote that comment to cause confusion here. I dont think you have done any research on the subject. I believe your aim is to cause confusion, distort the truth and lead people astray.
I have done research and the research goes to the original hebrew and greek words. Because of my research I have come to MY conclusion. YOU do NOT have to follow my conclusion, but don't say I am here causing confusion and show disrespect to MY belief. I also clearly told others to do their own research. So stop with your lying about me leading people astray and starting confusion. Stop self projecting, you come off as the liar.
@JohnWhiting21 Im only getting my info from the bible buddy ; he who spares the rod on his child hates his child'' proverbs 13:24 so are you saying the bible is distorted? you betta do your homework friend then talk theology
question: we need to use a rod then. If it isn't a cultural issue, it isn't a cultural issue. Next time I'm at Lifeway I will ask the store-attendant, you know, the one who wears a pair of golden I'm-pro-life-baby-feet on her lapelle - if the child-spanking rods are on sale. Then I will go look for a rod, which I will find next to the kids' Bibles, whose covers have Jesus holding kids on his lap! :) Piper is ostensibly... huh... what's the word I'm looking for... creepy. That's it. Creepy.
/// There is no word for ‘spirituality’ in Hebrew, and no concept of Spirituality in Judaism. The primary meaning of ruach is ‘wind’. ///
Just because there may be no word called "spirituality" in Hebrew, doesnt mean they werent conscience of a spiritual meaning or spiritual reality! Like I said... HEBREWS 11:10,13 says the opposite
Christ even said that ABRAHAM new the spiritual reality....Abraham REJOICED THAT HE WOULD SEE MY DAY...." (John8:56)
The Apostle Paul (who was an expert in the Law) said "For WE KNOW that the Law is SPIRITUAL".
If you went up to any true Jew in the Old Testament, he wouldve said the same thing - and I'm not talking about the Pharisees who TWISTED the Law to mean the opposite - I'm talking about the TRUE Old Testament Jew.
and now, brothers and sisters, let's all go read Leviticus 20 and do what it says, because Jesus endorses it. Let's stone and burn people who break the law, until the law is accomplished... How this man proposes his ideas as the ideas of Jesus can only be because of his arrogance. Why not punch the child and create a black eye or break the child's arm? Where does the Bible say to just swat the bottom? Oh wait, Piper said it... The way he imposes his culture as biblical is unacceptable.
/// and now, brothers and sisters, let's all go read Leviticus 20 and do what it says... Let's stone and burn people who break the law.. ///
You obviously havent read the O.T. in its entirity... Those Laws were never meant for the general public! They were only meant for the "MAGISTRATES/JUDGES" to carry out - Read for yourself - DEUTERONOMY 19:18,20
/// Why not punch the child and create a black eye or break the child's arm? ///
Why does man's law(the government) and the law of christ have to be seperate? Because the government is of a carnal mind knows not the things of christ or things of the spirit. Under the new covenant ,christians are held to the laws of Love, peace, forgiveness and mercy. spiritual laws that the government by it's very nature can not rule by.
The carnal mind is an enemy to GOd romans 8:7 for it knows not the things of the spirit. The government is of a carnal mind there for it has to rule the only way it knows how -by force. This is exceptable by GOd for the evil people to be controlled by the evil government for the sake of society. However God's children are held to another standard walking after the things of the spirit handling all they do spiritually and not carnally. Corporal punishment is carnal !
/// The carnal mind... knows not the things of the spirit. ///
And? God even sovereignly controls the "carnal minds" of men to move them to their every decision - PROVERBS 21:1 and GENESIS 20:6 and EZRA 1:1 and REVELATION 17:17.
//// God's children are held to another standard walking after the things of the spirit ////
Paul said "Shall I come to you with a ROD?"(1Cor.4:21)
and
"It was TO SPARE YOU that I refrained from coming..." 2Cor.1:23, 2:1-2, 12:20, 13:2,10
Where in the Bible does it say that?? Unless you can find me a direct verse you are adding to Scripture.
//// christians are held to the laws of Love, ////
Parents spanking their disobedient child is a VERY loving thing to do - just as it says in PROVERBS 13:24 - "Whoever spares the rod HATES his child..."
God has granted parents to discipline their children, as it says in Heb.12:10, "AS SEEMS BEST TO THEM".
@atterolevad All through the new testiment there is a comparison being done between the carnal and the spiritual sometimes refered to as worldyness and Godlyness showing how the two never really go together. the carnal is only an illusion and under it all spiritual truth exist. Handling something carnally with totall disregard of the effects it is having on spiritual energies is the problem we call sin. Such actions is poison to the soul .
The old testiment people had no concept of spiritual things.this is why God's law and man's law was intertwined ,dealing with people in the carnal sence. When christ delivered us from the law of moses, God's law and man's law seperated. Though GOd allows the Government to use force for the controlling of the guilty for the protection of the innocent it is still being done by a secular,non-christian carnal minded government that knows nothing of the things of the spirit..unlike God's childtren.
//// The old testiment people had no concept of spiritual things ////
RUBBISH. That part is refuted by HEBREWS 11:10,13 - "For Abraham was looking to the city...whose designer and builder is God..... These all died in faith, not having recerved the things promised, but GREETED THEM FROM AFAR.... The desired a better country, that is, a HEAVENLY one."
Christ even said that ABRAHAM new the spiritual reality....Abraham REJOICED THAT HE WOULD SEE MY DAY...." (John8:56)
Pervert.
kadene2 1 week ago
@strawberryseason Read your Bible, and learn to paraphrase before you show your ignorance!!! Proverbs 13:24 New Living Translation (NLT) "Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them."
speedy5662 1 week ago
@speedy5662 You are ignorant about your Bible. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is NOT in the Bible.
strawberryseason 2 days ago
@speedy5662 Please offer one passage where Jesus advocates hitting children.
strawberryseason 2 days ago
@strawberryseason Offer one that says He doesn't. Just because there is no passage to say we can't slap our child on the butt, doesn't mean it's hitting. A closed fist is hitting.
speedy5662 2 days ago
@strawberryseason Jesus validated the old testament. He agreed with the old testament, he never said "oh the old testament was wrong!" Why would jesus reiterate everything in the old testament? then why even write the old testament? The book of Proverbs speaks about punishing children many times. Spanking children with care does still hurts but the trade off is worth it. If done with love and care the child will benefit from it later on.
j79k2000 2 days ago
@j79k2000 There are many laws in the Old Testament that were overturned by Jesus. "An Eye for an Eye" is one of them.
Spanking children is a form of violence, no matter how you phrase it or try to justify it.
strawberryseason 2 days ago
"you don't umnp.." lool, sound effects and everything.this is awesome.
HeiligHeiligHeilig 1 week ago
This man does not know how emotionally battered, ashamed, angry and burned you feel when your protectors hurt you, forces you and scares you. I am a Christian, and I have in my life had to deal with this pain by turning to Jesus, who is Loving, Caring, Forgiving, Protective and most of all Disciplinery but WITHOUT FORCING ME or HURTING ME. I have a free will, and I CHOOSE to love him <3
mongomongo88 2 weeks ago
Spanking. When you run out of arguments, you can always use this.
Honestly, when grown-ups use spanking on children, it's an embarrassment to everybody. Thankfully it became illegal in my country way back. It seems we advanced our morallity beyond the Bible. Wasn't very hard, though.
HKragh 2 weeks ago
Of course Jesus would approve spanking. Hell, Jesus killed a kid simply for brushing by him.
CommitToFocus 2 weeks ago
My wife and I had 6 children, 3 boys and 3 girls. I did spank a few times prior to their adolescence. It was to keep them or someone else from harm when I thought nothing else would work. They were never violent with others and were happy kids and now adults. I do think spanking is over done though because a shepherd guides with his rod gently except to prevent danger or harm. Spank in love not rage. Hug your child after and assure them of your love.
jamieseiple 3 weeks ago
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All have sinned and greatly offended the Holy God of the bible.! The just punishment is death then hell. because God is good He cannot let sin go unpunished. He will by no means clear the guilty. Gods will is that all come to repentence He became a man Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation.
mamainmancj 4 weeks ago
i used to get spanked i loved my mum still and it worked. lol spanked sounds so corny.
mamainmancj 4 weeks ago
An adult who spanks is regressing to a child-like state. It leaves no adult in the relationship with the child. This is frightening and confusing to the child.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
@strawberryseason I agree, "don't hit me or you'll get a spanking!" sounds RIDICULOUS when you take a step back and analyse what a toddler is really saying.
Griffin9857 2 weeks ago
This guy is insane, laughing like a lunatic looking like Tom Cruise... He should be in a mental institution, and I don't care how many thumbs downs I get for saying this.
Griffin9857 2 months ago
@Griffin9857 I agree with you. This "preacher" has mental problems.
strawberryseason 2 months ago
@strawberryseason Thank goodness for you and your sound reasoning skills :)
Griffin9857 2 months ago
@Griffin9857 lol he just thinks its funny, as do I, how we over-analyze everything. I was spanked as a child and no psychological/emotional problems developed from it. I even realized when they were doing it that it was just out of love. I agree that if you spank a child out of anger than that could scar them but when you do it out of love it is much less scarring than making them feel super guilty for an hour sitting by themselves in their room.
phonebush 2 weeks ago
@phonebush An hour? it only needs to be for a few minutes and not on lockdown. Children understand much more than adults give them credit for. There is nothing loving about spanking a kid no matter which angle you look at it.
Griffin9857 2 weeks ago
I vow this day to NEVER listen to preachers who support spanking a child.
micherrera 2 months ago
Jesus would have NEVER spanked children. HITTING IS WRONG!
micherrera 2 months ago
John Piper should not be dispensing child-rearing advice. He is clueless about human development. He says that spanking is "relieving." Not to the child. It allows the parent to inappropriately release rage. When an adult spanks, they are re-inacting their own childhood trauma. Piper says that after the spanking, the child is "happy." No. Undergoing humilation and pain does not leave a child happy, just with intense emotions that are buried by necessity. I feel sorry for his children.
strawberryseason 2 months ago
@strawberryseason You can't make blanket statements like "when an adult spanks, they are re-inacting their own childhood trauma." Umm...I wasn't traumatized when I got spanked as a child. Why do we link spanking with uncontrolled rage towards a child? Now we have gone the opposite way where teachers have to be careful not to potentially mentally/physically "abuse" so much that when a student acts violently toward a teacher he/she can't even restrain the child from hurting other kids or them!
soulwake85 2 months ago 2
@soulwake85 I do believe that many forms of discipline can work on kids. I would argue you have never seen well thought out spanking that has a purpose to correct the child. The parents I know warn the child of the consequence that will happen when they act inappropriately and even confirm with the child why they are getting a spanking. Amazingly, the kids always know why because the parents have a purpose not because parents wanted to randomly beat and inflict pain on their kid that day.
soulwake85 2 months ago
@soulwake85 Spanking is violence. You said that it didn't traumatize you, but you do not remember those early emotions, and they are still active inside you on some level. Adults who advocate spanking were spanked themselves, and they want to see the next generation experience the same trauma. Spanking causes a breach in the relationship between the parent and child. It is not healing, but destructive, no matter how "calmly" it is carried out.
strawberryseason 2 months ago
@strawberryseason
you couldn't be more wrong... but then again... you like being your own God who makes all the choices for YOUR life...
Specilum 2 months ago
@Specilum God did not tell you to hit your kids. It is your own culture telling you to. Hitting your children is NOT Christlike.
strawberryseason 2 months ago
watch what happens if you dont spank your child
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 If you think that spanking helps a child, you are deluded. Of course children need to be taught right from wrong, but spanking does not TEACH proper behavior. It only models violence. Proper behavior is taught through verbal communication, as well as parents showing a good example. The way a parent behaves is the most important lesson a child will ever learn.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
Gods word knows better than we do. I never hit my daughter because i never had to I have just given her time outs. little boys on the other hand Who are rebellious need to be dealt with and need to be disciplined or they will have no respect. and im not talking about coming home drunk and beating him either, a spanking when he is out of line Proverbs 19:18
Discipline your children while there is hope. Otherwise you will ruin their lives.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin Proverbs 19:18 says to discipline. It does not say to hit. The root of the word discipline means "to teach." When you hit your sons, you are not teaching. You are only demonstrating a very bad example. And then people wonder why their children hit each other! Because they have learned that hitting is a way to deal with conflict.
Parents who do not spank are not "ruining their childrens' lives." They are taking the time to teach instead of using violence. Spanking ruins lives.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
Proverbs 23:13 Don't fail to discipline your children. They won't die if you spank them
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 The Bible does not use the word "spank." This is the exact wording of the passage you refer to: "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." Do you believe that tells you to hit your son with a rod? How big of a rod & what circumfrence? If you believe it is ok to hit your son with a "rod," you believe in child abuse. Solomon who wrote the passage had 700 wives. Are you going to follow him in everything? Use the brain God gave you!
strawberryseason 1 month ago
Jesus came and changed the law of marriage Corinthians 7:2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.I think your right I looked in the new testament and Jesus seems to have changed spanking too ( not that i would ever spank my daughter) I assumed Piper was right about this because he knows so much scripture, looks like he needs to tell his son he is sorry and repent of telling others to do what is wrong in the eyes of God!
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 Yes, Jesus, had a different approach to children than that advocated in the Old Testament. For a thoughtful video on this issue, please see "Is it ok to spank your child? What does the Bible say?" on youtube. Mark is a thoughtful Christian father who has wrestled with this very issue. He comes to the conclusion that spanking is not advocated by Scripture, and is not Christ-like. I agree that Rev. Piper needs to ask his children for forgiveness and to repent posting this video!
strawberryseason 1 month ago
I viewed that video "Is it ok to spank your child? What does the Bible say?" In fact I posted it on my Facebook wall and had many people comment on it. and disagree with me and the video. but i stood firm with the word of God and many changed there mind and concluded that It is not ok to hit your child. thank you again for shedding light on this for me, : ) Thank you, : )
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
The bible does use the word spank tho I got this right out of Proverbs 23:13 New Living Translation
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 The New Living Translation is not the literal words of the Bible. It is translated by someone who is putting their own "modern" take on the meanings.
strawberryseason 1 month ago
that person will be held accountable, I was basing my understanding of scripture on this translation Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@strawberryseason In fairness...no translation is. Though translations are often very good and very effective, no translation will ever perfectly capture the meaning in the original language. Not to mention, "don't add to the content of this book" was often a warning against pseudepigraphers (sp?) and forgers, not a condemnation of readability.
AvadaKedavra1138 1 week ago
@strawberryseason I have three boys n three girls. When i had to spank them, not try to kill them, they were good n listened after that. They respected me also. I rather spank them than to let the cops do it. That's why the world is so messed up today. Parents letting the kids do what they want to. The kids rule a lot of these parents today anyway. Look at it on t.v. etc. I don't believe in trying to hurt the kid at all. They do learn. To each it's own. I rule in my house.
rossdaboss1959 1 month ago
@rossdaboss1959 If your kids respect you it has nothing to do with the spankings, but rather the times you took to truely teach them with words, not blows. Spanking does not teach. It only leaves the kid with a lot of anger and sadness inside.
strawberryseason 2 weeks ago
@strawberryseason To each their own. I do what the Bible says, n it works.
rossdaboss1959 2 weeks ago
@rossdaboss1959 Where does Jesus say to hit kids? you are quoting Solomon who had 300 wives and 700 concubines. Are you going to take his advice in family matters?
strawberryseason 2 weeks ago
@strawberryseason What does the number of Solomon's wives have to do with anything? That was culturally acceptable at the time. Solomon was blessed by God with wisdom. I would take his advice any day.
col3v17 4 days ago
@col3v17 If Solomon had 300 wive and 700 concubines, then how many children do you think he had? Thousands! Do you think he had a personal relationship with any of them?? No way. Is that the model you are looking for on how to raise children? Bad model.
strawberryseason 2 days ago
John Piper says "Children have fat little bottoms so that they can be whopped." Maybe he desires his children's "fat little bottoms." He has a big smile on his face as he describes the act of inflicting pain on his child's body. He clearly enjoys spanking. Most spankers do, even if they are hiding that aspect from consciousness. Hitting another person releases adrenaline, which is a highly addictive substance.
strawberryseason 2 months ago
@strawberryseason Only the devil will take u there. The sad thing is u don't even see it. Hope i don't see u on one of those talk show with a black eye from your kids.
rossdaboss1959 2 weeks ago
@rossdaboss1959 The people who end up being hit by their kids are people who use corporal punishment and inculcated the rage inside their children.
strawberryseason 2 weeks ago
Man, this is fucking low. To use the Christian religion to support the cultural prejudices of a bunch of gothic, Southern low-lifes.
nsecchi1 2 months ago
@strawberrymutt I was spanked as a child & it helped me stay away from drugs, violence, cheating, dishonesty, hate, sexual impurities & the list goes on. It's selfish people like yourself who allow damaging pains in the lives of children because they were never loved enough to be disciplined to know and do what is right!
jqologist 3 months ago
@jqologist It didn`t save you from choosing to join a weird religious cult though ? Perhaps they should have really kicked your head in....
ilikezappa 3 months ago
@ilikezappa Your response is emotional & laced with anger, "kicked your head in..." Ultimately this is not a 'cult' yet an opportunity for you to know your Creator through Jesus Christ. Ask God to forgive you because we're all sinners and believe in Jesus Christ to provide for you in EVERY AREA of your life. I'm just sharing the living Hope which saved me, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful & righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1John 1:9
jqologist 2 months ago
@jqologist Glad it works for you . I see no compelling evidence in its favour,and consider promoting superstition instead of rational enquiry as harmful to humanity ,but ,hey , that`s just me.......
ilikezappa 2 months ago
Violence brings more violence. Every developmental psychologist and pediatrician out there will tell you that spanking leads to sexual issues, mental problems, and lower I.Q. There are plenty of studies to back all of this. Personally, I think I will listen to the child specialists instead of a centuries-old and poorly translated book. This is just people using religion as an excuse for child abuse and power-play. It insults the name of God to inflict pain on a child (an act of evil) in His name
strawberrymutt 3 months ago 2
You can discipline without actually hitting a kid. According to almost every psychologist I have heard on TV or talked to in real life hitting kids makes them more aggressive as they get older. Today's kids suck because their parents are kids themselves. My parents disciplined me with hard labor, making me dig ditches and put up brick fences over the summer if I got bad grades, clean the vents if I mouthed off, etc. Worked for me and I will likely do it for my kids too.
Cajaquarius 3 months ago 3
@Cajaquarius Psychology vs. the Bible? Gee tough one... Not. Spare the rod and spoil the child. That means discipline should be given. It will NOT harm the child to receive a swat on the rear. It is only harmful, when done in excess or in anger from the parent.
speedy5662 2 months ago 7
@speedy5662 The rod is symbolic, like much of the bible. I doubt your God wants you to beat your child half to death with an iron rod for lying or getting a bad grade unless he is evil. Let me ask you something; how do you guys decide which parts of the bible to take literally or the parts you take to be symbolically? Clearly you take the rod portion literally but I assume in the book of Revelations when it mentions Jesus having swords come from his mouth, you assume that symbolic.
Cajaquarius 2 months ago 3
@Cajaquarius, because we do. it's obvious. ever heard of empathy? it is like that.
Sudhish86 1 week ago
@Cajaquarius My hand is the rod and I'm not as ignorant as those who seem so judgmental to giving a child A swat on their butt, when needed. You "ASS-u-ME" too much. I swat with my open palm and it leaves a red mark for 30 seconds. My children know how to give respect to everyone and they do it daily. I look around and couldn't begin to tell you the numbers of spoiled brats that have never gotten swatted or had parents that were competent enough to even begin to discipline them.
speedy5662 1 week ago
@speedy5662 You hit because you are ignorant and don't know any better. It doesn't help your kids.
strawberryseason 2 days ago
@strawberryseason The ignorance is on you. You have not read that I don't HIT, I slap. there is a difference so pay attention, because I'm not going to reply to your lame way of thinking, I pray that if you have children you will learn how to discipline them accordingly, because they are going to turn out to be more scum in society otherwise.
speedy5662 2 days ago
@speedy5662 You are trying to justify your aggression as "good" for your chlidren, but in fact, hitting your kids does not teach right from wrong. It only makes them angry and sad inside.
The most well-behaved and happy children are those who have parents who have taken the time to learn how to discipline (teach) in ways that maintain the relationship between the parent and child. Spanking causes a profound breach in the parent-child relationship.
strawberryseason 2 days ago
@Cajaquarius he's not saying "Beat the child half to death" lol...and what's with "you guys" you're generalizing way too much . You need to read the Bible because it's clear you simply don't understand the text. You have a wrong view of God...."God disciplines everyone he loves." God uses suffering to discipline his children..are you hearing what JP's saying? he's right on target.
cmdesign01 6 days ago
@speedy5662 Point is, the rod represents punishment and correction and those things can be achieved better with non-violent means. The only reason to hit a child is to take your anger out on him for what he did. There is no other reason. You can make all the excuses you like but, at the end of the day, when offered non-violent alternatives you chose the path of violence.
Cajaquarius 2 months ago 2
@speedy5662 I am an early childhood teacher, and sorry to inform you sunshine, but the research is pretty conclusive, it DOES harm a child.
Griffin9857 2 months ago
@speedy5662 "Spare the rod and spoil the child' is NOT in the Bible. It is from a 17th century poem. Learn your facts. Jesus did not advocate hitting children.
strawberryseason 1 week ago
Scientific research has shown spanking a child has no different effect than not spanking. To the person who said if you do not spank your child than you do not love them, I would hate to be in your SATANIC sadistic home. If I knew you I would throw you in jail. Criminal!
EvertonFooty 3 months ago
@EvertonFooty O rly? If you look at america today spoiled ignorant winy kids are on the rise.
gilbert4321 3 months ago
gauss.unh.edu/~mas2/CP24.pdf - This is just one study linking spanking (corporal punishment) to anti-social behavior in children. Hopefully "I know how much is good for my child" helps you sleep at night.
VoteBK 3 months ago
Of fucking course God's going to be pro-spanking. Honestly, if we're going by his example I'm pretty sure I can crucify my kids.
"Spanking is so easy and quick" this guy says. Since when was something "easy," and "quick" the way God wants anything accomplished?
VoteBK 3 months ago
@VoteBK Looks like this video went way over your head sir. Try watching it again with a little less presupposition.
santisevenX 3 months ago
@santisevenX I already have ipecac if I want to force myself to vomit, thanks.
Anyhoo, you should really look up the statistics on spanked-versus-non-spanked kids. You'd think if God was cool with it, they wouldn't be so fucked up psychologically when they grow up. I'm sure you "turned out just fine" save for that cognitive dissonance affliction and the unwarranted intellectual superiority issue you seem to have.
Welp, see ya!
VoteBK 3 months ago
@VoteBK Statistics can be manipulated to suit anyone's fancy if we're honest here. So don't throw around statistics like they're these self-evident axioms of truth. Besides, many reports also admit that the data collected was mostly by memory recall on behalf of the participants. Spanking on occasion has shown to be beneficial and that is the method I agree with. Constant spanking loses its meaning and can lead to problems psychologically, emotionally etc. But make the differentiation.
santisevenX 3 months ago
@santisevenX "statistics can be manipulated to suit anyone's fancy," the last refuge of people who ignore the world around them in order to facilitate the worldview of one man's interpretation of the bible (the "rod" of a shepherd is not used to strike a sheep, merely guide it).
VoteBK 3 months ago
@VoteBK It isn't a refuge sir. The blind and ignorant acceptance of statistics without finding out the parameters, factors involved in getting the data is common place in a society who has rejected critical thinking for emotional and subjective. Like I said certain studies in the "world around me" would show that occasional spanking is actually beneficial.
santisevenX 3 months ago
@santisevenX - Where are these peer reviewed scientific studies? I am in the University and all you have is hocus pocus talk. I believe in God and love God, but it is time people like you grow up because you are no different than a bully. I can guarantee the children that got good grades were not the ones who their parents beat them till they made them tear up.
EvertonFooty 3 months ago
@EvertonFooty What does being in university have to do with anything? You don't have to be smart to go to college, that example clearly being yourself if you are misrepresenting me so poorly and maligning the integrity of the topic. I never said "I believe in God and love God". I do both but it wasn't said. Your the one saying you can guarantee something you really can't guarantee at all! You clearly have no knowledge of this topic. Your really just critical of religion, not spanking I can tell.
santisevenX 3 months ago
@santisevenX - If you "love" God you would not resort to ad hominem. And you clearly are an ignorant man, the Universities are where most scientific discoviries are made. Next time you are terminally ill or have cancer, go to Mr. Piper, I am sure he will pray the demons out of you.
And I am not critical of religion, but stupidity and abusive monsters such as yourself. I was spanked and my father told me it was the most useless thing a parent can do and physically taking on him.
EvertonFooty 3 months ago
@santisevenX - You however get your hard on watching children crying, you evil disgusting person.
EvertonFooty 3 months ago
@santisevenX - And you clearly are not an educated or smart individual because at university you have to prove what you say to scientists who are top of their field, scientists who give your poor abused children medicine. Ignorant fool.
EvertonFooty 3 months ago
@EvertonFooty Haha. Your response literally made me laugh. All your comments are so off topic and irrelevant. You commenting on issues that spanking is far from, like scientific discoveries and medicine. Don't accuse me of ad hominem and then do it yourself.
santisevenX 3 months ago
@santisevenX - Of course they make you laugh because you have the IQ of a chicken. The only thing you know to do is beat your kids.
EvertonFooty 3 months ago
@EvertonFooty Ok. Evenfooty. I think we're done here.
santisevenX 3 months ago
love that " children have little fat bottoms so they can be whopped" good stuff
andrewmarcus91 4 months ago 2
another great response from John Piper! Great stuff, the bible can be applied to every aspect of life. We should stop thinking we know whats best and acknowledge that God who made everything knows what he's talking about and why he asks us to do certain things
akitolover 4 months ago 9
I don't believe that spanking is wrong, however, I also don't believe that you should spank a child when you are angry. When you spank a child when you are angry, you can sometimes (accidentally) inflect your anger into the child's pain.
clayne819 4 months ago
@clayne819 very true! i also believe that you need to explain to the child why they are being spanked
sincerelynlove 4 months ago
Piper: "Children have little fat bottoms so that they can be whopped."
...Uh, that is some funny logic there John. John does not address the excessive abusive spanking that is a part of some Bible belt fundamentalist cultures like the one I grew up in. I wonder if John is even aware of the existence of abusive and controlling parents.
mikeeoyou2bify 5 months ago
@mikeeoyou2bify discipline and abuse to different things. I have a girl who is almost 2 (brother not her parent). I have 2 spank her, bad as hell becuz she thinks there r no effects for her throwing stuff and putting up a fit, and she has the most sense in the world. Kids arent dumb, it doesnt lead 2 abuse. Abuse is when u beat ur kids becuz u wish to or r angry. Kids understand the concept of RULES! Had foster kids who r retarded and they get it also, and they end up loving the hell out you
starbattle226 4 months ago
"the law says: spare the rod"... the law also says to stone disobedient children to death.
medisue 5 months ago 2
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Brynnium 4 months ago
It can't be about physical contact. Or else you'd never give your child the Heimlich when it was necessary. So it must be about the spirit of the physical contact (the actual substance of the interaction). If my dad hit me for no reason, I'd be confused and scared all the time. But I never felt unloved when my parents spanked me. It was more like getting a Heimlich maneuver.
stadler72 5 months ago 3
This is my experience too (not that that has any value of itself).
I've tried both, but spanking works best.
When I spanked the child, he was loving and friendly 5 minutes after EVERY TIME - seriously, no word of a lie !
When I sent them away, they could not speak and show no love for hours and hours !
God knows what's best for us.
14dicken 5 months ago
violence begats violence. that is all.
boxofcigars 6 months ago
@boxofcigars wrong. Violence is a motivation to not use violence. Do u think a people wud start wars with nations becuz they know they can get nuked? Y do u think America survives? Violence unlike theory stops violence its the abuse of violence. When a person knows what violence leads 2 they will stop it but when they dont suffer they dont give a shit.
starbattle226 4 months ago
@starbattle226 violence begats violence means that violence creates more violence.
boxofcigars 4 months ago
@boxofcigars and it doesnt work like that. through violence Libya has peace right now and u dont know how things work do u
starbattle226 4 months ago
I love this!!! " Children have fat bottoms so they can be wopped"
Pastor John Piper is a legend. I got spanked by my parents and love them for it. The world seems to confuse discipline with being cruel. Cruelty = Unbiblical, Spanking = Biblical.
maidenshazza 7 months ago
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Spanking a Child is primary for leazy people.If you can't bring out the best of your children talking and,'educating them it will not happen with spanking. What about spanking the parents becouse they are not able to educate their children?Hoe's the adult?Hoe knows better?
Imirror1 7 months ago
209jaedoe@.YOU ACHIEVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SPANKING YOUR CHILD.Maybe your child will develop a FEAR of you but not RESPECT.Maybe if you want to hurt you child ,you may as well waterboard him.What about that ?
Imirror1 8 months ago
THE bible says,stone your child to death
Imirror1 8 months ago
@Imirror1 That's the Old Testament. Times have changed between the Old Testament and the New.
DOBANN13 7 months ago
@Imirror1 The New Testament fulfills the OT which is what Piper described here.
Pacifica74 7 months ago
My parents spanked me and I'm do glad they did. They are my parents and they knew me they knew how to discipline me. I needed spankings. I thank God for every one of them. Truth be known I probably didn't get enough. Spankings saved me from hell and jail. Now I spank mine I don't play this talking And time out trash I have boys and they are wild they need spanking. LOL they will thank me one day.
claressa98 8 months ago
1.08 he says "Jesus believed the bible" that my friend is comedy gold. Also the fact that he could give us a "whole theology on spanking" kinda weirds me out.
pweek 8 months ago
People that think spankings or any kind of violence can have a good long term effect clearly doesn't know what spirituality is or how it works.
davluc1 9 months ago
If you let your children act like animals they will act like animals
bobbyraejohnson 9 months ago
Spanking will not spur a change in character. If you treat children like animals, they will act like animals.
krgking926 9 months ago
All violence in any amount for any reason always without exception has a negative effect on the spirit regardless of how justified or necessary it may seem to the carnal mind. Every great person throughout history that has understood spirituality to any extent has always spoke out against violence. Spiritual energies simply do not work that way.
davluc1 9 months ago
2:36-3:20
b1foschiefs 9 months ago
(cont'd) parent who sends their child to their room for an indefinite amount of time is being just as lazy as a parent who spanks their child without a discussion/positive end. As I understand it, time outs are most effective when they're done with a time limit. Any disciplinary act should be consistent and appropriate to the wrong-doing. If a parent is consistent, the child will be just as happy as the child who received the spanking as described in the video.
catluva2285 9 months ago
First, I have to say I'm not completely against spanking, but I am against the idea of it (or any discipline method) perceived as being "quick and easy." True discipline is never "easy", and this is precisely why a lot of negative outcomes can come out of parents who are not following through on whatever their desired method is whether it is spanking, time outs, etc. I agree with the idea of measured, appropriate disciplinary acts, but I think his description of a (to be continued)
catluva2285 9 months ago
So, where is the line drawn between disciplining your child by spanking and child abuse? I believe in spanking; don't get me wrong. I was spanked when I was a kid. But my parents would always do it with abuse. They never gave me a hug and told me they loved me after they did it.
Sup750 9 months ago 2
Where is the line drawn between disciplining your child by spanking and letting it turn into child abuse?
Sup750 9 months ago
@Sup750 there is no line except in the mind of each individual. The imaginary line between abuse and discipline is not in the Bible. ANd the law is very vague using such terms as " within reason" I say if you want to know how much is to much first do it to your spouse and see how they respond !
davluc1 9 months ago
@livin4jesus0225 if you dont mind tell us your discipline methods.
moejobe 10 months ago
@livin4jesus0225 a child has freewill. everyone does. psychological damage will only come to the child if that child is properly being demonstrated on what is wrong or right. you shouldn't have to spank the kid all the time for every single wrong, thats where we find grace. Children slowly learn how to live lovingly. They learn like adults learn. plus if the Word says its wrong to not punish your child by the rod than theres a reason for for it. I dont like doing it sometimes, but it is loving.
EvangeMani 10 months ago
I agree that children should be spanked. I definately do not support a parent taking out their frustration on their child. Their has to be a balance, and unfortunately alot of folks today grew up with a sour taste in their mouth, because their was no possitive affirmation after the act of discipline.
One side says beat em'! and the other says dont touch em'!, while in the middle there is the disipline and affirmative love needed to guide the child into a healthy parent/child relationship.
wkialyleiam 1 year ago
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" - 2 Tim 3:16.
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." - Prov 23:13.
"Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty" - Job 5:17 (see Revelation 1:7-9).
HISservant21 1 year ago
that's why America has rotten, spoiled, incompetent, disobedient , disrespectful children. Because they wouldn't spank them and asked silly questions like these.
str8sushi 1 year ago
Totally Agree.
USNavyman09 1 year ago
his chunky thigh, lol
slyer72 1 year ago 13
@slyer72 would've never noticed this without you pointing it out.
MrHappiness777 3 months ago
IF YOU DONT SPANK A CHILD AND DISCIPLINE THEM FOR THEIR DISOBEDIENCE THEN YOU HATE YOUR CHILDREN. THATS THE PROBLEM WITH OUR CULTURE TODAY THEY NEGLECT THE LOVING DISCIPLINE THAT OUR FATHER JESUS CHRIST HAS ON US.HE DISCIPLINES US BECAUSE HE LOVES US! NO WONDER YOU HAVE KIDS TELLING THEIR MOM' F U' AND SPOILED AMERICAN KIDS WANTING TO COMMIT SUICIDE BECAUSE THEIR MOM TAKES AWAY THEIR I PHONE! WE NEED TO CORRECT OUR CHILDREN BECAUSE WE LOVE THEM PERIOD!! GOOD ANSWER PIPER!
209jaedoe 1 year ago 30
@209jaedoe what is your definition of spirituality?
guidav123 1 year ago
@209jaedoe physically hurting a child is a barbaric and lazy way of guiding a child's mind. Teach them peace, show the SELF discipline. Show them how to be selfless. BEATING your children will cause them to HATE you and they will grow up being rebellious, obviously your kids are still young becuase once they get old enough to think for themselves they will remember what you did to them and they will NOT love you and they will not follow your corrupt religion.
charliepossenriede 1 year ago
@charliepossenriede
there are christians who do not believe in spanking and there is strong evidence against it within the bible.
the rod they speak of was to guide..not hit. and the child is actually supposed to be teenager. this is if you realize the hebrew words in the old testament. also, i know many children who were spanked and grew up horrible. some children never hit and grew up great. so i agree with you on most of what you say.
saphiredewdrop 1 year ago
@saphiredewdrop Just curious, is that the only scripture you're going to use to support the claim of not spanking a child? or rather paraphrase. :-)
wkialyleiam 1 year ago
@wkialyleiam
The youtube boxes are small so I can't write everything, so I try to at least make one point. This conversation is a bit old. But, please, do research and come to your own conclusion. I have already come to mine. Thanks. :)
saphiredewdrop 1 year ago
@saphiredewdrop :-)
wkialyleiam 11 months ago
@saphiredewdrop So, what is your conclusion, just curious. I'm interested to hear. And what homework were you pointing me out to exactly? Because for sure I don't mind doing my "homework". :-) Thanks much, have a great day.
wkialyleiam 11 months ago
@wkialyleiam
My personal conclusion is that spanking shouldn't be a form of discipline. I found some websites that broke down the languages of the Bible in the past and nowhere does it say to spank a child. You will have to google and search because I read them some months ago. It was very interesting and really showed me that the Bible should really be studied in its original form to get the best understanding. not only with the spanking issue.
saphiredewdrop 11 months ago
@saphiredewdrop What Bible were you reading? The Bible definatively states that parents should spank their children otherwise they will be spoiled. I honest believe you only wrote that comment to cause confusion here. I dont think you have done any research on the subject. I believe your aim is to cause confusion, distort the truth and lead people astray.
OEllie25 11 months ago
@OEllie25
I have done research and the research goes to the original hebrew and greek words. Because of my research I have come to MY conclusion. YOU do NOT have to follow my conclusion, but don't say I am here causing confusion and show disrespect to MY belief. I also clearly told others to do their own research. So stop with your lying about me leading people astray and starting confusion. Stop self projecting, you come off as the liar.
saphiredewdrop 11 months ago
@charliepossenriede
also, sorry for such a small paraphrasing. i hope i havent confused you too much. but the information is a lot to fill the tiny youtube box. lol.
saphiredewdrop 1 year ago
@209jaedoe youre saying you hate your children if you dont spank them? I believe 100% in discipline but your logic is distorted
JohnWhiting21 3 months ago 2
@JohnWhiting21 Im only getting my info from the bible buddy ; he who spares the rod on his child hates his child'' proverbs 13:24 so are you saying the bible is distorted? you betta do your homework friend then talk theology
209jaedoe 2 months ago
@doctorh2005
giving that biblical truth!!
continue brother
continue giving scripture...
proverbs 13:24!!
you ALL needa here vodie bauchum speak on
raising children!!!
-love God hate sin
1glory2God3 1 year ago
question: we need to use a rod then. If it isn't a cultural issue, it isn't a cultural issue. Next time I'm at Lifeway I will ask the store-attendant, you know, the one who wears a pair of golden I'm-pro-life-baby-feet on her lapelle - if the child-spanking rods are on sale. Then I will go look for a rod, which I will find next to the kids' Bibles, whose covers have Jesus holding kids on his lap! :) Piper is ostensibly... huh... what's the word I'm looking for... creepy. That's it. Creepy.
lusoamericana 1 year ago
There is no word for ‘spirituality’ in Hebrew, and no concept of Spirituality in Judaism. The primary meaning of ruach is ‘wind’.
atterolevad 1 year ago
@atterolevad
/// There is no word for ‘spirituality’ in Hebrew, and no concept of Spirituality in Judaism. The primary meaning of ruach is ‘wind’. ///
Just because there may be no word called "spirituality" in Hebrew, doesnt mean they werent conscience of a spiritual meaning or spiritual reality! Like I said... HEBREWS 11:10,13 says the opposite
Christ even said that ABRAHAM new the spiritual reality....Abraham REJOICED THAT HE WOULD SEE MY DAY...." (John8:56)
doctorh2005 1 hour ago
doctorh2005 1 year ago
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@atterolevad
/// no concept of Spirituality in Judaism. ///
The Apostle Paul (who was an expert in the Law) said "For WE KNOW that the Law is SPIRITUAL".
If you went up to any true Jew in the Old Testament, he wouldve said the same thing - and I'm not talking about the Pharisees who TWISTED the Law to mean the opposite - I'm talking about the TRUE Old Testament Jew.
doctorh2005 1 year ago
@doctorh2005 are you a member of the westboro baptist church? if not you should check them out you would fit right in !
atterolevad 1 year ago
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@atterolevad
/// are you a member of the westboro baptist church? if not you should check them out you would fit right in ! ///
I'll also give you something to check out....
Google search the words "Ad Hominem" - coz you just commited it.
doctorh2005 1 year ago
Comment removed
OneLessEvolutionist 1 year ago
and now, brothers and sisters, let's all go read Leviticus 20 and do what it says, because Jesus endorses it. Let's stone and burn people who break the law, until the law is accomplished... How this man proposes his ideas as the ideas of Jesus can only be because of his arrogance. Why not punch the child and create a black eye or break the child's arm? Where does the Bible say to just swat the bottom? Oh wait, Piper said it... The way he imposes his culture as biblical is unacceptable.
lusoamericana 1 year ago
@lusoamericana
/// and now, brothers and sisters, let's all go read Leviticus 20 and do what it says... Let's stone and burn people who break the law.. ///
You obviously havent read the O.T. in its entirity... Those Laws were never meant for the general public! They were only meant for the "MAGISTRATES/JUDGES" to carry out - Read for yourself - DEUTERONOMY 19:18,20
/// Why not punch the child and create a black eye or break the child's arm? ///
Because EXOD.21:26-27 disagrees!
doctorh2005 1 year ago
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@lusoamericana
/// The way he imposes his culture as biblical is unacceptable. //
Huh???
doctorh2005 1 year ago
Why does man's law(the government) and the law of christ have to be seperate? Because the government is of a carnal mind knows not the things of christ or things of the spirit. Under the new covenant ,christians are held to the laws of Love, peace, forgiveness and mercy. spiritual laws that the government by it's very nature can not rule by.
atterolevad 1 year ago
@atterolevad
//// christians are held to the laws of... forgiveness ////
Christ says "If your brother sins, REBUKE him", and IF HE REPENTS forgive him" (LUKE 17:3)
Listen,
God has granted parents to discipline their children "AS SEEMS BEST TO THEM" (Heb.12:10), within the confines of Scripture.
doctorh2005 1 year ago
@atterolevad right flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. if you are led by the spirit you are no longer under the law galations 5:17-18
guidav123 1 year ago
@atterolevad correct ! Galations 5:14 says that ALL the law is fulfilled in one word(love) even in this:Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
guidav123 1 year ago
The carnal mind is an enemy to GOd romans 8:7 for it knows not the things of the spirit. The government is of a carnal mind there for it has to rule the only way it knows how -by force. This is exceptable by GOd for the evil people to be controlled by the evil government for the sake of society. However God's children are held to another standard walking after the things of the spirit handling all they do spiritually and not carnally. Corporal punishment is carnal !
atterolevad 1 year ago
@atterolevad
/// The carnal mind... knows not the things of the spirit. ///
And? God even sovereignly controls the "carnal minds" of men to move them to their every decision - PROVERBS 21:1 and GENESIS 20:6 and EZRA 1:1 and REVELATION 17:17.
//// God's children are held to another standard walking after the things of the spirit ////
Paul said "Shall I come to you with a ROD?"(1Cor.4:21)
and
"It was TO SPARE YOU that I refrained from coming..." 2Cor.1:23, 2:1-2, 12:20, 13:2,10
doctorh2005 1 year ago
@atterolevad
//// Corporal punishment is carnal ! ////
Where in the Bible does it say that?? Unless you can find me a direct verse you are adding to Scripture.
//// christians are held to the laws of Love, ////
Parents spanking their disobedient child is a VERY loving thing to do - just as it says in PROVERBS 13:24 - "Whoever spares the rod HATES his child..."
God has granted parents to discipline their children, as it says in Heb.12:10, "AS SEEMS BEST TO THEM".
doctorh2005 1 year ago
@atterolevad All through the new testiment there is a comparison being done between the carnal and the spiritual sometimes refered to as worldyness and Godlyness showing how the two never really go together. the carnal is only an illusion and under it all spiritual truth exist. Handling something carnally with totall disregard of the effects it is having on spiritual energies is the problem we call sin. Such actions is poison to the soul .
guidav123 1 year ago
The old testiment people had no concept of spiritual things.this is why God's law and man's law was intertwined ,dealing with people in the carnal sence. When christ delivered us from the law of moses, God's law and man's law seperated. Though GOd allows the Government to use force for the controlling of the guilty for the protection of the innocent it is still being done by a secular,non-christian carnal minded government that knows nothing of the things of the spirit..unlike God's childtren.
atterolevad 1 year ago
@atterolevad
//// The old testiment people had no concept of spiritual things ////
RUBBISH. That part is refuted by HEBREWS 11:10,13 - "For Abraham was looking to the city...whose designer and builder is God..... These all died in faith, not having recerved the things promised, but GREETED THEM FROM AFAR.... The desired a better country, that is, a HEAVENLY one."
Christ even said that ABRAHAM new the spiritual reality....Abraham REJOICED THAT HE WOULD SEE MY DAY...." (John8:56)
doctorh2005 1 year ago
@doctorh2005 I agree with guidav123 your just to far gone to waist time arguing with.
atterolevad 1 year ago