(cont.) You can't really compare the life styles of captive and wild orcas. It's a completely different perspective. In the wild, wild orcas almost never have close contact with humans. In captivity these orcas are exposed to humans every day. Logically, incidents between orcas and humans are more likely to occur in captivity, and that cannot account of the fact that orcas are under stress. If incidents occur, it's usually the trainer's fault, however.
@roflcopterXP Orcas have just been recently cited with surfers and dolphins swim within human range quite often.
I still do not see how one can justify putting an orca, which swims on average 100 miles per day, in a tank... and *not* expect it to feel some sort of stress. And if they are put in tanks, how do you justify making them do tricks and spins?
@roflcopterXP And yes, they do need some sort of stimulation, but it should be done in a way that it would happen in the wild. I still don't see how an orca needs to come completely out of the water and lay down on land and arch itself into a banana-like fashion. It's all just for entertainment.
@HersheysKisses637 Sadly, it is all about entertainment. That's the reason why cetaceans are trained to do tricks in the first place. That is also why orcas were captured to begin with. I do agree with you that they do not belong in captivity, but at most facilities they are provided the best care that money can buy. Tricks are not the only form of stimulation orcas receive, they're constantly given toys and various reinforcements.
Hmm let's see. I have a few things to say about all this.
I'd like to point out that orcas do have the freedom to breed with whomever they want to and they are never forced to perform. Taking the whales into captivity was a bad choice, but that cannot be undone. You cannot successfully release an orca whale. Also orcas dying in their prime years of age is nothing new. In the wild, many orcas do not make it past 30 years of age. Remember that life expectancy is not equal to average life span.
@roflcopterXP Their average life span for males is around 30-40 years old, but their life expectancy is around 50. For females, on average it is around 50-60, but they can live to be 80-90.
I'm sorry if I was unclear in my speech- I do not agree with releasing whales that are already in captivity. Instead it would be better to stop capturing them and decreasing their performance level.
Tilikum was one whale that was kept there originally just for breeding purposes- and he is not the only one.
@HersheysKisses637 I'd like to see where you read about those average life spans, but I'll send you a link of where I base my statement from.
Orcas are no longer captured, although I don't know about in the near future. Captive orcas are dying faster than they can breed.
Those orcas are free to escape from humans, these captive orcas have no option. With constant interactions with humans accidents/incidents are almost sure to occur.
I agree. I'm just saying that the best thing to do now is to keep them captive, but to take better care of them. That's all really we can hope for. It just really saddens me that these orcas are dying so quickly in captivity.
@HersheysKisses637 I know many people that regularly visit facilities that house captive orcas, and I can vouch that they are cared for very well. The only problem I have with SeaWorld is how they separate mothers and calves for breeding purposes. Regarding performing, from orcas' point of view it's not that bad, and some of SeaWorld's orcas even enjoy learning new tricks. Performing is an important part of a captive orca's stimulation and helps with exercise all the while.
@roflcopterXP Personally, I still don't like the whole performing aspect of it. You can make them do tricks and stimulate them, yeah, but it just feels unnatural to me to make them do tricks in a tank in front of a stadium filled with people. Who knows what they're thinking? I still love the shows, but what I'm saying is that I just feel guilty and sad... I wish it had never happened in the first place. I'd rather they be on display than be in a tank as circus performers.
@HersheysKisses637 The fact that they're being confined to these tanks is unnatural. Remember they are there to make money, and people enjoy seeing them perform. Rest assured, if they don't want to perform(or do anything in general the trainers ask them), they won't. Sometimes this is the only way people can see these animals, although in a perfect world, they would have never been captured to begin with.
(cont.) You can't really compare the life styles of captive and wild orcas. It's a completely different perspective. In the wild, wild orcas almost never have close contact with humans. In captivity these orcas are exposed to humans every day. Logically, incidents between orcas and humans are more likely to occur in captivity, and that cannot account of the fact that orcas are under stress. If incidents occur, it's usually the trainer's fault, however.
roflcopterXP 1 year ago
@roflcopterXP Orcas have just been recently cited with surfers and dolphins swim within human range quite often.
I still do not see how one can justify putting an orca, which swims on average 100 miles per day, in a tank... and *not* expect it to feel some sort of stress. And if they are put in tanks, how do you justify making them do tricks and spins?
HersheysKisses637 1 year ago
@roflcopterXP And yes, they do need some sort of stimulation, but it should be done in a way that it would happen in the wild. I still don't see how an orca needs to come completely out of the water and lay down on land and arch itself into a banana-like fashion. It's all just for entertainment.
HersheysKisses637 1 year ago
@HersheysKisses637 Sadly, it is all about entertainment. That's the reason why cetaceans are trained to do tricks in the first place. That is also why orcas were captured to begin with. I do agree with you that they do not belong in captivity, but at most facilities they are provided the best care that money can buy. Tricks are not the only form of stimulation orcas receive, they're constantly given toys and various reinforcements.
roflcopterXP 1 year ago
Hmm let's see. I have a few things to say about all this.
I'd like to point out that orcas do have the freedom to breed with whomever they want to and they are never forced to perform. Taking the whales into captivity was a bad choice, but that cannot be undone. You cannot successfully release an orca whale. Also orcas dying in their prime years of age is nothing new. In the wild, many orcas do not make it past 30 years of age. Remember that life expectancy is not equal to average life span.
roflcopterXP 1 year ago
@roflcopterXP Their average life span for males is around 30-40 years old, but their life expectancy is around 50. For females, on average it is around 50-60, but they can live to be 80-90.
I'm sorry if I was unclear in my speech- I do not agree with releasing whales that are already in captivity. Instead it would be better to stop capturing them and decreasing their performance level.
Tilikum was one whale that was kept there originally just for breeding purposes- and he is not the only one.
HersheysKisses637 1 year ago
@HersheysKisses637 I'd like to see where you read about those average life spans, but I'll send you a link of where I base my statement from.
Orcas are no longer captured, although I don't know about in the near future. Captive orcas are dying faster than they can breed.
Those orcas are free to escape from humans, these captive orcas have no option. With constant interactions with humans accidents/incidents are almost sure to occur.
roflcopterXP 1 year ago
@roflcopterXP
I agree. I'm just saying that the best thing to do now is to keep them captive, but to take better care of them. That's all really we can hope for. It just really saddens me that these orcas are dying so quickly in captivity.
HersheysKisses637 1 year ago
@HersheysKisses637 I know many people that regularly visit facilities that house captive orcas, and I can vouch that they are cared for very well. The only problem I have with SeaWorld is how they separate mothers and calves for breeding purposes. Regarding performing, from orcas' point of view it's not that bad, and some of SeaWorld's orcas even enjoy learning new tricks. Performing is an important part of a captive orca's stimulation and helps with exercise all the while.
roflcopterXP 1 year ago
@roflcopterXP Personally, I still don't like the whole performing aspect of it. You can make them do tricks and stimulate them, yeah, but it just feels unnatural to me to make them do tricks in a tank in front of a stadium filled with people. Who knows what they're thinking? I still love the shows, but what I'm saying is that I just feel guilty and sad... I wish it had never happened in the first place. I'd rather they be on display than be in a tank as circus performers.
HersheysKisses637 1 year ago
@HersheysKisses637 The fact that they're being confined to these tanks is unnatural. Remember they are there to make money, and people enjoy seeing them perform. Rest assured, if they don't want to perform(or do anything in general the trainers ask them), they won't. Sometimes this is the only way people can see these animals, although in a perfect world, they would have never been captured to begin with.
roflcopterXP 1 year ago
@roflcopterXP It's the making money part that bothers me the most. And alas, it is not a perfect world. Humans are greedy.
HersheysKisses637 1 year ago