Goldstone "Retraction" Israel's War On Gaza Part 2 Rashid Khalidi, Q & A

[rodeo179]

NYT's Richard Cohen agrees that Stone caved into pressure.

[rodeo179]

great Q & A. thanks

[thefastshuffle]

Fink, you're the man. Jews should be proud of this guy. I love Chomsky, but Finkelstein is special. You just want to give the guy a hug.

[bfoaliali]

@thefastshuffle wait...you dont want to hug Chomsky?

[g0ldb3rg3r]

israel is an illegal and Aparthide state and has nothing to do with Judaism despite it's filthy lies.

[g0ldb3rg3r]

Amazing the filth the zionists spew when they're exposed,

[g0ldb3rg3r]

amazing the Filth zionists come out with when they're exposed. But then israel was built on Terror and Hatred, so why be suprised

[Uncle99B]

Here we go again. Poor Israel getting picked on when they are so good to the arabs. Must we get this comment at every discussion of the situation.

Whiny god damn MFers

[g0ldb3rg3r]

Isnt it funny that zionists living in Occupied Palestine (that are part of the problem) try and defend their Nazi government's Facist regime. No suprise there.

[phooey108]

what do you think about samantha powers? that guy was a clown.

[starcatcher2222]

How were the 44% of the population under the age of 14 "driven out of Palestine" in 1948. Why did the Egyptian govt. herd these Arabs grandparents into camps and deny them the rights of other Egyptians while annexing them.

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

read.

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid Read what, Arab claims that the Jews have caused their problems when they are simply political pawns of the Arab league, If there was no UNRWA there would be few Palestinian refugees if the standards of all the other worlds refugees were applied to them. Trying to drive the Jews out in 48 then leaving relying on Arab armys to complete the task backfired I haven't tears for the 800,000 Arabs displaced in 1948 63 years later Israel absorbed a greater # of Jews driven from Arab countrys

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

It's really terrible that you want to place the blame on the original inhabitants who lived (and some, still have lived) on that land for hundreds of years. That includes Jews. And blaming the Arabs. They were forced from their land, and spinning it is not going to change it for us, and definitely not for the millions of refugees.

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid "If the Arabs lost as much land as they claimed Israel would be the size of Texas" this was written in the Atlantic monthly in 1961 by an objective reporter. "Millions of refugees?" The spin is a political spin that continues to classifty people as refugees 2 or even 4 generations after the fact. This is an Arab Leaugue and UNRWA created problem. How many refugees who are Jewish are refugees? 0 they are Israelis The Arabs should get their own house in order that will change it for you

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid Baghdad was 1/4 Jewish in 1948, Cairo, Damascus................ expelled 1000000 Jews to Israel the 800000 Arabs who became your millions of refugees simply are not an Israeli problem, no one can roll the dice and lose then expect pity from the casino of world events. TOUGH FUCKING LUCK. My tears are for those who have died in the incessant wars the Arabs continue to wage.

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

Nobody has defended the other Arab regimes. Like the lecturers said: this lucture is about Israel. Your tears are for Israel, and nobody else. Again, the blatant discrimination. And soon, you will be calling names. It's the last defense.

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid Blatant discrimination of course i live in Jerusalem and will fight to keep it a united city, Not out of hatred for Arabs most of whom living in this city wish to remain a part of Israel rather than a part of a PLO state. The very fact that one does not hold the Arab regimes to account for their mistreatment of palestinians is a defense of the Arab league and is blatant discrimination against the Jewish state

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

Nobody forgets the Arab regimes, and there are some terrible rights abuses there. That has nothing to do, and is no defense, of Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians. Where is your evidence that most Arabs in Jerusalem want to remain in Israel? It is a bit racist to call all Arabs the same, just since they speak the same language (by the way, they don't - I was in Marrakesh last weekend, and their Arabic is not understandable by, say, Saudi Arabians).

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid Israels treatment of the Arabs is astonishingly liberal in the face of the violence they have been waging on the Jews for 81 years. Arabs are not all the same of course but their is not or has never been any distinct national entity called Palestinian. Arabs wishing to live in Arab countries have 22 choices if the Arab league allowed them a choice Arabs who wish to live peacefully under a sovereign Jewish state should have the choice as well. The evidence isfrom a recent poll by the PA

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

"Astonishing" is your opinion. in the face of the violence the West Bank and Gaza has faced (1,100 civilians, 300 children dead in the last "war"), they have been very restrained in their response (we can both probably agree that it is because they lack an actual army like Israel). Arabs may be an ethnic group, but that is still racist - like saying Africans have a whole continent to live in, a very offensive thing to say. And you are saying it.

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

"Astonishing" is your opinion. The Palestinians (not general Arabs) have been restrained in the face of the violence from Israel (1,100 civilians, 300 children killed in the last "war"). Yet only Palestinians promote terror - were those 300 killed children any less terrorised? You still call all Arabs the same, like saying all Africans have a whole continent to live in - a very offensive thing to say, and you are saying it. Palestinians have a national identity, just as Jews.

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid "The Palestinian people does not exist... in reality there is no difference between Jordanian, Palestinians,Syrians and Lebanese... only for political and tactical reasons do we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism" (Zahir Mussein PLO executive council 31Mar1977) It seems that this National identity is a fabrication according to the PLO so how is repeating these Arab leaders own words "A very offensive thing to say" Unless the truth indeed hurts?

[constructivereconcil]

@the81kid If the Palestinians can't even create a society that has rule of law, they have failed. Israel has to provide security they either can't manage or refuse to.

Anyone can make up a sad story about how criminals are really freedom fighters. Sure, some of the Palestinians are sincere, but lied to. They never tried to use nonviolence, because the whole reason for the occupation is violence and threats from Arab leadership, and no mitigation in terror from 1947 (really since the 19thC).

[the81kid]

@constructivereconcil

I can't believe you can accuse the Palestinians of never using non-violence, when Israel kills 100 times as many. I can only conclude you are racist: of course "some of the Palestinians are sincere", but generally they are just a violent people etc. Disgusting.

Their land, homes, farms, olive groves, families (1,100 civilians, 300 children, in the Gaza "war" alone, were killed) were taken from them, and yet you have the gall to place the blame on them. Shame on you.

[constructivereconcil]

@the81kid "I can't believe you can accuse the Palestinians of never using non-violence, when Israel kills 100 times as man"

That makes no sense.

1) Israel is a state. It has been said that sovereignty is a monopoly on judicial violence. You don't expect the state to be nonviolent, because lawbreakers are violent and need to be stopped. The violence is therefore 100% the fault of those who start any ciolence without due process.

Thanks for asking. Most people don't even think that much.

[the81kid]

@constructivereconcil

That reply is internationally illegal, and it is disgusting to blame murder on the victims!

[Uncle99B]

@starcatcher2222 . Jews lived in the Middle East for millenia and, unlike Europe, never outkicked out. Israel get created and the European Jews begin the ethnic cleansing of non Jews who lived there forever....all this precedes any departure of Jews to Israel from other middle east nation

[starcatcher2222]

@Uncle99B There was no "ethnic cleansing" per se although many Arabs lost out in a war that was started by the Arabs, If the shoe had been on the other foot would you be mournung the massacre of Jews that would inevitably have occurred and what of the Jews who were kicked out of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalems old city? you are either extremely uninformed or simply a hypocrite

[Uncle99B]

@starcatcher2222. There was quite obviously an ethnic cleansing "per se" (what a pompous use of language) and it fact it continues today. 140,000 people who have left the W bank to visit friends or family outside of the W Bank have been denied re-entry in the past couple of years. We see a continuing massacre of the Palestinians by the Zionists and you bemoan an theoretical massacre of Jews you claim would have taken place had the zionists not slaughtered the Palis. You whiny racist dupe

[starcatcher2222]

@Uncle99B "A theoretical massacre of Jews?" Everywhere in Judea and Samaria that the Arabs seized from the Jews Gush Etzion, Hebron and elsewhere there was a massacre "Driving the Jews into the sea" was also the stated goal of the Arabs in 1947/48 so how "Theoretical" is this massacre. The Zionists "Slaughtered the Pallis?" they killed many Arabs who were fighting a war against them and lost many of their own in the process You are a either a hypocrite or ill informed about what a massacre is

[Uncle99B]

@starcatcher2222 "If the shoe had been on the other foot would you be mournung the massacre of Jews that would inevitably have occurred..".  This is what is known as theoretical and is the comment you made that I was referring to. You're not too bright, are you? As far as actual killing of noncombatants on the other side, the latest ratio has been running Israel 100, Palis 1. But the Jews are the poor victims.

[starcatcher2222]

@Uncle99B I know exactly what you were referring to. It is a theory well based on factual realitys of past massacres that had ocurred and the stated Arab intentions, Your ratios as well are questionable? are they based on the "Jenin Massacre" which never occurred, The Sabra and Shatilla Massacre which was carried out by Lebanese Arabs. The false figures Hamas provided during cast lead. Most Pallis that left in 48 never came into contact with the Jews before they fled. I'm brighter than you.

[Uncle99B]

@starcatcher2222 . So you ridicule me for calling a theory a theory. God you really are stupid.

[starcatcher2222]

@Uncle99B I ridicule you for using the tem theoretical as if you seem to have some belief that after having suffered Pogroms and massacres at the hands of Arabs and being threatened with more massacres that it is somehow unreasonable to conclude that if the Jewish self defense had failed more massacres would not have occurred.

[Uncle99B]

@starcatcher2222. Pogroms? At the hands of the arabs? You are getting your victimhood mythologies confused -- those were a European phenomena. You are a racist buffoon. Israel kills 100 noncombatants for every Israel civilian killed by arabs the past few years and you care only about that one and don't think the 100 worthy of your empathy. You are a Jewish supremacist, devoid of human feeling for the untermenschen. You Zionnazi pig

[starcatcher2222]

@Uncle99B Again you reveal your ignorance by being wildly uninformed, There were Massacres of Jews by Arabs in the 1920s in Jerusalem in Hebron and they continued from time to time until the creation of the state, I think that the country you live in kills many more civilians when it is involved in counterinsurgency operations against foes who embed themselves in Urban population centers, in fact NATO kills more civilians per combatant than Israel in Rural Afghanistan. Hypocrite. You're simple

[starcatcher2222]

@Uncle99B You're just a hypocritical Jew hater.

[MrMinutemen]

@starcatcher2222 you are a filthy jewhater playing antisemite and holokaust(burning sacrifice) cards. shame on u zionists! liars and murderers... herzl was antisemite and nazi. where did al the 150.000 mizrachi kids go? you killed m for dollars.

[starcatcher2222]

@MrMinutemen Once more I am extremely heartened by the sheer idiocy of some of you folks, I will certainly feel not one bit of shame that Jews defend themselves against murderous savages by the way are you called minuteman because you've never fucked for more than 60 seconds at a time.

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

The best defense you have? insults and more insults?

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid These things degenerate quickly when one is advocating the position of those who are simply saddened by the fact that the Arabs have failed to complete the job Hitler started. I didn't insult you i referred you to the latest Poll Data of Arabs in East Jerusalem who trust the benefits of their status in Israel rather than a government envisioned by the PA. Your 1100 civilians # is also innaccurate this was recently confirmed by Hamas who lost between 7and 800 fighters you parrot Libel

[constructivereconcil]

@starcatcher2222 They are conditioned to blame everyone else.

Speaking of twisted facts, the author of the lies about Israeli terror started in 1947 by this speaker's great uncle Dr. Khalidi. @14:14 of PBS 50 Years War Hours 1 thru 3 of 6 on my channel. you hear: "the Palestinian leaders arrived, including Dr. Khalidi"

Then Hazem Nusseibeh of Palestine Broadcasting Service describes fabricating the lies. including this: "This was our biggest mistake" referring to Khalidi authored lies.

[starcatcher2222]

@MrMinutemen OMG you are an idiot mourning the idiot that in her own Quixotic way attempted to protect Hamas Arms smuggling tunnels by not tilting at windmills but at bulldozers.

[Uncle99B]

@starcatcher2222 We don't need theoretical massacres to indict the Zionists. The are steeped in real ones.

[starcatcher2222]

@Uncle99B Most of your alleged massacres are completely unsubstantiated, the worst massacres of Palestinians have occured at the hands of their fellow Arabs why do you not also seem to be aware of these well documented massacres but simply spout Palli talking points that are questionable at best. Tell me was the "Jenin massacre" one of these "real" massacres you are referring to. You are seemingly very ill informed and if not simply stupid at least very ignorant.

[Uncle99B]

@starcatcher2222. Unsubstantiated? I guess all those dead kids in lebanon in 2006 and Gaza in 2008 are theoretical. The millions of cluster bombs Israel dropped on Lebanon in the final days of that slaughter are candy bars. The tons of white phosphorous the Light Unto Nations dropped on Gazan schools, houses, mosques and more was merely cotton candy. 

[constructivereconcil]

@Uncle99B "There was quite obviously an ethnic cleansing "per se" (what a pompous use of language) and it fact it continues today."

What a pompous lie. Show me the evidence. Oops, none found? 404?

[constructivereconcil]

@Uncle99B Your smart mouth sure is quick on the draw but low on evidence. Where are all the pictures that Hamas and PLO certainly record every time they see any blood. As for evidence what would happen, let me see, what happened to the 2 policemen who made a wrong turn in 2000? What happened to the 2 teenagers killed with rocks in a cave, what about the family including infants slashed earlier this spring, it goes on and on. The "occupation" was to stop the attempted continuation of holocaust.

[constructivereconcil]

@Uncle99B And if that is not enough for you, how about finding out a bit about Arafat's adoptive uncle, raised him while the uncle was literally Hitler's closest personal ally? Amin al-Husseini? Arafat changed his name perhaps to keep some of the stink away from the new stink he created. My God, the violence from the moment the Dhimmis were freed...does smart guy know what a dhimmi is or is he too busy picking off students with his quick mind tricks?

[constructivereconcil]

@Uncle99B "140,000 people who have left the W bank to visit friends or family outside of the W Bank have been denied re-entry in the past couple of years"

Wow, that is like a story from Alien. It just happened, right? All we know is now they're gone. Spooky!

Maybe if the totalitarian war would end, where no quarter can be expected from the Muslim enemy, the whiners who started & refuse to take responsibility but instead lie endlessly. War sucks. End the war, & your people won't die.

[Uncle99B]

@constructivereconcil . Huh? It is a spooky story, but no mystery. 140,000 people who left the W Bank to visit friends or family were denied re-entry by Israel. You claim to be an American, but in fact are just another Zionist apologist. You are committing treason to theUSA with your unqualified support of a foreign nation. One year or ten years from now, the backlash will surely come. It won't be from the rational left, it will come from the right and it is going to be horrific

[constructivereconcil]

@Uncle99B Truism of the day:

If the "Palestinians' would put down their weapons, there would be a Palestinian state next to Israel. If the Israelis put down their weapons, there would be a Palestinian state INSTEAD of Israel.

Now nobody can deny that truth. Sit on that and spin all night, abuse kids on youtube and elsewhere, but the facts will never be hidden completely enough to get away with it. The Saudis pay a lot of liars, but the truth is not easy to completely destroy.

[Uncle99B]

@constructivereconcil. Maybe you haven't noticed but the Palestinians have no weapons

[constructivereconcil]

@Uncle99B "Jews lived in the Middle East for millenia and, unlike Europe, never outkicked out. Israel get created and the European Jew"

I see, you only hate SOME Jews. How sweet. Jewish dhimmis are cool, all else must die. I know. "Farewell Israel," film on my channel, Check it out.

[starcatcher2222]

@the81kid Read the innocents abroad and explain to me why Mark Twain could hardly find any Arabs. There were maybe 500,000 here in 1920 with no national identity other than southern Syrian and any Arab surname will reveal his country of family origin. Most followed the Jews into Palestine to benefit from the increased ecomomic oppurtunities brought by an industrious modernized people.

[the81kid]

@starcatcher2222

I will accept that Israel is more democratic than most of it's neighbors, and most of the Middle-East for that matter. And Israel may well offer better opportunities than it's neighbors. But Why is a 19th Century fiction author evidence of not many Arabs? Double standards as usual. There was no Israel before 1948 either. Even in the Jewish Bible which many use as evidence, records they fought and took it from even more previous inhabitants! Jews and Palestinians have identity.

[constructivereconcil]

@the81kid "records they fought and took it from even more previous inhabitants! Jews and Palestinians have identity"

Well yeah, but this was not guided by nebulous doctrine of imperialism. If you accept the narrative, you have to accept for example from the very start, they were in Egypt because the inequity was not yet full in the first target of judicial removal.

At a quick glance it seems like colonizing, but they never attacked anyone without prophetic directions. It's considered justice.

[constructivereconcil]

@the81kid "Why is a 19th Century fiction author evidence of not many Arabs? Double standards as usual"

It's just an anecdote. Don;t conflate illustrations with evidence. This is what we get from the Internet age. You go asking a forum for answers expecting who to answer you? Follow the context and judge the source, not some straw man argument. Do you even understand what a straw man argument is?

Propaganda is taking false assumptions and exploiting them. Khalidi has blood on his hands.

[starcatcher2222]

@starcatcher2222 Why is an author who was a journalists Journal of an account of his travels not evidence of the facts that he saw, Mark Twain is not the only traveler in the Area to comment on the dearth of humanity found here in the 19th century and these accounts reveal the lies the creators of the Arab narrative of a history in the region perpetrate a false history of untold generations of a Palestinian people that simply did not inhabit the area make use of the land or farm it in reality

[constructivereconcil]

@starcatcher2222 " these accounts reveal the lies the creators of the Arab narrative of a history in the region perpetrate a false history of untold generations "

My channel is being filled with videos to teach why this happens. I once thought it was petty manipulation, but by the time I checked everything out, I found that they must lie or admit the Koran is a fraud. They have to explain to Palestinians and Muslims why Israel keeps finding proof of the bible they claim was corrected by Islam.

[constructivereconcil]

@starcatcher2222 But really it goes even further than that. This is about the promises of freedom for the former Ottoman Empire territories, and the Arab and Muslims peoples got their sovereignty with plenty of Jews being ruled by others. When it came time for Jewish sovereignty with diversity, they act like it dropped out of the sky. So what if some Arabs were going to live under Jewish democracy. It goes against their religion, while they scream about how unfair it is, look at Darfur.

[MrMinutemen]

@starcatcher2222 haha, very typical braindead zombie. discard all questions, and use some x and q's. your master trained u well.

[starcatcher2222]

@MrMinutemen OMG do you honestly think that you are any more amusing to me than a baby bird is to a cat, I guess you had some kind of question about mizrachi Kids I'm unfamiliar with that refference so I guess you could enlighten me. the 3rd intifada isn't working out so well the Lebanese army shot 5 Pallys in the back at Israels Northern border, a little payback for the PLOs destruction of their country. If your concerned about human rights maybe you could condemn some real human rights abusers

[the81kid]

good talk, good people!

[Oxa1]

haha now i found it,,/watch?v=Eo2Lo_V6UxA, they posted the second part first..enjoy!

Finkelstein is a good man, defender of human rights!

[sssssjjjj1]

israel is the demons. They are the cancer of this world.

[R3M1T]

Osama Bin Laden is hardly the "Hitler of the 21st century" as one audience member claims - there's still not a shred of evidence to link him to 9/11. I'm surprised that people so logical and reasoned enough to refute Israeli/US propaganda with regards to Gaza, so willingly believe the recent US propaganda about Bin Laden's death.

[stoprainingonme]

@R3M1T The Bin Laden's death thing could very easily be true. I'm just pissed off - and suspicious - that it took them so long to find him. Clearly he wasn't a priority. Anyway it doesn't matter. Bin Laden's death makes no difference to the situation in the middle east.

[R3M1T]

@stoprainingonme

My problem is that it's a fallacy to pick and choose what to believe with regards to what the US government tells us. I take an empirical approach to everything and like to reach a personal reasoned conclusion based on the evidence presented.. facts only, not potential propaganda.

[whereisthejustice1]

Thanks for recording and uploading this. =)

-I noticed briefly at the end that the panelists go along with the official account of 911. They are smart guys, they know 911 was a cover up of some scale. Even though 911 is relevant to events in the middle east, I guess their just not willing to go off topic and speculate because it may harm their reputations and discredit their work, and thats understandable because their work is to important.

Free Palestine!

Investigate 911!

[Oxa1]

@whereisthejustice1 hah youre right. Its a very sensitive subject, i think ppl like these has to hold on and not state one thing or another and wait for the evidence. All the doceuments will be released in 25 years i think..

Noam chomsky makes a good remark though,,, It couldnt be a cover up by the gov. because of the risk of leakage, its no a tangible theory...however a theory could be based on us gov "allowing" this to happen, let it slip through their hands...maybe there are more org involved

[skankingrhythmics]

@whereisthejustice1 ITS AN INSIDE JOB HURRR DURRR!