Ok increase fov to see more of the game world, be more zoomed out, but both the head and monitor location are in the same place, so you STILL have that area of the monitor that the cone of vision can't reach! In other words, it doesn't fixes anything, it just makes it that you see MORE of the world in your cone of vision then before.
Console devs use a small FOV for another reason and that is called saving performance. The smaller the FOV, the less the console has to draw of the game world!
@baholete From my understanding, it's not about confining the monitor to your cone of vision--it's about making ones peripheral vision comfortable. I think it fixes things in the sense that ones brain has additional in-game surroundings to process the scene, so it doesn't feel like s/he is playing with tunnel-vision. Since our brains are not used to processing things in this way, some people (myself included) begin to experience discomfort fairly quickly.
@tmealhouse Of course, but the way he explained it is flawed, It's not because you don't have the whole monitor in your cone of vision (as in the case of TV-console playing), it's because of being closer to the monitor the view the brain sees is too much zoomed in and causes discomfort for certain individuals. Increasing the FOV does not furthers the monitor from you to fit in your cone of vision, it gives you a feeling of more zoomed out. I hope you understood what i'm trying to say.
It's so amazing how he can take such a complex topic and break it down in a way that everyone can understand. And it still makes sense ! Wish all my teachers could do that effectively. Lol
I am not a hardcore gamer, but I am wondering if a wider cone of vision gives the player an advantage in the game? Actually obviously if your screen is bigger and things are clearer, you'll have an advantage in a FPS type game. Never mind, I think I just answered my own question. Good video on FOV. Thanks Feng.
@cnl1213 having looked into FOV some more, I guess its not just the amount of space you see, but its also the distortion factor. Only a certain 60degree cone of vision feels comfortable to the normal human eye, the rest is peripheral vision. I think that's what Feng was getting at in the video. Awesome science+art demo!
Remember, however, that higher FOV makes object appear smaller(angular size) than they are in reality, thus they look farther away. For more slow paced, realistic games like ArmA 2, this is the reason for the large amount of zoom the player is able to use. At full zoom, objects are close to 1:1 angular size, thus it is almost like looking out through a window.
This is why most FPS games have zoom, because no zoom= object look farther away, zoom=loss of peripheral, but you need both.
I am working on a third person action game, we the framerate is to high, lowering the field of view a little bit is one of the many ways to help solving the issue. Avoiding to render part of the geometry on the side of the camera.
(Luckily, it is a lot less disturbing to have smaller fov in a 3rd person game.)
@w0mblemania: You should really think twice before telling people to "go educate themselves"..
The amount of pixels rendered is not the only thing that affect the rendering time.
You cannot forget the amount of geometry, shaders, bones, lights, shadows the engine has to process.
The bigger the fov is, the more geometry, shaders,bones,lights,shadows the engine might have to process. (Because of course, it is not rendering what it can avoid to render> outside of the fov)
Calling something 90 or 95 degrees and then drawing an angle of something like 140 degrees is a something I have a hard time taking it serious. Good video though!
Another reason why half life was so nausea inducing was the lack of strong central objects (like a reticule) to focus on.
Virtually every modern game always has a reticule of some description, in order for the player to keep their focus on the centre of the screen. This helps avoid simulation/motion/car sickness.
@Cri354 Yup, everyone perceives the world differently.
Some folk are sensitive to unnatural FOVs. Or bright lights, unnatural motion, or changes in frame rates.
Some people see "rainbows" and nasty flashes on plasma screens.
I feel nauseous if I merely ::think:: about playing DOOM or Marathon. If I persist in thinking about these games, it's very likely I could give myself a blinding headache, and then vomit. (Yes, really.)
Anyway... this really has been an excellent series of videos.
I feel a bit sad, your sketches look way more awesome than the best thing i've ever drawn in my entire life :-( Even my technical sketches (im working as a engineer) look stupid compared to those simple sketches ... kudos! oh and thanks for the explenation about fov !
@Majorshepard, The reason games end up on PC with a ~60º FoV is more likely because the game has been originally created for console use and then gets ported to a PC. ..the results are many times abysmal, and you end up with a warped experience with ill-suited controls for the PC.
As a personal note: The bad controls and (therefore) messed up feeling I get from (cheaply made) ports to PC is the main reason I simply tend to stay away from console ports.
Game developers need to watch this. They always seem to just use 60 degrees for PC and console for some reason and the game feels weird beause of it, for me any way.
In Serious Sam 2 u can manually change lens, so u can have more than 180° vison in your "60°" vision. Why not let the user decide. Or even better u have to tell your monitor inch and the distance, then it will be automaticly calculated.
Look the only thing you need to know about FOV is that the closer the TV/Monitor is the more FOV you need and the further you are the less fov is needed or else it won't feel good. I pretty much think FOV should always be an option either on PC or Console because everyone doesn't have the same dam TV/Monitor. Tho current getn consoles can't handle the latest games with more FOV.
@AlienMagi No, it is not saying anything about monitors and TV screens. A TV could do the exact same thing as a PC if the game on the TV was given a 90-95 FOV. BUT TV's get 60 FOV because people who play them (based on this videos logic) sit 10 feet away. Its about adjusting the image based on the users position relative to the screen which they play on. If you were able to alter the FOV on a consul game to 90-95 and sat 2 feet from it you would have the same effect as a computer
@BlitzREDEMPTION No, you can't sit close to a tv, because it's got very bad resolution up close, it's meant to be 10 feet away and it's meant to appear smaller otherwise it'd be UGLY
Thank you so much for making this video, I appreciate your time and effort very much.
Being older and my eyes are not so great anyway ( 400 x 400 ) I have such a hard time
seeing guys in BF3 with a 1920 x 1080 monitor ( 23 1/2 " 120 htz ) and I changed my FOV from 90 back to 60 FOV. AA and other options are driving me nuts, as I dont get it all.
There is another reason why the FOV is so tiny on console games, it is also because they have a very small amount of memory, and with a smaller FOV, not as many textures and high detail objects have to be rendered on screen at once.
@xalener It helps save memory.. Consoles have 256mb of graphic memory. To give you an idea of how small that is, when I run Battlefield 2 (Not three, but BF2. An OLD game) it can use up to 700mb of memory.. Hence why consoles don't actually play games in 1080p, nor do they use Anti-aliasing. It just uses WAY too much memory.. And same with FOV, the graphics card only has to draw what is on the screen, and if you have a smaller view, then you don't have so much stuff on the screen. Think about it
I realize this, and I have thought about it. I went as far as to test it with every game I could. I clocked the FPS on 55 degrees to 110, and the changes were negligible.
@xalener Obviously it wouldn't have the same FPS impact on a modern PC with much newer graphics technology. Try using a GPU from 2005 with a VERY low amount of memory and see how much it would effect.. If you have 512mb or more then it's not going to effect anything. Except for VERY high FOV levels. The reason why it's so hard to run triple monitors at smooth framerates is because the huge FOV makes the GPU draw so much of the scene at one time and consumes HUGE amounts of memory.
It's also because it's rendering at 2 quarters higher resolution. I'm 100% certain that has more impact than the increased FOV. Again, you aren't missing much between 90 and 60 degrees, as most geometry you'd see in 90 is still drawn in 60. If you see an edge of a face, even the smallest corner, the whole face is being drawn. The most you'd miss are small objects. REALLY small objects like a cup or a piece of paper on the ground.
@xalener Well, every object counts when your trying to get 2012 future graphics to try and run smoothly on old, out-dated 2005 hardware.. Considering a simple grass texture in Crysis takes up around 2mb, it's REALLY easy to use 256mb of memory...
@w0mblemania Look dude, you were the one that started trying to correct every word that I said. You started this bullshit about how "Oh, the Xbox 360 actually has a 512mb memory pool for normal ram usage and graphics" and other crap which I already knew about and instead was just putting my statements across in simplified terms. Nobody cares about whether or not the 360 has 10mb edram inbuilt.
I just tested it. Crysis ultra config 4xAA. FOV 60=75fps FOV 90=61fps EXACTLY the same scene..
@w0mblemania So, by saying that it doesn't affect performance, you have made yourself look an utter fool. What made you think that having more high-res shit on screen wouldn't affect performance? That is 14fps difference, which is a LOT.. Even Minecraft. FOV 60=109fps FOV 110=101 FPS. Even freaking MineCraft works this way. Use your head and think about it.. More shit on screen means lower FPS, try it yourself!
1. Yep, your right about that, that's why the less of it you have on screen, the better your FPS is. Hence why they have the FOV so small!
2. It has shared ram, it basically just splits it in half and that is why it's safe to say that is has 256mb dedicated graphic RAM.
3. I never said it didn't support it, in fact, a lot of PS3 games use that ugly FXAA that just makes everything blurry. I said that REAL AA is usually never used because it renders the game MULTIPLE times..
1. Untrue. The FOV is not related to performance or memory.
2. The 360 does NOT have "256MB dedicated graphic RAM". It has a shared pool plus a 10MB eDRAM. Depending on the situation ,the VRAM usage can go way over 256MB.
3. "Real AA" is very often used on both consoles. Calling something "real" or not when it comes to AA is a misleading concept. If it works, it works.
@w0mblemania I don't know why people can't accept the fact that both console's are years old.. They are out-dated, under-powered pieces of shit. You try to make them sound so advanced when they really aren't! Even 512mb of memory is REALLY piss-poor these days. I play a lot of games that push 1.2-1.5gb of memory REALLY easily. You seem a lot smarter than the average console defending douche-bag, so why can't you accept the fact they they are just OLD tech?
@w0mblemania It seems really stupid to try and make 2005 hardware sound very powerful and advanced. I bet when the new console's come out, you would say how old and shitty the tech was in the PS3/360(More-so the 360)
Lets put it this way, the gaming industry is currently living in the past and can't move anywhere in terms of graphics because the hardware is so old. You don't see me going around telling everyone how advanced my Geforce4 Ti4400 is and saying how powerful it is...
This is all completely beside the point. I'm not telling anyone how great the hardware is. I'm just saying that some stated "facts" about consoles were dead wrong.
In particular, the BS claim that the FOV is due to performance. It's NOT.
Do your homework before responding, and stop making up bullshit.
@w0mblemania Ok, you REALLY think that having a wider FOV with more detailed objects being drawn on screen at the same time doesn't affect the frame-rate in ANY way? That is pure stupidity. Think of this.. Nvidia Surround and AMD Eyefinity, triple monitor gaming with MASSIVE FOV's.. Modern hardware CAN handle stupidly high resolutions, so what makes triple monitors so hard to run? Maybe the fact that you are drawing so much shit at one time that it just isn't funny! Works the same for consoles.
Console games don't use low FOV for just TV screens but also because it's a great way for developers to have higher FPS in their games, thus have prettier games at 30 FPS. They do the same thing with screen resolution. Console games could easily do true 1080p if it wasn't for the developers who rather have prettier models and effects at the cost of resolution and FOV.
The screen in the back of your airline seat could have the same aspect ratio and viewing angle as a massive cinema screen, but only the cinema screen is immersive.
All else being equal, a 30" screen will feel more immersive and engaging than a 21" screen, adjusting for distance.
@w0mblemania Don't live in america = dont have screen back of airline seat, but I get the point. But at desktop, you have your screen so close so it wouldn't make so big difference. Only that you have to do more work to look at the corners of the screen. But in my opinion I would choose 21"-23" over 30"-32"
@BMJ2008 would need to know distance from your eyes top of *viewable* area of your screen, and distance from your eyes bottom of viewable area of screen to calculate your "perfect" fov, but seeing as you are playing at 800x600 you would need to keep it very low, to avoid everything looking too pixelated.
@SBwingman about 2 feet infront of me. Black Ops and Modern Warfare 2 i play at 72-FOV (same res on both games 800x600 16:10 for smoothness) kinda makes the guns look pointy lol
@TheSUBGAMER to correct you, its 65 degrees vertical FoV in CoD8:MW3, that has ALWAYS been the default FoV since CoD2 (on consoles locked, on PC locked for MW2/3). Yep, the remaining devs at IW and the entire team at Sledgehammer are quite ignorant or plain assholes when you see how FPS and FoV option are not there when a Log Into Facebook option and useless SSAO are put IN. They seem to blame "cheating" and "insecurity" for every PC feature we've had up until CoD5 and Black Ops.
@worlwr2 i cant understund why are they doing that? why would they limit fov?90,95 should be an option and fov of the gun also,I hate how in cod4,mw2 guns are too far out
and why lock fps?
i do understund what they are doing with games,why they dont fix them and all that but locked fov and fps i dont
i litteraly cant play the game with such small fov and headbob and other screen shakes dont help
@TheSUBGAMER I've barraged IW/SHG with our concerns on twitter/forums/customer support. Even @pcdev from Treyarch has retweeted PC FoV to IW and SHG, EVEN COD:ELITE concerns. Btw in quake-like games, changing FoV also changes the viewmodel (gun) FoV because of the emulation of the Field of Vision, you see more updownleftright when u open your eyes. I personally prefer not to have the gun feel like its on my nose ingame. But general FoV is something we can agree on it's shamelessly LOW on PC.
@TheSUBGAMER valve has done it but with some limitation especially in L4D series, but knowing the CoD devs they would never separate gun and view FoV when they don't even want to give us the option of changing it at ALL.
there is one very, very, very, veryyyy important factor to fov adjustment, and that is the feel of running speed, a higher fov seems to make the player feel like the running speed is faster while a low fov feels slower, even sprinting seems to feel like you're walking, its as though you're zoomed in ironsight and running as normal. Some players (like me) will get even the slightest motion sickness from the wrong fov to movement speed ratio.
This was amazing. I just wish all game developers would care to watch it - actually I wish all game company owners would watch this - and understand the importance of FOV in games. As a PC-gamer I feel screwed over again and again because most games today are console ports. The developers "forget" to add an FOV slider enabling PC gamers to have their much needed 85-95 fov... I get motion sickness if my fov is too narrow. Thanks!
This might be the science behind fov, but it's not universal and that is why fov settings should be in every game (also big part of the low fov on consoles is the lower strain it puts on graphics rendering). I have never had the nausea effect regardless of what I play on, on what distance etc. especially in fp games the low fov just breaks my immersion since my mind thinks of seeing through the characters eyes and low fov makes it seem that they have some kind of restriction on their vision.
Yeah.. i just finished a roughly 3 hour session of Dead Island and i had to quit because i got a headache and felt nauseous.. They REALLY need to add a setting to change the FoV.
Watched this video after feeling motion sick (for the first time ever, not in a game, but ever) when playing Dead Island. Interesting stuff I really liked the presentation!
@kowzz have you downloaded the dead island utility that makes you change your fov? i had a similar problem and i switched it to 90. looks orgasmly sweet to the eye!
EXCELLENT video. Very informative. I found this after wondering why FEAR 3 looked WEIRD. Now I've changed the game's FOV settings and it's actually playable!
@Alignn It is. I'm quite a serious PC Gamer, and it's doable, although almost all the time the calculated FOV is still between 90-100, few degrees here and there doesn't really matter.
Is that a non-negligible factor? Hmm, maybe that's related to how shooters are unpopular in the east (with people saying the games make them nauseous)
Sucks being one of the people that gets motion sick. I love games, I love shooters, but I play the first level and never come back to them because of the nausea. I really love Far Cry 2, but I have to force myself to play it instead of just enjoying it.
but after HL2, lot of games i play makes me feel "strange", by that i mean that i feel the fov is too short.
For eg i watched the Crysis 2 leaked walkthrough on YT, it is a PC version, i watched it at fullscreen, so it's like if i'm playing... and i didn't felt ok.
So what i'm curious is if devs don't adjust the fov properly, or if there should be some other compensation in the rendering engine (a huge fov causes a fisheye len effect, but human don't get that distorsion, they just blur!)
I don't suffer from motion sickness, but i noticed, since the "next generation" that i often feel "not quite right" about perspective; it's something that tire me quite a lot and being a gamer it makes me feel handicapped and so i don't enjoy a game as much as i would.
Nice the word on HL2 because i played it when i switched to a 20", at first felt a little odd but i got used and then played CS and DOD a lot without any problem.
Hey, I have a question. I usually dont get motion sickness in video games; but, when I played crackdown 1 there was a specific achievment where the player climbs to the top of a building and jumps of into the water. When I to the top and jumped off I felt my stomach "Drop," as my character progressed into the water; but the thing is Ive never felt this is any other game? Did crackdown one have a different FOV?
@Nuage151: As miniteichman mentioned, all FZD courses are taught in English and English only. For more information about the School, you may want to check out the FAQ section on our website. :)
Thank you for this video, Feng. I think this video should be mandatory knowledge for all game developers. It would make sense that first person games would have a setting for FOV in the options. That way people with different size screen could set their FOV to a comfortable angle.
Great lesson Feng. I'm actually a arting programmer, and I sometimes hear people complain about getting dizzy while playing my games. I always thoughed some people just get that from games, but I now know that's not always the case ; )
Great, great info Feng. Always appreciate getting twitter texts on my phone when you post DC videos. You've effectively filled in as my secondary school for production design at ZERO cost, and I can't thank you enough for helping me get my portfolio ready in time for graduation. Hope to work with you in the field someday. Have a great one!
you should show this infinity ward!
BeefKidTV 2 days ago
Ok increase fov to see more of the game world, be more zoomed out, but both the head and monitor location are in the same place, so you STILL have that area of the monitor that the cone of vision can't reach! In other words, it doesn't fixes anything, it just makes it that you see MORE of the world in your cone of vision then before.
Console devs use a small FOV for another reason and that is called saving performance. The smaller the FOV, the less the console has to draw of the game world!
baholete 5 days ago
@baholete From my understanding, it's not about confining the monitor to your cone of vision--it's about making ones peripheral vision comfortable. I think it fixes things in the sense that ones brain has additional in-game surroundings to process the scene, so it doesn't feel like s/he is playing with tunnel-vision. Since our brains are not used to processing things in this way, some people (myself included) begin to experience discomfort fairly quickly.
tmealhouse 4 days ago
@tmealhouse Of course, but the way he explained it is flawed, It's not because you don't have the whole monitor in your cone of vision (as in the case of TV-console playing), it's because of being closer to the monitor the view the brain sees is too much zoomed in and causes discomfort for certain individuals. Increasing the FOV does not furthers the monitor from you to fit in your cone of vision, it gives you a feeling of more zoomed out. I hope you understood what i'm trying to say.
baholete 3 days ago
It's so amazing how he can take such a complex topic and break it down in a way that everyone can understand. And it still makes sense ! Wish all my teachers could do that effectively. Lol
Scorpio1400 6 days ago
I am not a hardcore gamer, but I am wondering if a wider cone of vision gives the player an advantage in the game? Actually obviously if your screen is bigger and things are clearer, you'll have an advantage in a FPS type game. Never mind, I think I just answered my own question. Good video on FOV. Thanks Feng.
cnl1213 1 week ago
@cnl1213 having looked into FOV some more, I guess its not just the amount of space you see, but its also the distortion factor. Only a certain 60degree cone of vision feels comfortable to the normal human eye, the rest is peripheral vision. I think that's what Feng was getting at in the video. Awesome science+art demo!
cnl1213 1 week ago
wow very good videos definitely made FOV more clear to me.
0perat0r 2 weeks ago
Very informative, great sketches too ;D
J00seyJay 2 weeks ago
Remember, however, that higher FOV makes object appear smaller(angular size) than they are in reality, thus they look farther away. For more slow paced, realistic games like ArmA 2, this is the reason for the large amount of zoom the player is able to use. At full zoom, objects are close to 1:1 angular size, thus it is almost like looking out through a window.
This is why most FPS games have zoom, because no zoom= object look farther away, zoom=loss of peripheral, but you need both.
SBwingman 2 weeks ago
people wounder how i can handle 112 FOV in games.
Leivve 2 weeks ago
I am working on a third person action game, we the framerate is to high, lowering the field of view a little bit is one of the many ways to help solving the issue. Avoiding to render part of the geometry on the side of the camera.
(Luckily, it is a lot less disturbing to have smaller fov in a 3rd person game.)
nganiki 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania: You should really think twice before telling people to "go educate themselves"..
The amount of pixels rendered is not the only thing that affect the rendering time.
You cannot forget the amount of geometry, shaders, bones, lights, shadows the engine has to process.
The bigger the fov is, the more geometry, shaders,bones,lights,shadows the engine might have to process. (Because of course, it is not rendering what it can avoid to render> outside of the fov)
nganiki 3 weeks ago
Very informative, thanks alot!
andyfail 3 weeks ago
Calling something 90 or 95 degrees and then drawing an angle of something like 140 degrees is a something I have a hard time taking it serious. Good video though!
Xelights 3 weeks ago
PC MASTER RACE
angrymarketing5 3 weeks ago
thx great vid
Gorgaef 3 weeks ago
Another reason why half life was so nausea inducing was the lack of strong central objects (like a reticule) to focus on.
Virtually every modern game always has a reticule of some description, in order for the player to keep their focus on the centre of the screen. This helps avoid simulation/motion/car sickness.
Thanks for these videos, they're excellent.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
It's weird. I've been playing on a PC since i was 11 and yet i never had problems with FOV to this day, me being around 19 now.
Cri354 3 weeks ago
@Cri354 Yup, everyone perceives the world differently.
Some folk are sensitive to unnatural FOVs. Or bright lights, unnatural motion, or changes in frame rates.
Some people see "rainbows" and nasty flashes on plasma screens.
I feel nauseous if I merely ::think:: about playing DOOM or Marathon. If I persist in thinking about these games, it's very likely I could give myself a blinding headache, and then vomit. (Yes, really.)
Anyway... this really has been an excellent series of videos.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@Cri354 It doesn't make everyone motion sick. And sometime it isn't so much motion sickness as just feeling like you're looking through a tunnel.
CaptainCarthex 1 week ago
I feel a bit sad, your sketches look way more awesome than the best thing i've ever drawn in my entire life :-( Even my technical sketches (im working as a engineer) look stupid compared to those simple sketches ... kudos! oh and thanks for the explenation about fov !
Ulti2k 3 weeks ago 18
This video is absolutely brilliant. +50 Internets good sir!!
FearTheCalm 3 weeks ago
Now I know why some people are so outspoken against narrow FoV.
ThereIsCake 4 weeks ago
@Majorshepard, The reason games end up on PC with a ~60º FoV is more likely because the game has been originally created for console use and then gets ported to a PC. ..the results are many times abysmal, and you end up with a warped experience with ill-suited controls for the PC.
As a personal note: The bad controls and (therefore) messed up feeling I get from (cheaply made) ports to PC is the main reason I simply tend to stay away from console ports.
"New game looks good! .. ported? oh, Nope."
ZapperGhandi 4 weeks ago
@ZapperGhandi Then you're going to miss out on a lot of great games.
It's not whether it's a port or not, it's how well the port is done.
(Frankly, I'm a bit tired of hearing from the PC master race about their issues with consoles. Time to move on, get over it.)
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
Wow, this was perfectly explained. Good job, understand it completely now!
MrMCNABS 4 weeks ago
perfect explanation. + 1 subbed
Ak1r0 4 weeks ago
damn good vid
IzumoGames 4 weeks ago
Game developers need to watch this. They always seem to just use 60 degrees for PC and console for some reason and the game feels weird beause of it, for me any way.
MajorShepard 4 weeks ago in playlist More videos from FZDSCHOOL
Very well explained. Thanks :)
skipajz1 4 weeks ago
I finally understand this perfectly thanks to you, liked and subscribed :)
MrCommentposter 4 weeks ago
Very informative. I don't have motion sickness, but I wanted to learn how FOV works exactly :)
kebubas 4 weeks ago
In Serious Sam 2 u can manually change lens, so u can have more than 180° vison in your "60°" vision. Why not let the user decide. Or even better u have to tell your monitor inch and the distance, then it will be automaticly calculated.
ufftatabummbumm 4 weeks ago
lets all hope that game developers actully watch this video and understand why we want fov to be changed.
RMJ1984 4 weeks ago
Look the only thing you need to know about FOV is that the closer the TV/Monitor is the more FOV you need and the further you are the less fov is needed or else it won't feel good. I pretty much think FOV should always be an option either on PC or Console because everyone doesn't have the same dam TV/Monitor. Tho current getn consoles can't handle the latest games with more FOV.
BuuGz86 4 weeks ago
i remember getting terribly motion sick playing rise of the triads as a kid. never had the problem since though, i guess i just got used to it.
AndyMcNabStab 4 weeks ago
Moral of the story, if you make a FPS on PC with no FOV adjuster, go back to school.
CaptainCarthex 4 weeks ago 73
@CaptainCarthex Exactly why Call of Duty: MW3 fails on PC.
Tsazao 1 week ago
@Tsazao mw3 is ok on pc. I have seen far far worse, rage, crysis 2,the darkness 2.
Makes you wonder if the gamedevlopers are so dumb or they just dotn bother.
au25 3 days ago
@CaptainCarthex Mw3 has no fov settings.Another reason too call mw3 junk!
n0f3aR629 1 week ago
Very well explained!
daveabh 4 weeks ago
Ah, I get it, so this is why mw2 sucks on pc
M0vir 4 weeks ago 2
So basically, a monitor (pc) is WAY better than a tv, you can see more, way nicer resolutionos, immersions
AlienMagi 4 weeks ago
@AlienMagi No, it is not saying anything about monitors and TV screens. A TV could do the exact same thing as a PC if the game on the TV was given a 90-95 FOV. BUT TV's get 60 FOV because people who play them (based on this videos logic) sit 10 feet away. Its about adjusting the image based on the users position relative to the screen which they play on. If you were able to alter the FOV on a consul game to 90-95 and sat 2 feet from it you would have the same effect as a computer
BlitzREDEMPTION 4 weeks ago
@BlitzREDEMPTION No, you can't sit close to a tv, because it's got very bad resolution up close, it's meant to be 10 feet away and it's meant to appear smaller otherwise it'd be UGLY
AlienMagi 4 weeks ago
@AlienMagi I sit no more then 2 feet from my 32'' so that is not true. It looks fine.
BlitzREDEMPTION 3 weeks ago
@BlitzREDEMPTION it may look "fine", but the definition is way higher on a monitor than a tv when sitting in an equal distance
AlienMagi 3 weeks ago
I liked this course, very clear and great sense of pedagogy, thanks! :)
Kahrok 4 weeks ago
I like to think of it as looking through a hole like through the screen frame and the closer you are the more it opens up
GigaClutch 1 month ago
so my 115 degree fov is overkill?
azzhou1 1 month ago
@azzhou1 you are on the edge on fish eye effect :p
mistaztreek 1 month ago
@azzhou1 unless your face is IN the screen, yeah.
xalener 4 weeks ago
awesome drawing ;D
D4H8able 2 months ago in playlist Weitere Videos von FZDSCHOOL
Thank you so much for making this video, I appreciate your time and effort very much.
Being older and my eyes are not so great anyway ( 400 x 400 ) I have such a hard time
seeing guys in BF3 with a 1920 x 1080 monitor ( 23 1/2 " 120 htz ) and I changed my FOV from 90 back to 60 FOV. AA and other options are driving me nuts, as I dont get it all.
ctguy1955 2 months ago
There is another reason why the FOV is so tiny on console games, it is also because they have a very small amount of memory, and with a smaller FOV, not as many textures and high detail objects have to be rendered on screen at once.
Nintendoguy5794 2 months ago 9
@Nintendoguy5794
I still don't get this... I mean it may help optimize a bit, but only a *bit*. Like literally, just a bit. Not even a byte.
xalener 4 weeks ago
@xalener It helps save memory.. Consoles have 256mb of graphic memory. To give you an idea of how small that is, when I run Battlefield 2 (Not three, but BF2. An OLD game) it can use up to 700mb of memory.. Hence why consoles don't actually play games in 1080p, nor do they use Anti-aliasing. It just uses WAY too much memory.. And same with FOV, the graphics card only has to draw what is on the screen, and if you have a smaller view, then you don't have so much stuff on the screen. Think about it
Nintendoguy5794 4 weeks ago
@Nintendoguy5794
I realize this, and I have thought about it. I went as far as to test it with every game I could. I clocked the FPS on 55 degrees to 110, and the changes were negligible.
xalener 4 weeks ago
@xalener Obviously it wouldn't have the same FPS impact on a modern PC with much newer graphics technology. Try using a GPU from 2005 with a VERY low amount of memory and see how much it would effect.. If you have 512mb or more then it's not going to effect anything. Except for VERY high FOV levels. The reason why it's so hard to run triple monitors at smooth framerates is because the huge FOV makes the GPU draw so much of the scene at one time and consumes HUGE amounts of memory.
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
@Nintendoguy5794
It's also because it's rendering at 2 quarters higher resolution. I'm 100% certain that has more impact than the increased FOV. Again, you aren't missing much between 90 and 60 degrees, as most geometry you'd see in 90 is still drawn in 60. If you see an edge of a face, even the smallest corner, the whole face is being drawn. The most you'd miss are small objects. REALLY small objects like a cup or a piece of paper on the ground.
xalener 3 weeks ago
@xalener Well, every object counts when your trying to get 2012 future graphics to try and run smoothly on old, out-dated 2005 hardware.. Considering a simple grass texture in Crysis takes up around 2mb, it's REALLY easy to use 256mb of memory...
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
@Nintendoguy5794 You do not know what you're talking about.
Look up the term "LOD" and start from there.
Dude, we are here for an ART EDUCATION.
We are not here for fanboy gibberish like yours. Now do everyone a favour, and STFU.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania Look dude, you were the one that started trying to correct every word that I said. You started this bullshit about how "Oh, the Xbox 360 actually has a 512mb memory pool for normal ram usage and graphics" and other crap which I already knew about and instead was just putting my statements across in simplified terms. Nobody cares about whether or not the 360 has 10mb edram inbuilt.
I just tested it. Crysis ultra config 4xAA. FOV 60=75fps FOV 90=61fps EXACTLY the same scene..
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania So, by saying that it doesn't affect performance, you have made yourself look an utter fool. What made you think that having more high-res shit on screen wouldn't affect performance? That is 14fps difference, which is a LOT.. Even Minecraft. FOV 60=109fps FOV 110=101 FPS. Even freaking MineCraft works this way. Use your head and think about it.. More shit on screen means lower FPS, try it yourself!
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
@Nintendoguy5794 It's the SAME RESOLUTION.
The number of pixels (or fragments) do NOT CHANGE.
Jesus. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Go and EDUCATE yourself. Learn how a modern graphics engine actually works.
A CHANGE OF FOV DOES NOT CHANGE THE NUMBER OF PIXELS PROCESSED.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@Nintendoguy5794 Some corrections:
- The FOV has very little impact in a modern graphics engine. Scene management, LOD implementations and shader usage have far more impact.
- The 360 has 512MB RAM, shared with the CPU/GPU. The PS3 has a split architecture.
- The 360 supports it natively at FSAA X4 through an extremely fast 10MB eDRAM on the chip. Both consoles allow for MLAA or similar.
- The consoles output far more per cycle than a typical PC, due to specialisation/optimisation.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania
1. Yep, your right about that, that's why the less of it you have on screen, the better your FPS is. Hence why they have the FOV so small!
2. It has shared ram, it basically just splits it in half and that is why it's safe to say that is has 256mb dedicated graphic RAM.
3. I never said it didn't support it, in fact, a lot of PS3 games use that ugly FXAA that just makes everything blurry. I said that REAL AA is usually never used because it renders the game MULTIPLE times..
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
@Nintendoguy5794
1. Untrue. The FOV is not related to performance or memory.
2. The 360 does NOT have "256MB dedicated graphic RAM". It has a shared pool plus a 10MB eDRAM. Depending on the situation ,the VRAM usage can go way over 256MB.
3. "Real AA" is very often used on both consoles. Calling something "real" or not when it comes to AA is a misleading concept. If it works, it works.
Please stop spreading ill-informed ideas.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania I don't know why people can't accept the fact that both console's are years old.. They are out-dated, under-powered pieces of shit. You try to make them sound so advanced when they really aren't! Even 512mb of memory is REALLY piss-poor these days. I play a lot of games that push 1.2-1.5gb of memory REALLY easily. You seem a lot smarter than the average console defending douche-bag, so why can't you accept the fact they they are just OLD tech?
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania It seems really stupid to try and make 2005 hardware sound very powerful and advanced. I bet when the new console's come out, you would say how old and shitty the tech was in the PS3/360(More-so the 360)
Lets put it this way, the gaming industry is currently living in the past and can't move anywhere in terms of graphics because the hardware is so old. You don't see me going around telling everyone how advanced my Geforce4 Ti4400 is and saying how powerful it is...
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
@Nintendoguy5794 WTF are you talking about now?
This is all completely beside the point. I'm not telling anyone how great the hardware is. I'm just saying that some stated "facts" about consoles were dead wrong.
In particular, the BS claim that the FOV is due to performance. It's NOT.
Do your homework before responding, and stop making up bullshit.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania Ok, you REALLY think that having a wider FOV with more detailed objects being drawn on screen at the same time doesn't affect the frame-rate in ANY way? That is pure stupidity. Think of this.. Nvidia Surround and AMD Eyefinity, triple monitor gaming with MASSIVE FOV's.. Modern hardware CAN handle stupidly high resolutions, so what makes triple monitors so hard to run? Maybe the fact that you are drawing so much shit at one time that it just isn't funny! Works the same for consoles.
Nintendoguy5794 3 weeks ago
If Activision could, they would have this video deleted.
The FZDSCHOOL shut down.
The teachers who clearly explain FOV like this, assassinated.
All those who are know about FOV posting knowledgeable links about it on MW3 forums kidnapped and brainwashed and returned home.
All gamers assimilated into their gaming design.
goigypoigy 3 months ago 3
Another huge reason console games have low fovs is to increase performance on limited hardware.
lneh 3 months ago
@lneh Untrue. They have low FOVs because of the typical display setup used for a console game.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
thank you
strnqr 3 months ago
Console games don't use low FOV for just TV screens but also because it's a great way for developers to have higher FPS in their games, thus have prettier games at 30 FPS. They do the same thing with screen resolution. Console games could easily do true 1080p if it wasn't for the developers who rather have prettier models and effects at the cost of resolution and FOV.
avatarion 3 months ago 3
@avatarion This is not true.
Developers don't use 1080p on the current consoles because of performance. It has nothing to do with FOV.
Creating a game in 720p, whatever the FOV, allows for a higher frame-rate, with better post-processing and AA, than running at 1080p.
Please stop spreading this kind of FUD. Thank you. ;)
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
Thats why you dont get 30'' screen, you get close 21'' ;)
FireSqy 3 months ago
@FireSqy You're forgetting the immersion factor.
The screen in the back of your airline seat could have the same aspect ratio and viewing angle as a massive cinema screen, but only the cinema screen is immersive.
All else being equal, a 30" screen will feel more immersive and engaging than a 21" screen, adjusting for distance.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania Don't live in america = dont have screen back of airline seat, but I get the point. But at desktop, you have your screen so close so it wouldn't make so big difference. Only that you have to do more work to look at the corners of the screen. But in my opinion I would choose 21"-23" over 30"-32"
FireSqy 3 weeks ago
@FireSqy a 22" is good for gaming. Not alot of strain on the eyes yet big enough to be immersive
likerz1 3 weeks ago
@likerz1 Yeh, I use 23" and <3
FireSqy 3 weeks ago
@FireSqy <3 to you too.
likerz1 3 weeks ago
Okay, Nice video/s!!! I have a 23" monitor and usualy play FPS at 800x600...Any idea what the FOV should be?
BMJ2008 3 months ago
@BMJ2008 since everything is bigger on your screen I guess 90 degree FOV should do the trick. I personally use 70 - 75 fov for my 22" Monitor.
peymanstd 3 months ago
@BMJ2008 would need to know distance from your eyes top of *viewable* area of your screen, and distance from your eyes bottom of viewable area of screen to calculate your "perfect" fov, but seeing as you are playing at 800x600 you would need to keep it very low, to avoid everything looking too pixelated.
SBwingman 2 months ago
@SBwingman about 2 feet infront of me. Black Ops and Modern Warfare 2 i play at 72-FOV (same res on both games 800x600 16:10 for smoothness) kinda makes the guns look pointy lol
BMJ2008 2 months ago
i have like 19 inch monitor maybe thats why i dont get motion sickness
rowan092001 3 months ago
too bad kids making games today dont know nothing
just looks at new mw3 with locked fps and locked fov to 60
TheSUBGAMER 4 months ago 3
@TheSUBGAMER to correct you, its 65 degrees vertical FoV in CoD8:MW3, that has ALWAYS been the default FoV since CoD2 (on consoles locked, on PC locked for MW2/3). Yep, the remaining devs at IW and the entire team at Sledgehammer are quite ignorant or plain assholes when you see how FPS and FoV option are not there when a Log Into Facebook option and useless SSAO are put IN. They seem to blame "cheating" and "insecurity" for every PC feature we've had up until CoD5 and Black Ops.
worlwr2 3 months ago
@worlwr2 i cant understund why are they doing that? why would they limit fov?90,95 should be an option and fov of the gun also,I hate how in cod4,mw2 guns are too far out
and why lock fps?
i do understund what they are doing with games,why they dont fix them and all that but locked fov and fps i dont
i litteraly cant play the game with such small fov and headbob and other screen shakes dont help
TheSUBGAMER 3 months ago
@TheSUBGAMER I've barraged IW/SHG with our concerns on twitter/forums/customer support. Even @pcdev from Treyarch has retweeted PC FoV to IW and SHG, EVEN COD:ELITE concerns. Btw in quake-like games, changing FoV also changes the viewmodel (gun) FoV because of the emulation of the Field of Vision, you see more updownleftright when u open your eyes. I personally prefer not to have the gun feel like its on my nose ingame. But general FoV is something we can agree on it's shamelessly LOW on PC.
worlwr2 3 months ago
@worlwr2 cant they add an option like in source game to change the fov of the guns? but all this aint important they want change it so fuck them
man there aint a good pc fps game coming at all
TheSUBGAMER 3 months ago
@TheSUBGAMER valve has done it but with some limitation especially in L4D series, but knowing the CoD devs they would never separate gun and view FoV when they don't even want to give us the option of changing it at ALL.
worlwr2 3 months ago
@TheSUBGAMER It's nothing to do with "kids making games".
And MW3 is just one game. There are thousands of others that do the right thing by gamers.
(However, pleasing the PC crowd is never going to happen.)
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania "thousands of other"? lol in what world do you live kiddo?
TheSUBGAMER 3 weeks ago
@TheSUBGAMER All those games on Steam, and the zillions that aren't, don't happen by accident.
They're written by adults, most of whom care about what they do.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania No i mean on this planet,you know in real world,not in your little fantasy -)
kid you retarded or just trolling?
TheSUBGAMER 3 weeks ago
@TheSUBGAMER Can you please stop dumbing down the internet? Thank you.
w0mblemania 3 weeks ago
@w0mblemania retard u mad?
TheSUBGAMER 3 weeks ago
thank you for this !
InnerEsop 4 months ago
Thanks bro! You cleared it up for me. Battlefield will be that much better :)
88dragons88 4 months ago
there is one very, very, very, veryyyy important factor to fov adjustment, and that is the feel of running speed, a higher fov seems to make the player feel like the running speed is faster while a low fov feels slower, even sprinting seems to feel like you're walking, its as though you're zoomed in ironsight and running as normal. Some players (like me) will get even the slightest motion sickness from the wrong fov to movement speed ratio.
ann0ynim0us 4 months ago
This was amazing. I just wish all game developers would care to watch it - actually I wish all game company owners would watch this - and understand the importance of FOV in games. As a PC-gamer I feel screwed over again and again because most games today are console ports. The developers "forget" to add an FOV slider enabling PC gamers to have their much needed 85-95 fov... I get motion sickness if my fov is too narrow. Thanks!
izihbo 4 months ago
Great video. Thanks.
heyyyyyynow 5 months ago
This might be the science behind fov, but it's not universal and that is why fov settings should be in every game (also big part of the low fov on consoles is the lower strain it puts on graphics rendering). I have never had the nausea effect regardless of what I play on, on what distance etc. especially in fp games the low fov just breaks my immersion since my mind thinks of seeing through the characters eyes and low fov makes it seem that they have some kind of restriction on their vision.
Draugo 5 months ago 2
always wonderd why i'd play games in window at 1440x900- fully answered it.
lilamma1 6 months ago
Yeah.. i just finished a roughly 3 hour session of Dead Island and i had to quit because i got a headache and felt nauseous.. They REALLY need to add a setting to change the FoV.
nubpenner 6 months ago
This explains why I play better on my laptop...
Psypherion 6 months ago
This should be a standard setting in all games, just like setting brightness at the start
samhblackmore 6 months ago
Interesting, great way to explain why FOV should be considered by developers when building for multiple platforms.
DannoGolightly 6 months ago
Watched this video after feeling motion sick (for the first time ever, not in a game, but ever) when playing Dead Island. Interesting stuff I really liked the presentation!
kowzz 6 months ago 58
@kowzz Hehe, Dead Island is getting a lot of negative FoV feedback ;)
Hopefully they'll fix it.
MrPeters930525 6 months ago
@kowzz have you downloaded the dead island utility that makes you change your fov? i had a similar problem and i switched it to 90. looks orgasmly sweet to the eye!
littlefrank90 3 months ago
EXCELLENT video. Very informative. I found this after wondering why FEAR 3 looked WEIRD. Now I've changed the game's FOV settings and it's actually playable!
Tda7000 6 months ago
hm... So it should be possible to ask the user their monitor measurement and distance, and from that calculate their ideal FOV?
Alignn 7 months ago 59
@Alignn Nice idea, I would like to see this.
Brightgalrs 6 months ago
@Alignn I have a post setup on the widescreen gaming forums that has those calculations but most games will not take them..
widescreengamingforum com/forum/viewtopic php?f=41&t=23361
ZE0SPantera 6 months ago
@Alignn It is. I'm quite a serious PC Gamer, and it's doable, although almost all the time the calculated FOV is still between 90-100, few degrees here and there doesn't really matter.
MorManu 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from FZDSCHOOL
@Alignn If you were going to do that you might have to ask how far apart a persons eyes are as well
farshnuke 3 weeks ago
@farshnuke
Is that a non-negligible factor? Hmm, maybe that's related to how shooters are unpopular in the east (with people saying the games make them nauseous)
Alignn 3 weeks ago
but theres also a competitive element and advantage to having a wider FOV.
One of the myriad of reasons that competitive fps cant have PC and Console players playing together.
chronoisworking 8 months ago
Sucks being one of the people that gets motion sick. I love games, I love shooters, but I play the first level and never come back to them because of the nausea. I really love Far Cry 2, but I have to force myself to play it instead of just enjoying it.
SupremeSunday 8 months ago
Really interesting!
That explains why I couldn't play Borderlands for longer than 30 minutes on the PC without getting sick.
Thunabrain 11 months ago
(2)
but after HL2, lot of games i play makes me feel "strange", by that i mean that i feel the fov is too short.
For eg i watched the Crysis 2 leaked walkthrough on YT, it is a PC version, i watched it at fullscreen, so it's like if i'm playing... and i didn't felt ok.
So what i'm curious is if devs don't adjust the fov properly, or if there should be some other compensation in the rendering engine (a huge fov causes a fisheye len effect, but human don't get that distorsion, they just blur!)
lvldsnr 1 year ago
Intersting.
I don't suffer from motion sickness, but i noticed, since the "next generation" that i often feel "not quite right" about perspective; it's something that tire me quite a lot and being a gamer it makes me feel handicapped and so i don't enjoy a game as much as i would.
Nice the word on HL2 because i played it when i switched to a 20", at first felt a little odd but i got used and then played CS and DOD a lot without any problem.
lvldsnr 1 year ago
Hey, I have a question. I usually dont get motion sickness in video games; but, when I played crackdown 1 there was a specific achievment where the player climbs to the top of a building and jumps of into the water. When I to the top and jumped off I felt my stomach "Drop," as my character progressed into the water; but the thing is Ive never felt this is any other game? Did crackdown one have a different FOV?
alston2reel 1 year ago
I play Q3A at 120 fov :D
YTDekus 1 year ago
good stuff! I've always wondered about that issue between console and pc. Thanks for clearing that up. Very well explained!
Thegeeman23 1 year ago
Thank you everyone for the positive comments!
@Nuage151: As miniteichman mentioned, all FZD courses are taught in English and English only. For more information about the School, you may want to check out the FAQ section on our website. :)
FZDSCHOOL 1 year ago 14
I always wondered why HL2 gave me such bad motion sickness. Enlightening stuff Feng.
deadlyfreeze 1 year ago
Thank you for this video, Feng. I think this video should be mandatory knowledge for all game developers. It would make sense that first person games would have a setting for FOV in the options. That way people with different size screen could set their FOV to a comfortable angle.
Floatharr 1 year ago
Wow I had no idea, thanks for the insight.
zazery 1 year ago
Great lesson Feng. I'm actually a arting programmer, and I sometimes hear people complain about getting dizzy while playing my games. I always thoughed some people just get that from games, but I now know that's not always the case ; )
liquidtripper 1 year ago
but all these 3d games look distorted to me, feng. why is that? doors look bigger in 3d games than they do in real life.
jsaic 1 year ago
glad you are explaining this. i've always wondered about this. thank you feng.
jsaic 1 year ago
It's really interesting :) Thanks.
Also I was wondering if you teach in english in your school?
Nuage151 1 year ago
@Nuage151 was wandering the same, please answer this :)
DmitryYanchuk 1 year ago
@Nuage151 Yes, if you go on their site, their classes are only taught in english
miniteichman 1 year ago
Great, great info Feng. Always appreciate getting twitter texts on my phone when you post DC videos. You've effectively filled in as my secondary school for production design at ZERO cost, and I can't thank you enough for helping me get my portfolio ready in time for graduation. Hope to work with you in the field someday. Have a great one!
IISKETCHII 1 year ago
that was quite insightful, thank you for sharing
sealedpaladin 1 year ago