Fur (thoughts 30)

[Wolvesbaned]

Many years ago, I used to be pro-PETA. I also thought that wearing any kind of fur was a wicked, wicked, thing that only movie stars did. Now I'm sitting here looking up videos on fur hats - to wear. What changed? I saw more of the world and realize that in the modern world, the only people that have the LUXURY to bish about these things are the ones with full bellies and money in their pockets. With your argument, one can ask, "Why do we eat meat when there's vegetable alternative"?

[Magnulus]

I'm not sure I understand how your argument counters mine, to be honest. My argument is that if you don't eat it and you use nothing but its fur and purely for adorning your body, why are you killing it? I hardly eat meat at all, myself, but meat is the most readily available source of many proteins and some important vitamins. If I have the luxury to clothe myself without killing something, isn't that nice? and if I don't, isn't it then nice that I can use that animal to feed myself as well?

[aod31]

I seen some videos and they dont kill the animal, they strip it alive.

[Magnulus]

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what everyone does.

[hectori12]

Problem No. 4: "Treat them with respect" (as you said).

Animals are most certainly not treated with respect when they are skinned alive, and then their fur ends up on some pretentious hag's coat.

Kudos for your cosplaying. You make one good pretentious old lady :P ;D

Problem No. 5: Your face at the end. 'Nuff said.

[Magnulus]

Again, just because PETA loves spreading videos of animals being skinned alive doesn't mean the entire food/ leather industry does that.

[hectori12]

I wouldn't trust PETA with my life mate. And I find it funny that people would bring PETA into an argument. There are much better, more successful animal organisations out there.

[hectori12]

Problem No 3: I highly doubt that you go out and skin your own cow or mink. No kudos for you if you do though. You cannot safely guarantee that the said cow or mink/snow leopard/fox etc. was killed humanely nor was it not wasted. I've yet to see a video where the animal was not skinned alive.

[Magnulus]

Hey, I specifically said that minks and other furs are just wrong, didn't I? I've only condoned leather made from animals we actually eat and treat respectfully. You don't see videos of animals being treated humanely because those aren't interesting for activists, so they're not spread out. In Norway, there are VERY strict guidelines as to how the animals are treated. Your OPINION on that matter doesn't enter into it, because it's fact.

[hectori12]

okay okay, i withdraw the mink comment.

[hectori12]

Problem Number 1: The cow leather industry is not a by product of the cow meat industry - it is an industry in itself. The cow is skinned and the meat is thrown away. If the leather industry WAS a by product of the meat industry, you would in fact be acting on your own principles. Seeing as it isn't a by product, you aren't.

Problem No. 2: Unless you kill, skin and eat your own animal, then wearing mass produced fur is cruel and wasteful. Once again, against your own 2 principles.

[Magnulus]

Know that industries are different in different countries. I don't know anything about the industries in other countries, but the industries in Norway are more tightly knit. It has to be said, though, that I own very little leather. It's bullshit, pardon my French, that you have to kill and skin your own animal to make it "right". Might be sportsmanlike, but it has nothing to do with morals in my opinion.

[hectori12]

I don't support killing any animal for anything at all, whether humanely or inhumanely. As long as alternatives exist, then the animal will always die in vain.

And I didn't realise you were referring to Norway. I was referring to Australia and the US.

[Magnulus]

I guess this kind of makes our discussion a little pointless. We talk from completely different perspectives. ^_^

Dan Piraro, a A cartoonist and a vegetarian from the US, talked once about how he actually considered being non-vegetarian while in Norway because of the way we treat our animals. He didn't, though.

[hectori12]

Note to self - make a point of visiting Norway. ^_^

[Magnulus]

^_^ It really is beautiful here in the summer. Steer clear of Oslo, though. It's like it tried to be New York, but only managed to emulate the bad stuff. *chuckles*

Have a good one! I need to get back to panicking about this essay...

[hectori12]

lololololol

The majority of the world's population doesn't buy fur or leather from Norway. O___o

Noooorrrwaaaaaaayyyy.... where is that anyway?

[Magnulus]

Check an atlas.

[zsamsherez]

People who wear and support fur production are IGNORANT. Parading around like some feigned aristrocat in an animal's skin isnt classy. Its barabaric and inhumane. Instead, people who wear fur should skin their goddamm mother alive and listen to hear scream and cry. She should have never given birth to such an ignorant person anyway.

[brastl]

you blablabla it´s very very not interessed for any people. speak with you are not wit here ....

[Magnulus]

I'm having trouble following what you're trying to say. Would you mind terribly restructuring your sentence so it's readable? I think you're trying to slag me off, which is fine, but that only really works if I can understand it.

[12235117657598502586]

Well Said Magnulus! Honest & real.

Anyone who wears fur as a status symbol, is just an empty creature who happens to have a human body - but no real human soul (in my opinion)..may they all come back as a furry animal & end up on the back of some cruel, selfish, empty headed moron.

[Magnulus]

Well said yourself! ^_^ I think it's going a bit far to call them empty creatures, though... I mean, they're hardly empty, are they? They seem to be pretty full of it to me! HAW HAW HAW!

[tabithascobra]

i don't wear fur, but if i had to answer why wear it? cuz their soft, pretty, and very nice looking. honestly, i could care less how animals are treated on the fur farms, maybe that makes me a cold hearted b**** but it still doesn't bother me. i don't wear fur cuz, i don't look good in it, people heckle about it, and it's expensive.

[Magnulus]

But if you could choose between a soft, pretty and nice looking faux fur and a real one that's pretty much the same thing, only that it's made from dead animals, which one would you chose? If there's no distinguishable difference.

[melblue87]

omg...all you said is so true...your funny dude!

[Magnulus]

Heheh, thanks!

[caz457]

Yeah. I did put "I agree" at the start, but it wouldn't fit so I had to get rid of it.

[caz457]

Although I'm a vegetarian, I do believe it's OK to eat animals as long as their given a wonderful life. And in my opinion, if you're going to kill the animal anyway, you might as well use it all up, so wearing leather is OK to me as well.

However, animals in fur farms are bred in awful conditions and then killed painfully, just for their fur. We don't need to wear fur, and it has no greater benefit to us than wearing normal clothes or fake fur. It's unnecessary suffering and it's wrong.

[Magnulus]

Well, yeah. So we agree. ^_^

[perthomas]

The main caratere in Jan Kjaerstads trilololology can think 2 thoughs at the same time...Maybe thats what is on its way with/for you..Im thinking about saying one thing,thinking another and then saying something different and then finally explain it...Do you get any of this?

[Magnulus]

I can think one thing and say another, but that's not because I can think of two things at once. I cheat by not thinking about what I'm saying at all. ^_^

[Schalos]

I love wearing leather. I love eating meat. People can believe they are elevated above nature, but humans are animals also. The only reason dinosaurs didn't use our skins to keep warm is they weren't smart enough, and that's why they died.

Unnatural doesn't mean better. Eat foods with saccharin, wear plastic clothes, bury us all in a mountain of trash, just don't act like you're doing the world a favor.

[Magnulus]

man, that bit about the dinos had me in stitches. ^_^

However, on the plastics and trash, I think most of the "anti-kill" people are proponents of using natural products made from anything BUT animals. I can see the logic in that, though I don't necessarily agree.

Thanks for watching and commenting!

[swaythosehips]

Lol... you do a wonderful "Prestigious Woman" impression. ;)))

[Magnulus]

Thank you! I spent many long hours with actual rich bitches in order to study how they behave in their natural environments so I could portray them as accurately as possible. I'd say that my performance probably ranks up there with Serkis' King Kong work. Probably above it, because it's all me. ^_^

[irishdictator]

It is a status issue, I think.

[Magnulus]

Yes, that much is clear, but where does the status come from? If it's price, then there are more expensive faux furs out there that look and feel just as good, if not BETTER, than real fur. So is it about the fact that it is an actual animal? If it is, then it's disgusting.

[virginiawaldron]

Meat-eating causes innumerable problems both to the animals we slaughter and to us. Not only do we damage our own bodies but we make ourselves less than what we could be in terms of our human spirit. It makes us coarse and base to eat meat. Lessens our higher aspirations and feelings.

[Magnulus]

If you eat lots of meat all the time, yes, it'll work against us. A high-protein diet can be constipating and ultimately, overeating of meat can clog up your arteries. Other than that, no.

It seems from this post that you may have some philosophical grounds for your vegetarianism, so I will leave the discussion as is, because I don't want to be arguing with you on things you base your life around. Hope you don't mind. It's been an interesting talk, though.

[jwca]

I will wear the coat of 500 rats if you will eat the 500 rats. O.K., I will eat a few. O.K. I will eat all of them.

[Magnulus]

I think it'd suit you really well. ^_^

[virginiawaldron]

Farm animals do not live a life of luxury. Abbatiors are not humane! Do you really need to eat the flesh of other beings to live a healthy life? Perhaps it was necessar for survival in the past but not now. In the future, I hope, that the eating of animals will be regarded as the totally gratuitous and barbaric practice that it is. Those consuming such products are philistines, to my mind.

[Magnulus]

It's a lot easier to eat healthy when you eat animal flesh. Eating meat is part of life, it's what we (and countless other animals) do. We are clearly omnivores, just look at our teeth. Note that I said "in Norway" about the life os leisure. American Dan Piraro (of the Bizarro comic) is vegetarian, but he said that in Norway, he could almost eat meat.

[virginiawaldron]

Easier to eat flesh but not more ethical!

Common practices do not determine essential practices: merely because meat-eating is common does not indicate that it is necessary. I would hope that humans have greater options to determine their own diet than other animals. My incisors take second place to my brain in decision making. Wish the Norwegian animals could tell you what they feel.

[Magnulus]

Saying that you wish they could tell me how they feel implies a certain amount of anthromorphisation (damn, what a mouthful) as it then seems you assume the animals feel anything concerning the issue. I'm not so sure they think about death so much as the fact that they never go hungry and that they are free to roam in summer and they are taken away from the cold during winter. If they could tell me how they felt? "I feel satiated and warm."

[Marihani]

LOL! How do you manage to be so seriously sensible and so stupendously silly all in one video??? I totally agree with your fur stance, Mag - totally AOL :-)

[Magnulus]

^_^ I do love being silly, but sometimes, sensibility comes creeping.

[SpeedyTortoise]

I agree with pretty much everything you said there. Quick question though, what about that seal oil stuff you use? Do they eat the seal afterwards? just interested, they dont sell it in the UK. I try not to use any cosmetics that have been tested on animals. Thoughts?

[Magnulus]

Yeah, seal steak is damn awesome, actually. We eat seal, and people wear seal skin jackets. Considering those points, even extracting OIL from their fat means we're REALLY using the whole animal. ^_^ Good thing about the cosmetics. Putting eye shadow on a rabbit is not nice. Unless it's a curious little rabbit.

[SpeedyTortoise]

good that the whole animal is used. I always think of the native americans who used to use all of the bison, even the stomach which was used as a container.

[Magnulus]

Yeah. The old style of using everything is my favourite. One good thing is that food that in the old days used to be sort of emergency food, like Sheeps' Heads in Norway, tends to gain a new life as a delicacy these days. Part of the animals that we used to eat because we HAD to are now sought-after treats that cost a bundle. I like that. ^_^

[TheHappyShow]

Me too! Me too! ;-) It would be funny to serve some rich old "stately" snob a plate of food and after she ate it, tell her she just ate mink. I bet she'd have a very weird expression on her face. :-) -- Matt

[Magnulus]

I think so, too.

I think I should start a posh restaurant called "Just Fair"... probably in French. All the food on the list will be made from animals that were used in fur, and it'll cost half a gazillion moneys for just a starter.