It wasn't the attys' fault though - if they had promptly broken atty-cli privilege when their client was alive, Alton would still be in prison (evidence would not have been admitted!) ...issue wasn't "atty's careers vs. innocent person"; it was "an unfair nuance in the law vs. innocent person" + pub defenders don't make much $
Atty-cli privilege exists in part so a pub defender isnt just a feared "agent of the gov" who can torture, force confessions, etc
Actually, even if the evidence couldn't have been admitted, they could've quit the field and just gone public with the information, and completely circumvent the formal legal process... and let the public outcry put serious pressure on the judges and the system to do what's right.
The information may not have been admissible in court, but that definitely wouldn't have kept it from being "admissible" on every single TV, radio, and media outlet across the country... and the world.
I think your first argument is better. If they just leaked it out, what if they found out the info they had was incorrect? (eg their client was under duress to confess to the crime) And who would take up the cause from an ambiguous rumor?
If they would've quit, and decided to make it public, it still would have been amazing had they pulled it off. The legislature (i think) would need to change the law... it would be a longshot...
Yes, but all those circumstances still apply now, after the true culprit is dead... After all, the information could now be incorrect, and could've been gathered under duress.
Also, the rumor is no less ambiguous now than it was back then... It all still rides on that affadavit they filled out, no matter what.
Every single thing is exactly the same now as during the past 26 years, except that their client is now dead. So there is no less legitimacy now to their claims as all along.
The exception for breaking ac privilege in IL isn't as broad as in other states -so yea IL should prbly change its law
Nobody's a "hero" in this case...
I just worry that the ppl who hear this story confuse a public defender with some money-hungry bigshot criminal defense lawyer that you'd see on TV. Public defenders are low-paid, kind of like social workers... The prisions in the US are so crowded that murder cases are "resolved" way too quickly... not too many ppl sleep well knowing that
1. Re: "ambiguity" of the info- Alton's lawyers had to go back and obtain other testimony to free him (b/c technically that affidavit was "hearsay")... and he still has to undergo the new trial! But the main pt is that the attys DIDN'T break a/c privilege by waiting. If they had broken it -- even if they actually inspired an awesome (prospective) change in the law-- that prbly couldn't (retrospectively) help Alton.
I hope Mr. Logan writes a book or does something now that he can speak out.
Well, unless I'm mistaken, I think I've noticed that judges themselves can be nicely influenced by a massive, and massively hostile, public outcry to deliver a certain outcome.
Assuming this for a moment, had the attorneys gone public with the information, something in me has a feeling that the rules you're stating would undergo the usual "legal miracle": they would suddenly become a lot more open to fluid, radical interpretation than a person might read strictly from the printed page.
That's why activism exists... to put pressure on the controlling institutions through inspiring awareness... and youre right, the lawyers essentially stuck with "lawyering" (over trying something like "activism") as the means to help this guy. Ppl pick their battles over what to adhere to and I know that sounds too compromising... but I do think those guys made a commendable choice re how to best help someone in light of circumstances
Here's to hope for thousands of others wrongly convicted
2.I meant "resolved" sarcastically - yeah I mean it's inaccurate and unfair- you and I both know they do NOT get to the bottom of these gutwrenching criminal cases, they work quickly, make mistakes, but keep moving and don't look back...Meanwhile, there's a whole sub-class of ppl locked up.
After DNA testing was introduced in IL, a significant %of ppl on death row were exonerated (not guilty by AFFIRMATIVE dna proof)-it was so bad the Republican governor put a moratorium on the death penalty
The old governer put a moratorium on the carrying out of capital punishment itself in 2000, in light of a # of death row inmates found to be innocent through newly-introduced dna testing (it was so outrageous that even a conservative governer had to admit you can't just execute people when a substantial # of those on death row are wrongly convicted). Ppl can still be sentenced to death in IL, but cannot currently be executed b/c of this moratorium...
Well, that's a refreshing piece of good news in an otherwise horrible world.
Of course, I'm sure that there are plenty of devout cruelists around who are pretty mad about the lack of unjust death going on. And, yes, there really are those kinds of people around... many more than you would probably want to ever know.
I've been all over the country and have seen all but a few states in the continuous 48. I do like the change in seasons but, I'm finding it more difficult to get through the long winters here.
It was good for my soul to finally get across country and see the rest of this beautiful Continent we all live on.
Pacific NW, I'm in Spokane, WA and have been thinking about moving to Portland, OR for a long time now. I just might do it soon, I lived in Seattle for 2 years, here now for the past 7 years and before that I lived in LA, CA for a year after leaving the place where I was born and raised, So, FL.
The unjust justice system. The rich criminal murders get away with it legally and the rest of us poor SOB's rot in jail, yeah that's real justice for ya. The rich make all the laws and sentences carried out that the poor people all must live under. Then we wonder why everyone is so screwed up in the head in this country. LOL! Violence and murder in just about everything you see, games that endorse it and a government that allows it's men and women to fight it's dirty wars. Culture of violence.
I've never been a violent person. I think some people are predisposed to violence whether it be because of the way they were raised or maybe there is a bit of arrogance about it and some might think it's OK to resolve things that way. But for whatever the reason there is always a disconnection that happens when people commit violence. They lose control and because they are socially inept they are frustrated and feel it's the only way they can be understood. Too much visual violence. It's sad. :(
Ahh, been a few days since your last vid, was wondering where you were.
26 years...he was in jail for 5 years before I was even born. A 'Nightmare Travesty of Justice' indeed...I can't even begin to imagine trying to go back to living a normal life after that...
Why would that be the case? Are you talking about "double jeopardy"?
Double Jeopardy means that if you've been found innocent of a crime, that you can't be charged again later for the same specific crime... meaning the same, precise event.
In other words, you couldn't be charged twice for the same murder or whatever of the same exact person. But if you murdered someone else, you most certainly could.
thats good news, I think its weird that your b-day is 4-20 cuz everyone i know who shares that bday is a stoner, and thinks it gives them a right to be a stoner (not like its any of my busness) but I don't think having the same b-day as hitler a day that stoners celbrate and don't rember why that day was choosen (they were probly stoned when they chose it) but cellibrate it none the less
and yay my b-day is the 22 also know as earthday, and i share it with betty page
No, I'm definitely not a stoner. Pot makes me way too paranoid, and there's already way too much stuff going on in this world to make me way paranoid.
But Happy B-Day on the 22nd, you and Betty Page. Woo hoo
You have the same birthday as Adolf Hitler. haha
5amGordon 3 years ago
Yeah, I know. Me and Omar Sharif and Carmen Electra, we all hear "Springtime for Hitler" in our heads.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
Thanks for posting+having a conscience,
It wasn't the attys' fault though - if they had promptly broken atty-cli privilege when their client was alive, Alton would still be in prison (evidence would not have been admitted!) ...issue wasn't "atty's careers vs. innocent person"; it was "an unfair nuance in the law vs. innocent person" + pub defenders don't make much $
Atty-cli privilege exists in part so a pub defender isnt just a feared "agent of the gov" who can torture, force confessions, etc
acrediblesource 3 years ago
Actually, even if the evidence couldn't have been admitted, they could've quit the field and just gone public with the information, and completely circumvent the formal legal process... and let the public outcry put serious pressure on the judges and the system to do what's right.
The information may not have been admissible in court, but that definitely wouldn't have kept it from being "admissible" on every single TV, radio, and media outlet across the country... and the world.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
Or perhaps they didn't need to quit. Perhaps they could've just leaked it somehow. It happens all the time.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
I think your first argument is better. If they just leaked it out, what if they found out the info they had was incorrect? (eg their client was under duress to confess to the crime) And who would take up the cause from an ambiguous rumor?
If they would've quit, and decided to make it public, it still would have been amazing had they pulled it off. The legislature (i think) would need to change the law... it would be a longshot...
acrediblesource 3 years ago
Yes, but all those circumstances still apply now, after the true culprit is dead... After all, the information could now be incorrect, and could've been gathered under duress.
Also, the rumor is no less ambiguous now than it was back then... It all still rides on that affadavit they filled out, no matter what.
Every single thing is exactly the same now as during the past 26 years, except that their client is now dead. So there is no less legitimacy now to their claims as all along.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
The exception for breaking ac privilege in IL isn't as broad as in other states -so yea IL should prbly change its law
Nobody's a "hero" in this case...
I just worry that the ppl who hear this story confuse a public defender with some money-hungry bigshot criminal defense lawyer that you'd see on TV. Public defenders are low-paid, kind of like social workers... The prisions in the US are so crowded that murder cases are "resolved" way too quickly... not too many ppl sleep well knowing that
acrediblesource 3 years ago
When you say "resolved", do you mean quicker death sentences, or earlier parole and release? Or, worse yet, easier "not guilty" verdicts?
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
1. Re: "ambiguity" of the info- Alton's lawyers had to go back and obtain other testimony to free him (b/c technically that affidavit was "hearsay")... and he still has to undergo the new trial! But the main pt is that the attys DIDN'T break a/c privilege by waiting. If they had broken it -- even if they actually inspired an awesome (prospective) change in the law-- that prbly couldn't (retrospectively) help Alton.
I hope Mr. Logan writes a book or does something now that he can speak out.
acrediblesource 3 years ago
Well, unless I'm mistaken, I think I've noticed that judges themselves can be nicely influenced by a massive, and massively hostile, public outcry to deliver a certain outcome.
Assuming this for a moment, had the attorneys gone public with the information, something in me has a feeling that the rules you're stating would undergo the usual "legal miracle": they would suddenly become a lot more open to fluid, radical interpretation than a person might read strictly from the printed page.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
That's why activism exists... to put pressure on the controlling institutions through inspiring awareness... and youre right, the lawyers essentially stuck with "lawyering" (over trying something like "activism") as the means to help this guy. Ppl pick their battles over what to adhere to and I know that sounds too compromising... but I do think those guys made a commendable choice re how to best help someone in light of circumstances
Here's to hope for thousands of others wrongly convicted
acrediblesource 3 years ago
2.I meant "resolved" sarcastically - yeah I mean it's inaccurate and unfair- you and I both know they do NOT get to the bottom of these gutwrenching criminal cases, they work quickly, make mistakes, but keep moving and don't look back...Meanwhile, there's a whole sub-class of ppl locked up.
After DNA testing was introduced in IL, a significant %of ppl on death row were exonerated (not guilty by AFFIRMATIVE dna proof)-it was so bad the Republican governor put a moratorium on the death penalty
acrediblesource 3 years ago
He put a moratorium on the death penalty, or a moratorium on death penalty reviews?
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
The old governer put a moratorium on the carrying out of capital punishment itself in 2000, in light of a # of death row inmates found to be innocent through newly-introduced dna testing (it was so outrageous that even a conservative governer had to admit you can't just execute people when a substantial # of those on death row are wrongly convicted). Ppl can still be sentenced to death in IL, but cannot currently be executed b/c of this moratorium...
acrediblesource 3 years ago
Well, that's a refreshing piece of good news in an otherwise horrible world.
Of course, I'm sure that there are plenty of devout cruelists around who are pretty mad about the lack of unjust death going on. And, yes, there really are those kinds of people around... many more than you would probably want to ever know.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
I've been all over the country and have seen all but a few states in the continuous 48. I do like the change in seasons but, I'm finding it more difficult to get through the long winters here.
It was good for my soul to finally get across country and see the rest of this beautiful Continent we all live on.
Happy belated B-Day David!
Take Care, Chuck :)
chuck1967 3 years ago
Thanks, Chuck.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
Pacific NW, I'm in Spokane, WA and have been thinking about moving to Portland, OR for a long time now. I just might do it soon, I lived in Seattle for 2 years, here now for the past 7 years and before that I lived in LA, CA for a year after leaving the place where I was born and raised, So, FL.
chuck1967 3 years ago
Well, Portland is very bolshevik and hipster. It has a very French sort of attitude about life. If that's your thing, then give it a whirl.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
The unjust justice system. The rich criminal murders get away with it legally and the rest of us poor SOB's rot in jail, yeah that's real justice for ya. The rich make all the laws and sentences carried out that the poor people all must live under. Then we wonder why everyone is so screwed up in the head in this country. LOL! Violence and murder in just about everything you see, games that endorse it and a government that allows it's men and women to fight it's dirty wars. Culture of violence.
chuck1967 3 years ago
When John DuPont shot that live-in wrestling teacher right in front of his family, he was judged to be mentally unsound.
*shrugs*
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
I've never been a violent person. I think some people are predisposed to violence whether it be because of the way they were raised or maybe there is a bit of arrogance about it and some might think it's OK to resolve things that way. But for whatever the reason there is always a disconnection that happens when people commit violence. They lose control and because they are socially inept they are frustrated and feel it's the only way they can be understood. Too much visual violence. It's sad. :(
chuck1967 3 years ago
Ahh, been a few days since your last vid, was wondering where you were.
26 years...he was in jail for 5 years before I was even born. A 'Nightmare Travesty of Justice' indeed...I can't even begin to imagine trying to go back to living a normal life after that...
Saedin 3 years ago
Yeah... And, normally, I have mixed feelings about these stories of wrongful imprisonment, but this one was just so egregiously evil.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
hmm...correct me if im wrong..[what ive heard]..he can now murder someone for real and not get punished?
rac99992001 3 years ago
Why would that be the case? Are you talking about "double jeopardy"?
Double Jeopardy means that if you've been found innocent of a crime, that you can't be charged again later for the same specific crime... meaning the same, precise event.
In other words, you couldn't be charged twice for the same murder or whatever of the same exact person. But if you murdered someone else, you most certainly could.
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago
yikes. that's intense.
dubaiedge 3 years ago
thats good news, I think its weird that your b-day is 4-20 cuz everyone i know who shares that bday is a stoner, and thinks it gives them a right to be a stoner (not like its any of my busness) but I don't think having the same b-day as hitler a day that stoners celbrate and don't rember why that day was choosen (they were probly stoned when they chose it) but cellibrate it none the less
and yay my b-day is the 22 also know as earthday, and i share it with betty page
toadenk 3 years ago
hahahahah...
No, I'm definitely not a stoner. Pot makes me way too paranoid, and there's already way too much stuff going on in this world to make me way paranoid.
But Happy B-Day on the 22nd, you and Betty Page. Woo hoo
TheLogicJunkie 3 years ago