COSMOS: The Shores of the Cosmic Ocean (Part 5 - 6)

[inconsp1cuous1515]

2000 years to rediscover that the Sun doesn't orbit the Earth?? ...Gee I wonder why.. The more he talks about the library, the more sad I get -- and the more I fucking hate religion..

[325982668]

if i see another "quantum jumping" on these videos add my head will fucking explode. carl sagan must be spinning in his grave.

[sankoboy]

i dont get it. If the info was lost, how do we know so much about this disintegrated library and all of its scrolls and the info it had? If we knew the info it had in them, then it was never lost?

[gleehmee]

@sankoboy We know roughly how much was stored. but we don't know fully what those books contained.

[sankoboy]

@gleehmee if i told you I invented a pencil and my design and all of its knowing is destroyed, then how would you tell me later that I invented this pencil if all of my doing was destroyed. If you had the ability to know my doing and design of the pencil then my invention was never lost...do you understand where im coming from? you can't know the unknown

[gleehmee]

@sankoboy You analogy is just plain nonsense, sorry, WHAT?

To address the last point:

We know there were books/scrolls. We know the books contained 'something' even if it was just blank paper. We know in general libraries do not contain mainly "empty" books. Therefore it is safe to assume the books contained knowledge of some type. We know the books were lost. Therefore we know we lost some knowledge, or it is at least safe to assume so.

[Jtosar77]

"Showing that intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being...dead wrong." Brilliant!

[moother888]

1 ppl dislike this

[truthseeker010101]

@moother888 that was probably an accident

[AkiKaza3829]

"Until studied, these scrolls were collected in great stacks called....books...from the ships."

LMAO XD omg ilu sagan~

[zenzombie72]

What did Snuffleupagus discover?

[RJL738]

For all we know there were the equivilant of millions of books of knowledge or there may have been more than one library. The fact that they would search people for books is amazing if only we could be that determined to capture knowledge. They may have discovered things we can't imagine. Imagine in every culture was like this had several libraries of their own were knowledge was persued and none of those was so much as damaged by a storm let alone detroyed, all of those books.

[derekxnl]

We take our accumulated knowledge for granted. This could happen all over again if we let it.

[siukong]

2:04 LOL LIBRARY

In all seriousness though, what a tragedy to have lost this true "wonder of the world".

[Derestisgeschiedenis]

Like how Carl Sagan just leans against that ancient globe at the end ;-)

[xxDrudgeryReportxx]

While I am an atheist I must say we know more about that Library of Alexandria now then when Carl was filming this. It seems that it was not burnt by Christians.

[shkotay]

@xxDrudgeryReportxx Thanks to the religious dark ages we lost 1500 years of advancement. The library was then what our universities are today,and stritctly academic science based learning has mostly been over the last century where you didnt have to worry about being killed for advancing science.

[MisterEvasion]

Wikipedia of the ancient world. Carl would have loved wikipedia as being the sum of human knowledge continually being added to. All religions that become politically organized seem to destroy anything that is a threat to its power.

[Nexfero]

0.05 "DANK and forgotten cellar"

[palebluedot]

My heart shreds every time I hear "Library of Alexandria".

[UnBoundBeatz]

The Human Civilization would be thousands of years ahead of where it is now. We would be in space and meeting other species of humanoids to tell them of earth and give them out knowledge. We would be like star trek. If only nothing was lost from that great library. Our history would be so much different from now. There woulds probably be no USA or Canada but instead different country s in which there would be peace. RIP Carl Sagan. Forever a lost great mind to the world! 

[capoman1]

Is this some match moving in 1980?

[ToniBabelony]

The destruction of the Great Library of Alexandria may never be forgotten and may never be forgiven. Such a setback of human knowledge and such a long line of ancient history lost to mankind. Only we humans are to blame for our own shortcomings, but we are a species who learn from mistakes. We pay a high price for it... Sometimes too high a price.

[DoctorGreyMD]

@ToniBabelony "We are a species who learn from mistakes." I completely disagree. Mankind shows a remarkable lack of interest in history, and this leads to the repetition of past mistakes, from the persecution of the Native Americans by colonists seeking refuge from religious persecution, to the eventual persecution of the Jews, from the enslavement of Hebrew people to the enslavement of Africans. Over and over mankind proves that it cannot learn from mistakes made in history.

[Threefaced1]

@DoctorGreyMD Chinese culture is very interested in history, historically.

[DoctorGreyMD]

@Threefaced1 And, interestingly enough, they are doing pretty well as a country :)

[amorphousguy]

The library would never have been destroyed if theistic magic wasn't introduced to society.

[tskasa1]

If it weren't for the Dark Ages and the Burning of the Library, according to technological growth models, we'd be exploring the Galaxy now. THE FUCKING GALAXY.

Goddamn it... THANK YOU Religion, because of you, Sagan didn't get to meet Spock...

[Elcore]

@tskasa1 On the other hand, it could be a good thing that we keep ourselves in check every few thousand years or so. When the Roman Empire fell, it was technologically advanced, but too large and difficult to govern to make proper use of its technology. Sadly we might be due a few more falls before we're ready to ride the Spock train, baby.

[tskasa1]

@Elcore

Not at all. The Romans didn't fall BECAUSE of technology. They fell due to a combination of political instability, bad military campaigns, bad treasury, hordes of barbarians, civil unrest, dissention amongst the ranks, lack of morale, and more.

There has NEVER been a time in history, EVER, when technology has NOT been an advantage.

[Elcore]

@tskasa1 I think you may have misread my comment, or be too high on science to understand English. Either way, I didn't say that technology was a disadvantage to the Romans.

[tskasa1]

@Elcore

Well, I only put it that way in case you were making a negative. Within your statement I didn't hear any actual case against technology. You just stated 3 seperate points

1) It's good to keep ourselves in check

2) Rome fell because it had tech but not the ability to use it

3) We won't be in Deep Space until a few more Dark Ages

[AGenericAccount]

At 0:04, why did Sagan kick that can?

[3LARI]

The CG in this programme is bloody brilliant for the 70's or whenever this was made. I see much worse on television today. Impressive.

[dprague]

Religion creates ignorance. Ignorance creates hate. Hate creates pain.

[3LARI]

@dprague hate leads to the dark side :P

[andersv20]

I just love emphasis whenever he sais ... BOOKSSs..

[bangooisgood]

@andersv20 ROFL

[TheCite]

Best. Show. Ever.

[Zeropointbug]

WheelLock, the only place the "dark ages" happened was Europe and regions surrounding. No, Asia and especially China was flourishing at this time, and in fact came to North America long, long before Columbus.

[ThumpR8080]

@Zeropointbug and? what possible relevance does that have with his statement? knowledge destroyed is wisdom lost, and we as a species as lesser for it, period.

[cartmanSPP]

It was in the Christian Dark Ages that vast amounts of knowledge was lost... and I wonder sometimes if we are experiencing an Inquisition of our own right now...

Churches burning the Origin of Species, people killing doctors, ramming cars into clinics, crashing planes into buildings, denying modern medicine to an 11 year old girl, introducing fairytales into the classroom, and imposing Sharia Law, all in the name of their gods.

[Cleric775]

@cartmanSPP Same business as usual. Destroying access to knowledge for the many, so only the few can have them.

Typical M.O. for the Illuminated Ones.

[KommanderKalissan]

@cartmanSPP If you want to be pessimistic and find a scapegoat, then sure.

[matatan69]

@cartmanSPP We are living an inquisition but contrary to your argument is not the fault of religion but by the mass publicity ideas which bombards millions of people with mediocrity and vanity wich drives people into believing in problems that are not problems at all in order to sell their products using the oversexualisation of TV programs, rap culture , absurd movie role models, idolatry of the evil and tons of other non sense, pushing nowadays society into a deep world of ignorance!.

[danilosierrac]

@matatan69 Amusing ourselves to death?

[matatan69]

@cartmanSPP I wil use your mediocre way of thinking in an other manner, Since Illicit drug's proliferation is cause because drug is a banned substance making it more attractive to people my conclusion is the following. The fact that science practices and observations were banned by the church made its practice more appealing to many. science became to the medieval man what drug is to the nowadays teeanger. So scientific discoveries are to be attributed to inquisition imposed by the church.

[obie1201]

@matatan69 That is an absolute insane argument. In those days the Church had no issue with killing and torturing people in the name of God. Even Galileo (a devout Catholic) was imprisioned, tortured and had his familiy threatened because of his discoveries. It wasnt until 1979 that the Pope acknowledged that they were wrong. Knowledge was treated as evil. The Church tried to keep the faithful ignorant through intimidation and brutality.

[screat]

@cartmanSPP Makes me wonder how advanced we'd be as a species without that fukin crap...Stem cell research especially

[truthseeker010101]

@cartmanSPP there is a new enlightenment today, toward desim. How we forget the first enlightenment in so few generations is frightening.

[TheTheking1935]

@cartmanSPP This is a rather ignorant, bigoted statement. Carl Sagan is tremendous, but he's no substitute for an education. Christianity didn't bring the Dark Ages. On the contrary, Christianity was the only light in the Dark Ages. What else accounts for the thriving Christian empire of Byzantium? (See: John Julius Norwich, generally.) In any case, the Dark Ages thesis is largely discredited of late.

[TheTheking1935]

I should have said, "watching the Cosmos is no substitute for an education."

[Strangerinasland]

@TheTheking1935 Humanity has been in the Dark Ages since they 1st started believing in gods & valuing faith more than reason & using religious beliefs as an excuse for treating each other horribly. 

[camiblack1]

@TheTheking1935

Mostly because it wasn't dark to them and what we find of it isn't dark to us, in the knowledge sense.

It's a dark age because we know so little about what was going on between The Fall of Rome, an the Rise of Charlemagne. It's dark because we have very little clue what went on.

[camiblack1]

@cartmanSPP

Said vast amounts of knowledge having been destroyed by an accidental Roman fire at the beginning of Imperial Rome. Compounded the fall of the Western Empire, driving cities and villages that had once been connected by the Pax Romana, into a violent and utter darkness, at the end.

And this folks is why you should also pay attention in Humanities like History, otherwise you sound like someone with an ax to grind, rather than someone who looks for knowledge.

[Canvasian]

@cartmanSPP actually if it weren't for islamic scholars preserving the works of the ancient greeks, and then Catholic Crusaders bringing those works to Europe, we would not have the works of say, Aristotle. Religion hinders progress and knowledge in a lot of ways, but it's not so black and white as to imply that religion is always a hinderance.

[HORNHost]

I find it interesting that Sagan stopped short of blaming the superstitious monsters of the early church for the destruction of the library.

I wonder if this was a function of making science palatable or if he was censored for the sake of PBS and corporate sponsors.

[jeevesbond]

@HORNHost He tells the story of Hypatia in the last episode of Cosmos, and mentions that Christians were responsible.

[BillF1967]

What wonders were in the books of Berosus?

[rosewind26]

I, being an emotional person, cry at the loss of the library... is our own media any less in danger of that fate, I feel we should put resources into protecting our legacy for the future. Not a lot I mean lets get to the point of having a future but the falacy of media preservation haunts me.

[informationplz]

being intellectually brilliant is no guarantee against being d e a d w r o n g . That shows he's really into the guts of science. Astrology pseudoscience nonsense. PROOF& FACTS.

Thank you Dr. Sagan for your service to our species.+

[uzmakikunai1]

Imagine where we could be today if these scrolls had not been lost... if the libraries and observatories had stood for many more centuries...

[yumihitomi]

I love what he said about Ptolemy at 3:50. :)

[srogers210]

I think the views dropped because carl came back to earth which we think we know all to well.

[highlanderclan]

Lost Knowledge of the Ancients, what a waste. It is amazing what they knew 2000 years ago. So much lost for 1500 yrs..

[JOEFRO2]

Denied by the blind church

'cause these are not the words of God

- the same God that burnt the

knowing~Lost Wisdom Burzum

[cookiecache2]

Anyone else notice how the view count goes down significantly with each part of the show?

[CriMeY181274]

Maybe not everyone watches all six parts and pull out half way through..??

[cookiecache2]

That was kinda the point, rocket scientist.

[russell1e]

yeah people tend to get bored with shows... still, this isn't bad for part 4~

[GeorgesBarras]

The U.N should commission a new Alexandria, or a city on that model. A city of intellect.

[Averyofthemain]

The UN should commission nothing, they are a den of robbers and false intellectuals, rather a wealthy man with a passion for science should contruct it and invite the world's thinkers to work.

[smeeeches]

FUND IT!

[painstrulove]

Great video!

[Nikechagias]

greek, egyptian(coptic), hebrew, sanskrit, latin.Alexandria the capital city of Humanity.

[Daharen]

Can you imagine where we'd be today were it not for The Library of Alexandria being burned... At least 100 years ahead of where we are today, if not 700... All that knowledge gone... Hopefully nothing like that ever happens again...

[GeorgesBarras]

We have to protect ourselves from the wrath of the ignorant. There is a disconcerting multitude who believe science to be evil.

[KevServo]

If there is a God, and if he believes science to be evil, why did he give us the capacity to understand it?

[jinitron]

It was the Apple in the Garden.

Simply.

Any time a christian gets cornered on god/world/universe being 'imperfect' they lable the Apple as the reason.

Quite simply, that's why the story was constructed that way! The ancient hebrews could not explain an imperfect world any other way.

[WheelLock]

yeah think where we would be if the "dark ages" never happened.

[LoryLandskipper]

@Daharen

One could argue those events were necessary for our survival. For instance, had the Catholic church not suppressed science for as long as they did, we might have had nuclear weapons hundreds of years sooner.

Humanity walks a line that balances between what we're capable of intellectually, and the ignorance in the world that holds us back. We could cure cancer today, but a warlord could end it all.

2 thousand years from now, the dumbest people could equate to today's most brilliant.

[emikochan13]

@LoryLandskipper People aren't any smarter today, they just have more prior knowledge to build on, more free time away from surviving to hone their minds. I'd imagine the person that invented fire and the wheel were also geniuses.

[shkotay]

@Daharen 1500 years of advancement we lost when it was gone.....thanks to religion and politics. 1500 years....where would be be now? We might literally have been among the stars. We cannot ever let religion do this to us again, and daily religious types try to drag us back to the dark ages to "save our souls".

[7anmv]

Here's To All He Is, All He Was Or Ever Will Be. Great Man.

[terrasidius]

excellent! again! thanks :D