Ravi Zacharias & Michael Ramsden - Evidence, Reasons and Faith for Jesus & Crucifixion

[spud2ooo]

this awesome love his ministry

[JoyceeBean1]

great post! thank you hush and learn. Great name by the way!

[pacificrules]

If one requires evidence of Jesus' resurrection, then I recommend that one must "seek and you will find" and with continuity and committment... one of the many examples for starters is the Shroud of Turin and scientist will tell you something amazing... of course, go on from there.

[Rollogic]

I like Michael and Ravis response, but This guy in the audience I think was asking a serious question, so why is the whole audience keep laughing while Michael is talking. Kind of annoying and interruptive.

[polopowers1]

Every man believes words and assimilates their meaning by compilations and comes to a conclusion. All men do this they hear or read words and believe whatever.The problem is man is working with a defective brain dying out daily.It cannot be trusted for absolute conclusion. Quoting scholars who have this problem does not help faith. Either God by His Spirit reveals Himself to powerless man or they do not know Him.

[polopowers1]

All men believe the computation of the words they read or they don't believe them.They use perception out of physical brains of their given history with life.But neither man believing Christ's resurrection or not has power on their own to accept Christ's statements. Man is powerless with knowledge to accept or not accept what they believe they need a power greater than themselves to accept perfect truth

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>But neither man believing Christ's resurrection or not has power on their own to accept Christ's statements.

--To the contrary, the advantage that the Bible was written by people is because people want eye witnesses...and the resurrection of Jesus Christ is not coming only from one person but for several accounts and eye witnesses. These apostles were shy at the beginning and at the end give up their life with horrible and martyrs death; for a lie? I don't think so.

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn So what your saying is they could trust perceptions for the supernatural? No God must interfere or like Joseph Smith be deceived in what he was seeing.All thought is from a brain of depleting health and is dying it cannot be trusted even multiple men together perceive when it comes to God He must supernaturally give the power of true faith to believe

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>So what your saying is they could trust perceptions for the supernatural?

--If you read my comment again, you'll see I am talking about eye witnesses, not perceptions need it. In the case of Joseph Smith is completely contradictory of the at least 50 prophets of the Bible for something we are warned in [2 Corinthians 11:14].

And talking about faith, no one in this planet is exempt of it; is just that our faith is reasonable and historical,yours like others is not.

Take care...

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn If you read my comment you would read it does not matter how many eye witnesses its all perception.Man cannot perceive by sight or sound God He is totally powerless without God overcoming intellect to know God by the spirit of wisdom and knowledge. Eph 1:17

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 This is what you said ""So what your saying is they could trust perceptions for the supernatural?"" & I comment back that I never implied that because they r not using perceptions there. Now what you're saying is that ""Man cannot perceive by sight or sound God"" that has nothing to do with the fact to see the body of Jesus living up again after His death. Your implication of [Eph 1:17] has nothing to do with the fact of what they see, & if they have it is because the resurrection.

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn Simply, I'm saying man's knowledge or experience has nothing to do with faith. Ravi implied this.No man believes because God is working with what they see and experience by knowledge. When the disciples saw the resurrected Jesus this did not consummate their faith. Ravi implied this as well.All the faith I have to first believe is a gift and so it was for the disciples.Because people have" witnesses" it will not give them genuine faith this is a gift from God Eph 2:8,9

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>Because people have" witnesses" it will not give them genuine faith this is a gift from God Eph 2:8,9

--Yes, faith is a gift, but Christian's faith is a logical, coherent & reasonable faith.You can have faith in Allah, Buddha, evolution, etc. but that's not a reasonable faith nor even a coherent one. What [Eph 2:8-9] talks about, is faith thanks to His own works through Jesus Christ and not our own works; since faith is an own will (in case you don't believe in free will).

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn How does someone get a freewill?

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>How does someone get a freewill?

--How you explain rapists? Or human Chaos for that matter?

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn All men are totally powerless rapists, murderers,or proud individuals.There is no difference in powerlessness. Unless you think your better by freewill than a rapist. Does everyone have the same amount of freewill? So the person with the greater use of knowledge chooses Christ,both given the same amount of Spirit and Word ? What is freewill where does it originate, experience with discipline ?

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>All men are totally powerless rapists

--So ladies are powerless abused?

>>Unless you think your better by freewill than a rapist

--Who do it, God or themselves? Who is the one u r blaming for that?

>>Does everyone have the same amount of freewill?

--You are confusing the will to have something we don't, with the will to do something we have

>>What is freewill where does it originate?

--Is like what is trinity? Just because u don't understand something mean it can't be.

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn I never called your stuff weird.Because you don't understand God is not moral but exceeds morality you can listen to understand.God is not morality but much better in Virtue being a perpetual Virtue God not a God of law.It is in the Bible for those who search the strong meat of the Nature Of God and not rhetoric. Never challenged what I consider your thoughts as weird and immature .Just because you have not yet understood what most fail to see.Christ is God's Virtue not morality

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>Because you don't understand God is not moral but exceeds morality you can listen to understand

--You haven't respond to the question, where are you getting your morals? Where are they coming from?

Stop going around the question and go straight to it. Where are you Biblical reference to support such claims? Because I can't see any. Are you Calvinist?

Regards.

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn Ladies abused by pride arrogance and this is less effective sin because it is a better freewill sin?.I do understand freewill if you need explanation.Freewill believes men have an innate virtue of good being created in the image of God, but Adam also ate evil.Freewill believes men can choose good and some men are better because they can hear the message and by better freewill receive Christ. I had nothing to do with my choice to receive Christ and I'm totally powerless

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>Ladies abused by pride arrogance and this is less effective sin because it is a better freewill sin?

--Who you blame then? who is the one inducing them to rape?

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn In other words you were attempting to say if there is no free will God ordained a terrible act( rape) but we minimize pride of intellect as something else God would have had to ordain and we minimize freewill sins by saying our personal freewill would not rape therefore making our freewill better than that of a rapist.Freewill suspends God's perpetual virtue because once man has a power of knowledge independent of God God is neither all powerful all the time neither omniscient cont

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn God cannot suspend His self existing Life. Virtue independent of God suspends His self existing life. Freewill cannot exist unless God suspends Himself,which is impossible.God exceeds morality which is the nature of law. God is not equal to law in virtue but exceeds law in perpetual virtue. Law is not perpetual. God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil not an innate virtue of Himself but a knowledge attribute God called good.So the evil rapist is powerless man like us.

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>God cannot suspend His self existing Life. Virtue independent of God suspends His self existing life.

--With this I will explain both of ur comments. First of all you can NOT have a moral law WITHOUT a moral law GIVER! Therefore you can NOT have independent virtue form the GIVER of that virtue. As Ravi explain here:

watch?v=DmQq12NIE0k#t=202

You CAN'T talk about an effect ignoring the cause, therefore a CAUSER of that moral/virtue. You CAN'T have ANYTHING without a GIVER (GOD).

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn I agree you cannot have a moral law without a moral lawgiver what I don't believe is that God reveals Himself in that law as the Virtue of whom He is.This is where Ravi is dead wrong! He equates God as being equal to moral law and therefore calls God moral. .The moral law was only to prove man cannot be moral and that God exceeds all moral laws.God exceeds morals and is perpetual virtue which the moral law is not.Only God's perpetual virtue will live for eternity not His moral law

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>what I don't believe is that God reveals Himself in that law as the Virtue of whom He is

--Then who? And what is your issue here? Sin? Is sin that keep you away from truth and accepting scriptures?

>>He equates God as being equal to moral law and therefore calls God moral.

--Well then where are you getting your morals? Nothingness? Where do you get them from? Nowhere? It seems like you are a Calvinist Muslim.

Where are you getting all that kind of weird stuff/ideas by the way?

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn Simply,Christ is my virtue from all of scripture not just old testament law.Christ is my Virtue by the fruit of His Spirit.God gave the law not to be an end in itself.The law is morality, frustration, it cannot explain whom God is by Nature.The law is impossible to keep and all who attempt it should consider themselves powerless.Christ is not the ten commandments in morality He exceeds commandments in virtue.God's love truth, mercy,compassion are always magnified.The law is plain

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>The law is impossible to keep and all who attempt it should consider themselves powerless.

--So you don't need to repent from sin? then I am wonder what the Bible is all about: [Mark 6:12], [Acts 2:38], [Matthew 5:48], [John 8:11], etc., etc., etc.

Sir, stop giving excuses, repent from your sins and trust in Jesus. If you stop sining your life will be a bless and your life will be improve. If you fall down, stand up and don't stay down there.

God bless.

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn God is magnified holiness. He is an expansion of Himself in self existing Life.Morality is simple in commandments and works. As a believer I'm not to express virtue by law but by Spirit.If the law says don't steal I'm not to steal only but give.God is perpetual means you cannot finish an expression of God with words about His morality because He is more. Love, truth, and mercy is the expansion of Himself in Life. He is never a finished Virtue though immutable He magnifies Himself.

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>God is perpetual means you cannot finish an expression of God with words about His morality because He is more.

--But that doesn't mean not to stop sining, He compel us to try and keep trying. Not just be sitting and see when you think of feel when He is going to change you if you don't have the will.

Virtue is practice of moral excellence or righteousness, but that doesn't mean God is immoral just because He is above, to the contrary.

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn If you think in terms of morality for example a man is killed for picking up sticks on the Sabbath God seems unfair for justice. Christ died not just for sins or the breaking of moral law.Seeing there is a change of priesthood there remains also of necessity a change of law Heb 7:12 Christ died in measurement of whom God in Virtue is( through out eternity )and not just for breaking of morality in time and space.Aaron was the Priest of morality Melchesidek of Virtue magnified

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 -This is going to be the third time I think I ask the same:

1. Where do you get your morals and who's morals should we follow?

2. Are you Calvinist?

Don't go around the question, just go straight to it. Thanks.

[polopowers1]

@HushAndLearn I don't live by morals. I don't know how to be more clear. Christ was led by liberty Of Spirit. The liberty of Spirit is not morals or law .Virtue of Spirit is better than morals.The morals of old testament law are NOT equal to the Virtue of Christ. God is not equal to moral law in Nature.I cannot make it any more clear .Believers are not moral but led by Spirit. Goverments and religion run by moral laws .The fruit of the Spirit is not morality but exceeding virtue free

[HushAndLearn]

@polopowers1 >>I don't live by morals, I don't know how to be more clear

--So its ok for necrophilia, zoophilia, homosexuals, orgies, etc. to do so, if its moral to them? And therefore not repent from it, because we don't know if its moral clear? I guess everybody now is going to Heaven because we don't know anything. Are you kidding?!

>>The morals of old testament law are NOT equal to the Virtue of Christ

--Moral & virtue IS the same! Virtue is a is moral excellence! What am I missing here?

[blueicemint22]

@HushAndLearn you missed the author of morals that you consider...who is the Author of the morals you believe? post-modern thinking... Back to the real meaning pls.

[HushAndLearn]

@blueicemint22 >>you missed the author of morals that you consider...who is the Author of the morals you believe?

--The only absolute. The truth and the life from who we are created...God in Jesus Christ. Depart from His commandment, what good you have out of that?

Love create and preserve, hate just kill and destroys; and the only source you can claim that love is just from Jesus Christ, nowhere else.

Hope that help.

Kind regards...

[blueicemint22]

@HushAndLearn Amen brother! hehe... I'm a Christian too... thanks for posting the videos!

[vincentjdrummer]

Michael Ramsden is incredibly funny btw :-)

[Kiwichico]

What was the evidence? I think I missed it.

[ilgattofatto]

@Kiwichico there is no evidence, again the same bull shit, waste of time

[HushAndLearn]

The evidence is your own body, random chance is the craziest fairytale idea for adults.

[ilgattofatto]

@HushAndLearn random chance is just a way to make it easy to explain, try to investigate more deeply and u'll see that it's way more complicated and "logic" (that little word that most of u dislike) than that. u'll find out that the way life works according to evolution makes us even more lucky to be here. the level of "craziness" depends on ur own perception, and perception doesn't work as evidence, science doesn't says creationism is crazy, it says is not logic

[HushAndLearn]

@ilgattofatto. Evolution try to understand the function, not the origin of that function. Is not only a matter of logic but a matter of truth and facts & the fact of the matter is that matter has no intelligence nor purpose to do anything & much less to know what it is adaptable & what is not by its own. Is like throwing a bucket full of letters in the air & make a dictionary, as crazy as that.

Regards...

[vincentjdrummer]

@Kiwichico The testimony of the early church.

The different writings in the New Testament itself are evidence.

There's four gospels, so at least four testimonies to the resurrection.

Besides a predisposition to disbelieve anything that involves God physically interacting with His creation there's no strong reason to think these testimonies are unreliable. Witnesses died for the belief in the resurrection, so they were not lying in their writings. That's an argument Michael mentioned in passing

[Kiwichico]

@vincentjdrummer

Michael Ramsden is funny because he understands the irony. In a court of law the witnesses may be deemed as being impartial as they were all closely connected. People die for many different religions. If it was an account given by people unrelated, then it could be more of a case. However, I agree with what he said, that is, truth and reality of the claim may become more evident to an individual through their ongoing experience, as he mentioned, his state of happiness.

[vincentjdrummer]

@Kiwichico What is it that binds the witnesses? That they're eyewitnesses of Jesus' life. If you then reject them because they're too closely connected it becomes circular: If they weren't witnesses of Jesus' life they wouldn't have a voice in court, if they were, they'd be too closely related. Yes people die for different religions, but that's not the same. You can have faith that your religion is true, but the apostles didn't need faith. The saw it all. Their death proves they didn't lie

[Kiwichico]

@vincentjdrummer Its not the fact that they were eye witnesses that binds them together but that they believed he was the Messiah before the resurrection. There have been a number of cases where people have thought they have seen the Messiah or a God and have died for them. Shintoism just to name one. If it wasn't all documented in one collection the Bible and was related to by different testaments accounted for elsewhere who are not believers like the Romans then you may have a case.

[VyckRo]

Good video, thanks

[Nephtali1981]

jesus lives, praise god