Our Government Sucks Because You Suck (part 2)

[dalaurya]

I just want to tell you that I love this video, and the title.

[EnhancingTheDialogue]

~ Yes for responsible citizens

! ~ Yes for self-educating about the political realm

~ Yes for defending your own best interests

! ~ YES FOR TAKING YOUR VOTE SERIOUSLY !

~ Yes for PARTICIPATING ~

[AtheistTech]

Google "Free World Charter"

[crud4]

(cont) Their old masters being land owners, landlords, bankers and bosses. America was "the new world" because none of the old social institutions were enforceable- one could leave the misery of being a European who was exploited at every turn and come to America and forge your own path free from wage slavery, rent and interest being payed to creditors in order to survive. Now that's the norm for most average Americans. TOTAL EXPLOITATION at every turn. FreeDumb.

[lamaddussa]

good points.

btw, i don't want any stuff, but it would be interesting if your recipients would post videos about getting your stuff. mostly, interesting to see who some of your viewers are. & less significant (to me) but maybe a bit entertaining to see what you're sending them.

[crud4]

Who's ignorant? I just took a cheesgrater to your fourth grade conception of American governance.

[McMuffin752]

@crud4 fuck off

[crud4]

@McMuffin752 Do you actually consider yourself a socialist? If so why would you tell me to fuck off? What specifically did I say that you don't agree with?

[crud4]

The great and chief end of mens uniting into commonwealth and putting themselves under government is the preservation of their property (wealth).

-John Locke-

[crud4]

"Democracy: a government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic�?negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of a majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudices or impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Result is demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy." -US ARMY training manual-

[crud4]

""The real difference between democracy and oligarchy is poverty and wealth. Wherever men rule by reason of their wealth, whether they be few of many, that is an oligarchy, and where the poor rule, that is democracy".

-Aristotle-

[crud4]

"Those who own the country ought to govern it"

-John Jay-

[crud4]

"Government ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority"

-James Madison-

[crud4]

"The point of government is to secure wealth and defend the rich from the poor"

-Adam Smith-

[crud4]

What ignorance. You're like a bad parody of grade school civics class. The system was set up to take power from kings and feudal lords in order to put power in the hands of merchants and traders (capitalists). The entire point of various bourgeois revolutions (1789 France/ 1770's America etc) was to create power structures where rich land owners, traders and merchants were at the top. Everything is working how it was intended to work. You're regurgitating propaganda taught to you since birth.

[xxcheesegraterxx]

N-n-no. YOU, my partially informed friend, are wrong. That may be the way it ended up but those were certainly not the intentions, you raging neurotic, trying to re-write history with a twist.

But, my point is that P.P. here, has dedicated time towards fixing this structural problem peaceably, whilst not rejecting the framework our Forefathers gave us (that framework being Democracy), that can still work if we are to take ourselves out of this moral slump. And P.P. has the best solution.

[crud4]

@xxcheesegraterxx Besides your ignorance surrounding the priority function of US government what do you know about the bourgeois revolutions in France and the USA? I'm not sure why you would deny the revolutions took place to take power from Royalty and put it in the hands on the land owners, merchants and traders. "We the people" weer never meant to have an actual democracy. Wise up man.

[crud4]

@xxcheesegraterxx So if you are willing to take an honest look at history, American history in particular, you'll realize the government was set up to first and foremost represent the interests of the rich. The intentions of early settlers was to escape the expanding institutions of wage slavery, rent and interest in Europe (your history books will tell you they were running from religious persecution). Anyhow their old masters followed them and set up the US government. cont

[rayoc]

@ThePunkPatriot I suggest reading Aldous Huxley's ISLAND.

[grungeface87]

You're right in everything you've said here, but I think a lot of what you've said also makes the sceptical position somewhat understandable, if not entirely justifiable.

[PositivelyBored]

307,006,550 total population

130,000,000 population voted in 2008 (for the two major parties)

That ain't good.

[savagelife64]

and.....does anyone that run for office really want to make a change? ever? they are not poor they do not care about rights of those that are poor and cannot fend for themselves......it seems that politics is a big popularity contest.....mind you, i do vote, just in case it matters but i definantly question it, and i really don't think it does.....i am no expert but i am curious to know what you think about this?

[tenaciousdennis]

@savagelife64 I ran for office in 2010. The previous four years I earned less than $7000 each year. I spent less than $700 on my entire campaign. I only took donations from individuals, of which I raised $175. I ended my campaign with $80 in my banking account.

I ran for realistic change, but the press and public chose not to pay attention to my campaign and voted for the Republican. I got 3% of the entire vote. Only 35% of the eligible voters went to the polls.

[tenaciousdennis]

@tenaciousdennis The only reason third party candidates don't win is because people don't vote for them because they believe they cannot win. CATCH 22 at the polls.

[tenaciousdennis]

The only reason third party candidates don't win is because people don't vote for them because they believe they cannot win. CATCH 22 at the polls.

[savagelife64]

sooo.....say everybody votes and the least corrupt memeber gets the most votes, but the government just weasles the other person in?? even if someone gets the highest votes, does that really mean that they can win? the gov does what they want......?

[cassandrabadie]

hey punk you think things are bad now, have you looked into the lds or mormon church, just read about what they have planned for this country if they get in to office. just think of the laws reflecting their church. that has been the goal since smith in the 1800's and if they got their way none of this will matter

[Saaduk92]

50% of the population are less intelligent then the average person, and therein lies the problem.

Voting is important but relying on the populous to remain informed isn't practical.

[KidOmniMan]

@Saaduk92 It is just another thing that responsible citizens need to do, inform fellow citizens.

[austin99203]

What's your opinion on peaceful anarchists?

[NocheezRecords]

@austin99203 The idea that anarchists aren't peaceful I think is not knowing at all what anarchism is. I think most are peaceful.

[austin99203]

@NocheezRecords As do I. I'm an anarchist myself. I just wanted to know what the Punk Patriots opinion is. Since he is big on the occupy movement, I wanted to know. The majority of the anarchists in the occupy movement give true anarchists a bad look and name.

[NocheezRecords]

@austin99203 I disagree, I think the Occupy movement is generally very peaceful. There will always be some people who turn towards violence in anything. Who says the violence comes from anarchists? The media? Calling guys in black t-shirts who smash a Starbucks window who were never caught or spoken to, must be anarchists? Big assumption. They don't know the true definition. Beware of sticking to any dogmas. I lean toward anarchism, horizontal democracy but am open to all ideas.

[SmokingNtheGraveyard]

I am interested, (and excuse me if you have already answered this and I just missed it), have you ran for political office before yourself?

[monkeyswithladders]

Excellent video brother.  I entirely agree with your reasoning here.

[NocheezRecords]

@monkeyswithladders I think most of Punk Patriots reasoning is based on the idea that we should allow representatives to do our bidding. I think that is ignorant. I would much rather prefer horizontal democracy. I don't want to spend countless hours getting someone voted in and "hope" they will be legitimate and be an honest leader, I'll take my freedom right up front. I don't need trickle down freedom. It's complete nonsense.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

"The world we have made as a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far creates problems we cannot solve at the same level of thinking at which we created them." - Albert Einstein. Watch Adam Curtis's 'Century of the Self' and other documentaries and all of John Pilgers films and documentaries and then see if you believe in anything anymore. It's do-over time boys and girls. If one is not prepared to sacrifice everything for liberty, what is it that one feels that they deserve?

[MrJbungie]

What about the tea party Republican obstructionist in Congress? Do I do them a favor, give them exactly what they want and hate the president deeply and blame him for everything? Or is it all a conspiracy and Obama and Republicans pretend to hate each other and are actually all really good friends laughing, high fiving and wiping their ass's with the constitution behind our backs? Still trying to figure that out I guess.

[reefnyc]

whats up with that wallpaper? some crazy shit going on back there. lol...(jk) great job on the videos, I share your shit on Facebook hope you got more subscribers because of it. Curious on what your thoughts are on Ron Paul?

[chrstsldr]

we might deserve the gov we got when we accept w/o question a constitutional amd that does not limit gov power (as did the 1st 10) b/ instead undoes a provision of the constitution

"No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

vs

"Congress shall have power to lay & collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, w/o apportionment among the several States, & w/o regard to any census or enumeration"

[j1grand]

It is amazing how things work! I literally was having these same arguments with people I know on facebook... Keep it up guy!

[kc8kte74]

Vote Ron Paul 2012!!!

[peternut1]

Well said. You are a shining beacon for the rest of the nation. KEEP IT UP!

[NocheezRecords]

I vote but I have no illusions those running will do something. By the way, not voting is not the same as voting for corrupt candidates. If one is active in grass roots organizations that are for positive change you really don't have to vote. I think we should instead demand that whoever is there does WHAT WE WANT. They are servants. I don't need their representation, they need to obey.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@NocheezRecords that is complete bullshit. You should run for office. THen you will be one of those running.

[NocheezRecords]

@ThePunkPatriot No I shouldn't run because I don't think it's the most effective way to make change, in fact historically voting hasn't made the changes, grass roots mass movements have. So I think historically you are incredibly incorrect. I am active so I feel I am doing something. Check out Howard Zinns "A Peoples History of The United States."

[NocheezRecords]

@ThePunkPatriot To be more clear, I vote because I do think there are small changes, and those small changes are still important. But real massive change comes from massive grass roots organizing. We need to force the hand of politicians who are only servants.

[NocheezRecords]

The Occupy movement is not just working outside the system, but working toward legislation so you are incorrect. I also agree we should be developing our own system at the same time and push them out. Make neighborhoods with organic farming, solar power, what ever, this is good.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@NocheezRecords The only way to work towards legislation is in the electoral process though.

[NocheezRecords]

Punk Patriot, which of the list of things you are asking people to do are you doing? Are you yourself an informed voter? How much time and information do you spend on it, and if I may ask, who would you vote for?

[ThePunkPatriot]

@NocheezRecords In order: 1) All of the above. 2) Always becoming moreso.  3) As much as I can. 4) I would vote for Ron Paul in the GOP primary, and Green Party candidate Jill Stein in the General Election. This is because there is no challenger to Obama in the DNC primary.

[NocheezRecords]

This is not a democracy by the way. We aren't really in charge. Participating? When a corporation can legally give money as free speech to a candidate they have an advantage. Our system says that is fine, not corrupt.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@NocheezRecords 60% don't vote, so no, this isn't a democracy.  It's a 40%-ocracy

[NocheezRecords]

@ThePunkPatriot Even if everyone voted, votes are not equal in reality and our establishments that are supposedly democratic do not function. Voting is a small part of it. Decisions like citizens united are a big part of the problem.

[NocheezRecords]

Sorry sir, the vote is one small part of it. Your idea is flawed, We should demand horizontal democracy, not a representative democracy. Representatives almost always represent themselves and can most always be corrupted by power. You have to change money effecting the system first. I do think voting has it's part though. The best way, and it is historical, is to get involved in democratic grass roots organizations. This is factual.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@NocheezRecords Horozontal democracy is possible at the local level.  Some new england towns still use the town hall meeting as their form of local gov't. Anybody can vote. Those town hall meetings could even be changed to run on consensus.

Scaling things up to the federal level, on the other hand...

[ProgressiveAudio]

@ThePunkPatriot @NocheezRecords Meh, these forms of democracy require practically everyone to be involved in it at all times, which is infeasible in a modern economy of hundreds of millions of people, they don't even work that well on the small local level.

[kevinpeno]

@ProgressiveAudio Exactly why the parliamentary process makes more sense than pure democracy at any level. Meeting once or twice a year is far easier for people to get together and debate than getting involved constantly. Additionally, it slows things down so people can actually discuss and think issues through. We Americans try too hard to rush things through legislation and look where it has gotten us.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@kevinpeno I agree, though I prefer the congressional model over parliamentary models.

[kevinpeno]

@ProgressiveAudio I'd agree with you I prefer gridlock over quick. often radical, change.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@kevinpeno Having an unstable legislature in the sense of multiple parties being forced into coalitions and to compromise is a good thing, this is why Europe for example is far more progressive.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@kevinpeno I never said I prefer "gridlock" I prefer congressional models over parliamentary because I prefer voting for individuals, not parties. Parliamentary systems are far more subject to gridlock.

[kevinpeno]

@ProgressiveAudio I'd disagree with you. Parliamentary systems are more efficient than congressional style systems because of they tend to hold almost absolute power in government (from the top down). However, these are mere words and we are arguing semantics at this point. In the the House of Representatives where checks and balances play gridlock is supposed to be the norm. Gridlock fosters debate and promotes rational change over radical or reactionary change and...

[ProgressiveAudio]

@kevinpeno Totally disagree, for one parliamentary systems are in fact more powerful than congressional systems, parliamentary systems do not typically have separation of powers, just look at the Prime Ministers in many countries.

[kevinpeno]

@ProgressiveAudio Do you have any stance at all? You've flopped in the words you've chosen 3 times now. I SAID that parliamentary systems are more powerful and more efficient (in argument to you saying congressional systems are instead). I also argued why congressional models (which are supposed to have the head separate at a minimum) cause gridlock within it, and why that gridlock is supposed to be good.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@kevinpeno "Do you have any stance at all? You've flopped in the words you've chosen 3 times now. I SAID that parliamentary systems are more powerful and more efficient "

I'm not flip flopping, I just don't get your stance. You want a more powerful legislature without a separation of powers with more control? Well okay, but that's less democratic and more problematic for civil liberties, but oh well.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@kevinpeno Efficiency is not what's needed, in fact our political system is quite efficient in enriching and empowering the 1 percent, a little chaos and instability is something that's absolutely vital to a working democracy.

[kevinpeno]

@ProgressiveAudio wtf are you even arguing about? I've agreed with you on these points. I WANT gridlock to decrease efficiency. I want checks and balances. As such, I prefer the U.S. Constitutional model. That doesn't make me not like the parliamentary process (the process of standing in forum and debating the issues, hitting gridlock, and not making deals of settlement).

[ProgressiveAudio]

@kevinpeno Oh well, you're hard to read as you can't create proper introductions. You said "I'd disagree with you. Parliamentary systems are more efficient than congressional style systems because of they tend to hold " to me saying "I prefer congressional models" so I assumed. Can't blame me for that kid.

[kevinpeno]

@ProgressiveAudio is supposed to prevent the growth and empowerment of government over its people.

[JohnDurandal]

The real path to change is things like instituting single transferable voting, lowering the voting age and the age to run for office, referendums and initiatives and recalls on a national level, etc.

Ironically a lot of these left wing anarchist probably praise the socialist govt. in Latin America, despite the fact they got to power through voting.

[JohnDurandal]

I love all the anarchist who come to your vids bitching about you trying to instill some civic responsibility, because if they acknowledge you're right, they're going to have to get off their asses and do something instead of going to parks having parties.

[jtropeano]

It's not the person in office that is the problem. It is the offices themselves. "A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." -Lysander Spooner.

[thisisbunk]

Ron Paul made this argument "We are the majority" with third party leaders at the National Press Club. From a strategic standpoint, it may appear a profitable venture to convince the "like-minded" to vote. However, ThePunkPatriot assumes democracy via voting produces good results. It is arguable that the title may in fact be more accurate than the analysis. (for example Google: econtalk caplan myth; Google: public choice powell)

[ProgressiveAudio]

I love Free and Equal, if they really do start up their campaign for P.R. here in California, I will help them out.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@ProgressiveAudio Contact Christina Tobin. She was Ralph Nader's Ballot Access Director in 2008, and after learning how f**ked up our ballot access laws were, she's been campaigning for reform ever since.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@ThePunkPatriot I have thought about contacting Tobin, though I have a full semester in a few weeks, so maybe I should wait until summer. Proportional Representation is something I've been for ever since High School, so Free and Equal is a great service.

[etzel33]

great upload... OCCUPY YOUR PRECINCT! Go outside and do something!

[foxworth1313]

Vote for Ron Paul, believe in the libertarian and progreesive alliance... Paul / Kucinich 2012

[emilnomel2009]

Dust off the guillotine and sharpen the blade!

[pat442389]

haah didnt paul wellstone die of a suspicious plane crash after fighting against Bush/ Cheney leading up to the Iraq war? and there is a "they" im not saying they control everything, or all world events but i dont think those in power with unlimited money will bow out easily. ur right we need to do a lot of work, problem is idk if everyone is willing 2 right now. i tend to think it will be another decade b4 ppl vote for real candidates and not down party lines.

[mistertakeda]

Awful lot of conspiracy theorists here today.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

@mistertakeda Yeah, a bunch of super powerful people get together in a meeting to decide what policies will dictate the direction of the human race. How weird, how strange, that only happens in the movies that the Hollywood propaganda machine puts out. Am I correct? The only conspiracy here is that the belief in a "conspiracy" has somehow become to mean that one is "crazy". A great way for people who are up to no good to get away with murder by putting forth this idea with MSM propaganda.

[mistertakeda]

@theoriginalprisonerX Again, awful lot of conspiracy theorists here today.

[LendMeYourHand]

Wow, sorry bud butt you're retarded. This is a very powerful Mafia organation. Anyone who has went after them was ASSASINATED. You dont vote shit. They control it all. Peaceful protest has NEVER worked. Thats documented history. This concept that blames Americans that were born into this complex mess abates any fundamental psychology. You dont blame the victim, its moronic & lacks any scientific proof. If you wish to blame the victim, then you are the violator.

[buddhagem]

The same people who routinely murder people around the globe and have peaceful citizens arrested and beaten here at home are going to give up power because you vote? Seriously? Have you really thought this through? Do you think votes are magical? Somehow the same 1% who has pushed to kill millions around the globe is going to bow down to your magical vote? You have so much to learn.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@buddhagem Votes are not magic. They are a measure of the popular will. If the popular will is measured to be in support of the bought congress and illegal wars and "fighting terrorism" by destroying the constitution, then that's what we get.

The fact that you abdicate your responsibility by not voting does not mean that you don't have blood on your hands.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

The banks own the system bro, the banks have to go first and then we can get some real politicians in there. Get rid of them, get rid of the problem, the too big to fails, not your local banks. And the international corporate special interests groups too, get rid of them, without that you might as well beat your head against concrete for no particular reason.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@theoriginalprisonerX And how exactly do you plan on doing that?

[theoriginalprisonerX]

@ThePunkPatriot By the sword. 

[theoriginalprisonerX]

And you can't say that MLK achieved his goal either. He freed black people with giving them their rights. Including the right to be good fascists. Many Jews in Mussolini's Italy were fascists. They loved it! Just check your history. So it's great that your free but what good is it if your political values align with totalitarianism? What makes a country great isn't running water or electricity, because the Nazi's had that stuff too, it's your political philosophy. And ours isn't good anymore.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

I subscribe to your channel bro because I really appreciate your concern and your message which I think is really positive and necessary as well. But I just think the time for playing nice is over with and we have to prepare for what is inevitably to come and that is the realization of Orwells 1984 and nothing short of violent revolution will stop it. All the folks in the past who tried to clean this mess up got themselves dead and their efforts were in vain. Sad and discouraging but true.

[thezachzachattack]

You can't get elected if you can't get media coverage.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

When they come to execute me even though I'm innocent. Would you and all the people holding protest signs (I really appreciate your concern) mind letting the people with the pitchforks and torches by so they can try and free me from the corrupt system? Because the odds of protest signs saving me at this point are rather bad and although the odds may not be all that much better with the people who want to kill the Frankenstein monster, the odds seem a bit better now. Sorry but thanks anyway bro

[TiradeFaction]

What free stuff?

[bbbbmer]

Honey, YOU need to do what you PREACH, especially with regard to your advocacy for RON PAUL....

[theoriginalprisonerX]

Maybe a guy like Bill Cooper could run. And maybe someone like JFK could run, and maybe like MLK could run and maybe someone like LIncoln could run and maybe someone could be deader than a hammer. I like being alive, not that I wouldn't give my life for liberty but if they could kill all those guys so easily then I guess I could also be a metal duck in a shooting gallery. There is a lot of common sense in cutting the kings head off with a sword, especially when that king likes stuff like NDAA.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

You base your premise on a belief that we live in a democratic Republic, sorry to say sir, we do not. Do you really think the military security complex, corrupt banks, big pharma will allow anyone real to attain power in this country? Really? LMFAO!!! They'll kill us all before they will allow that to happen. Why? Because if they don't, they won't have a job to go to anymore and that might starve their kids and they will kill you for that and their stupid narcissistic rapacious parasitic values.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@theoriginalprisonerX First, I call bullshit. Second, even if that's true, let's force them to show themselves for being the fascists they are. If you think they're fascists willing to kill us for voting, let's prove it.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

@ThePunkPatriot Just drink a glass of fluoridic water, hmmm, I think they're trying to kill us voters and think they're doing it right now, course that's just one example. They're busy SWAT teaming Amish people for drinking unpastuerized milk, and grandma and grandpa vegetable stands and trying, and winning, to get rid of vitamins and homeopathic. Great guys like Monsanto and Johnson and Johnson etc. they're busy doing it right now and succesfully. I still like the sword better like Jefferson.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

@ThePunkPatriot I didn't say it, Jefferson did; "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." I'm not saying don't do anything, what I'm saying is your solution has been tried again and again for the past 200+ years. See what we have now? Hmmm? Jefferson thought that we would need to have a revolution every 36 years I believe. But I guess I'm just a jerk who believes in dumb ole' guys like Jefferson and company.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@theoriginalprisonerX So what you're saying is, we should just continue abdicating self-rule, let the idiots run everything, and as everything goes to shit, use that result of our non-participation as a justification for our lack of participation?

[theoriginalprisonerX]

@ThePunkPatriot You assume human beings are much more evolved than they actually are and the assumption is erroneous. We have to concentrate on what can be done rather than what should be done, two very different perceptions. I can't recall any revolutions in the past that were non-violent even Buddhists had to develope a violent martial system to protect themselves. Primitives such as ourselves only understand three things; the sword that slays, the lash that descends and the yoke that breaks.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

@ThePunkPatriot But to be honest you are correct, this can start at the grass roots level, and it probably will anyway, the government is too oppressive at this point. And after much tribulation and many many many years we could probably correct the system to a point in which it's operation will be tenable. But would you mind if I keep my solution as an option? As a contingency plan? Because I'm alive now and I won't be around many many many years from now. I've been tortured enough already.

[theoriginalprisonerX]

@ThePunkPatriot He's the "free speech" guy. Remember?

[buddhagem]

@ThePunkPatriot They don't need to kill you for voting. They rigged that system long ago, in the words of James Madison--the principal framer of the constitution--to "protect the minority of the opulent from the majority." Third parties aren't new. Vote all you want; knock yourself out. Voting doesn't scare them. 

[ThePunkPatriot]

@buddhagem The GOP was a third party. The DNC was a third party. You don't hear much from the Federalists or Whigs these days, do you?

[ProgressiveAudio]

@buddhagem @acromagnonman Actually the only effective message you can give is through the protest vote, the only hope "Occupy" has is to start running candidates on their own ticket. I mean a majority of NYC citizens support them for example, imagine the waves an member of an Occupy ticket winning a seat on the City Council would cause.

[NocheezRecords]

@ProgressiveAudio Occupy should not run candidates, individuals can vote. You don't understand the movement at all by making such a statement. It is leaderless and should stay that way. The idea is to break away from your kings and queens, representatives (same thing) mindset and come into a new era of horizontal democracy.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@NocheezRecords I understand the Occupy movement more than you obviously, it's a movement that has served its purpose if all it wants to do is have party time at parks. It's raised awareness on income inequality and has inserted it into the national dialogue, and if people in the Occupy movement are not interested (though many are thankfully) in actually changing the system, they should gracefully move off the stage.

[ThePunkPatriot]

@ProgressiveAudio There is a division within the Occupy movement as to how to move forwards from here.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@ThePunkPatriot I know. The cynic in me thinks they'll just choose to do more protesting until they get bored and it will subside, but I do hope they actually choose to go into electoral politics.

[ProgressiveAudio]

@buddhagem The only place where progressive reforms has happened in the US in the past 20 years is Vermont, because of its third party scaring the Democrats into concessions.

[ThePositiveAussie]

"People crushed by law, have no hopes but from power. If laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to laws; and those who have much to hope and nothing to lose, will always be dangerous." ~ Edmund Burke (1729 – 1797)

[RickyMcGinnis]

Your congresswoman sucks. My representative (Larry Buschon) sucks as well. I hope the greens are running a candidate here in 2012.

[AlexMerced]

I approve of this video