Mr. 'psychdoctorate' you realize everything you're saying and viewing things from is using Psychology, or some of the various many different fields within Psychology. You're using all those ideas given to you by it, all those terms given you by it etc. How do you know you're right? How do you know Psychology is true or correct? A lot of other people who have studied Psychology say it's bunk. Who's right? You? lol
One reason he clings on to dear life in the pathological belief in the NPD parent/s' perfection is this. If the golden child ever admits to the pathology of his NPD parent/s, it means that he would have to give up his self-inflated belief in his superiority over the scapegoat. It also means that he has to give up the narcissistic and grandiose belief he is "the special one," and better than others.
We know he is defending the abuse to help ENFORCE the dysfunctional roles that were ordered and designated by the NPD parent/s. As I said, the golden child is a co-abuser. Here is an example of the golden child's co-depenence on the abuse! The golden child will defend the abusive NPD parents, and he will tenaciously deny the pathology of the NPD parent/s. He will fight anyone that acknowledges the pathology of the parents.
The golden child defends the abuser NPD parent/s. The golden child has definite "identify with the aggressor" traits. The golden child will find any irrational excuse for the NPD parent/s' abuse, and will defend the parents to the scapegoat. Religion is often used as an excuse for this. The golden child will tell the scapegoat that he or she is defying God by saying something negative abou the NPD parents, and may, for instance, deliver an "Honor thy mother and father" rap, but we know he is ju
The golden child will deny to the scapegoat that the abuse happened, and will even deny it throughout adulthood. The denial that the abuse took place is a (continuing) form of abuse. It is abusive, in that it is gaslighting, as it is denying reality to the abused. Hearing the denial that the abuse took place is crazy-making to the victim. The denial is meant to upset the abused scapegoat. The denial also invalidates the experience of the scapegoat.
I have thought of writing a book on the golden child. These are a few of my observations about him. The golden one is taught from an early age that abusing the scapegoat is socially acceptable, if not desirable, in or within the family. You have heard of co-dependents when it comes to alcohol. Well, the golden child is co-dependent when it comes to abuse, and by nature, the golden one participates in the abuse, and is a co-abuser. Both overt and absent abuse.
Right on. I went through this same stuff. I had 2 NPD parents, me the goat.The golden child in my family raged any time I even brought up the abuse. I finally had to cut them off. I don't see why I should have to cover up for child abusers. It was weird seeing him program his kids to mirror HIM in turn. It's like his own narcissism made him want to clone himself. His kids are loved based on their emulating and mirroring his grandiose beliefs about himself and his interests. It's creepy. I'm SO
Well it sounds like your family was certainly worse then mine. I was the lost one who was quiet yet much more talkative outside of school But I am also a introvert so I am less talkative anyway. I have thought of never seeing my family again but I am in no position to leave them right now although I don't live with them, I still fill some attachment to family and fear I wouldn't survive If I left them now as I am in no position to. I amgladyoucameoutofthe dark,showsdysfunctionalfamiliesarenojoke
YOU ARE NOT BOUND BY YOUR PAST YOU NEVER ARE BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO CUT IT OFF IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD IN YOUR LIFE".... WELL PUT I OFFICIALLY REALIZED THIS LAST NIGHT...NO MORE
I was all four of those kids wrapped in one. Is that possible? No wonder I'm screwed up. Where does a 4 year old who was molested twice by her father at the age of about 4 fit in?
They certainly do that in dysfunctional families. Lost Child & Scapegoat here.
I have no sympathy for these people that don't want to take any respocability for their own actions. They break up families then stand there screaming that they are mentally ill.
Thank you for that inspiring video. You've probably touched on a lot of people by now as also it was moving for me. Dad was so blinded by my sister's manipluative personality. She played the golden child. Mom was the abuser, Dad was the alcoholic. Mom played the father too, during dad's drinking days. She died and sister started getting matriarcal. Sister and Dad together estranged the rest of the family. He died June 2011 & she's sole heir of the family's Will. I am the bewildered son.
(4) I feel guilty because my GM is very sick from smoking most of her life. But then again, I feel it's not fair that I have to care for someone who was so emotionally abusive. She is still emotionally abusive and manipulating. I tried 2 have a relationship with my biological mother and father as well. But that went by the wayside. I still keep in touch with my father, but recently had to explain how I feel when he asks me for money. I really want to leave my family, but I am scared.
(3) What you've said is so true, because I have a family member who is considered the golden child and she talks down to me because she doesn't understand what it feels like to be me. I use to be a golden child, but I stopped trying to live up to everyone's expectations. Right now, I am in a position where I have to take care of my narcissistic mother. It's during a time when I REALLY want to disconnect from my family because I'm getting older and I've never lived life 4 me. (cont)
(2) I am what is called "the lost child". I completely identify with the lost child category. I am also a bit co-dependent. It is a painful way to be, in that you shy away from people even when you want to be close. Then there are times when I help people just to show that I'm nice. I have an alter ego and live in my own world. When I try to be myself, I feel as though I'm not really liked. So I hide my true self and live in my fantasy world. I also read a lot to escape the pain.
(1) I am black... and in most black families unfortunately as a collective do not believe in psychology or psychological therapy. I come from a dysfunctional family and at 36 years of age, I am just now understanding how a dysfunctional upbringing can affect an individual throughout life. I was abandoned by my mother, my father was addicted to drugs most of his adult life and my grandmother that raised me was abusive and narcissistic. I learned all of this from reading self-help books. (cont)
I know how it feels. I wish my dad would have taken me and my brothers and sisters. I wish my dad never met my mom. After awhile when they were married my mom's true personality came out. She would always complain, never be greaful that my dad came home from work from Ohio and did chores after working there for 3 days, and always tried to attack him with a frying pan or golf club. Had to watch my brother Nicholas get locked and My brother Joey get addicted to drugs. At least I gotta go places.
@edtempfan I made the decision to never speak with them again. It was not an easy one to come to, but ultimately I had to make it for myself. I beleive that if I did not take this stance, I would not have been able to start developing a good understanding of healthy boundaries but what constitutes normal behavior and what constitutes abnormal behavior. I have moved through a lot of anger and rage, and it has lessened over time, but I still do not want to have any contact with my family again.
@edtempfan I also do not recomend taking this step for anyone unless absolutely necessary. It is one step from which going back will not only open old wounds, but yoru family will probably never change either and they will want you to go back to being the way you were before.
@PsychDoctorate I have been an abuser of drugs, liquor, cigs since I was 18. I am now 27 with 1 year being sober off all that except for coffee. Now that i am sober I have found the root causes to my problems and lemme tell you its really comming out now. Being an alpha male type I find it hard to put blame on any body but my self. However I cannot imagine eating dinner with my parents ever again. Thanks again for your videos.
@edtempfan Additionally, in the worst cases, they will lose more respect for you on a subconscious level for returning to their abuse. It is painful to accept that your family was bad for you, but in the end, returning to them and the role they expect of you will cause even more pain. There is nothing worse than dealing with abusers who claim the moral high ground, and view any backing down as a moral failing. You ultimately have to be painfully honest with yourself.
I was a scapegoat child, now a Mom myself, making sure that my children dont go throu the same suffering and lack of self esteem i had at their age. As I'm aware of the suffering i had while growing up, it take a huge amount of energy and awarness to not repeat those killer words. Sometime got to act kind of selfish to protect them from the violence that lay within me, wich is controlled by taking a time out. if it work on a 2 yo it work also on emotion control.
@flyMaryse Good for you taking a proactive stance on raising your children with more emotional/self control than some others. Yes it takes a lot, but it is worth it in the end. On a semi humorous note, my cat "children" were fighting the other night. Instead of yelling, and rushing about I got the agressor, my siamese cat and put him in the bathroom, for a time out. Or as I jokingly put it with a good coworker, "protective custody." He was safe from my rage, which he did not deserve.
My religious fanatic bro continues to feel like the golden child (now favored by the ultimate big Daddy in the sky. My bro skapegoats me for not being his religion. His holier than thou stance gave him a platform to say he is better than all other, in the same way my narcissistic mother felt superior to all, even her own children, because she married rich, has a more expensive home, & is just superior to all
Religious kid = NOT alway lost 1.My "religious" bro =golden 1, me scapegoat.Bro defends narcissist mother's abuse,& he is now abusive w/ identify w/ the aggessor stance.Religious people abuse kids too.
@caddieggg One of the ways I dealt with my family dynamics was through the development of a fantasy prone personality traits. I knew it was bad, but in order to cope, I simply escaped into a fantasy world. Later in my adult years, I stoped having an interest in fantasy things as I had less contact with my family and realized that they were the root of a lot of my psychological problems.
@AgentxAnonymous No you are not out of line, and yes I am here for answers for myself. Its not my main goal, but a part of me is putting the pieces together and sharing the process with others in addition to wanting to educate people more and more about what psychology is truly about, not what we think it is about.
I have found Lowen's "Narcissism" and great book to keep around the house, and "Children of the Self-absorbed," but I'm hearing some new angles on narcissism that are interesting. (I also wonder if Scott Peck's "People of the Lie" wouldn't have been a great book on narcissism if he hadn't taken the 'evil' perspective.)
Thank you for your courage and honesty. I very much agree with you that we must talk about these things, and let go of the shame.
I wanted to ask if you are you familiar with any of Dr. Robert W. Firestone's books? I have one of his books, and I am ordering two more, based upon the excellency of his insight and knowledge. I was impressed with the Amazon reviews of one book in particular, titled "The Fantasy Bond: Structure of Psychological Defenses, " and wanted to suggest it to you, also.
Mr. 'psychdoctorate' you realize everything you're saying and viewing things from is using Psychology, or some of the various many different fields within Psychology. You're using all those ideas given to you by it, all those terms given you by it etc. How do you know you're right? How do you know Psychology is true or correct? A lot of other people who have studied Psychology say it's bunk. Who's right? You? lol
bixbybixby 3 weeks ago
@bixbybixby I know they are real by several means. By experience, critical thinking and the research behind it.
Psychology as a science is more than you could ever think. Yes it is a science. And an evolving one at that.
Its not about who is right, it is about what the fact and research say. Do they back up the theories and do the theories support the fact!
PsychDoctorate 3 weeks ago
One reason he clings on to dear life in the pathological belief in the NPD parent/s' perfection is this. If the golden child ever admits to the pathology of his NPD parent/s, it means that he would have to give up his self-inflated belief in his superiority over the scapegoat. It also means that he has to give up the narcissistic and grandiose belief he is "the special one," and better than others.
dylanesque66 2 months ago
We know he is defending the abuse to help ENFORCE the dysfunctional roles that were ordered and designated by the NPD parent/s. As I said, the golden child is a co-abuser. Here is an example of the golden child's co-depenence on the abuse! The golden child will defend the abusive NPD parents, and he will tenaciously deny the pathology of the NPD parent/s. He will fight anyone that acknowledges the pathology of the parents.
dylanesque66 2 months ago
The golden child defends the abuser NPD parent/s. The golden child has definite "identify with the aggressor" traits. The golden child will find any irrational excuse for the NPD parent/s' abuse, and will defend the parents to the scapegoat. Religion is often used as an excuse for this. The golden child will tell the scapegoat that he or she is defying God by saying something negative abou the NPD parents, and may, for instance, deliver an "Honor thy mother and father" rap, but we know he is ju
dylanesque66 2 months ago
The golden child will deny to the scapegoat that the abuse happened, and will even deny it throughout adulthood. The denial that the abuse took place is a (continuing) form of abuse. It is abusive, in that it is gaslighting, as it is denying reality to the abused. Hearing the denial that the abuse took place is crazy-making to the victim. The denial is meant to upset the abused scapegoat. The denial also invalidates the experience of the scapegoat.
dylanesque66 2 months ago
I have thought of writing a book on the golden child. These are a few of my observations about him. The golden one is taught from an early age that abusing the scapegoat is socially acceptable, if not desirable, in or within the family. You have heard of co-dependents when it comes to alcohol. Well, the golden child is co-dependent when it comes to abuse, and by nature, the golden one participates in the abuse, and is a co-abuser. Both overt and absent abuse.
dylanesque66 2 months ago
Right on. I went through this same stuff. I had 2 NPD parents, me the goat.The golden child in my family raged any time I even brought up the abuse. I finally had to cut them off. I don't see why I should have to cover up for child abusers. It was weird seeing him program his kids to mirror HIM in turn. It's like his own narcissism made him want to clone himself. His kids are loved based on their emulating and mirroring his grandiose beliefs about himself and his interests. It's creepy. I'm SO
dylanesque66 2 months ago
I am so.... sorry your family treated you badly. I know what it's like to grow up in a dysfunctional home.
Thank you for putting up this video
God bless you
jassy3675 2 months ago
Well it sounds like your family was certainly worse then mine. I was the lost one who was quiet yet much more talkative outside of school But I am also a introvert so I am less talkative anyway. I have thought of never seeing my family again but I am in no position to leave them right now although I don't live with them, I still fill some attachment to family and fear I wouldn't survive If I left them now as I am in no position to. I amgladyoucameoutofthe dark,showsdysfunctionalfamiliesarenojoke
RO1Chris 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
YOU ARE NOT BOUND BY YOUR PAST YOU NEVER ARE BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO CUT IT OFF IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD IN YOUR LIFE".... WELL PUT I OFFICIALLY REALIZED THIS LAST NIGHT...NO MORE
natalieanne101 3 months ago
I hadn't heard of the lost child role before
angelkater0se 3 months ago
please please continue posting, dont let these things be in the dark thank you
coolqoo 5 months ago
I was all four of those kids wrapped in one. Is that possible? No wonder I'm screwed up. Where does a 4 year old who was molested twice by her father at the age of about 4 fit in?
SailorBalance 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
check out "Toxic Parents" by Dr. Forward
They certainly do that in dysfunctional families. Lost Child & Scapegoat here.
I have no sympathy for these people that don't want to take any respocability for their own actions. They break up families then stand there screaming that they are mentally ill.
MrOphachew 6 months ago
Comment removed
MrOphachew 6 months ago
thank you we need more of your wisdom ..please make other clips ...please...!! god bless you...!
firdousa8888 7 months ago
Thank you for that inspiring video. You've probably touched on a lot of people by now as also it was moving for me. Dad was so blinded by my sister's manipluative personality. She played the golden child. Mom was the abuser, Dad was the alcoholic. Mom played the father too, during dad's drinking days. She died and sister started getting matriarcal. Sister and Dad together estranged the rest of the family. He died June 2011 & she's sole heir of the family's Will. I am the bewildered son.
KrazyOyster 7 months ago
@KrazyOyster
Onlynormalsibling 5 months ago
Comment removed
KrazyOyster 7 months ago
(5).. Anyway, thanks for posting this video. :-)
DreaDevine 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
(4) I feel guilty because my GM is very sick from smoking most of her life. But then again, I feel it's not fair that I have to care for someone who was so emotionally abusive. She is still emotionally abusive and manipulating. I tried 2 have a relationship with my biological mother and father as well. But that went by the wayside. I still keep in touch with my father, but recently had to explain how I feel when he asks me for money. I really want to leave my family, but I am scared.
DreaDevine 8 months ago
Comment removed
DreaDevine 8 months ago
(3) What you've said is so true, because I have a family member who is considered the golden child and she talks down to me because she doesn't understand what it feels like to be me. I use to be a golden child, but I stopped trying to live up to everyone's expectations. Right now, I am in a position where I have to take care of my narcissistic mother. It's during a time when I REALLY want to disconnect from my family because I'm getting older and I've never lived life 4 me. (cont)
DreaDevine 8 months ago
(2) I am what is called "the lost child". I completely identify with the lost child category. I am also a bit co-dependent. It is a painful way to be, in that you shy away from people even when you want to be close. Then there are times when I help people just to show that I'm nice. I have an alter ego and live in my own world. When I try to be myself, I feel as though I'm not really liked. So I hide my true self and live in my fantasy world. I also read a lot to escape the pain.
DreaDevine 8 months ago
(1) I am black... and in most black families unfortunately as a collective do not believe in psychology or psychological therapy. I come from a dysfunctional family and at 36 years of age, I am just now understanding how a dysfunctional upbringing can affect an individual throughout life. I was abandoned by my mother, my father was addicted to drugs most of his adult life and my grandmother that raised me was abusive and narcissistic. I learned all of this from reading self-help books. (cont)
DreaDevine 8 months ago
I know how it feels. I wish my dad would have taken me and my brothers and sisters. I wish my dad never met my mom. After awhile when they were married my mom's true personality came out. She would always complain, never be greaful that my dad came home from work from Ohio and did chores after working there for 3 days, and always tried to attack him with a frying pan or golf club. Had to watch my brother Nicholas get locked and My brother Joey get addicted to drugs. At least I gotta go places.
Gasparro18 8 months ago
nice video but now what do you still talk to your parents or do you never talk to them again.
edtempfan 8 months ago
@edtempfan I made the decision to never speak with them again. It was not an easy one to come to, but ultimately I had to make it for myself. I beleive that if I did not take this stance, I would not have been able to start developing a good understanding of healthy boundaries but what constitutes normal behavior and what constitutes abnormal behavior. I have moved through a lot of anger and rage, and it has lessened over time, but I still do not want to have any contact with my family again.
PsychDoctorate 8 months ago 2
@edtempfan I also do not recomend taking this step for anyone unless absolutely necessary. It is one step from which going back will not only open old wounds, but yoru family will probably never change either and they will want you to go back to being the way you were before.
PsychDoctorate 8 months ago 3
@PsychDoctorate I have been an abuser of drugs, liquor, cigs since I was 18. I am now 27 with 1 year being sober off all that except for coffee. Now that i am sober I have found the root causes to my problems and lemme tell you its really comming out now. Being an alpha male type I find it hard to put blame on any body but my self. However I cannot imagine eating dinner with my parents ever again. Thanks again for your videos.
edtempfan 8 months ago
@edtempfan Additionally, in the worst cases, they will lose more respect for you on a subconscious level for returning to their abuse. It is painful to accept that your family was bad for you, but in the end, returning to them and the role they expect of you will cause even more pain. There is nothing worse than dealing with abusers who claim the moral high ground, and view any backing down as a moral failing. You ultimately have to be painfully honest with yourself.
raymondchandler73 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
absolutely Great video, this is gonna help a lot of people, thank you for sharing this info, signed: a scape goat child now grown
pugdogy 11 months ago
I was a scapegoat child, now a Mom myself, making sure that my children dont go throu the same suffering and lack of self esteem i had at their age. As I'm aware of the suffering i had while growing up, it take a huge amount of energy and awarness to not repeat those killer words. Sometime got to act kind of selfish to protect them from the violence that lay within me, wich is controlled by taking a time out. if it work on a 2 yo it work also on emotion control.
flyMaryse 1 year ago
@flyMaryse Good for you taking a proactive stance on raising your children with more emotional/self control than some others. Yes it takes a lot, but it is worth it in the end. On a semi humorous note, my cat "children" were fighting the other night. Instead of yelling, and rushing about I got the agressor, my siamese cat and put him in the bathroom, for a time out. Or as I jokingly put it with a good coworker, "protective custody." He was safe from my rage, which he did not deserve.
PsychDoctorate 1 year ago
My bother was golden child religious fanatic, now narcissistic abuser like his mother.
dylanesque66 1 year ago
My religious fanatic bro continues to feel like the golden child (now favored by the ultimate big Daddy in the sky. My bro skapegoats me for not being his religion. His holier than thou stance gave him a platform to say he is better than all other, in the same way my narcissistic mother felt superior to all, even her own children, because she married rich, has a more expensive home, & is just superior to all
dylanesque66 1 year ago
Religious kid = NOT alway lost 1.My "religious" bro =golden 1, me scapegoat.Bro defends narcissist mother's abuse,& he is now abusive w/ identify w/ the aggessor stance.Religious people abuse kids too.
dylanesque66 1 year ago
@caddieggg One of the ways I dealt with my family dynamics was through the development of a fantasy prone personality traits. I knew it was bad, but in order to cope, I simply escaped into a fantasy world. Later in my adult years, I stoped having an interest in fantasy things as I had less contact with my family and realized that they were the root of a lot of my psychological problems.
PsychDoctorate 1 year ago
Insightful and thought provoking.
Jeff, I hope this isn't out of line.. but I can't help but get the feeling you're here for answers yourself.
AgentxAnonymous 1 year ago
@AgentxAnonymous No you are not out of line, and yes I am here for answers for myself. Its not my main goal, but a part of me is putting the pieces together and sharing the process with others in addition to wanting to educate people more and more about what psychology is truly about, not what we think it is about.
PsychDoctorate 1 year ago
I have found Lowen's "Narcissism" and great book to keep around the house, and "Children of the Self-absorbed," but I'm hearing some new angles on narcissism that are interesting. (I also wonder if Scott Peck's "People of the Lie" wouldn't have been a great book on narcissism if he hadn't taken the 'evil' perspective.)
StLennyBruce 1 year ago
Scapegoat/lost child here...
I escaped eventually...and live by myself now.
My teenage years were just miserable.
I isolated myself, starved myself, became depressed, anxious, psychotic...etc
Now I am getting better but I have to do my best to avoid some of my family members because they know how to get to me.
thanks for the vids.
BabyNeuron 1 year ago
Thank you for your courage and honesty. I very much agree with you that we must talk about these things, and let go of the shame.
I wanted to ask if you are you familiar with any of Dr. Robert W. Firestone's books? I have one of his books, and I am ordering two more, based upon the excellency of his insight and knowledge. I was impressed with the Amazon reviews of one book in particular, titled "The Fantasy Bond: Structure of Psychological Defenses, " and wanted to suggest it to you, also.
missfl70 1 year ago
Thank you.
SuperScreamingEagle 1 year ago
It's the parents! Thank you so much for talking about these coping methods. Great video!
HatRatt 1 year ago