Graves is still really strong, IF HE IS FED. If you sit there and let me roll on your creeps, then of course I'm gunna stomp you. If I can't get my bloodthirster in enough time, the other carry will destroy my team. My build is as follows, 2x Bloodthirster, PD, IE, (And two spots to counter your dmg mitigation.) He is no more OP than a fed/farmed Cait or Kog is. If we're going to talk op, lets talk yi, or trynd, or Rammus, or anyother champs we get beat by....
I think after 2 nerfs on Graves it should be fine now. I think that he is balanced with cait and vayne. I think cait's and kog's nerf was ridiculous. I also think that MF won't sell any more skins due to how weak she is when compared to all above and others as well.
Good Review o.o Did You Hear The New Patch Vid? They Kinda Did most Of What You Said But On his passive They Lowered It To 10 Instead Of 40, Kinda better Fits Right? :D
@crocblocked I normally don't justify this whole lol is easy crap, but ill make an exception here and say that I did play dota, I do play hon, and I do play lol, and graves is a character with 0 finesse. Just because league lacks mechanical practice like hon/dota doesn't mean the chaps in this game don't take practice to perfect. Graves is a character that takes no practice to be good with.
He is countered in some cases by people like caitlyn, who has a high damage early game poke and range advantage, not to mention occasional deny with her traps. Kog also has it better off than most against him too, again, with his range and CC advantage. But people like ashe, tf, teemo, etc. will definitely get shut down.
I would like to point out that I like a lot of the things that you are saying here and thank you for making these videos (I really like them :3) but in a sense, what carry has a really really high skillcap? (I don't count tf) I think the tradeoff with his Q is that you have to be in the enemy's face, which is never good for a squishy ranged dps.
- In a sense I would disagree that graves is super OP, but yes he is strong. Also, I completely agree with what you say about his passive
i look at the comments and see nothing but ignorant people who probably bought greaves when they heard he was op. leaguetopten i wish i could help you more with all the trolls to make them see things right.
You're saying that some champions require skill to use in this game? Okay.. I think you should go play dota if you think LoL champions are hard to play. Every champion in LoL is a piece of piss to use effectively.
@MrPartypooper Actually i love LoL, I think it's an amazing game and riot have outdone themselves. Also, I agree with him the fact that Graves is OP, but he fucking NAGS on about how he's so easy to play, doesn't that mean he thinks most champs aren't? No, the characters aren't hard to play at all, hell, microing doesnt even exist in it. If he thinks champions in this game are hard to play, he's going to have a hell of a hard time playing dota2.
@Crocblocked there are chars that are alot harder to play like vayne, ezreal, blitzcrank, oriana and so on (we're not talking about Dota here, it's a different game).
So if a char has 2 nukes that are impossible to miss that take like 50-70% of your hp down and then do good as a regular AD carry with auto attacks then that's what makes him OP cuz hes almost impossible to screw up.
@MrPartypooper Obviously it's not impossible to miss with those skills, seeing as they're skillshot, somebody will miss them one time or another. Hell, even this guy misses with buckshot; how ironic to say it's impossible to miss. And I don't see how they are hard to play at all, the only remotely hard character to play in the game at the minute is Yorick, and even he isn't as bad as per say, Chen in dota. On the topic of how different they are to eachother, I guess I could agree to a limit.
@Crocblocked well obviouslly it's possible to miss those skill shots but it's really hard to, they're so fast and have wide hit detection, so baisicly playing Graves at his maxed potential is SOOOOO much easier than like... Oriana or lee, or even vayne for that matter. And saying that all chars in LoL are easy as shit to play is pure bullshit, i'd like to see you master all the chars for their full potential.
@Crocblocked I'm not comparing it to dota, so don't come with your Dota BS i couldn't care less about Dota, were talking about LOL here. So don't get confused.
@MrPartypooper We're talking about the difficulty it is to play characters, not dota or lol specifically. All come into category, hell, I might even add some heroes of newerth character difficulty just to prove how easy it is to play lols champions in comparison.
@MrPartypooper You're a fucking idiot if you think this was about graves in the first place, it was about his opinions. You seem to have lost ideas on what to say, which proves my point that this guy who's commenting on a character being too easy to play in a game where none of the characters are remotely difficult; a moron.
@Crocblocked are you retarded? Graves is easy to use in LEAGUE OF LEGENDS HE DIDN'T COMPARE HIM TO DOTA OR HON CHARS, and saying that none of the chars aren't remotely difficult shows that you havent played LoL at all. end of discussion. if you still don't get the picture you are indeed retarded.
@MrPartypooper Mother of god you're an idiot. I never said he compared them to dota or hon, read what I fucking said in the first place before going off in a kiddy-fit. Also, they aren't. Like I said, the only remotely hard character in the game is Yorick because of his microing, but since the microing in LoL doesn't require any thought apart from pressing the alt and right-click, it doesnt matter. Lee sin was also the closest to becoming a hard character and yet he is easy as hell to play with.
@MrPartypooper I'm a retard yet I seem to have the superior intellectuality, good day sir. Dota was made with an RTS engine, therefore the microing acted like starcraft or warcraft 3, so you're technically saying, starcraft 2 has frustrating controls? I think you need to learn to micro and then maybe you'd get good at moba games, instead of complaining about what isn't really the problem.
@Crocblocked if the game has no fucking micro why would you need it? tell me why one reason. i'd like to learn. And if Dota was on an RTS engine and LoL is on an original MOBA engine then why the fuck would they add RTS controlls into the game? just to make it frustrating to play? yeah fuck you calling me an idiot go suck your Dota's dick if you want, and now that we have found the reason of you arguing - frustrating controlls, we can end this shit, you know i'm right (oh and i wasnt complainig)
@MrPartypooper lol someones mad. It has no micro because riot wanted to dumb down the game for casuals to play. It's not frustrating it's just that you're bad at microing so it makes it seem that way. It does perfectly fine, that's why Dota2 and HoN exist today. Would it be bad controls then? No, it just means it requires more skill to play a character that uses micro. My original point was that this guy is complaining about a character is too easy to play in a game where no character is hard.
@Crocblocked just drop it dude, you obviouslly havent played LoL. really sad talking about a game you don't know shit about. and just because controlls are frustrating makes the game shitty not challenging, easy to figure out controlls are always a good thing so drop your bullshit. god damn kid learn something about basic gaming.
@MrPartypooper lol I outwitted you so you assume I don't play the game. Ok then, because dota isn't the most known and most played moba game to start iwth, not to mention the original. How come nobody complains about the controls? BECAUSE THEY ARENT FRUSTRATING. As I said before, just because you are so bad at the game and dont want to l2p doesn't mean the controls are bad.
@Crocblocked well they obviouslly are if it's hard as shit to play (according to you)... way to be controversial, and i still haven't heard why a game should have micro when it doesn't need it. i'd like to learn from you. you outwitted me as it seems so tell, o great one. why? so i say it again maybe this time you'll get it - BAD CONTROLLS DON'T MAKE THE GAME HARD BUT SHITTY AND FRUSTRATING. just because a game is easy to pick up doesn't mean it's easy to master.
@MrPartypooper Never said they were hard as shit, just harder than LoL characters. The game uses micro because of the higher skill rating, this makes some characters High skill high reward. Have you played HoN? Ophelia in that game is hard to play because she has like 3-4 minions to control aswell as herself, but because of this when you play her correctly you can become the best character in the game when it comes to early game. Characters like these make tournaments more about skill rating...
@Crocblocked rather than team composition and higher tier characters. Moba games are action-RTS games, this is why microing is in them, because of the fact they originated from Warcraft 3. They stuck with it because it worked, the controls werent bad at all, they just worked the way. This is why people consider dota to be the best choice. Dumbing down a game like riot did doesn't just make it more open for the casual scene, but makes it so competive play is just about tier lists and team comps.
@Crocblocked for fuck sake microing isn't the only thing that makes a char hard to play... are you mentaly retarded or something you just don't get it. i know there are hard chars to play in LoL and the fact that they are easier to controll makes the game better. And why is moving 4 chars hard? it's not like they have 5 individual skills or something, it's just a matter of play style.i'd say positioning orianas ball and predicting enemies movements is alot harder to simply move 4 chars.
@MrPartypooper Ehm... They do have 3-4 skills per minion so it does make a hell of a difference. Oriannas ball is easy to use, and what makes a character hard to use? The movement of the character and how fast paced it is? No. Kennen, Riven and probably Nine-tails will be fast-paced, yet 2 of the 3 are easy as hell to play with. (Despite nine-tails; unreleased.) You obviously don't know what the idea I'm speaking of is, you're arguing for a one-sided view from not having played dota or hon.
@Crocblocked Lol if there's a char with 16 skills then ofcourse there has to be some difficulty factor, god dude but that's obvious. And what makes char hard is to know when and how to use your skills not how many things you have to do at once.and coming back to graves he doesn't have that issue , so if you have 16+ skills ofcourse they had to add something to rise the difficulty of using those skills but that doesn't make other chars easy. if you still dont get it then don't bother replying.
@Crocblocked You've completely ignored my point. There is more to difficulty of play than micro and clunky spell menus, and I say this as someone who is high rated in HoN and mained meepo/invoker in DotA. Graves is a character that takes no finesse. Period.
Tidehunter is an easy to play character. But the difference between a good one and a bad one is apparent by how they use their ult. There is no difference in damage between a good graves and a bad graves. That's where the finesse comes in.
@thisisnotfaro To be honest, I've seen a bad graves who went 0/9/4, he hit his buckshot maybe twice in laning phase, and used it to farm. By the end he was harassed out of the lane. I think theres a slight difference, but I'd have to agree with you by a large margin.
@thisisnotfaro Meepo was one of the hardest character in DotA. Amazed by how the hell I played him years ago...
But Graves, like most if not all character in LoL, requires skill to be GOOD. I know you may think or say otherwise due to your experience (which is cmoing off slightly elitist), but he does require it.
@BlazedHearts No, he doesn't. If you know the basics of map awareness, positioning, and lane control you have nothing to learn on Graves. Period. The character is faceroll easy.
@BlazedHearts Most characters do, yes. I've already said this once before. The difference between a good and a bad player is all in the use of their abilities. A good player will know who to use what ability on and when, while a bad player will just press all of the buttons.
The difference between a good singed and a bad singed is night and day, even though all he does is pool, fling, and run in a circle. The difference between a good graves is marginal to the point of being nonexistant.
@leaguetopten (continued) Graves also only gets that Resist LATE GAME
every goddam argument u make seems completely stupid to me; i have versed 20 Graves' in lane and game and i have beaten all but one (funnily enough a 4v5) so please take ur damn hardon for hating Graves out of ur ass and think about this realistically, Thornmail, learn to position, ganks
@leaguetopten Hey; just thought i would share my opinion
i agree Graves is..easy.. but he is NOT in my opinion OP. What i believe is his Q needs to take a 10% damage hit and also half damage to minions, that's about all in my opinion. He requires ridiculous amounts of farm; if you can't end the game early its your fault because you let him farm.
if you cannot counter him you are just bad.
THORNMAIL GG GRAVES
he is very auto attack relient so build thornmail and he is done
They havw never been wrong in there first impressions and they probably arnt wrong now graves is op people who say he isnt mustve been vrsing a bad graves
My exact thoughts. The damage difference is basically negligible between point blank and long range Q. Base damage from one shot needs a heavy hit, but better scaling for multiple landed shots should be implemented to offset it.
@Wolfhound353 So your rebuttal to a clear argument about why the character is overpowered is QQ, it's all in my head? So...then... No one else but me thinks he's overpowered?
So I'm just imagining that he's a constant ban at my high rating? So then you're choosing to ignore when high level AD carries (Chauster, Chaox, Dyrus, JiJi) laughed in a Riot employee's face on stream at the state of Graves' release balance?
Seriously, the character is broken and you graves mains need to deal with it.
@leaguetopten I'm not very sure. He is overpowered, because no one knows how to counter him. When Vayne came out, nobody knew how to counter her and thought she was op. When the players found a way to counter Vayne, she lost her op status and became a regular champ. But because the QQ and rage was already on the forums, Riot nerfed her and now Vayne is nothing more than a ranged minion with a little more dmg and less hp. I've bought Graves. At the start, nobody knew how to deal with his combos..
@GravityO0 You do realize that vayne is a top tier pick with a high win ratio, right? And that's after significant nerfs. Release Vayne was a fucking balance joke.
@thisisnotfaro She's not anymore. Trust me. This month I haven't seen Vayne in a ranked game AT ALL. I'm currently at 300 elo or so, and, to be honest, the last time I saw vayne in a ranked, she just playing sucks. At the release she dealt so much dmg early game. Now even with items, she just deals too low dmg.
@leaguetopten ...,but, as with every other new champ, everybody figured out how to counter him. Deny him the chance to harass, and always switch lanes with people who can ACTUALLY harass him way better. Now, I'm not saying that Graves is UP, nor am I saying he is too OP. Yes his Q does have a high burst, but that's just natural. Every champion has a signature ability (besides ult) that defines their early game. Lately, my games with Graves became difficult as people knew how to counter him.
@leaguetopten Sorry for the triple post, but I just felt it that I needed to say what I should've said on the forums on the day they decided to nerf Graves. Now that there is a way to counter him, he will be additionally nerfed and that will just make him into another undesirable champ. His passive is what makes him great in lane. The armor gives enemies hard times counter harrasing him. But, as I said before, he is new and unfamiliar. And No, Jax can't beat him in a solo lane.
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I like how the video claims Graves is getting 40 MR+Armor in lane when in reality at level 16+ you get the full passive. In lane(pre-6) you're only getting 10 MR+Armor. QQ more leaguetopten.
@yaay0 Saying in lane was a missquote. But it still stands that 40 armor/mr in any circumstance (as you can see by my ability to tank lots of damage in large teamfights) for a range dps is pretty strong/OP without any defensive items.
@yaay0 Graves actually has naturally higher armor and armor scaling than the other AD carries, with five higher base and .4 higher per level, so in lane his armor advantage is noticeable. At level one you only have +15, but by the time you hit six and his passive jumps to +20, he's already naturally overtaken every other AD carry by 7 points of armor, making the swing in his favor+27. QQ more graves players, the character is broken.
@yaay0 You guys need to stop QQing about QQ, Graves is OP. if you don't think so, then you don't see the other side of things, play LoL as a support or a close range AD and you face Graves in solo lane (against someone who is actually good with Graves). Also Graves will get nerfed in next patch, there is no doubt in my mind and everyone needs to stop saying QQ in annoys the crap out of me and I bet some other people too, if some one wants to cry in the game mute them or ignore it.
Not all champs need to be challenging to play. Yes, good players of a certain character should be able to do more/better things, but I don't see this game being balanced for the top 3% of players. You have a lot of players who would like to play the role of a range carry but maybe are just not suited skill-wise for it. (I mainly jungle, never range carry unless I have to). So having someone who would be more of a "recommended" type is not a bad thing. maybe slight nerf on ratios would be enough.
Um, his passive doesn't work that way. You say "40 armor and mr in the laning phase is over-powered" but the numbers on his passive scale with level so either you're still laning at level 16-17, or you payed no attention to something you're complaining about. Graves passive only goes up to 10 or 20 during the early levels. I'm really disappointed by this first impressions video. You took longer than normal to put it out, and you're still just complaining about a champ without learning the facts.
You have the best commentating voice that I have heard on youtube. Calming yet strong, and very very clear and well enunciated. Favorite person on youtube is Faro atm.
Completely agree on the skill point, I really like this character and AD carries generally but I really prefer to know that I'm doing well in a game because I've learnt them well, and have some ability, even though I'm not the best player. Not because the champ's so easy to use.
I definitely thing he's OP too, but for a different reason. I think the problem is that he does have that GIANT mage-like AoE Burst once he hits level 6 and he's also a pretty durable ranged carry. Best of both worlds.
I think the optimum burst needs to go down by at least 25%.
Oh, and his passive scales, so at the beginning he only gains 1 Armor and Mr per stack, not 4. Still durable though.
sooo true Spunkify I hope he just gets a little rebuild or something right now he is to easy to play and he can carry you almost single handed to victory
@Drewkiimon In HoN, a guy SNIPES with dual wield shot guns. These companies don't really care about the weapon design, they just go with what looks cool.
@tortelenny It's the normal range for ad carry. Corki, ezreal vayne and mf have the same. He don't ave low range, it's juste ashe cait or kog have long range.
@sYthyy hey man, remember that guy with all that dodging chance? for like dodging all the autoattacks and such? that champion that can stun every 5 seconds ? what was his name again :/ man i totally forgot, something like: flax or Grax or jaggs or something...
i think mabye dropping the missle speed of the ult to make it possible to dodge it if your on the move. its so easy to hit ppl with it unless your retarded
Graves is so ridiculous because he has too many different ways to deal great damage. This whole "ease of use" thing comes about because he's rarely penalized for using any of his skills sub-optimally, and if he does use them correctly, well, kills just fall into his lap.
Morello just said that they're gonna look at his base stats. He originally had a bit lower range and had high base stats to compensate, then they increased the range but forgot to adjust his stats.
Says it's impossible to mess up with Q. Does it many times in video. Also it's easy to fuck up the E when using it to escape. It takes some "skill". But this is LoL. Since when has Skill been Riot's real concern?
it's like anivia, she has a massive burst. but if u want that burst, u must be able to play her. my friend has played anivia as main for a year now and he is beast with her. But with graves who has just as much if not more burst and dmg as anivia is so easy to play:P
@didy7178 start by shorting it's range, slow the skills charge up so it gives people some time to avoid the whole burst, increase the skills mana cost so u can't use it as much. None of they need to be changed by too much, Right now it's like fighting a talon that has 2x the range Usually skills that have that range and damage at least have a tell, is a skill shot, or long travel time. ie Caitlyn, sivir, tf, mundo, lux, nidalee, xerath
a friend told me that the counter to graves was stacking armour and magic resist as a tank/tanky champ... i played as taric and had about 250 armour and magic resist + the armour from my w and 3.5k health and graves still took me out, my conclusion was the counter to graves is run like hell
Graves needs his passive in late game bc he can't really buy defensive stuff if he wants to compete with other carries like Kog'Maw or a good Caitlyn.
call me a noob, but how do you play that night version of summoner's rift? it looks so cool!
luisbaltazar1 3 weeks ago
Graves is still really strong, IF HE IS FED. If you sit there and let me roll on your creeps, then of course I'm gunna stomp you. If I can't get my bloodthirster in enough time, the other carry will destroy my team. My build is as follows, 2x Bloodthirster, PD, IE, (And two spots to counter your dmg mitigation.) He is no more OP than a fed/farmed Cait or Kog is. If we're going to talk op, lets talk yi, or trynd, or Rammus, or anyother champs we get beat by....
puttyhands 1 month ago
Is Graves even good after his 3 nerfs? I still wanna buy him
BerktownxD 3 months ago
I think after 2 nerfs on Graves it should be fine now. I think that he is balanced with cait and vayne. I think cait's and kog's nerf was ridiculous. I also think that MF won't sell any more skins due to how weak she is when compared to all above and others as well.
navisoul 3 months ago 3
i love graves
vashkarpalma 3 months ago 3
Oh hey look he is getting nerfed like we said :O QQ?
leaguetopten 3 months ago 19
@leaguetopten his nerf was like minimal as possible XD
Bykoskunz 3 months ago
his passiv is even stronger then poppys w alt lvl 5 thats kinda strange isnt it?
fir6b 3 months ago
Good Review o.o Did You Hear The New Patch Vid? They Kinda Did most Of What You Said But On his passive They Lowered It To 10 Instead Of 40, Kinda better Fits Right? :D
l2okudo 4 months ago
Also, yorick is basically one of the easiest characters to play. He's basically as easy as garen. Sona is harder to play than yorick is.
thisisnotfaro 4 months ago
@crocblocked I normally don't justify this whole lol is easy crap, but ill make an exception here and say that I did play dota, I do play hon, and I do play lol, and graves is a character with 0 finesse. Just because league lacks mechanical practice like hon/dota doesn't mean the chaps in this game don't take practice to perfect. Graves is a character that takes no practice to be good with.
thisisnotfaro 4 months ago
How do you feel about the nerfs in the next patch?
WoWLoophead 4 months ago
He is countered in some cases by people like caitlyn, who has a high damage early game poke and range advantage, not to mention occasional deny with her traps. Kog also has it better off than most against him too, again, with his range and CC advantage. But people like ashe, tf, teemo, etc. will definitely get shut down.
Sushioizz 4 months ago
I would like to point out that I like a lot of the things that you are saying here and thank you for making these videos (I really like them :3) but in a sense, what carry has a really really high skillcap? (I don't count tf) I think the tradeoff with his Q is that you have to be in the enemy's face, which is never good for a squishy ranged dps.
- In a sense I would disagree that graves is super OP, but yes he is strong. Also, I completely agree with what you say about his passive
Sushioizz 4 months ago
@Sushioizz But passive makes you not so squishy.
2sonfon 4 months ago
A champ being easier is not going to make them op. Orianna was op and she wasn't a simple and easy champion.
Bloxxertildeath 4 months ago
I'm really not fucking sure why riot thought his passive was ever a good idea.
Chainsawsb 4 months ago 19
@Chainsawsb Is it hella strong or what
BerktownxD 3 months ago
Coooool.
LOLiJustRaged 4 months ago
Why not have an easy champ? dont they have easy modes already?
WMSexton 4 months ago
I like how people say he's not OP when he just got nerfed
sadface1123 4 months ago
Stupid video.
MagicFlowGoesPro 4 months ago
i look at the comments and see nothing but ignorant people who probably bought greaves when they heard he was op. leaguetopten i wish i could help you more with all the trolls to make them see things right.
shikamarukibalee 4 months ago 2
You're saying that some champions require skill to use in this game? Okay.. I think you should go play dota if you think LoL champions are hard to play. Every champion in LoL is a piece of piss to use effectively.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked Lol this is just some lame ass trolling you're doing here... if you hate LOL so much don't play it or watch vids of it.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper Actually i love LoL, I think it's an amazing game and riot have outdone themselves. Also, I agree with him the fact that Graves is OP, but he fucking NAGS on about how he's so easy to play, doesn't that mean he thinks most champs aren't? No, the characters aren't hard to play at all, hell, microing doesnt even exist in it. If he thinks champions in this game are hard to play, he's going to have a hell of a hard time playing dota2.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked So you got the beta key alrdy ? =/
MrChilloffi 4 months ago
@Crocblocked there are chars that are alot harder to play like vayne, ezreal, blitzcrank, oriana and so on (we're not talking about Dota here, it's a different game).
So if a char has 2 nukes that are impossible to miss that take like 50-70% of your hp down and then do good as a regular AD carry with auto attacks then that's what makes him OP cuz hes almost impossible to screw up.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper Obviously it's not impossible to miss with those skills, seeing as they're skillshot, somebody will miss them one time or another. Hell, even this guy misses with buckshot; how ironic to say it's impossible to miss. And I don't see how they are hard to play at all, the only remotely hard character to play in the game at the minute is Yorick, and even he isn't as bad as per say, Chen in dota. On the topic of how different they are to eachother, I guess I could agree to a limit.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked He used "impossible" figuratively, not literally.
2sonfon 4 months ago
@Crocblocked well obviouslly it's possible to miss those skill shots but it's really hard to, they're so fast and have wide hit detection, so baisicly playing Graves at his maxed potential is SOOOOO much easier than like... Oriana or lee, or even vayne for that matter. And saying that all chars in LoL are easy as shit to play is pure bullshit, i'd like to see you master all the chars for their full potential.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper Compared to dota? It's easy as fuck. Go play dota first and then tell me the same thing.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked I'm not comparing it to dota, so don't come with your Dota BS i couldn't care less about Dota, were talking about LOL here. So don't get confused.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper We're talking about the difficulty it is to play characters, not dota or lol specifically. All come into category, hell, I might even add some heroes of newerth character difficulty just to prove how easy it is to play lols champions in comparison.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked lol dude Graves exists IN LEAGUE OF LEGENDS NOT IN DOTA OR HON, GET THE PICTURE?
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper You're a fucking idiot if you think this was about graves in the first place, it was about his opinions. You seem to have lost ideas on what to say, which proves my point that this guy who's commenting on a character being too easy to play in a game where none of the characters are remotely difficult; a moron.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked are you retarded? Graves is easy to use in LEAGUE OF LEGENDS HE DIDN'T COMPARE HIM TO DOTA OR HON CHARS, and saying that none of the chars aren't remotely difficult shows that you havent played LoL at all. end of discussion. if you still don't get the picture you are indeed retarded.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper Mother of god you're an idiot. I never said he compared them to dota or hon, read what I fucking said in the first place before going off in a kiddy-fit. Also, they aren't. Like I said, the only remotely hard character in the game is Yorick because of his microing, but since the microing in LoL doesn't require any thought apart from pressing the alt and right-click, it doesnt matter. Lee sin was also the closest to becoming a hard character and yet he is easy as hell to play with.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked LOL you are a retard.... gj and frustrating controlls doesn't make a char hard it makes the whole game hard.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper I'm a retard yet I seem to have the superior intellectuality, good day sir. Dota was made with an RTS engine, therefore the microing acted like starcraft or warcraft 3, so you're technically saying, starcraft 2 has frustrating controls? I think you need to learn to micro and then maybe you'd get good at moba games, instead of complaining about what isn't really the problem.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked if the game has no fucking micro why would you need it? tell me why one reason. i'd like to learn. And if Dota was on an RTS engine and LoL is on an original MOBA engine then why the fuck would they add RTS controlls into the game? just to make it frustrating to play? yeah fuck you calling me an idiot go suck your Dota's dick if you want, and now that we have found the reason of you arguing - frustrating controlls, we can end this shit, you know i'm right (oh and i wasnt complainig)
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper lol someones mad. It has no micro because riot wanted to dumb down the game for casuals to play. It's not frustrating it's just that you're bad at microing so it makes it seem that way. It does perfectly fine, that's why Dota2 and HoN exist today. Would it be bad controls then? No, it just means it requires more skill to play a character that uses micro. My original point was that this guy is complaining about a character is too easy to play in a game where no character is hard.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked just drop it dude, you obviouslly havent played LoL. really sad talking about a game you don't know shit about. and just because controlls are frustrating makes the game shitty not challenging, easy to figure out controlls are always a good thing so drop your bullshit. god damn kid learn something about basic gaming.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper lol I outwitted you so you assume I don't play the game. Ok then, because dota isn't the most known and most played moba game to start iwth, not to mention the original. How come nobody complains about the controls? BECAUSE THEY ARENT FRUSTRATING. As I said before, just because you are so bad at the game and dont want to l2p doesn't mean the controls are bad.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked well they obviouslly are if it's hard as shit to play (according to you)... way to be controversial, and i still haven't heard why a game should have micro when it doesn't need it. i'd like to learn from you. you outwitted me as it seems so tell, o great one. why? so i say it again maybe this time you'll get it - BAD CONTROLLS DON'T MAKE THE GAME HARD BUT SHITTY AND FRUSTRATING. just because a game is easy to pick up doesn't mean it's easy to master.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper Never said they were hard as shit, just harder than LoL characters. The game uses micro because of the higher skill rating, this makes some characters High skill high reward. Have you played HoN? Ophelia in that game is hard to play because she has like 3-4 minions to control aswell as herself, but because of this when you play her correctly you can become the best character in the game when it comes to early game. Characters like these make tournaments more about skill rating...
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked rather than team composition and higher tier characters. Moba games are action-RTS games, this is why microing is in them, because of the fact they originated from Warcraft 3. They stuck with it because it worked, the controls werent bad at all, they just worked the way. This is why people consider dota to be the best choice. Dumbing down a game like riot did doesn't just make it more open for the casual scene, but makes it so competive play is just about tier lists and team comps.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked for fuck sake microing isn't the only thing that makes a char hard to play... are you mentaly retarded or something you just don't get it. i know there are hard chars to play in LoL and the fact that they are easier to controll makes the game better. And why is moving 4 chars hard? it's not like they have 5 individual skills or something, it's just a matter of play style.i'd say positioning orianas ball and predicting enemies movements is alot harder to simply move 4 chars.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper Ehm... They do have 3-4 skills per minion so it does make a hell of a difference. Oriannas ball is easy to use, and what makes a character hard to use? The movement of the character and how fast paced it is? No. Kennen, Riven and probably Nine-tails will be fast-paced, yet 2 of the 3 are easy as hell to play with. (Despite nine-tails; unreleased.) You obviously don't know what the idea I'm speaking of is, you're arguing for a one-sided view from not having played dota or hon.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked Lol if there's a char with 16 skills then ofcourse there has to be some difficulty factor, god dude but that's obvious. And what makes char hard is to know when and how to use your skills not how many things you have to do at once.and coming back to graves he doesn't have that issue , so if you have 16+ skills ofcourse they had to add something to rise the difficulty of using those skills but that doesn't make other chars easy. if you still dont get it then don't bother replying.
MrPartypooper 4 months ago
@MrPartypooper See thats what I've been saying the whole time. Thank god we come to a stalemate, the length of this debate was getting out of hand.
Crocblocked 4 months ago
@Crocblocked You've completely ignored my point. There is more to difficulty of play than micro and clunky spell menus, and I say this as someone who is high rated in HoN and mained meepo/invoker in DotA. Graves is a character that takes no finesse. Period.
Tidehunter is an easy to play character. But the difference between a good one and a bad one is apparent by how they use their ult. There is no difference in damage between a good graves and a bad graves. That's where the finesse comes in.
thisisnotfaro 3 months ago
@thisisnotfaro To be honest, I've seen a bad graves who went 0/9/4, he hit his buckshot maybe twice in laning phase, and used it to farm. By the end he was harassed out of the lane. I think theres a slight difference, but I'd have to agree with you by a large margin.
Crocblocked 3 months ago
@thisisnotfaro Meepo was one of the hardest character in DotA. Amazed by how the hell I played him years ago...
But Graves, like most if not all character in LoL, requires skill to be GOOD. I know you may think or say otherwise due to your experience (which is cmoing off slightly elitist), but he does require it.
BlazedHearts 3 months ago
@BlazedHearts No, he doesn't. If you know the basics of map awareness, positioning, and lane control you have nothing to learn on Graves. Period. The character is faceroll easy.
thisisnotfaro 3 months ago
@thisisnotfaro Mkay. Clearly this is a losing battle.
Better question - Are the any champions in LoL that you think require skill? Because to be honest those same principles could be used on anyone.
BlazedHearts 3 months ago
@BlazedHearts Most characters do, yes. I've already said this once before. The difference between a good and a bad player is all in the use of their abilities. A good player will know who to use what ability on and when, while a bad player will just press all of the buttons.
The difference between a good singed and a bad singed is night and day, even though all he does is pool, fling, and run in a circle. The difference between a good graves is marginal to the point of being nonexistant.
thisisnotfaro 3 months ago
i keep seeing Popushi in a ton of peoples vids o.O
TheRawrosaursGotYou 4 months ago
And Q is to easy to use but i still missing it at 3:57 when he is so close!
rafzPT 4 months ago
u cry about graves Q and what about cait Q?
rafzPT 4 months ago
hes probably gonna be the new "recommended" champ since hes like vayne. btw i suck with vayne =P
Shadowsmash7 4 months ago
claiming that a champion is overpowered because they are too easy to use is the weakest argument ive ever heard just saying
acerunner007 4 months ago
I can't actually hit anyone with my r... like, the bullet itself.
UsaraDark 4 months ago
Comment removed
UsaraDark 4 months ago
@leaguetopten (continued) Graves also only gets that Resist LATE GAME
every goddam argument u make seems completely stupid to me; i have versed 20 Graves' in lane and game and i have beaten all but one (funnily enough a 4v5) so please take ur damn hardon for hating Graves out of ur ass and think about this realistically, Thornmail, learn to position, ganks
Graves is DONE
MegaGamerRage 4 months ago
@leaguetopten Hey; just thought i would share my opinion
i agree Graves is..easy.. but he is NOT in my opinion OP. What i believe is his Q needs to take a 10% damage hit and also half damage to minions, that's about all in my opinion. He requires ridiculous amounts of farm; if you can't end the game early its your fault because you let him farm.
if you cannot counter him you are just bad.
THORNMAIL GG GRAVES
he is very auto attack relient so build thornmail and he is done
MegaGamerRage 4 months ago
If you guys hadnt figured it out already..
The person who is talking is Faro
The person in the gameplay is spunkify
Dont blame him for him "sucking"
(by the way, spunkify still showed how op graves can be, even if he screws up the combo sometimes)
ConorLeichtman 4 months ago
you should do a rp point giveaway for the best gameplay
westonscoots2011 4 months ago
its maybe cool when YOU play Graves, but when YOU pick another champ, and your oppenent is Graves you 'll say samething..
NeelixMaster 4 months ago
how bout cast time on his Q?
13a1Vana 4 months ago
lol at 6:00 that amumu got the carry and his team didnt attack the carry lol
JaViEr369187 4 months ago
Nerf fo sho.
Shonorukyo 4 months ago
you are bad faro
Itzjustvictor 4 months ago
Lol everyone Baugh him and they say no No not op..
MultiNezzi 4 months ago
2:58 Anyone see flying Nid?
BOSTL 4 months ago
I think Graves just need the base damage nerfed on Q.
Leave the ratio alone, but make the single shots do less.
And maybe widen the skill shot, but that would be time-consuming to do from Riot's side.
I also feel his Quickdraw should get less cooldown reduced on minion hits, but just as much as now from champion hits.
To encourage chasing and kiting, but not a super easy lane where you can escape as you please after last-hitting and pushing.
mega17 4 months ago
hotfixed his passive
k4y0h 4 months ago
They havw never been wrong in there first impressions and they probably arnt wrong now graves is op people who say he isnt mustve been vrsing a bad graves
ruphail 4 months ago
My exact thoughts. The damage difference is basically negligible between point blank and long range Q. Base damage from one shot needs a heavy hit, but better scaling for multiple landed shots should be implemented to offset it.
RellikVancoor 4 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Q fuckin Q leaguetopten hes not op you just think he is. >.<
Wolfhound353 4 months ago
@Wolfhound353 So your rebuttal to a clear argument about why the character is overpowered is QQ, it's all in my head? So...then... No one else but me thinks he's overpowered?
So I'm just imagining that he's a constant ban at my high rating? So then you're choosing to ignore when high level AD carries (Chauster, Chaox, Dyrus, JiJi) laughed in a Riot employee's face on stream at the state of Graves' release balance?
Seriously, the character is broken and you graves mains need to deal with it.
leaguetopten 4 months ago 48
@leaguetopten I'm not very sure. He is overpowered, because no one knows how to counter him. When Vayne came out, nobody knew how to counter her and thought she was op. When the players found a way to counter Vayne, she lost her op status and became a regular champ. But because the QQ and rage was already on the forums, Riot nerfed her and now Vayne is nothing more than a ranged minion with a little more dmg and less hp. I've bought Graves. At the start, nobody knew how to deal with his combos..
GravityO0 4 months ago
@GravityO0 You do realize that vayne is a top tier pick with a high win ratio, right? And that's after significant nerfs. Release Vayne was a fucking balance joke.
thisisnotfaro 3 months ago
@thisisnotfaro She's not anymore. Trust me. This month I haven't seen Vayne in a ranked game AT ALL. I'm currently at 300 elo or so, and, to be honest, the last time I saw vayne in a ranked, she just playing sucks. At the release she dealt so much dmg early game. Now even with items, she just deals too low dmg.
GravityO0 3 months ago
@GravityO0 The chinese players disagree with you.
thisisnotfaro 3 months ago
@thisisnotfaro Well, everybody else agrees >.>
GravityO0 3 months ago
@GravityO0 1300* elo. missed the 1.
GravityO0 3 months ago
@leaguetopten ...,but, as with every other new champ, everybody figured out how to counter him. Deny him the chance to harass, and always switch lanes with people who can ACTUALLY harass him way better. Now, I'm not saying that Graves is UP, nor am I saying he is too OP. Yes his Q does have a high burst, but that's just natural. Every champion has a signature ability (besides ult) that defines their early game. Lately, my games with Graves became difficult as people knew how to counter him.
GravityO0 4 months ago
@leaguetopten Sorry for the triple post, but I just felt it that I needed to say what I should've said on the forums on the day they decided to nerf Graves. Now that there is a way to counter him, he will be additionally nerfed and that will just make him into another undesirable champ. His passive is what makes him great in lane. The armor gives enemies hard times counter harrasing him. But, as I said before, he is new and unfamiliar. And No, Jax can't beat him in a solo lane.
GravityO0 4 months ago
@Wolfhound353 Your a nigger for saying that kinda shit.
AnotherAnonymous9001 4 months ago
He needs nerf.
MultiNezzi 4 months ago
graves is not op!!!!!!!!
Wolfhound353 4 months ago
idk but, this guy just follows the main stream, QQ when everyone qq's etc....
this guy isnt rlly good at first impressions, also how can this be a guide? u only QQ, he isnt op- he is just easy to play
ikbennl 4 months ago
idk but, this guy just follows the main stream, QQ when everyone qq's etc....
this guy isnt rlly good at first impressions, also how can this be a guide? u only QQ
ikbennl 4 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I like how the video claims Graves is getting 40 MR+Armor in lane when in reality at level 16+ you get the full passive. In lane(pre-6) you're only getting 10 MR+Armor. QQ more leaguetopten.
yaay0 4 months ago
@yaay0 Saying in lane was a missquote. But it still stands that 40 armor/mr in any circumstance (as you can see by my ability to tank lots of damage in large teamfights) for a range dps is pretty strong/OP without any defensive items.
leaguetopten 4 months ago 22
@yaay0 Graves actually has naturally higher armor and armor scaling than the other AD carries, with five higher base and .4 higher per level, so in lane his armor advantage is noticeable. At level one you only have +15, but by the time you hit six and his passive jumps to +20, he's already naturally overtaken every other AD carry by 7 points of armor, making the swing in his favor+27. QQ more graves players, the character is broken.
thisisnotfaro 4 months ago
@yaay0 You guys need to stop QQing about QQ, Graves is OP. if you don't think so, then you don't see the other side of things, play LoL as a support or a close range AD and you face Graves in solo lane (against someone who is actually good with Graves). Also Graves will get nerfed in next patch, there is no doubt in my mind and everyone needs to stop saying QQ in annoys the crap out of me and I bet some other people too, if some one wants to cry in the game mute them or ignore it.
wingeddemon12 4 months ago
7:03 to listen to the build and not about how he is OP.
AnotherAnonymous9001 4 months ago
spunkify: impossible to fk up his Q
misses Q at point blank 3:58 xDDD
elitescooby 4 months ago
lets just ramble about graves OPness... i havent listened enough of it in the last week. lol
TheSh4go2 4 months ago
you should do an rp giveaway for the best game you get sent to you but there should be rules like it has to be solo que
westonscoots2011 4 months ago
Brand + graves = death at it's best xD! just too much to deal with in a lane
WaytohellHR 4 months ago
Isn't having more easy to use characters a good thing?
starbomber 4 months ago
anyone else think that the next champion coming out is going to have a dash too?
Kiwirules1000 4 months ago
Oh my.. you sound soooo boring. You weren't like that before, or were you?
Rafaelinux 4 months ago
annie is still easier to use than this guy, i have no idea why riot makes such unrewarding and easy champions.
Anonymous00616 4 months ago
Not all champs need to be challenging to play. Yes, good players of a certain character should be able to do more/better things, but I don't see this game being balanced for the top 3% of players. You have a lot of players who would like to play the role of a range carry but maybe are just not suited skill-wise for it. (I mainly jungle, never range carry unless I have to). So having someone who would be more of a "recommended" type is not a bad thing. maybe slight nerf on ratios would be enough.
polynaga 4 months ago 2
Um, his passive doesn't work that way. You say "40 armor and mr in the laning phase is over-powered" but the numbers on his passive scale with level so either you're still laning at level 16-17, or you payed no attention to something you're complaining about. Graves passive only goes up to 10 or 20 during the early levels. I'm really disappointed by this first impressions video. You took longer than normal to put it out, and you're still just complaining about a champ without learning the facts.
DoctorXerox 4 months ago
Nurf cry Nurf cry Nurf cry
MrAllrightyThen 4 months ago
Allready a first impression :O
jenske65 4 months ago
I love graves
ekzo303 4 months ago
haha, the shurelia juggling in the clips :DDD
FredOWNZ 4 months ago
"easy to use" but for some reason he fails alot on him <.<.
DRAGOON189 4 months ago
This video had way too much complaining in it.
hobo16529 4 months ago
Remotay!!!
Omer was playing with him :D
guagua300 4 months ago
i need to rank up quick how do i do that just play alot or wat i am not sure
westonscoots2011 4 months ago
You have the best commentating voice that I have heard on youtube. Calming yet strong, and very very clear and well enunciated. Favorite person on youtube is Faro atm.
devon31415 4 months ago
I'd say that cat. And trist. Counter him pretty well
lvesoccerartwork 4 months ago
I think they should nerf his autoattacks actually, ofcourse that's my opinion
CrossZiggy 4 months ago
cry cry more cry
geminix365 4 months ago
Completely agree on the skill point, I really like this character and AD carries generally but I really prefer to know that I'm doing well in a game because I've learnt them well, and have some ability, even though I'm not the best player. Not because the champ's so easy to use.
JXabierL 4 months ago
I definitely thing he's OP too, but for a different reason. I think the problem is that he does have that GIANT mage-like AoE Burst once he hits level 6 and he's also a pretty durable ranged carry. Best of both worlds.
I think the optimum burst needs to go down by at least 25%.
Oh, and his passive scales, so at the beginning he only gains 1 Armor and Mr per stack, not 4. Still durable though.
Poki3 4 months ago
sooo true Spunkify I hope he just gets a little rebuild or something right now he is to easy to play and he can carry you almost single handed to victory
thanks for this video
2Yproject 4 months ago
how did u get ur bottom charcter info and skills so small?
vegito864 4 months ago
Three cone shot from a double barrel shotgun. ok.
Drewkiimon 4 months ago 77
@Drewkiimon Indeed haha
Gigabajts 4 months ago
@Drewkiimon This is not a realistic game. ok.
dalaranman 4 months ago
@Drewkiimon Its like chuck norris, he has an additional barrel under his beard.
Guuziec 4 months ago
@Drewkiimon In HoN, a guy SNIPES with dual wield shot guns. These companies don't really care about the weapon design, they just go with what looks cool.
ITyraxI 4 months ago
@Drewkiimon 3 cone shot from a single barrel (i use Hired Gun Graves; thats a mindfuck)
MegaGamerRage 4 months ago
lol i dont think he is overpowered, he is very easy to focus cuz his range isnt too long
tortelenny 4 months ago
@tortelenny it's the same as vayne so it's pretty good. and u cant touch him as melee because of smokebomb
limearrr 4 months ago
@tortelenny It's the normal range for ad carry. Corki, ezreal vayne and mf have the same. He don't ave low range, it's juste ashe cait or kog have long range.
Noctaly 4 months ago
I've actually seen my friend fail as graves. lol
blahblahgdp 4 months ago
Thank god for draft-mode :D
Torpluss 4 months ago
His Q Too much damage, His R way too fast. Basically those things are the only problem imo.
blahblahgdp 4 months ago
DON'T HIT ME, I'M FARMING.
wxXFrozenflameXxw 4 months ago
jax beat him? wtf jax is one of the weakest top laners in lane
sYthyy 4 months ago
@sYthyy hey man, remember that guy with all that dodging chance? for like dodging all the autoattacks and such? that champion that can stun every 5 seconds ? what was his name again :/ man i totally forgot, something like: flax or Grax or jaggs or something...
fucking blackout man.
ImTheWackhead 4 months ago
@ImTheWackhead i said he is weak in lane but he is OP after the laning
sYthyy 4 months ago
i think they should nerf his dmg to cause he will be just to op in high elo and tournaments if you do what you say
sYthyy 4 months ago
@SuicidalSoldier7 Oh sure he can, just tried in a free game.
yogix11 4 months ago
i think mabye dropping the missle speed of the ult to make it possible to dodge it if your on the move. its so easy to hit ppl with it unless your retarded
shadowmarth32 4 months ago
Graves is so ridiculous because he has too many different ways to deal great damage. This whole "ease of use" thing comes about because he's rarely penalized for using any of his skills sub-optimally, and if he does use them correctly, well, kills just fall into his lap.
Thunder865 4 months ago
BREAKING NEWS, NIGGAS:
Morello just said that they're gonna look at his base stats. He originally had a bit lower range and had high base stats to compensate, then they increased the range but forgot to adjust his stats.
an0nim0uz 4 months ago
to be honest i havent had any trouble with graves... I have facerolled everyone as graves but HAVE NEVER lost any fights, lanes anything vs graves.
bendybow 4 months ago
4:07 Dear Spunkify, did you know that his e goes through walls? :D
yogix11 4 months ago 31
@yogix11 You can't through the dragon wall
SuicidalSoldier7 4 months ago
@SuicidalSoldier7 I've jumped through that wall?
Mujigsuppa 4 months ago
@Mujigsuppa I can't :<
SuicidalSoldier7 4 months ago
@SuicidalSoldier7 Now that you say it, I'm not sure I've done it, but I believe I've had O.o Maybe I'm thinking of Gragas or someone else.
Mujigsuppa 4 months ago
@yogix11 this is Faro lol :D
kaloiano1 4 months ago
Graves is OP imo
dizap001 4 months ago
leaguetopten got boring
wwefan9282 4 months ago
Says it's impossible to mess up with Q. Does it many times in video. Also it's easy to fuck up the E when using it to escape. It takes some "skill". But this is LoL. Since when has Skill been Riot's real concern?
Heto75 4 months ago
@Heto75 The person commenting isn't the same person playing.
thisisnotfaro 4 months ago
Jax!!!!
PrometeusGod 4 months ago
so is he balanced or op... i mean u said he was op all the way through until the end.
shadowseer92 4 months ago
it's like anivia, she has a massive burst. but if u want that burst, u must be able to play her. my friend has played anivia as main for a year now and he is beast with her. But with graves who has just as much if not more burst and dmg as anivia is so easy to play:P
alexmackzie 4 months ago
i dont know why i watch these impressions same shit as always zzz ..
meleniumz 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@meleniumz
than gtfo pls you dont want to see this and we dont want to read your comments
xBox360BENUTZER 4 months ago
@didy7178 start by shorting it's range, slow the skills charge up so it gives people some time to avoid the whole burst, increase the skills mana cost so u can't use it as much. None of they need to be changed by too much, Right now it's like fighting a talon that has 2x the range Usually skills that have that range and damage at least have a tell, is a skill shot, or long travel time. ie Caitlyn, sivir, tf, mundo, lux, nidalee, xerath
mangasaint 4 months ago
a friend told me that the counter to graves was stacking armour and magic resist as a tank/tanky champ... i played as taric and had about 250 armour and magic resist + the armour from my w and 3.5k health and graves still took me out, my conclusion was the counter to graves is run like hell
pontanto101 4 months ago
@pontanto101 The problem with armor against graves is, he'll just build black cleaver and Last whisper....
MasterLagoz 4 months ago
hevy is bulet proof (tf2)
graves is even stronger he is retard prof ....lol
SXsoft99 4 months ago
Very cleaver comment, especially for the Q spell
zeldaoos 4 months ago
How would you make his Q harder to hit?
didy7178 4 months ago
Graves needs his passive in late game bc he can't really buy defensive stuff if he wants to compete with other carries like Kog'Maw or a good Caitlyn.
d0ubl3CC 4 months ago