the arm was coming forward before the steelers player hit kurt warner in the arm the rule in the NFL is whe the player's arm is coming forward and is released from the player's hand it is ruled incomplete. Im guessing this was just another call to end the game and give the steelers their game unfairly just like super bowl 40. OH yeah im not a cardinals or seahawks fan i just know a bad call when i see one.
The first time when they said it was a forward pass it was as a fumble at the end of the game when it was a fumble I thought it was a foward pass that what I think
We have just, only minutes ago, been provided conclusive evidence that the ruling on this play is correct. In the ND-Pitt game earlier tonight, the ball was hit by a Panther defensive player JUST BEFORE the Irish QB moved his arm forward.
The ruling on the field was an incomplete pass. However, the booth saw that call may be incorrect based on the replays so they did a review. Sure enough, the call was reversed and correctly called a fumble.
this call is just like the 2002 afc play off between okland and new england, its almost impossible to get the right awnser because people are so biest,
whoever posted this video is an idiot. you're all idiots for arguing about this. who cares if it was or not. the Steelers would've done the same exact play, dropped 8 or 9 guys back in coverage, and the Cards still would've lost. even the great Fitzgerald can't get away from quadruple coverage.
I think you mean the Cards were favored by the Refs.
Warner takes his helmet off on the field and gets up in the refs face to argue and they don't flag him for either.
Fitzgerald runs 30 yds out of bounds to come back into tackle Harrison which you can only do if you are forced out, which he was not, and they didn't flag him.
On Boldwin catch and run in the 2nd quarter Fitzgerald blocks McFadden in the back and it's ignored.
On the safety the falg came out well after the ball was released.
There is no way you checked out the video I reccomended and stoped it on .19 and .20 and are still saying you can't see both feet down with possession.
What you ae really saying then is you hate that Pittsburgh won so you will sit in denile like a baby and say the didn't.
Since you're a Chargers fan who's team has never won a SB, and as long as Turner is your coach and LT is post season injury prone, never will.
There's no way you haven't seen Holmes with contro with both feet down at some angle.
It's true his foot comes up but only well after control in both hands and even for a moment as he begins to tuck it.
Why do you think Holmes immediately hugged the ball n the ground, he knew already and on NFL Films you hear Hines ask him if he thinks it's good during the review and Holmes says "No Doubt, my feet never left the ground"
He had No plays down field, they were all runs after the catch.
The Cards were running the ball in 3 playoff games becasue of their big lads put Pitt didn't allow them to jump all over them early as theydid all 3 other playoff teams.
Why isn't Pitt given credit for that?
Get real on the Holmes TD and have teh nerve to watch the right angle, It's all over Youtube if you want to look at the frontal angle.
0:19 is too late. Look at the direction Warner's arm is going before Woodley touches him. I'm talking at about 0:17 or 0:18. See how is arm reaches the lowest point then begins to come up and forward and THEN Woodley touches him. The QB's arm doesn't have to be past his shoulder or have come above his head - if his arm is moving forward at all, it's a pass. According to you, his arm is going down and backwards the entire time before Woodley touches him. But then why does his arm change direction
A forward pass is not decided based on the arm going in a certain motion when it's cocked all the way back but when the elbow begins to extend forward.
That is completely FALSE. A forward pass is ONLY decided by what direction his arm (and thus the ball in nearly all cases) is going. It has NOTHING - let me repeat - NOTHING to do with where the ball is in relation to his head or what position his arm is in.
Do you see where his arm reaches the lowest point and then changes direction just before Woodley even touches him? Then ask yourself what direction it is going after it changes direction? Either it's going backwards, stationary, or forward
You're trying really hard not to see this. His body is shifting forward? You can clearly see his forearm (and really his entire arm) moving before he's hit. The BALL is moving upwards for about a foot before Woodley hits him. Now, is that motion forward, backwards, or non-existent? It has to be one of those three. Watch the second or third replay on this video and tell me that Warner's arm (and the ball) isn't moving before he gets hit. Watch the point of his elbow in the second replay. OBVIOUS
They are all lieing about Holmes feet and Warner's arm, Right?
The NFL on the field refs, the upstairs booth and the VP of Officials Mike Perierea are All just lieing to us about the rules even though they qoute the Rule book word for word and show it on NFL Network Official review.
Every team but the Steelers are allowed to win SBs without haters crying about the Refs.
You are a Sore Loser who is nothing more than a Hater!
See, now you can't defend your claim and you're pointing to the refs to back you up. I'm not a Cards fan (born and raised in Dallas) - I am, however, an objective football fan. Personally I think Holmes was in on the TD, but THIS play cannot be defended as a fumble. I know you know, deep down, that I'm right about this.
OK, you KEEP talking about the wrong thing. I'm talking about BEFORE Warner was ever TOUCHED. Forget everything from when Woodley touches onward. BEFORE he's touched, Warner's arm reaches its lowest point, then changes direction as the ball starts to come up. It moves up for about a foot before Woodley touches him. Tell me, as the ball is coming up, is it moving horizontally forward or backwards? Compare when the ball is all the way back and down at 0:17 to where it is right before he's touched.
It's not specified because you're making up rules. It doesn't matter how far back his arm way. But you say it was moving straight upward with no horizontal motion? You can see in the second replay that the elbow point moves forward and the angle of his elbow doesn't change. It defies the physics of the body to say that the ball wasn't moving forward, even if only a little. And it would have only been 30 yards after the 15 yard penalty the Steelers got. Not a Hail Mary.
The penalty we got for taking off the helmet shows the refs weren't kissing our ass. Warner took his off on the field and got in the refs face earlier on the first funblethat was changed to incomplete pass and they didn't flag him.
Youneed to have your argument about his arm motion with the V experts I listed already who all disagree with you.
Hell, Dion still believes the first one was a fumble.
A jump ball from the 30 with 5 to 8 Steelers espcially T. Polamalu wan't going to happend.
Not to mention the safety called on our center was very questionable - Pittsburgh would have had a first down and could have run out the clock with the lead - that's a nine point swing on that call.
This is easy to figure out. Look at right before the defender first touches Warner. What direction is Warner's arm going at that point? Because if it's a fumble, it must either be going backward or not moving at all. However, before Woodley even touches Warner, we see in the video that Warner's arm starts to come up and forward. Not much to be sure, but definitely up and forward. So even if Warner lost control as SOON as Woodley touched him, he already began the throwing motion. Incomplete pass.
Again, it has absolutely nothing to do with where his arm is. It has ONLY to do with what direction it's moving. Clearly you don't watch much football.
Warner's arm reaches it's lowest point in the throwing motion, and then it changes direction and moves for about a foot before Woodley even touches him. After it starts to come back up, if it's still going backwards, that doesn't fit the natural motion of the arm while throwing. And it's not stationary obviously. His arm is coming forward.
Hey heres another reason why this play would have ended the game...The ball touched an OL so if it was actually a pass attempt an illegal touching by an OL would have been the correct ruling which would have required a 15 second runnoff of the clock game over anyway!
I think the Cardinals proved their worth in this game. It's unfortunate that both coordinators are already gone and Boldin is thinking of going....not to mention Warner's status.
If they stay together, they should make it back. My hats off to them in any case....what a game!
You gotta be kinda stupid to say that... the guy gets a 112 rating against the best past defense in the NFL and you just say "I wouldn't say Warner is a horrible QB"... you're right, he isn't horrible, he's one of the best in history.
Dude, I meant nothing demeaning by that. I like Warner, I thought I made that perfectly clear. That idiot was being unrealistic. He definitely is one of the best ever, and I would take him on my team anytime. 3 best performances in super Bowl history is no fluke. The man is money!
Sorry, I saw someone else's comment and replied to you. People don't realize that the quarterback is one player. Just because the team loses doesn't mean the quarterback did bad necessarily. Wasn't Kurt Warner 2nd or 3rd in TDs this year? Why did the Cardinals go 9-7 then? Well, the worst rush offense in the NFL, and a poor defense (that really picked it up in the post season). Put Warner on the Steelers or Patriots or Ravens or Falcons or a solid defensive/offensive team, and
and you have an automatic Superbowl. Roethlisberger is an average QB on a team that makes the opposing defense mostly worry about the run, and with great blocking and wide receivers. Warner's on a team where the opposing defense doesn't even need to give the run a thought at all, just concentrate on Warner and receivers. The guy's a solid QB. BTW, remember, the Patriots stole the Rams' offensive practice tapes back in Superbowl 36.. take that away, easy win for the Rams.
im not a steelers fan but after that game how can you consider Roetlisberger an average quarterback, every play on that last drive happened because of his ability as a quarterback
Not really, it happened because of a poor and really worn out defense (that played really bad in the first half), and the whole drive was basically one long play where there was no defense. Holmes was standing there for 4 seconds, then he waved and slapped his numbers to Roethlisberger, then Roethlisberger FINALLY saw him, and he sprinted downfield to about the 2 or 3. Then came the TD a couple plays later, despite having one foot on the ground, but w/e. Good job AZ defense, you blew it.
Steelers had #1 defense in the damn NFL this year.
It was the Cardinals who had the sucky defense.
Two fails right here on your part:
1) failing to comprehend.
2) bringing back a discussion made during the time of Superbowl's aftermath, which by now is long done. The fact that you, a Steeler fanatic is still raving about it shows you have some issues.
I noticed you rated that one star? Why? Because you know it's true and that your team got fucked up by the bigtime underdog but had the refs working with you. Hehe, stop being such a gayass Steeler fanatic and be a little objective.
My bad I thought u were talkin about this video. As far as the other video, I rated it 1 star cuz it's bs. Dude showed 1 frame of the play when if u watch the actual video, Holmes CLEARLY had both feet down. They showed it a thousand times on NBC and NOBODY disputed that it was a TD, just whiny Cards fans. And how did my squad get f'd up "bigtime" by them when Pittsburgh won?
Despite the consistent failures of the Cards defense and the domination of the #1 ranked Steeler defense that doesn't allow more than what, 12 points per game? the Cardinals' offense were rolling all over them. The Steelers D wasn't sucking, it's just the Cards O was a hell of a lot better, particularly Warner.
I watched the Holmes TD at least 20 times, it never looked to me that he got the TD, and I'm not a whiny Cards fan lol. I like the Bolts and Rams and Warner.
I hear u but Ive watched the play over and over and it always looks like a TD to me. As far as the Cards O vs the Steelers D, the Steelers D kept them in check thru 3 quarters. They only had 7 points til they got their 2nd TD in the 4th quarter so unless u were only talkin about the 4th, idk wat ur talkin about.
The # 1 D held the cards to 21 O points when they were scoring 31/34 per game and it took them 3 1/2 quarters to get more than 7 and without the safety they only score 14.
All of Warners big yad were when Pitt was tired and had been containing him all game as Pitt's O wasn't putting enough pts on the board.
Also, Holmes taps both feet with control of the ball in his hands and one foot only comes up after he has shown control and begins to tuck it.
Cards scored 21 O pts when they were scoring 31/34 per game.
It took 3 1/2 quarters to score more than 7.
Without the safety where the flag's thrown after the ball's released and replay shows the linmean would've never gotten to Ben on time, the game is over 20-14.
Refs threw a flag in endzone that gave you 2 pts and a free kick then flaged Pitt for holding on the first play of the last drive and ignored Warner taking his helmet off on the field to argue.
The ball is hit and twisted in Warner's hand when it's still behind his head and before the forward motion starts. The instant that ball is twisted in his grasp, it becomes a fumble. NFL VP of Officials said that the correct call was made, but he would have preferred that the on-field officials be allowed to review, if only to preempt the belly-aching and boo-hooing.
now I'm no cards fan, and I really don't care who won, but its clearly a forward pass the only thing that matters is the split second before woodley gets to warner. The ball is clearly moving forward. check out :18; the ball is without question moving forward, its not a fumble. it was a great game anyway, but a last second hail mary (complete or not) would have made it that much better.
How come if warner had so much control of the ball. It didnt come out as some tight spiral. The ball came loose and followed the throwing motion downfield. It is the same concept as a player losingall contro b as they are being tackled. It is a sure sign of desper
One thing to remember: The call on the field was a fumble. Even if they did a formal review (and actually the booth DID look at it and decided no review was needed) they would have needed CONCLUSIVE VISUAL EVIDENCE to overturn it...which you do not have.
That said I would have actually welcomed a reversal and let Warner have that one last crack at the endzone just to put this kind of rant to rest.
3 of the replays are too blurred. the only definitive angle was from above where they had a high speed camera, and it shows that the ball never left Warner's hand. The ball got pinned against Warner's shoulder but he never lets go of the ball. As he tries to throw his wrist is bent down so it looks on the other replays as though he bats the ball with his forearm, but in reality it never left his hand. It took me almost five minutes to fully look at every replay, and I do replays for a living.
the ball was hit before his arm was going forward but he doesnt lose control of it until just before its out, it should have been INCOMPLETE. reinz what are you watching? he ball is never on his elbow, its in his hand his wrist just bends. and you cant compare it to a normal throw because it was obviously interrupted. the only thinG that matters is if his hand is moving forward with the ball in control, and it was, whether the motion was "normal" doesnt matter.
Warners arm is coming up but not forward from what I see, his body was in the twisting motion to throw but his hand was still in that dwell point a split second before throwing when he lost control of the ball. Good call Ref's.
Around the :19 sec mark. Watch Warner's elbow. In a throw the elbow moves first then the hand. Woodley knocks the ball free from Warner's hand in the direction of his wrist before elbow or hand are moving forward. The ball rolls down onto Warner's forearm and that is when he starts the throwing motion. It looks like a throw because Warner's forearm hits the ball in the direction of the throw but by then he had lost control of the ball. That's a fumble. Steeler recovery and its game over.
Incomplete pass. With a 15 yard penalty they would've had 5 seconds from the 29 yard line. A pass interference call puts the ball at the 1 with an untimed down. Fitzgerald makes a jump ball grab. Game over. but we'll never know because the refs were going to control the outcome no matter what. Arz already won 2 challenges, give them the benefit of the doubt and take another look. What a crock of shit.
Comment removed
piratejack39 4 months ago
I'm not a fan of these teams but i say it was not a fumble
nymphetemine16 1 year ago
the arm was coming forward before the steelers player hit kurt warner in the arm the rule in the NFL is whe the player's arm is coming forward and is released from the player's hand it is ruled incomplete. Im guessing this was just another call to end the game and give the steelers their game unfairly just like super bowl 40. OH yeah im not a cardinals or seahawks fan i just know a bad call when i see one.
perdue93 1 year ago
The first time when they said it was a forward pass it was as a fumble at the end of the game when it was a fumble I thought it was a foward pass that what I think
dwayne459 1 year ago
even if it wasnt a fumble (which is was!) if it was a pass the steelers would have picked it off! no differance!!
cak20CFL 2 years ago
yeah, thats a fumble cuz he didnt have control on the ball as it was going forward
devinpaul10 2 years ago
We have just, only minutes ago, been provided conclusive evidence that the ruling on this play is correct. In the ND-Pitt game earlier tonight, the ball was hit by a Panther defensive player JUST BEFORE the Irish QB moved his arm forward.
The ruling on the field was an incomplete pass. However, the booth saw that call may be incorrect based on the replays so they did a review. Sure enough, the call was reversed and correctly called a fumble.
pacmantab 2 years ago
this call is just like the 2002 afc play off between okland and new england, its almost impossible to get the right awnser because people are so biest,
i think it was incomplete, but thats just me
rofltruck 2 years ago
it is a fumble because a pittsburgh defender hit the ball when kurt warner threw it!!!!!
steelersrawsome 2 years ago
whoever posted this video is an idiot. you're all idiots for arguing about this. who cares if it was or not. the Steelers would've done the same exact play, dropped 8 or 9 guys back in coverage, and the Cards still would've lost. even the great Fitzgerald can't get away from quadruple coverage.
N86Dawg 2 years ago
Probably but it would have been really exciting to see a jump ball.
mikemilonesays 2 years ago
I think you mean the Cards were favored by the Refs.
Warner takes his helmet off on the field and gets up in the refs face to argue and they don't flag him for either.
Fitzgerald runs 30 yds out of bounds to come back into tackle Harrison which you can only do if you are forced out, which he was not, and they didn't flag him.
On Boldwin catch and run in the 2nd quarter Fitzgerald blocks McFadden in the back and it's ignored.
On the safety the falg came out well after the ball was released.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
There is no way you checked out the video I reccomended and stoped it on .19 and .20 and are still saying you can't see both feet down with possession.
What you ae really saying then is you hate that Pittsburgh won so you will sit in denile like a baby and say the didn't.
Since you're a Chargers fan who's team has never won a SB, and as long as Turner is your coach and LT is post season injury prone, never will.
I guess you're depressed.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
If you dare i ask that you check out the video on Youtube "greatest Super Bowl Catch Ever Steelers Holmes 43 XLIII"
When it get to .19 and .20 you will change your mind, I promise.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
You're lieing and just being stubborn.
There's no way you haven't seen Holmes with contro with both feet down at some angle.
It's true his foot comes up but only well after control in both hands and even for a moment as he begins to tuck it.
Why do you think Holmes immediately hugged the ball n the ground, he knew already and on NFL Films you hear Hines ask him if he thinks it's good during the review and Holmes says "No Doubt, my feet never left the ground"
I'll send you a clip.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
Youar eso full of shit.
Most of Warner's big yds were dink and dunk.
He had No plays down field, they were all runs after the catch.
The Cards were running the ball in 3 playoff games becasue of their big lads put Pitt didn't allow them to jump all over them early as theydid all 3 other playoff teams.
Why isn't Pitt given credit for that?
Get real on the Holmes TD and have teh nerve to watch the right angle, It's all over Youtube if you want to look at the frontal angle.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
0:19 is too late. Look at the direction Warner's arm is going before Woodley touches him. I'm talking at about 0:17 or 0:18. See how is arm reaches the lowest point then begins to come up and forward and THEN Woodley touches him. The QB's arm doesn't have to be past his shoulder or have come above his head - if his arm is moving forward at all, it's a pass. According to you, his arm is going down and backwards the entire time before Woodley touches him. But then why does his arm change direction
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
A forward pass is not decided based on the arm going in a certain motion when it's cocked all the way back but when the elbow begins to extend forward.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
That is completely FALSE. A forward pass is ONLY decided by what direction his arm (and thus the ball in nearly all cases) is going. It has NOTHING - let me repeat - NOTHING to do with where the ball is in relation to his head or what position his arm is in.
Do you see where his arm reaches the lowest point and then changes direction just before Woodley even touches him? Then ask yourself what direction it is going after it changes direction? Either it's going backwards, stationary, or forward
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
Comment removed
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
Warner's body is shifting forward not his arm.
The arm does not begin to move forward by it's self until after Woodley hits it.
It was ruled a fumble on the field.
Then confirmed upstaris automatically as it was under 2 minutes then confirmed again by Mike Pieriea the VP of Officials.
I guess they are all lieing, Right?
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
You're trying really hard not to see this. His body is shifting forward? You can clearly see his forearm (and really his entire arm) moving before he's hit. The BALL is moving upwards for about a foot before Woodley hits him. Now, is that motion forward, backwards, or non-existent? It has to be one of those three. Watch the second or third replay on this video and tell me that Warner's arm (and the ball) isn't moving before he gets hit. Watch the point of his elbow in the second replay. OBVIOUS
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
Okay Goldenbolt13!
They are all lieing about Holmes feet and Warner's arm, Right?
The NFL on the field refs, the upstairs booth and the VP of Officials Mike Perierea are All just lieing to us about the rules even though they qoute the Rule book word for word and show it on NFL Network Official review.
Every team but the Steelers are allowed to win SBs without haters crying about the Refs.
You are a Sore Loser who is nothing more than a Hater!
Your dispostion will never change the 6 Rings!
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
See, now you can't defend your claim and you're pointing to the refs to back you up. I'm not a Cards fan (born and raised in Dallas) - I am, however, an objective football fan. Personally I think Holmes was in on the TD, but THIS play cannot be defended as a fumble. I know you know, deep down, that I'm right about this.
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
His arm was moving forward and that the ball was sill in his hand when it went forward.
But upstairs confirmed it a fumble casue it was no longer gripped in his hand, therefore out of control
You can feel deep down what ever.
It won' tchange the naked eye refs, upstairs booth and VP all know more than you and confirmed it 3 times as a fumble.
ESPN nor NFL Network claimed it was incomplete only that it should have been reviewd, then they found out later that it was.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
OK, you KEEP talking about the wrong thing. I'm talking about BEFORE Warner was ever TOUCHED. Forget everything from when Woodley touches onward. BEFORE he's touched, Warner's arm reaches its lowest point, then changes direction as the ball starts to come up. It moves up for about a foot before Woodley touches him. Tell me, as the ball is coming up, is it moving horizontally forward or backwards? Compare when the ball is all the way back and down at 0:17 to where it is right before he's touched.
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
It's not moving forward but upward .
The position never changes, elbow, wrist ect. just the rising of the arm.
Though not specified in the book the NFL has never judged forward motion when the arm is cocked that far back only when the elbow extends.
EVERY one said it was a fumble, Madden, Michales, Deion, both PTI guys, Jim Rome, Mike and Mike in the Morning plus the VP.
Didn't matter, there was 5 sec left and a HAil Mary with 8 Steelers going up is not the same as a jump ball with 1 or 2.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
It's not specified because you're making up rules. It doesn't matter how far back his arm way. But you say it was moving straight upward with no horizontal motion? You can see in the second replay that the elbow point moves forward and the angle of his elbow doesn't change. It defies the physics of the body to say that the ball wasn't moving forward, even if only a little. And it would have only been 30 yards after the 15 yard penalty the Steelers got. Not a Hail Mary.
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
The penalty we got for taking off the helmet shows the refs weren't kissing our ass. Warner took his off on the field and got in the refs face earlier on the first funblethat was changed to incomplete pass and they didn't flag him.
Youneed to have your argument about his arm motion with the V experts I listed already who all disagree with you.
Hell, Dion still believes the first one was a fumble.
A jump ball from the 30 with 5 to 8 Steelers espcially T. Polamalu wan't going to happend.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
Not to mention the safety called on our center was very questionable - Pittsburgh would have had a first down and could have run out the clock with the lead - that's a nine point swing on that call.
Denierbud11 2 years ago
Doesn't matter, actually. The ball hit an OL on the way to the ground.
Buying the argument that it was a pass, that's ineligble receiver against the Cardinals. That's a ten-second run-off. Steelers still win it.
2009 Training camp started today, so come join the rest of us in the present, please....
pacmantab 2 years ago
This is easy to figure out. Look at right before the defender first touches Warner. What direction is Warner's arm going at that point? Because if it's a fumble, it must either be going backward or not moving at all. However, before Woodley even touches Warner, we see in the video that Warner's arm starts to come up and forward. Not much to be sure, but definitely up and forward. So even if Warner lost control as SOON as Woodley touched him, he already began the throwing motion. Incomplete pass.
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
Warner's arm is all they way behind his Helment when Woodley touches the ball.
Everything you said makes no sense, is arm only moves faorward after he looses possession.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
Again, it has absolutely nothing to do with where his arm is. It has ONLY to do with what direction it's moving. Clearly you don't watch much football.
Warner's arm reaches it's lowest point in the throwing motion, and then it changes direction and moves for about a foot before Woodley even touches him. After it starts to come back up, if it's still going backwards, that doesn't fit the natural motion of the arm while throwing. And it's not stationary obviously. His arm is coming forward.
TheSchubert21 2 years ago
U R DUM.
konank666 2 years ago
Not fumble .. Ref is a fuckin retard (excuse my language)
RIGGED.
ChazmSpazms 3 years ago
It was a fumble. He had 0 control of the ball when his arm was comin forward. It definately should've been reviewed, but it was a fumble.
sixsteel 2 years ago
Hey heres another reason why this play would have ended the game...The ball touched an OL so if it was actually a pass attempt an illegal touching by an OL would have been the correct ruling which would have required a 15 second runnoff of the clock game over anyway!
b1gair 3 years ago
hey, what smells like bullshit?
Gameaddict619 3 years ago
I think the Cardinals proved their worth in this game. It's unfortunate that both coordinators are already gone and Boldin is thinking of going....not to mention Warner's status.
If they stay together, they should make it back. My hats off to them in any case....what a game!
pacmantab 3 years ago
Come now people, I root for Pittsburgh but I wouldn't say Warner is a horrible QB. Let's be realistic.
dwsmacker 3 years ago
You gotta be kinda stupid to say that... the guy gets a 112 rating against the best past defense in the NFL and you just say "I wouldn't say Warner is a horrible QB"... you're right, he isn't horrible, he's one of the best in history.
GoldenBolt13 3 years ago
Dude, I meant nothing demeaning by that. I like Warner, I thought I made that perfectly clear. That idiot was being unrealistic. He definitely is one of the best ever, and I would take him on my team anytime. 3 best performances in super Bowl history is no fluke. The man is money!
dwsmacker 3 years ago
Sorry, I saw someone else's comment and replied to you. People don't realize that the quarterback is one player. Just because the team loses doesn't mean the quarterback did bad necessarily. Wasn't Kurt Warner 2nd or 3rd in TDs this year? Why did the Cardinals go 9-7 then? Well, the worst rush offense in the NFL, and a poor defense (that really picked it up in the post season). Put Warner on the Steelers or Patriots or Ravens or Falcons or a solid defensive/offensive team, and
GoldenBolt13 3 years ago
and you have an automatic Superbowl. Roethlisberger is an average QB on a team that makes the opposing defense mostly worry about the run, and with great blocking and wide receivers. Warner's on a team where the opposing defense doesn't even need to give the run a thought at all, just concentrate on Warner and receivers. The guy's a solid QB. BTW, remember, the Patriots stole the Rams' offensive practice tapes back in Superbowl 36.. take that away, easy win for the Rams.
GoldenBolt13 3 years ago
im not a steelers fan but after that game how can you consider Roetlisberger an average quarterback, every play on that last drive happened because of his ability as a quarterback
jizzmoppa 3 years ago
Not really, it happened because of a poor and really worn out defense (that played really bad in the first half), and the whole drive was basically one long play where there was no defense. Holmes was standing there for 4 seconds, then he waved and slapped his numbers to Roethlisberger, then Roethlisberger FINALLY saw him, and he sprinted downfield to about the 2 or 3. Then came the TD a couple plays later, despite having one foot on the ground, but w/e. Good job AZ defense, you blew it.
GoldenBolt13 3 years ago
So I guess his game winning drives against Jacksonville, Baltimore, & San Diego this past season were all because of bad defense too, huh?
sixsteel 2 years ago
Who are you takling about, the Steelers?
Steelers had #1 defense in the damn NFL this year.
It was the Cardinals who had the sucky defense.
Two fails right here on your part:
1) failing to comprehend.
2) bringing back a discussion made during the time of Superbowl's aftermath, which by now is long done. The fact that you, a Steeler fanatic is still raving about it shows you have some issues.
GoldenBolt13 2 years ago
"Why The Cardnals should have won Super Bowl 43!"
I noticed you rated that one star? Why? Because you know it's true and that your team got fucked up by the bigtime underdog but had the refs working with you. Hehe, stop being such a gayass Steeler fanatic and be a little objective.
GoldenBolt13 2 years ago
Were u talkin 2 me, cuz I didn't even rate it until 2 seconds ago...
sixsteel 2 years ago
My bad I thought u were talkin about this video. As far as the other video, I rated it 1 star cuz it's bs. Dude showed 1 frame of the play when if u watch the actual video, Holmes CLEARLY had both feet down. They showed it a thousand times on NBC and NOBODY disputed that it was a TD, just whiny Cards fans. And how did my squad get f'd up "bigtime" by them when Pittsburgh won?
sixsteel 2 years ago
Despite the consistent failures of the Cards defense and the domination of the #1 ranked Steeler defense that doesn't allow more than what, 12 points per game? the Cardinals' offense were rolling all over them. The Steelers D wasn't sucking, it's just the Cards O was a hell of a lot better, particularly Warner.
I watched the Holmes TD at least 20 times, it never looked to me that he got the TD, and I'm not a whiny Cards fan lol. I like the Bolts and Rams and Warner.
GoldenBolt13 2 years ago
I hear u but Ive watched the play over and over and it always looks like a TD to me. As far as the Cards O vs the Steelers D, the Steelers D kept them in check thru 3 quarters. They only had 7 points til they got their 2nd TD in the 4th quarter so unless u were only talkin about the 4th, idk wat ur talkin about.
sixsteel 2 years ago
The 2/9 edition of Sports Illustrated has a great photo of the moment Holmes had the ball (pg. 36)....both toes down...indisputable.
Sorry....
pacmantab 2 years ago
The # 1 D held the cards to 21 O points when they were scoring 31/34 per game and it took them 3 1/2 quarters to get more than 7 and without the safety they only score 14.
All of Warners big yad were when Pitt was tired and had been containing him all game as Pitt's O wasn't putting enough pts on the board.
Also, Holmes taps both feet with control of the ball in his hands and one foot only comes up after he has shown control and begins to tuck it.
Watch the frontal angle.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
How did the Steelers get fucked?
Cards scored 21 O pts when they were scoring 31/34 per game.
It took 3 1/2 quarters to score more than 7.
Without the safety where the flag's thrown after the ball's released and replay shows the linmean would've never gotten to Ben on time, the game is over 20-14.
Refs threw a flag in endzone that gave you 2 pts and a free kick then flaged Pitt for holding on the first play of the last drive and ignored Warner taking his helmet off on the field to argue.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
That, and I misread what you said. Until I saw what blueapple said. I thought you were making an independent statement.
GoldenBolt13 3 years ago
Warner is a horrible QB, just deal with it.
blueapple3 3 years ago
WTF he did better than Ben Gay
Coolfoxhound5 3 years ago
112 rating against #1 pass defense. I'd bet my money Peyton couldn't do that on his best game of his life.
GoldenBolt13 3 years ago
The ball is hit and twisted in Warner's hand when it's still behind his head and before the forward motion starts. The instant that ball is twisted in his grasp, it becomes a fumble. NFL VP of Officials said that the correct call was made, but he would have preferred that the on-field officials be allowed to review, if only to preempt the belly-aching and boo-hooing.
tifosi77 3 years ago 3
now I'm no cards fan, and I really don't care who won, but its clearly a forward pass the only thing that matters is the split second before woodley gets to warner. The ball is clearly moving forward. check out :18; the ball is without question moving forward, its not a fumble. it was a great game anyway, but a last second hail mary (complete or not) would have made it that much better.
lsquad1 3 years ago
steelers 6* time super bowl champions
JxT1957 3 years ago
How come if warner had so much control of the ball. It didnt come out as some tight spiral. The ball came loose and followed the throwing motion downfield. It is the same concept as a player losingall contro b as they are being tackled. It is a sure sign of desper
rangerstott 3 years ago
One thing to remember: The call on the field was a fumble. Even if they did a formal review (and actually the booth DID look at it and decided no review was needed) they would have needed CONCLUSIVE VISUAL EVIDENCE to overturn it...which you do not have.
That said I would have actually welcomed a reversal and let Warner have that one last crack at the endzone just to put this kind of rant to rest.
pacmantab 3 years ago
3 of the replays are too blurred. the only definitive angle was from above where they had a high speed camera, and it shows that the ball never left Warner's hand. The ball got pinned against Warner's shoulder but he never lets go of the ball. As he tries to throw his wrist is bent down so it looks on the other replays as though he bats the ball with his forearm, but in reality it never left his hand. It took me almost five minutes to fully look at every replay, and I do replays for a living.
videoguy102560 3 years ago
the ball was hit before his arm was going forward but he doesnt lose control of it until just before its out, it should have been INCOMPLETE. reinz what are you watching? he ball is never on his elbow, its in his hand his wrist just bends. and you cant compare it to a normal throw because it was obviously interrupted. the only thinG that matters is if his hand is moving forward with the ball in control, and it was, whether the motion was "normal" doesnt matter.
pappagiorgio24 3 years ago
First of all, what are you changing? Second, if you want to argue about it, become a goddamn referee then. Third- Steelers would've won anyway.
zagnagma 3 years ago
Since when did you become a psychic? Last time I heard they didnt exist.
Cerickson3187 3 years ago
Warners arm is coming up but not forward from what I see, his body was in the twisting motion to throw but his hand was still in that dwell point a split second before throwing when he lost control of the ball. Good call Ref's.
lunarson1967 3 years ago
pretty sure if it was Brady it would have been a incomplete pass
SlimHonke 3 years ago
Around the :19 sec mark. Watch Warner's elbow. In a throw the elbow moves first then the hand. Woodley knocks the ball free from Warner's hand in the direction of his wrist before elbow or hand are moving forward. The ball rolls down onto Warner's forearm and that is when he starts the throwing motion. It looks like a throw because Warner's forearm hits the ball in the direction of the throw but by then he had lost control of the ball. That's a fumble. Steeler recovery and its game over.
Rienzi1863 3 years ago
Incomplete pass. With a 15 yard penalty they would've had 5 seconds from the 29 yard line. A pass interference call puts the ball at the 1 with an untimed down. Fitzgerald makes a jump ball grab. Game over. but we'll never know because the refs were going to control the outcome no matter what. Arz already won 2 challenges, give them the benefit of the doubt and take another look. What a crock of shit.
jjcarlso 3 years ago
Aww baby, gonna go QQ, you lost, so quit arguing.
zagnagma 3 years ago
Not a cards fan. Just call it like I see it.
jjcarlso 3 years ago