I don't roll my eyes when female singers sing it. But after hearing male singers go at it, female versions sound pretty and "decorative." When someone like Fisher-Dieskau, Hampson, or Christian Gerhaher (Kent Nagano, conducting) tackle "Der Abschied," there's a Hamlet-like drama. I'm not saying Mahler's lieder are best left to the guys, but many of them, such as the "Kindertotenlieder," are told from a male perspective. "Der Abschied" isn't a trouser role. That's MY goofy opinion, anyway.
Never fails to bring tears to the eye. I find Kathlene Ferrier irresistable. It is my biggest regret that I never heard her or John Coltrane perform live. Which recording is best? Does it matter: Mahler's wonderful vision can be seen through many eyes. But, for me Walter and Ferrier bring a lovers beauty to the music which I find unique!!
Even with the dated sound, this is still my favorite version of the movement. Looking beyond that, Ludwig is splendid in the Klemperer recording. The one of her with Bernstein I am not as fond of. The rarely mentioned Hoffmann/Rosbaud is also very fine. Neither of Fischer-Dieskau's recordings with Kletzki and Bernstein resonates with me, nor does Hampson with Rattle. Still, I am very tempted to get the DF-D/Wunderlich/VPO/Krips CD.
You guys are all hung up on "authenticity." That Walter and Ferrier were terrific artists goes without saying. But to state the there has never been a better giving of something is ludicrous.
My God. Bernstein? Thomas Hampson? Christa Ludwig?Von Karajan? Haitink? Eschenbach? Tilson-Thomas? Fischer-Diskau? All in2nd place? Give me a break. This is wonderful music, but no one "owns" it. Not even Bruno Walter, who was Mahler's protegee.
Cant say I adore Walter's conduction but Ferrier is like a Voice coming from another dimension in this repertoire. She had the saddest vocal timbre in the history of the female voices
@flylooper I'm on your side. I'm glad we're getting over the outdated "tradition" of hearing women sing Mahler songs that are more profound, less "pretty," when sung by men. I'm not going to toss my Janet Baker, Ferrier or Jessye Norman recordings out but, seriously, Hampson and Fischer-Dieskau are what Mahler had in mind.
According to Henry de La Grange in his absolutely definitive 3 volume bio of Mahler, Bruno Walter believed that Mahler would have chosen a soprano and a contralto to sing Das Lied. (He never lived long enough to hear it performed.), the reason being that it was too strenuous for the male voice (at least the ones of his day. v.3, page 1324) Even today, there is a shortage of true contralto's though. Nevertheless, I love my copy of Hampson with the VPO and Lenny.
@flylooper When you quote de La Grange, that's pretty much the end of the debate. The defense rests. Still, by specifying "low voice" and "high voice," Mahler is being pretty flexible. He might've gone with the best singers, male or female, depending on who was available and how good they were. Still, Walter BELIEVING Mahler WOULD have chosen soprano and contralto sounds more like that old softy Walter's preferences. I'm pretty much sold on tenor and baritones by now; yeah, the MTT.
I can't help but think that if Mahler were alive today and he heard, say, Fisher-Diskau or Hampson (among others) sing the "Abschied," he'd have approved heartily.
Anyone else come here via "Alma?"
SCE2AUX 1 month ago
I don't roll my eyes when female singers sing it. But after hearing male singers go at it, female versions sound pretty and "decorative." When someone like Fisher-Dieskau, Hampson, or Christian Gerhaher (Kent Nagano, conducting) tackle "Der Abschied," there's a Hamlet-like drama. I'm not saying Mahler's lieder are best left to the guys, but many of them, such as the "Kindertotenlieder," are told from a male perspective. "Der Abschied" isn't a trouser role. That's MY goofy opinion, anyway.
TheStockwell 2 months ago
LOVE IT! <3
QueenKaryBoO 3 months ago
Never fails to bring tears to the eye. I find Kathlene Ferrier irresistable. It is my biggest regret that I never heard her or John Coltrane perform live. Which recording is best? Does it matter: Mahler's wonderful vision can be seen through many eyes. But, for me Walter and Ferrier bring a lovers beauty to the music which I find unique!!
davidmbaker55 6 months ago
Even with the dated sound, this is still my favorite version of the movement. Looking beyond that, Ludwig is splendid in the Klemperer recording. The one of her with Bernstein I am not as fond of. The rarely mentioned Hoffmann/Rosbaud is also very fine. Neither of Fischer-Dieskau's recordings with Kletzki and Bernstein resonates with me, nor does Hampson with Rattle. Still, I am very tempted to get the DF-D/Wunderlich/VPO/Krips CD.
yingdat 7 months ago
You guys are all hung up on "authenticity." That Walter and Ferrier were terrific artists goes without saying. But to state the there has never been a better giving of something is ludicrous.
My God. Bernstein? Thomas Hampson? Christa Ludwig?Von Karajan? Haitink? Eschenbach? Tilson-Thomas? Fischer-Diskau? All in2nd place? Give me a break. This is wonderful music, but no one "owns" it. Not even Bruno Walter, who was Mahler's protegee.
flylooper 8 months ago 2
Cant say I adore Walter's conduction but Ferrier is like a Voice coming from another dimension in this repertoire. She had the saddest vocal timbre in the history of the female voices
LohengrinT 10 months ago
I better like 'Hell's Picture Scroll' - kind a cover of this piece
by Toru Takemitsu for (Akira Kurosawa's) RAN .
Forgive me - if you take me how an ignorant. I'm definnitiely not but
here this structure is too unclear. It's coused by the unconseqentional
use of major / minor mix. I prefer darker Takemitsu's version.
Oszych2 1 year ago
Comment removed
bluesandroots2008 1 year ago
divine
lpipmp 1 year ago
Never was there a better rendering of this wonderful piece than this one with Kathleen Ferrier - never can there be either
Rubbermaskman 1 year ago
@Rubbermaskman
Nonsense. Thomas Hampson and Lennie.
flylooper 1 year ago
@flylooper Rubbish
CandyHaleLinton 7 months ago
@flylooper I'm on your side. I'm glad we're getting over the outdated "tradition" of hearing women sing Mahler songs that are more profound, less "pretty," when sung by men. I'm not going to toss my Janet Baker, Ferrier or Jessye Norman recordings out but, seriously, Hampson and Fischer-Dieskau are what Mahler had in mind.
TheStockwell 2 months ago
@TheStockwell
According to Henry de La Grange in his absolutely definitive 3 volume bio of Mahler, Bruno Walter believed that Mahler would have chosen a soprano and a contralto to sing Das Lied. (He never lived long enough to hear it performed.), the reason being that it was too strenuous for the male voice (at least the ones of his day. v.3, page 1324) Even today, there is a shortage of true contralto's though. Nevertheless, I love my copy of Hampson with the VPO and Lenny.
flylooper 2 months ago
@flylooper Oops! Check that. My copy is Hampson and the San Fran with MTT.
flylooper 2 months ago
@flylooper When you quote de La Grange, that's pretty much the end of the debate. The defense rests. Still, by specifying "low voice" and "high voice," Mahler is being pretty flexible. He might've gone with the best singers, male or female, depending on who was available and how good they were. Still, Walter BELIEVING Mahler WOULD have chosen soprano and contralto sounds more like that old softy Walter's preferences. I'm pretty much sold on tenor and baritones by now; yeah, the MTT.
TheStockwell 2 months ago
@TheStockwell
I can't help but think that if Mahler were alive today and he heard, say, Fisher-Diskau or Hampson (among others) sing the "Abschied," he'd have approved heartily.
flylooper 2 months ago
@Rubbermaskman
i agree, never can there be either....
buickschrauba 1 year ago
Magnífico !,Ferrier canta con fuerza y emoción incomparables.
Magnificent !, Ferrier sings with incomparable force and emotion.
TheLeonardoSaez 2 years ago 6