At first greetings from germany. Awesome vid very informative. Normally I got a little problem understanding english native speakers. But I understood every word! Nice work. Funny anecdote about the needle cushion :D
Those people with the incomplete - aka missing the armpit - mail hauberks will add those rings beneath the arm pretty bloody fast after they got hit there the first time. Even with blunt blades it hurts quite a bit.
@lindybeige have you tried using eth bugged ethereal items? It has way more defence on armours and more damage on weapons but sadly it cannot be repaired.
The "padding" was actually very stiff, and was often worn as armor by itself. it is this, not the mail, which might burden free motion. Welded mail was made, but was very expensive due to the amount of fuel to make so many welds and the expertise required to make them witout burning up the thin links. I've seen but not touched the Brittish antistab vests. They seem to be made of steel mesh/woven wire.
@lindybeige Yes. This was the first video I watched, and I posted the comment while the video was playing. I've started making some this morning using the directions on your site.
Aye but in Archaeology we enjoy giving names for just about ever style of anything ever. we rarely get to name anything these days so we'll jump on most oppurtunities to name a style :D
@Bankstercide Welding was done by heating things up in a forge. How could they do this with mail? Today we have spot-welding tools using electricity and high-pressure flammable gas.
@lindybeige I see. Seeing how there aren't any examples of welded mail, I figure that must be the case.
People who try to recreate ancient crafts have mentioned how clever ancient craftsmen were, so I wondered if ancient smiths learned some sort of method or workaround to make the known technique of welding applicable to mail.
@lindybeige: I have heard stories about how chainmail/mail became phenomenally more expensive after the Black Death, as the labor shortage (and corresponding price of labor increase) drove the cost of manufacture up compared to less labor-intensive armors. The more dramatic stories claim that chainmail was more expensive than even platemail after the Black Death. Do you think this could be true?
@tenthousandsuns Less smiths and trade infrastructure disrupted by the Black Death = restricted supply.
But the people who bought mail also died in droves, which meant a reduction in demand. Consider also that armour and weapons were handed down over generations.
If we were talking about, say, warhorses, which are expended in war and eventually wear out and die, that might be the case
If you're buying mail from a store, how can you tell the difference between cosmetic renaissance fair mail and the stuff that actually keeps you from dying?
@CantStopTheMadness1 Riveted mail is a LOT more expensive, though. Aluminium mail is made for lightness (for actors etc.), so avoid that. If the ends of the wire rings come to a chisel-like point, because they've been clipped with wire cutters, avoid. Fancy modern coatings on the wire - avoid. If you cannot lift the entire shirt by one ring without that ring's bending - avoid. Rings that are large are best avoided (say, above 12mm internal diam).
Does anyone else think it's funny that the Englishman took an entire minute of a five and a half minute video on chain mail to tell us that he is talking about chain mail and not other types of armor?
An interesting point regarding mail is that lamellar remained the dominant armour type in cultures east of India.
Not sure why; maybe since both armour seem to share the same advantages and disadvantages? The extensive trade via spice and silk routes meant that mail would be familiar to East Asians.
Chainmail will give way to pointed objects since its, well, chain. Lammelar is made of linked metal plates (or leather, likewise) so It wont really give way to anything, it'll need to be forced through the segments or the plate itself will need to fracture.
I have question regarding the process of fixing the rings together. I've of two types, one called buffeted, the other riveted. I can take a guess at riveted, but what process is used for buffeted? Which one is better at keeping one from being disemboweled.
Can you recommend some online sources for acquiring quality chainmail? ...ideally less expensive sources. When looking to buy chainmail what points should be considered?
@chabochi1 I hesitate to become anyone's commercial, but the site "get dressed for battle dot co dot uk " is pretty good value. It isn't the highest quality, but it is certainly cheap. I'm told that it keeps an entire village employed in India. They supplied the mail for "Kingdom of heaven" except for Mr Bloom's which was made of rubber so that he wouldn't scratch himself on it.
I have a friend lengthening my mail for me at the moment, can't wait to get it back. He's putting a hood on it too which I think is pretty cool.
Could you possibly tell me a bit more about your reenactment group? I'm hoping to start doing some dark age stuff as well as the high-medieval I currently do and from your video about Franciscas I'd imagine your group is dark age :)
@MrTrykster The weight distribution would be better with a byrnie (T-shirt), and the shoulders would be protected, including from downward blows skidding off the helmet. A mail tank top would still be better than nothing, though.
I would like to comment about chainmail as a piece of military technology. First, it remained in use into the 17th century, so that should give you some idea of its usefulness. As far as western military use, its "dominance" as the preferred type of armor was compromised by the crossbow, the longbow, and by improved types of maces designed to pierce it. If you look at the death effigy of the Black Prince, you will see the transition circa 1350, to plate, for the reasons stated above.
Actually it was worn well into the 20th century by some oriental and other areas like parts of India and the Pacific.
And no, it was NOT compromised by the crossbow or longbow. Chain was worn for nearly 2500 years for a reason. WHile not PROOF against bolts and arrows, it still protected against them quite well. Heck chain was worn as a major part of armour for quite a while.
a point on heat :) i presume that you're from GB. i've heard that your summer aren't so sunny as here in croatia... here during summer wearing chainmail is really awkward especially during midday. it gets VERY hot (however, not as hot as helmet)
i don't know if you've already answered this, sorry if you have, but I watch a lot of knight shows and such and in the fights they get hit with an arrow and BAM they're dead. Is that realistic and if so why even wear chainmail. Also they get slashed across the stomach a lot and fall over dead while wearing it, would that actually reach their skin and kill them? Thank you so much for taking the time to read this!
@MrRemusHowl Instant kills would be very rare. It can take days to die from a belly wound. The commonest way to drop someone would be a massive bash to the head and knock them out.
@MrRemusHowl Mail would save your life. It could take 900 work hours to make a full Hauberk and it would cost as much as 12 oxen... like owning a Lambo today. It was by no means a waste of money or time. As the armory at leeds states "it is almost impossible to penetrate using any conventional medieval weapon". Infact it was replaced by plate not because plate was alot better (plate is better at stopping blunt force at the cost of less coverage), but because it was cheaper (think BMW) lol
@MrRemusHowl During the 3rd Crusade, Bahā'al-Dīn, Saladin's biographer, wrote that the Norman crusaders were: “...drawn up in front of the cavalry, stood firm as a wall, and every foot-soldier wore a vest of thick felt and a coat of mail so dense and strong that our arrows made no impression on them... I saw some with from one to ten arrows sticking in them, and still advancing at their ordinary pace without leaving the ranks”
@MrRemusHowl No, because the sword wouldn't have gone through the chain-mail if the person was hacking at them.
To the arrow: it depends. Unless they were hit in the eye or something, it would be extremley unlikely that an arrow would kill a man instantly, even if it did pierce his chain mail, and the coat of arms he had over that, and the shirt he had under the mail. The most dangerous thing about an arrow wound is what happens after the fight has ended and you've pulled it out.
@madasnave I'm really not sure what you mean by this.... all mail armor was what you mean by "chain mail." When he says scale mail or whatever, he's saying that some idiot started calling it that and it caught on - not that it's accurate.
I just got chain mail in the mail. It has armpits just like yours. Mine however has long baggy sleeves that make it noisier. Mine is also shinier. I could have had in in black but I like it shiny better. There is a video on you tube that tests chain mail and they shoot through several layers with a bow and arrow.
@44SCB During the 3rd Crusade, Bahā'al-Dīn, Saladin's biographer, wrote that the Norman crusaders were:
“...drawn up in front of the cavalry, stood firm as a wall, and every foot-soldier wore a vest of thick felt and a coat of mail so dense and strong that our arrows made no impression on them... I saw some with from one to ten arrows sticking in them, and still advancing at their ordinary pace without leaving the ranks”
@frost2021 Generally no. There is a misconception that this happened because people see mail in the armpits and such like gaps in the plate. Actually, though, those bits of mail were patches attached to a padded suit worn under the plate. Some small plates for things like knees and shoulders were added over mail for a while as knights gradually made the transition from ail to plate. Mail under plate is very inefficient. Better just to have thicker plate.
You really should make a movie. A realistic one with a villain trying to tear up vellum(hnnngrh!! grrr!! *pant, pant*), and swords that go "floff!" when they're unsheathed. ;)
@madasnave Plate armor is VERY mobile but Chian mail is more mobile. Most Chian Mail was in fact lighter then ppl think. A guy named Parker can make Flatten Riveted Chian mail for a man that is 5 feet and 10 in tall it will be only about 15 lbs. Do not get me wrong plate amor is light too.
i made a chainmail shirt and god does it takes a long time, a good 100hours if not more while watching tv. I find it hard on the shoulders if you wear it for long period of times.
Would you happen to know where to get a full set of chainmail online at all? I've been looking for websites where I could get a set primarily for decoration purposes.
@seoden How did thick layers of wool keep them cool? By wicking away moisture? By keeping out the heat? That would work if they stayed still, but once they started running around I think the insulation would act against them.
@lindybeige Logically, I couldn't see how layers of wool could keep soldiers cool either, but according to "Nihayat al-Su'l wa'l Umniyaya fi Ta'lim A'mal al-Furusiyya" a military manual relating to cavalry found throughout much of the saracen world from 1250-1500, the padded (qarqal) garment "will protect the wearer from heat and cold". Possibly, being mounted didn't require much movement on their part but the manual does mention dismounting as they regularly did. It's an old manual of that time
Great vids. Very informative. I'm considering starting small and making a Chainmail Bracelet. Although I'm a bit overwhelmed by all of the different sizes of the individual links. (Gauge and inside diameter.) Do you have any suggestions? Thanks a ton.
May I ask how you store your mail - yes, I say mail, though that might be just to trigger a letter-mail-post-thingy related pun - I build a stand for mine, but since the stand is almost as tall as I am and the armour is a fullgrown hauberk, it is quite a pain to get it on or off the stand. Also, against the hair getting entangled in the rings whilst putting the armour on or getting it of, well anyhow against that, those padded caps you wear under a helmet work great.
@lindybeige thank you for the advice, and I saw clip about the shield, I truly did not know that a shield attached with a belt has the worst ability to protect the bearer should one enter a combat alone, another, the sword rested on one's right hip seems to work, but the thing is that is not as popular as the sword that rested on one's left hip and you are you are definitely correct about trying to unsheathe a sword from one's back, but a short sword or a dagger should work with ease, right?
@paperboard1 People did not layer armour much, except to add padding to hard materials. If stronger armour were wanted, they wore one thicker layer rather than two thinner ones that would take twice as long to put on.
There more I see of the videos the more I love your work. Be careful though, you're in danger of bringing intelligence and culture to the internet. It may break.
Actually HOLDING mercury would not the the big issue, the danger is that it evaporates and you inhale it. As long as you don't hold it too long and wash your hands thoroughly afterwards there's no real danger.
seeing this video makes me so pissed about pseudo science shows like Deadliest Warrior in which they claimed that Chainmail is Useless as armor. They even put a bronze cuirass on a pedestal claiming that it was superior to the mail in every way...
My riveted mail has been through hell and it has hardly needed any repairs at all.
Seeing this makes the point of how ancient craftsmen were a lot more knowledgeable then we give them the credit for. These were people who put a lot of thought into their work regarding it's usefulness in combat including it's functionability and comfort to the wearer. We often don't think about it in our modern times that they would have made things functionable.
Heya, you have some really good points. Just wondering, where did you get your mail? I'm trying to find a cheap'ish sleeveless vest for a costume... I use to make bits and peices but I really dont have the time. Cheers!
@lindybeige After a few good long attempts at making it, I have admitted defeat, turned tail and fled to ebay. Should be having a nice chain mail shirt similar to yours sometime tomorrow. Your guides were great, I just don't have the patience hehe :P
One more point, I think their method of shield and sword didn't really call for much lifting of the arms above shoulder level, but that's only speculation.
What I'm saying is that I'm sure the vikings themselves had such hauberks and that's why said records exist.
Though 45 degree seam shirts do look nice in my opinion. I started making mine with the idea of easy to make sleeves and then realized how cumbersome the shirt would be.
Also, this happens to be the method that most simplifies the addition of sleeves, so I can see why some vikings would have worn hauberks of this type.
Chainmaille can constrict movements depending on how it's woven. For example, if you're making what's called a 45 degree seam shirt (using trapezoid shaped pieces of maille connected at an angle to hang opposite the maille, which makes it so that when you lift your arms the entire shirt lifts as well, making it IMPOSSIBLE to lift your arms above shoulder level when the maille is belted on.
@MetalCatharsis Must be pretty poorly made. I have 45 degree shoulder seams and they don't restrict movement. Yes the whole shirt lifts up when you lift your arms, but only from above the belt if you have sufficient overhang. Point being: it weighs on your shoulders, but doesn't otherwise hinder movement. Plus 45 degree pattern looks infinitely better than barrel and straps.
i was wondering if you could tell me where you got the wire for your rings. i would like to start making it but there arn't too many places that sell much. thanks :)
@lindybeige unfortunatley i don't have a factory near me aha. i've looked around in places like B and Q but i really have difficulty finding any. do you have any other ideas?
Hah, I agree with the whole "mail" thing that Gary Gygex made popular. Though I am an RPG nerd I must agree calling every single armor 'mail' other than chainmail is a bit silly.
one question, if i was to have a fairly limited amount of chainmail, ( say enough links for a piece say... 10 inch by 5 inch, for example (though my piece is made out of 3/4 inch keychain rings, tell me based on if it was made of the 6mm rings you have in your burnie, point is if i only had those WHERE, do you think would be the spot id put that piece and itd be of the most use (one idea i had for my current scrap of 'key-chainmail' was to use it on the outside of my arm like a bracer of sorts
alright then, now i just need to fashion a helmet to attatch it too, but hopefully by then ill have gotten some extra cash to do some proper mail making, ill focus first on a coif, seems to take a smaller amount of links.
luckily ive found an aussie company (annoyingly they aren't centred in my state) called manning imperial that will sell you unconnected links at a rate of, about 10-12 $AU for 1000 rings at sizes btween 8-10 mm and 1 1/2-1 1/4 mm thick spring steel.
now i just need to convince my family exactly why they should help pay to ship 1-3000 pieces of ring shaped wire upstate ;-0 thankfully though it shouldnt be too hard.
also, if you lookthem up head to their greek and romen section of armour. they seem to sell a reproduction of the iron cuirass found in the tomb of phillip of macedon. (THAT philip of macedon just incase theres another philip that wasnt a total washout)
The tomb, I believe, though commonly referred to as his, is merely assumed to be his from the fact that its date is about right and it is very rich. Yes - Phil the Second, Alex's dad.
in any case its a beautiful piece, though like your mention of the leather cuirass, looks VERY boxy and not very form fitting,
yes, interesting you mention that about the tomb, the main piece of evidence they cite being the supposed skull in the box of remain, which they say when reconstructed shows an inury inone eye, that eye, phillip was noted to have lost to a lead sling bullet. all in all the work by the company, manufactured by them is VERY interesting, if you havent already checked.
I admire your great expertise on this topic. Perhaps you could cover lamellar, scale or lorica segmentata on a future video? These armors don't get much press time but they were widely used by many of the cultures that also used mail, especially the romans and byzantines.
Some armour had plates with holes around the edge for attaching to mail. the mail would be in between the plates, not behind /under them. With gothic field plate, the knight would have mail patches sewn to his padded leather suit worn under the armour, where the gaps in the plate were.
I posted a response video of the chainmail shirt and vest that I made, the shirt is just my own pattern and the vest is the 4 in 1 pattern. i made them so they were shorter than my clothes so i can wear them underneath my clothes. I might make one more shirt like your one, the only problem is my rings are about 13mm in diameter and i dont have anything for making smaller rings
Your website is absolutely brilliant! Thanks to you I now have got the hang of contractions in mail. Thats a most impressive byrnie you made. It fits very well!
chainmalle at 14ga 1/4id is rather tight making it rather great for reduceing the space for a stab. The Vikings seem to prefer a mix of solid rings and rivited combined with the arming coat which was an 1in of cotton and fabric. this tended to also reduce the penetration of the incoming stabs. problem weighs 20+ pounds
From where I'm sitting I cannot 'prove' you wrong, but this seems like rubbish to me. It would weigh a ton, and I've never seen or heard of an example of such armour. Might you have misheard?
i dont think the vikings would where there almost 1 inch chain mail as a full body .they would have patches of chain mail and probably whared some leather armor with it.
I think the history channel may have been referring to the padding BENEATH the chainmail, eg - a gambeson. Chainmail would always be worn with padding some form of padding underneath it, the chainmail protects against slashing and stabbing, the padding protects from blunt trauma.
You are a "very lucky bunny" indeed to be able to handle the museum piece! I'm jealous!
Your byrnie fits beautifully. Thanks for the fun video! I can't believe someone thought Vikings would have to fight with straight arms - anyone who's handled chainmail would know that that is ridiculous.
Thumbs up if you spell "maille" with two Ls and an E.
MadassAlex 2 weeks ago
At first greetings from germany. Awesome vid very informative. Normally I got a little problem understanding english native speakers. But I understood every word! Nice work. Funny anecdote about the needle cushion :D
"Papiere bitte!" :-)
foiafrey 1 month ago
Those people with the incomplete - aka missing the armpit - mail hauberks will add those rings beneath the arm pretty bloody fast after they got hit there the first time. Even with blunt blades it hurts quite a bit.
IcEye89 2 months ago
i use archon plate or mageplate works pretty well because not much strength is required to wear.
Unguidedone 2 months ago 3
@Unguidedone Yes, mithril and adamantium also come recommended.
lindybeige 2 months ago 10
@lindybeige have you tried using eth bugged ethereal items? It has way more defence on armours and more damage on weapons but sadly it cannot be repaired.
Unguidedone 2 months ago
The "padding" was actually very stiff, and was often worn as armor by itself. it is this, not the mail, which might burden free motion. Welded mail was made, but was very expensive due to the amount of fuel to make so many welds and the expertise required to make them witout burning up the thin links. I've seen but not touched the Brittish antistab vests. They seem to be made of steel mesh/woven wire.
TOMHYLE88 2 months ago
@TOMHYLE88 Yes, thick padding is stiffer than chainmail. The stab vests are super-dense cloth.
lindybeige 2 months ago
I usually see 4in1 patterns for armor like yours, but I have to hand it to you, a 6in1 pattern is impressive!
By the way, all of your points (in all of the other videos you've made, too) are all correct and very rich in info.
How long have you been building chainmaille?
aabceacba 2 months ago
I've been watching you're videos for a couple of hours now. You're hilarious. "It stops you from dying." I love you :P
0bligh 2 months ago
So would this make a good anti-stabbing vest?
KikiDaiso 3 months ago
@KikiDaiso Yes, but there are better modern materials now, as worn by the British police - super-dense cloth.
lindybeige 3 months ago
That is truly a beautiful shirt.
ChanmailleMan 3 months ago
Whats your website?
TheTheValer 3 months ago
@TheTheValer You mean, the address that is at the end of all the videos and in all the video descriptions?
lindybeige 3 months ago 3
@lindybeige Yes. This was the first video I watched, and I posted the comment while the video was playing. I've started making some this morning using the directions on your site.
TheTheValer 3 months ago
Aye but in Archaeology we enjoy giving names for just about ever style of anything ever. we rarely get to name anything these days so we'll jump on most oppurtunities to name a style :D
Beardedkomedy 3 months ago
Question - i've always seen mail riveted closed; yet from ancient blades I know that welding was not unknown to smiths at that time.
Is there some sort of reason why you can't just weld the rings shut? I imagine it would be stronger and lighter that way.
Bankstercide 4 months ago
@Bankstercide Welding was done by heating things up in a forge. How could they do this with mail? Today we have spot-welding tools using electricity and high-pressure flammable gas.
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige I see. Seeing how there aren't any examples of welded mail, I figure that must be the case.
People who try to recreate ancient crafts have mentioned how clever ancient craftsmen were, so I wondered if ancient smiths learned some sort of method or workaround to make the known technique of welding applicable to mail.
Bankstercide 3 months ago
@lindybeige: I have heard stories about how chainmail/mail became phenomenally more expensive after the Black Death, as the labor shortage (and corresponding price of labor increase) drove the cost of manufacture up compared to less labor-intensive armors. The more dramatic stories claim that chainmail was more expensive than even platemail after the Black Death. Do you think this could be true?
tenthousandsuns 4 months ago
@tenthousandsuns Less smiths and trade infrastructure disrupted by the Black Death = restricted supply.
But the people who bought mail also died in droves, which meant a reduction in demand. Consider also that armour and weapons were handed down over generations.
If we were talking about, say, warhorses, which are expended in war and eventually wear out and die, that might be the case
Bankstercide 4 months ago
what kind of chainmaile is this
medievalhistoryrocks 4 months ago
If you're buying mail from a store, how can you tell the difference between cosmetic renaissance fair mail and the stuff that actually keeps you from dying?
godofimagination 4 months ago
@godofimagination Is it riveted? If so, it'll stop you from dying.
CantStopTheMadness1 4 months ago
@CantStopTheMadness1 Riveted mail is a LOT more expensive, though. Aluminium mail is made for lightness (for actors etc.), so avoid that. If the ends of the wire rings come to a chisel-like point, because they've been clipped with wire cutters, avoid. Fancy modern coatings on the wire - avoid. If you cannot lift the entire shirt by one ring without that ring's bending - avoid. Rings that are large are best avoided (say, above 12mm internal diam).
lindybeige 4 months ago
Does anyone else think it's funny that the Englishman took an entire minute of a five and a half minute video on chain mail to tell us that he is talking about chain mail and not other types of armor?
Brandonkerrfl 4 months ago
@Brandonkerrfl Yes, I do for one.
lindybeige 4 months ago 4
@Brandonkerrfl "... the Englishman took ..."
Yup, well done for spotting that he's English. And?
crapatev 3 months ago
An interesting point regarding mail is that lamellar remained the dominant armour type in cultures east of India.
Not sure why; maybe since both armour seem to share the same advantages and disadvantages? The extensive trade via spice and silk routes meant that mail would be familiar to East Asians.
Bankstercide 5 months ago 2
@Bankstercide
Chainmail will give way to pointed objects since its, well, chain. Lammelar is made of linked metal plates (or leather, likewise) so It wont really give way to anything, it'll need to be forced through the segments or the plate itself will need to fracture.
0hypnotoad0 4 months ago
Guy-jacks? Damn Englishmen. It's Gygax!
Duterasemis 5 months ago
@Duterasemis I think his full name was "Gygax the Slayer".
lindybeige 5 months ago
What pattern did you use for your chainmail?
zachsbanks 5 months ago
@zachsbanks "European pattern" standard 4 in 1. See my website for all the details of expansions and contractions etc.
lindybeige 5 months ago
I have question regarding the process of fixing the rings together. I've of two types, one called buffeted, the other riveted. I can take a guess at riveted, but what process is used for buffeted? Which one is better at keeping one from being disemboweled.
Thunderblade117 6 months ago
@Thunderblade117 I suspect you mean "butted" which just means bending the ends until they meet, so riveted is stronger.
lindybeige 6 months ago
were do you get your chain mail?
kj8022 6 months ago
@kj8022 I made it with calloused hands.
lindybeige 6 months ago
Maille is a french word meaning chain or link, so chainmail means chainchain. So platemail means platechain and etc.
iainmud 7 months ago
Can you recommend some online sources for acquiring quality chainmail? ...ideally less expensive sources. When looking to buy chainmail what points should be considered?
chabochi1 8 months ago
@chabochi1 I hesitate to become anyone's commercial, but the site "get dressed for battle dot co dot uk " is pretty good value. It isn't the highest quality, but it is certainly cheap. I'm told that it keeps an entire village employed in India. They supplied the mail for "Kingdom of heaven" except for Mr Bloom's which was made of rubber so that he wouldn't scratch himself on it.
lindybeige 8 months ago
@chabochi1 try CAS hanwei. im not sure but i do believe they do historically accurate mail
mouthforwar17 6 months ago
How heavy is it?
Cakevspie94 8 months ago
@Cakevspie94 About 24 lbs. That's fairly typical.
lindybeige 8 months ago
@lindybeige You have inspired me to create my own fest. I am 600 links in so far. Did you use 3/8 inch or 1/4 rings? I looks like 1/4 to me
Cakevspie94 8 months ago
@Cakevspie94 Internal diameter 6mm.
lindybeige 8 months ago
@Cakevspie94 im 34000rings in, hang in there
GetReal38 5 months ago
I've just finished my chainmail! I love my heavy t-shirt; it's similar to yours except no subductiond etc., just rectangles and mistakes.
whowantsabighug 8 months ago
stops you dying LOL
im subscribing right now
notsuferatu 10 months ago
one person doesn't have chainmail over their armpits
JossJossJoss1 10 months ago
If I had some good maille, I'd wear it all the time. Always use protection I say.
demomanchaos 10 months ago
You looked a bit like House in this video :D
I have a friend lengthening my mail for me at the moment, can't wait to get it back. He's putting a hood on it too which I think is pretty cool.
Could you possibly tell me a bit more about your reenactment group? I'm hoping to start doing some dark age stuff as well as the high-medieval I currently do and from your video about Franciscas I'd imagine your group is dark age :)
666satanification666 11 months ago
@666satanification666 It WAS dark age, yes. I don't think it exists any more.
lindybeige 11 months ago
How could the vikings had put up any fight if they had to fight whit stright arms?
inkva 11 months ago
If you say "mail", that refers to letters of some sort.
NoisemakerArrow 11 months ago
All valid points, but the 'It stops you from dying' one sold me. ^^
SecondSince 11 months ago 21
@SecondSince If you are familiar with bulletproof vests or physical therapy, you'll know there's always a catch:
"It stops you from dying... but it'll make you wish you'd died instead."
Bankstercide 3 months ago
I like scale mail.
DavidTheDefender 11 months ago
one question: would there be disadvantages of creating a mail armor without any sleeves, sort of like a tank top? weight distribution for example
MrTrykster 1 year ago
@MrTrykster The weight distribution would be better with a byrnie (T-shirt), and the shoulders would be protected, including from downward blows skidding off the helmet. A mail tank top would still be better than nothing, though.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lindybeige
thank you kind sir :)
MrTrykster 1 year ago
I would like to comment about chainmail as a piece of military technology. First, it remained in use into the 17th century, so that should give you some idea of its usefulness. As far as western military use, its "dominance" as the preferred type of armor was compromised by the crossbow, the longbow, and by improved types of maces designed to pierce it. If you look at the death effigy of the Black Prince, you will see the transition circa 1350, to plate, for the reasons stated above.
lebarosky 1 year ago
@lebarosky
Actually it was worn well into the 20th century by some oriental and other areas like parts of India and the Pacific.
And no, it was NOT compromised by the crossbow or longbow. Chain was worn for nearly 2500 years for a reason. WHile not PROOF against bolts and arrows, it still protected against them quite well. Heck chain was worn as a major part of armour for quite a while.
EvilxMerlin 11 months ago
a point on heat :) i presume that you're from GB. i've heard that your summer aren't so sunny as here in croatia... here during summer wearing chainmail is really awkward especially during midday. it gets VERY hot (however, not as hot as helmet)
DUIRduje 1 year ago
i don't know if you've already answered this, sorry if you have, but I watch a lot of knight shows and such and in the fights they get hit with an arrow and BAM they're dead. Is that realistic and if so why even wear chainmail. Also they get slashed across the stomach a lot and fall over dead while wearing it, would that actually reach their skin and kill them? Thank you so much for taking the time to read this!
MrRemusHowl 1 year ago
@MrRemusHowl Instant kills would be very rare. It can take days to die from a belly wound. The commonest way to drop someone would be a massive bash to the head and knock them out.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lindybeige
It would take days to die from a belly wound? I think you'd be dead pretty quickly with your guts spilling out...
SkiDesignS 1 year ago
@SkiDesignS It _could_ take days, yes.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@MrRemusHowl Mail would save your life. It could take 900 work hours to make a full Hauberk and it would cost as much as 12 oxen... like owning a Lambo today. It was by no means a waste of money or time. As the armory at leeds states "it is almost impossible to penetrate using any conventional medieval weapon". Infact it was replaced by plate not because plate was alot better (plate is better at stopping blunt force at the cost of less coverage), but because it was cheaper (think BMW) lol
TimothyMellott 1 year ago
@TimothyMellott
FINALLY! Someone has it correct. Not just because it was cheaper, but plate was easier to make...
EvilxMerlin 11 months ago
@MrRemusHowl NO, armor worked very well!
xxTeutonicKnightxx 11 months ago
@MrRemusHowl During the 3rd Crusade, Bahā'al-Dīn, Saladin's biographer, wrote that the Norman crusaders were: “...drawn up in front of the cavalry, stood firm as a wall, and every foot-soldier wore a vest of thick felt and a coat of mail so dense and strong that our arrows made no impression on them... I saw some with from one to ten arrows sticking in them, and still advancing at their ordinary pace without leaving the ranks”
xxTeutonicKnightxx 11 months ago
@MrRemusHowl No, because the sword wouldn't have gone through the chain-mail if the person was hacking at them.
To the arrow: it depends. Unless they were hit in the eye or something, it would be extremley unlikely that an arrow would kill a man instantly, even if it did pierce his chain mail, and the coat of arms he had over that, and the shirt he had under the mail. The most dangerous thing about an arrow wound is what happens after the fight has ended and you've pulled it out.
LucanJacups 11 months ago
@madasnave I'm really not sure what you mean by this.... all mail armor was what you mean by "chain mail." When he says scale mail or whatever, he's saying that some idiot started calling it that and it caught on - not that it's accurate.
Andernerd 1 year ago
fun video
dlmarti 1 year ago
you're awseome! I wish my history teacher had been like you! And I love your humor and insights on all those chainmail misconceptions everyone has :)
MineFieldExplorer 1 year ago
I just got chain mail in the mail. It has armpits just like yours. Mine however has long baggy sleeves that make it noisier. Mine is also shinier. I could have had in in black but I like it shiny better. There is a video on you tube that tests chain mail and they shoot through several layers with a bow and arrow.
44SCB 1 year ago
@44SCB Was that battle-ready mail or just butted mail?
TheScandinavianOne 1 year ago
@44SCB During the 3rd Crusade, Bahā'al-Dīn, Saladin's biographer, wrote that the Norman crusaders were:
“...drawn up in front of the cavalry, stood firm as a wall, and every foot-soldier wore a vest of thick felt and a coat of mail so dense and strong that our arrows made no impression on them... I saw some with from one to ten arrows sticking in them, and still advancing at their ordinary pace without leaving the ranks”
xxTeutonicKnightxx 1 year ago
Hey, I have a question. Would chailmail ever be worn underneath plate armor ? Thanks. :]
frost2021 1 year ago
@frost2021 Generally no. There is a misconception that this happened because people see mail in the armpits and such like gaps in the plate. Actually, though, those bits of mail were patches attached to a padded suit worn under the plate. Some small plates for things like knees and shoulders were added over mail for a while as knights gradually made the transition from ail to plate. Mail under plate is very inefficient. Better just to have thicker plate.
lindybeige 1 year ago
You really should make a movie. A realistic one with a villain trying to tear up vellum(hnnngrh!! grrr!! *pant, pant*), and swords that go "floff!" when they're unsheathed. ;)
permhaaland 1 year ago
in all honesty, to me it would seem that any mail armor other then chain mail would honestly become to heavy to be more mobile then plate armor.
madasnave 1 year ago
@madasnave Plate armor is VERY mobile but Chian mail is more mobile. Most Chian Mail was in fact lighter then ppl think. A guy named Parker can make Flatten Riveted Chian mail for a man that is 5 feet and 10 in tall it will be only about 15 lbs. Do not get me wrong plate amor is light too.
xxTeutonicKnightxx 1 year ago
@xxTeutonicKnightxx Soldiers in World War ONe went over the top into No Man's Land carrying a lot more weight than medieval knights.
lindybeige 1 year ago
i made a chainmail shirt and god does it takes a long time, a good 100hours if not more while watching tv. I find it hard on the shoulders if you wear it for long period of times.
lordmat666 1 year ago
@lordmat666 I reckon mine too 250 hours (small rings). When I finished I didn't know what to do with my hands when the telly was on.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lordmat666 Use small links, wear a stiff belt, and pad it underneath.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lindybeige Is there any Place to get authentic reproduction Maille made to Measure, that you can recommend?
LutzDerLurch 1 year ago
Hello, just a small question here. I would be interested in knowing your opinion on falchion vs mail.
BillHABS 1 year ago
@BillHABS It would be turned from a cutting weapon into an iron bar for bashing.
lindybeige 1 year ago
Would you happen to know where to get a full set of chainmail online at all? I've been looking for websites where I could get a set primarily for decoration purposes.
NateStei 1 year ago
@NateStei Best value I know is getdressedforbattle dot co dot uk
lindybeige 1 year ago
how do you connect the sleeves and the body?
Franklolful 1 year ago
@Franklolful See the mail section of my website.
lindybeige 1 year ago
the padding under armour not only insulated but also kept soldiers cool in hot climates
seoden 1 year ago
@seoden How did thick layers of wool keep them cool? By wicking away moisture? By keeping out the heat? That would work if they stayed still, but once they started running around I think the insulation would act against them.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lindybeige Logically, I couldn't see how layers of wool could keep soldiers cool either, but according to "Nihayat al-Su'l wa'l Umniyaya fi Ta'lim A'mal al-Furusiyya" a military manual relating to cavalry found throughout much of the saracen world from 1250-1500, the padded (qarqal) garment "will protect the wearer from heat and cold". Possibly, being mounted didn't require much movement on their part but the manual does mention dismounting as they regularly did. It's an old manual of that time
seoden 1 year ago
@seoden It protects you against mail that has heated in the sun, which could scorch the skin.
lindybeige 1 year ago
Wow this guy is so awesome!
I hope your a lecturer! Educate the people.
watchingvids101 1 year ago 12
@watchingvids101 you're*
Tobyreinel18 4 months ago
Very good! Ty
Octavius0 1 year ago
Great vids. Very informative. I'm considering starting small and making a Chainmail Bracelet. Although I'm a bit overwhelmed by all of the different sizes of the individual links. (Gauge and inside diameter.) Do you have any suggestions? Thanks a ton.
fpscrash1992 1 year ago
@fpscrash1992 Use round-section wire, not square. For comfortable jewellery you should go for smaller links. Just start.
lindybeige 1 year ago
vikings used battle axes and swong them in circleing patterns as they burserked who ever wrote that book was a foolish one for sure.
madasnave 1 year ago
I liked the points you made about the maille(old spelling ftw)
TeHGoodReverend 1 year ago
May I ask how you store your mail - yes, I say mail, though that might be just to trigger a letter-mail-post-thingy related pun - I build a stand for mine, but since the stand is almost as tall as I am and the armour is a fullgrown hauberk, it is quite a pain to get it on or off the stand. Also, against the hair getting entangled in the rings whilst putting the armour on or getting it of, well anyhow against that, those padded caps you wear under a helmet work great.
IcEye89 1 year ago
@IcEye89 I don't store mine on display. I just keep it in a bag. Yes, hair can get caught, but I just put up with it.
lindybeige 1 year ago
thank you for the advice
paperboard1 1 year ago
@lindybeige thank you for the advice, and I saw clip about the shield, I truly did not know that a shield attached with a belt has the worst ability to protect the bearer should one enter a combat alone, another, the sword rested on one's right hip seems to work, but the thing is that is not as popular as the sword that rested on one's left hip and you are you are definitely correct about trying to unsheathe a sword from one's back, but a short sword or a dagger should work with ease, right?
paperboard1 1 year ago
@paperboard1 I wouldn't wear a dagger on my back. It would be an open invitation to other people to draw it for me when I'm in the pub.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lindybeige oh, thanks for the tip again
paperboard1 1 year ago
does the term "two is better than one" truly goes with the chainmail, as in wearing two pieces of chainmail fabric?
paperboard1 1 year ago
@paperboard1 People did not layer armour much, except to add padding to hard materials. If stronger armour were wanted, they wore one thicker layer rather than two thinner ones that would take twice as long to put on.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lindybeige But in the 14th century it was common to supplement chaim mail with buckle on pieces of plate, say on shoulders, knees, elbows.
DonMeaker 1 year ago
There more I see of the videos the more I love your work. Be careful though, you're in danger of bringing intelligence and culture to the internet. It may break.
;)
wesmatron 1 year ago
BLOB OF MERCURY? lol dont put that in your hand
HELLZONE7745 1 year ago
@HELLZONE7745
Actually HOLDING mercury would not the the big issue, the danger is that it evaporates and you inhale it. As long as you don't hold it too long and wash your hands thoroughly afterwards there's no real danger.
DanielKay06 1 year ago
@DanielKay06 Always keep some sulphur handy for neutralising it.
lindybeige 1 year ago
Is it true that chainmail is heavier than platemail, or have I been tricked?
Savaril 1 year ago
@Savaril No answer to that one, other than 'it depends'.
lindybeige 1 year ago
Nice video, one comment only. Isn't the patern used to worn so the patern goes sideways? so that it doesnt fall open?
if it does, you wil get less protection from your maille.
Himotary 1 year ago
chainmaille is so much fun to play with
Pendragondnd 1 year ago
seeing this video makes me so pissed about pseudo science shows like Deadliest Warrior in which they claimed that Chainmail is Useless as armor. They even put a bronze cuirass on a pedestal claiming that it was superior to the mail in every way...
My riveted mail has been through hell and it has hardly needed any repairs at all.
BlackWaltz5 1 year ago
Seeing this makes the point of how ancient craftsmen were a lot more knowledgeable then we give them the credit for. These were people who put a lot of thought into their work regarding it's usefulness in combat including it's functionability and comfort to the wearer. We often don't think about it in our modern times that they would have made things functionable.
schizoidboy 1 year ago
Heya, you have some really good points. Just wondering, where did you get your mail? I'm trying to find a cheap'ish sleeveless vest for a costume... I use to make bits and peices but I really dont have the time. Cheers!
Johtas1 1 year ago
@Johtas1 I made it. See my web-site for details.
lindybeige 1 year ago
@lindybeige After a few good long attempts at making it, I have admitted defeat, turned tail and fled to ebay. Should be having a nice chain mail shirt similar to yours sometime tomorrow. Your guides were great, I just don't have the patience hehe :P
Johtas1 1 year ago
One more point, I think their method of shield and sword didn't really call for much lifting of the arms above shoulder level, but that's only speculation.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
What I'm saying is that I'm sure the vikings themselves had such hauberks and that's why said records exist.
Though 45 degree seam shirts do look nice in my opinion. I started making mine with the idea of easy to make sleeves and then realized how cumbersome the shirt would be.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
Also, this happens to be the method that most simplifies the addition of sleeves, so I can see why some vikings would have worn hauberks of this type.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
Chainmaille can constrict movements depending on how it's woven. For example, if you're making what's called a 45 degree seam shirt (using trapezoid shaped pieces of maille connected at an angle to hang opposite the maille, which makes it so that when you lift your arms the entire shirt lifts as well, making it IMPOSSIBLE to lift your arms above shoulder level when the maille is belted on.
MetalCatharsis 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis So don't make it that way. Why hamper yourself?
lindybeige 1 year ago
@MetalCatharsis Must be pretty poorly made. I have 45 degree shoulder seams and they don't restrict movement. Yes the whole shirt lifts up when you lift your arms, but only from above the belt if you have sufficient overhang. Point being: it weighs on your shoulders, but doesn't otherwise hinder movement. Plus 45 degree pattern looks infinitely better than barrel and straps.
Tasselhoff88 1 year ago
i was wondering if you could tell me where you got the wire for your rings. i would like to start making it but there arn't too many places that sell much. thanks :)
RoryGarbutt 2 years ago
I went to a factory that made springs.
lindybeige 2 years ago
@lindybeige unfortunatley i don't have a factory near me aha. i've looked around in places like B and Q but i really have difficulty finding any. do you have any other ideas?
RoryGarbutt 2 years ago
I didn't actually visit the factory in person. I used the Royal Mail.
lindybeige 2 years ago
@lindybeige could you tell me the name of the factory so i can do the same please?
RoryGarbutt 2 years ago
AP Springs of Wolverhampton I think it was. It was some years ago. Might have been Birmingham.
lindybeige 2 years ago
Still, I concur with what you've said and I comment that I use the term chainmail all the time myself.
KintarosTiger 2 years ago
Hah, I agree with the whole "mail" thing that Gary Gygex made popular. Though I am an RPG nerd I must agree calling every single armor 'mail' other than chainmail is a bit silly.
KintarosTiger 2 years ago
one question, if i was to have a fairly limited amount of chainmail, ( say enough links for a piece say... 10 inch by 5 inch, for example (though my piece is made out of 3/4 inch keychain rings, tell me based on if it was made of the 6mm rings you have in your burnie, point is if i only had those WHERE, do you think would be the spot id put that piece and itd be of the most use (one idea i had for my current scrap of 'key-chainmail' was to use it on the outside of my arm like a bracer of sorts
elgostine 2 years ago
As a curtain hanging down from the back of your helmet, protecting your neck and lower back of head.
lindybeige 2 years ago
alright then, now i just need to fashion a helmet to attatch it too, but hopefully by then ill have gotten some extra cash to do some proper mail making, ill focus first on a coif, seems to take a smaller amount of links.
elgostine 2 years ago
Or the back of a glove?
lindybeige 2 years ago
luckily ive found an aussie company (annoyingly they aren't centred in my state) called manning imperial that will sell you unconnected links at a rate of, about 10-12 $AU for 1000 rings at sizes btween 8-10 mm and 1 1/2-1 1/4 mm thick spring steel.
now i just need to convince my family exactly why they should help pay to ship 1-3000 pieces of ring shaped wire upstate ;-0 thankfully though it shouldnt be too hard.
elgostine 2 years ago
also, if you lookthem up head to their greek and romen section of armour. they seem to sell a reproduction of the iron cuirass found in the tomb of phillip of macedon. (THAT philip of macedon just incase theres another philip that wasnt a total washout)
elgostine 2 years ago
The tomb, I believe, though commonly referred to as his, is merely assumed to be his from the fact that its date is about right and it is very rich. Yes - Phil the Second, Alex's dad.
lindybeige 2 years ago
in any case its a beautiful piece, though like your mention of the leather cuirass, looks VERY boxy and not very form fitting,
yes, interesting you mention that about the tomb, the main piece of evidence they cite being the supposed skull in the box of remain, which they say when reconstructed shows an inury inone eye, that eye, phillip was noted to have lost to a lead sling bullet. all in all the work by the company, manufactured by them is VERY interesting, if you havent already checked.
elgostine 2 years ago
how many links were in that little patch you showed in the beginning? and what are the dimensions of it?
elgostine 2 years ago
c 2 and a half inches across. 172 links.
lindybeige 2 years ago
I admire your great expertise on this topic. Perhaps you could cover lamellar, scale or lorica segmentata on a future video? These armors don't get much press time but they were widely used by many of the cultures that also used mail, especially the romans and byzantines.
JHanson712 2 years ago
big pin cusions HAHAHAHA!!!! i'm subscribing because of that
GAMESGLORIOUSGAMES 2 years ago
isnt plate armor just attached to your mail? im not very sure how u would attach a chunk of metal plates
lanson0 2 years ago
Some armour had plates with holes around the edge for attaching to mail. the mail would be in between the plates, not behind /under them. With gothic field plate, the knight would have mail patches sewn to his padded leather suit worn under the armour, where the gaps in the plate were.
lindybeige 2 years ago
I posted a response video of the chainmail shirt and vest that I made, the shirt is just my own pattern and the vest is the 4 in 1 pattern. i made them so they were shorter than my clothes so i can wear them underneath my clothes. I might make one more shirt like your one, the only problem is my rings are about 13mm in diameter and i dont have anything for making smaller rings
MetalTala 2 years ago
If it were longer, you could tuck it under your trousers.
lindybeige 2 years ago
good point but it was also due to laziness lol
MetalTala 2 years ago
Your website is absolutely brilliant! Thanks to you I now have got the hang of contractions in mail. Thats a most impressive byrnie you made. It fits very well!
gregarioushand 2 years ago
chainmalle at 14ga 1/4id is rather tight making it rather great for reduceing the space for a stab. The Vikings seem to prefer a mix of solid rings and rivited combined with the arming coat which was an 1in of cotton and fabric. this tended to also reduce the penetration of the incoming stabs. problem weighs 20+ pounds
TheMasaoL 2 years ago
um prove me wrong but i heard that the vikings had chainmail that was almost 1 inch thick .i herd on histery channal
MrBrian987987 2 years ago
From where I'm sitting I cannot 'prove' you wrong, but this seems like rubbish to me. It would weigh a ton, and I've never seen or heard of an example of such armour. Might you have misheard?
lindybeige 2 years ago
i dont think the vikings would where there almost 1 inch chain mail as a full body .they would have patches of chain mail and probably whared some leather armor with it.
MrBrian987987 2 years ago
Possibly the reference is to the total thickness of mail plus the padding worn with it.
lindybeige 2 years ago
I think the history channel may have been referring to the padding BENEATH the chainmail, eg - a gambeson. Chainmail would always be worn with padding some form of padding underneath it, the chainmail protects against slashing and stabbing, the padding protects from blunt trauma.
gregarioushand 2 years ago
you look and sound like robert llewyn. im about half way through making my chainmail shirt, ive done about half of the back and half of the front
MetalTala 2 years ago
That's a first. Normally I get Hugh Laurie. Happy linking.
lindybeige 2 years ago
You are a "very lucky bunny" indeed to be able to handle the museum piece! I'm jealous!
Your byrnie fits beautifully. Thanks for the fun video! I can't believe someone thought Vikings would have to fight with straight arms - anyone who's handled chainmail would know that that is ridiculous.
Glibscribe 2 years ago