I'm an atheist, but I have to say I'm with the caller on this one. The two best students in my school year were both very christian girls. I didnt agree with their beliefs and found one of the girls quite annoying, but their beliefs and the sense of being held accountable for their actions drove them towards being better students and possibly being happier people. That doesnt make their beliefs true, but I can see a benefit of believing something false.
You actually cannot say that. To pretend to a variation, you have to make a comparison with a control model... Tell me, is there anything in that false belief that could not have been otherwise accomplish by something that is true? The answer is no.
But I think Matt is too kind on that issue, it's worst than that. What you describe is literally appealing to an authority by fear of repression or else pursuit of a reward: it belittles their effort, dehumanize their quest.
It means that it wasn't great and it wasn't out of a free impulse to excel for the sake of excellence. It was only because of Big Brother in the sky, out of a pitiful fear, like a slave who tries to please his master so that he may earn what he conceded to not longer be his.
"[...] The man never regards what he possesses as so much his own, as what he does; and the labourer who tends a garden is perhaps in a truer sense its owner, than the listless voluptuary who enjoys its fruits...
In view of this consideration, it seems as if all peasants and craftsman might be elevated into artists; that is, men who love their labour for its own sake, improve it by their own plastic genius and inventive skill, and thereby cultivate their intellect, ennoble their character, and exalt and refine their pleasures. [...] Whatever does not spring from a man’s free choice, or is only the result of instruction and guidance...
does not enter into his very being, but remains alien to his true nature; he does not perform it with truly human energies, but merely with mechanical exactness. […] [Hence], we may admire what he does, but we despise what he is."
--Wilhelm von Humboldt, The Limits of State actions
That's how I would treat those girls: I admire what they did, but I despise what they because they are not free. They surrendered their judgments to someone else and you admire that...
***Is there anything that this false belief enabled them to do that could not have been otherwise accomplished by something that is true?
Religion is mental slavery, that's inexcusable. As the benevolence of masters has proven scarce, which then was brought forward by guidance has now to resort to a freely made choice, but you are only so free as you are informed: we know that ignorance may push you to choose against your own consent.
@KrugmanTheKing Thanks for your reply, but I think you're wrong on several accounts. I dont think their work was belittled and that they had no choice. They chose to work harder and apply themselves more out of a feeling of being held accountable for their actions. That takes nothing away from them or their efforts. The control group (me, the atheist) was as lazy as I could be without failing. I did the bare minimum and graduated with a B- from school
A control group would be one motivated by an other reason -- the thought experiment I proposed you was to see if the motivation ought to be a false belief. Secondly, it's about motivation, not performance: we cannot compare people strictly on the basis of their performance to assume motivation or not. It's the maximization of abilities that we assess and I still maintain the point I made: you could find an equal motivation in truth.
@KrugmanTheKing It's not about "could not" but "would not". The feeling of being held accountable made them adjust their priorities.
I can quote Humboldt too btw ;) :"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or our unhappiness depends far more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves. " If christianity can make you greet things differently, then I do see the benefit. That doesnt make it "right", but I can see the benefit.
And I reiterate the proposition: the intention was to please Big Brother, not to be good. It wasn't out of themselves, but out of fear, out of the apprehension of upcoming reward. Think of a situation wherein someone tries to envision doing a crime and in the wake of performing this task ends up promoting good consequences -- I mean, as a mistake ending up being good -- and the other, intending to help others, ending harming them by mistake. Are you ready to tell me the first is better?
Of course not, he is not the instigator of the consequences; he's almost a victim with regard to what happened! It's better than if it didn't, but it's not a moral act.
And next time, before you give account of thinkers, read them and ensure you that your answer is consistent with their thoughts... The first mistake here being that you speak like a relativist: he was a classical liberal philosopher, do you seriously think he'd mean "do as you feel it"? Of course not.
There's no benefit in submitting yourself to the minister of Truth in fear that you will enter room 101 once you are dead. It means you behave like a 5 years old: you don't do something, not because you can understand it's harmful, but only because daddy might find out...
Christianity is a profoundly immoral dogma and even the sole idea of handing to someone else the care of judging of what is right and what is true for you is immoral. Yes, it does belittle what they did.
@KrugmanTheKing I think we'll have to agree to disagree. The question was not "Is religion more beneficial than harmful", to which I'd answer "No", the question was "Can religion be beneficial at all", to which I reply "Yes, it can". Ultimately, it comes down to the meaning of life. You and I are atheists and we'd rather be right, but I cant help but envy people who are religious, but who are also arguably happier people. Maybe I'm the idiot after all because I'd rather be right?
The very idea that 'just a little bit' of delusion is ok... is a very bad thing. It allows for little things, like the belief in gnomes, bigfoot, and things that will likely not make much of a difference either way... But it also allows for the belief in gods, because that little bit, grows depending on who you talk to. If this little bit is ok, than surely, this slightly bigger bit is fine too... I think I worded that wrong.
Watched this whole sequence (640). Can almost be hopeful that things can improve...the caller admitted his logical fallacies (a rarity among many theists) and conceded points when warranted. I think the seed has been planted. If it was planted in others through watching this...well most who need to watch won't. But maybe some...and things can improve in this country...
This caller is one of my favorites, he at least discusses the topic at hand and concedes logical points. Even if he is defending an illogical belief he at least thinks somewhat logically, there is yet hope for this one.
Imagination can have a calming effect. So long as it is understood as imagined. For instance when I have an anxiety attack it helps if I imagine a water fall. Now there really isnt a water fall around me but it calms me to imagine one. This has theraputic value for me.
But you will have gathered what I am driving at, namely, that it is still a metaphysical faith upon which our faith in science rests--that even we seekers after knowledge today, we godless anti-metaphysicians still take our fire, too, from the flame lit by a faith that is thousands of years old, that Christian faith which was also the faith of Plato, that God is the truth, that truth is divine.--But what if this should become more and more incredible...
Really foolish premise from the guy on the right; not believing in an afterlife in no way, whatoever, neccesarily indicates that you will appreciate this life to a greater degree.
@JeffersonDinedAlone Hmm... it actually does. If you were in a situation where the only way to solve a problem (whatever that problem is) was to kill yourself, you would be much more likely to kill yourself if you knew you had a second life and if you didn't, it's just common sense. The risk of dying gains more weight when you do not believe in an afterlife, therefore increasing the value of life.
@JeffersonDinedAlone I meant "if you knew you had a second life THAN if you didn't..." sorry for the mistake, not sure why I used "and" in the wrong place there.
@JeffersonDinedAlone I think it would. If you didn't believe in an afterlife, and more importantly didn't believe that killing yourself in the act of some belief was going to give you a quick ticket to an eternal afterlife of bliss, you automatically are going to put more value into this one, only life you have, and not resort to either following a charismatic leader into killing yourself, or sacrificing yourself to kill others as part of a larger plan. It absolutely puts more value in life.
@JeffersonDinedAlone If you aren't willing to defend/justify your statements, especially if they involve calling someone else foolish, you might as well not make assertions in the first place.
@skitchmusic But in your obvious confusion it is not physical death that is the focus here. It is whether or not believing in an eternal life would neccesarily mean that you value, or appreciate, this life to a greater degree. I said not neccesarily at all. You disagreed. You were wrong. And I'll tell you why. There are many people with zero religious belief in an afterlife who don't value, or appreciate, this life to any discernable degree, whatsoever. No correlation.
Use your God given intuition: who shows a higher consciousness level? who kills or who respects life?, who steal or who share? who enslave or who frees? who envy or who love? who is selfish or who is selfless? who is materialistic or who is spiritual?. We are due to move to the next consciousness level by rejecting all materialism and selfishness. Those were Jesus teachings, which atheism reject. God will act, and anyone that refuse to move may be expendable. Open your eyes before is too late.
Atheism is turning into a Religion without the belief in God. Atheism is blaming religion for trying to convert people but Atheists are doing the same trying to de-convert people. If you dont want to believe in God you dont have to, but having a show to bash people who do is immoral. If you dont believe that God exists why would you blasphemy?? Which members of the show have done number of times.
@mas03 Okay. One, the show is about helping draw out many atheist who feel that they are being pressured down, and insulted for their lack of belief. Which the bible clearly states in many ways what relgious people should do with people who lack the belief. Second, I wouldn't try to convert others from their beliefs. Mainly because its like talking to a brick wall. Lastly, even for religious people, this show allows them to think about their beliefs, instead of just "blind faith".
@FFXFREAK572 1. The hosts on the show many times have said that they would love for the callers/viewers /callers to become free from Religion because they THINK it would make ones life better. If that was the case than they would only take callers from Atheists to help them feel comfortable, but the shows #1 priority is to deconvert believers hence the reason that they take Theists calls over Atheists. The reason why this show has become popular is because of the Theists callers not Atheists.
@mas03 The show isn't specifically made just to convert Theists. Even though it would be okay if it was because there are religious shows made SPECIFICALLY to convert people. But it's made for Atheist AND Theist. They don't force Theist to call. They call of their own will. It's simply made to help out young Atheist but it's also made to make Theist actually think about their religion and look into it instead of just closing their eyes and saying god. The quickest way to Atheism is knowledge.
@KingWithoutaCause A Religious show is VERY different than this. Having a religious show is NOT to convert people, since God cannot be proven or disproven the religious show is for people of faith, they dont ask the callers to "disprove god". Religious shows are for people who already believe unlike this show, they whole reason why this show is popular as they even said before is because of Christian callers, they ask you to give evidence and when you do they say "god of the gaps" so why ask?
@mas03 1. No it's not. There are many different types of them. What you're saying would be correct if it actual applied to religious people but it doesn't because A. They believe god can be and has been proven. B. They believe god is a fact. 2. You can't ask someone to "disprove god". That's just fucking retarded. The reason they don't have debates is because they are too busy just trying to preach to the person without explanations. 3. To get them to question their own beliefs and THINK.
@mas03 1. No it's not. There are many different types of them. What you're saying would be correct if it actual applied to religious people but it doesn't because A. They believe god can be and has been proven. B. They believe god is a fact. 2. You can't ask someone to "disprove god". That's just fucking retarded. The reason they don't have debates is because they are too busy just trying to preach to the person without explanations. 3. To get them to question their own beliefs and THINK.
@mas03 Atheism is in no way a religion. It's the rejection of every other religion. There is no dogma, no deities, no holy book, and no belief systems. The only thing we have in common is a disbelief in any gods. You do realize there are a THOUSAND shows and a half promoting religion. They "bash" Atheist all the time with much more serious threats. Such as eternal torture, death, and they call as multiple names. But I'm sure you don't care to stop them. Just try to stop the little Atheist show.
Besides morality and religion asis=de don't poeple care enough about their sexuality , not to put thier life , family in jeapardy with tawdry sex with trash. it's just commone sense
I guess everything thing defaults back to recession. These clowns are baseless but trying to make a living. I don't respect this way of making living on the expense of fooling people. All of you need to read history first then religion second
@alienlifeform11 Wait, if that is true then you are still living your first life, since he was condamned to walk the earth forever and never die. So, no "former life" for u! HA! =P
@999Thip Stop watching Fox news. Stop with all caps. Stop with stupidity. Catholisism is a huge segment of Christianity. Why are you so stupid that you think a Catholic is not a Christian?
@999Thip And who must have created those desires? And your god has killed more people than homosexuals. And he created HIV/AIDS. I hope you can free yourself.
since I don't believe your invisible bullshit is real, I will think whatever I like. At least I don't spend my entire life afraid of an imaginary place like hell... sad that you waste the one life you are going to get on this shit.
@999Thip Because you have succumbed to emotional blackmail and are willing to believe unsubstantiated claims as a result, do not expect others to do the same. We're on to you. The emperor has no clothes.
@999Thip Jesus was a radical, socialist, liberal-minded rabble rouser, so if your mischaracterizations make it easier for you to deny the truth, have at it. I happen to be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative as far as smaller gov't and responsible spending go. You tea party freaks/conservatives insist on pigeon-holing people because you're too simple to handle nuance or truth for that matter. And the gospel writers never met Jesus. Do some research other than the buy bull.
@999Thip You support the tea-party I have had an on going debate with you, you who broadcasts hate speech, stupidity, xenophobia and barefaced lies to the people of youtube everyday..think before you type you deluded nut
@999Thip I never said I was liberal just more assumptions from a religious nut like you again you have no proof at all of me ever mentioning I was liberal XD is that another false belief thip?
@999Thip No. Originally I would say it was written by a story teller who wanted to compile a book about the teachings of another story teller to which at that point the stories would have been hundreds of years old and gone through many adapations and was probably made up (as how stories were told back then). Someone compiled a book, called it religion and now we have had a thousend years of bullshit compiled into a book.
@999Thip Wasn't attacking your grammar, I genuinely thought you were from a non-English speaking country. I'm not a liberal. I love how you change the topic to politics...
@999Thip Yes, I thought your English was not great because you weren't from an English-speaking country. Fucking hell. Go read your Bible, apologise to your fairytale character then cry yourself to sleep because you're scared to get laid because you think you'll go to hell.
@999Thip "Faith" is a misnomer. Faith: 1) Fear-inspired willful ignorance. 2) Emotional attachment to belief without evidence or in the face of evidence to the contrary. "Faith" is gullibility and wishful thinking and is not something to be automatically lauded. More and more people are realizing this and it is becoming more and more acceptable to publicly criticize it. “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
@999Thip You are a moron. Why? You said, "fascist liberal homosexuals". Liberals are left wing and fascists are right wing. Seems like you should get your face out of your idiot bible and maybe pick up a damn dictionary.
Also, all the clams you make about the world having "woes", the majority of all the messed up shit in the world has always been caused by the neo-fascist, religious, assholes like you. YOU are part of the problem, and you fake-ass god is never going to be a solution.
@HeresASeatHD the 666 is pretty funny but so is the fact that you think agnosticism is the only logical and open-minded path. I used to be an agnostic but have graduated to atheism through logic. Agnosticism is the little brother to atheism and definately can be a gateway for any religious person with any doubt at all. Don't forget that atheists aren't making any actual claim because of the lack of evidence so logically it passes the test. Agnostics just need to get one last toe over the fence.
I understand what you are saying, but honestly I like to be open to ideas. Whilst I despise the idea of organised religion, and am in no way attempting to interpret the absolute, I think faith is a very strong thing to have. Did Jesus Christ wish for a multi-billion dollar organisation to be set up in his name? Of course not, but I think through faith in something, regardless of what it is, you can become a much happier person.
You're right, hence the saying "ignorance is bliss" drugs are bliss to. I don't think you truly understand atheism because you say that you aren't one because you like to be open to ideas. Unlike religious people, atheists are open to a universe of possibilities because they don't make any claims. The definition of atheism is the lack of belief in a deity. Once you make a blind claim you automatically shut-off part of your brain. atheists are unwilling to do this because it doesnt lead to truth.
@ilikelazers i have confirmation on some things dude. i know telepathy exists. i've done it sober and more heavily during trips. ive seen quite a lot that i cant really throw off as coincedence anymore. i question everything i encounter, until i get to the bottom of it and have no reason to lie. i think out of anyone, the native americans and their beliefs are closest to the truth then everything else i've seen.
wait... what? evidence for this claim please. saying you experienced it on a trip doesn't qualify as our minds are bad enough at being tricked while sober never mind when we're on mescaline or mushrooms.
i can see that you BELIEVE it and i'm not calling you a liar but you're not questioning it because you experienced it, not knowing that our minds are easily tricked. apply your critical mind to your own experiences.
@renzokata "i think out of anyone, the native americans and their beliefs are closest to the truth then everything else i've seen."
unless you have a deep understanding of exactly what reality actually is you have nothing to compare what native americans believe to. they might have opened the doors of perception by taking peyote but it doesn't mean they weren't hallucinating.
nobody in this day and age has a deep understanding of exactly what reality actually is.
@Rabsputin nah dude. i do. reality is a oneness. the illusion is that you and me are sitting miles apart arguing about what it is. trust me, when you trip on peyote, you can integrate whats going on just fine, it doesn't make you stupid and it's not just a hullicination. i'm willing to bet you've never taken peyote once in your life to know ANYTHING about it. the actuality is that RIGHT NOW this is useless.
@renzokata no, you don't have a deep understanding of exactly what reality actually is, you only think you do because you've taken a substance which has altered your perception by adjusting the chemicals in your brain and made you think you know more than you actually do. it all happened inside your head, in the same way that stupid religious people think "god" is talking to them.
reality is so far beyond our current understanding it's scary, we only ever see the tip of the iceberg.
@Rabsputin is that your conclusion doctor?? lmfao. you dont know me. you don't know shit, and if you weren't so goddamn cynical, you might just have had a chance in hell at seeing it. because i wonder WHAT IN THE FUCK you think it is, can you even answer that?
@renzokata if quantum physicists are discovering things about the nature of reality that we've never even dreamed of using science i find it EXTREMELY hard to believe you discovered the same thing while high on mesc.
the true nature of reality is so far outside what we experience in the narrow view our senses give us it's mind boggling and we're nowhere near having a full understanding of it.
claiming that you fully understand reality is both arrogant AND ignorant.
@renzokata and compared with understanding reality you've seen nothing.
i don't care what you've seen, what i do care about is that you understand it wasn't an insight into how the universe works regardless what you think you "know". you sound like those nutters who think they were abducted by UFOs.
@Rabsputin you sound like one of those cynical pricks that thinks hes gonna put it down on me but you got another thing commin'. i don't give a FUCK what you think either. people like you existed in large numbers during the dark ages, when shit went nowhere. you fucking piece of shit.
it's thanks to people like me the dark ages are over, but it was science which got us out of it, not gettin out of our heads on whatever was growin in the woods.
sure takin hallucinogenics are great for increasing creativity, but the trips we take on them are totally unreliable from the scientific perspective. they might show YOU something which might or might not be real, but the chances of someone else getting the same trip are practically zero.
@Rabsputin you know i use that same line to argue with people who are retarded so save it. you dont know anything about what i'm trying to express. to you it's a bunch of new age mumbo jumbo. your scientific beliefs answer little questions about bigger issues. it leaves us all in the dark, just like you are. i'm NOT one of these christian idiots. dont judge me because i know a little about something you have no clue over. btw, why in the hell do you name yourself after Rasputin?
@renzokata do you honestly think that scientific discovery leaves us all in the dark? seriously? the thing which got us OUT of the dark ages in the first place?
do you honestly believe that taking mind altering substances gives you a real and true representation of reality? what do you have to compare it with other than the tiny slice our senses give us the rest of the time?
my name is rab, i have long hair and a beard, i was given the nickname and it stuck.
@renzokata for the record, i have absolutely no problem with people taking any kind of drug with the exception of heroin, i just don't see it as a way of giving us a real and true grasp of reality, something which scientists are working very hard on achieving.
were you aware that all the things we thought were solid are almost entirely made up of empty space? this is what we've found by studying the atom, all of it's component parts are (relatively) very far away from each other.
@ilikelazers yeah and you can suck my dick. hallucinagens happen to be NON-ADDICTIVE so why dont you take your retarded comment and shove it up your ass?
@renzokata hahahhahahahahaha now im getting yelled at by a drug addict. you really believe that taking drugs makes you see things more clearly? all that proves is that you're so deep into drug use that it has become your reality. here's some advice, only talk to people that are taking drugs with you because then you can live in your alternate reality without the chance of sounding like a crazy person
@ilikelazers yeah i do, take me and take you for instance. i have taken hallucinagens several times and i am looking at this in a mature and logical viewpoint, i'm being real with YOU. all you're doing is making derogatory comments and trying to attack me. youre a dick. why you are is for reasons of your own but i can be one too, and when people like you try and FUCK WITH ME, i can be really fucking nasty. so if i sound FUCKING CRAZY to you, then why dont you LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE.
@HeresASeatHD Arrogant of you. Agnosticism doesn't exist there agnostic theism and atheism there gnosic theism and atheism. If you believe in a god but arnt sure there is one you are an agnostic theist if you believe there is no god but you arnt sure then your an agnostic atheist. Gnostic means purely one sided or the pure belief that there must be a god or there can't be a god. If your neutral then you can be known as a deist. People who believe in a god but not any known one is a deist.
@HeresASeatHD what exactly is not believing a ridiculous claim ignorant of?
i could claim that the universe in it's entirely sits snuggly inside the anus of an unimaginably huge pink unicorn eating a never ending bagel. would your not believing my claim make you ignorant?
@MetalSiicken How about those little kids that are sent to jesus camp and they literaly cry their eyes out for forgivness ?
Those 10 year olds go to sleep every single night beliveing that in their afterlife they will go to hell and suffer for eternity. How does that make them happy ?
This is a link to the video I'm talking about : watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac
And when you say you need to have your internal world view consistent with reality, you are assuming that reality is defined as not including an after life, but that is an un known, not a reality. Of course, you can do the best you can do here, and assume this is it, and that won't hurt you if there's an after life. If there is an after life and you do the best you can here, you will be farther down the pike in the spirit world. So...I'm not disagreeing with you on this.
@rovingdesertfox Whether it's a comforting thought or not, it doesn't diminish the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. You're postulating some infinite imaginary afterlife that means nothing to anybody else. Your imaginary world is simply yours. If you think it's real, fair enough, but there's no reason you could devise to think that you're right.
@alphaenemy When you say I don't know what I'm talking about, that would assume that you do. So where are you positioned in this wonderful universe to know that what I have said is untrue?
If there is an after life, it does not cheapen this life. Just like going from 1st to 2nd grade was a building process, so too will I progress from this life to the spirit world.
If this is the only life, I do not need to get things right, because when I'm dead, it's done, no matter what I did.
@rovingdesertfox Or it could be exactly the opposite. The spirit world might be really shitty. You don't know that it won't, either, and to assume you do is dishonest.
@alphaenemy What a nice thought to think that we actually degrade the more we try to progress. Is that what you are saying? If the design is set up that we, we're all fucked beyond belief. I meant to include that the afterlife would provide for progress the more we actually tried to do so. Give me a guess here: It could be that, based on our life here we are placed in a condition in the afterlife and have a chance to progess from there.
@alphaenemy What a nice thought to think that we actually degrade the more we try to progress. Is that what you are saying? If the design is set up that we, we're all fucked beyond belief. I meant to include that the afterlife would provide for progress the more we actually tried to do so. Give me a guess here: It could be that, based on our life here we are placed in a condition in the afterlife and have a chance to progress from there.
@rovingdesertfox "...when I'm dead, it's done..." That's what we call sociopathy. We mostly put that on the "don'ts" list.
It's little moments like this that ensure that non-theists don't even have to answer theists' "moral arguments". We merely need to let y'all keep talking until it becomes clear what your views on morality are, then simply say "QED".
Morals: mostly pretty easy, unless you're crippled by religion.
The fact that a believer is happier because there is an afterlife is no different that a drunk person is happier than a sober person. It's still an attempt to escape from reality.
A good example of the dangers of devout believers of an afterlife can be found by looking at the methods of suicide bombers. Or even George Bush. Would a president who didn't believe in a afterlife be so willing to send soldiers to their deaths in senseless wars?
@a7xdude87 Agree with much of your post, I carry no water for the GOP (I'm Independent) That said, would you assert Obama continues on with WAR and senseless deaths due to his belief in an afterlife? We need make as much effort to think and avoid buying into political dogma as we do theological BS. IMHO - Policy is for sale in this country, we have "Republicrats" loyal to those funding their campaigns, and that leaves us out. Watch what they do, ignore what they say. Regards
Good job planting those precious seeds of doubt guys... ;)
yuothineyesasian 3 weeks ago
Brilliant....again!
55chh 1 month ago
I'm an atheist, but I have to say I'm with the caller on this one. The two best students in my school year were both very christian girls. I didnt agree with their beliefs and found one of the girls quite annoying, but their beliefs and the sense of being held accountable for their actions drove them towards being better students and possibly being happier people. That doesnt make their beliefs true, but I can see a benefit of believing something false.
k0nn0r 2 months ago
@k0nn0r
You actually cannot say that. To pretend to a variation, you have to make a comparison with a control model... Tell me, is there anything in that false belief that could not have been otherwise accomplish by something that is true? The answer is no.
But I think Matt is too kind on that issue, it's worst than that. What you describe is literally appealing to an authority by fear of repression or else pursuit of a reward: it belittles their effort, dehumanize their quest.
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
It means that it wasn't great and it wasn't out of a free impulse to excel for the sake of excellence. It was only because of Big Brother in the sky, out of a pitiful fear, like a slave who tries to please his master so that he may earn what he conceded to not longer be his.
"[...] The man never regards what he possesses as so much his own, as what he does; and the labourer who tends a garden is perhaps in a truer sense its owner, than the listless voluptuary who enjoys its fruits...
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
In view of this consideration, it seems as if all peasants and craftsman might be elevated into artists; that is, men who love their labour for its own sake, improve it by their own plastic genius and inventive skill, and thereby cultivate their intellect, ennoble their character, and exalt and refine their pleasures. [...] Whatever does not spring from a man’s free choice, or is only the result of instruction and guidance...
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
does not enter into his very being, but remains alien to his true nature; he does not perform it with truly human energies, but merely with mechanical exactness. […] [Hence], we may admire what he does, but we despise what he is."
--Wilhelm von Humboldt, The Limits of State actions
That's how I would treat those girls: I admire what they did, but I despise what they because they are not free. They surrendered their judgments to someone else and you admire that...
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
I just realized the question didn't make sense.
***Is there anything that this false belief enabled them to do that could not have been otherwise accomplished by something that is true?
Religion is mental slavery, that's inexcusable. As the benevolence of masters has proven scarce, which then was brought forward by guidance has now to resort to a freely made choice, but you are only so free as you are informed: we know that ignorance may push you to choose against your own consent.
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@KrugmanTheKing Thanks for your reply, but I think you're wrong on several accounts. I dont think their work was belittled and that they had no choice. They chose to work harder and apply themselves more out of a feeling of being held accountable for their actions. That takes nothing away from them or their efforts. The control group (me, the atheist) was as lazy as I could be without failing. I did the bare minimum and graduated with a B- from school
k0nn0r 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
A control group would be one motivated by an other reason -- the thought experiment I proposed you was to see if the motivation ought to be a false belief. Secondly, it's about motivation, not performance: we cannot compare people strictly on the basis of their performance to assume motivation or not. It's the maximization of abilities that we assess and I still maintain the point I made: you could find an equal motivation in truth.
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@KrugmanTheKing It's not about "could not" but "would not". The feeling of being held accountable made them adjust their priorities.
I can quote Humboldt too btw ;) :"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or our unhappiness depends far more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves. " If christianity can make you greet things differently, then I do see the benefit. That doesnt make it "right", but I can see the benefit.
k0nn0r 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
And I reiterate the proposition: the intention was to please Big Brother, not to be good. It wasn't out of themselves, but out of fear, out of the apprehension of upcoming reward. Think of a situation wherein someone tries to envision doing a crime and in the wake of performing this task ends up promoting good consequences -- I mean, as a mistake ending up being good -- and the other, intending to help others, ending harming them by mistake. Are you ready to tell me the first is better?
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
Of course not, he is not the instigator of the consequences; he's almost a victim with regard to what happened! It's better than if it didn't, but it's not a moral act.
And next time, before you give account of thinkers, read them and ensure you that your answer is consistent with their thoughts... The first mistake here being that you speak like a relativist: he was a classical liberal philosopher, do you seriously think he'd mean "do as you feel it"? Of course not.
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@k0nn0r
There's no benefit in submitting yourself to the minister of Truth in fear that you will enter room 101 once you are dead. It means you behave like a 5 years old: you don't do something, not because you can understand it's harmful, but only because daddy might find out...
Christianity is a profoundly immoral dogma and even the sole idea of handing to someone else the care of judging of what is right and what is true for you is immoral. Yes, it does belittle what they did.
KrugmanTheKing 1 month ago
@KrugmanTheKing I think we'll have to agree to disagree. The question was not "Is religion more beneficial than harmful", to which I'd answer "No", the question was "Can religion be beneficial at all", to which I reply "Yes, it can". Ultimately, it comes down to the meaning of life. You and I are atheists and we'd rather be right, but I cant help but envy people who are religious, but who are also arguably happier people. Maybe I'm the idiot after all because I'd rather be right?
k0nn0r 1 month ago
The very idea that 'just a little bit' of delusion is ok... is a very bad thing. It allows for little things, like the belief in gnomes, bigfoot, and things that will likely not make much of a difference either way... But it also allows for the belief in gods, because that little bit, grows depending on who you talk to. If this little bit is ok, than surely, this slightly bigger bit is fine too... I think I worded that wrong.
skywize 2 months ago
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endallreligions.blogspot.com
paularenas26 2 months ago
Let’s put an end to all religion.
paularenas26 2 months ago
Watched this whole sequence (640). Can almost be hopeful that things can improve...the caller admitted his logical fallacies (a rarity among many theists) and conceded points when warranted. I think the seed has been planted. If it was planted in others through watching this...well most who need to watch won't. But maybe some...and things can improve in this country...
DrWoodwind5 2 months ago
What the actual fuck. This caller is like Cypher from The Matrix.
BJ219 3 months ago
This caller is one of my favorites, he at least discusses the topic at hand and concedes logical points. Even if he is defending an illogical belief he at least thinks somewhat logically, there is yet hope for this one.
RethysTarrent 3 months ago
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lauram36 4 months ago
Dillahunty is God. There, I solved Ryan's problem. MOVING ON....
lauram36 4 months ago
Imagination can have a calming effect. So long as it is understood as imagined. For instance when I have an anxiety attack it helps if I imagine a water fall. Now there really isnt a water fall around me but it calms me to imagine one. This has theraputic value for me.
cynt123able 4 months ago
Very good program. When I first questioned religion at age 12, I concluded that truth was best and that knowing truth was enlightening.
mentalphysicalism 5 months ago 5
"ignorance is bless", and that is exactly how creationists roll.
OhReallyNoWai 5 months ago 7
@OhReallyNoWai
But you will have gathered what I am driving at, namely, that it is still a metaphysical faith upon which our faith in science rests--that even we seekers after knowledge today, we godless anti-metaphysicians still take our fire, too, from the flame lit by a faith that is thousands of years old, that Christian faith which was also the faith of Plato, that God is the truth, that truth is divine.--But what if this should become more and more incredible...
lauram36 4 months ago
Really foolish premise from the guy on the right; not believing in an afterlife in no way, whatoever, neccesarily indicates that you will appreciate this life to a greater degree.
JeffersonDinedAlone 5 months ago
@JeffersonDinedAlone Hmm... it actually does. If you were in a situation where the only way to solve a problem (whatever that problem is) was to kill yourself, you would be much more likely to kill yourself if you knew you had a second life and if you didn't, it's just common sense. The risk of dying gains more weight when you do not believe in an afterlife, therefore increasing the value of life.
justatallguy 5 months ago
@JeffersonDinedAlone I meant "if you knew you had a second life THAN if you didn't..." sorry for the mistake, not sure why I used "and" in the wrong place there.
justatallguy 5 months ago
@JeffersonDinedAlone I think it would. If you didn't believe in an afterlife, and more importantly didn't believe that killing yourself in the act of some belief was going to give you a quick ticket to an eternal afterlife of bliss, you automatically are going to put more value into this one, only life you have, and not resort to either following a charismatic leader into killing yourself, or sacrificing yourself to kill others as part of a larger plan. It absolutely puts more value in life.
skitchmusic 2 months ago
@skitchmusic Suit yourself. I repeat, I say it does not.
JeffersonDinedAlone 2 months ago
@JeffersonDinedAlone If you aren't willing to defend/justify your statements, especially if they involve calling someone else foolish, you might as well not make assertions in the first place.
skitchmusic 2 months ago
@skitchmusic And yet, I do. A conundrum.
JeffersonDinedAlone 2 months ago
@JeffersonDinedAlone That's okay. You can live with being wrong.
skitchmusic 2 months ago
@skitchmusic And you can die with it.
JeffersonDinedAlone 2 months ago
@JeffersonDinedAlone That doesn't work as a comeback when you are going to die as well.
skitchmusic 2 months ago
@skitchmusic But in your obvious confusion it is not physical death that is the focus here. It is whether or not believing in an eternal life would neccesarily mean that you value, or appreciate, this life to a greater degree. I said not neccesarily at all. You disagreed. You were wrong. And I'll tell you why. There are many people with zero religious belief in an afterlife who don't value, or appreciate, this life to any discernable degree, whatsoever. No correlation.
JeffersonDinedAlone 1 month ago
Very well said.
Strictlypointless 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Use your God given intuition: who shows a higher consciousness level? who kills or who respects life?, who steal or who share? who enslave or who frees? who envy or who love? who is selfish or who is selfless? who is materialistic or who is spiritual?. We are due to move to the next consciousness level by rejecting all materialism and selfishness. Those were Jesus teachings, which atheism reject. God will act, and anyone that refuse to move may be expendable. Open your eyes before is too late.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
Atheism is turning into a Religion without the belief in God. Atheism is blaming religion for trying to convert people but Atheists are doing the same trying to de-convert people. If you dont want to believe in God you dont have to, but having a show to bash people who do is immoral. If you dont believe that God exists why would you blasphemy?? Which members of the show have done number of times.
mas03 5 months ago
@mas03 Okay. One, the show is about helping draw out many atheist who feel that they are being pressured down, and insulted for their lack of belief. Which the bible clearly states in many ways what relgious people should do with people who lack the belief. Second, I wouldn't try to convert others from their beliefs. Mainly because its like talking to a brick wall. Lastly, even for religious people, this show allows them to think about their beliefs, instead of just "blind faith".
FFXFREAK572 5 months ago
@FFXFREAK572 1. The hosts on the show many times have said that they would love for the callers/viewers /callers to become free from Religion because they THINK it would make ones life better. If that was the case than they would only take callers from Atheists to help them feel comfortable, but the shows #1 priority is to deconvert believers hence the reason that they take Theists calls over Atheists. The reason why this show has become popular is because of the Theists callers not Atheists.
mas03 5 months ago
@mas03 The show isn't specifically made just to convert Theists. Even though it would be okay if it was because there are religious shows made SPECIFICALLY to convert people. But it's made for Atheist AND Theist. They don't force Theist to call. They call of their own will. It's simply made to help out young Atheist but it's also made to make Theist actually think about their religion and look into it instead of just closing their eyes and saying god. The quickest way to Atheism is knowledge.
KingWithoutaCause 5 months ago
@KingWithoutaCause A Religious show is VERY different than this. Having a religious show is NOT to convert people, since God cannot be proven or disproven the religious show is for people of faith, they dont ask the callers to "disprove god". Religious shows are for people who already believe unlike this show, they whole reason why this show is popular as they even said before is because of Christian callers, they ask you to give evidence and when you do they say "god of the gaps" so why ask?
mas03 5 months ago
@mas03 1. No it's not. There are many different types of them. What you're saying would be correct if it actual applied to religious people but it doesn't because A. They believe god can be and has been proven. B. They believe god is a fact. 2. You can't ask someone to "disprove god". That's just fucking retarded. The reason they don't have debates is because they are too busy just trying to preach to the person without explanations. 3. To get them to question their own beliefs and THINK.
KingWithoutaCause 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mas03 1. No it's not. There are many different types of them. What you're saying would be correct if it actual applied to religious people but it doesn't because A. They believe god can be and has been proven. B. They believe god is a fact. 2. You can't ask someone to "disprove god". That's just fucking retarded. The reason they don't have debates is because they are too busy just trying to preach to the person without explanations. 3. To get them to question their own beliefs and THINK.
KingWithoutaCause 5 months ago
@mas03 Atheism is in no way a religion. It's the rejection of every other religion. There is no dogma, no deities, no holy book, and no belief systems. The only thing we have in common is a disbelief in any gods. You do realize there are a THOUSAND shows and a half promoting religion. They "bash" Atheist all the time with much more serious threats. Such as eternal torture, death, and they call as multiple names. But I'm sure you don't care to stop them. Just try to stop the little Atheist show.
KingWithoutaCause 5 months ago
Besides morality and religion asis=de don't poeple care enough about their sexuality , not to put thier life , family in jeapardy with tawdry sex with trash. it's just commone sense
casablanca4381 5 months ago
999thip moraliity put aside , people run the risk of disease infertility and death by going out an d getting laid by anyone.
casablanca4381 5 months ago
wooow i was expecting way more dislikes, i am pleasently surprised :)
haveahorst 6 months ago
I guess everything thing defaults back to recession. These clowns are baseless but trying to make a living. I don't respect this way of making living on the expense of fooling people. All of you need to read history first then religion second
Munzer1977 7 months ago
In a former life I was the Roman that speared Jesus....good times, good times.
alienlifeform11 7 months ago 33
@alienlifeform11
In a former life I was Jesus.... it's cool - I forgive you.
Callirgos1 4 months ago
@alienlifeform11 Wait, if that is true then you are still living your first life, since he was condamned to walk the earth forever and never die. So, no "former life" for u! HA! =P
o_o * hides*
Moreba 3 months ago
@999Thip Stop watching Fox news. Stop with all caps. Stop with stupidity. Catholisism is a huge segment of Christianity. Why are you so stupid that you think a Catholic is not a Christian?
MegaMash77 7 months ago
@MegaMash77 its clear you have no idea what a true christian is.
its sad you are going through life with your eyes wide open-
but have no knowledge of the truth..
i was a catholic for 33 yrs, but never knew how a person was saved.
now im a christian, and far from the catholic lies.
only jesus can save a person from their sins.
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip Alright! I'm calling it. You're a troll. I won't feed you.
MegaMash77 7 months ago
@MegaMash77 wisdom rest in the heart of one who has understanding,
but in the heart of fools, it is made known.
999Thip 7 months ago
wake up america.
look at the woes thats happening in america now,
floods, the huge heat wave.
fires, the killing of babies at will.
fascist liberal homosexuals walking with their fist held high,
repent , repent repent
seek jesus while you can
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip Floods are caused by God, so it's his fault. Same with fires.
If God cared about the babies he'd save them.
Homosexuals don't hurt anyone, and if they do it is not BECAUSE they are homosexual. Same with atheism.
Repent to who? A God who caused the problem in the first place? Your god is an immoral prick.
RSVJosephV 7 months ago
@RSVJosephV homosexuals because of their sin have killed millions of people.
through HIV/AIDS.
BECAUSE OF THEIR SIN, THEIR PERVERTED HOMOSEXUAL DESIRES, THEY CAUSED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HARM, AND DEATH.
GOD DID NOT DO THIS, MAN AND HIS SIN DID.. SO STOP WITH THE LIBERAL LIES.
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip And who must have created those desires? And your god has killed more people than homosexuals. And he created HIV/AIDS. I hope you can free yourself.
RSVJosephV 7 months ago
@RSVJosephV GOD IS NOT EVIL, BUT JUST.
THE DEVIL PUTS EVIL DESIRES IN OUR THOUGHTS. IT IS UP TO US TO ACT ON THE DESIRE OR REJECT IT.
ITS CLEAR HOMOSEXUALS ACT ON THE DESIRE FROM THEIR HEART..
THE THOUGHT HAD ENTERED MY MIND, BUT I DONT ACT UPON IT.
YOU MUST TAKE RESPONABILTY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS, AND QUITE BLAMING GOD
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip God is just? I thought he was merciful.
God must have created the devil.
Our hearts aren't conscious, they pump blood.
If you want to have sex with another bloke, go for it.
I don't blame God, he doesn't exist.
RSVJosephV 7 months ago
@RSVJosephV you are correct in saying god is merciful.
but he is also just.
and you are correct in saying god created the devil, but the devil sinned againts god and was cast out of heaven.
im glad we can study gods word together.
god bless you brother
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip Mercy is a suspension of justice. It's like being fair and being biased.
God is all-knowing, so he created the devil knowing the consequences. It's all on him.
RSVJosephV 7 months ago
@RSVJosephV gods ways are not the ways of man.
therefore, i do not expect you to understand,
people in the flesh surly do not understand the things of the sprit.
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip Not according to every bishop/priest/vicar/pope who has ever lived.
RSVJosephV 7 months ago
@RSVJosephV IM TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIANS, NOT CATHOLICS.
MANY SAY THEY ARE OF GOD, BUT THEY ARE NOT.
THE ROAD TO HEAVEN IS NARROW. BUT THE ROAD TO HELL IS FAR AND WIDE.
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip Catholics are Christians. Vicars/bishops aren't Catholic. And by the sounds of it, God wants you to go to hell. What a dick.
Also, any actual evidence of any of this being true?
RSVJosephV 7 months ago
@RSVJosephV THATS LIKE SAYING MUSLIMS ARE CHRISTIANS,
CATHOLICS ARE CATHOLICS,
CHRISTIANS ARE KNOWN BY THEIR WALK IN LIFE. THEIR LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER.
IF YOU ASK A CATHOLIC IF THEY ARE CATHOLIC , THEY WILL TELL YOU YES.
I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION, STOP WITH THE SECULAR NEWS STATIONS.
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip
"but he is also just."
And hes imaginary!
aegisgfx 7 months ago
@aegisgfx keep thinking that,
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip
since I don't believe your invisible bullshit is real, I will think whatever I like. At least I don't spend my entire life afraid of an imaginary place like hell... sad that you waste the one life you are going to get on this shit.
aegisgfx 7 months ago
@aegisgfx we are like a flower thats here to day and gone tomorrow.-
a passing shadow- a wave tossed in the ocean.
our lives are so short, tomorrow is not promiced to anyone.. i wonder what will be your thoughts durning your last moments of your life.
fear ? not knowing what will happen next.
999Thip 7 months ago
@999Thip Because you have succumbed to emotional blackmail and are willing to believe unsubstantiated claims as a result, do not expect others to do the same. We're on to you. The emperor has no clothes.
richwfd2002 6 months ago
@richwfd2002 sounds like liberal dribble bro..
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip Jesus was a radical, socialist, liberal-minded rabble rouser, so if your mischaracterizations make it easier for you to deny the truth, have at it. I happen to be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative as far as smaller gov't and responsible spending go. You tea party freaks/conservatives insist on pigeon-holing people because you're too simple to handle nuance or truth for that matter. And the gospel writers never met Jesus. Do some research other than the buy bull.
richwfd2002 6 months ago
@999Thip
SPEAKING LOUD MAKES MY BULLSHIT IMAGINARY FRIEND MORE REAL TO ME!!! lolz christians are fucking idiots. Especially this guy.
aegisgfx 7 months ago
@RSVJosephV oh yee of little knowledge, how much longer will god have mercy on you.-
do you not understand that god holds your next breath.,
you are one heartbeat away before everlasting punishment...
why do you curse the very god that gave you life.,
i pray jesus has mercy on your soul.
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip You support the tea-party I have had an on going debate with you, you who broadcasts hate speech, stupidity, xenophobia and barefaced lies to the people of youtube everyday..think before you type you deluded nut
blazerrips91 6 months ago
@blazerrips91 i love liberals who call people these names,
it proves they have nothen to their point., not to mention any evidence.
tea party patriots want less goverment, lower taxes, and for our leaders to be responable spending our money.-
were is the hate there son..
i think its time to grow up., son
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip I never said I was liberal just more assumptions from a religious nut like you again you have no proof at all of me ever mentioning I was liberal XD is that another false belief thip?
blazerrips91 6 months ago
@999Thip Why doesn't he show himself?
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV why dont you ask him,
why do you ask me these things,
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip I've tried asking him and he didn't reply, so I'm asking you why he isn't as you seem to know everything about him.
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV you see, i ask him in faith, and read his word.
the bible..
and i receive my answers , everyone of them..
if you try this, you surly understand..
if not, you shall be walking in darkness ..
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip The bible isnt the word of God however. It was written by humans.
katharis90 6 months ago
@katharis90 hmmm, humans inspired by god, you are correct bro
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip No. Originally I would say it was written by a story teller who wanted to compile a book about the teachings of another story teller to which at that point the stories would have been hundreds of years old and gone through many adapations and was probably made up (as how stories were told back then). Someone compiled a book, called it religion and now we have had a thousend years of bullshit compiled into a book.
katharis90 6 months ago
@katharis90 well done , i bet you spent all day with that one..
go ahead and run with that one., the day of judgment is not to far off, as i can see with these world events.
that the next event will be the rapture of the church, this is when saved people fanish,
and the antichrist will take control over the one world goverment...
any moment , tic toc
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip I read the Bible, my conclusion was cool story bro.
Your god never answers anyone. He never answers prayers. He doesn't exist.
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV you say you read the bible, what story is cool??
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip The whole thing.
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV what book was cool?
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip The Bible.
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV thank you, you just proved you never read any of the books in the bible..
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip I've read the entire book cover to cover multiple times. You need to work on what you take to be proof.
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV how old was the savior when he started
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip When he started what?
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV thats what i figured...
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip Your English isn't great, nevermind.
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV like a typical liberal, attack my grammer while getting off topic..
why cant liberals ever stay on topic and take responabilty.-
obummer is know for this,3 ys in office and everything is always someones eleses fault..
thank god for the tea party,
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip Wasn't attacking your grammar, I genuinely thought you were from a non-English speaking country. I'm not a liberal. I love how you change the topic to politics...
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV hmmmm was it not you who wrote 23 hrs ago that my english was not great.-
hmmm, i thought so,
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip Yes, I thought your English was not great because you weren't from an English-speaking country. Fucking hell. Go read your Bible, apologise to your fairytale character then cry yourself to sleep because you're scared to get laid because you think you'll go to hell.
Lol.
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
@RSVJosephV sex between man and wife is normal..
so there is no guilt.
when i was single and had sex with all types of women, i had guilt.
sex between same gender is a sin, and is a abomanation to the lord..
so now you have the truth,
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip Why did God create homosexuality then?
RSVJosephV 6 months ago
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@RSVJosephV what makes you think god created homosexuality ?
999Thip 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
999Thip asked, "what makes you think god created homosexuality ?"
Uh...Because God created EVERYTHING?
cmdrkoenig67 4 months ago
@999Thip "Faith" is a misnomer. Faith: 1) Fear-inspired willful ignorance. 2) Emotional attachment to belief without evidence or in the face of evidence to the contrary. "Faith" is gullibility and wishful thinking and is not something to be automatically lauded. More and more people are realizing this and it is becoming more and more acceptable to publicly criticize it. “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
richwfd2002 6 months ago
@richwfd2002 this is true that we are in the last days, the rapture of gods people will happen at any moment,
be advise that the sprit will be lifted off the face of the earth, this means the devil will have free range on all huimans.
the antichrist will form a one world goverment, and force all to take a mark, so they can buy and see their goods.
it will not be a good time to be alive and walking the earth, many will die of fear alone..
999Thip 6 months ago
@999Thip You are a moron. Why? You said, "fascist liberal homosexuals". Liberals are left wing and fascists are right wing. Seems like you should get your face out of your idiot bible and maybe pick up a damn dictionary.
Also, all the clams you make about the world having "woes", the majority of all the messed up shit in the world has always been caused by the neo-fascist, religious, assholes like you. YOU are part of the problem, and you fake-ass god is never going to be a solution.
baphxiii 7 months ago
@baphxiii no matter what you or anyone says, you will stand before the living god, and give an account for their deeds.
and its clear you have no idea what fascist means..
999Thip 7 months ago
That caller seemed much more sane than the other callers. Lol.
Matrix803 7 months ago
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HeresASeatHD 8 months ago
@HeresASeatHD the 666 is pretty funny but so is the fact that you think agnosticism is the only logical and open-minded path. I used to be an agnostic but have graduated to atheism through logic. Agnosticism is the little brother to atheism and definately can be a gateway for any religious person with any doubt at all. Don't forget that atheists aren't making any actual claim because of the lack of evidence so logically it passes the test. Agnostics just need to get one last toe over the fence.
ilikelazers 8 months ago
@ilikelazers
I understand what you are saying, but honestly I like to be open to ideas. Whilst I despise the idea of organised religion, and am in no way attempting to interpret the absolute, I think faith is a very strong thing to have. Did Jesus Christ wish for a multi-billion dollar organisation to be set up in his name? Of course not, but I think through faith in something, regardless of what it is, you can become a much happier person.
HeresASeatHD 8 months ago
You're right, hence the saying "ignorance is bliss" drugs are bliss to. I don't think you truly understand atheism because you say that you aren't one because you like to be open to ideas. Unlike religious people, atheists are open to a universe of possibilities because they don't make any claims. The definition of atheism is the lack of belief in a deity. Once you make a blind claim you automatically shut-off part of your brain. atheists are unwilling to do this because it doesnt lead to truth.
ilikelazers 8 months ago
@ilikelazers i have confirmation on some things dude. i know telepathy exists. i've done it sober and more heavily during trips. ive seen quite a lot that i cant really throw off as coincedence anymore. i question everything i encounter, until i get to the bottom of it and have no reason to lie. i think out of anyone, the native americans and their beliefs are closest to the truth then everything else i've seen.
renzokata 8 months ago
@renzokata "i know telepathy exists."
wait... what? evidence for this claim please. saying you experienced it on a trip doesn't qualify as our minds are bad enough at being tricked while sober never mind when we're on mescaline or mushrooms.
i can see that you BELIEVE it and i'm not calling you a liar but you're not questioning it because you experienced it, not knowing that our minds are easily tricked. apply your critical mind to your own experiences.
Rabsputin 8 months ago
@renzokata "i think out of anyone, the native americans and their beliefs are closest to the truth then everything else i've seen."
unless you have a deep understanding of exactly what reality actually is you have nothing to compare what native americans believe to. they might have opened the doors of perception by taking peyote but it doesn't mean they weren't hallucinating.
nobody in this day and age has a deep understanding of exactly what reality actually is.
Rabsputin 8 months ago
@Rabsputin nah dude. i do. reality is a oneness. the illusion is that you and me are sitting miles apart arguing about what it is. trust me, when you trip on peyote, you can integrate whats going on just fine, it doesn't make you stupid and it's not just a hullicination. i'm willing to bet you've never taken peyote once in your life to know ANYTHING about it. the actuality is that RIGHT NOW this is useless.
renzokata 8 months ago
@renzokata no, you don't have a deep understanding of exactly what reality actually is, you only think you do because you've taken a substance which has altered your perception by adjusting the chemicals in your brain and made you think you know more than you actually do. it all happened inside your head, in the same way that stupid religious people think "god" is talking to them.
reality is so far beyond our current understanding it's scary, we only ever see the tip of the iceberg.
Rabsputin 8 months ago
@Rabsputin is that your conclusion doctor?? lmfao. you dont know me. you don't know shit, and if you weren't so goddamn cynical, you might just have had a chance in hell at seeing it. because i wonder WHAT IN THE FUCK you think it is, can you even answer that?
renzokata 8 months ago
@renzokata if quantum physicists are discovering things about the nature of reality that we've never even dreamed of using science i find it EXTREMELY hard to believe you discovered the same thing while high on mesc.
the true nature of reality is so far outside what we experience in the narrow view our senses give us it's mind boggling and we're nowhere near having a full understanding of it.
claiming that you fully understand reality is both arrogant AND ignorant.
Rabsputin 8 months ago
@Rabsputin let me put it like this. everything your telling me doesn't mean shit in the face of what i've seen. it's NOTHING.
renzokata 8 months ago
@renzokata and compared with understanding reality you've seen nothing.
i don't care what you've seen, what i do care about is that you understand it wasn't an insight into how the universe works regardless what you think you "know". you sound like those nutters who think they were abducted by UFOs.
Rabsputin 8 months ago
@Rabsputin you sound like one of those cynical pricks that thinks hes gonna put it down on me but you got another thing commin'. i don't give a FUCK what you think either. people like you existed in large numbers during the dark ages, when shit went nowhere. you fucking piece of shit.
renzokata 8 months ago
@renzokata stop acting like a fucking child.
it's thanks to people like me the dark ages are over, but it was science which got us out of it, not gettin out of our heads on whatever was growin in the woods.
sure takin hallucinogenics are great for increasing creativity, but the trips we take on them are totally unreliable from the scientific perspective. they might show YOU something which might or might not be real, but the chances of someone else getting the same trip are practically zero.
Rabsputin 7 months ago
@Rabsputin you know i use that same line to argue with people who are retarded so save it. you dont know anything about what i'm trying to express. to you it's a bunch of new age mumbo jumbo. your scientific beliefs answer little questions about bigger issues. it leaves us all in the dark, just like you are. i'm NOT one of these christian idiots. dont judge me because i know a little about something you have no clue over. btw, why in the hell do you name yourself after Rasputin?
renzokata 7 months ago
@renzokata do you honestly think that scientific discovery leaves us all in the dark? seriously? the thing which got us OUT of the dark ages in the first place?
do you honestly believe that taking mind altering substances gives you a real and true representation of reality? what do you have to compare it with other than the tiny slice our senses give us the rest of the time?
my name is rab, i have long hair and a beard, i was given the nickname and it stuck.
Rabsputin 7 months ago
@renzokata for the record, i have absolutely no problem with people taking any kind of drug with the exception of heroin, i just don't see it as a way of giving us a real and true grasp of reality, something which scientists are working very hard on achieving.
were you aware that all the things we thought were solid are almost entirely made up of empty space? this is what we've found by studying the atom, all of it's component parts are (relatively) very far away from each other.
Rabsputin 7 months ago
@renzokata yeah, i really wanna get info from a drug addict
ilikelazers 7 months ago
@ilikelazers yeah and you can suck my dick. hallucinagens happen to be NON-ADDICTIVE so why dont you take your retarded comment and shove it up your ass?
renzokata 7 months ago
@renzokata hahahhahahahahaha now im getting yelled at by a drug addict. you really believe that taking drugs makes you see things more clearly? all that proves is that you're so deep into drug use that it has become your reality. here's some advice, only talk to people that are taking drugs with you because then you can live in your alternate reality without the chance of sounding like a crazy person
ilikelazers 7 months ago
@ilikelazers yeah i do, take me and take you for instance. i have taken hallucinagens several times and i am looking at this in a mature and logical viewpoint, i'm being real with YOU. all you're doing is making derogatory comments and trying to attack me. youre a dick. why you are is for reasons of your own but i can be one too, and when people like you try and FUCK WITH ME, i can be really fucking nasty. so if i sound FUCKING CRAZY to you, then why dont you LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE.
renzokata 7 months ago
@HeresASeatHD Arrogant of you. Agnosticism doesn't exist there agnostic theism and atheism there gnosic theism and atheism. If you believe in a god but arnt sure there is one you are an agnostic theist if you believe there is no god but you arnt sure then your an agnostic atheist. Gnostic means purely one sided or the pure belief that there must be a god or there can't be a god. If your neutral then you can be known as a deist. People who believe in a god but not any known one is a deist.
yuo252 8 months ago
@HeresASeatHD what exactly is not believing a ridiculous claim ignorant of?
i could claim that the universe in it's entirely sits snuggly inside the anus of an unimaginably huge pink unicorn eating a never ending bagel. would your not believing my claim make you ignorant?
Rabsputin 8 months ago
This was a really good call. Well handled and deconstructed by you guys. Flowed very well.
nycgroove1 9 months ago
the bible and religion in general...is like a teenager getting high. they do it cuz it makes them happy and worry free
MetalSiicken 9 months ago 16
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@MetalSiicken How about those little kids that are sent to jesus camp and they literaly cry their eyes out for forgivness ?
Those 10 year olds go to sleep every single night beliveing that in their afterlife they will go to hell and suffer for eternity. How does that make them happy ?
This is a link to the video I'm talking about : watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac
Zerrattul 7 months ago
Check it out at 0:17...it looks like Matt is Martin's ventriloquist dummy....hehehe
smackcheeks 9 months ago
i dont know who that bald guy is, but i want to be like him
TheShaitanjr 9 months ago
@TheShaitanjr Matt Dillahunty.
damandatwin 9 months ago
@damandatwin yeah i found that out a while ago
TheShaitanjr 9 months ago
And when you say you need to have your internal world view consistent with reality, you are assuming that reality is defined as not including an after life, but that is an un known, not a reality. Of course, you can do the best you can do here, and assume this is it, and that won't hurt you if there's an after life. If there is an after life and you do the best you can here, you will be farther down the pike in the spirit world. So...I'm not disagreeing with you on this.
rovingdesertfox 9 months ago
@rovingdesertfox Whether it's a comforting thought or not, it doesn't diminish the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. You're postulating some infinite imaginary afterlife that means nothing to anybody else. Your imaginary world is simply yours. If you think it's real, fair enough, but there's no reason you could devise to think that you're right.
alphaenemy 9 months ago
@alphaenemy When you say I don't know what I'm talking about, that would assume that you do. So where are you positioned in this wonderful universe to know that what I have said is untrue?
rovingdesertfox 9 months ago
@rovingdesertfox Way to invoke Pascal's Wager...enough said. You simply don't know anything that I don't. That's all I postulate.
alphaenemy 9 months ago
@alphaenemy I'm glad that your view of life still allows others to use their intuition when desired. Thank you so much oh wise Oz.
rovingdesertfox 9 months ago
If there is an after life, it does not cheapen this life. Just like going from 1st to 2nd grade was a building process, so too will I progress from this life to the spirit world.
If this is the only life, I do not need to get things right, because when I'm dead, it's done, no matter what I did.
rovingdesertfox 9 months ago
@rovingdesertfox Or it could be exactly the opposite. The spirit world might be really shitty. You don't know that it won't, either, and to assume you do is dishonest.
alphaenemy 9 months ago
@alphaenemy What a nice thought to think that we actually degrade the more we try to progress. Is that what you are saying? If the design is set up that we, we're all fucked beyond belief. I meant to include that the afterlife would provide for progress the more we actually tried to do so. Give me a guess here: It could be that, based on our life here we are placed in a condition in the afterlife and have a chance to progess from there.
Seems reasonable, and no it cannot be proven.
rovingdesertfox 9 months ago
@alphaenemy What a nice thought to think that we actually degrade the more we try to progress. Is that what you are saying? If the design is set up that we, we're all fucked beyond belief. I meant to include that the afterlife would provide for progress the more we actually tried to do so. Give me a guess here: It could be that, based on our life here we are placed in a condition in the afterlife and have a chance to progress from there.
Seems reasonable, and no it cannot be proven.
rovingdesertfox 9 months ago
@rovingdesertfox "...when I'm dead, it's done..." That's what we call sociopathy. We mostly put that on the "don'ts" list.
It's little moments like this that ensure that non-theists don't even have to answer theists' "moral arguments". We merely need to let y'all keep talking until it becomes clear what your views on morality are, then simply say "QED".
Morals: mostly pretty easy, unless you're crippled by religion.
DuhIdiot1 8 months ago
What is that song at the beginning?
Chilldudeski 9 months ago
a lot of people are going to be disappointed .naw they ll be dead
phildirt3 9 months ago
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a lot of people are going to be disappointed .
phildirt3 9 months ago
Is the opening theme to TAE available for download as a complete track, anywhere?
UnitedKingdomify 9 months ago
The fact that a believer is happier because there is an afterlife is no different that a drunk person is happier than a sober person. It's still an attempt to escape from reality.
A good example of the dangers of devout believers of an afterlife can be found by looking at the methods of suicide bombers. Or even George Bush. Would a president who didn't believe in a afterlife be so willing to send soldiers to their deaths in senseless wars?
a7xdude87 10 months ago 33
@a7xdude87 Agree with much of your post, I carry no water for the GOP (I'm Independent) That said, would you assert Obama continues on with WAR and senseless deaths due to his belief in an afterlife? We need make as much effort to think and avoid buying into political dogma as we do theological BS. IMHO - Policy is for sale in this country, we have "Republicrats" loyal to those funding their campaigns, and that leaves us out. Watch what they do, ignore what they say. Regards
1Skeptik1 8 months ago