@m3talizkewld00d nut not a lot of chuch teach on the holy spirit, however their a some how do james white is one such teacher who does, sam shamoun does too
but the bible is self consistant on the matter of it being the holy spirit, just because some church dont teach or know how to express answers on this matter .. it does not logicall follow the bible is not teaching the truth
and i am another teaches on the holy spirit as well even these text are about the holy spirit
@m3talizkewld00d well here is the thing u have to understand ... preist are in catholicism .. and they dont know the bible for what it teaches as they believe in other traditions
preachers -- it all depends on the person and how long they have been in the faith for
branches of christianity .. there is one christian faith what ur speaking of is denomination i believe .. they all have different ways of understand according their own methods
@m3talizkewld00d preachers and preist are not the same as learned scolors and teachers of the faith, infact most preists and preachers only have a meer understanding ... and can not answer as they do not study the faith in the manner is meant to be done
and what i say is biblical answer and not my own thoughts -- i always teach from the biblical data ... and not some preconcieved notion like most islamic speakers
@followerofjesus1984 the comforter --- is the holy spirit as jesus said --- the fact that he was already there for one purpose does not discount him coming again for a longer purpose
here is the fact Jesus rose bodily from the grave by the power o the spirit of God and was with them for 40 days while jesus was there -- once he returned ... the spirit descended upon the belivers of christ to build up the church of christ
@m3talizkewld00d well a distinction needs to be made between the religion which followed correctly then the violent surah are for today, and then muslim who are ordinary people who unfortunity are being decieved
and what you have learn about my faith biblical false and you need to read the bible for the bible
@m3talizkewld00d none taken ... but as christian i have a right to let the bible speak for itself and teach what it teaches ... and u are in error on this ... the bible is clear
and islam has been falsly teaching what they believe it teaches and what it actually says
@m3talizkewld00d well .. its not a ghost .. it is the holy spirit of God , and God himself... so yes he does speak acts 13 demonstrate this
and it is said in john 3 times in john 7, john 14 and john 20 -- that it is the holy spirit
again where is the comparison of heaven to a caved ... the spirit was with the father and jesus and the spirit was poured out on the disciple and the believer at penicost in acts 1
and it was jesus teaching and the other new testament teachings he revealed
@m3talizkewld00d the fact that doesnt make sense it is a big sign .... that you do not understand what the bible teach and do not respect it .... your belief are drummed into to you till you see the thing your told
now the fact the spirit has been active in the world since the beginning does not mean that he does not and can not have more defined role in my faith,
@followerofjesus1984 and fact that jesus actually tells us whom the comforter is in most of the passage of the 6 in john indicates that this is all speaking of one entity .. and that is the holy spirit
he had one role in giving life to christ in mary. and john in elizabeth ... and this show one side to his divine nature, as the origanater of life, but in the disciple he came for a completely different task which is also through all christians to build up the church ..
@m3talizkewld00d that is the point you are stating what you believe ... but i am sticking with what the bible teaches ... as the holy spirit is taught through this passages ...
it is discribing two different acts of the holy spirit .. and not a man like ur taught Jesus had to God for the spirit was in him, Jesus whent and the holu spirit .. the comforter came to live in the disciple as all the text teach .. and im not teaching what i believe im teaching what bible firmly declares
@m3talizkewld00d And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever. 17 He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn't see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you john 14 :16 -17
here we have the first part of the promise .. of the holy spirit and he is said that he was there but would come into the disciples .. there all about the holy spirit
@m3talizkewld00d no the context is the key .. and not a single word but more to the point --- to you is the key as it tells us whom jesus was speaking to and telling it was going to come too
wow .. the fact the holy spirit was there changes nothing
they are two separate acts of the holy spirit .. to bring the messiah and the baptist into the world --- but the spirit would come a second time for a longer duration .. to establish the church and build the church
@m3talizkewld00d again ur ignoring what the text say .... it says nothing about the comforter being a human being .. but the holy spirit
the disciple knew they holy spirit as he was already ther in jesus but jesus had to go away in order for him to com and dwell in the disciples
and the point is Jesus speaking to the disciples in the context allude too .. "he will come to you" so u have distroyed this argument by given the full text
@m3talizkewld00d well we have no place to say ... but the bible is clear the comforter is not a prophet but is God the holy spirit and not a human being this is my point ... john 14 :16 -17 , john 14 :26 and 15 :26 and 16 :5 -16 is about Gods holy spirit
the bible excludes a humanbeing by saying the holy spirit --- the passages are references to the holy spirit
so who are muslims to tell me and any christian that these are about muhammad when jesus said who it is and when he would come
@m3talizkewld00d no its not my beliefs nor is it in the bible .. it is islamic blunders of thinking that john 16 mention muhammad
when it doesnt .... this is about the holyspirit ... that is my belief and the consistant testamony which jesus gave
i am a christian and i believe what jesus said i just dont believe what islam perverts it to say ... muhammad is not in the passages on the holy spirit john 16 ... says the comforter will not comeunto you .. speaking of who ... the disciples
@m3talizkewld00d the second and third 1 is a personal testamony which an abbriviated account, the other is in fronted of the court and therefore he adds additional information which will help the listener understand more, this is a common practice for any one who write historical and / or ordinary literature .. and since God works through mans experieces and through their abilities .. it is highly plausible
and know jesus was speaking of the holy spirit not muhammad ..
@m3talizkewld00d 1 --- 1 corinthian is what your refering to ... but even so how do u know jesus had long har for one, and why are you reading into the text thing which not there "he curses jesus christ for having long hair" so nice try with dawah tactic .. its does not work .. all your doing is making yourself look like a fool
everytime he talked about the jorney to demascus he changed it , no not at all ---- passage one is from lukes prespective the writer of acts,
@m3talizkewld00d jesus and long hair ... are u basing this on the holy wood depiction which is not true ... no one know what was like in paerson and it is not relivent, so this an argument from silence
@m3talizkewld00d on ur trinity theory ... paul never invented it, infact this was a divinely reveal doctrine from God of his nature ... even the old testament attests to it in many way like in isaiah 48 :15-17 and was confirmed in the incarnation of jesus to its fullest understanding
the word trinity was a word which was used to discribe and define a biblical truth
paul never saw jesus true enogh, but neither did muhammad so ur point is not relivent -- paul cursed jesus for having long hair
@m3talizkewld00d strange teaching .. u have commited shirk .. by saying Jesus with God in the beginning ...
on a another point .. where this was taken from john 1 ... actually says the word was God by nature and the word became flesh in the person of Jesus christ
is the only way for some one to say who they are to come forth and say i am God ...this is just a low move ... as i am .. is Gods mean it means yahweh and jesus claims it... he also claims the divine attributes
this man knows more than the pope if your muslim say tabarakallah if your christian may the god of jesus the one true god guide you like our brother :)
According to quran : Jesus' mother virgin Mary is sister of omran,but mother of the Jesus virgin Mary dose not have brother by name omran.because quran mix up between moses and jesus families,because moses has sister by name mary,too and brother by name omran,mean mary (sister of moses) also sister of omran.the different between two marys 5000 years.that tell us about the huge mistakes in quran and there are many,mean quran is not from God,because words of God has no mistakes.
i said some mean things to muslems on here one day iam sorry and repent before the lord God of Issac and Jacob& Moses and my lord and saviour jesus christ i do not repent of my faith in Jesus but i am sorry to deen and muslims for my behaviourand how i spoke to you please forgive me.... in christ -steven
"No reason to outline this"? ofcourse there is a reason to outline this. God (according to christianity) is sending his 'Son', THERE IS EVERY REASON TO MENTION THIS. He took the time to mention a king, messenger, prophet, priest, son of man, e.t.c but no need to mention 'SON'?
@TheAriiiiii look what ur asking for is not going to happen cause jesus was not in the old testestament as a person, but the 2nd person who took on flesh and became jesus was ---- so when asking for a verse where jesus said he is the son of God is a feeble attempt, why isnt it good to have passage in the new testament, where God said he was, jesus said he was, the angel said he was, the devil said he was, evil demonic spirit said he was, john the baptist said he was, and the disciples
Look i don't want to offend you or your beliefs but we as servants of the Creator cannot assume anything. It just seems very unlikely that God would send his own SON to this planet and not tell anyone about his arrival (before his arrival) The jews foretold him by many many names but never as the 'SON OF GOD'. This concept of Jesus (pbuh) being the 'SON OF GOD' came after his death and not during his life or before his coming.
(Deut 17:15) calls him King (18)king (psalms 2)king (pslams 23) doesn't even mention Jesus pbuh (psalms 110) priest (isaiah 53)arm of the LORD (isaiah 9) woderful, counselor, everlasting father, prince of peace, zeal of the lord (isaiah 42)servant (isaiah 49)nothing (isa 61)spirit of the sovereign LORD (jer 23- 1)nothing (jer 23-4)nothing (jer 23-5-8) king/nothing (jer 31-40) nothing (dan 9 20-27) anointed one (dan 7 9-14) SON OF MAN (dan10 1-9) nothing (mal 2-17) nothing (mal 3 1-6) messenger.
@TheAriiiiii wel actually tey all tell us about Jesus, u have gone completelyissed thepoint of the passages, his a king, a prophet and a priest, but they are all about jesus, just read them and let them tell you --- each and every vesr i gave is about my lord coming --- and this is a fact
deut 17:15 and 18: 15-22, isabout him being a king and a prophet, and his earthly mission,psalms 2, 22,23 are in reflection to cetain aspects --- 22 is the psalm qouted at the crucifixion,
@followerofjesus1984 psalms 110 is a bout 2 of the 3 major rol he would fulfill, isaiah 9, 11, 42, 49,53, 61 are propecies around his life at different point
isa 9 prince of peace is a name or title referece to him, isa 11 the davidic king is bout him for he is a descendant of david, isa 42the servents mission, he became a servent to give life for a ransom, isa 49 the servent bring salvation ---- this i what jesus brought through believing in hi we are saved, and by his blood we redeemed
@followerofjesus1984 So based on the evidence that the jews called Jesus (pbuh) every worthy name and NEVER NEVER EVER called him or reffered to him as the 'SON OF GOD'
@TheAriiiiii the incarnation happened long after all the old testament was complete, therefore had no reason to out line this until the time was right
@followerofjesus1984 I'm not looking for a verse where Jesus (pbuh) says he is the son of God. I want to see a verse where God says Jesus(pbuh) is his Son (in the old testement) and God is sending his son to earth to correct he sinners or something similar. God took the time to call him by many names in the old testement but never as his own Son. which proves everything i'm trying to prove. One just has to be logical and honest to himself to see what i'm proving is true.
@TheAriiiiii as i said the old testment was complete 400 year before jesus coming, and there is no direct reference in the old testament, as jesus was not in the times of the old covenant --- but in the incarnation, this is the first time jesus was known, of cours the divine nature pre - existed but not as jesus but as the eternal son.... and if u read isaiah 9 fo a child will be born to us, a son will be giving to us, showing that he was a man of two natures,
If we accept Jesus (AS) was put on the cross there is a clue in the Bible that Jesus (AS) was miraculously lifted to Heaven while alive. According to the Bible Jesus (AS) "died" within 6 hours though the average person lasted 3 days on the cross (so did "God" not want to "suffer" up to the average amount?) The Bible goes on to say his "death" the same evening surprises Pilate given the average person lasted 3 days.
@juslkn actually let jesus say the beatings, the fact he had nail inbedded in bth his hand and feet, really sheds light on it, and he had spear driven through his torso too
and he have up his spirit , he has the Choose to do it, to end this line,
and jesus tells the purpose of the crucifixtion many times, read mathew 20 : 28, john 3 : 16, just to find this out
@followerofjesus1984 Nowhere in the Bible Jesus (AS) says he is God in the flesh, or that his blood would forgive everyone's sins. God in the flesh, how is it different from Roman, Greek, Hindu gods? God in the flesh, means he ate, drank, urinated, defecated, passed gas. How do you conceive of a god who needs to take a break for a dump? Its pagan. Has nothing to do with God's Truth. Muslims believe God is very real, and not a man made idea.
@juslkn 1 if u say the bible know where states that Jesus is God in the flesh, and no where did i even say such a thing, but to make it clear that u have never read the bible cos john 1 : 1 - 14, philippians 2 : 6 - 11 both affirm this
2 if u feel ur lack of reading the bible is clear warrent in saying no where does say that Jesus died for our sins and his blood cleanses us of sin a matthew 20 : 20 - 28, john 3 : 16 - 17, john 1 : 29, romans 3 : 21- 31, hebrews 10 : 1 18
@juslkn the main difference is that they all were men Gods, and yeshua is the God man, he already exsisted before everything came to be,
how do u concieve a God who never once cares even the slightest to show his love, before asking u to do it first, ours showed in the sign of Given his son as an offering, so i have no problem with him growing tired, need to eat, sleep , and drink and so forth, this is problem to u cause ur god never cared to do a thing like this ?
@followerofjesus1984 You wrote nowhere Jesus says he is god in the flesh yet you also wrote you believe that he is god in flesh. This is contradiction, something is not true. Christianity basic belief is Jesus died for everyone's sins. Again not something Jesus said.
Allah in Quran says belief cannot be force changed. It also says every person has to answer for his belief, thoughts, acts on Judgment day.
@followerofjesus1984 I go to source. Jesus (pbuh) would not be shy to say he is God in flesh because it is issue of salvation. He did not say it, never said it. Actually he said opposite, as I confirmed myself in the Bible. In the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) said worship not him, but God the Father. It is what Islam says too. Anyone can write he is God after Jesus left the earth, does not make what was conjectured and written true.
@followerofjesus1984 Like I wrote, anyone can write anything after Jesus (pbuh) left the earth. It is illogical to take those over what Jesus (pbuh) himself said, especially when that contradicts what he said.
@juslkn same can be said about ur prophet and it has bee proven
all ur doing i argueing fro silence
the writers of the new testaen either walked withor had a personal encounter with him, and wroteunder the inspiration of the holy spirit . and all accounts are true, as they were around at the ties
@followerofjesus1984 God in the flesh, read the whole new testament, and especailly john 1 : 1 - 18, john 17 1-5, johm 3 :16 - 17, colossians 1 : 15- 20, philippian 2 : 6 - 11
Some say they see vision of Jesus, others vision Buddha. Cannot be God's Truth. God's Truth comes clear and not confusing. Remember our existence is a test, and devil's main purpose is to mislead mankind about God. Bible says Jesus (pbuh) was tempted by the devil. But God can never be tempted by the devil. You say God in flesh urinated and defecated. You say God was beaten and killed. You believe against the Glory of God.
@juslknfor 2 common reasons that muslims like to imply such back handed methods like where in the bble does Jesus say he is God and worship me
the fact is before Jesus can openly say he is God, jesus must be clear on the person he is in the God head, he is the son , not the father, but even say God's personal nae to his followers in the od testament is yahweh, and in the new testament he uses this name for himself like 20 times, by its meaning of i am
@juslkn yes he was tested by tedevil to estblish his power over all things, and thing defeated him by hisdeath,cuse that is what Jesus ame to do, offer his life as sacrifice for our sin, but then 600 yearlater tempted muhammad and on hi over surah 53 :19 -2, so dont try to sa about the devil tempting jesus, cause jesus was victoious over the devil or satan
@followerofjesus1984 Again, God can never be tempted by the devil. But you say Jesus is God and was tempted by the devil. Obviously it is against the Glory of God.
Muhammad and Jesus, peace be upon them, are not God. They were men like us. God sent thousands of Prophets to all people all over the world. Muhammad (pbuh) is the last of Messengers and Prophets. No new Prophet will come after him. Jesus (pbuh) was raised alive to heaven and will return to earth one day.
@juslkn plz slow ur self, u think God is one in person, but us , we belive God s one in being but 3 in person, hilest the son wa tested, the father never was and neither the spirit, and as i said he was tested and it failed, jesus had control o it
butit was all part of te purpose so Jesus as a man could say i have wonover temptatio and ave given u a place for lifei e and u will be protected by his grace if u believe
@followerofjesus1984 Muslims do not depict photo of Muhammad because we do not worship Muhammad. Muhammad (pbuh) himself forbade making his image. We honor that.
You can believe what you want to. I explained why that belief is against the Glory of God. The rest is up to you.
@juslkn no your not, ur against the very thing God said he would do in the old testament, he made it clear he was gonna enter into huanity through the son, and take the sn of the world away from us , isa 42, 49, 52: 13- 15, and 53, 63 :7 - 14 an malachi 3 :1 - 6 2 : 1 - 3 all tell of Gods plan to enter intohumanity
@followerofjesus1984 Bible has lots of references to "sons of God". Anyone doing duty toward God, can be called "son of God". But people added begotten son for Jesus (pbuh) after he left earth, and elevated him to God. Qur'an says Jesus (pbuh) had no biological father, his mother Mary was a virgin. In a sense God was his Father. But he was not God. He was man. Like Adam was man.
@juslkn but do u understand the difference in the sons of God, and jesus being the unique son of God
sons of God ------ is through faith in God and his son jesus
son of God ------ is through the divine nature of God, the father , the son and the holy spirit are different peroson but they are the sae divine nature of God
@followerofjesus1984 had no biological father, his mother Mary was a virgin. In a sense God was his Father. But he was not God. He was man. Like Adam was man.
in a way i think there soe truth in th quran reflecting this but it does not real all the truth,
1 the purpose of the virgin birth
2 why we say he is the son of God,
3 adam was the first man, impossile for to be born to parents cause he would not be the frst an, and was created frm dust,
@followerofjesus1984 Jesus on the other hand --- was eternal in his divine nature and finite in his huan nature, an this is fullysupported trough the new test if its read in context
@followerofjesus1984 I understand your beliefs well. I explained why fundamentally it is also against the Glory of God. God cannot be tempted by the devil in any way or shape, God does not urinate and defecate, God is not beaten and killed.
@juslkn and i say its not, let take God love, if he created us out love, how did he know what loe was if h had no other person or object to channel it through
it would be ashe a if he created us out of selfishness
but our has always been three person and explain how we came to be made through love, cause love has an object
using huan rationality to understand what God is and does, is like the blind leading the blind, it cant be done
@followerofjesus1984 huans can never fully understand God but only to wha he reveals through his prophet and he revealed he is 3 person in on God head ---- so why argue
@followerofjesus1984 Hindus believe in God the way you do. They say the god idol is a channel. At some time their gods were walking, talking gods. There is no difference in concept between you and them. I think some or many such "gods" were actually Prophets as God sent thousands to all people. Arabs were doing the same thing, worshiping through idols. Ka'aba the House of Worship to God built by Adam, rebuilt by Abraham was full of idols. God ordered to clear the Ka'aba of all idols.
@juslkn hindu s again, leave ur misoncepton at the door befoe comparing my veiw to theirs read and study what i believe , and wat they believe, ausethere no smalarities
1 we believe in one God, who has been revald thugh 3 persons, there is one God in may Gods, alhoug they believe in one God , they beieve in many other Gods alongside i
2 the only reasn u think its the same s cause ur lea to that ssumpion from urah 5 : 73 - 8, 116, where it seems to set ot the trinity but totally wrong
@juslkn the kaba was built by adam, and rebuilt by abraham, wht source out side the quran or the hadits verify this , as the bibl doesnt state a thin of ths, and i have not come across anything like it, but do know one thing, the kaaba was built in th century ad, way after abrahm, infact 2000 year after, and about 3000 years after adam
@followerofjesus1984 The rock on which Abraham stood and supervised construction of Ka'ba, along with his footprints exists. In Torah, Hagar and Ishmael were sent to Paran (desert). This is Arabia according to Encyclopedia Biblica. Arabs knew about Abraham and Ismail (pbut), through oral narrations. After all they are their ancestors. Though most over time had become pagan, incorporating Abraham's God Allah, as one of important gods. Pagan Arabs followed Abraham's Haj ritual in corrupted form.
@juslkn interesting story, still no proof, abraham was long gone when the mecca was built in the 4th centry ad, apart from the hadiths , which are unreliable what proof have u got for this, as there is no eidence in the bble, or outside the quran, like history
@followerofjesus1984 Its like asking what proof someone is son of father. Arabs of Arabia are very conscious of ancestry. If Saudi marries non-Saudi they lose citizenship with few exceptions. This law is not by Quran! But an example of how Arabs take ancestry seriously. Bloodline identity was even more powerful for Arabs before Quran, so we have the answer.
PS. Muslim scholars think Makkah is mentioned in Torah, its called Bakkah. Words in Arabic can replace B with M without losing meaning.
@juslkn yet they lack real roof of muhammad being related to ismael, a best its circumstancail,as there noproof out side the religion there is oly one with his ties to ishmael and its deemed a false work
there get mary ancestory completely wrong she is not the sster of moses or aaron, but the decendant of king david and abraham,
@followerofjesus1984 Why would it be false? You have not proved they are not descendants. Abraham was born in Iraq, and traveled widely. You don't have greater knowledge of the people, language, bloodline than the people who always lived there. Genetic tests prove it correct anyway.
@followerofjesus1984 People of middle east don't think its fantasy. They know their history, area, bloodline. They are not interested in outsider explaining something false to support his own absurd belief.
Look up Psalms 84:5-7. Bakka valley is pilgrimage place with flowing spring. It means Valley of Tears. Pilgrims cried and wept, which is true of Makkah, especially leaving the valley. You don't have to believe its Makkah. Question still is as I asked before what happened to this pilgrimage?
one the ishmael root, which was long Gone before the prophet, at least a thousand years, there no real proof out side the quran for it, just the assertion of ibn ishak, and this account has been proven as a false information
everything start out as a question in life, and u look credible sources like history, acheology and countable non biblical evidences, or non religous text to see if its reliable, and if u cant find deemable information then what?
@followerofjesus1984 the bible says many things that seem to support ur case but as u exmine them , then it comes clear that it is not what it seem, it meanion this in a psalm
1 psalms are worship and praise books, al though they contin some prophtical matials, this is not they're itended purpose with ll it say, the writer may add something, a reference to a place or a time to help him give a clear picture of what in his heart
2 if it was a historical point then u could be on something, but as it is a part of psalm its not the same context, place are key to bringing the exact meaning of the purpose but tey not essentailly its main focus, rather ths psalm is about worship of the true God yahweh
@followerofjesus1984 You are saying Arabs are not descendants of Abraham and Ismail (pbut). You have no idea about bloodline, tribal lineage among Arabs. They know who is who among themselves. As a foreigner you think you know better about Arabs than Arabs themselves who always lived there. You are a joke. No serious scholar agrees with you. You are a joke because you want to support your own false religious doctrines.
@juslkn i think this ust the start ofthe thing, there is no roof and all scholor who base there faith on the bible as histor back it up, knows there o evidence ofthe claim, ibn ishak is the only record to ths and he is serious dout as thereno proof for his assertion ----- o the descendancy is not true give one source that veries it
@followerofjesus1984 Psalms clearly says Valley of Bakka is pilgrimage place. Stop making stuff to suit and fit your false doctrines. Pay attention to what is written. You did not answer what happened to this pilgrimage place. It existed back then. What happened to it?
Psalms 84:5-7
How blessed are those who find their strength in you,
and long to travel the roads that lead to your temple!
As they pass through the Baca Valley, He provides a spring for them
@followerofjesus1984 "travel the roads that lead to Your temple! As they pass through the Baca Valley"
I am not misreading context. They are traveling to God's House or Temple through the Valley.
If you cannot speak truth, you don't have right religion to begin with. Atheism, homosexual marriage, pornographic industry, gambling industry, etc all came from Christian Europe. In Saudi Arabia all banned, yet you to think it is the Muslims who have God's truth wrong. You are a JOKE.
@juslkn its not that ur misqouting the passage ur just not giving too much though upon the role of the valley as to play, it has very little to do with it, , the psalms does not incate anything to do with this place being used for worshi, they were passing through the place of worship, and zion is that place
@followerofjesus1984 Zion can generally mean any promised land. IF it is in today's Israel, where is it? What happened to this place? You have NO answer!
In Psalms, to get to God's Temple, you have to pass through the valley of Bakka. How else you get there? Its pilgrimage to House of Worship. There is no misreading.
This is what God says in Qur'an:
3.96 Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah)
@juslkn the place of destination was just out side jerusalem, mount zion the valley of balsam tree ( baka,) is on the path to the destination there fore it not a significant place
@followerofjesus1984 Baca means Weeping or Tears. Google Bacavalleyministries. It says the same.
From Answer [Bible Guide], what it says:
"A valley in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Ps 84:7); perhaps another name for the valley of Rephaim. The plural Becaim is used to designate a tree."
"Perhaps another name for valley of Rephaim". Perhaps?? another name for Rephaim? Haha. It means they DON'T know what this valley is in Israel! Then it says worse nonsense. Becaim = 1 Tree. So NOT the same word!
@juslkn its not a prophecy about someone coming from here or going there but merely a conponant to illistrate te jorney to mount zion, and the how psalms 84 is about worshipping God and not a place of worship,
@followerofjesus1984 Ofcourse it is about worshiping God. But it is talking of a place to which they traveled. Its not a prophecy. Abraham built House of Worship and many traveled to it for pilgrimage. It was place of pilgrimage even when the House of Worship became desecrated with idols and false gods.
@juslkn but the valley is not the destination its just apat the root to getting there as the passge clear indicates, it has nothing to do with mecca, its outsde jerusalem and not near mecca
@followerofjesus1984 the term Baca in Hebrew means either "weeping" or "balsam trees." Hence, the valley of Baca can be translated as the valley of balsam trees. We find reference to such a place located within the Valley of Rephaim, an area approximately 3-4 miles south and west of Jerusalem:
this place in question is north en israel and not in arabia
@followerofjesus1984 Didnt you read, there is NO valley called Bakka near Jerusalem. They think perhaps it is valley of Raphaim. So they are GUESSING.
Then they say Bacaim means Tree. So Baca means what? That did not make sense. If they got it wrong and meant Bacaim is plural and means Trees. I know enough Arabic to know that Bacaim would designate plural. So then baca means one tree. A valley has one tree?! Haha. Its nonsense.
@juslkn even so r still stretching ue self cause th valley is only apart of the journey and is used to high light apartyof the psalma, it has no reference to islam, just, apart of te expression in the songs or poem, the important part is muntzion as inthat day it was the holy place, so its not a prophecy of any kind
@followerofjesus1984 Prophets Abraham, Isaac, Ismail, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus, and all other Prophets are part of Islam.
As I said before it is not a prophecy. There were those who made pilgrimage to the House of Worship as it says. It was not in a populated place. At the time it would be known only by its valley name. The valley was part of the journey, absolutely. But you do not know what this pilgrimage is and where it is. You are guessing.
@juslkn yea i know ur prophets but the biblical one deffinatelt are not, they never head of it, they word dedicated to yahwah, the true God, and Jesus is alsoa king and a preist and the son of God, he exsisted before all the prophet, he is God incarnate, nothing u say is the truth
@juslkn now ur misqouting me, i know its a real place other it would not say it, but what i was making clear is the place was only used to amplify the writes intention behind the whole psalm, its about worshipping God, not neccasarily a place
@followerofjesus1984 Psalms says its a valley, naming it, talks about road and travel. You made it up to be metaphorical to suit yourself. Not the only logical problem as I have mentioned. The biggest of course is who was Jesus (pbuh) worshiping in the Temple? Himself? Three in one, one in three? No, he was worshiping God the Father. That is who we worship. It is the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Muhammad, and all Prophets. It is the truth.
@juslkn now ur putting words and terms into the situation, i never said or ment metaphorically, i meant that even tho' its a place, the useage in thepsalm is not directly linked to any particular time, but is used to extract the feeling in which david the write was trying to imploy in the poem,
so dont make this a war between u and i, who is right or wrong, cause in this case the poem should speak for its own purpoee and not have a completely unrelated theme adapted to it
@followerofjesus1984 I am Muslim because I am lover of truth (and justice). It is not a war, its not personal. Also you've not insulted God, Qur'an, any Prophet.
"the psalm is not directly linked to any particular time, but is used to extract the feeling"
I can't understand what this means.
PS> Allah has no begotten son, but for the people Jesus (pbuh) certainly could refer to Allah as the Father as he had no biological father. In the Bible he also says worship God (the Father), not him.
@juslkn r a muslim who loves truth, yet misqoute the bible and me, oh well
hat i said is that although the valley is place, the useage of it in the psalms to essensuate a pitcular feelin of the poems intenton, the witer lovs yahwenh and in the poem in the psalm, he is just using different things to elivate his love
i thinkur misinformed slightly to what is meant by the term God's son, its notbecause he was born of a virgin, but because he is the eternal son, that exsised before all creation
where in the bible does he say this ----- give on example of him sayng do not worship him but only the father
@followerofjesus1984 I did not misquote you. You say its not a place, but to capture feeling. I could make no sense of this explanation. To your belief, to me mine.
I came across a Bible in the store, I opened it randomly. On that page itself, highlighted in red font was Jesus clearly saying to worship God the Father. I don't remember the number of verse, but I read it over five times to make sure I was reading and understanding it right.
i meant that, even tho' its a place, the useage in the psalm is not directly linked to any particular time, but is used to extract the feeling in which david the write was trying to imploy in the poem,
do u know what a poem consists, and that not that conists of is relivant to its subject, but is useage has a percific purpose to it subject
@followerofjesus1984 so in this psalms although it mentions a real place, date time, and so forth, it purpose of using this particullar place was only to elivte 2 things, his love for the lord and the locatin of the destination mount zion
and it reference placeto also gie indication of the disance
@juslkn i dont need to, wati said does make perfect sence, i never said it was a place, all i said is that theuseage of the place in reference to the psalm, is clarify the disance, and to elivate his intended purpose behind the psalm
itsnot abou the valley in totl, just the useage of the place in the text ---- its not a refeence to mecca in the slightest, but a reference to the writer true inten of glorifying his creater n mount zion
@followerofjesus1984 It was probably either Mark or Mathew. If I go by that store this week or next, I will try to find that Bible again assuming it is still there because it was a month ago.
@followerofjesus1984 I went back to the store, found King James Bible with Jesus' quotes highlighted in red, and nowhere Jesus says he is God. Quite the opposite.
@juslkn ur not reading it properly, he does say he is the son of God , and God,
john 5 -19-30
john 10-22-42 --------- both say he is the son of God
and every time you see the word I am like for example in John 8 : 28 and 58 he means he is the God as God himself said the name i want tobe knon as is the great I AM
and nohs otgonna come out and say plainly that he sGd hewilsay his is by the divine name I am
@juslkn and in mark 12 : his otethe ha --- so even on this he say love is the grat commandmenand ifGod is one in person, how can he know what love is before cration
there needs to be a plorelarity of persons in the Godhead , to express and understand what love is n order to create through it
Jesus’ words are our ‘Bible’, called Injeel (or Evangel in English). Important to have it in original. Not having it is very mysterious. We don’t give more importance to others from which you create your doctrines. Trinity to Christmas to Easter, Christian doctrine is rooted in paganism.
You’re right we don’t need original language to get meaning. I assumed people corrupted Jesus’ words to mean he is God the Creator in flesh. But found nowhere. He worships one God, says he is son of man.
@juslkn yea ur injil ----- its very mysterious that this apparent book has not been preserved, as for ours it has we have early manuscripts dating from the first century, and there is a a science called textual critism which helps establish just how reliable the bible is and surprise surprise it 99,8 percent reliable which is the best for any work antiquity, unlike the quran which is only preseverved by word of a man, and there is no back up proof
@followerofjesus1984 then u go to the trinity, the bible proves the trinity, so there fore u have no arguement as ur quran misrepsent it, with a straw man attack, u have no clue about it
as for Christmes and easter, this yet again faulty analysis, we follow the bible and these do not have any kind of offical info, it a myth and not a real arguement,
@followerofjesus1984 The words of Jesus are not in the original language yet you are saying it is 99.8% reliable. That is logical nonsense. You do not have the original. There is nothing to compare to.
@juslkn sorry but this is the weakest arguement as ur leaning towards a misconception, we dont believe that a langauge is divine, but the message and not a apart of it, but the whole thing, and transalation does not effect it,
@juslkn we have early manuscripts to compare to, which are direct copies, and they are reliable and this has been confirmed, so ur arguement is flawed and total bogus
we have over 25000 early manuscripts that confirm the bible we have today, which go back to the first century and are reliable
@followerofjesus1984 What do you mean you have early manuscripts. The earliest ones are copies of copies five times over. But most of all the original in Aramaic does not exist. Listen to top Bible scholars, they say the same.
@juslkn yes i agree cause the new testament never was written in aramaic, but greek, and although the origanals have long gone the copied manuscripts are still in existance, and confirm todays bibles
and this comes from the sames scolors that say about the origanals not being in existance
@followerofjesus1984 You’re right we don’t need original language to get meaning. I assumed people corrupted Jesus’ words to mean he is God the Creator in flesh. But found nowhere. He worships one God, says he is son of man.
planly obvious u have not given much fort about the bible ----- the spirit is the author of the bible and all these thing are in the bible about jesus, read john one : one - forteen, john : one - five, corintians 8:6 , philippians 2;6 colossians one : 15-20
@followerofjesus1984 The corruption is in the words of other people. Also the words of Jesus is not the same in every Bible. There are discrepancies and contradictions in details between the various Bibles. And on top of that there are obviously people who have written their own ideas and doctrines. This complete set is what you call Bible. We do not consider all Bible corrupt free. However things like Jesus saying worship one God, falling to face and worshiping God are not corrupt.
@juslkn hmm so u say but u are dishonouring ur book by saying this read surah 10; 37 and 94
discrepance, u mean scribble error this falls under varient readings,
as for contradictions, no there isnt
give me ur best one u have
mate our doctine come from the bible, and we formed in the first century ..... its not or own ideas its creeds that have been known for two thousand year, and for over more
@followerofjesus1984 I am not dishonoring Qur'an. I believe God sent His Word through Jesus (pbuh) which is called Injeel in Book form. Your doctrines maybe from the Bible but that does not mean those doctrines cannot be tested for truth. It fails the test. Example, Trinity is not something Jesus said. So I don't believe in your doctrine. I believe and love Jesus (pbuh) though, as do all Muslims.
@followerofjesus1984 well if ur gonna reject the trinity based on the fact that jesus never used the word, although he taught about its concept more than once, here is the example ---- john forteen - sixteen, and if u will reject this then u must reject the shahada as the name and its concept can't be found at all in the quran, and u have a souce that difines it which in al likely hood was written between 250--300 after the prophet death
@followerofjesus1984 so u have no idea if this was a true teaching of muhammad or just something someone else said cause they wanted to elevate the prophet to the same level as God by making him a partner which by all mean fits another term and concept of shirk
@followerofjesus1984 Similarly there are misguided people who claim to be Muslims who take meaning out of context from Quran. For example, they will say God asked hypocrites to ask Muhammad (pbuh) for forgiveness, thus Muhammad (pbuh) forgives sins. But in the next verse God says even if Muhammad asks for forgiveness for them, they will not be forgiven. So their doctrine is in contradiction. But they still want to make up contradictory stuff and believe their own ideas.
@juslkn i agree there uslims whom believe excetional thing with out proof, like uhammad forgiven sin which he cn forgive all sin, ust the sin afflicted upon himself,
he was an orinay man like u and me, and it seems like some peopl however mae him into a superhuman
@followerofjesus1984 There is no contradiction in Shahada. Muhammad (pbuh) is not God. There is contradiction in Christian doctrine of Trinity. Jesus did not say he is God the Creator in flesh. A guy on another board said the Disciples worshiped Jesus as God the Creator. When I asked did they say they will worship him as God after he comes out of the toilet, he was offended. If it is the truth why get offended.
@juslkn i never said thee was a contrdiction,i said its a man made doctrine as there is noting in the quran about it neither by nam or nature, or its form, it only can beound in the ahadith, sahih buhkari which by all account wa written some two hundredyesr ormore after his death
no, but the spirit did, through the writer, of the books,but he did say he as and is God, and that e existed before ll things
saying ther is contradiction and not showing where this , helps me so much
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Sin is an imaginary disease invented to sell you an imaginary cure.
bigboy45454545 3 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d nut not a lot of chuch teach on the holy spirit, however their a some how do james white is one such teacher who does, sam shamoun does too
but the bible is self consistant on the matter of it being the holy spirit, just because some church dont teach or know how to express answers on this matter .. it does not logicall follow the bible is not teaching the truth
and i am another teaches on the holy spirit as well even these text are about the holy spirit
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d well here is the thing u have to understand ... preist are in catholicism .. and they dont know the bible for what it teaches as they believe in other traditions
preachers -- it all depends on the person and how long they have been in the faith for
branches of christianity .. there is one christian faith what ur speaking of is denomination i believe .. they all have different ways of understand according their own methods
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d preachers and preist are not the same as learned scolors and teachers of the faith, infact most preists and preachers only have a meer understanding ... and can not answer as they do not study the faith in the manner is meant to be done
and what i say is biblical answer and not my own thoughts -- i always teach from the biblical data ... and not some preconcieved notion like most islamic speakers
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@followerofjesus1984 the comforter --- is the holy spirit as jesus said --- the fact that he was already there for one purpose does not discount him coming again for a longer purpose
here is the fact Jesus rose bodily from the grave by the power o the spirit of God and was with them for 40 days while jesus was there -- once he returned ... the spirit descended upon the belivers of christ to build up the church of christ
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
the reason you do not accept what i say is cause want to believe false teaching of islam for what jesus said ... the comforter .. the holy spirit
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d well thats rather subjective .. some christians know others dont, and i know my faith
and so do many others i know
and just because some muslims are smart .. it does not follow that they are right .. if the foundation is week then argument is false
and it is a proven fact --- i suggest u ask christian who are more learned than those u have asked
and john 16 is about the holy spirit
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d good .. but why are you falling for same old islamic lies about the bible?
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d well a distinction needs to be made between the religion which followed correctly then the violent surah are for today, and then muslim who are ordinary people who unfortunity are being decieved
and what you have learn about my faith biblical false and you need to read the bible for the bible
and not what they promote it to teach
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d none taken ... but as christian i have a right to let the bible speak for itself and teach what it teaches ... and u are in error on this ... the bible is clear
and islam has been falsly teaching what they believe it teaches and what it actually says
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d well .. its not a ghost .. it is the holy spirit of God , and God himself... so yes he does speak acts 13 demonstrate this
and it is said in john 3 times in john 7, john 14 and john 20 -- that it is the holy spirit
again where is the comparison of heaven to a caved ... the spirit was with the father and jesus and the spirit was poured out on the disciple and the believer at penicost in acts 1
and it was jesus teaching and the other new testament teachings he revealed
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d im not denying that, all im saying is that john chps. 14 -16 are discribing what the holy spirit will do in the church
now your making claims of it being a prophecy when it is not prophecy .. it a detail promise in regards to old testament prophecy on the holy spirit
what your doing is ripping apart the promise and making muhammad fit it when he does not --- the bible declair it is the holy spirit
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d the fact that doesnt make sense it is a big sign .... that you do not understand what the bible teach and do not respect it .... your belief are drummed into to you till you see the thing your told
now the fact the spirit has been active in the world since the beginning does not mean that he does not and can not have more defined role in my faith,
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@followerofjesus1984 and fact that jesus actually tells us whom the comforter is in most of the passage of the 6 in john indicates that this is all speaking of one entity .. and that is the holy spirit
he had one role in giving life to christ in mary. and john in elizabeth ... and this show one side to his divine nature, as the origanater of life, but in the disciple he came for a completely different task which is also through all christians to build up the church ..
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
and bring christs teaching to us in the bible
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d that is the point you are stating what you believe ... but i am sticking with what the bible teaches ... as the holy spirit is taught through this passages ...
it is discribing two different acts of the holy spirit .. and not a man like ur taught Jesus had to God for the spirit was in him, Jesus whent and the holu spirit .. the comforter came to live in the disciple as all the text teach .. and im not teaching what i believe im teaching what bible firmly declares
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
so dont distort the text and impose islamic thought that have no basis
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever. 17 He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn't see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you john 14 :16 -17
here we have the first part of the promise .. of the holy spirit and he is said that he was there but would come into the disciples .. there all about the holy spirit
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d no the context is the key .. and not a single word but more to the point --- to you is the key as it tells us whom jesus was speaking to and telling it was going to come too
wow .. the fact the holy spirit was there changes nothing
they are two separate acts of the holy spirit .. to bring the messiah and the baptist into the world --- but the spirit would come a second time for a longer duration .. to establish the church and build the church
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d again ur ignoring what the text say .... it says nothing about the comforter being a human being .. but the holy spirit
the disciple knew they holy spirit as he was already ther in jesus but jesus had to go away in order for him to com and dwell in the disciples
and the point is Jesus speaking to the disciples in the context allude too .. "he will come to you" so u have distroyed this argument by given the full text
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d well we have no place to say ... but the bible is clear the comforter is not a prophet but is God the holy spirit and not a human being this is my point ... john 14 :16 -17 , john 14 :26 and 15 :26 and 16 :5 -16 is about Gods holy spirit
the bible excludes a humanbeing by saying the holy spirit --- the passages are references to the holy spirit
so who are muslims to tell me and any christian that these are about muhammad when jesus said who it is and when he would come
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d did the disciple have to wait 2 months or 600 years after the disciple had long gone
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d no its not my beliefs nor is it in the bible .. it is islamic blunders of thinking that john 16 mention muhammad
when it doesnt .... this is about the holyspirit ... that is my belief and the consistant testamony which jesus gave
i am a christian and i believe what jesus said i just dont believe what islam perverts it to say ... muhammad is not in the passages on the holy spirit john 16 ... says the comforter will not comeunto you .. speaking of who ... the disciples
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d dont try to read your beliefs into the bible cause it does not work
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d the second and third 1 is a personal testamony which an abbriviated account, the other is in fronted of the court and therefore he adds additional information which will help the listener understand more, this is a common practice for any one who write historical and / or ordinary literature .. and since God works through mans experieces and through their abilities .. it is highly plausible
and know jesus was speaking of the holy spirit not muhammad ..
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d 1 --- 1 corinthian is what your refering to ... but even so how do u know jesus had long har for one, and why are you reading into the text thing which not there "he curses jesus christ for having long hair" so nice try with dawah tactic .. its does not work .. all your doing is making yourself look like a fool
everytime he talked about the jorney to demascus he changed it , no not at all ---- passage one is from lukes prespective the writer of acts,
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d jesus and long hair ... are u basing this on the holy wood depiction which is not true ... no one know what was like in paerson and it is not relivent, so this an argument from silence
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d on ur trinity theory ... paul never invented it, infact this was a divinely reveal doctrine from God of his nature ... even the old testament attests to it in many way like in isaiah 48 :15-17 and was confirmed in the incarnation of jesus to its fullest understanding
the word trinity was a word which was used to discribe and define a biblical truth
paul never saw jesus true enogh, but neither did muhammad so ur point is not relivent -- paul cursed jesus for having long hair
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
@m3talizkewld00d strange teaching .. u have commited shirk .. by saying Jesus with God in the beginning ...
on a another point .. where this was taken from john 1 ... actually says the word was God by nature and the word became flesh in the person of Jesus christ
is the only way for some one to say who they are to come forth and say i am God ...this is just a low move ... as i am .. is Gods mean it means yahweh and jesus claims it... he also claims the divine attributes
followerofjesus1984 5 months ago
this man knows more than the pope if your muslim say tabarakallah if your christian may the god of jesus the one true god guide you like our brother :)
ajhersi 1 year ago
muhammad say best forgive from ask allah not people
lahij 1 year ago
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According to quran : Jesus' mother virgin Mary is sister of omran,but mother of the Jesus virgin Mary dose not have brother by name omran.because quran mix up between moses and jesus families,because moses has sister by name mary,too and brother by name omran,mean mary (sister of moses) also sister of omran.the different between two marys 5000 years.that tell us about the huge mistakes in quran and there are many,mean quran is not from God,because words of God has no mistakes.
m3c1g3 1 year ago
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@m3c1g3
Watch this video:
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AllahisJesusLord 1 year ago
@m3c1g3
Brother in islam, prophet Muhammed called jesus and moses his brothers because they were close to him
muslim2theend 1 year ago
i said some mean things to muslems on here one day iam sorry and repent before the lord God of Issac and Jacob& Moses and my lord and saviour jesus christ i do not repent of my faith in Jesus but i am sorry to deen and muslims for my behaviourand how i spoke to you please forgive me.... in christ -steven
MrBingo9er 1 year ago
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followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
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TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
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TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
"No reason to outline this"? ofcourse there is a reason to outline this. God (according to christianity) is sending his 'Son', THERE IS EVERY REASON TO MENTION THIS. He took the time to mention a king, messenger, prophet, priest, son of man, e.t.c but no need to mention 'SON'?
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
Or any other book before the coming of Jesus (pbuh)
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
It's not about what the jews knew. It's about what God himself revealed in the Torah. There is no mention of God sending his 'SON' to earth.
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
john 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
@TheAriiiiii look what ur asking for is not going to happen cause jesus was not in the old testestament as a person, but the 2nd person who took on flesh and became jesus was ---- so when asking for a verse where jesus said he is the son of God is a feeble attempt, why isnt it good to have passage in the new testament, where God said he was, jesus said he was, the angel said he was, the devil said he was, evil demonic spirit said he was, john the baptist said he was, and the disciples
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
Notice in the verses that God is reffered to as LORD and jesus is Lord, just like the Lords and ladies on this planet today. (pbuh)
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
Look i don't want to offend you or your beliefs but we as servants of the Creator cannot assume anything. It just seems very unlikely that God would send his own SON to this planet and not tell anyone about his arrival (before his arrival) The jews foretold him by many many names but never as the 'SON OF GOD'. This concept of Jesus (pbuh) being the 'SON OF GOD' came after his death and not during his life or before his coming.
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
(Deut 17:15) calls him King (18)king (psalms 2)king (pslams 23) doesn't even mention Jesus pbuh (psalms 110) priest (isaiah 53)arm of the LORD (isaiah 9) woderful, counselor, everlasting father, prince of peace, zeal of the lord (isaiah 42)servant (isaiah 49)nothing (isa 61)spirit of the sovereign LORD (jer 23- 1)nothing (jer 23-4)nothing (jer 23-5-8) king/nothing (jer 31-40) nothing (dan 9 20-27) anointed one (dan 7 9-14) SON OF MAN (dan10 1-9) nothing (mal 2-17) nothing (mal 3 1-6) messenger.
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
@TheAriiiiii wel actually tey all tell us about Jesus, u have gone completelyissed thepoint of the passages, his a king, a prophet and a priest, but they are all about jesus, just read them and let them tell you --- each and every vesr i gave is about my lord coming --- and this is a fact
deut 17:15 and 18: 15-22, isabout him being a king and a prophet, and his earthly mission,psalms 2, 22,23 are in reflection to cetain aspects --- 22 is the psalm qouted at the crucifixion,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 psalms 110 is a bout 2 of the 3 major rol he would fulfill, isaiah 9, 11, 42, 49,53, 61 are propecies around his life at different point
isa 9 prince of peace is a name or title referece to him, isa 11 the davidic king is bout him for he is a descendant of david, isa 42the servents mission, he became a servent to give life for a ransom, isa 49 the servent bring salvation ---- this i what jesus brought through believing in hi we are saved, and by his blood we redeemed
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 So based on the evidence that the jews called Jesus (pbuh) every worthy name and NEVER NEVER EVER called him or reffered to him as the 'SON OF GOD'
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
@TheAriiiiii the jews did nt have ful knowledge, but jusus knows who he is
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@TheAriiiiii the incarnation happened long after all the old testament was complete, therefore had no reason to out line this until the time was right
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I'm not looking for a verse where Jesus (pbuh) says he is the son of God. I want to see a verse where God says Jesus(pbuh) is his Son (in the old testement) and God is sending his son to earth to correct he sinners or something similar. God took the time to call him by many names in the old testement but never as his own Son. which proves everything i'm trying to prove. One just has to be logical and honest to himself to see what i'm proving is true.
TheAriiiiii 1 year ago
@TheAriiiiii as i said the old testment was complete 400 year before jesus coming, and there is no direct reference in the old testament, as jesus was not in the times of the old covenant --- but in the incarnation, this is the first time jesus was known, of cours the divine nature pre - existed but not as jesus but as the eternal son.... and if u read isaiah 9 fo a child will be born to us, a son will be giving to us, showing that he was a man of two natures,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 while the human side was created, the divine side is and was eternal
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
If we accept Jesus (AS) was put on the cross there is a clue in the Bible that Jesus (AS) was miraculously lifted to Heaven while alive. According to the Bible Jesus (AS) "died" within 6 hours though the average person lasted 3 days on the cross (so did "God" not want to "suffer" up to the average amount?) The Bible goes on to say his "death" the same evening surprises Pilate given the average person lasted 3 days.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn actually let jesus say the beatings, the fact he had nail inbedded in bth his hand and feet, really sheds light on it, and he had spear driven through his torso too
and he have up his spirit , he has the Choose to do it, to end this line,
and jesus tells the purpose of the crucifixtion many times, read mathew 20 : 28, john 3 : 16, just to find this out
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Nowhere in the Bible Jesus (AS) says he is God in the flesh, or that his blood would forgive everyone's sins. God in the flesh, how is it different from Roman, Greek, Hindu gods? God in the flesh, means he ate, drank, urinated, defecated, passed gas. How do you conceive of a god who needs to take a break for a dump? Its pagan. Has nothing to do with God's Truth. Muslims believe God is very real, and not a man made idea.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn 1 if u say the bible know where states that Jesus is God in the flesh, and no where did i even say such a thing, but to make it clear that u have never read the bible cos john 1 : 1 - 14, philippians 2 : 6 - 11 both affirm this
2 if u feel ur lack of reading the bible is clear warrent in saying no where does say that Jesus died for our sins and his blood cleanses us of sin a matthew 20 : 20 - 28, john 3 : 16 - 17, john 1 : 29, romans 3 : 21- 31, hebrews 10 : 1 18
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn the main difference is that they all were men Gods, and yeshua is the God man, he already exsisted before everything came to be,
how do u concieve a God who never once cares even the slightest to show his love, before asking u to do it first, ours showed in the sign of Given his son as an offering, so i have no problem with him growing tired, need to eat, sleep , and drink and so forth, this is problem to u cause ur god never cared to do a thing like this ?
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 You wrote nowhere Jesus says he is god in the flesh yet you also wrote you believe that he is god in flesh. This is contradiction, something is not true. Christianity basic belief is Jesus died for everyone's sins. Again not something Jesus said.
Allah in Quran says belief cannot be force changed. It also says every person has to answer for his belief, thoughts, acts on Judgment day.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn no , pleas read carefully before misquoting me
if u say the bible know where states that Jesus is God in the flesh, and no where did i even say such a thing
eaning i was using ur words not mine
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn te bible actually tells us he is God the son and God incarnate
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I go to source. Jesus (pbuh) would not be shy to say he is God in flesh because it is issue of salvation. He did not say it, never said it. Actually he said opposite, as I confirmed myself in the Bible. In the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) said worship not him, but God the Father. It is what Islam says too. Anyone can write he is God after Jesus left the earth, does not make what was conjectured and written true.
juslkn 1 year ago
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followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
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followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
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followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Like I wrote, anyone can write anything after Jesus (pbuh) left the earth. It is illogical to take those over what Jesus (pbuh) himself said, especially when that contradicts what he said.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn same can be said about ur prophet and it has bee proven
all ur doing i argueing fro silence
the writers of the new testaen either walked withor had a personal encounter with him, and wroteunder the inspiration of the holy spirit . and all accounts are true, as they were around at the ties
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 and they been verified on any level, by history, and archeology, evn the quran vouches for it, in surah 10 : 37 & 94
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
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@followerofjesus1984 God in the flesh, read the whole new testament, and especailly john 1 : 1 - 18, john 17 1-5, johm 3 :16 - 17, colossians 1 : 15- 20, philippian 2 : 6 - 11
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
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@followerofjesus1984 and he accepts worship, from thomas, paul, john, and many others after he had risen from the grave and was in his glorious form
for thomas john 20 :24 - 17, pual in all his letter,and the conversion in acts 9 : 1 -19
john in reveations 1 : 12 - 18
and many otherworshipped even the angels worship jesus
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I could make no sense of what you wrote.
Some say they see vision of Jesus, others vision Buddha. Cannot be God's Truth. God's Truth comes clear and not confusing. Remember our existence is a test, and devil's main purpose is to mislead mankind about God. Bible says Jesus (pbuh) was tempted by the devil. But God can never be tempted by the devil. You say God in flesh urinated and defecated. You say God was beaten and killed. You believe against the Glory of God.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslknfor 2 common reasons that muslims like to imply such back handed methods like where in the bble does Jesus say he is God and worship me
the fact is before Jesus can openly say he is God, jesus must be clear on the person he is in the God head, he is the son , not the father, but even say God's personal nae to his followers in the od testament is yahweh, and in the new testament he uses this name for himself like 20 times, by its meaning of i am
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn yes he was tested by tedevil to estblish his power over all things, and thing defeated him by hisdeath,cuse that is what Jesus ame to do, offer his life as sacrifice for our sin, but then 600 yearlater tempted muhammad and on hi over surah 53 :19 -2, so dont try to sa about the devil tempting jesus, cause jesus was victoious over the devil or satan
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Again, God can never be tempted by the devil. But you say Jesus is God and was tempted by the devil. Obviously it is against the Glory of God.
Muhammad and Jesus, peace be upon them, are not God. They were men like us. God sent thousands of Prophets to all people all over the world. Muhammad (pbuh) is the last of Messengers and Prophets. No new Prophet will come after him. Jesus (pbuh) was raised alive to heaven and will return to earth one day.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn plz slow ur self, u think God is one in person, but us , we belive God s one in being but 3 in person, hilest the son wa tested, the father never was and neither the spirit, and as i said he was tested and it failed, jesus had control o it
butit was all part of te purpose so Jesus as a man could say i have wonover temptatio and ave given u a place for lifei e and u will be protected by his grace if u believe
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
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followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Muslims do not depict photo of Muhammad because we do not worship Muhammad. Muhammad (pbuh) himself forbade making his image. We honor that.
You can believe what you want to. I explained why that belief is against the Glory of God. The rest is up to you.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn no your not, ur against the very thing God said he would do in the old testament, he made it clear he was gonna enter into huanity through the son, and take the sn of the world away from us , isa 42, 49, 52: 13- 15, and 53, 63 :7 - 14 an malachi 3 :1 - 6 2 : 1 - 3 all tell of Gods plan to enter intohumanity
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 i mean 4 : 1-3
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Bible has lots of references to "sons of God". Anyone doing duty toward God, can be called "son of God". But people added begotten son for Jesus (pbuh) after he left earth, and elevated him to God. Qur'an says Jesus (pbuh) had no biological father, his mother Mary was a virgin. In a sense God was his Father. But he was not God. He was man. Like Adam was man.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn but do u understand the difference in the sons of God, and jesus being the unique son of God
sons of God ------ is through faith in God and his son jesus
son of God ------ is through the divine nature of God, the father , the son and the holy spirit are different peroson but they are the sae divine nature of God
so this son mean same as
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 i never entioned he word begotten, as i kno its not the correct term unique is more in keeping
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 had no biological father, his mother Mary was a virgin. In a sense God was his Father. But he was not God. He was man. Like Adam was man.
in a way i think there soe truth in th quran reflecting this but it does not real all the truth,
1 the purpose of the virgin birth
2 why we say he is the son of God,
3 adam was the first man, impossile for to be born to parents cause he would not be the frst an, and was created frm dust,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Jesus on the other hand --- was eternal in his divine nature and finite in his huan nature, an this is fullysupported trough the new test if its read in context
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I understand your beliefs well. I explained why fundamentally it is also against the Glory of God. God cannot be tempted by the devil in any way or shape, God does not urinate and defecate, God is not beaten and killed.
The rest is up to you.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn and i say its not, let take God love, if he created us out love, how did he know what loe was if h had no other person or object to channel it through
it would be ashe a if he created us out of selfishness
but our has always been three person and explain how we came to be made through love, cause love has an object
using huan rationality to understand what God is and does, is like the blind leading the blind, it cant be done
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 huans can never fully understand God but only to wha he reveals through his prophet and he revealed he is 3 person in on God head ---- so why argue
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Hindus believe in God the way you do. They say the god idol is a channel. At some time their gods were walking, talking gods. There is no difference in concept between you and them. I think some or many such "gods" were actually Prophets as God sent thousands to all people. Arabs were doing the same thing, worshiping through idols. Ka'aba the House of Worship to God built by Adam, rebuilt by Abraham was full of idols. God ordered to clear the Ka'aba of all idols.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn hindu s again, leave ur misoncepton at the door befoe comparing my veiw to theirs read and study what i believe , and wat they believe, ausethere no smalarities
1 we believe in one God, who has been revald thugh 3 persons, there is one God in may Gods, alhoug they believe in one God , they beieve in many other Gods alongside i
2 the only reasn u think its the same s cause ur lea to that ssumpion from urah 5 : 73 - 8, 116, where it seems to set ot the trinity but totally wrong
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn the kaba was built by adam, and rebuilt by abraham, wht source out side the quran or the hadits verify this , as the bibl doesnt state a thin of ths, and i have not come across anything like it, but do know one thing, the kaaba was built in th century ad, way after abrahm, infact 2000 year after, and about 3000 years after adam
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 The rock on which Abraham stood and supervised construction of Ka'ba, along with his footprints exists. In Torah, Hagar and Ishmael were sent to Paran (desert). This is Arabia according to Encyclopedia Biblica. Arabs knew about Abraham and Ismail (pbut), through oral narrations. After all they are their ancestors. Though most over time had become pagan, incorporating Abraham's God Allah, as one of important gods. Pagan Arabs followed Abraham's Haj ritual in corrupted form.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn interesting story, still no proof, abraham was long gone when the mecca was built in the 4th centry ad, apart from the hadiths , which are unreliable what proof have u got for this, as there is no eidence in the bble, or outside the quran, like history
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 it was a pagan place of worship for the centuries leading upto muhammad, and even in his life time till aound 610 ad
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Its like asking what proof someone is son of father. Arabs of Arabia are very conscious of ancestry. If Saudi marries non-Saudi they lose citizenship with few exceptions. This law is not by Quran! But an example of how Arabs take ancestry seriously. Bloodline identity was even more powerful for Arabs before Quran, so we have the answer.
PS. Muslim scholars think Makkah is mentioned in Torah, its called Bakkah. Words in Arabic can replace B with M without losing meaning.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn yet they lack real roof of muhammad being related to ismael, a best its circumstancail,as there noproof out side the religion there is oly one with his ties to ishmael and its deemed a false work
there get mary ancestory completely wrong she is not the sster of moses or aaron, but the decendant of king david and abraham,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Why would it be false? You have not proved they are not descendants. Abraham was born in Iraq, and traveled widely. You don't have greater knowledge of the people, language, bloodline than the people who always lived there. Genetic tests prove it correct anyway.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn here is no poof for him being related, i have proof, read this articale
IS MOHAMMED A DESCENDENT OF ISHMAEL?
By Dr. Rafat Amari
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I am not interested in ideological article with a question mark at its end. That question mark means it is not a proof.
PS. What happened to the Valley of Bakka? It is pilgrimage place according to Bible. How, why and when did this change?
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn actually ths isa question and the artical its self show how flawed this idea f muhammad and ismael being related, its a fantasy
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 People of middle east don't think its fantasy. They know their history, area, bloodline. They are not interested in outsider explaining something false to support his own absurd belief.
Look up Psalms 84:5-7. Bakka valley is pilgrimage place with flowing spring. It means Valley of Tears. Pilgrims cried and wept, which is true of Makkah, especially leaving the valley. You don't have to believe its Makkah. Question still is as I asked before what happened to this pilgrimage?
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn well there 2 points i fel
one the ishmael root, which was long Gone before the prophet, at least a thousand years, there no real proof out side the quran for it, just the assertion of ibn ishak, and this account has been proven as a false information
everything start out as a question in life, and u look credible sources like history, acheology and countable non biblical evidences, or non religous text to see if its reliable, and if u cant find deemable information then what?
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 the bible says many things that seem to support ur case but as u exmine them , then it comes clear that it is not what it seem, it meanion this in a psalm
1 psalms are worship and praise books, al though they contin some prophtical matials, this is not they're itended purpose with ll it say, the writer may add something, a reference to a place or a time to help him give a clear picture of what in his heart
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984
2 if it was a historical point then u could be on something, but as it is a part of psalm its not the same context, place are key to bringing the exact meaning of the purpose but tey not essentailly its main focus, rather ths psalm is about worship of the true God yahweh
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 You are saying Arabs are not descendants of Abraham and Ismail (pbut). You have no idea about bloodline, tribal lineage among Arabs. They know who is who among themselves. As a foreigner you think you know better about Arabs than Arabs themselves who always lived there. You are a joke. No serious scholar agrees with you. You are a joke because you want to support your own false religious doctrines.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn i think this ust the start ofthe thing, there is no roof and all scholor who base there faith on the bible as histor back it up, knows there o evidence ofthe claim, ibn ishak is the only record to ths and he is serious dout as thereno proof for his assertion ----- o the descendancy is not true give one source that veries it
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Whole world knows Arabs are descendants of Ismail (pbuh), except you.
catholic-resources/Bible/History-Abraham
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn the whole world, thre is no real proof
the bible does not help
read luke 3 : 7- 10
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Psalms clearly says Valley of Bakka is pilgrimage place. Stop making stuff to suit and fit your false doctrines. Pay attention to what is written. You did not answer what happened to this pilgrimage place. It existed back then. What happened to it?
Psalms 84:5-7
How blessed are those who find their strength in you,
and long to travel the roads that lead to your temple!
As they pass through the Baca Valley, He provides a spring for them
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn no it doesnt, ur misreading the context, it does not mention is a place of worship just that they pass through it
it say they make it a place ofsprings not that God makes it
itsnot a pilrimmage place just they assed through it o pilgrimmage
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 "travel the roads that lead to Your temple! As they pass through the Baca Valley"
I am not misreading context. They are traveling to God's House or Temple through the Valley.
If you cannot speak truth, you don't have right religion to begin with. Atheism, homosexual marriage, pornographic industry, gambling industry, etc all came from Christian Europe. In Saudi Arabia all banned, yet you to think it is the Muslims who have God's truth wrong. You are a JOKE.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn its not that ur misqouting the passage ur just not giving too much though upon the role of the valley as to play, it has very little to do with it, , the psalms does not incate anything to do with this place being used for worshi, they were passing through the place of worship, and zion is that place
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Zion can generally mean any promised land. IF it is in today's Israel, where is it? What happened to this place? You have NO answer!
In Psalms, to get to God's Temple, you have to pass through the valley of Bakka. How else you get there? Its pilgrimage to House of Worship. There is no misreading.
This is what God says in Qur'an:
3.96 Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah)
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn the place of destination was just out side jerusalem, mount zion the valley of balsam tree ( baka,) is on the path to the destination there fore it not a significant place
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Baca means Weeping or Tears. Google Bacavalleyministries. It says the same.
From Answer [Bible Guide], what it says:
"A valley in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Ps 84:7); perhaps another name for the valley of Rephaim. The plural Becaim is used to designate a tree."
"Perhaps another name for valley of Rephaim". Perhaps?? another name for Rephaim? Haha. It means they DON'T know what this valley is in Israel! Then it says worse nonsense. Becaim = 1 Tree. So NOT the same word!
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn it can mean either weeping / tears or balsam trees
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn its not a prophecy about someone coming from here or going there but merely a conponant to illistrate te jorney to mount zion, and the how psalms 84 is about worshipping God and not a place of worship,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Ofcourse it is about worshiping God. But it is talking of a place to which they traveled. Its not a prophecy. Abraham built House of Worship and many traveled to it for pilgrimage. It was place of pilgrimage even when the House of Worship became desecrated with idols and false gods.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn but the valley is not the destination its just apat the root to getting there as the passge clear indicates, it has nothing to do with mecca, its outsde jerusalem and not near mecca
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 the term Baca in Hebrew means either "weeping" or "balsam trees." Hence, the valley of Baca can be translated as the valley of balsam trees. We find reference to such a place located within the Valley of Rephaim, an area approximately 3-4 miles south and west of Jerusalem:
this place in question is north en israel and not in arabia
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Didnt you read, there is NO valley called Bakka near Jerusalem. They think perhaps it is valley of Raphaim. So they are GUESSING.
Then they say Bacaim means Tree. So Baca means what? That did not make sense. If they got it wrong and meant Bacaim is plural and means Trees. I know enough Arabic to know that Bacaim would designate plural. So then baca means one tree. A valley has one tree?! Haha. Its nonsense.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn even so r still stretching ue self cause th valley is only apart of the journey and is used to high light apartyof the psalma, it has no reference to islam, just, apart of te expression in the songs or poem, the important part is muntzion as inthat day it was the holy place, so its not a prophecy of any kind
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Prophets Abraham, Isaac, Ismail, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus, and all other Prophets are part of Islam.
As I said before it is not a prophecy. There were those who made pilgrimage to the House of Worship as it says. It was not in a populated place. At the time it would be known only by its valley name. The valley was part of the journey, absolutely. But you do not know what this pilgrimage is and where it is. You are guessing.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn yea i know ur prophets but the biblical one deffinatelt are not, they never head of it, they word dedicated to yahwah, the true God, and Jesus is alsoa king and a preist and the son of God, he exsisted before all the prophet, he is God incarnate, nothing u say is the truth
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 To suit and fit your belief, you say whats written in the Psalms is not a real place. This is not logical.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn now ur misqouting me, i know its a real place other it would not say it, but what i was making clear is the place was only used to amplify the writes intention behind the whole psalm, its about worshipping God, not neccasarily a place
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Psalms says its a valley, naming it, talks about road and travel. You made it up to be metaphorical to suit yourself. Not the only logical problem as I have mentioned. The biggest of course is who was Jesus (pbuh) worshiping in the Temple? Himself? Three in one, one in three? No, he was worshiping God the Father. That is who we worship. It is the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Muhammad, and all Prophets. It is the truth.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn now ur putting words and terms into the situation, i never said or ment metaphorically, i meant that even tho' its a place, the useage in thepsalm is not directly linked to any particular time, but is used to extract the feeling in which david the write was trying to imploy in the poem,
so dont make this a war between u and i, who is right or wrong, cause in this case the poem should speak for its own purpoee and not have a completely unrelated theme adapted to it
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn who was worshipping who?
davis was worshipping Godthe father yes, and why u say father when allah says he is a father to no one
the truth is that u should read luke 3 7 - 10,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I am Muslim because I am lover of truth (and justice). It is not a war, its not personal. Also you've not insulted God, Qur'an, any Prophet.
"the psalm is not directly linked to any particular time, but is used to extract the feeling"
I can't understand what this means.
PS> Allah has no begotten son, but for the people Jesus (pbuh) certainly could refer to Allah as the Father as he had no biological father. In the Bible he also says worship God (the Father), not him.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn r a muslim who loves truth, yet misqoute the bible and me, oh well
hat i said is that although the valley is place, the useage of it in the psalms to essensuate a pitcular feelin of the poems intenton, the witer lovs yahwenh and in the poem in the psalm, he is just using different things to elivate his love
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984
i thinkur misinformed slightly to what is meant by the term God's son, its notbecause he was born of a virgin, but because he is the eternal son, that exsised before all creation
where in the bible does he say this ----- give on example of him sayng do not worship him but only the father
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I did not misquote you. You say its not a place, but to capture feeling. I could make no sense of this explanation. To your belief, to me mine.
I came across a Bible in the store, I opened it randomly. On that page itself, highlighted in red font was Jesus clearly saying to worship God the Father. I don't remember the number of verse, but I read it over five times to make sure I was reading and understanding it right.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn clearly u are misqouting me -------
i meant that, even tho' its a place, the useage in the psalm is not directly linked to any particular time, but is used to extract the feeling in which david the write was trying to imploy in the poem,
do u know what a poem consists, and that not that conists of is relivant to its subject, but is useage has a percific purpose to it subject
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 so in this psalms although it mentions a real place, date time, and so forth, it purpose of using this particullar place was only to elivte 2 things, his love for the lord and the locatin of the destination mount zion
and it reference placeto also gie indication of the disance
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 hahaha you are funny! Your explanation does not make sense. Ask some other people if you don't believe me.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn i dont need to, wati said does make perfect sence, i never said it was a place, all i said is that theuseage of the place in reference to the psalm, is clarify the disance, and to elivate his intended purpose behind the psalm
itsnot abou the valley in totl, just the useage of the place in the text ---- its not a refeence to mecca in the slightest, but a reference to the writer true inten of glorifying his creater n mount zion
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn do u know what Gospel it was in then
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 It was probably either Mark or Mathew. If I go by that store this week or next, I will try to find that Bible again assuming it is still there because it was a month ago.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I went back to the store, found King James Bible with Jesus' quotes highlighted in red, and nowhere Jesus says he is God. Quite the opposite.
Mark12:29
Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD."
He does not say your God is three in one.
Another problem and strangeness with Bible as a whole, it does not exist in the original language Jesus spoke, which is Aramic.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn ur not reading it properly, he does say he is the son of God , and God,
john 5 -19-30
john 10-22-42 --------- both say he is the son of God
and every time you see the word I am like for example in John 8 : 28 and 58 he means he is the God as God himself said the name i want tobe knon as is the great I AM
and nohs otgonna come out and say plainly that he sGd hewilsay his is by the divine name I am
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn and in mark 12 : his otethe ha --- so even on this he say love is the grat commandmenand ifGod is one in person, how can he know what love is before cration
there needs to be a plorelarity of persons in the Godhead , to express and understand what love is n order to create through it
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn the problem is it was written in greek because there was the language tht th writers spoke
and now ur lening into a big deceiving path, languages are not divine and never were only the message is
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
Jesus’ words are our ‘Bible’, called Injeel (or Evangel in English). Important to have it in original. Not having it is very mysterious. We don’t give more importance to others from which you create your doctrines. Trinity to Christmas to Easter, Christian doctrine is rooted in paganism.
You’re right we don’t need original language to get meaning. I assumed people corrupted Jesus’ words to mean he is God the Creator in flesh. But found nowhere. He worships one God, says he is son of man.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn yea ur injil ----- its very mysterious that this apparent book has not been preserved, as for ours it has we have early manuscripts dating from the first century, and there is a a science called textual critism which helps establish just how reliable the bible is and surprise surprise it 99,8 percent reliable which is the best for any work antiquity, unlike the quran which is only preseverved by word of a man, and there is no back up proof
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 then u go to the trinity, the bible proves the trinity, so there fore u have no arguement as ur quran misrepsent it, with a straw man attack, u have no clue about it
as for Christmes and easter, this yet again faulty analysis, we follow the bible and these do not have any kind of offical info, it a myth and not a real arguement,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 The words of Jesus are not in the original language yet you are saying it is 99.8% reliable. That is logical nonsense. You do not have the original. There is nothing to compare to.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn sorry but this is the weakest arguement as ur leaning towards a misconception, we dont believe that a langauge is divine, but the message and not a apart of it, but the whole thing, and transalation does not effect it,
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@juslkn we have early manuscripts to compare to, which are direct copies, and they are reliable and this has been confirmed, so ur arguement is flawed and total bogus
we have over 25000 early manuscripts that confirm the bible we have today, which go back to the first century and are reliable
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 What do you mean you have early manuscripts. The earliest ones are copies of copies five times over. But most of all the original in Aramaic does not exist. Listen to top Bible scholars, they say the same.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn yes i agree cause the new testament never was written in aramaic, but greek, and although the origanals have long gone the copied manuscripts are still in existance, and confirm todays bibles
and this comes from the sames scolors that say about the origanals not being in existance
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 You’re right we don’t need original language to get meaning. I assumed people corrupted Jesus’ words to mean he is God the Creator in flesh. But found nowhere. He worships one God, says he is son of man.
planly obvious u have not given much fort about the bible ----- the spirit is the author of the bible and all these thing are in the bible about jesus, read john one : one - forteen, john : one - five, corintians 8:6 , philippians 2;6 colossians one : 15-20
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 and thank u for admitting the bible is not corrupt, as all the new testament is jesus word whether it by him or someone else
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 The corruption is in the words of other people. Also the words of Jesus is not the same in every Bible. There are discrepancies and contradictions in details between the various Bibles. And on top of that there are obviously people who have written their own ideas and doctrines. This complete set is what you call Bible. We do not consider all Bible corrupt free. However things like Jesus saying worship one God, falling to face and worshiping God are not corrupt.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn hmm so u say but u are dishonouring ur book by saying this read surah 10; 37 and 94
discrepance, u mean scribble error this falls under varient readings,
as for contradictions, no there isnt
give me ur best one u have
mate our doctine come from the bible, and we formed in the first century ..... its not or own ideas its creeds that have been known for two thousand year, and for over more
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 I am not dishonoring Qur'an. I believe God sent His Word through Jesus (pbuh) which is called Injeel in Book form. Your doctrines maybe from the Bible but that does not mean those doctrines cannot be tested for truth. It fails the test. Example, Trinity is not something Jesus said. So I don't believe in your doctrine. I believe and love Jesus (pbuh) though, as do all Muslims.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn this inel was not what ur led to believe as one of the top kalith mention the gospel of john
and if u just read the verse i gave it vouches for the bible as being authentic
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 well if ur gonna reject the trinity based on the fact that jesus never used the word, although he taught about its concept more than once, here is the example ---- john forteen - sixteen, and if u will reject this then u must reject the shahada as the name and its concept can't be found at all in the quran, and u have a souce that difines it which in al likely hood was written between 250--300 after the prophet death
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 so u have no idea if this was a true teaching of muhammad or just something someone else said cause they wanted to elevate the prophet to the same level as God by making him a partner which by all mean fits another term and concept of shirk
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 Similarly there are misguided people who claim to be Muslims who take meaning out of context from Quran. For example, they will say God asked hypocrites to ask Muhammad (pbuh) for forgiveness, thus Muhammad (pbuh) forgives sins. But in the next verse God says even if Muhammad asks for forgiveness for them, they will not be forgiven. So their doctrine is in contradiction. But they still want to make up contradictory stuff and believe their own ideas.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn i agree there uslims whom believe excetional thing with out proof, like uhammad forgiven sin which he cn forgive all sin, ust the sin afflicted upon himself,
he was an orinay man like u and me, and it seems like some peopl however mae him into a superhuman
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 cant fogive all sin
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 There is no contradiction in Shahada. Muhammad (pbuh) is not God. There is contradiction in Christian doctrine of Trinity. Jesus did not say he is God the Creator in flesh. A guy on another board said the Disciples worshiped Jesus as God the Creator. When I asked did they say they will worship him as God after he comes out of the toilet, he was offended. If it is the truth why get offended.
juslkn 1 year ago
@juslkn i never said thee was a contrdiction,i said its a man made doctrine as there is noting in the quran about it neither by nam or nature, or its form, it only can beound in the ahadith, sahih buhkari which by all account wa written some two hundredyesr ormore after his death
no, but the spirit did, through the writer, of the books,but he did say he as and is God, and that e existed before ll things
saying ther is contradiction and not showing where this , helps me so much
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago
@followerofjesus1984 and yes the bible tells us he was worship by his dipes and folowers
in john twenty : twenty eight, in acts, in revelations,
but not only by man, by the angels in luke one : hirty five
followerofjesus1984 1 year ago