RPG Pondering: Emulating Sword & Sorcery style magic.

[gamervideos11]

Conan D20 is decent. Plus Shadowrun 2nd ed had a good magic system.

[Colossusway]

Hmm. I've been thinking Ghosts of Albion alot lately (Perhaps supplemented by some Dungeons and Zombies, additional Monster creation rules from Angel (RPG) would make a good sword and sorcery style game.

Not sure I can see myself ever running GoA using its own setting, but I can see myself using it for a regular fantasy game.

Magic is *ALWAYS* a little risky in this system though. One thing I like is anyone can cast spells. Mages quickcast some spells. (doesnt take 30s-90 min and a book).

[NgVanTay]

You said that magic is less attractive to you if you "can't use it more than X times a day without risk", but how is that worse than the "can't use it more than X times a day, period" style of static magic? You don't have to take a risk, but you have the option. The static system is just a dynamic system without the option of taking a risk and pushing past the limit.

[tetsubo57]

@NgVanTay Becuuse those taking the risk will be ahead of the power curve over those that won't take the risk. I prefer a more equatable system.

[DeepEndOfTheDicePool]

I don't think BoL was going for that, and I actually think it does what it intended, and does so brilliantly. But you bring up an interesting point about the whole old school thing. I was there too and I agree with you. I think it's all about nostalgia: it was new and cool and we were young. The fun came from that, not from the old clunky systems.

[Samwise7RPG]

Barbarians of Lemuria is the best Sword & Sorcery style flexible magic system. It just bleeds the flavor from those old pulpy stories. The requirements for the more powerful spells are quite interesting, up to and including turning into a demon yourself...

[tetsubo57]

@Samwise7RPG I've tried twice to like that system. Once with BoL & with the post-apocalyptic version. I just hated them both. I hope you enjoy them but they aren't for me.

[DeepEndOfTheDicePool]

@tetsubo57 Really. Why? I know from watching your vids that you like crunch-heavy systems because they offer consistency. Is that it, or is there something else? I'm not asking you to slam a product -- no one's labor of love should be slammed -- but I would love your take on BoL. Thanks!

[tetsubo57]

@DeepEndOfTheDicePool One reason is the whole 'old school' thing. I was there from the start. We played the early games because we had no other choice. I just think that modern games are superior. Another reason is the creator's tone. It just grates on my nerves. I find it really unprofessional. I won't review these products for that reason.

[Samwise7RPG]

@tetsubo57 Oh, I know the system isn't for you. It is just the closest thing to sword & sorcery style magic that I am aware of.

[woodwwad]

Conan has a softer style of magic from say D&D, that might be a little closer to what you are talking about here. I too dislike gambling.

[tetsubo57]

@woodwwad I know just enough about statistics to know that the house always wins...

[gummibako]

Barbarians of Lemuria... it leaves a lot up to the players' and GM's imaginations but it sure seems more magical than scientific.

[Reozul]

From what I have read the hermetic magic in ars magica works well with this. Though from your description it also seems a lot like the Gurps system you described.

[jesokingcryst]

What makes magic is the shroud of mystery that covers it. It's not really about the danger or the gamble. the more you know about magic the more you take away from it's defining characteristic. That is the main problem with a clearly defined way of how each spell works.

[tetsubo57]

@jesokingcryst I see your point. This is one of the reasons that I don't play in that pulpy style. I want magic taught at MIT. :)

[DeepEndOfTheDicePool]

@tetsubo57 the Magic Institute of Tautology? ;o)

[marvelona]

"I don't like risk, at all"

But Risk is a great game! :)

[DarthWyyrlok]

Mage: the Awakening is the only one I'm aware of, but I really enjoy it. I once played a Mage with a knack for covert transmutations; he caused all kinds of havoc without being showy about it.

[Nolinquisitor]

Mutants & Masterminds: Warriors & Warlocks. GURPS Magic at low point cost (150 points or so). Thieves World and of course FATE. I found that good superheroes rpg's can emulate several type of magic: the ones that doesn't need to replenish (no spells per day, no magic points), the ones that can be mysterious and never the same. Supers games tend to have a set list of "effects" and spells are just visual fluff. Also they encourage action that only fit into a specific mindset (i.e. no fireball).

[tetsubo57]

@Nolinquisitor I thought that W&W would great for using a S&S in a supers game. But I would never run a fantasy campaign with it. It just had the wrong feel for me.

[Nolinquisitor]

@tetsubo57 : ) That is fine. From my point of view it run fine and it is very flexible. But I also enjoy the other games as well and I understand why M&M can rebuke some peoples. I bet you would probably enjoy a game of Warlocks & Wizards as a player though. It's one of those game engine that allow the players to really express themselves and encourage creativity. I could give plenty of examples but that's beside the point. : )

[tetsubo57]

@Nolinquisitor I would most likely play a barbarian, so some of the games quirks probably wouldn't bug me. I'm rather fond of playing characters that break things.

[Nolinquisitor]

@tetsubo57 Knew it. You would appreciate the rules for extra effort, such as to double your lifting strength, to do more damage, to pull off a feat of strength (i.e. push back a ten men melee with one push), punch out minions with ease (minions who fails Toughness save are just out à la Savage Worlds), etc. You would love it. : )

[Onionkid99]

I've been working on a low magic setting where the only "instant gratification" type of magic is done through alchemy. Of course you need to brew or buy the potion first, but you can use it at any time for a boost of power or as a fire bomb.

The "real" magic is all done through ritual. It's all done by a magician doing a ritual to appease a spirit (nature spirits, ghosts, or demons) which allows them to bring forth powerful but slow-to-cast effects.

[DeepEndOfTheDicePool]

@Onionkid99 That does feel like S&S. Then comes part 2 of the question when assessing any system that's part of a game: is it fun? I suppose one should probably ask that about S&S magic in the first place. Is magic that feels like S&S anywhere near as fun as the fireball blasting kind of magic? I think so, but I love the genre and like the idea of a genre where magicians don't feel like supers who wear robes.

[Onionkid99]

@DeepEndOfTheDicePool A change of pace and flavor can be fun. S&S type sorcery could really "enchant" players who are used to sorcerers being fireball machines who can fly all the time.

Anything that makes magic feel more unique, more mysterious and more dangerous is great. But yes, fun is paramount. If my group can't stand a low magic S&S world, well, then I'd have to change it.

[relo999]

high valor can emulate that. but then agian it almost fully story based

[alokov]

Mage the Awakening has both in the form of Covert and vulgar magic respectively.

[DeepEndOfTheDicePool]

Barbarians of Lemuria is about the only system I've seen come close. But to be honest, that system is so vague and narrative that it's success comes mostly from leaving it up to the players/gm, which really just side-steps the issue, albeit elegantly.

[VoraxTranstellaris]

@DeepEndOfTheDicePool The result does feel like Sword & Sorcery more than anything else I've played so maybe this is the approach to take. BoL Legendary Edition also has nice rules for alchemy and priestly "magic".

[Webhead123]

I suggest taking a look at Barbarians of Lemuria. While it can be used to create "direct" magic effects, the system of trappings that it uses means that spellcasting is much more ritualized and the primary examples of "powerful" spells are things like conjuring up storms or causing a volcano to erupt. It may be worth a look.

Like you, I'm also not much of a risk-taker in real life. That's probably the reason why I don't mind taking risks in RPGs. "Adventuring" is not a life for modest men!

[DeepEndOfTheDicePool]

You read my post! As a big fan, I'm deeply and genuinely flattered! Thanks! And also, yes, I'm a guy.