Ray could really use these moments with TF to actually learn something and increase his appreciation for reality since he clearly thinks very little of it at present.
This was a pitiful display of what's hardly worthy of being called a conversation.
In a conversation, two people exchange ideas. You, thunderfoot, were the only one attempting that. Ray, however, was only seeking dominance in the conversation by belittling you via (pitiful attempts at) trampling you with your own logic. And each time you prove yourself right with reasoning and hone in cornering him with his faulty reasoning, quickly runs away and changes the subject. PLEASE, be more aggressive.
@Thunderf00t, I know that this has been repeated many times, but you have a tremendous amount of patience. I am a very peaceful, loving, and rational person but if Ray were interviewing me in this manner I would have ragequitted. This is not an interview... WHY DID HE HAVE CONTROL OF THE MIC? I would like to see an interview between you and him that was actually mediated. Still better than the WBC interview, though. KEEP IT UP!
TF he who holds the mic wins after editing. Its always good to post the whole video. It seems like if you want to really stump these people you have to study their offence and defense like foot ball teams do. He went down many illogical paths. After editing I am sure they will be logical to him...
Man you are so good at decimating their non sequiturs and drawing the discussion back to the crux of the matter, despite being allowed to finish a sentence barely 1/10th of the time, where most would throw their hands up in frustration. You should write a book.
So this guys gone from, "Its ok to kill a cell in the womb" to "And that's just what the Nazis did to Jews!" in about 3 seconds, that in itself sounds like he thinks Jews are on the same level as single cell organisms. Talk about stupid...
I'm glad videos like this exist to reinforce my own choice to become an Atheist. Ray and his ilk don't care what people have to think, and on the grander scale I don't think they really care about other people even if they are 'nice folk' personally.
Like all charismatic preachers, all Ray ever seeks to do is control the conversation and never produce anything actually thought provoking. He doesn't really care what you have to say. It's the same regurgitated lines over and over again, and he doesn't even compute his own words against themselves. I don't think I've ever seen Ray step outside his usual shield of words. The guy, and like many merchandising proselytizers of the same skin are nothing more than parasites.
Is Ray implieing that he never lied, nor stole or has ever lusted for a woman? He is just nuts. If i was in TF's chair i would have laughed so hard in RC's face. TF gives a lesson in patience again.
This is actually painful to watch. Ray just barrages thunderf00t with his script of rote learnt bible quotes and combinations of sentences he's used a million times. "Have you ever told a lie?" etc.
Ray is like a tape recorder whereas thunderf00t is actually trying to think. Any time thunderf00t tries to ask Ray a question to challenge his script and it looks like a bit of rational debate might break out, no, Ray just interrupts with another line. "Is rape wrong?", "Why?".
thunderf00t, you have to be alot more aggresive when you argue, seriously. You just let him bombard you with stupidness, and than you just try to defend yourself. Instead of being on defense, you have to be on the offense
@9:57 Actually criminal courts do take into account your background and the circumstances of the crime when determining sentence. Again you're full of crap.
@8:13 Ray, If Jesus took the punishment for our sins, and the penalty for sin is eternal death in the lake of fire, why is Jesus not still burning in hell? God decided that Jesus should merely suffer crucifixion and remain dead for three days, and this pays God's penalty for sin for everyone? And then the non believer has to suffer eternal torment of burning to death because of a simple lie or some other bullshit? You're full of it!
This just shows how one sided people like Ray are. There is only one right way of living and no other exceptions. that's why ray, unlike you, cant process the thought of many different explanations for something
i hate how thunderfoot will try to rationalize and justify everything.. i bet he would have a rationalization for evil things like child porn. He slicks, squirms and tried to throw up dust to avoid giving a straight answer. sad
@TheZimstar Or, you could realize that Comfort's trying to oversimplify complicated moral matters in order to walk TF into the trap Comfort has spent years devising. You do realize he has a whole video series where he traps people like this, don't you?.
@alphaenemy i caould have givven you a smart as$ answer like" What if you stop over complicating things and stop assuming that nothing in this world can be answered with a simple yes or no."
listen, are these issues complicated? yes! these are complicated issues, but when we get to a point were we do not take a stand, always slicking away and not giving a definite answer then we can no longer talk as adults.
@TheZimstar I don't see how your argument gets to that conclusion, that we cannot talk as adults, nor do I think that TF is "slicking away" the question. Ray doctored his questions in a specific way. The questions would have merit if Ray phrased them in an honest fashion, but his intent is not to come to an understanding. Ray already insists he understands and insists that anyone who opposes does not. That's dishonest, and TF responds with getting into the gray area Ray avoids.
@alphaenemy i do realize Ray uses his methods i some other videos, but trapping thunderf00t? how is he trapping him? by asking simple yes/no questions? pliz! but i do see where u are coming from because Ray is a bold man and does not shy away from anyone, he will press for an answer, & for some people, his bold, ( almost in your face) approach may create a sense of defensiveness.
anyways Ray is not "over simplifying" anything, on the contrary, he is simply communicating clearly & effectively!
@TheZimstar Oh please, he asks the same questions of kids on the street in that one stupid abortion video of his. He lures them into answering yes/no questions and they do it because they're clearly not on an intellectual enough level to respond with substance (nor would Ray like them to). These all lead to his big "gotcha" abortion question. It's akin to cold reading. P.T. Barnum would be most proud. Then ashamed.
I love these videos, please do more with this guy. Nothing he says is intellectually valuable, but it's very interesting to see the tactics in his lines of questioning and responses to well-thought, logical answers. It's great that he lets you speak and listens to your point of view, and can debate like a normal human being (granted, one with the mindset of a child, but he isn't just preaching).
I personally think that you should have debated him scientifically. Using the Bible to debunk his points isn't going to work because he has read it countless times over no doubt.
As for abortion, I believe that life starts when brain activity begins. I believe that is at 50 days of pregnancy.
It is not ok to abort when the spirit entered the body. This happens maybe several hours before actual birth. But of course Thundef00t don't believe in souls and Ray don't believe in pre-existing thereof. So they are both wrong
I know you can debate better than this or at least hope you can he used the door in the face method and did it as if he never told a lie and then you read the bible and he started a long sales pitch giving no empirical evidence for his claims allthough I'll give it to you for not punching him
Guv I love you to death, but wow if this is representative of your overall ability to debate, please stop for the good of the cause. Everyone I have seen debate Comfort wrecks him, this man... this is painful man...
Tfoot, I love you man, but Ray can't be debated in this way. He is stuck in performance mode, it's what he does. Knowledge is a weapon, indeed. But you're bringing a lance to a knife fight in a phone booth! People like Ray don't think critically, as it's a virtue to think as a child when it comes to their god/religion. Stellar effort, I heard your points, but when Ray has this degree of control over the path of the conversation, it inevitably turns in to one big infomercial for his garbage.
tf00t: "...if a woman has a FERTILIZED EMBRYO, and it doesn't implant, is she then guilty of manslaughter?"
Ray: "No - Because when the sperm mm-mm-mmmeets the ovakdfjbhdkfjbkfh (unintelligible) that-it-that-its...blood is sparked and that is life...conception, I'm talking about, not preconception. SO..." Uhhhhhh...so does Ray not know what a fertilized embryo is, and how it got that way???
Look at Ray with the gear in Thunderf00t's face and not letting him get a word in edgeways and Thunderf00t listens to him and responds in turn with a camera respectfully placed to give fair aspect.
Ray is just a cheap and nasty salesman of bad ideas.
I like thundef00ts videos, but this was a waste of time. Why bother talking to Ray Comfort? Who cares? Ray's simply cashing in on thunderf00ts internet fame.
The point of Ray is: He wants absolutes and easy answers. Everytime thunderfoot gets into thinking, Ray interrupts and tells him: To complicated! … very christian, I guess, let others do the thinking.
@peenfluteking The only possible way that we can know anything for certain is by Divine revelation from One who knows everything. It is the Christian position that God has revealed some things to us so that we can be certain of them.
Now, your turn. How is it possible for you to know anything for certain?
Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron and Ted Haggard were all sitting in a hot tub together when one of them notices a glob of cum floating in the water. They all look at each other and Ray says "all right who farted!?"
The way I see it, right and wrong are based on whether or not they affect other people negatively or positively, example, if my friend asks me if she is gaining weight when she very much is, but i lie and tell her she is not, I'm boosting her self esteem, i'm making her feel good. Whereas if I tell her she is putting on pounds, she feels bad and it impacts her negatively. So lieing is technically not wrong depending on circumstance.
Ray asks have you looked on someone with lust because if you have you have committed adultery with her in your heart - what if you look at someone with lust who is not married but single and available? If sexual attraction was wrong, the species would die out. Also, ray is a very selfish interviewer, I am sure that is a sin.
The only thing bad about this discussion is that Ray Comfort is the moderator. He interrupts and dictates the whole thing because he's holding the mic. Although he likely would even if there were two mics. This would be amazingly improved if ThunderF00t was allowed to answer in full... and... if Ray had to answer the questions returned.
Judge: Dont worry someone paid your fine thousands of years ago
Me: I dont believe you
Judge: Well that makes the fine null and void, let me show you to the pit of fire that somehow doesent burn you up but still makes you feel excruciating pain
First I would like to make an apology, I am sorry on the behalf of all New Zealanders that somehow we have inflicted such a narrow minded individual on the world. He was a lousy interviewer, questions were asked then he did not allow you to answer. He is the biggest Hippocrates I have ever seen on YouTube, I can guarantee he has lied cheated stolen and lusted after a woman ... Or man, whatever floats his boat. Once again New Zealand sends its apologies
I just want to clarify that TF skillfully answered all the questions, and turned the tables with rational responses. Even gave Ray dry mouth! Everybody should strive to be as grounded as TF and reinforced with knowledge. Can you digest and express information as well as TF? One day I hope to.
I could imaging a few New Zealanders being a tad upset you said Ray was from Australia.
He has a nice and clear NZ/USA accent
Although NZ can have all the claim they want about him. I can see why he is in the USA. This kinda creationist and merchandising will not go anywhere near as well in NZ or Aus
Thunderf00t, I'm really a fan of yours but I have to say, I was really disappointed when I watched that video. I mean you were talking about morality with Ray Comfort and have let him outsmart you with some cheap sophisms. For the average listener you kind of lost the debate! And how the hell did THAT happen. You've clearly had the better arguments but you couldn't really use them and obviously weren't as well prepared as Ray. Although he talked complete shit he seemed to be winning, wtf?
Ray was just trying to trap him into saying quotes for him.. like "I hate babies and yes I will kill them" so he can show the video to his followers and say "See look how evil he is". thunderfoot was trying to ignore the traps that he saw coming. So Ray went a head and said the quote for him - 3:45 .
WHY
why are you debating religious dogma.
Should be arguing the fact that the bible was written by superstitious ignoramuses in the bronze age AND was plagiarized from previous religions
Ray hates to have the tables turned on him when it comes to asking stupid hypothetical questions. Towards the end of the interview, when TF asks Ray a hypothetical question regarding a flat Earth, Ray tersely retorts; "OK I'll play your game..."
Ray seems to love the sound of his own voice. He couldn't even bring himself to give TF the last word, even after saying he would only seconds beforehand. What a sanctimonious blowhard.
It's so infuriating when that Ray guy doesn't let you actually answer the question - just cuts you off mid sentence, puts words in your mouth, then instantly changes the subject so you can't rebut.
Thunderf00t's ability to keep his cool was nothing short of heroic. I consider myself a Pacifist, but I think even I would have been driven to punch the guy after about 10 minutes LOL!
Was this intended to be part of the 180 Film? I don't remember seeing TF in the movie, but what I learned from this amazing interview is that there is a way to confront impossibly insoluble people like Ray Comfort, but it seems to take an extraordinary amount of intelligence and information to do so.
I love the end. Thunderfoot says: IF there is no God how does the earth know in wich way to spin. mocking the argument of Ray. And Ray just goes with it and says see it's proof god must exist :D
I think Thunderf00t realises there is no point in trying to change Ray's mind. He is using his time to come across as the rational person he is while at the same time letting Ray show the world what he is. A complete utter fool. I just don't like that Ray think's he's winning the arguments by not understanding what Thunderf00t is saying.
@fooltard He is not that impressive of a debater as he cannot function in a situation where he is not in control. The problem is that most every debate I have seen against him, the other person doesn't want to seem like a jerk and so they don't get belligerent until he answers their question. Great name by the way. Heh, love a good self burn. Shows you're a smart dude/chick who has a sense of humor.
The whole conception, life and abortion issue could've been quickly won with illustrations of how embryos are killed every day outside of abortion: Spontaneous abortion, drunk driver hitting a pregnant woman, a pregnant woman taking a hard fall on ice. After relating this, TF could've posed: Does God have a plan for a devout Christian? RC: Yes. TF: Then why did God kill that devout Christian woman's unborn child? RC: Um, um.... TF: Further, when does God establish a plan for a conceived life?
oh, i broke God's law and Jesus payed my fine, eh Ray?
well, then answer a couple of things please.
Why is anything I do even a sin then if Jesus has already made it OK?
Why do christians still need to go to confession if they were absolved?
why are you so gay for Jesus when you tout the 10 Commandments around as teh perfect law, that was given to you by the Moses, while there is the Commandment of Love that was given to you by Jesus?
God think you're a lying thievieng murdering bastard but if you say you believe in his son it won't matter.
to bring it back to your stupid court analogy that's as if a judge aquited a man who murdered innumerable men, women, children and animals just for the fun of it just for saying that he liked the judge's son.
the moment this dick went into his stupid "lieing thief" routine i wanted to crack his skull open with whatever is at hand.
i really have to wonder does he not get that that shit is really offensive to the person he's talking to or is he banking on the shock to work his mojo mumbo jumbo?
According to Ray's own argument about the war and lying being wrong, if a Nazi officer asked him if he was hiding Jews in his attic, he would have to answer "yes". That to him is the moral answer. Well I say he's wrong.
8:56 "I do good works, not to merit God's forgiveness; its because I've been forgiven."
9:18 (If there was no God, would you still do good works?) "'Course not! I'd be out surfing! I'd be living a selfish life."
It took Ray less than 30 seconds to completely go against his own words. Not only that, but he's just told us that the only reason that he does his 'good works' is because he believes there is a god.
And he has the gall to question the morals and motivations of others?
I say Ray isn't human, he is a huge step closer to a monkey than a normal human, no reason to kill him, but if we show him on tv he should be in circus or some comedy movie.. best would be behind bars in the zoo.
Thank you to both of you guys for showing us how to have an open dialogue with respect and a bit of humor. You have shown me the best of humanity in this debate. Btw - I am a Christian.
ray may think he can get away with being so dishonest since he plays the role so well, but everyone can see right through him..he may just be stupid, but i feel very certain that he's a charlatan.
I guess Thunderf00t should have listened to what Ray said. "Jesus took the punishment that [we deserve] ... Therefore, by accepting Jesus as savior, God can now """LEGALLY""" forgive us our sins". Does Ray really believe in the Biblical god for whom everything is possible?. A god that can forgive us without sacrificing his son/himself? Jesus' 3-day suffering was not so bad considering he now lives eternally blissful. It'd be better if we could live any way we choose and then suffer Jesus' fate.
Way would you give Ray comfort control of the mic?!? Every time Thunderfoot tries to give more than a yes or no answer to a complicated question, Ray comfort yanks the microphone. Completely un-watchable!
WTF does Ray mean by preconception? What a dolt! He can't even understand Tf00t's example of a fertilized egg not attaching to the uterine wall being the same as abortion. He's too simple to understand complex concepts so that's why he has an absolutists way of thinking. Most christians are as simple as he is.
@JoeyMacaroniPenguin I wholeheartedly agree! And what might be better is to have a lawyer debate Ray Comfort who can be just as underhanded and crafty in debating him. (I am a law student, so it's okay to insult lawyers, hahaha).
Ray Comfort is so annoying. All he does is interrupt and parrot his trademark bullshit. He does more to ridicule his position further than to strengthen it.
Ray did what he did in the very first debate you had with him in the studio he just keeps changing the subject and try to manipulate the conversation by skipping to a bunch of different questions when he's just really an idiot.
Until the umbilical cord is cut a fetus is just a growth in the woman, it uses all of the mothers biological functions to survive. The mother breaths for it, it uses her blood to get nutrients, and waste is filtered through and expelled from her body through her organs. Until the fetus is born it is not it's own entity.
@Couldar A fetus/baby can sustain itself outside of the womb after about...8 months or so? So until then, I don't consider a fetus a human, but a parasite. A brain doesn't grow until a fetus is 4 months old. So before that, it's not even alive but just a hump of flesh. I'd say that at the very least it's okay to abort until a brain and nervous system started to grow.
I would like to encourage everybody to support Thunderf00t who continues vociferously defending the teaching of true science against it's oppressors. It's a debt we owe to our forefathers who have established the foundations of science from which we flourish and to our children who through them this knowledge will be preserved. It would be unforgiveable to allow the compromisation of this.
This discussion can be summed up well with a Darwin quote that Thunderf00t has used before, "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
People like this are amazing debaters because they fully believe they have already won before they even allow another to make them examine their logic. They are steadfast in their views and their quick talking and incessant pressure to make their opponent answer irrelevant questions is enough to block any reasonable explanation from them before they ever get to make their point. Rational arguments are much harder to articulate than preconceived and immovable ones.
Anybody else feel that Ray Comfort argues very similarly to equally mindless Scientologists? It hurts my brain to hear the moronic rhetoric that spurts out of Ray's mouth...*face in palm*...
Ray could really use these moments with TF to actually learn something and increase his appreciation for reality since he clearly thinks very little of it at present.
MrEmpathicus 5 hours ago
Ray is so fucking Jewish
kikthatcan 9 hours ago
This was a pitiful display of what's hardly worthy of being called a conversation.
In a conversation, two people exchange ideas. You, thunderfoot, were the only one attempting that. Ray, however, was only seeking dominance in the conversation by belittling you via (pitiful attempts at) trampling you with your own logic. And each time you prove yourself right with reasoning and hone in cornering him with his faulty reasoning, quickly runs away and changes the subject. PLEASE, be more aggressive.
FleetForSpeed 2 days ago
I know it would look bad, but I wish Thunderf00t would just tell him to fuck off.
JT777 3 days ago
This guy is a total jackoff...
JT777 3 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Thunderf00t, I know that this has been repeated many times, but you have a tremendous amount of patience. I am a very peaceful, loving, and rational person but if Ray were interviewing me in this manner I would have ragequitted. This is not an interview... WHY DID HE HAVE CONTROL OF THE MIC? I would like to see an interview between you and him that was actually mediated. Still better than the WBC interview, though. KEEP IT UP!
mrtophat12 1 week ago
Comment removed
mrtophat12 1 week ago
Never do an interview with someone else in control of the microphone!! :D
Laprisamata 1 week ago
TF he who holds the mic wins after editing. Its always good to post the whole video. It seems like if you want to really stump these people you have to study their offence and defense like foot ball teams do. He went down many illogical paths. After editing I am sure they will be logical to him...
LongTimeAtheist 1 week ago
Man you are so good at decimating their non sequiturs and drawing the discussion back to the crux of the matter, despite being allowed to finish a sentence barely 1/10th of the time, where most would throw their hands up in frustration. You should write a book.
onehandontool 1 week ago
So this guys gone from, "Its ok to kill a cell in the womb" to "And that's just what the Nazis did to Jews!" in about 3 seconds, that in itself sounds like he thinks Jews are on the same level as single cell organisms. Talk about stupid...
ArecVsBush 1 week ago
lol "normal"
cerebralcereal 1 week ago
I'm glad videos like this exist to reinforce my own choice to become an Atheist. Ray and his ilk don't care what people have to think, and on the grander scale I don't think they really care about other people even if they are 'nice folk' personally.
TheGrimGary 1 week ago
Like all charismatic preachers, all Ray ever seeks to do is control the conversation and never produce anything actually thought provoking. He doesn't really care what you have to say. It's the same regurgitated lines over and over again, and he doesn't even compute his own words against themselves. I don't think I've ever seen Ray step outside his usual shield of words. The guy, and like many merchandising proselytizers of the same skin are nothing more than parasites.
TheGrimGary 1 week ago
Ray is trying to "get" Thunderf00t to say stuff. What an ass.
HighCaliberLogic 1 week ago
Is Ray implieing that he never lied, nor stole or has ever lusted for a woman? He is just nuts. If i was in TF's chair i would have laughed so hard in RC's face. TF gives a lesson in patience again.
metalmolisher666 2 weeks ago
Ray Comfort always makes me LOL. :p
bluesyrastapunkraver 2 weeks ago
Who is this Kiwi?
Let's ask questions and not wait fro answers....
Thunderfoot, you're a patient man.
I would have blown fairy dust in the fool's face and gone to McD's for a burger.
AlaooooKizmarz 2 weeks ago 2
This is actually painful to watch. Ray just barrages thunderf00t with his script of rote learnt bible quotes and combinations of sentences he's used a million times. "Have you ever told a lie?" etc.
Ray is like a tape recorder whereas thunderf00t is actually trying to think. Any time thunderf00t tries to ask Ray a question to challenge his script and it looks like a bit of rational debate might break out, no, Ray just interrupts with another line. "Is rape wrong?", "Why?".
bozeal100 2 weeks ago
thunderf00t, you have to be alot more aggresive when you argue, seriously. You just let him bombard you with stupidness, and than you just try to defend yourself. Instead of being on defense, you have to be on the offense
andriaaam 2 weeks ago
@9:57 Actually criminal courts do take into account your background and the circumstances of the crime when determining sentence. Again you're full of crap.
cff121 2 weeks ago
@8:13 Ray, If Jesus took the punishment for our sins, and the penalty for sin is eternal death in the lake of fire, why is Jesus not still burning in hell? God decided that Jesus should merely suffer crucifixion and remain dead for three days, and this pays God's penalty for sin for everyone? And then the non believer has to suffer eternal torment of burning to death because of a simple lie or some other bullshit? You're full of it!
cff121 2 weeks ago
Time for some surfing!
HellomynameisN 2 weeks ago
Wow, Ray Comfort is immoral. He does good things only because someone's watching him all the time. :)
algi80 2 weeks ago
This just shows how one sided people like Ray are. There is only one right way of living and no other exceptions. that's why ray, unlike you, cant process the thought of many different explanations for something
ladev91 2 weeks ago
Wooo Surfing xD
CptnSmash 3 weeks ago
at least he knows he's a peasent 0:09
biggsleezy 3 weeks ago 2
i can't believe i just sat and watched all this!
din80s 3 weeks ago
Ray is a Fucking child.
MrBakura91 1 month ago 2
So many Godwins.
someonenobodycares 1 month ago
Both of these guys should be should be banned from debating about religon. this is painfuly boring.
5heynen5 1 month ago
Thundefoot should be encouraged in his reading of the Bible... BUT he is making a bit of a fool of himself here
stephjh2006 1 month ago
i hate how thunderfoot will try to rationalize and justify everything.. i bet he would have a rationalization for evil things like child porn. He slicks, squirms and tried to throw up dust to avoid giving a straight answer. sad
TheZimstar 1 month ago
Comment removed
alphaenemy 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheZimstar Or, you could realize that Comfort's trying to oversimplify complicated moral matters in order to walk TF into the trap Comfort has spent years devising. You do realize he has a whole video series where he traps people like this, don't you?.
alphaenemy 1 month ago
@alphaenemy i caould have givven you a smart as$ answer like" What if you stop over complicating things and stop assuming that nothing in this world can be answered with a simple yes or no."
listen, are these issues complicated? yes! these are complicated issues, but when we get to a point were we do not take a stand, always slicking away and not giving a definite answer then we can no longer talk as adults.
TheZimstar 1 month ago
@TheZimstar I don't see how your argument gets to that conclusion, that we cannot talk as adults, nor do I think that TF is "slicking away" the question. Ray doctored his questions in a specific way. The questions would have merit if Ray phrased them in an honest fashion, but his intent is not to come to an understanding. Ray already insists he understands and insists that anyone who opposes does not. That's dishonest, and TF responds with getting into the gray area Ray avoids.
alphaenemy 1 month ago
@alphaenemy i do realize Ray uses his methods i some other videos, but trapping thunderf00t? how is he trapping him? by asking simple yes/no questions? pliz! but i do see where u are coming from because Ray is a bold man and does not shy away from anyone, he will press for an answer, & for some people, his bold, ( almost in your face) approach may create a sense of defensiveness.
anyways Ray is not "over simplifying" anything, on the contrary, he is simply communicating clearly & effectively!
TheZimstar 1 month ago
@TheZimstar Oh please, he asks the same questions of kids on the street in that one stupid abortion video of his. He lures them into answering yes/no questions and they do it because they're clearly not on an intellectual enough level to respond with substance (nor would Ray like them to). These all lead to his big "gotcha" abortion question. It's akin to cold reading. P.T. Barnum would be most proud. Then ashamed.
alphaenemy 1 month ago
look out, he is 'leading you to the lord'!
and it is ignored......
its embarrassing to be talked down to like that, most kids and adults are forced into 'accepting' due to peer pressure
pitiful, may as well be hitler's troops 'following orders' ..... same as peer pressure
bryanfunk 1 month ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
Every time i see a Ray Comfort video, i think im living groundhog day, same bullshit over and over again.
uacho 1 month ago
I love these videos, please do more with this guy. Nothing he says is intellectually valuable, but it's very interesting to see the tactics in his lines of questioning and responses to well-thought, logical answers. It's great that he lets you speak and listens to your point of view, and can debate like a normal human being (granted, one with the mindset of a child, but he isn't just preaching).
the40inchtaco 1 month ago
@the40inchtaco Edit that... at 8:00 he gets pretty preachy lol. I spoke too soon.
the40inchtaco 1 month ago
lol ray just wants to get to his speech and the other guy wont answer anything at all
lravenhill 1 month ago
when the dumb get grabby the smart grab a bible covered in post-stick-notes!
Areyourealythatdumb 1 month ago
i wanna debate with you Thunderf00t and i agree with most of your angles xD
Areyourealythatdumb 1 month ago
IS HE GOING TO LET YOU TALK
lwvok 1 month ago
I personally think that you should have debated him scientifically. Using the Bible to debunk his points isn't going to work because he has read it countless times over no doubt.
As for abortion, I believe that life starts when brain activity begins. I believe that is at 50 days of pregnancy.
I am an atheist though.
ec123456789able 2 months ago
This wasn't a debate, it was just a sales pitch. I can sum it up really.
1. Nazis killed people so is killing wrong?
2. Would you kill someone note there is no difference between killing and murder.
3. I would kill in self defense because it's different, but there is no difference for you.
4. If you ever lie even once you are a evil and going to hell
5. You now admit to it, so you don't want to believe in god because you are evil.
6. But there is a way, just believe this old story.
7. Profit.
TheDjJudasX8 2 months ago
Ray Comfort says creation needs a cause, he assumes the biblical God. Quite a fucking leap.
SuperBspb 2 months ago
"Do you like icecream?"
"yes...?"
"Ok so you support the rape of cows?"
-_- its ridiculous he uses the same pitch with everyone he needs to grow up already.
TheDreadedlife 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
It is not ok to abort when the spirit entered the body. This happens maybe several hours before actual birth. But of course Thundef00t don't believe in souls and Ray don't believe in pre-existing thereof. So they are both wrong
Sh33un 2 months ago
I know you can debate better than this or at least hope you can he used the door in the face method and did it as if he never told a lie and then you read the bible and he started a long sales pitch giving no empirical evidence for his claims allthough I'll give it to you for not punching him
nickmcV123 2 months ago
Guv I love you to death, but wow if this is representative of your overall ability to debate, please stop for the good of the cause. Everyone I have seen debate Comfort wrecks him, this man... this is painful man...
PestoPosta 2 months ago
Tfoot, I love you man, but Ray can't be debated in this way. He is stuck in performance mode, it's what he does. Knowledge is a weapon, indeed. But you're bringing a lance to a knife fight in a phone booth! People like Ray don't think critically, as it's a virtue to think as a child when it comes to their god/religion. Stellar effort, I heard your points, but when Ray has this degree of control over the path of the conversation, it inevitably turns in to one big infomercial for his garbage.
jess1681 2 months ago
tf00t: "...if a woman has a FERTILIZED EMBRYO, and it doesn't implant, is she then guilty of manslaughter?"
Ray: "No - Because when the sperm mm-mm-mmmeets the ovakdfjbhdkfjbkfh (unintelligible) that-it-that-its...blood is sparked and that is life...conception, I'm talking about, not preconception. SO..." Uhhhhhh...so does Ray not know what a fertilized embryo is, and how it got that way???
jess1681 2 months ago
Look at Ray with the gear in Thunderf00t's face and not letting him get a word in edgeways and Thunderf00t listens to him and responds in turn with a camera respectfully placed to give fair aspect.
Ray is just a cheap and nasty salesman of bad ideas.
internetloevmachine 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
1:27, someone got a text. :0
RocknForJesus 2 months ago
I like thundef00ts videos, but this was a waste of time. Why bother talking to Ray Comfort? Who cares? Ray's simply cashing in on thunderf00ts internet fame.
morningstomper123 3 months ago
"I'm tryin' to pin ya down." If Thunderfoot was a woman ...
pacifiedfools 3 months ago
ThunderfOOt is way more patient then I ever could be.
tfOOt: *Reading bible*
Ray: "And god says you'll be judged and you'll burn in hell, you hearing this?"
tfOOt: "mmmmm? o yeah."
Later
Ray:"I'll give you the last word. But I'm going to bring up the last point, also, I never lie."
olelumpy 3 months ago
I’m impressed with Thunderf00t ‘s patients. Ray is such a fool.
Realityprogramming 3 months ago
You're a good sport to someone who interrupts you every time you get into something more complicated than his little brain can handle lol
mattsbo 3 months ago
The point of Ray is: He wants absolutes and easy answers. Everytime thunderfoot gets into thinking, Ray interrupts and tells him: To complicated! … very christian, I guess, let others do the thinking.
alkoron 3 months ago
@alkoron You hit the nail on the head there, my friend.
PERSONIFICATIONOFYAY 3 months ago
@alkoron Ray doesn't know how to think - that’s why he's a Christian. It's much simpler than reality really. I Think that’s why it’s so popular.
Realityprogramming 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@peenfluteking The only possible way that we can know anything for certain is by Divine revelation from One who knows everything. It is the Christian position that God has revealed some things to us so that we can be certain of them.
Now, your turn. How is it possible for you to know anything for certain?
dmarvin811 3 months ago
The first upload by thunderfoot worth watching. Very telling interview!
9pt9 3 months ago
15:55 "we are unique among the animals...." freudian slip Ray? lol
spinynorman1982 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron and Ted Haggard were all sitting in a hot tub together when one of them notices a glob of cum floating in the water. They all look at each other and Ray says "all right who farted!?"
fwrc1666 3 months ago
"I'm trying to get you to say that it's ok to kill that baby"
Tf00t: .... Does your mom know you are this stupid?
tf00t: "If god doesn't exist would you do good?
him: "No! =D"
tf00t: "ô___ô (You sir are pathetic)"
danschaoticmind 3 months ago
I can't even finish this. Ray interrupts him every time he speaks.
batbawls 3 months ago
"every time you shower you commit mass murder"
:)
Ravensteinzh 3 months ago
I am a New Zealander and I also feel ashame after Ray said he is a Kiwi.
yiuvince 3 months ago
wow thunderf00t is dumber than I though -.-
The fact that he is on equal (ish) ground in a debate with a moron like Ray Comfort is pathetic.
LIEPANEW 3 months ago
The way I see it, right and wrong are based on whether or not they affect other people negatively or positively, example, if my friend asks me if she is gaining weight when she very much is, but i lie and tell her she is not, I'm boosting her self esteem, i'm making her feel good. Whereas if I tell her she is putting on pounds, she feels bad and it impacts her negatively. So lieing is technically not wrong depending on circumstance.
LolzAtMagicMuffins 3 months ago
Ray Comfort is a dumb fuck
spoddie 3 months ago
He's like fuckin flanders
dragsigma 4 months ago
Ray asks have you looked on someone with lust because if you have you have committed adultery with her in your heart - what if you look at someone with lust who is not married but single and available? If sexual attraction was wrong, the species would die out. Also, ray is a very selfish interviewer, I am sure that is a sin.
bagospannerz 4 months ago
The only thing bad about this discussion is that Ray Comfort is the moderator. He interrupts and dictates the whole thing because he's holding the mic. Although he likely would even if there were two mics. This would be amazingly improved if ThunderF00t was allowed to answer in full... and... if Ray had to answer the questions returned.
JDoucette 4 months ago
Imagine the situation in a court:
Judge: Dont worry someone paid your fine thousands of years ago
Me: I dont believe you
Judge: Well that makes the fine null and void, let me show you to the pit of fire that somehow doesent burn you up but still makes you feel excruciating pain
Me: ???
d007ization 4 months ago
First I would like to make an apology, I am sorry on the behalf of all New Zealanders that somehow we have inflicted such a narrow minded individual on the world. He was a lousy interviewer, questions were asked then he did not allow you to answer. He is the biggest Hippocrates I have ever seen on YouTube, I can guarantee he has lied cheated stolen and lusted after a woman ... Or man, whatever floats his boat. Once again New Zealand sends its apologies
mrtboy 4 months ago
Ray Comfort needs to be Hitch-slapped. Somebody make it happen.
MandarinTALK 4 months ago
I just want to clarify that TF skillfully answered all the questions, and turned the tables with rational responses. Even gave Ray dry mouth! Everybody should strive to be as grounded as TF and reinforced with knowledge. Can you digest and express information as well as TF? One day I hope to.
spinynorman1982 4 months ago
I could imaging a few New Zealanders being a tad upset you said Ray was from Australia.
He has a nice and clear NZ/USA accent
Although NZ can have all the claim they want about him. I can see why he is in the USA. This kinda creationist and merchandising will not go anywhere near as well in NZ or Aus
seanet1310 4 months ago
Thunderf00t, I'm really a fan of yours but I have to say, I was really disappointed when I watched that video. I mean you were talking about morality with Ray Comfort and have let him outsmart you with some cheap sophisms. For the average listener you kind of lost the debate! And how the hell did THAT happen. You've clearly had the better arguments but you couldn't really use them and obviously weren't as well prepared as Ray. Although he talked complete shit he seemed to be winning, wtf?
37371221 4 months ago
This guy deals in nothing but absolutes.
DeathBecomesYou702 4 months ago
This isn't a discussion. This is a goddamned sales pitch to someone too polite to tell the salesman to fuck off.
Klokhand 4 months ago 29
@Klokhand LOL perfectly summarized.
ktrigg2 1 month ago
Funny quote I read on youtube
"Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon who knocks the pieces down, shits on the board and flies away claiming victory"
Mapnapkin 4 months ago 16
@Mapnapkin funny as in moronic???
stephjh2006 1 month ago
Ray was just trying to trap him into saying quotes for him.. like "I hate babies and yes I will kill them" so he can show the video to his followers and say "See look how evil he is". thunderfoot was trying to ignore the traps that he saw coming. So Ray went a head and said the quote for him - 3:45 .
WHY
why are you debating religious dogma.
Should be arguing the fact that the bible was written by superstitious ignoramuses in the bronze age AND was plagiarized from previous religions
Mapnapkin 4 months ago
Really good debate!
jock150 4 months ago
If there is a god he'd hate to have that sniveling snake like rat being his spokesman, and Jesus would say "omg dad wtf"
kraqore79 4 months ago
Ray hates to have the tables turned on him when it comes to asking stupid hypothetical questions. Towards the end of the interview, when TF asks Ray a hypothetical question regarding a flat Earth, Ray tersely retorts; "OK I'll play your game..."
Ray seems to love the sound of his own voice. He couldn't even bring himself to give TF the last word, even after saying he would only seconds beforehand. What a sanctimonious blowhard.
dingodavid 4 months ago
Ray Comfort is certainly a class act: "Stop trying to read the Bible while I'm preaching at you, you lying, thieving, dirty atheist!"
LOL
dingodavid 4 months ago
Man! I'm exhausted after watching this!
It's so infuriating when that Ray guy doesn't let you actually answer the question - just cuts you off mid sentence, puts words in your mouth, then instantly changes the subject so you can't rebut.
Thunderf00t's ability to keep his cool was nothing short of heroic. I consider myself a Pacifist, but I think even I would have been driven to punch the guy after about 10 minutes LOL!
ricksfiverr 4 months ago
Was this intended to be part of the 180 Film? I don't remember seeing TF in the movie, but what I learned from this amazing interview is that there is a way to confront impossibly insoluble people like Ray Comfort, but it seems to take an extraordinary amount of intelligence and information to do so.
spinynorman1982 4 months ago
I love the end. Thunderfoot says: IF there is no God how does the earth know in wich way to spin. mocking the argument of Ray. And Ray just goes with it and says see it's proof god must exist :D
Tutterkop 4 months ago
haha "I'm jewish". Akwaaaard :D
Tutterkop 4 months ago
I love how he many times, when he's seemingly frustrated, admits what he's trying to get TF to say and how he would have compared that to Hitler.
Too bad he never actually said those things.
claxor 4 months ago
Comment removed
gp0d 4 months ago
I think Thunderf00t realises there is no point in trying to change Ray's mind. He is using his time to come across as the rational person he is while at the same time letting Ray show the world what he is. A complete utter fool. I just don't like that Ray think's he's winning the arguments by not understanding what Thunderf00t is saying.
gp0d 4 months ago
He's a Jew that believe in jesus? Does that make him a jew for jesus?
kronosx7 4 months ago
@fooltard He is not that impressive of a debater as he cannot function in a situation where he is not in control. The problem is that most every debate I have seen against him, the other person doesn't want to seem like a jerk and so they don't get belligerent until he answers their question. Great name by the way. Heh, love a good self burn. Shows you're a smart dude/chick who has a sense of humor.
PseudoTinGod 4 months ago
Next interview... DO NOT LET RAY CONTROL THE MIC! Either TF control it, have two mics, or a center mic.
BigMTBrain 4 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
The whole conception, life and abortion issue could've been quickly won with illustrations of how embryos are killed every day outside of abortion: Spontaneous abortion, drunk driver hitting a pregnant woman, a pregnant woman taking a hard fall on ice. After relating this, TF could've posed: Does God have a plan for a devout Christian? RC: Yes. TF: Then why did God kill that devout Christian woman's unborn child? RC: Um, um.... TF: Further, when does God establish a plan for a conceived life?
BigMTBrain 4 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
@2:25 - Quite bizarre... I think Ray has learned that somehow TF can be easily duped:
TF: If a woman has a FERTILIZED EMBRYO, and it doesn't implant, is she then guilty of manslaughter?
RC: NO!
TF: Why not?
RC: Because it's when the sperm meets the ovum, that's when [???] is sparked, and it's life. CONCEPTION, I'm talking about, not pre-conception.
TF: OK.
RC: (rushing to next question) So, ...
WHAT? Hahaha... What happened? TF didn't call him on that. Bizarre.
BigMTBrain 4 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
tf00t: "Hypothetical: if God doesn't exist, would you do good?"
Ray: "No!"
tf00t: ._.
TheManAloneChannel 4 months ago 16
oh, i broke God's law and Jesus payed my fine, eh Ray?
well, then answer a couple of things please.
Why is anything I do even a sin then if Jesus has already made it OK?
Why do christians still need to go to confession if they were absolved?
why are you so gay for Jesus when you tout the 10 Commandments around as teh perfect law, that was given to you by the Moses, while there is the Commandment of Love that was given to you by Jesus?
MatoVuc 4 months ago
nice pitch there ray:
God think you're a lying thievieng murdering bastard but if you say you believe in his son it won't matter.
to bring it back to your stupid court analogy that's as if a judge aquited a man who murdered innumerable men, women, children and animals just for the fun of it just for saying that he liked the judge's son.
MatoVuc 4 months ago
the moment this dick went into his stupid "lieing thief" routine i wanted to crack his skull open with whatever is at hand.
i really have to wonder does he not get that that shit is really offensive to the person he's talking to or is he banking on the shock to work his mojo mumbo jumbo?
MatoVuc 4 months ago
Well... at least he isn't Margie.
Octoschizare 5 months ago
According to Ray's own argument about the war and lying being wrong, if a Nazi officer asked him if he was hiding Jews in his attic, he would have to answer "yes". That to him is the moral answer. Well I say he's wrong.
pezzamange 5 months ago
Hey Thunderf00t, do you not find it tedious having a "discussion" with someone who simply is incapable of listening to you?
DaToNyOyO 5 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
This has been flagged as spam show
Jesus Christ is Lord
SterlingUliso 5 months ago
@SterlingUliso and satan is his prophet
OrnluWolfjarl 4 months ago
Ray still fails to consider that even if an intelligent creator exists that it might not be Yahweh
LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 5 months ago
@Vapethis first thing i dont have a problem with people thats based on race, religion, nationality etc
second theres tons of evidence to back up evolution
how much evidence is there that backs up a all powerful being made the world and layed down the morals for good and bad etc
all I have a problem with is the one track mindset that religious zealots have
its counter productive to society
barneysixx 5 months ago
8:56 "I do good works, not to merit God's forgiveness; its because I've been forgiven."
9:18 (If there was no God, would you still do good works?) "'Course not! I'd be out surfing! I'd be living a selfish life."
It took Ray less than 30 seconds to completely go against his own words. Not only that, but he's just told us that the only reason that he does his 'good works' is because he believes there is a god.
And he has the gall to question the morals and motivations of others?
GinKoyama 5 months ago 3
If he is Jewish y the fuck he is Christian
justinjiang 5 months ago
@justinjiang I'm pretty sure this guy isn't Jewish.
guitarandrums 5 months ago
I m a Buddhist....I m a atheist if u refer atheist to Christian god only...
justinjiang 5 months ago
I say Ray isn't human, he is a huge step closer to a monkey than a normal human, no reason to kill him, but if we show him on tv he should be in circus or some comedy movie.. best would be behind bars in the zoo.
realbojay 5 months ago
@realbojay holding a banana
OrnluWolfjarl 4 months ago
DAMN THIS FOOL MORALITY ISN'T BLACK AND WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!
trueChaos23 5 months ago
Thank you to both of you guys for showing us how to have an open dialogue with respect and a bit of humor. You have shown me the best of humanity in this debate. Btw - I am a Christian.
JeffPokorny 5 months ago
I would've owned Ray Comfort way more than Thunderfoot did. In this interview it seems like Ray OWNed Thunderfoot.
atheistram 5 months ago
Tch. I tire of how Comfort keeps repeating "So, give me a Yes or No!".
Morality isn't black and white like that. When will this infantile fool learn that? Never.
MattHunX 5 months ago
You are a saint, thunderfoot! There is no other explanation for you not punching that idiot in the face!
SonicTheEggNog 5 months ago
Debating rationality with a creationist is like explaining astrophysics to an infant.
Serostern 5 months ago
next time, you hold the mic. This little troll is having way too much fun pulling the mic back and forth.
setsallset 5 months ago
ray may think he can get away with being so dishonest since he plays the role so well, but everyone can see right through him..he may just be stupid, but i feel very certain that he's a charlatan.
itzahazylife 5 months ago
I guess Thunderf00t should have listened to what Ray said. "Jesus took the punishment that [we deserve] ... Therefore, by accepting Jesus as savior, God can now """LEGALLY""" forgive us our sins". Does Ray really believe in the Biblical god for whom everything is possible?. A god that can forgive us without sacrificing his son/himself? Jesus' 3-day suffering was not so bad considering he now lives eternally blissful. It'd be better if we could live any way we choose and then suffer Jesus' fate.
hf003 5 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
Thunderf00t: "hold on, let me check the bible"
Ray Comfort: "God damn it."
somuchfortalent 5 months ago
Ray never lets Thunderf00t finish his sentences.
He should've shoved his thunderf00t up his ass...verbally
TheUnchainedMind 5 months ago
Even I know what complicity means, and I'm not even a native speaker.
Hey, at least he admitted he was ignorant. The bad thing is he takes pride in that.
TheUnchainedMind 5 months ago
So dishonest I think I've puked a little bit in my mouth.
felipeshide 5 months ago
Most baby's cry to get attention when they are not hungry, hurt, or scared. So they are lying and going to hell?
ninjakitty1753 5 months ago
So Ray´s jewish but he accepted Jesus Christ as his saviour? Hang about....
geyza0711 5 months ago
Way would you give Ray comfort control of the mic?!? Every time Thunderfoot tries to give more than a yes or no answer to a complicated question, Ray comfort yanks the microphone. Completely un-watchable!
nomajic 5 months ago
Well at least he is polite, even if he is as stupid as he is illogical as he is ridiculous.
kyrannippel 5 months ago
I wasn't expecting to enjoy that as much as I did.
gweems828 5 months ago
WTF does Ray mean by preconception? What a dolt! He can't even understand Tf00t's example of a fertilized egg not attaching to the uterine wall being the same as abortion. He's too simple to understand complex concepts so that's why he has an absolutists way of thinking. Most christians are as simple as he is.
allthatzpazz 6 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
Thunderf00t should not be trying to have intellectual discussions with people who aren't intellectual.
JoeyMacaroniPenguin 6 months ago 22
@JoeyMacaroniPenguin I wholeheartedly agree! And what might be better is to have a lawyer debate Ray Comfort who can be just as underhanded and crafty in debating him. (I am a law student, so it's okay to insult lawyers, hahaha).
MandarinTALK 4 months ago
Ray Comfort just puts words in Thunderf00ts mouth.
JoeyMacaroniPenguin 6 months ago
Ray Comfort is so annoying. All he does is interrupt and parrot his trademark bullshit. He does more to ridicule his position further than to strengthen it.
LoneRookRS1 6 months ago 3
I like ray comfort. I wouldn't mind if a lot more Christians were as passive as he is
RiotButter 6 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
ray isnt even smart enough to know what the phrase "giving you the last word" means.
jbulletc 6 months ago
you know, Ray reminds me of Murray (Rhys Darby) from the show Flight of the Conchords. not just his accent but the way he thinks and acts...
Khewew 6 months ago
Ray did what he did in the very first debate you had with him in the studio he just keeps changing the subject and try to manipulate the conversation by skipping to a bunch of different questions when he's just really an idiot.
CyraxBattle 6 months ago
Until the umbilical cord is cut a fetus is just a growth in the woman, it uses all of the mothers biological functions to survive. The mother breaths for it, it uses her blood to get nutrients, and waste is filtered through and expelled from her body through her organs. Until the fetus is born it is not it's own entity.
Couldar 6 months ago
@Couldar A fetus/baby can sustain itself outside of the womb after about...8 months or so? So until then, I don't consider a fetus a human, but a parasite. A brain doesn't grow until a fetus is 4 months old. So before that, it's not even alive but just a hump of flesh. I'd say that at the very least it's okay to abort until a brain and nervous system started to grow.
Sanquinity 6 months ago
If everyone who lied sometime in their life goes to hell, then there's only like 20 people in heaven right now.
crazymono5 6 months ago
I would like to encourage everybody to support Thunderf00t who continues vociferously defending the teaching of true science against it's oppressors. It's a debt we owe to our forefathers who have established the foundations of science from which we flourish and to our children who through them this knowledge will be preserved. It would be unforgiveable to allow the compromisation of this.
shinshoshine 6 months ago
Shouldn't have let him control that mic...He just plowed through actual arguments with endless drivel.
tipoomaster 6 months ago
This discussion can be summed up well with a Darwin quote that Thunderf00t has used before, "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
cinderelly7 6 months ago
Oh, and him being in control of the microphone didn't help either.
hexalslug 6 months ago
People like this are amazing debaters because they fully believe they have already won before they even allow another to make them examine their logic. They are steadfast in their views and their quick talking and incessant pressure to make their opponent answer irrelevant questions is enough to block any reasonable explanation from them before they ever get to make their point. Rational arguments are much harder to articulate than preconceived and immovable ones.
hexalslug 6 months ago
So basically ray feels this - "I see things around me therefore there is a God."
apstenzel07 6 months ago
It's hilarious hearing Comfort preach at him while they zoom in on Thunderf00t flipping through the Bible.
Ledwix 6 months ago
@bitcoinsrule Ray doesn't need any help showing his stupidity. TF just didn't do a good job.
vcdna1 6 months ago
Ray is definitely taking speed, or some form of amphetamine., to talk that quick.
RunningRenegade 6 months ago
Religion:
pochopaz7381 6 months ago
Morality made stupid
pochopaz7381 6 months ago
Anybody else feel that Ray Comfort argues very similarly to equally mindless Scientologists? It hurts my brain to hear the moronic rhetoric that spurts out of Ray's mouth...*face in palm*...
handsomebassman 6 months ago
Ray Comfort's voice is so annoying. He is a whiney poof. I would rather be minced in a wood chipper than spend one second with him.
ExNihiloJimmy 6 months ago
RAY CUMFART
ExNihiloJimmy 6 months ago 3