Piper, please, for the sake of the flock you see and don't see (me), stop dealing with Rick Warren. He's over here talking about "gay friends" and whatnot. You know, brother, you have a responsibility to your flock that is greater than the responsibility to your own conscience. This is just out of love for you as my brother, and no condemnation here, you are a man of God. I'm on your side and God's side, not Warren's side, and I think several of our brothers would agree. God bless you.
Unfortunately, many people don't do their research on rick warren, he is a chameleon, he has two points of view on homosexuality, he contradicts himself, he has invited muslim and new age people to talk to saddleback, either he has an agenda, or he is totally deceived by satan, remember that if satan could lie to the angels in heaven even when they could see God's glory, he can lie to anybody, discernment people, discernment.
Im not the biggest fan of saddleback church. I feel that it promotes being a Christian consumer. Its sort of a social circle more than a church. I personally do not support Rick Warren. I feel that if Piper lived in Orange County, he would know what i was talking about
Piper is sane enough to recognize that Luther, Calvin and John MacArthur are not the Trinity - & that alone is enough to taint him in the eyes of those who worship Reformed theology and not God himself. Those slamming Piper here tell the world much more about themselves than they elucidate anything about Piper or Warren.
It is ludicrous to seek theological or doctrinal "purity" but spit in Christ's face by smearing others who love Jesus, but differ on finer points of Reformed Theology. Insane.
Oh no John...not you too. Is there anybody left!!! Well folks, I guess it's time for us all to be what we are looking for. It is obvious that our "leaders" have completely. lost. their. minds.
I really appreciate your YouTube videos, John. I think it's a great way to connect with audiences. I've enjoyed watching them and getting some great teaching and insight.
Liked the stance on Warren in this video, and comments about secondary separation. I don't agree with everything Warren says, but that could be because he isn't Jesus.
If anyone asked me to either sign a "disciple covenant" or leave the congregation I would ask myself: "Is it God that wants me to do this? Did the apostles ask this of the believers?", meditate, read Scripture and get close to Christ in finding the answer.
instead of finding out why you dont like a certain pastor because of their theology.... how about teaming up with pastors that think differently than you but still have the basic essentials down and go out and love the non believers? How about unity? how about making Jesus the center of our lives instead of theology and doctrine? How about we dont let the enemy win by causing division? Lets press on church.
It's stunning that John Piper would interview Warren and accept him at his word. The problems with Warren, promotion of new age teachers, using "The Message" throughout his book, etc. are well known. It would take a mere few hours of research to conclude that Warren is a politician, and not to be trusted. And yet Piper is now staining his own reputation by inviting Warren to this conference? Why would someone do that? I now will not trust Piper either.
Is the point really how Warren answers Pipers questions? What about how he actually teaches, whom he supports and recommends to his flock and all the other issues.
This is yet another example of Piper wanting to stay hip and current. Why not invite a sound preacher who is not famous. Why must it be Warren? And if you want famous,why not Washer?
ok I would agree with pastor Piper to a degree however...Rick Warren is a member of The Council on foreign Relations ...so in these very end of days I will remain cautious..and more than a little suspicious
@happylazymartha The CFR is pure evil. It is little coincidence that Warren is a member of that org. and is promoted as "Pastor to America" by the media. His promotion of (demonic) new age teachers is absolute proof that Warren is a wolf in sheep's clothes. No need to be suspicious. You know the truth. We need to clearly condemn those who call themselves teachers and yet promote the devil's work.
I know little about Piper and now I need not know more. He's promoting a wolf.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works
Really folks are we that spiritual where we have to attack Piper for his decision on Rick Warren? my only question is how much time is spent on Face book and You Tube trying to find heresy and supposedly expose under the Banner of Reformed theology. I AM NOT AGAINST REFORMED THEOLOGY, it is needed! Our focus though should be on fulfilling the great commission. I truly wonder how much energy is spent leading people to Christ over dismissing Piper for his fellowship with Rick Warren.
Mr. Piper, not even an angel from heaven would be enough to prove Warrens orthodox Christian views when thats not what comes out of his mouth from the pulpit or in his books. You can read from a paper with his response all day long.I have lost some respect for you.
The essentials were there? Because he told you? your with him theologically? Hmm. Why doesn't he preach the gospel? Would he give you any other answers than what you expected to hear? The rubber meets the road , not what comes out of his mouth in response to your questions, which you read, but what comes out of his mouth all the rest of the time and i don;t think one comes to true knowledge of the gospel from that or his books. I have lost a level of respect for you john piper.
This whole discussion on who is to preach where and who's coming or not is a fine example of how the preacher has become more important then prayer. Jesus called his house a house of prayer not a house of preach...(i stole that line from somewhere: ten point for the somebody who finds out where;).
Piper and Warren are both wolves in sheeps clothing. There is no truth in them. Their gospels not only contradict each others, but also contradict the gospel Jesus taught. Jesus is the savior of the world :)
This is exactly why non-believers hate Christianity. All we believers do is argue against each other. Jesus said "love your neighbor." Lets just do that. These comments make me want to vomit.
I fully agree that jesus said to love your neighbor, but we are also called to protect right doctrine and the founding principles of the gospel, which can be found in Philippians, Colossians and Ephesians.
Don't some of you have better things to do with your life than criticize believers in Christ who don't see things exactly the way you do? You really think you're smart enough to spot every error and embrace every truth spot-on? Or that you have some kind of corner on the Holy Spirit and are always attuned to His voice? Paul said he rejoiced as long as the gospel was preached. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ offered for our salvation, and Warren preaches that.
There's a difference between associating with someone in a socializing aspect and a theological aspect. I don't have a problem with Piper hanging out with Warren to go see the latest edition of Twilight, but I do have a problem with him giving Warren the opportunity to instruct literally thousands of God's sheep The former is a "hanging out." The latter is hanging God's sheep out to dry.
We've listened to what you forced upon us, We have also listened to a lack of rebuke. I hope this is prudence for dropping the bomb when the conference is held at his church... Will you not address his heresy
He needs to help to see why this is a bad decision!!! Well Warren is an open liar and sits at the table of satan, seeking to please men. He changes his story, he preaches un-Biblical nonsense like at the TEDtalk2006 and he does not call out his pornographer church-member Rupert Murdoch. If Piper wants to learn from him then he is going to a corrupt tree and asking him why the fruit tastes so good.
@5to22a Ruppert Murdoch is also rumored to have purchased the rights to the Satanist Bible!!!!...what a shame Piper...This is the reason we must follow God and his word, not man....
@agoradzwn Must be a use of the word discernment I'm unfamiliar with. You might as well take the good bits from The Watchtower and Awake! if you're going to take that approach to 'discernment'. And I'm sure the Book of Mormon has some great wisdom in it, if you're prepared to discard the false parts. Wouldn't it be easier simply to stick to authors that actually accept the the Bible as the Word of God?
@poglad Um, JWs and Mormons are NOT Christian groups, so I'm not sure why you're using those to make an analogy. Btw, I AGREE with you on Piper/Warren in the context in question. But just because C.S. Lewis may have misinterpreted passages to conclude universalism (or whatever your unstated problem is with Lewis) does NOT make him a heretic like the aforementioned groups and does NOT mean we have to ignore the VERY VERY helpful things he said that are TRUE.
@agoradzwn Yes, they are not Christian groups, and C. S. Lewis was not a Christian either. That's exactly my point. He did not accept the Bible as the Word of God, he had a bizarre interpretation of the death of Christ that is no less heretical than those named groups, and he quite openly did not regard himself as born again/regenerate. I'm sure you can find the references if you wanted to. Mere Christianity and Surprised By Joy would be good places to start.
@poglad I've read both those books and recall nothing of the sort. As you are the one making serious allegations, please provide a specific reference. In any case, you really can't compare Piper quoting Lewis to his inviting Warren to a conference. There is a "stamp of approval" and embracing implied with the latter, whereas I've heard Piper give disclaimers about Lewis.
@poglad Also, I must say you come across as highly self-righteous for refusing to acknowledge the truth Lewis did proclaim because he also proclaimed error. Rather than being proud of that, if I were you, I would be praying for some more Christian maturity (e.g. discernment) when it comes to these matters.
@agoradzwn On the contrary, I will not praise the error of a dangerous false teacher. I don't see any Biblical reason for doing so, quite the opposite in fact. See Mere Christianity pp49, 63, 162 for totally non-Biblical teaching on salvation. If my pastor started teaching that, I would leave immediately. Letters To Malcolm p115, Lewis places being born again at the culmination of a life of works. This is false. Reflections on the Psalms pp110,112 Lewis states the Bible contains error.
@poglad Excuse me? When exactly did I say to praise error? I said to acknowledge the TRUTH. Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me what Lewis' says about the glory of God is not helpful to you? Are you seriously going to discount what he DID get right because of what he DIDN'T? Check yourself; are you perfect?
@agoradzwn Dr Martin Lloyd-Jones stated that Lewis had a defective view of salvation, and was an opponent of the substitutionary and penal theory of the Atonement - Christianity Today 20/12/1963. There are countless other false teachings that could be enumerated. Works salvation, unsaved man being basically good, man created via evolution, loss of salvation... I guess we must agree to disagree. Just remember - The Mormons LOVE C. S. Lewis. Most sound Christian literature is shunned by them. Why?
@poglad I'm not arguing whether Lewis should have been a pastor or seminary teacher, which is what you seem to be doing. I'm in agreement with you on that. My main point is that it is ridiculous to assert that Piper has embraced false teaching simply because he quoted C.S. Lewis when he got things right. Utterly ridiculous on your part. Warren is another issue altogether.
That's funny! I thought there was only Christ's church? Why don't they stop posturing
theologically and stop thinking that their theological decisions are what decides what God's will is. The irony is that it is a kind of worship of politics. Who wins "Most Theologically Correct Award"?
the purpose driven life is filled with new age terminology. It is my opinion that he is a fringe protestant preacher. Someone who's teaching would lack s huge amount of substance if they were incorporated into treatises. The fact that he is so popular in contemporary culture should be a warning not an asset.
@Do0dle005 read it these people are overly paranoid and are attacking men of God for attention. they obviously forgot the respect David showed saul time and time again.
What? Piper knows the truth why is he doing this? The Bible teaches us not to hang with the wolves in sheep's clothing. This is sad and I will no longer have anything to do with Piper as long as he is backing wolves. SAD!
I will not name names,but some are double minded people out for that money,i can say that because being the leader of a flock cannot be done with thousands of people in one church its impossible according to the bible.You must understand what a leader of the flock must do to understand what i have said here.A man that sells his sermons is out for money and is wrong for doing so.Put God on a pedital and know one else.
He doesn't practice biblical church discipline. "We practice church discipline... If members do not follow our church covenant we takes their names off the roles."- The Purpose Driven Church
I've had this exact question on my mind since the Conference. I'm so glad to hear John Piper address it. His response definitely gave me some food for thought and made we want to do a bit more research into Rick Warren's ministry before drawing any further conclusions based off of second hand information. Thanks Piper!
Just look at the Annual Davos Meeting 2008 where Rick Warren openly supports the amalgamation of ALL the world's religions. This man is a wolf in sheep's clothing and I'm very disappointed to see John Piper allow his kind into our fold.
that Christ didn't need to die on the cross. (John 17:4) He claims that Christ is the only way and yet Muslims don't need to convert. This is a dangerous type of theology and is growing more prevalent because the need for exclusivity is lessened. I consider a lot of Pastor Warren's teaching to fall into this category.
it's like trying to nail jello to a wall, finding out what some of these pastors believe. Limited atonement? sure no problem, I'd just like to tweak it. Unfortunately, I've learned that "tweak it" in emergent speak means to essentially toss it out. Nothing wrong with holding either position, but to not acknowledge that you hold positions that are in conflict is a very luke warm. There's a pastor a a big northern church who preached that Christ is essential one day and another preached
My only concern would be the tendency I've seen in some of the new theologians, Pastor Warren among them, to ignore the meaning of words. They often will hold disparate positions without acknowledging their opposition. I'm sure you had a wonderful conversation with Pastor Warren and I hope his addition to the conference went well. I'm not sure you wouldn't have had the same conversation with Bryan McClaren and many other emergent pastors. As my wonderful wife often says,
Youtube comment... I pray God's hand and Spirit was the initiator of this desire, and of this invite/decision, because if He isn't it will become clear and known. Much love to all those who love the Truth and seek and follow hard after Yeshua!
truly open to the way the body of believers feel who do generally agree with him... There is a serious reason as to why many are divided over Rick Warren and his ministry.. simply sitting with the man of his stature and asking a few questions doesn't cut it. I'm sure he was questioned similarly for the inaugural event which is just as big as any Conference we hold. So what do you think he said to the politicians to be received? I don't know... this is just to weird too type into a
call his accomplishments. In saying all of that... I do not applaud John in his decision on this matter of invitation either. Something else seems to be missing that hasn't been discussed about the purpose or reason behind the matter. I would like to know how Rick was laid on John's heart in the first place. It is more interesting to me to know the motive or the reason as to why John wants to walk or run along side Rick for--what impressed his heart to go in this direction? And is John
This is pretty sad to hear... I'm against the various unbiblical approaches some of us believers may take when it comes to separating ourselves and speaking against those we disagree with, but... it's hard to swallow this. I'm not a die hard fan/ supporter of John Piper nor of Rick Warren, but I do, for the most part, like and agree with what I hear when I listen to some of John's teachings. Rick on the other hand is different and I don't believe the same as him nor applaud many of what most
Well Piper is good to be willing to talk to this guy although they differ greatly in truths. I don't see why so many are riled up at Piper having something like an interview with Rick. Only downside was Warren preaching at the conference cause he said quite some contradictory stuff.
Pastor Piper did not address the primary issue with Warren. He should "feel bad" because Warren is Pelagian. Warren believes in "regeneration by prayer." Ecclesiological separation is necessary for rejection of heresy. Warren is using double-speak and Piper is foolish to believe him. All one need to do is read the "Purpose Driven Church" where regeneration has been reduced to checking a box on a card. This is not even about Reformed theology- this is an issue of orthodoxy. Sad and shameful.
@fisherm2n I appreciate your admonish and I welcome you to bring forward any evidence that you have regarding my teachings being heretical. That being said:
1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
@barg3907 1 corinthians 1:10-17 man for a while I was caught up in all this talk about calvinism, armenianism, pelagianism and I don't know how many -isms, but I had to stop and realize, while I'm here as a 5 point calvinist,people are still dying and going to hell and and not doing anything about it.this is not Gods will. 2 Peter 3:9
@fisherm2n Certainly we should all be zealous to share the Gospel, but which "-ism" we hold to will determine not only our methodology but also our Gospel. Only 1 of the three can be the true Gospel. The Pelagian position is not the Biblical Gospel and cannot save. We can look at the end results of and the cults that came from the "revivals" of Charles Finney to see the danger of the Pelagian position. This is not about Calvinism this is about orthodoxy vs. heresy.
@fisherm2n yeah and I have seen some of what this guy (RW) has said like on larry King and I am very dissapointed but I know that I have sinned even after my repentence and I have to contnue repntnfrom sin timeandtime again & I just hope RW has repented of the sin he committed so he can go on to do God's will. IDK I cannot judge another man but I know that lotsa ppl openedBibles whenthey read his book.ANd that is a seed planted in thousands of heartsthat would otherwise be lost. allsins areequal
@barg3907 its not even that difikult, warren is a CFR member, warren gives
covering to rupert murdock the owner and manipulator of the NIV and owner of the satanic bible in return for funding and murdock owns the porn industry piper needs to do research instead of excusing him
@TheOkstate2012 First let me apologize for my flippant remarks. Sorry. My passion is not always an asset. I was referring to Warren's concept of decisional regeneration. Warren does not come out and say he is Pelagian but his writing reveals just that. "Commitment Card"- every in service fills out card, Warren invites to bow heads. He prayers "model prayer" & asks congregation to "commit to Jesus." They indicate their "decision on the commitment card."-"Purpose Driven Church," Warren, p. 303.
@barg3907 Oh okay, sorry I really miss read your first response. That actually makes perfect sense. I thought for some reason you were talking about regeneration in the sense of the new creation you become when you follow Christ.
Thats why I responded, as you see why I might. haha.
@barg3907 Oh okay, sorry I really miss read your first response. That actually makes perfect sense. I thought for some reason you were talking about regeneration in the sense of the new creation you become when you follow Christ.
Thats why I responded, as you see why I might. haha.
@barg3907 dont miss pipers point though.. is pelagianism really a point to break fellowship over? notice how they both hold to a strong affirmation of soteriological truth and scriptural authority among many other things.. warren is not without faults, but also not without strengths which i believe (and piper seems to affirm) god is using
I would not pile on about Rick Warren, but the reality is the guy does not preach the same Gospel Jesus did. His trademark book does not once present a biblical gospel.
The question is not whether you will hang out with him John, it's which four or five guys you will specifically honor by presenting at your conference. To me, it's your call but this is the reason I'd be queasy.
@rbmath because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and because judge not lest ye be judged!!! PEople make mistakes and for that reason christ died on the cross. I guess you would cast the first stone.
@fisherm2n The judgment forbidden is judgment done with evil or sinful motives. The bible does NOT forbid all Judgment. John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
NO i will not listen to you anymore John Piper u compromising with the truth !!!and u must know it...u go defend Rick Warren all u want its not like u correcting him u hangin out with him so it means u agree with his actions..
@FlawlesZMa so you only listen to what you think is the truth.and if somebody isn't preaching a fire sermon then they are teaching heresey according to your theology
All i have to say is>Mat 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible.
Sorry John, I'm quite disappointed in your position. You should know better than to listen to what comes out of a person's mouth without the evidence to back it up. Warren, by evidence, is a flip-flopper and people pleaser. He is afraid of Christ's gospel and that is proven by his prayer at the inaugural address. Yes, he may give it within the comfort of his own church but when done publicly, he shies away.
Pastor John, this response may be too little too late. I agree that you need not choose to fight RW, but rather hammer home the truth. To keep this short, details are left out. RW has aligned himself with the kind of Christianity that is killing the American church. He alligns himself with people like Bono who calls himself a Christian on one day and is the devil the next. He has used his influence with the S. Baptist conv. to get them on board w/ the ONE campaign. A wolf in sheeps clothing
@77maximus77 "people like Bono who calls himself a Christian on one day and is the devil the next."
- Aren't we all, aren't we all, my friend. And on a side note: while all the foot soldiers of Reformed Theology are inside conducting proper exegesis and brushing up on their Greek, people like RW are actually out there on the front lines...putting their faith into action. Something that I fail at miserably.
If Jesus actually received our punishment, then what room is there for forgiveness? Clearly our debts can't be forgiven if they are already paid in full. Penal substitution was not the primary way that the early church understood the nature of the atonement, so one has to ask if they were neglecting the "essence" of the gospel, on Piper's view.
But I'm relieved to know that Warren isn't a five-point Calvinist. lol I didn't really think he was, but his actual theology seems a bit hazy.
Penal substitution, a 16th century atonement theory, is the "essence" of the gospel? The legal theories espoused by Anselm and Calvin were comfortable in the Latin West, but Eastern Christians have historically never thought that way. Jesus came to liberate us from enslavement to sin and death--not from his own Father. This does present some serious ethical problems about the cruel punishment of the innocent. Jesus came to reconcile us to God--not simply to appease His pitiless justice.
Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
what on earth?????????john piper. i expected more from you, you know rick warren is an antichrist and you are having company with him???????????? wow!!!!!!!!!this is postitvely the great falling away, beware true christians, there is great deception everywhere. Jesus . Our LORD warned us of many becoming decieved by satan . wolves in sheeps clothing all of them! glad the LORD set me free from the church system. my advice, get out now , follow JESUS only! follow the narrow way!
what on earth?????????john piper. i expected more from you, you know rick warren is an antichrist and you are having company with him???????????? wow!!!!!!!!!this is postitvely the great falling away, beware true christians, there is great deception everywhere. Jesus . Our LORD warned us of many becoming decieved by satan and using some sinister ways to do it. wolves in sheeps clothing all of them! glad the LORD set me free from the church system. my advice, get out now , follow JESUS only!
@SeHonesto no que hay que ser la luz del mundo? con quien se juntaba Jesus?
mateo 7:1 yo no mas quiero saber si estoy equivocado? a mi me parece que ese hombre (rick warren) ha hecho errores pero todo via desea a Dios. romanos 3:23.
@madamoisele1 so churches shouldn't recieve tithes either I can't stand the way churches are always trying to Get money just like a false profit to sell a book!!!!!!
Rick Warren is worshipping himself like most Christians. He is an IMPOSTER. Very FEW know the REAL Jesus. Sin & Repentance is NOT part of MOST preachers vocabulary. Jesus ALWAYS said SIN NO MORE. How many now even know what sin is ? I even have Christians tell me that Matthew 7:21-23 refers to Christians who lose part of their reward & others say that they never were Christians. Please GET REAL with Christ now, before it is too late.
@Romans1014Preach I admire you, you stated a truth on how so many christians are self worshipers,but you have to remember 2 peter 3:9 says God is patient with us and it is not his will that any should perish but all cme to repntnce. if wht everyone on here is posting is true then every person on the face of the earth is going to hell. noone isholy no not 1. guess the guy who put the star spngle banner in the hymnal are destine for hell too,they ARE GUILTY OF NATIONALISM.patriotsm=sin=nofrgivness
I am so grateful for your example of love, humility and unity. I am praying for you and for other current leaders who God has chosen to be in the spotlight in some sense, as well as for the next generation of leaders that that they will be marked by love and humility in addition to sound theology.
I can't wait to be at the THINK conference.
I'm praying that the grace of God in Rick and the grace of God in you will spur each other on to love and good deeds.
@soldieroftheLord314 Oh, puke! Again, let John agree with Rick on his own time, and let us all be good stewards of the time God has given us with young people.
@Ted2864 yes, let us be good stewards of Truth. That good stewardship should result in a life molded by it, primarily seen in faith working through love. A huge part of love is humility.
I am grieved by how much arrogance rather than humility and love has been revealed in so many of these posts. One of my big prayers is that God will work in this upcoming generation love and humility such that our knowledge doesn't puff up.
I love John's example of love, humility, and unity in the Gospel
@soldieroftheLord314 This is fabulous! Humility...hmmmm, I'll have to look into that.
While we are pulling the 'love card', there are thousands of applications of love towards others. One good example of love is prefering your audience ( by contending for the truth and GUARDING them from error), and breeding fellowship among leaders in a more private venue. We need unity,yes. But by staying WITHIN the Gospel, not by reaching for unity with those OUTSIDE of the Gospel. This is simple, right?
While I'm not happy about this invitation, I think John Piper has had a track record that edifies the body of Christ for DECADES. Let's just see what happens and support Pastor John on this.
Pastor John, I know you'll never see this, but I support your judgment on the Biblical and Godly.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
"I think he meant it when he started the book the Purpose Driven Life with 'it's not about you'" Oh come now John! Have you even READ the book? You're so gullible!
This is an interesting topic (seperation) that interests me.
John, what would you say to someone who accused you of being, shall we say, a muslim (despite this obvious falsehood) and a liar in everything you say - simply because you had a dialogue (such as you describe with Rick) with an elder of the Islamic faith?
The basis of 'common ground' here, theoretically, being worship of the same Abrahamic god and a non-antagonistic attitude towards discussing theoligical difference.
The problem with Rick Warren, as I see it - while his answers to John were "correct", his public face has been quite contrary to these statements presented here.
When asked of Jesus Christ was the ONLY way - he has waffled. That by itself is enough to have questions about Warren.
shouldn't we be WANTING warren to be around piper? maybe God could use piper in warren's life and bring him back. getting sick of people jumping and screaming negatively about all of this.
@juasmith1 Cause there's a difference between having him with you (i agree, that's good), or putting him in front of all your impressionable children as 'someone to learn from'.
I know that Rick Warren believes and understand all those precious doctrines and even the true gospel of Jesus Christ. The problem is that every time he has the opportunity to proclaim those truths, literally to the world, in his interviews, among politics, in his books, among leaders of other religions, ALWAYS seems to forget all of that. Also his books PDC and PDL are filled with non biblical methods and thoughts.
So glad to find this video. Hard to understand how people can criticize Ps Warren after someone like Ps John Piper can speak directly with him and hear his heart and beliefs. I read Purpose Driven Life in 2003 and I could find much of what people were criticizing him about. Hats off to Ps John Piper for reaching out in the Spirit of Christ and testing and evaluating Ps Warren. Also hats off for his humility and willingness to unify the Body of Christ. I am encouraged by this.
Dear friends, Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit by declaring the work of God, that Rick is accomplishing, the work of satan. Rick's doctrine is orthodox and his ministry has been blessed here and around the world. He has much to teach us about actually accomplishing the Great Commission and we should come to the conference with ears that are eager to hear what God will say through him. Many of us are so far removed from the lost of this world that we don't understand Rick's ministry.
We need to look at ourselves and make sure we're not being a little legalistic here. Pastor Warren brings to word of Jesus Christ to MANY non-believers. This bickering about him is saddening...
By the way, for those of you who are chomping at the bit to see what Warren will have to say @ the DG conference, count on it sounding pretty Reformed. The same way he sounds supportive of Islam around muslims and Judaism around Jews.
@fggerv ... because you, like most people hate criticism and working on your own faults when you can focus oh his/others. If Jesus was alive (in his Gospels era incarnation form) you would not want him to attend your High Priest Piper's Festival of Discovering G-d. G-d and Christ are/is supportive of Muslims, and Jews and Catholics and even you whenever they/we are not being unLoving of our neighbor. Be un"supportive" in private once you have shown you have, from G-d, discipline&trustworthns
Why don't we just forget about making a difference and taking a stand for Christ and his words, and let's just all have a "lovein" instead? This is pretty much the philosophy over at Fuller Theological Seminary, to reject no man who "names the name of Jesus", no matter what his doctrine. Piper is showing himself more and more to be a product of this. What's next for JP? The Evangelical Roman Catholic priest, who "believes in the authority of the Bible and rejects the Papacy...... sort of?"
1) I'm dissapointed in Pastor John. Listen to a selection of Pastor Warren's sermons (which I have) you don't see these "central things" anywhere.
2) Purpose Driven Life? Day 1, it's not about me - it's about God. Day 2-40, it's ALL ABOUT ME.
3) I am excited to attend this conference. I am excited to hear from Rick Warren, and am praying that the conference itself will transform his teaching - his audience is pretty massive.
1) I'm dissapointed in Pastor John. Listen to a selection of Pastor Warren's sermons (which I have) you don't see these "central things" anywhere.
2) Purpose Driven Life? Day 1, it's not about me - it's about God. Day 2-40, it's ALL ABOUT ME.
3) I am excited to attend this conference. I am excited to hear from Rick Warren, and am praying that the conference itself will transform his teaching - his audience is pretty massive.
As all of us, people make mistakes and i guess i've seen a lot of Warren's missunderstandings on certain subjects, but he still has, like all of us, God's grace and mercy to abide on. So John Piper is an amazing man of God, and Rick Warren as far as what people consider being wrong with him... we all under God aren't we...we should all see to our personal lives and take what God tells us to be GOOD and BIBLICAL out of people's teachings.
Jesus seemed pretty comfortable being associated w/ people that could confuse people about his beliefs. "secondary separation" = If I see value in someone that you don't, we can still be friends and support each other. Crazy concept. Sad thing is Christians seem to have to spend so much time trying to figure out who can be "held at arm’s length". Creates false comfort w/ my team. Maybe if Christian's beat on each other enough about their beliefs they can have Balaam's Ass speak next yr.
Why can't Piper say "I feel like Rick Warren's ministry shows that he has a word for our group, so feel free to join us at our conference.? Why does Piper feel the need to state he is going to try to change Rick's mind about atonement? If Piper wants to do that, that is fine but why tell everybody. It sounds like Piper is somehow trying to defend his decision to have Rick speak by inferring that by having Rick he may get the chance to convert him to "our" team.
How do you deal with situations like this? You go to the scriptures and not to your opinions or your feelings. If only Christians would have learned to submit to the apostolic directives contained in Rom. 16:17, 2 John 10-11, Gal. 1:8-9 when it comes to matters of ecclesiastical separation, we wouldn't have the confusing mess that exists today regarding Christian unity. Advice. Read Martyn Lloyd-Jones, J. Gresham Machen and previous if you want to avoid this kind of vexation of soul.
Piper, please, for the sake of the flock you see and don't see (me), stop dealing with Rick Warren. He's over here talking about "gay friends" and whatnot. You know, brother, you have a responsibility to your flock that is greater than the responsibility to your own conscience. This is just out of love for you as my brother, and no condemnation here, you are a man of God. I'm on your side and God's side, not Warren's side, and I think several of our brothers would agree. God bless you.
CommunityStraightUP 10 hours ago
Unfortunately, many people don't do their research on rick warren, he is a chameleon, he has two points of view on homosexuality, he contradicts himself, he has invited muslim and new age people to talk to saddleback, either he has an agenda, or he is totally deceived by satan, remember that if satan could lie to the angels in heaven even when they could see God's glory, he can lie to anybody, discernment people, discernment.
yesoqueesbrother 3 weeks ago
@yesoqueesbrother But then again, not everyone has that gift of discernment. :D
CommunityStraightUP 10 hours ago
Please see this article, in defense of John Piper, a man of God.
paraguru911 1 month ago
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paraguru911 1 month ago
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Please see this article, in defense of John Piper, a man of God.
Desiring Rick Warren? John Piper is a False Teacher for Speaking at Saddleback? Really?
by Brad on March 1, 2011
paraguru911 1 month ago
@paraguru911 What article?
CommunityStraightUP 10 hours ago
Im not the biggest fan of saddleback church. I feel that it promotes being a Christian consumer. Its sort of a social circle more than a church. I personally do not support Rick Warren. I feel that if Piper lived in Orange County, he would know what i was talking about
zachp95 2 months ago
They will know we are His children by how we love the brothers in Christ.
dsullfbc 3 months ago
Piper is sane enough to recognize that Luther, Calvin and John MacArthur are not the Trinity - & that alone is enough to taint him in the eyes of those who worship Reformed theology and not God himself. Those slamming Piper here tell the world much more about themselves than they elucidate anything about Piper or Warren.
It is ludicrous to seek theological or doctrinal "purity" but spit in Christ's face by smearing others who love Jesus, but differ on finer points of Reformed Theology. Insane.
patty7beth 3 months ago
Oh no John...not you too. Is there anybody left!!! Well folks, I guess it's time for us all to be what we are looking for. It is obvious that our "leaders" have completely. lost. their. minds.
bella50008 4 months ago
I really appreciate your YouTube videos, John. I think it's a great way to connect with audiences. I've enjoyed watching them and getting some great teaching and insight.
Liked the stance on Warren in this video, and comments about secondary separation. I don't agree with everything Warren says, but that could be because he isn't Jesus.
Nokoryous 4 months ago
egad, lucifer is one busy mofo
makahru 5 months ago
@makahru:
Ain't he ever?! Wow! I almost can't believe my ears listening to this!
NappingMarine 4 months ago
If anyone asked me to either sign a "disciple covenant" or leave the congregation I would ask myself: "Is it God that wants me to do this? Did the apostles ask this of the believers?", meditate, read Scripture and get close to Christ in finding the answer.
saibot24122412 5 months ago
To me he is trying to find ways to justify a relationship with a heretic like Warren.
jmo2885 5 months ago
7:00 - 8:00. Absolutely key. Lot of respect for JP
bristolsteve 6 months ago
It's been proven that Warren answers questions differently, depending on his audience, so what's the point of an interview?
88momart 7 months ago
instead of finding out why you dont like a certain pastor because of their theology.... how about teaming up with pastors that think differently than you but still have the basic essentials down and go out and love the non believers? How about unity? how about making Jesus the center of our lives instead of theology and doctrine? How about we dont let the enemy win by causing division? Lets press on church.
WORLDOFDANCETOUR 7 months ago
just lost some respect for john piper..
TheBraxton61 7 months ago 2
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 7 months ago
Mr Piper really needs that sabbatical & to spend some time researching Warren properly.
Unbelievable.
oldaliu 8 months ago 3
hope mr. piper isn't deceived...
dougmoerhoffman 9 months ago 5
It's stunning that John Piper would interview Warren and accept him at his word. The problems with Warren, promotion of new age teachers, using "The Message" throughout his book, etc. are well known. It would take a mere few hours of research to conclude that Warren is a politician, and not to be trusted. And yet Piper is now staining his own reputation by inviting Warren to this conference? Why would someone do that? I now will not trust Piper either.
fxtrader92 9 months ago
Todd Bentley. If you can get past that and accept Rick Warren then you are blind!
buzzbbird 10 months ago
Is the point really how Warren answers Pipers questions? What about how he actually teaches, whom he supports and recommends to his flock and all the other issues.
This is yet another example of Piper wanting to stay hip and current. Why not invite a sound preacher who is not famous. Why must it be Warren? And if you want famous,why not Washer?
all4Hisgloryalone 10 months ago
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all4Hisgloryalone 10 months ago
See PASTOR DICK CARTOON for the TRUTH on WARREN
SoiledSouls 10 months ago
Rick Warren is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR exists to bring about a one-world government.
hotelkasai 10 months ago
ok I would agree with pastor Piper to a degree however...Rick Warren is a member of The Council on foreign Relations ...so in these very end of days I will remain cautious..and more than a little suspicious
happylazymartha 10 months ago
@happylazymartha The CFR is pure evil. It is little coincidence that Warren is a member of that org. and is promoted as "Pastor to America" by the media. His promotion of (demonic) new age teachers is absolute proof that Warren is a wolf in sheep's clothes. No need to be suspicious. You know the truth. We need to clearly condemn those who call themselves teachers and yet promote the devil's work.
I know little about Piper and now I need not know more. He's promoting a wolf.
fxtrader92 9 months ago
Why is John Piper defending Rick Warren?
teacup771 11 months ago
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Yes it is clearly an endorsement...
2 Corinthians 11
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works
LLThenu 11 months ago
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Beware the Wolf in sheeps clothing... Farewell John Piper...
EloHimisGod 11 months ago
Really folks are we that spiritual where we have to attack Piper for his decision on Rick Warren? my only question is how much time is spent on Face book and You Tube trying to find heresy and supposedly expose under the Banner of Reformed theology. I AM NOT AGAINST REFORMED THEOLOGY, it is needed! Our focus though should be on fulfilling the great commission. I truly wonder how much energy is spent leading people to Christ over dismissing Piper for his fellowship with Rick Warren.
dee116boy 11 months ago 2
@dee116boy right on brother, agreed! Let's get to work, instead of biting on each other!
maguchen 10 months ago
Part, I say, part, of John Piper's problem is that he has become yet another professing Christian who wants to be percieved as being "cool".
fggerv 11 months ago
MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life
MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life
MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life
MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life
MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life
DOESTHEBIBLESAYTHAT 1 year ago 11
Then the Synod of Dordt may as well be erased from our history. The past 500 years were for nothing.
Doulos7608 1 year ago
Mr. Piper, not even an angel from heaven would be enough to prove Warrens orthodox Christian views when thats not what comes out of his mouth from the pulpit or in his books. You can read from a paper with his response all day long.I have lost some respect for you.
sylesarajner 1 year ago
The essentials were there? Because he told you? your with him theologically? Hmm. Why doesn't he preach the gospel? Would he give you any other answers than what you expected to hear? The rubber meets the road , not what comes out of his mouth in response to your questions, which you read, but what comes out of his mouth all the rest of the time and i don;t think one comes to true knowledge of the gospel from that or his books. I have lost a level of respect for you john piper.
sylesarajner 1 year ago
I am trying to get my head around this guy, Lord forgive me , but Piper said nothing !!!!
heatmanable 1 year ago
This whole discussion on who is to preach where and who's coming or not is a fine example of how the preacher has become more important then prayer. Jesus called his house a house of prayer not a house of preach...(i stole that line from somewhere: ten point for the somebody who finds out where;).
LLThenu 1 year ago
Wow. Piper is deluded.
wawabbit 1 year ago
search on youtube: Rick Warren Occult Deception part1of 4
LLThenu 1 year ago
i am not for rick warren
christowdow 1 year ago
Piper and Warren are both wolves in sheeps clothing. There is no truth in them. Their gospels not only contradict each others, but also contradict the gospel Jesus taught. Jesus is the savior of the world :)
johnjordanbmx 1 year ago
This is exactly why non-believers hate Christianity. All we believers do is argue against each other. Jesus said "love your neighbor." Lets just do that. These comments make me want to vomit.
rwright422 1 year ago
@rwright422
I fully agree that jesus said to love your neighbor, but we are also called to protect right doctrine and the founding principles of the gospel, which can be found in Philippians, Colossians and Ephesians.
chapaneseboi21 1 year ago
Don't some of you have better things to do with your life than criticize believers in Christ who don't see things exactly the way you do? You really think you're smart enough to spot every error and embrace every truth spot-on? Or that you have some kind of corner on the Holy Spirit and are always attuned to His voice? Paul said he rejoiced as long as the gospel was preached. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ offered for our salvation, and Warren preaches that.
johnnyjohn2081 1 year ago
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump...
brunoifc 1 year ago 2
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There's a difference between associating with someone in a socializing aspect and a theological aspect. I don't have a problem with Piper hanging out with Warren to go see the latest edition of Twilight, but I do have a problem with him giving Warren the opportunity to instruct literally thousands of God's sheep The former is a "hanging out." The latter is hanging God's sheep out to dry.
LaneCh 1 year ago
sorry but i can't help but be dissapointed in Piper for this....
rajecks 1 year ago
piper is deceived. What a Shame. Ricky must be slicky because he has this affect on many. All I see when Ricky is talking is fanged teeth protruding
mijadedios 1 year ago
Secondary separation? The Bible mentions this in this way: "A little leaven leavens the whole lump" (Galatians 5:9). This is pathetic
truthsourcenet 1 year ago
We've listened to what you forced upon us, We have also listened to a lack of rebuke. I hope this is prudence for dropping the bomb when the conference is held at his church... Will you not address his heresy
GraciousIsGod 1 year ago
He needs to help to see why this is a bad decision!!! Well Warren is an open liar and sits at the table of satan, seeking to please men. He changes his story, he preaches un-Biblical nonsense like at the TEDtalk2006 and he does not call out his pornographer church-member Rupert Murdoch. If Piper wants to learn from him then he is going to a corrupt tree and asking him why the fruit tastes so good.
REPENT John Piper!!! Repent, sir!!!
5to22a 1 year ago
@5to22a Ruppert Murdoch is also rumored to have purchased the rights to the Satanist Bible!!!!...what a shame Piper...This is the reason we must follow God and his word, not man....
rajecks 1 year ago
Warren is part of this emergent church apostasy. Piper needs to repent about this and check the facts again.
5to22a 1 year ago
is anyone starting to really dislike the phrase "secondary issues"?
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago 2
So he invited a false teacher. Why so surprised? He's been advocating C S Lewis for years, and that guy's views were as false as they get.
poglad 1 year ago
@poglad "false as they get" ?! please, spare me; you take what's good from him and use discernment. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
agoradzwn 1 year ago
@agoradzwn Must be a use of the word discernment I'm unfamiliar with. You might as well take the good bits from The Watchtower and Awake! if you're going to take that approach to 'discernment'. And I'm sure the Book of Mormon has some great wisdom in it, if you're prepared to discard the false parts. Wouldn't it be easier simply to stick to authors that actually accept the the Bible as the Word of God?
poglad 1 year ago
@poglad Um, JWs and Mormons are NOT Christian groups, so I'm not sure why you're using those to make an analogy. Btw, I AGREE with you on Piper/Warren in the context in question. But just because C.S. Lewis may have misinterpreted passages to conclude universalism (or whatever your unstated problem is with Lewis) does NOT make him a heretic like the aforementioned groups and does NOT mean we have to ignore the VERY VERY helpful things he said that are TRUE.
agoradzwn 1 year ago
@agoradzwn Yes, they are not Christian groups, and C. S. Lewis was not a Christian either. That's exactly my point. He did not accept the Bible as the Word of God, he had a bizarre interpretation of the death of Christ that is no less heretical than those named groups, and he quite openly did not regard himself as born again/regenerate. I'm sure you can find the references if you wanted to. Mere Christianity and Surprised By Joy would be good places to start.
poglad 1 year ago
@poglad I've read both those books and recall nothing of the sort. As you are the one making serious allegations, please provide a specific reference. In any case, you really can't compare Piper quoting Lewis to his inviting Warren to a conference. There is a "stamp of approval" and embracing implied with the latter, whereas I've heard Piper give disclaimers about Lewis.
agoradzwn 1 year ago
@poglad Also, I must say you come across as highly self-righteous for refusing to acknowledge the truth Lewis did proclaim because he also proclaimed error. Rather than being proud of that, if I were you, I would be praying for some more Christian maturity (e.g. discernment) when it comes to these matters.
agoradzwn 1 year ago
@agoradzwn On the contrary, I will not praise the error of a dangerous false teacher. I don't see any Biblical reason for doing so, quite the opposite in fact. See Mere Christianity pp49, 63, 162 for totally non-Biblical teaching on salvation. If my pastor started teaching that, I would leave immediately. Letters To Malcolm p115, Lewis places being born again at the culmination of a life of works. This is false. Reflections on the Psalms pp110,112 Lewis states the Bible contains error.
poglad 1 year ago
@poglad Excuse me? When exactly did I say to praise error? I said to acknowledge the TRUTH. Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me what Lewis' says about the glory of God is not helpful to you? Are you seriously going to discount what he DID get right because of what he DIDN'T? Check yourself; are you perfect?
agoradzwn 1 year ago
@agoradzwn Dr Martin Lloyd-Jones stated that Lewis had a defective view of salvation, and was an opponent of the substitutionary and penal theory of the Atonement - Christianity Today 20/12/1963. There are countless other false teachings that could be enumerated. Works salvation, unsaved man being basically good, man created via evolution, loss of salvation... I guess we must agree to disagree. Just remember - The Mormons LOVE C. S. Lewis. Most sound Christian literature is shunned by them. Why?
poglad 1 year ago
@poglad I'm not arguing whether Lewis should have been a pastor or seminary teacher, which is what you seem to be doing. I'm in agreement with you on that. My main point is that it is ridiculous to assert that Piper has embraced false teaching simply because he quoted C.S. Lewis when he got things right. Utterly ridiculous on your part. Warren is another issue altogether.
agoradzwn 1 year ago
John Piper's church, Rick Warren's church.
That's funny! I thought there was only Christ's church? Why don't they stop posturing
theologically and stop thinking that their theological decisions are what decides what God's will is. The irony is that it is a kind of worship of politics. Who wins "Most Theologically Correct Award"?
caveatemp 1 year ago
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the purpose driven life is filled with new age terminology. It is my opinion that he is a fringe protestant preacher. Someone who's teaching would lack s huge amount of substance if they were incorporated into treatises. The fact that he is so popular in contemporary culture should be a warning not an asset.
dinokralt4 1 year ago
@Do0dle005 read it these people are overly paranoid and are attacking men of God for attention. they obviously forgot the respect David showed saul time and time again.
fisherm2n 1 year ago
What? Piper knows the truth why is he doing this? The Bible teaches us not to hang with the wolves in sheep's clothing. This is sad and I will no longer have anything to do with Piper as long as he is backing wolves. SAD!
TheSmith34 1 year ago 2
I will not name names,but some are double minded people out for that money,i can say that because being the leader of a flock cannot be done with thousands of people in one church its impossible according to the bible.You must understand what a leader of the flock must do to understand what i have said here.A man that sells his sermons is out for money and is wrong for doing so.Put God on a pedital and know one else.
HaroldWillett 1 year ago
He doesn't practice biblical church discipline. "We practice church discipline... If members do not follow our church covenant we takes their names off the roles."- The Purpose Driven Church
sixfigures1 1 year ago
I hope Rick Warren's teaching has gotten stronger. I still believe his prayer at the inauguration was weak. He didn't even say "in Jesus name"!
Rocky777 1 year ago
I've had this exact question on my mind since the Conference. I'm so glad to hear John Piper address it. His response definitely gave me some food for thought and made we want to do a bit more research into Rick Warren's ministry before drawing any further conclusions based off of second hand information. Thanks Piper!
jlharon 1 year ago
I am sad to see Pastor Piper partnering with Warren. :-p
newbirth35 1 year ago
Just look at the Annual Davos Meeting 2008 where Rick Warren openly supports the amalgamation of ALL the world's religions. This man is a wolf in sheep's clothing and I'm very disappointed to see John Piper allow his kind into our fold.
PropheticVindicator 1 year ago 21
that Christ didn't need to die on the cross. (John 17:4) He claims that Christ is the only way and yet Muslims don't need to convert. This is a dangerous type of theology and is growing more prevalent because the need for exclusivity is lessened. I consider a lot of Pastor Warren's teaching to fall into this category.
Words matter, positions matter, belief matters.
Blessing to you.
cookingfordads 1 year ago 2
it's like trying to nail jello to a wall, finding out what some of these pastors believe. Limited atonement? sure no problem, I'd just like to tweak it. Unfortunately, I've learned that "tweak it" in emergent speak means to essentially toss it out. Nothing wrong with holding either position, but to not acknowledge that you hold positions that are in conflict is a very luke warm. There's a pastor a a big northern church who preached that Christ is essential one day and another preached
cookingfordads 1 year ago
Pastor Piper,
My only concern would be the tendency I've seen in some of the new theologians, Pastor Warren among them, to ignore the meaning of words. They often will hold disparate positions without acknowledging their opposition. I'm sure you had a wonderful conversation with Pastor Warren and I hope his addition to the conference went well. I'm not sure you wouldn't have had the same conversation with Bryan McClaren and many other emergent pastors. As my wonderful wife often says,
cookingfordads 1 year ago
Youtube comment... I pray God's hand and Spirit was the initiator of this desire, and of this invite/decision, because if He isn't it will become clear and known. Much love to all those who love the Truth and seek and follow hard after Yeshua!
BlessedPrincess81 1 year ago
truly open to the way the body of believers feel who do generally agree with him... There is a serious reason as to why many are divided over Rick Warren and his ministry.. simply sitting with the man of his stature and asking a few questions doesn't cut it. I'm sure he was questioned similarly for the inaugural event which is just as big as any Conference we hold. So what do you think he said to the politicians to be received? I don't know... this is just to weird too type into a
BlessedPrincess81 1 year ago
call his accomplishments. In saying all of that... I do not applaud John in his decision on this matter of invitation either. Something else seems to be missing that hasn't been discussed about the purpose or reason behind the matter. I would like to know how Rick was laid on John's heart in the first place. It is more interesting to me to know the motive or the reason as to why John wants to walk or run along side Rick for--what impressed his heart to go in this direction? And is John
BlessedPrincess81 1 year ago
This is pretty sad to hear... I'm against the various unbiblical approaches some of us believers may take when it comes to separating ourselves and speaking against those we disagree with, but... it's hard to swallow this. I'm not a die hard fan/ supporter of John Piper nor of Rick Warren, but I do, for the most part, like and agree with what I hear when I listen to some of John's teachings. Rick on the other hand is different and I don't believe the same as him nor applaud many of what most
BlessedPrincess81 1 year ago
Well Piper is good to be willing to talk to this guy although they differ greatly in truths. I don't see why so many are riled up at Piper having something like an interview with Rick. Only downside was Warren preaching at the conference cause he said quite some contradictory stuff.
Automatic25 1 year ago
To John Piper: Rick likes mashed-potatoes and I like mashed-potatoes too!!
Ted2864 1 year ago
Pastor Piper did not address the primary issue with Warren. He should "feel bad" because Warren is Pelagian. Warren believes in "regeneration by prayer." Ecclesiological separation is necessary for rejection of heresy. Warren is using double-speak and Piper is foolish to believe him. All one need to do is read the "Purpose Driven Church" where regeneration has been reduced to checking a box on a card. This is not even about Reformed theology- this is an issue of orthodoxy. Sad and shameful.
barg3907 1 year ago 33
@barg3907 I agree. Wholeheartedly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
croftperkins 1 year ago
@barg3907 before you judge others check yourself
fisherm2n 1 year ago
@fisherm2n I appreciate your admonish and I welcome you to bring forward any evidence that you have regarding my teachings being heretical. That being said:
1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
barg3907 1 year ago
@barg3907 1 corinthians 1:10-17 man for a while I was caught up in all this talk about calvinism, armenianism, pelagianism and I don't know how many -isms, but I had to stop and realize, while I'm here as a 5 point calvinist,people are still dying and going to hell and and not doing anything about it.this is not Gods will. 2 Peter 3:9
fisherm2n 1 year ago
@fisherm2n Certainly we should all be zealous to share the Gospel, but which "-ism" we hold to will determine not only our methodology but also our Gospel. Only 1 of the three can be the true Gospel. The Pelagian position is not the Biblical Gospel and cannot save. We can look at the end results of and the cults that came from the "revivals" of Charles Finney to see the danger of the Pelagian position. This is not about Calvinism this is about orthodoxy vs. heresy.
barg3907 1 year ago
@fisherm2n yeah and I have seen some of what this guy (RW) has said like on larry King and I am very dissapointed but I know that I have sinned even after my repentence and I have to contnue repntnfrom sin timeandtime again & I just hope RW has repented of the sin he committed so he can go on to do God's will. IDK I cannot judge another man but I know that lotsa ppl openedBibles whenthey read his book.ANd that is a seed planted in thousands of heartsthat would otherwise be lost. allsins areequal
fisherm2n 1 year ago
@barg3907 its not even that difikult, warren is a CFR member, warren gives
covering to rupert murdock the owner and manipulator of the NIV and owner of the satanic bible in return for funding and murdock owns the porn industry piper needs to do research instead of excusing him
ZIONbajoTIERRA 1 year ago
@barg3907 What do you mean that regeneration has been reduced to checking a box on a card? can you explain this more
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@TheOkstate2012 First let me apologize for my flippant remarks. Sorry. My passion is not always an asset. I was referring to Warren's concept of decisional regeneration. Warren does not come out and say he is Pelagian but his writing reveals just that. "Commitment Card"- every in service fills out card, Warren invites to bow heads. He prayers "model prayer" & asks congregation to "commit to Jesus." They indicate their "decision on the commitment card."-"Purpose Driven Church," Warren, p. 303.
barg3907 1 year ago
@barg3907 Oh okay, sorry I really miss read your first response. That actually makes perfect sense. I thought for some reason you were talking about regeneration in the sense of the new creation you become when you follow Christ.
Thats why I responded, as you see why I might. haha.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@barg3907 Oh okay, sorry I really miss read your first response. That actually makes perfect sense. I thought for some reason you were talking about regeneration in the sense of the new creation you become when you follow Christ.
Thats why I responded, as you see why I might. haha.
Merry Christmas, btw
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@barg3907 dont miss pipers point though.. is pelagianism really a point to break fellowship over? notice how they both hold to a strong affirmation of soteriological truth and scriptural authority among many other things.. warren is not without faults, but also not without strengths which i believe (and piper seems to affirm) god is using
goliathbane86 11 months ago
I would not pile on about Rick Warren, but the reality is the guy does not preach the same Gospel Jesus did. His trademark book does not once present a biblical gospel.
The question is not whether you will hang out with him John, it's which four or five guys you will specifically honor by presenting at your conference. To me, it's your call but this is the reason I'd be queasy.
MichaelKeating2001 1 year ago 2
Question: Why do you not look at the contradictory statements Rick Warren has made?...
rbmath 1 year ago
@rbmath because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and because judge not lest ye be judged!!! PEople make mistakes and for that reason christ died on the cross. I guess you would cast the first stone.
fisherm2n 1 year ago
@fisherm2n The judgment forbidden is judgment done with evil or sinful motives. The bible does NOT forbid all Judgment. John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
rbmath 1 year ago
NO i will not listen to you anymore John Piper u compromising with the truth !!!and u must know it...u go defend Rick Warren all u want its not like u correcting him u hangin out with him so it means u agree with his actions..
FlawlesZMa 1 year ago 2
@FlawlesZMa Hold on and let's wait and see what happens when John returns from his sabbatical this year. Patience.
croftperkins 1 year ago
@FlawlesZMa so you only listen to what you think is the truth.and if somebody isn't preaching a fire sermon then they are teaching heresey according to your theology
fisherm2n 1 year ago
@Do0dle005 no!!!!!! u should NOT
FlawlesZMa 1 year ago
in my opinion.... John Piper didnt owe anyone that explimation
jarcar202 1 year ago
All i have to say is>Mat 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible.
Lukewarmnomore 1 year ago 3
Matthew 15:14
OpenEye73 1 year ago
Amen brother!
christologist 1 year ago
Sorry John, I'm quite disappointed in your position. You should know better than to listen to what comes out of a person's mouth without the evidence to back it up. Warren, by evidence, is a flip-flopper and people pleaser. He is afraid of Christ's gospel and that is proven by his prayer at the inaugural address. Yes, he may give it within the comfort of his own church but when done publicly, he shies away.
fastrivers 1 year ago
Pastor John, this response may be too little too late. I agree that you need not choose to fight RW, but rather hammer home the truth. To keep this short, details are left out. RW has aligned himself with the kind of Christianity that is killing the American church. He alligns himself with people like Bono who calls himself a Christian on one day and is the devil the next. He has used his influence with the S. Baptist conv. to get them on board w/ the ONE campaign. A wolf in sheeps clothing
77maximus77 1 year ago 2
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@77maximus77 "people like Bono who calls himself a Christian on one day and is the devil the next."
- Aren't we all, aren't we all, my friend. And on a side note: while all the foot soldiers of Reformed Theology are inside conducting proper exegesis and brushing up on their Greek, people like RW are actually out there on the front lines...putting their faith into action. Something that I fail at miserably.
p.s. And no, I'm not Emergent ;)
wscott16 1 year ago
If Jesus actually received our punishment, then what room is there for forgiveness? Clearly our debts can't be forgiven if they are already paid in full. Penal substitution was not the primary way that the early church understood the nature of the atonement, so one has to ask if they were neglecting the "essence" of the gospel, on Piper's view.
But I'm relieved to know that Warren isn't a five-point Calvinist. lol I didn't really think he was, but his actual theology seems a bit hazy.
ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago
Penal substitution, a 16th century atonement theory, is the "essence" of the gospel? The legal theories espoused by Anselm and Calvin were comfortable in the Latin West, but Eastern Christians have historically never thought that way. Jesus came to liberate us from enslavement to sin and death--not from his own Father. This does present some serious ethical problems about the cruel punishment of the innocent. Jesus came to reconcile us to God--not simply to appease His pitiless justice.
ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago
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Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
wfmcmd 1 year ago
Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
wfmcmd 1 year ago 2
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Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
wfmcmd 1 year ago
Rick Warren's use of Scripture in his 40 day programs is loose, superficial, and borderline proof-texting. How many different "translations / paraphrased versions" should be sited within a book or DVD series? And misuse of these Scripture references for his multi-focused points..???
His ministry focus seems more about "doing good" around the world than it is about a world coming to know Jesus Christ.
There are so many other great evangelical persons in ministry... Why choose R. Warren
wfmcmd 1 year ago
what on earth?????????john piper. i expected more from you, you know rick warren is an antichrist and you are having company with him???????????? wow!!!!!!!!!this is postitvely the great falling away, beware true christians, there is great deception everywhere. Jesus . Our LORD warned us of many becoming decieved by satan . wolves in sheeps clothing all of them! glad the LORD set me free from the church system. my advice, get out now , follow JESUS only! follow the narrow way!
soul2707 1 year ago
what on earth?????????john piper. i expected more from you, you know rick warren is an antichrist and you are having company with him???????????? wow!!!!!!!!!this is postitvely the great falling away, beware true christians, there is great deception everywhere. Jesus . Our LORD warned us of many becoming decieved by satan and using some sinister ways to do it. wolves in sheeps clothing all of them! glad the LORD set me free from the church system. my advice, get out now , follow JESUS only!
soul2707 1 year ago
QUE DESGRACIA JOHN; QUE DESGRACIA; UNIRSE A UN HOMBRE QUE NO PREDICA EL EVANGELIO. ¡QUE DESGRACIA!!!
SeHonesto 1 year ago
@SeHonesto si, de acuerdo.. Que gran desgracia.....
FlawlesZMa 1 year ago
@FlawlesZMa con quien se juntaba Jesus?
fisherm2n 1 year ago
@SeHonesto no que hay que ser la luz del mundo? con quien se juntaba Jesus?
mateo 7:1 yo no mas quiero saber si estoy equivocado? a mi me parece que ese hombre (rick warren) ha hecho errores pero todo via desea a Dios. romanos 3:23.
fisherm2n 1 year ago
Marketing God and Selling Jesus for profit - and yet you rationalize why it's ok to have him speak to the assembly? Brother, listen to the Spirit.
madamoisele1 1 year ago 2
@madamoisele1 so churches shouldn't recieve tithes either I can't stand the way churches are always trying to Get money just like a false profit to sell a book!!!!!!
fisherm2n 1 year ago
Rick Warren is worshipping himself like most Christians. He is an IMPOSTER. Very FEW know the REAL Jesus. Sin & Repentance is NOT part of MOST preachers vocabulary. Jesus ALWAYS said SIN NO MORE. How many now even know what sin is ? I even have Christians tell me that Matthew 7:21-23 refers to Christians who lose part of their reward & others say that they never were Christians. Please GET REAL with Christ now, before it is too late.
Romans1014Preach 1 year ago
@Romans1014Preach I admire you, you stated a truth on how so many christians are self worshipers,but you have to remember 2 peter 3:9 says God is patient with us and it is not his will that any should perish but all cme to repntnce. if wht everyone on here is posting is true then every person on the face of the earth is going to hell. noone isholy no not 1. guess the guy who put the star spngle banner in the hymnal are destine for hell too,they ARE GUILTY OF NATIONALISM.patriotsm=sin=nofrgivness
fisherm2n 1 year ago
Pastor John,
I am so grateful for your example of love, humility and unity. I am praying for you and for other current leaders who God has chosen to be in the spotlight in some sense, as well as for the next generation of leaders that that they will be marked by love and humility in addition to sound theology.
I can't wait to be at the THINK conference.
I'm praying that the grace of God in Rick and the grace of God in you will spur each other on to love and good deeds.
soldieroftheLord314 1 year ago 4
@soldieroftheLord314 Oh, puke! Again, let John agree with Rick on his own time, and let us all be good stewards of the time God has given us with young people.
The Truth more precious than silver or gold.
Ted2864 1 year ago
@Ted2864 yes, let us be good stewards of Truth. That good stewardship should result in a life molded by it, primarily seen in faith working through love. A huge part of love is humility.
I am grieved by how much arrogance rather than humility and love has been revealed in so many of these posts. One of my big prayers is that God will work in this upcoming generation love and humility such that our knowledge doesn't puff up.
I love John's example of love, humility, and unity in the Gospel
soldieroftheLord314 1 year ago
@soldieroftheLord314 This is fabulous! Humility...hmmmm, I'll have to look into that.
While we are pulling the 'love card', there are thousands of applications of love towards others. One good example of love is prefering your audience ( by contending for the truth and GUARDING them from error), and breeding fellowship among leaders in a more private venue. We need unity,yes. But by staying WITHIN the Gospel, not by reaching for unity with those OUTSIDE of the Gospel. This is simple, right?
darthnepp 1 year ago
While I'm not happy about this invitation, I think John Piper has had a track record that edifies the body of Christ for DECADES. Let's just see what happens and support Pastor John on this.
Pastor John, I know you'll never see this, but I support your judgment on the Biblical and Godly.
SkiesVibrant 1 year ago 3
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"I think he meant it when he started the book the Purpose Driven Life with 'it's not about you'" Oh come now John! Have you even READ the book? You're so gullible!
terriergal 1 year ago
Rick Warren is a chameleon, Piper!
Beware of him!
NarrowPathPilgrim 1 year ago
death Escape .com
istreetwitness 1 year ago
This is an interesting topic (seperation) that interests me.
John, what would you say to someone who accused you of being, shall we say, a muslim (despite this obvious falsehood) and a liar in everything you say - simply because you had a dialogue (such as you describe with Rick) with an elder of the Islamic faith?
The basis of 'common ground' here, theoretically, being worship of the same Abrahamic god and a non-antagonistic attitude towards discussing theoligical difference.
& if pos, WWJD?
BrianJ1962 1 year ago
The problem with Rick Warren, as I see it - while his answers to John were "correct", his public face has been quite contrary to these statements presented here.
When asked of Jesus Christ was the ONLY way - he has waffled. That by itself is enough to have questions about Warren.
ThePreacherMan 1 year ago 3
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gorgebridge 1 year ago
shouldn't we be WANTING warren to be around piper? maybe God could use piper in warren's life and bring him back. getting sick of people jumping and screaming negatively about all of this.
juasmith1 1 year ago 4
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@juasmith1:
That's like saying, "Shouldn't we be WANTING Potiphar's wife to be around Joseph? Maybe God could use Joseph in her life and to bring her to God."
Winking at sin leads to sorrow; bold reproof brings peace (Prov 10:10).
Nilyentaraka 1 year ago
@juasmith1 Cause there's a difference between having him with you (i agree, that's good), or putting him in front of all your impressionable children as 'someone to learn from'.
O.K., I'm a rocket scientist?!
Ted2864 1 year ago
Dear Pastor John:
I know that Rick Warren believes and understand all those precious doctrines and even the true gospel of Jesus Christ. The problem is that every time he has the opportunity to proclaim those truths, literally to the world, in his interviews, among politics, in his books, among leaders of other religions, ALWAYS seems to forget all of that. Also his books PDC and PDL are filled with non biblical methods and thoughts.
realrevelation007 1 year ago
So glad to find this video. Hard to understand how people can criticize Ps Warren after someone like Ps John Piper can speak directly with him and hear his heart and beliefs. I read Purpose Driven Life in 2003 and I could find much of what people were criticizing him about. Hats off to Ps John Piper for reaching out in the Spirit of Christ and testing and evaluating Ps Warren. Also hats off for his humility and willingness to unify the Body of Christ. I am encouraged by this.
COGHOBDOJ 1 year ago 2
Dear friends, Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit by declaring the work of God, that Rick is accomplishing, the work of satan. Rick's doctrine is orthodox and his ministry has been blessed here and around the world. He has much to teach us about actually accomplishing the Great Commission and we should come to the conference with ears that are eager to hear what God will say through him. Many of us are so far removed from the lost of this world that we don't understand Rick's ministry.
thoughtsjustsome 1 year ago
We need to look at ourselves and make sure we're not being a little legalistic here. Pastor Warren brings to word of Jesus Christ to MANY non-believers. This bickering about him is saddening...
coreydstone 1 year ago
By the way, for those of you who are chomping at the bit to see what Warren will have to say @ the DG conference, count on it sounding pretty Reformed. The same way he sounds supportive of Islam around muslims and Judaism around Jews.
fggerv 1 year ago
@fggerv You are absolutely right. I cringed when I heard Piper was allowing him at the conference.
soughtnsaved 1 year ago
@fggerv ... because you, like most people hate criticism and working on your own faults when you can focus oh his/others. If Jesus was alive (in his Gospels era incarnation form) you would not want him to attend your High Priest Piper's Festival of Discovering G-d. G-d and Christ are/is supportive of Muslims, and Jews and Catholics and even you whenever they/we are not being unLoving of our neighbor. Be un"supportive" in private once you have shown you have, from G-d, discipline&trustworthns
613simcha 1 year ago
Why don't we just forget about making a difference and taking a stand for Christ and his words, and let's just all have a "lovein" instead? This is pretty much the philosophy over at Fuller Theological Seminary, to reject no man who "names the name of Jesus", no matter what his doctrine. Piper is showing himself more and more to be a product of this. What's next for JP? The Evangelical Roman Catholic priest, who "believes in the authority of the Bible and rejects the Papacy...... sort of?"
fggerv 1 year ago
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A Few Things:
1) I'm dissapointed in Pastor John. Listen to a selection of Pastor Warren's sermons (which I have) you don't see these "central things" anywhere.
2) Purpose Driven Life? Day 1, it's not about me - it's about God. Day 2-40, it's ALL ABOUT ME.
3) I am excited to attend this conference. I am excited to hear from Rick Warren, and am praying that the conference itself will transform his teaching - his audience is pretty massive.
firstfreeyouth 1 year ago
A Few Things:
1) I'm dissapointed in Pastor John. Listen to a selection of Pastor Warren's sermons (which I have) you don't see these "central things" anywhere.
2) Purpose Driven Life? Day 1, it's not about me - it's about God. Day 2-40, it's ALL ABOUT ME.
3) I am excited to attend this conference. I am excited to hear from Rick Warren, and am praying that the conference itself will transform his teaching - his audience is pretty massive.
firstfreeyouth 1 year ago
As all of us, people make mistakes and i guess i've seen a lot of Warren's missunderstandings on certain subjects, but he still has, like all of us, God's grace and mercy to abide on. So John Piper is an amazing man of God, and Rick Warren as far as what people consider being wrong with him... we all under God aren't we...we should all see to our personal lives and take what God tells us to be GOOD and BIBLICAL out of people's teachings.
sergiusal 1 year ago
Jesus seemed pretty comfortable being associated w/ people that could confuse people about his beliefs. "secondary separation" = If I see value in someone that you don't, we can still be friends and support each other. Crazy concept. Sad thing is Christians seem to have to spend so much time trying to figure out who can be "held at arm’s length". Creates false comfort w/ my team. Maybe if Christian's beat on each other enough about their beliefs they can have Balaam's Ass speak next yr.
ruby1834 1 year ago
Why can't Piper say "I feel like Rick Warren's ministry shows that he has a word for our group, so feel free to join us at our conference.? Why does Piper feel the need to state he is going to try to change Rick's mind about atonement? If Piper wants to do that, that is fine but why tell everybody. It sounds like Piper is somehow trying to defend his decision to have Rick speak by inferring that by having Rick he may get the chance to convert him to "our" team.
ruby1834 1 year ago
How do you deal with situations like this? You go to the scriptures and not to your opinions or your feelings. If only Christians would have learned to submit to the apostolic directives contained in Rom. 16:17, 2 John 10-11, Gal. 1:8-9 when it comes to matters of ecclesiastical separation, we wouldn't have the confusing mess that exists today regarding Christian unity. Advice. Read Martyn Lloyd-Jones, J. Gresham Machen and previous if you want to avoid this kind of vexation of soul.
fggerv 1 year ago
@fggerv You seem well read. Have you ever heard of John Phillips?
soughtnsaved 1 year ago