After being asked whether Milton had been poor, he replied "of course... how many of you worked a 12-hour day and gotten paid 78 cents?" Milton was born in 1912, so if he earned that wage between 14 and 24 years of age, that would be between $10-$14 today. How hypocritical to simultaneously criticize minimum wage laws and implicitly decry the wage earned while being poor? This is precisely why minimum wage laws were enacted; to prevent wage slavery and a "race to the bottom."
If you are not real you should not be any government representative, if you do not know what is actually going on all over this nation which has been stolen and sold out to corporate consolidations, the facts are the facts, so what is sovereignty when there can be no independence as one must work hard for what they want, and then we have lazy persons who have no skills, and we have people who simply do not want to work who are leppars of society which play any con. Lock um all up.
Any roll of the government is to protect the people from transgression, so why does government have laws which promote freedom within any religious belief? Why does government control education, and the economy within regulations allowed through insurance companies etc, the problems are economic, government does not do anything, persons do who makes laws and regulations to get away with murder, like war is trying to tell any persons which worship nationalism within any imaginary world view.
@DrFruedienslip And then of course there is any paternal obligation within having children and sharing common principles and social discretionary respects, and here we have welfare mothers who are preconditioned within any envirionment especially impoverished conditions which have little to no opportunity to exceed so they are conditioned within any repression which isnt a word, its real and is transgression affilliated which is a social disease of the mind, mouth and resentment
Ayn Rand can suck my dyck. I wonder how much that will cost me? lol I remember Dangny Taggart telling Hank Rearden that to fuck her was going to cost him in Atlas Shrugged. A stupid book.
@mredstriumph Greenspan was a schlep who destroyed the American economy even more than his predecessors. The focus on short term profits has created a system of offshoring, financialization and speculatory bubbles. He and all the neoliberals ought be dumped from any position of influence their ideas have proven faulty.
So his suggestion for the poor is to get on a boat, destroy a civilization, appropriate their resources for free and industrialize with massive government support and tariffs? These romantic visions the Chicago school holds for the "classical era" is so distorted it should make anyone with an education laugh. Also he recommends that poor blacks go to private school? with what? This man is an apologist for elitism and he distorts the historical role of government's in the past. Neoliberal scum
@JayGatsbyOdysseus I know they are vicious little snakes aren't they? And they multiply hahaha I work in Agricultural economics and these state-capitalist freidmanites are everywhere championing what they call "freedom" while demanding handouts and research from the government, then they have the gaul to attack the poor for asking of their government, sick people. Maybe they read too much Ayn Rand.
@drumbist I know it and it is a failure of a system and based on destabilizing education then transferring public money as the actual facilities to the hands of private profit. I know the system and it destroyed New Orleans and it ought to be feared in America, public education needs reform not a private voucher system. No "free market" solution exists for education it is all subsidized by the government and therefore should stay the responsibility of the government.
@halflifeproductionz And the way he blatantly lies and distorts history. His suggestion for the poor is to get on a boat, destroy a civilization, appropriate their resources for free and industrialize with massive government support and tariffs and he says it calmly, bravo.
He says we have no responsibility then he says we have a responsibility to educate them. That's a big contradiction. If we should educate them then it is easy to argue we should do many other things as well. Thus, his answer is a non-answer. That's all I am trying to say here.
You are up in arms about a false contradiction. He is clearly noting that the public school system is deeply flawed and the government forces those individuals to use it regardless. We made the horror known as the public school system and also the regulations and teacher's unions that make it difficult to start and maintain a private school. Individual responsibility to educate goes beyond a single government program.
@AUScorpion, the gov only forces school, not public school. What have they done to make it difficult to start a privet school? Cant be too much because Atalanta is choc full of them! XD Also, most Atlanta public schools are pretty good. The ones outside of Atlanta, not so good. Seems like the higher the tax base the better the school.
If you still believe in the suiccess of capitalism open your eyes, if you still believe the free market eliminates poverty walk through your town's and cities and contemplate what you witness.
@nathfrancis01 Define poverty. Poverty in America means only owning one TV or computer. There has been no greater system than capitalism at raising people out of poverty and increasing the living standards for all.
@boshembechle Over 45 million people on food stamps I would consider to be poverty stricken. When somebody cannot afford the necessaries of life through their own endevours I would judge them to be living in poverty.
@nathfrancis01 What I witness is government intervention and a lack of incentives. I see a myopic government which creates certain welfare programs that have no long term effects. Welfare programs destroy the motivation to work because people will become reliant upon government programs instead of being responsible for themselves. The reason why you don't believe free-market eliminates poverty is because right now, gov. programs eliminate work and therefore hinder capitalism.
@intimidatingusername What a fallacious and insolent response. You see government intervention as a cause of poverty? If the U.S government did not bailout failing free-market companies the failure of capuitalism would be profoundly more evident. That is to say government intervention is masking the failure of the free -market system NOT shining a light on it.
@nathfrancis01 No it masking it. Government intervention is making it worse. Those companies should of went under and the companies that performed properly would of rose in the ranks because of the failure of the companies that were bailed out. Thus the services would of been improved because the companies that did not need bailed out would of attracted more capital.
@DanielJMoore1991 In predatory capitalism might is right, so the companies that "performed properly" as you put it did not feel compelled morally to invest sensibly it just so happened that they got a small enough slice of the pie which would not consume their business when everything went wrong.
@nathfrancis01 Simple logic. 'Too big to fail'(myass) companies knowing that they would be bailed out in case of malinvestments took excessive risks that they wouldnt have taken otherwise in a free market by loaning to people that THEY knew wouldnt be able to pay it off. Then came the crash and demanded to be bailed out. Hence Gov intervention caused the bubbles and the crashes.
@kwnnlhs It is rather presumptuous to claim that these people took excessive risks because they knew the government would bail them out that is certainly a logical conclusion but either way it is just speculation. I would argue that the bonuses paid to invetment bankers, hedge fund managers etc motivate them to act in self intrest and not really care about the sustainability of the company. There are numerous cases where renagade investors put personal profit ahead of company success.
The gangster unions who intentionally made crappy cars in the 60's, 70's, and 80's and couldn't care less?
The steel mill unions in Pittsburgh who strangled the businesses and supported local politicians to tax everything they couldn't bargain away, break in protest, or outright steal on their own?
Good lookin out fellas. China thanks you for your service.
Public sector unions who bankrupted every state,fed,&locl budget?
@mredstriumph Jonas Salk didn't act in self intrest when he refused to patent his polio vaccine, Edward Jenner called his smallpox vaccine his "gift to the world" and didn't become wealthy from it. Considering the smallpox vaccine was the first vaccine and that Jenner is the "father of immunology", I have to ask where was the profit motive to make probably the most important invention ever? Newton didn't write principia mathemateca for profit. Van Gogh sold only 2 of his artworks in his lifetime
Sure, its a nice thing that Salk did, but then again he was a wealthy doctor who married a very well to do woman. Here's a question for you.. did Salk practice medicine & perform research for free? Or did he work for pay - out of self interest?
Newton is history's greatest genius, but saying he didn't profit from his work is absurd. He became famous & wanted for nothing - through publishing his work. U are the 1st to claim he austerely denied all self-interests as principle.
As far as I know, Newton was never known as a collectivist, socialist, or utopian of any fashion. In fact, he was a friend of John Locke and supported the concept of 'Natural Law' which affirmed intrinsic individual personal rights of life, liberty, and property.
That's hardly the kind of thing a socialist, collectivist, or utopian / totalitarian gets excited about.
@mredstriumph I never claimed Newton went unrewarded for his endevours, I merely stated that he did not comprise his greatest work "principia mathematica" with the goal of finnancial reward. He was reassured of finnancial security long before he comprised the principia. By all accounts his sole motive was his love of science and his satisfaction in understanding the natural world.
@mredstriumph These economists are just sad philosophers they take one element of human kind (self interest) and deny that any others exist (altruism) and base their model on a period of time (the "classical economy") that was marked by massive government intervention, protectionism, and imperial robbery of resources. Let's bury Freidman and his sad ideas.
@konnichiwa53 I'm not sure of the context here, but economics has almost nothing to do with philosophy. I can reliably predict consumer behavior with economics in, say 19 cases out of 20. Also, it's not just self-interest, it's also fear. Altruism is a part of self-interest.
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS Capitalism can only exist under conditions of pure equality and perfect liberty-Smith, you are joking when you use the word capitalism right? What we have is state-corporate oligopoly which masquerades as capitalism. I am tired of people blaming the poor for everything, top government expenditures are grossly inflated military budgets and the health care system (which is so expensive because of its private nature) Both of these are anomalies of the USA
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS no, the scientists and entrepreneurs push society forward, some are rich, most are either poor or middle class. I would love to know how you see bankers pushing society forward, you are in support of socialism for the rich, and have a very anti-intellectual approach to it no less.
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS haha, you mean problems like child labor laws? and minimum wage? the FDA?
if we could only live in your Utopian society where we work for .50 cents a day, our ten year olds can work in steel mills and we'll all have cadmium soup for supper.
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS good job, you've managed to highlight the particular problems that come with every organization.
if you want to do without these things, then fuck off to China or India so you can enjoy their wonder labor system and lack of health regulations, or just stay here and cry like a little bitch. I don't have time for your bullshit either way. peace
@mredstriumph In the case of Salk the money he made as a doctor and researcher is irrelevant, I was just stating that in that instant he didn't act in self intrest. The point is when he created the polio vaccine he was faced with a choice, either he could patent it and it would become unobtainable for poor children or he could sacrifice his own wealth to ensure that the children who needed it would have it. He would not have faced an ultimatum of that magnitude as an ordinary physician.
@mredstriumph Just out of curiosity, if during the cold war a US citizen decided to act in self intrest and obeyed the profit motive to sell secrets to the USSR for a huge sum of money would you think them to be an exemplary student of the free market system? Or what is soldiers in WW2 storming Normandy had refused to do so without financial reward. The profit motive finds it's home in matters of frivolity. Compassion is the human default setting in times of importance.
The failure of the free-market? Then what happened to Fannie Mae?
Fannie got a larger bailout than AIG, Goldman, BoA, Lehman, & every other bank COMBINED.Plus the banks will pay back the money they received. Most already have. Fannie & Freddy - who got the majority of the $ - don't plan to paying anyone back ever.
Maybe u believe the government narrative that giving bad loans is a profit strategy?
And that paying ZERO DOWN on a LOW INTEREST LOAN for a house much nicer than u can afford, which u never pay back, & took "equity" loans against to buy vacations, furniture, & cars makes u a victim of a predator?
Who got benefit &who goes broke? The victim who walks away or predtr bank?
Heck, you're probably the type of guy who thinks the way to cure "too big to fail" is to close small banks?
What I witness is cars, homes & property that BELONG to other people.
What I don't see are the free televisions, cell phones, & automobiles that grew on trees and were gathered by the fortunate. Nor do I see things belonging to others that I have a right to just get two other people together to "vote" on & make decisions about.
I wonder what secret "army" "capitalism" has that forces all those people to OWN their property? What impels this "unfair"&"unnatural" practice/system?
The government would have less reprehensibility to support the ppl if they let them have more freedom to sell their things and support themselves however they can. TOTALLY FREE COMMERCE!!! TOTAL FREE SOCIETY!!! they call it free here , but how many hoops and permits ya gotta get before the man lets you set up shop?? How many poor ppl can afford these and start their own businesses?!! We need to remove communism from the US (stop looking at the gov for support!!!!!) and re-install FREEDOM!!
The prob is the INSTITUTIONALIZATION of progressive policies
The only solution is to dismantle big govt institutions, the welfare state, & the Federal Reserve Bank that progressives designed 2bankroll big government (thru debt) without directly raising taxes
Until these are gone, no matter who holds office - Dems, Repubs, or Pedro - its progressive big-plan Dems Woodrow Wilson, FDR, & "Great Society" LBJ who rule society & wait between election cycles to expand their grasp.
Mexico is actually a kick ass country ! I mean if it were'nt for the government and the fact that ppl so poor. Mexico is virtually what the US wishes to be lol...
In Mexico though ANYBODY can drop a blanket and sell on the street in designated areas without government tellin ppl you need permits! How free are you when you have to ask for permission to peddle in order to feed ur family? Too many hoops to go into business for yourself in US, not free like MEXICO!!!!!
What he said about Minimum wage is absolutely true. Minimum wage can be replaced with "discrimination against low skilled workers" and it would mean the same thing. And too often people point out that without minimum wage, we would be earning pennies. That is simply not true. If that were true, how could we buy things. If we couldn't buy things, how would any company survive? The wage issue would be solved by the market. The workers would flock to the companies that offered higher wages.
@boshembechle thats right, why should a person that works hard at any job struggle? I work hard and I have skills and I still get only a little more than minimum wage and the part that bugs me is my employer can't afford much more than that. The real problem is the corrupt monetary system in my country and the welfare system that encourages laziness and failure, we all pay for that tenfold.
He admitted himself that there will always be poor people under a free market with no government intervention and we are supposed to see this as a good thing? Why are people so obsessed about eliminating the minimum wage? All you have to do is look at China and India and realize that you will get paid pennies. Sure everyone might have a job but barely getting by. Am I getting it wrong?
@Shnimberz No, its not good that people are poor. He says as much. His point is that the free market is better than any of the alternatives. There will always be the 'poor' if you define them to be the people at the lower end of the economic spectrum, but our free market poor tend to be much better off than the rest of the world's poor. People in China and India get paid pennies because their work product is worth as much. If China set a minimum wage of $10, no one woud hire the unskilled labor.
@TG1212able Firstly thank you for the intelligent and kind response. Who decides what the value of their job is? Why should a bus driver in India get paid pennies while a bus driver in the U.S. get paid maybe $12 dollars an hour when they are doing the same job actually the bus driver in India has a much more difficult job considering the poor work conditions and the chaos on the roads in India. I'm sure the same argument was said when the minimum wage was introduced here about unskilled labor.
@Shnimberz Its basic Econ 101. Supply and Demand. Increase S and price goes down; increase D and P goes up. In India, there aren't as many opportunities for high paying jobs, so more people are willing to be bus drivers. In the US, its the reverse, so less are willing to be bus drivers as better options exist. Thus, S of bus drivers is higher in India than in the US, so the price is lower. Also, I suspect that the D for transportation is higher in the US, so Americans are willing to pay more.
@Shnimberz How does this relate to minimum wage? Everyone initially gets paid more. With the extra money they demand more products. D goes up, P goes up, and the initial benefits of the minimum wage are gone. Except, now, the money that would have been kept by the bosses instead of spent on the legally imposed wages is gone or diminished, and so it can't be as readily invested. Investments build factories, which increase S. So now, its harder to increase S, prices can't go back down.
How reassuring to learn that people in the Soviet Union, India and China earn less that those below the poverty line in the US. I wonder if these foreign folk are expected to hand over the bulk of their earnings in order to have a roof over their heads? Why with India being a democratic, capitalist society are people are dying in the streets.? I guess the benefits will trickle down any day now.Fast forward to 2012, only the mafia is flourishing in Russia and China (the commies) own America.
I think people really believe the second thing he said is racist: 'discriminate against them by not allowing employers to pay below a minimum wage.' Since minimum-wage jobs usually don't require an education he's probably inferring that blacks are generally at least viewed as on average less productive due to some inherent genetic defect ie relative stupidity or laziness... The question isn't even open, the differences are statistically miniscule and demographically retarded...
1st - Public school system doesn't make blacks not having jobs. If there was no public school system, how would they go to school?
2nd - The welfare system transfers money upwards down. Much of rich people's capital is much more productive if it's transferred to the poor to boost consumption. They only invest a part of the capital in the productive economy.
These economists aren't scientists, they base what they say in anecdotal evidence. They're more politicians than anything else.
@TradingTutor 1st - There is a difference between governments funding education and governments running education. Not sure if it was Milton or not but someone once suggested having educational 'coupons' supplied by the government which could be spent at any legitimate educational institution. This would create competition, i.e. a school obtaining good results would have more demand, and be able to expand their method of education.
@TradingTutor 2nd- The idea that money sits around and does nothing in stimulating the economy is more or less a myth, and where it's not true is due to crony capitalism to do with the production of money from nothing by the Fed. No matter where you put your money (except for under the bed) you can trace it to a direct investment in a company which would be used to pay employees or purchase equipment manufactured by a company that employs people.
@RealRacer69 Yes I think Friedman said that about the coupons. But I think that's much more expensive than running public schools, and public schools don't have to be bad. In Europe every country has public schools, and they do ok. The students can access college if they want, or go to work if they want.
And how does a trader who uses money to speculate helps the economy? He has to have money deposited alright, but it's not even a savings account...
@TradingTutor Free markets have always proved to be cheaper and more innovative then monopolies even if it takes a few decades to get there.
People should have the right to own assets and if you disagree then that should apply to all, rich and poor.
Speculation is a healthy part of the economy: lets say it was predicted that the next years harvest would be poor. People would buy wheat as it's price will go up next year. This drives the current price up to until it reaches... (continued)
@TradingTutor ...a point where the price takes into account the supply and demand over 2 years assuming next year will be a poor harvest.
Now lets say it was a poor harvest. The speculation has stopped people over eating in the good year, meaning there is a decent supply of food now despite the poor harvest.
If the year turned out to be good there is now an abundance of food and it's price would fall dramatically. Those who speculated lose out, but everyone gets cheap food.
@TradingTutor The public school system is most certainly a monopoly. 90% of people can't send their kids to private schools for whatever reason (cost mainly), and don't have the resources to home school, and so are forced, BY LAW to send their kids for 10 years to a government run institution. They have no choice.
Now I believe that any education is better than none but why not allow for the free market to add choice and improve the quality of educational methods.
@RealRacer69 Adding on to that....letting education be a market would do wonders for the inner city. Parents could get send their kids to safer schools to get a better education. But, as you know, Democrats need people to stay poor for support.
@RealRacer69 A monopoly is a situation where a firm can influence price and output of a product or service, and prevent competition. In this case the service is to deliver good students. Even if there are many more public schools than private, there's no way this could happen, because private schools can still deliver good students independently of public schools existing or not. And there exists a market for private schools, so the public schools aren't preventing competition. Coupons cost alot
Moron crosses his arms when Milton slaps him down. People who live in wealthy countries will find a way to try & find poverty in order to substantiate their own moral worth or excuse their feelings of guilt, when in actuality, poverty in the US is a joke compared to third world countries. The poor in third world countries don't have TVs.
@Sage80 More than that, I would say. Don't necessarily blame him for thinking that way. When you see govt. win a world war on two fronts and put 12 men on the moon, it's hard not to think that govt. should do something about the poor. And that is what we have to combat. Because it's tough to fight that motif because it's so powerful, with the backing of the media that finds no fault with Democrat govt. at all, but only when a Republican is in office. That's tough to fight.
The "trickle-down" Theory: The principle that the poor, who must subsist on table scraps dropped by the rich, can best be served by giving the rich bigger meals.
Even American slaves were THE top 1% in living-standards among African slaves worldwide; their numbers increased SIX TIMES from family-growth, while everywhere else they either remained constant or perished completely.
@SouthParkBear Comparatively speaking, yes, it is better to be poor in America than to be poor in a country like Somalia, for example. (whether we're talking 100 years ago or now). However, it doesn't address the central issue of how many were in poverty during that time.
@SouthParkBear Comparatively speaking, yes, it is better to be poor in America than to be poor in a country like Somalia, for example. (whether we're talking 100 years ago or now). However, it doesn't address the central issue of how many were in poverty during that time.
On the point of disadvantaged blacks, what private system would be able to profitably and properly educate those from families with a tiny income to begin with? Why would it be profitable to pay skilled workers more when they could subsist on less? What then, in a world with such giant corporate industrial monopolies, would prevent a system where workers would only be paid a subsistence rate and an economic serfdom would ensue before it collapses due to the absence of a middle class?
No but any business which wants to maximise its profit will want to have the lowest cost:revenue ratio possible. That will include wage costs. In practice you are seeing work being outsourced internationally to decrease labour cost where it becomes more economical to ship things from one side of the world and back. Consumer demand for both more goods and lower prices increases, but somebody has to do the work.
There's an ethical dilema in work outsourcing here, people need jobs.
@InnuendoXP "...any business which wants to maximise its profit will want to have the lowest cost:revenue ratio possible."
No, that assumption is inferior to the 'equimarginal principle' from the microeconomic theory of the firm. The equimarginal principle is "The principle that an activity should be pursued to the point where marginal cost equals marginal benefit." You must understand, this principle is used to disprove assumptions about costs such as the one you're making now.
@DOHC2L Well you always want to optimize cost-benefit for maximum bottom-line.
The issue here is that anti-capitalists will claim that this will induce producers to increase profits by skimping on safety; however they ignore that doing so would cost more in lawsuits than it would save-- because they hate lawyers and litigation as well, believing in a nation of men and not of laws!
@InnuendoXP On the point of disadvantaged blacks, what private system would be able to profitably and properly educate those from families with a tiny income to begin with?
Charter schools can compete for tax moneys attached to the children instead of to zipcodes and failed government schools. Competition to oppose this government monopoly will do more with less and gain from this successful efficiency rather than be penalized for it.
@InnuendoXP said [[Why would it be profitable to pay skilled workers more when they could subsist on less?]]
Because competitors in a free market compete for skilled workers. You're paying for talent and expertise. People want to do more than merely subsist, so they'll go with the best job offer and situation.
I'm voting for antibama, whomever that proves to be. Socialism (small 's') and record deficit spending and social dependency programs are killing our nation, especially the impoverished.
1:50 I love how this arrogant punk is folding his arms like the world owes him something, and that he is somehow superior to others. Asshole. And he's the compassionate one? I don't think so.
@masluxx did you just hear his explanation? holy shit i cant stand you fucking people. Screaming 'racist' over a freaking fact just to sound politically correct without looking at the reality and how to solve the problem...
@kwnnlhs all i say was,"did he just say, negros are not productive enough to make minium wage "...He did in fact say that. What ever also you else you read into it is your PreJudice.
@stankmaw how was my reply racist?? minimum wage laws hurt the economy by diminishing the ability of employers to hire more people looking to enter the job market lacking job experience... the group of people that is hurt by that fact moreso than others are young blacks and minorities in general. this is my point. Whats racist by pointing out the reality and offering ways to solve it?
@kwnnlhs minimum wage laws keep the wages artificially low, you have it backwards. It has the opposite effect of what they tell you, it's a way to make valuable workers into slaves.
@MrROTD Jesus use your logic will you? Minimum wage keeps employers from hiring more workers. Hence rising entry salaries AND unemployment.. What THEY( who?) tell me isnt necessary to understand what is going on... You just made a, simply put, DUMB statement and think you made a point... no sir Minimum wage hurts the economy and simple logic is all you need to understand it
@kwnnlhs it isn't just minorities, it hurts anyone that just needs a job , we all can't be doctors or lawyers so why should a hard working person have to accept slave wages?
@kwnnlhs The UNIONs & OBAMA's BIG GOVERNMENT need minimum wage because with a $10 salary, almost half of it goes to UNION dues, social security, state, & federal taxes.OBAMA's big government mooches off the poor. So they end up making below minimum wage.They pass these taxes onto small businesses hence no JOBS in the private sector while government UNION DMV/Postal cubicle hamsters make 6 figure salaries.OBAMA & the Democratic cronies steal from the poor & bankrupt small businesses!
@kwnnlhs Its funny how history is rewritten or forgot, look at Chile and what happened when they removed it. And in lots of other countrys it did not improve the number employed it just made the companies very rich.
If the company has no lack of workers lining up, why would he pay them a fair wage? Just enough to get by, so they keep coming back to him, but no more.
@Forjugadname I am not knowledgable in the topic of Chile and i wont pretend that i am since i havent read any literature about that.Dont take that as a copout because i dont want to debate on issues i am not knowledgable. As for the rest of your post. Who determines a fair wage? I determine that a fair wage is that everyone should be able to afford luxurious trips to the carribean, are companies obligated to provide that? The market determines the wages. No one else has the power to do so.
@kwnnlhs No I completely agree with you, i misread what you typed because you said; "did you just hear his explanation? holy shit i cant stand you fucking people." If I am not mistaken, you people meant youtubers.. i thought you were saying I hate you people as in I hate you "black people"
@kwnnlhs It was racist and condescending to boot. Remember, first of all at one point in American history it was illegal to educate Black people, then when universal free education was established, the facilities was "separate but equal" with equal being defined by the non majority population who dominated the economic control . If not for "government interference" the same conditions very well would have continued.
@DAngelo136 said [[ It was racist and condescending to boot. Remember, first of all at one point in American history it was illegal to educate Black people]]]
Democrats. [[..then when universal free education was established, the facilities was "separate but equal" with equal being defined by the non majority population who dominated the economic control .]]
Democrats.
[[If not for "government interference" the same conditions very well would have continued.]]
@masluxx No; what he's saying is the minimum wage law has been bad to the black community because not only do most black people go to the worst schools, but the minimum wage laws disallow those black people who have went to those disadvantaged schools to get a job, get training and skills and move up in society because a firm can not hire the labor for a cheap cost because it is required that they hire them at a certain rate...
@stankmaw what he said "...will not hire them unless thier productivity is enough to justify paying them minimum wage", what does school have to do with minimum wage jobs anyhow? Does it really take a BS or a BA to flip burgers or work in a warehouse? How does what he said transulate into what you heard w/o some preconcieved ideas that you want to hear?
@masluxx You are not addressing the entire argument but only a portion of it.. I do agree with you, no you should not need a BA or BS to work in a warehouse you flip burgers;
@stankmaw nor can everyone work in an office someone has to flip burgers and work in warehouses. For some to think those people should live in squallier while they are doing their part to help society function is nothing short of self centered self entitlement. In fact that "class" of people are the doers, they are the ones doing things, making things providing services that are making the self entitled the very capital that makes them high on themselves.
govt. isnt responsible for the poor, people are responsible!".....Govt. is an extension of the will of the people, and an agreed upon governing body of which we have input, genius. God, Friedman is such a jackass fake. This whole idea that the "free market" is some neutral economic system that hasnt produced inequality and sustained it through power relationships is so fuckin absurd.
@dmowings ....no. A developed and advanced society is one that balances the needs and agency of society as a whole in order to promote the general welfare of the populous. This is a constitutional principle. A society advances if its citizens are well-educated and granted the ability to pursue life, liberty and happiness. Problem is, people think those constitutional ideas are the special property of the rich and elite.
The free market is not what took people out of poverty during the industrial age. It was oil and the mechanization of labor. The idea that the free market will feed the poor is nonsense. We spend more money on a cure for baldness than we do on a cure for malaria. Why? Because of Milton Freedman and his bald free market head. Wake up.
This is the "old" school of economics, coming from adam smith. It sais no government, the market will solve all problems. Doesn't really work perfektly. The other school is build by Keynes, who said that government must intervene where the markets doesn't work. Switzerland is a pretty good example of that policy, and look where we are ;)
@MareSwiss Don't forget that Government intervention can't make anybody better off without making somebody worse off ... that's the whole dilemma of Government intervention .. I know that capitalism is flawed in practice and human labor is treated like any other input , but I believe it's the best available alternative .. and the other problems should be dealt with morally rather than economically .. what do you think ??
@SuperScarfacejr you are completly right. There is always a trade-off between allocation and (re)distribution. And we have to ask what would be fair? There is no easy solution and every country has to balance it. If we look at the U.S.A we see the system is fucked up. The top 1% owns about 40% and the bottom 80% owns 7% (depends on what statistic). Switzerland is unfortunately going in the same direction (as the whole world).
@MareSwiss but in comparison to other nations the swiss got a pretty strong social safety net, and with that comes other benefits, like that the people feel more secure and are less likely to do crimes. We invest also much (copared to others) in education, and therefore people are more likely to find a job after being fired. Only one benefit of education. Best one is still the advanced productivity the more education you have. 500 characters is not enough for this subject xD
@MareSwiss And your nation is very unique. From my very superficial knowledge about Switzerland , it's political relationships , advantages given to entrepreneur , financial system , ..etc. all seems very tempting for investing ... and about the crime rates , I think it has to do with education .. I've always believed that education positively enhance human behavior :) ... And by the way I'm not from the U.S , I'm from Egypt
@SuperScarfacejr You are absolutely right! education does enhance human behavior because he is more aware of his ods and benefits. He knows that if he commits a crime he will be less benefited if he gets caught by going to jail rather than working to achieve something that doesn't involve getting into harms way. Individual responsibility is very important.
@MareSwiss Yeah but the problem is , Governments usually go to entrepreneurs for a "quick dollar" ... and I don't know about those numbers but do you know the "less fortunate" living in the U.S.A are way better than the less fortunate in most places , including places where governments intervene as often as they can .
With capitalist globalization, jobs move as capitalists export factories and even entire industries to other countries. Millions of people continuously live below the poverty level; many suffer homelessness and hunger. Institutionalized racism provides billions in extra profits for the capitalists every year due to the unequal pay racially oppressed workers receive for work of comparable value.Women still face a considerable differential in wages for work of equal or comparable value.
I hope that bloke who asked the question took his latern jaw, and dark brooding, but somehow compassionate good looks and went into television or the movies.
After being asked whether Milton had been poor, he replied "of course... how many of you worked a 12-hour day and gotten paid 78 cents?" Milton was born in 1912, so if he earned that wage between 14 and 24 years of age, that would be between $10-$14 today. How hypocritical to simultaneously criticize minimum wage laws and implicitly decry the wage earned while being poor? This is precisely why minimum wage laws were enacted; to prevent wage slavery and a "race to the bottom."
punkyvid 9 hours ago
Milton Friedman is such a G
falleruen 19 hours ago
If you are not real you should not be any government representative, if you do not know what is actually going on all over this nation which has been stolen and sold out to corporate consolidations, the facts are the facts, so what is sovereignty when there can be no independence as one must work hard for what they want, and then we have lazy persons who have no skills, and we have people who simply do not want to work who are leppars of society which play any con. Lock um all up.
DrFruedienslip 1 day ago
Any roll of the government is to protect the people from transgression, so why does government have laws which promote freedom within any religious belief? Why does government control education, and the economy within regulations allowed through insurance companies etc, the problems are economic, government does not do anything, persons do who makes laws and regulations to get away with murder, like war is trying to tell any persons which worship nationalism within any imaginary world view.
DrFruedienslip 1 day ago
@DrFruedienslip And then of course there is any paternal obligation within having children and sharing common principles and social discretionary respects, and here we have welfare mothers who are preconditioned within any envirionment especially impoverished conditions which have little to no opportunity to exceed so they are conditioned within any repression which isnt a word, its real and is transgression affilliated which is a social disease of the mind, mouth and resentment
DrFruedienslip 1 day ago
Ayn Rand can suck my dyck. I wonder how much that will cost me? lol I remember Dangny Taggart telling Hank Rearden that to fuck her was going to cost him in Atlas Shrugged. A stupid book.
JayGatsbyOdysseus 2 days ago
@JayGatsbyOdysseus agreed stupid book, sick woman, and friend of Greenspan yuck, and people call her a hero?
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
@konnichiwa53
In all fairness, Greenspan has done a complete philosophical 180 and is almost exactly opposite of whom he was when Rand knew him.
w w w - DOT - 321gold - DOT - com/fed/greenspan/1966 - DOT - html
mredstriumph 2 days ago
@mredstriumph Greenspan was a schlep who destroyed the American economy even more than his predecessors. The focus on short term profits has created a system of offshoring, financialization and speculatory bubbles. He and all the neoliberals ought be dumped from any position of influence their ideas have proven faulty.
konnichiwa53 1 day ago
@mredstriumph
Greenspan is an oppurtunist.
Not of any real political convictions.
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 1 day ago
So his suggestion for the poor is to get on a boat, destroy a civilization, appropriate their resources for free and industrialize with massive government support and tariffs? These romantic visions the Chicago school holds for the "classical era" is so distorted it should make anyone with an education laugh. Also he recommends that poor blacks go to private school? with what? This man is an apologist for elitism and he distorts the historical role of government's in the past. Neoliberal scum
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
@konnichiwa53 Keep writing the truth. I'm too old to fight these bastards.
JayGatsbyOdysseus 2 days ago
@JayGatsbyOdysseus I know they are vicious little snakes aren't they? And they multiply hahaha I work in Agricultural economics and these state-capitalist freidmanites are everywhere championing what they call "freedom" while demanding handouts and research from the government, then they have the gaul to attack the poor for asking of their government, sick people. Maybe they read too much Ayn Rand.
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
@konnichiwa53 - 'Also he recommends that poor blacks go to private school? with what?'
It's called the voucher system. It's been used successfully in other countries. It's feared here in America.
drumbist 2 days ago
@drumbist I know it and it is a failure of a system and based on destabilizing education then transferring public money as the actual facilities to the hands of private profit. I know the system and it destroyed New Orleans and it ought to be feared in America, public education needs reform not a private voucher system. No "free market" solution exists for education it is all subsidized by the government and therefore should stay the responsibility of the government.
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
i just love the calm way he engaged with the widely liberal socialist audience.
halflifeproductionz 3 days ago
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@halflifeproductionz And the way he blatantly lies and distorts history. His suggestion for the poor is to get on a boat, destroy a civilization, appropriate their resources for free and industrialize with massive government support and tariffs and he says it calmly, bravo.
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
Obama said the we are free of responsibility, and we are handing a debt laden cancer to our kids
They are destroying the dollar too.
9jmorrison 3 days ago
He says we have no responsibility then he says we have a responsibility to educate them. That's a big contradiction. If we should educate them then it is easy to argue we should do many other things as well. Thus, his answer is a non-answer. That's all I am trying to say here.
ndyt 3 days ago
@ndyt
You are up in arms about a false contradiction. He is clearly noting that the public school system is deeply flawed and the government forces those individuals to use it regardless. We made the horror known as the public school system and also the regulations and teacher's unions that make it difficult to start and maintain a private school. Individual responsibility to educate goes beyond a single government program.
AUScorpion 3 days ago
@AUScorpion, the gov only forces school, not public school. What have they done to make it difficult to start a privet school? Cant be too much because Atalanta is choc full of them! XD Also, most Atlanta public schools are pretty good. The ones outside of Atlanta, not so good. Seems like the higher the tax base the better the school.
ndyt 3 days ago
If you still believe in the suiccess of capitalism open your eyes, if you still believe the free market eliminates poverty walk through your town's and cities and contemplate what you witness.
nathfrancis01 5 days ago
@nathfrancis01 Define poverty. Poverty in America means only owning one TV or computer. There has been no greater system than capitalism at raising people out of poverty and increasing the living standards for all.
boshembechle 5 days ago
@boshembechle Over 45 million people on food stamps I would consider to be poverty stricken. When somebody cannot afford the necessaries of life through their own endevours I would judge them to be living in poverty.
nathfrancis01 5 days ago
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mredstriumph 3 days ago
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@nathfrancis01
Over 45 million people being given everything they need without having to work is the new definition of "poverty"?
I remember when arrangements like that were called "Luxury".
Maybe 45 million Americans (around 1 out of 6) are completely helpless?
mredstriumph 3 days ago
@nathfrancis01 What I witness is government intervention and a lack of incentives. I see a myopic government which creates certain welfare programs that have no long term effects. Welfare programs destroy the motivation to work because people will become reliant upon government programs instead of being responsible for themselves. The reason why you don't believe free-market eliminates poverty is because right now, gov. programs eliminate work and therefore hinder capitalism.
intimidatingusername 5 days ago
@intimidatingusername What a fallacious and insolent response. You see government intervention as a cause of poverty? If the U.S government did not bailout failing free-market companies the failure of capuitalism would be profoundly more evident. That is to say government intervention is masking the failure of the free -market system NOT shining a light on it.
nathfrancis01 5 days ago
@nathfrancis01 No it masking it. Government intervention is making it worse. Those companies should of went under and the companies that performed properly would of rose in the ranks because of the failure of the companies that were bailed out. Thus the services would of been improved because the companies that did not need bailed out would of attracted more capital.
DanielJMoore1991 5 days ago
@DanielJMoore1991 In predatory capitalism might is right, so the companies that "performed properly" as you put it did not feel compelled morally to invest sensibly it just so happened that they got a small enough slice of the pie which would not consume their business when everything went wrong.
nathfrancis01 4 days ago
@nathfrancis01 Simple logic. 'Too big to fail'(myass) companies knowing that they would be bailed out in case of malinvestments took excessive risks that they wouldnt have taken otherwise in a free market by loaning to people that THEY knew wouldnt be able to pay it off. Then came the crash and demanded to be bailed out. Hence Gov intervention caused the bubbles and the crashes.
kwnnlhs 4 days ago
@kwnnlhs It is rather presumptuous to claim that these people took excessive risks because they knew the government would bail them out that is certainly a logical conclusion but either way it is just speculation. I would argue that the bonuses paid to invetment bankers, hedge fund managers etc motivate them to act in self intrest and not really care about the sustainability of the company. There are numerous cases where renagade investors put personal profit ahead of company success.
nathfrancis01 4 days ago
@nathfrancis01
And who isn't acting in "self-interest"?
Politicians?
The gangster unions who intentionally made crappy cars in the 60's, 70's, and 80's and couldn't care less?
The steel mill unions in Pittsburgh who strangled the businesses and supported local politicians to tax everything they couldn't bargain away, break in protest, or outright steal on their own?
Good lookin out fellas. China thanks you for your service.
Public sector unions who bankrupted every state,fed,&locl budget?
mredstriumph 3 days ago
@mredstriumph Jonas Salk didn't act in self intrest when he refused to patent his polio vaccine, Edward Jenner called his smallpox vaccine his "gift to the world" and didn't become wealthy from it. Considering the smallpox vaccine was the first vaccine and that Jenner is the "father of immunology", I have to ask where was the profit motive to make probably the most important invention ever? Newton didn't write principia mathemateca for profit. Van Gogh sold only 2 of his artworks in his lifetime
nathfrancis01 2 days ago
@nathfrancis01 Nice to finally see another human posting near the creature that Freidman spawned (neoliberals), agreed, your points are very true.
konnichiwa53 2 days ago
@konnichiwa53 I'm glad I'm not the only one lol.
nathfrancis01 1 day ago
@nathfrancis01 with a soul? haha I know
konnichiwa53 23 hours ago
@nathfrancis01
Sure, its a nice thing that Salk did, but then again he was a wealthy doctor who married a very well to do woman. Here's a question for you.. did Salk practice medicine & perform research for free? Or did he work for pay - out of self interest?
Newton is history's greatest genius, but saying he didn't profit from his work is absurd. He became famous & wanted for nothing - through publishing his work. U are the 1st to claim he austerely denied all self-interests as principle.
mredstriumph 1 day ago
@mredstriumph
As far as I know, Newton was never known as a collectivist, socialist, or utopian of any fashion. In fact, he was a friend of John Locke and supported the concept of 'Natural Law' which affirmed intrinsic individual personal rights of life, liberty, and property.
That's hardly the kind of thing a socialist, collectivist, or utopian / totalitarian gets excited about.
mredstriumph 1 day ago
@mredstriumph I never claimed Newton went unrewarded for his endevours, I merely stated that he did not comprise his greatest work "principia mathematica" with the goal of finnancial reward. He was reassured of finnancial security long before he comprised the principia. By all accounts his sole motive was his love of science and his satisfaction in understanding the natural world.
nathfrancis01 1 day ago
@mredstriumph These economists are just sad philosophers they take one element of human kind (self interest) and deny that any others exist (altruism) and base their model on a period of time (the "classical economy") that was marked by massive government intervention, protectionism, and imperial robbery of resources. Let's bury Freidman and his sad ideas.
konnichiwa53 1 day ago
@konnichiwa53 I'm not sure of the context here, but economics has almost nothing to do with philosophy. I can reliably predict consumer behavior with economics in, say 19 cases out of 20. Also, it's not just self-interest, it's also fear. Altruism is a part of self-interest.
sobeboyzz 1 day ago
@konnichiwa53
Altruism exists in capitalism.
It is just voluntary altruism
Altruism under socialism like programs is of a forced nature.
Often only leads to depedency
( It is just like a drug)
people today use Govenrment like a drug.
Got to get your Govenrment drug high on.
Government the most dangerous drug of them all.
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 1 day ago
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS Capitalism can only exist under conditions of pure equality and perfect liberty-Smith, you are joking when you use the word capitalism right? What we have is state-corporate oligopoly which masquerades as capitalism. I am tired of people blaming the poor for everything, top government expenditures are grossly inflated military budgets and the health care system (which is so expensive because of its private nature) Both of these are anomalies of the USA
konnichiwa53 23 hours ago
@konnichiwa53
There has never been such thing as equality & never will be.
The rich push society forward.
the poor have been pushed up with the rich.
poor people today have more luxuries than the rich did 100 years ago.
under communism all it does is bring everyone down the level of the poor.
Like North Korea.
Who is better off the poor in South Korea or the poor in North Korea?
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 22 hours ago
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS no, the scientists and entrepreneurs push society forward, some are rich, most are either poor or middle class. I would love to know how you see bankers pushing society forward, you are in support of socialism for the rich, and have a very anti-intellectual approach to it no less.
DoneWithDogma 20 hours ago
@DoneWithDogma
I am against socialism for everyone.
I am a Libertarian.
But, Rich people tend to push society more than the Poor people do.
Rich people tend to provide alot of jobs for the middle class & poor
While Poor people don't
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 20 hours ago
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS yes, rich Americans tend to provide a lot more jobs for the middle class and poor
and the Chinese are absolutely thrilled about it too
DoneWithDogma 15 hours ago
@DoneWithDogma
Liberals have done alot of problems which make it easier for businesses to operate in China.
Such as the Liberals increases in Taxes from more Government spending.
Such as the Liberals increases in Minimum wage which do almost nothing as it generally causes inflation.
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 15 hours ago
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS haha, you mean problems like child labor laws? and minimum wage? the FDA?
if we could only live in your Utopian society where we work for .50 cents a day, our ten year olds can work in steel mills and we'll all have cadmium soup for supper.
god knows why I engage with you lagbrains
DoneWithDogma 14 hours ago
@DoneWithDogma
Minimum wage just increases inflation.
If businesses went down to paying people too little they would lose profits & reputation.
the FDA is a joke.
They prescribe & support the use of Amphetamines given to little children with ADHD
but, the FDA purposefully doesn't inspect vitamins & supplements so it can try to demonize the use of these.
Well, the Vitamins & Supplements seem alot better without the FDA then does the Amphetamine Adderalll & Ritalin given to young kids
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 14 hours ago
@IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS good job, you've managed to highlight the particular problems that come with every organization.
if you want to do without these things, then fuck off to China or India so you can enjoy their wonder labor system and lack of health regulations, or just stay here and cry like a little bitch. I don't have time for your bullshit either way. peace
DoneWithDogma 12 hours ago
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@DoneWithDogma
China is rather socialist still.
China is actually rather fascist / socialist right now.
Which is not really Capitalism.
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 12 hours ago
@mredstriumph In the case of Salk the money he made as a doctor and researcher is irrelevant, I was just stating that in that instant he didn't act in self intrest. The point is when he created the polio vaccine he was faced with a choice, either he could patent it and it would become unobtainable for poor children or he could sacrifice his own wealth to ensure that the children who needed it would have it. He would not have faced an ultimatum of that magnitude as an ordinary physician.
nathfrancis01 1 day ago
@mredstriumph Just out of curiosity, if during the cold war a US citizen decided to act in self intrest and obeyed the profit motive to sell secrets to the USSR for a huge sum of money would you think them to be an exemplary student of the free market system? Or what is soldiers in WW2 storming Normandy had refused to do so without financial reward. The profit motive finds it's home in matters of frivolity. Compassion is the human default setting in times of importance.
nathfrancis01 1 day ago
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@nathfrancis01
Government intervention also helps big businesses become to big to fail by giivng special rights & bailouts to the biggest corporations.
Nazis also did similar. Nazis heavily regulated big businesses & got rid of all small busineses.
If Governments got rid of property tax it would get rid of alot of poverty
Alot of people are poor because of property tax. Anytime they lose their job they lose their house because they can't pay property tax
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 3 days ago
@nathfrancis01
The failure of the free-market? Then what happened to Fannie Mae?
Fannie got a larger bailout than AIG, Goldman, BoA, Lehman, & every other bank COMBINED.Plus the banks will pay back the money they received. Most already have. Fannie & Freddy - who got the majority of the $ - don't plan to paying anyone back ever.
money - DOT - cnn - DOT - com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/
Everything w the words GSE, HUD, FHA, Stimulus, etc = govt
mredstriumph 3 days ago
@mredstriumph
Maybe u believe the government narrative that giving bad loans is a profit strategy?
And that paying ZERO DOWN on a LOW INTEREST LOAN for a house much nicer than u can afford, which u never pay back, & took "equity" loans against to buy vacations, furniture, & cars makes u a victim of a predator?
Who got benefit &who goes broke? The victim who walks away or predtr bank?
Heck, you're probably the type of guy who thinks the way to cure "too big to fail" is to close small banks?
mredstriumph 3 days ago
@nathfrancis01
What I witness is cars, homes & property that BELONG to other people.
What I don't see are the free televisions, cell phones, & automobiles that grew on trees and were gathered by the fortunate. Nor do I see things belonging to others that I have a right to just get two other people together to "vote" on & make decisions about.
I wonder what secret "army" "capitalism" has that forces all those people to OWN their property? What impels this "unfair"&"unnatural" practice/system?
mredstriumph 3 days ago
The government would have less reprehensibility to support the ppl if they let them have more freedom to sell their things and support themselves however they can. TOTALLY FREE COMMERCE!!! TOTAL FREE SOCIETY!!! they call it free here , but how many hoops and permits ya gotta get before the man lets you set up shop?? How many poor ppl can afford these and start their own businesses?!! We need to remove communism from the US (stop looking at the gov for support!!!!!) and re-install FREEDOM!!
MrJsanchez801 5 days ago
@MrJsanchez801 AMEN BROTHER!
intimidatingusername 5 days ago
@MrJsanchez801
The prob is the INSTITUTIONALIZATION of progressive policies
The only solution is to dismantle big govt institutions, the welfare state, & the Federal Reserve Bank that progressives designed 2bankroll big government (thru debt) without directly raising taxes
Until these are gone, no matter who holds office - Dems, Repubs, or Pedro - its progressive big-plan Dems Woodrow Wilson, FDR, & "Great Society" LBJ who rule society & wait between election cycles to expand their grasp.
mredstriumph 3 days ago
Mexico is actually a kick ass country ! I mean if it were'nt for the government and the fact that ppl so poor. Mexico is virtually what the US wishes to be lol...
MrJsanchez801 5 days ago
In Mexico though ANYBODY can drop a blanket and sell on the street in designated areas without government tellin ppl you need permits! How free are you when you have to ask for permission to peddle in order to feed ur family? Too many hoops to go into business for yourself in US, not free like MEXICO!!!!!
MrJsanchez801 5 days ago
"It cannot save the few who are rich."
.
.
Save them from WHAT, exactly?
EGarrett01 6 days ago 2
@EGarrett01 Who cares, they got all the money....let IT save them.
MrJsanchez801 5 days ago
If it was a ship with a rowing crew.. if crew did not getting enough food from the ship's trade.
because a Psychopathic greedy captain was hoarding.. he'd get lynched, only possible course.
"If you could induce employers to hire for low wages"
Private prison corps/ forced labour @20 cents an hour, loss of skills base, corp ranters trashing of standards and sane debate.
Much worse than captains (swindled for a fee with evil advice), are ppl like Friedman; psychopathic cult thugs & traitors IMO.
marsCubed 6 days ago
2
equality & common interest meant other ships invested. introduced engines & trained as engineers & medics.
Good relations with other vessels trumped beggaring one's neighbor.
rat-race hype is how swindlers justify power.
Friedman recycled a mix of bigoted dinner party chat with snide deflections.
His supporters should expose the whole charade IMO. It would make a brilliant book & good $ (in many ways).
Informed democratic People helping each other up can work very well. ie N. Europe.
marsCubed 5 days ago
What he said about Minimum wage is absolutely true. Minimum wage can be replaced with "discrimination against low skilled workers" and it would mean the same thing. And too often people point out that without minimum wage, we would be earning pennies. That is simply not true. If that were true, how could we buy things. If we couldn't buy things, how would any company survive? The wage issue would be solved by the market. The workers would flock to the companies that offered higher wages.
boshembechle 6 days ago
@boshembechle thats right, why should a person that works hard at any job struggle? I work hard and I have skills and I still get only a little more than minimum wage and the part that bugs me is my employer can't afford much more than that. The real problem is the corrupt monetary system in my country and the welfare system that encourages laziness and failure, we all pay for that tenfold.
MrROTD 6 days ago
He admitted himself that there will always be poor people under a free market with no government intervention and we are supposed to see this as a good thing? Why are people so obsessed about eliminating the minimum wage? All you have to do is look at China and India and realize that you will get paid pennies. Sure everyone might have a job but barely getting by. Am I getting it wrong?
Shnimberz 1 week ago
@Shnimberz No, its not good that people are poor. He says as much. His point is that the free market is better than any of the alternatives. There will always be the 'poor' if you define them to be the people at the lower end of the economic spectrum, but our free market poor tend to be much better off than the rest of the world's poor. People in China and India get paid pennies because their work product is worth as much. If China set a minimum wage of $10, no one woud hire the unskilled labor.
TG1212able 6 days ago
@TG1212able Firstly thank you for the intelligent and kind response. Who decides what the value of their job is? Why should a bus driver in India get paid pennies while a bus driver in the U.S. get paid maybe $12 dollars an hour when they are doing the same job actually the bus driver in India has a much more difficult job considering the poor work conditions and the chaos on the roads in India. I'm sure the same argument was said when the minimum wage was introduced here about unskilled labor.
Shnimberz 6 days ago
@Shnimberz Its basic Econ 101. Supply and Demand. Increase S and price goes down; increase D and P goes up. In India, there aren't as many opportunities for high paying jobs, so more people are willing to be bus drivers. In the US, its the reverse, so less are willing to be bus drivers as better options exist. Thus, S of bus drivers is higher in India than in the US, so the price is lower. Also, I suspect that the D for transportation is higher in the US, so Americans are willing to pay more.
TG1212able 6 days ago
@Shnimberz How does this relate to minimum wage? Everyone initially gets paid more. With the extra money they demand more products. D goes up, P goes up, and the initial benefits of the minimum wage are gone. Except, now, the money that would have been kept by the bosses instead of spent on the legally imposed wages is gone or diminished, and so it can't be as readily invested. Investments build factories, which increase S. So now, its harder to increase S, prices can't go back down.
TG1212able 6 days ago 2
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@TG1212able
Yes, Minimum wage causes inflation in prices
& lay offs.
the real thing that is gained?
Is that your money you saved up isn't worth as much as it used to be.
Oh, Yes why Old people need social security.
Because their wages can't keep up with the constant Liberal increase in minimum wage causing increased prices.
Oh, yes as always let's use more government to solve problems government causes
Government is a drug
the worst drug ever.
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 3 days ago
is that Amanda Knox sitting over that dudes right shoulder?
TheClarko1234 1 week ago
This guy tends to be too misleading by over simplifying the issues. FAIL
cuevasdecamuy 1 week ago
How reassuring to learn that people in the Soviet Union, India and China earn less that those below the poverty line in the US. I wonder if these foreign folk are expected to hand over the bulk of their earnings in order to have a roof over their heads? Why with India being a democratic, capitalist society are people are dying in the streets.? I guess the benefits will trickle down any day now.Fast forward to 2012, only the mafia is flourishing in Russia and China (the commies) own America.
Vickivancouver 1 week ago
I think people really believe the second thing he said is racist: 'discriminate against them by not allowing employers to pay below a minimum wage.' Since minimum-wage jobs usually don't require an education he's probably inferring that blacks are generally at least viewed as on average less productive due to some inherent genetic defect ie relative stupidity or laziness... The question isn't even open, the differences are statistically miniscule and demographically retarded...
bungleminge 1 week ago
Great video about a group of guys who decided to help the poor in Ohio.
watch?v=PX0f4rMl3fs
philip5097 1 week ago
When I was poor I despised this man, now that I'm living high on the hog I agree with everything he says.
RichieW 1 week ago
It took me a while, but I am with you now Milton.
crothersdaniel 1 week ago
1st - Public school system doesn't make blacks not having jobs. If there was no public school system, how would they go to school?
2nd - The welfare system transfers money upwards down. Much of rich people's capital is much more productive if it's transferred to the poor to boost consumption. They only invest a part of the capital in the productive economy.
These economists aren't scientists, they base what they say in anecdotal evidence. They're more politicians than anything else.
TradingTutor 1 week ago
@TradingTutor 1st - There is a difference between governments funding education and governments running education. Not sure if it was Milton or not but someone once suggested having educational 'coupons' supplied by the government which could be spent at any legitimate educational institution. This would create competition, i.e. a school obtaining good results would have more demand, and be able to expand their method of education.
RealRacer69 1 week ago
@TradingTutor 2nd- The idea that money sits around and does nothing in stimulating the economy is more or less a myth, and where it's not true is due to crony capitalism to do with the production of money from nothing by the Fed. No matter where you put your money (except for under the bed) you can trace it to a direct investment in a company which would be used to pay employees or purchase equipment manufactured by a company that employs people.
RealRacer69 1 week ago
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TradingTutor 1 week ago
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@RealRacer69 Yes I think Friedman said that about the coupons. But I think that's much more expensive than running public schools, and public schools don't have to be bad. In Europe every country has public schools, and they do ok. The students can access college if they want, or go to work if they want.
And how does a trader who uses money to speculate helps the economy? He has to have money deposited alright, but it's not even a savings account...
TradingTutor 1 week ago
@TradingTutor Free markets have always proved to be cheaper and more innovative then monopolies even if it takes a few decades to get there.
People should have the right to own assets and if you disagree then that should apply to all, rich and poor.
Speculation is a healthy part of the economy: lets say it was predicted that the next years harvest would be poor. People would buy wheat as it's price will go up next year. This drives the current price up to until it reaches... (continued)
RealRacer69 5 days ago
@TradingTutor ...a point where the price takes into account the supply and demand over 2 years assuming next year will be a poor harvest.
Now lets say it was a poor harvest. The speculation has stopped people over eating in the good year, meaning there is a decent supply of food now despite the poor harvest.
If the year turned out to be good there is now an abundance of food and it's price would fall dramatically. Those who speculated lose out, but everyone gets cheap food.
RealRacer69 5 days ago
@RealRacer69 A public school system isn't a monopoly. There are private schools running too, the people can choose where their kids go.
TradingTutor 5 days ago
@TradingTutor The public school system is most certainly a monopoly. 90% of people can't send their kids to private schools for whatever reason (cost mainly), and don't have the resources to home school, and so are forced, BY LAW to send their kids for 10 years to a government run institution. They have no choice.
Now I believe that any education is better than none but why not allow for the free market to add choice and improve the quality of educational methods.
RealRacer69 5 days ago
@RealRacer69 Adding on to that....letting education be a market would do wonders for the inner city. Parents could get send their kids to safer schools to get a better education. But, as you know, Democrats need people to stay poor for support.
boshembechle 5 days ago
@RealRacer69 A monopoly is a situation where a firm can influence price and output of a product or service, and prevent competition. In this case the service is to deliver good students. Even if there are many more public schools than private, there's no way this could happen, because private schools can still deliver good students independently of public schools existing or not. And there exists a market for private schools, so the public schools aren't preventing competition. Coupons cost alot
TradingTutor 5 days ago
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@TradingTutor
the total unemployment rate is 8.5 percent & the Black unemployment rate is 16.7 percent
In 1963 ( Pre civil rights / pre Lyndon Johnson's great welfare society of FAILURE)
The total unemployment was 5.7%
The Black unemployment rate was 8.2%
Lyndon Johnson sure helped Blacks let me tell you.
While the total unemployment rate went up by about 1/3rd more since Lyndon Johnson
the Black unemployment went up more than 1/2 more since Lyndon Johnson
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 3 days ago
Moron crosses his arms when Milton slaps him down. People who live in wealthy countries will find a way to try & find poverty in order to substantiate their own moral worth or excuse their feelings of guilt, when in actuality, poverty in the US is a joke compared to third world countries. The poor in third world countries don't have TVs.
Sage80 1 week ago
@Sage80 More than that, I would say. Don't necessarily blame him for thinking that way. When you see govt. win a world war on two fronts and put 12 men on the moon, it's hard not to think that govt. should do something about the poor. And that is what we have to combat. Because it's tough to fight that motif because it's so powerful, with the backing of the media that finds no fault with Democrat govt. at all, but only when a Republican is in office. That's tough to fight.
MaxxTheMerciless 1 week ago
Stupid bleeding heart libs depending on politicians.
Sage80 1 week ago
the free market is correct, unfortunately miltons version became bastardised, as they turned capitalism into corporatism
LIVINGONTHEDOLE 1 week ago
@LIVINGONTHEDOLE
the government got more involved instead of less
LIVINGONTHEDOLE 1 week ago
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The "trickle-down" Theory: The principle that the poor, who must subsist on table scraps dropped by the rich, can best be served by giving the rich bigger meals.
JoshMan522 1 week ago
What was the average poverty rate during the late 19th/early 20th century? Are statistics even available?
AliceNchainz011 1 week ago
@AliceNchainz011
His point is living-standards.
Even American slaves were THE top 1% in living-standards among African slaves worldwide; their numbers increased SIX TIMES from family-growth, while everywhere else they either remained constant or perished completely.
SouthParkBear 1 week ago
@SouthParkBear Comparatively speaking, yes, it is better to be poor in America than to be poor in a country like Somalia, for example. (whether we're talking 100 years ago or now). However, it doesn't address the central issue of how many were in poverty during that time.
AliceNchainz011 1 week ago
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@SouthParkBear Comparatively speaking, yes, it is better to be poor in America than to be poor in a country like Somalia, for example. (whether we're talking 100 years ago or now). However, it doesn't address the central issue of how many were in poverty during that time.
AliceNchainz011 1 week ago
if you think what he said is racist then your a idiot
318ray 1 week ago
On the point of disadvantaged blacks, what private system would be able to profitably and properly educate those from families with a tiny income to begin with? Why would it be profitable to pay skilled workers more when they could subsist on less? What then, in a world with such giant corporate industrial monopolies, would prevent a system where workers would only be paid a subsistence rate and an economic serfdom would ensue before it collapses due to the absence of a middle class?
InnuendoXP 1 week ago
@InnuendoXP Thank you for expressing that. I concur.
DAngelo136 1 week ago
@InnuendoXP "Why would it be profitable to pay skilled workers more when they could subsist on less?"
The issue of wages depends on factors that determine the labor market; Labor demand is a factor of market demand for goods and services.
Consumer demand increases--->Labor demand increases--->Wage$ increase.
-or-
Consumer demand decreases--->Labor demand decreases--->Wage$ decrease.
Profitability isn't the same as cost cutting, so you know.
DOHC2L 1 week ago
@DOHC2L
No but any business which wants to maximise its profit will want to have the lowest cost:revenue ratio possible. That will include wage costs. In practice you are seeing work being outsourced internationally to decrease labour cost where it becomes more economical to ship things from one side of the world and back. Consumer demand for both more goods and lower prices increases, but somebody has to do the work.
There's an ethical dilema in work outsourcing here, people need jobs.
InnuendoXP 1 week ago
@InnuendoXP "...any business which wants to maximise its profit will want to have the lowest cost:revenue ratio possible."
No, that assumption is inferior to the 'equimarginal principle' from the microeconomic theory of the firm. The equimarginal principle is "The principle that an activity should be pursued to the point where marginal cost equals marginal benefit." You must understand, this principle is used to disprove assumptions about costs such as the one you're making now.
DOHC2L 1 week ago
@DOHC2L How does it disprove it?
AliceNchainz011 1 week ago
@DOHC2L
okay. please demonstrate your understanding of this principle and use it to disprove the case-scenario I put forward.
InnuendoXP 1 week ago
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SouthParkBear 1 week ago
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@DOHC2L Well you always want to optimize cost-benefit for maximum bottom-line.
The issue here is that anti-capitalists will claim that this will induce producers to increase profits by skimping on safety; however they ignore that doing so would cost more in lawsuits than it would save-- because they hate lawyers and litigation as well, believing in a nation of men and not of laws!
So you have to question the agenda at work here.
SouthParkBear 1 week ago
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@InnuendoXP On the point of disadvantaged blacks, what private system would be able to profitably and properly educate those from families with a tiny income to begin with?
Charter schools can compete for tax moneys attached to the children instead of to zipcodes and failed government schools. Competition to oppose this government monopoly will do more with less and gain from this successful efficiency rather than be penalized for it.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@InnuendoXP said [[Why would it be profitable to pay skilled workers more when they could subsist on less?]]
Because competitors in a free market compete for skilled workers. You're paying for talent and expertise. People want to do more than merely subsist, so they'll go with the best job offer and situation.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
RON PAUL 2012
TheNova1960 1 week ago
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@TheNova1960 said "Ron Paul 2012".
I'm voting for antibama, whomever that proves to be. Socialism (small 's') and record deficit spending and social dependency programs are killing our nation, especially the impoverished.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
1:50 I love how this arrogant punk is folding his arms like the world owes him something, and that he is somehow superior to others. Asshole. And he's the compassionate one? I don't think so.
Sumoto999 1 week ago
one of the slickest con artists the corporate cartels have ever had
riseingstardust 2 weeks ago
@riseingstardust you dont know what you are talking about!
KevinSheerin 2 weeks ago
did he just say, negros are not productive enough to make minium wage?
masluxx 2 weeks ago
@masluxx did you just hear his explanation? holy shit i cant stand you fucking people. Screaming 'racist' over a freaking fact just to sound politically correct without looking at the reality and how to solve the problem...
kwnnlhs 2 weeks ago 9
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@kwnnlhs all i say was,"did he just say, negros are not productive enough to make minium wage "...He did in fact say that. What ever also you else you read into it is your PreJudice.
masluxx 2 weeks ago
@kwnnlhs Lol your response couldn't have been more racist
stankmaw 2 weeks ago
@stankmaw how was my reply racist?? minimum wage laws hurt the economy by diminishing the ability of employers to hire more people looking to enter the job market lacking job experience... the group of people that is hurt by that fact moreso than others are young blacks and minorities in general. this is my point. Whats racist by pointing out the reality and offering ways to solve it?
kwnnlhs 2 weeks ago 13
@kwnnlhs minimum wage laws keep the wages artificially low, you have it backwards. It has the opposite effect of what they tell you, it's a way to make valuable workers into slaves.
MrROTD 6 days ago
@MrROTD Jesus use your logic will you? Minimum wage keeps employers from hiring more workers. Hence rising entry salaries AND unemployment.. What THEY( who?) tell me isnt necessary to understand what is going on... You just made a, simply put, DUMB statement and think you made a point... no sir Minimum wage hurts the economy and simple logic is all you need to understand it
kwnnlhs 6 days ago
@kwnnlhs it isn't just minorities, it hurts anyone that just needs a job , we all can't be doctors or lawyers so why should a hard working person have to accept slave wages?
MrROTD 6 days ago
@kwnnlhs The UNIONs & OBAMA's BIG GOVERNMENT need minimum wage because with a $10 salary, almost half of it goes to UNION dues, social security, state, & federal taxes.OBAMA's big government mooches off the poor. So they end up making below minimum wage.They pass these taxes onto small businesses hence no JOBS in the private sector while government UNION DMV/Postal cubicle hamsters make 6 figure salaries.OBAMA & the Democratic cronies steal from the poor & bankrupt small businesses!
UCSDEngineerDoctor 6 days ago
@kwnnlhs Its funny how history is rewritten or forgot, look at Chile and what happened when they removed it. And in lots of other countrys it did not improve the number employed it just made the companies very rich.
If the company has no lack of workers lining up, why would he pay them a fair wage? Just enough to get by, so they keep coming back to him, but no more.
Forjugadname 6 days ago
@Forjugadname I am not knowledgable in the topic of Chile and i wont pretend that i am since i havent read any literature about that.Dont take that as a copout because i dont want to debate on issues i am not knowledgable. As for the rest of your post. Who determines a fair wage? I determine that a fair wage is that everyone should be able to afford luxurious trips to the carribean, are companies obligated to provide that? The market determines the wages. No one else has the power to do so.
kwnnlhs 6 days ago
@stankmaw
it wasnt racist, it was factual. Learn the difference.
treysparker 1 week ago
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@kwnnlhs No I completely agree with you, i misread what you typed because you said; "did you just hear his explanation? holy shit i cant stand you fucking people." If I am not mistaken, you people meant youtubers.. i thought you were saying I hate you people as in I hate you "black people"
stankmaw 2 weeks ago
@kwnnlhs It was racist and condescending to boot. Remember, first of all at one point in American history it was illegal to educate Black people, then when universal free education was established, the facilities was "separate but equal" with equal being defined by the non majority population who dominated the economic control . If not for "government interference" the same conditions very well would have continued.
DAngelo136 1 week ago
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@DAngelo136 said [[ It was racist and condescending to boot. Remember, first of all at one point in American history it was illegal to educate Black people]]]
Democrats. [[..then when universal free education was established, the facilities was "separate but equal" with equal being defined by the non majority population who dominated the economic control .]]
Democrats.
[[If not for "government interference" the same conditions very well would have continued.]]
It did continue. Gov schools
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
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@DAngelo136
Maybe you should actually go to a college which has a mix of African Americans, Jamaicans, Haitians & Immigrants from Africa.
So, you can see how the Jamaicans, Hatians & Immigrants from Africa tend to respect & value education more than African Americans.
Because they know it is a privilage.
There was a video on youtube of a African female immigrant from Africa.
Who was upset because African Americans thought learning was dumb.
When she knew Learning was a privilage
IKiLLNRapeCOMMUNISTS 3 days ago
@kwnnlhs He glosses over "Reconstruction" and he is mighty glib over that fact of American history.
DAngelo136 1 week ago
@masluxx No; what he's saying is the minimum wage law has been bad to the black community because not only do most black people go to the worst schools, but the minimum wage laws disallow those black people who have went to those disadvantaged schools to get a job, get training and skills and move up in society because a firm can not hire the labor for a cheap cost because it is required that they hire them at a certain rate...
stankmaw 2 weeks ago
@stankmaw what he said "...will not hire them unless thier productivity is enough to justify paying them minimum wage", what does school have to do with minimum wage jobs anyhow? Does it really take a BS or a BA to flip burgers or work in a warehouse? How does what he said transulate into what you heard w/o some preconcieved ideas that you want to hear?
masluxx 2 weeks ago
@masluxx You are not addressing the entire argument but only a portion of it.. I do agree with you, no you should not need a BA or BS to work in a warehouse you flip burgers;
stankmaw 2 weeks ago
@stankmaw nor can everyone work in an office someone has to flip burgers and work in warehouses. For some to think those people should live in squallier while they are doing their part to help society function is nothing short of self centered self entitlement. In fact that "class" of people are the doers, they are the ones doing things, making things providing services that are making the self entitled the very capital that makes them high on themselves.
masluxx 2 weeks ago
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@masluxx, nicely said, now go get a job from a poor person.
LucisFerre1 1 week ago
@masluxx Nope. You weren't paying attention. You should watch the video again. and listen next time.
CaptainCocaine 1 week ago
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govt. isnt responsible for the poor, people are responsible!".....Govt. is an extension of the will of the people, and an agreed upon governing body of which we have input, genius. God, Friedman is such a jackass fake. This whole idea that the "free market" is some neutral economic system that hasnt produced inequality and sustained it through power relationships is so fuckin absurd.
flipgood89 2 weeks ago
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flipgood89 2 weeks ago
@flipgood89 I guess it would be better if you were deciding what's best for us?
dmowings 2 weeks ago
@dmowings ....no. A developed and advanced society is one that balances the needs and agency of society as a whole in order to promote the general welfare of the populous. This is a constitutional principle. A society advances if its citizens are well-educated and granted the ability to pursue life, liberty and happiness. Problem is, people think those constitutional ideas are the special property of the rich and elite.
flipgood89 2 weeks ago
ALIENATION OF LABOR YOU FUCK MILTON!!
13stevejohnson 2 weeks ago
@13stevejohnson your an idiot you socialist scum. shut up and get a job
scarsofbravery 2 weeks ago
@13stevejohnson Why don't you disagree with him objectively and politely ??
SuperScarfacejr 2 weeks ago in playlist Liked videos
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The free market is not what took people out of poverty during the industrial age. It was oil and the mechanization of labor. The idea that the free market will feed the poor is nonsense. We spend more money on a cure for baldness than we do on a cure for malaria. Why? Because of Milton Freedman and his bald free market head. Wake up.
itierney 3 weeks ago
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itierney 3 weeks ago
This is the "old" school of economics, coming from adam smith. It sais no government, the market will solve all problems. Doesn't really work perfektly. The other school is build by Keynes, who said that government must intervene where the markets doesn't work. Switzerland is a pretty good example of that policy, and look where we are ;)
MareSwiss 3 weeks ago
@MareSwiss Don't forget that Government intervention can't make anybody better off without making somebody worse off ... that's the whole dilemma of Government intervention .. I know that capitalism is flawed in practice and human labor is treated like any other input , but I believe it's the best available alternative .. and the other problems should be dealt with morally rather than economically .. what do you think ??
SuperScarfacejr 3 weeks ago
@SuperScarfacejr you are completly right. There is always a trade-off between allocation and (re)distribution. And we have to ask what would be fair? There is no easy solution and every country has to balance it. If we look at the U.S.A we see the system is fucked up. The top 1% owns about 40% and the bottom 80% owns 7% (depends on what statistic). Switzerland is unfortunately going in the same direction (as the whole world).
MareSwiss 3 weeks ago
@MareSwiss but in comparison to other nations the swiss got a pretty strong social safety net, and with that comes other benefits, like that the people feel more secure and are less likely to do crimes. We invest also much (copared to others) in education, and therefore people are more likely to find a job after being fired. Only one benefit of education. Best one is still the advanced productivity the more education you have. 500 characters is not enough for this subject xD
MareSwiss 3 weeks ago
@MareSwiss And your nation is very unique. From my very superficial knowledge about Switzerland , it's political relationships , advantages given to entrepreneur , financial system , ..etc. all seems very tempting for investing ... and about the crime rates , I think it has to do with education .. I've always believed that education positively enhance human behavior :) ... And by the way I'm not from the U.S , I'm from Egypt
SuperScarfacejr 3 weeks ago in playlist Liked videos
@SuperScarfacejr You are absolutely right! education does enhance human behavior because he is more aware of his ods and benefits. He knows that if he commits a crime he will be less benefited if he gets caught by going to jail rather than working to achieve something that doesn't involve getting into harms way. Individual responsibility is very important.
tehatemachine 2 weeks ago
@tehatemachine yeah I thought so too , Education is power
SuperScarfacejr 2 weeks ago in playlist Liked videos
@MareSwiss Yeah but the problem is , Governments usually go to entrepreneurs for a "quick dollar" ... and I don't know about those numbers but do you know the "less fortunate" living in the U.S.A are way better than the less fortunate in most places , including places where governments intervene as often as they can .
SuperScarfacejr 3 weeks ago in playlist Liked videos
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wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_rich_dont_want_you_to_know_about_taxes.html
MMZen 3 weeks ago
lols i love blaming the minimum wage and welfare for not hiring people.
malky2583 3 weeks ago
With capitalist globalization, jobs move as capitalists export factories and even entire industries to other countries. Millions of people continuously live below the poverty level; many suffer homelessness and hunger. Institutionalized racism provides billions in extra profits for the capitalists every year due to the unequal pay racially oppressed workers receive for work of comparable value.Women still face a considerable differential in wages for work of equal or comparable value.
1019079 4 weeks ago
I hope that bloke who asked the question took his latern jaw, and dark brooding, but somehow compassionate good looks and went into television or the movies.
He's got "leading man" written all over him.
canisfamilliaris 1 month ago