@xM4DM4X If you watch that video he says that yes, many of the greatest minds in the field say that machines will be smarter than us in 20 years or so and could even take over, he also says that he himself doesn't know for sure. He correctly states that silicon has its limits but that there are other methods on the horizon. Once they are created it could continue Moores law and that scientists will be right. Kaku says he thinks end of century, computers could be smart enough to be dangerous.
@venusprojection Yes he did they "could" be dangerous but he explicitly explains how engineers would be absolutely certain to make sure their obedient to our will is an integral component of the development. Again I believe you under estimate scientists and what is possible when you apply unbounded science to every any problem. I don't think you're scientific youself or you would understand this, no offense to your intelligence.
Also when he says that most people won't be needed to manage this world he means that meaningless jobs such as accounting, banking, economists, etc. won't be needed to support the exchange of information to keep the world going as everything will be unified under technology, which is and always be UNDER OUR CONTROL and should be used efficiently. Again if you were to fully post what he is referring to in his text it wouldn't look oike he is a nut who wants a "skynet". This video is full of bias
"Also when he says that most people won't be needed to manage this world he means that meaningless jobs such as accounting, banking, economists, etc. won't be needed to support the exchange of information to keep the world going as everything will be unified under technology which is and always be UNDER OUR CONTROL and should be used efficiently"
Right. You'll have a handful of overseers watching the machines run everything. So technically they'd be under the control of a handful of "experts".
@xM4DM4X That is, until Strong AI is created and then no amount of "experts" will be ABLE to control the machines. Again, go to the venus project website and look at the recommended books section. Go down the list and find "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil and start putting 2 and 2 together.
You clearly don't comprehend what Jacque is proposing. When he says that robots can program and rebuild themselves you must understand that a computer can ONLY run within the code that is it's back bone. Jacque means that they will be able to write their own process for cooking foods, building things that WE design, or something else that fits in a certain category. You are DEFINATELTY taking his words out of context.
@xM4DM4X "you must understand that a computer can ONLY run within the code that is it's back bone. "
Actually it is you who clearly doesn't comprehend what I am saying. Your program argument is meaningless when we are talking about technology in 20-30 years time. You are basing your entire argument on the "AI" that currently exists today not the "Strong AI" that will exist in the near future. Research Strong AI so you can understand the validity in my argument.
@venusprojection How can I research how technology that doesn't exist? Please, there is no need for xenophobia when it comes to new technology. The tools of TODAY can do EVERYTHING we need it to do to solve our problems! There is no logic in computers having a motive to eradicate man kind. It is this type of thinking that limits humans technologically simply out of fear of the unknown. Let go of your constricting ideals of this society and realize that so many things are possible in this realm.
@xM4DM4X It is impossible to have a real constructive conversation about this with someone who is willfully ignorant of things like Runaway AI and how nanotechnology will change everything. Wanting to make the world a better place is one thing and recklessly supporting seriously dangerous proposals without careful scrutiny is something else completely. And how can you research something that doesn't exit? The same way you research The Venus Project which also doesn't exist.
@venusprojection '...willfully ignorant of things like Runaway AI and how nanotechnology will change everything." Don't disrespect engineers' intelligence. Seriously just as a chemist like myself wouldn't make a "runaway" reaction, a computer engineer would never make a program that would go TERMINATOR on the whole human race. How the hell do you know what nanotechnology will do? You're talking out your ass. Do you not realize the corruption? The system is failing and we have a front row seat
@xM4DM4X What I said was a fact. You obviously aren't aware of things like Runaway AI and the dangers of nanotechnology and you have not demonstrated a desire to further your understanding by learning about them. Therefore, you are willfully ignorant. It's not disrespect it's the truth. Now seeing as how I'm the one who has studied these subjects for years having read the works of kerzweil, morovac, vinge and others just which one of us is REALLY talking out of their asses?
@venusprojection Ok I can't lay this out anymore simply: books and speculation are baseless representations of what technology will be, they are non-existent and therefore are NOT truth. How can you insult engineers/scientists by thinking they would let a pretty important loophole exist like that? There is no possible way for a robotic doomsday to happen UNLESS someone let it happen on purpose. Technology is under the control of it's inventor, seriously what are you snorting? I'll stick to pot..
@venusprojection PS Of course there will have to be experts who run maintenance because everything malfunctions sometimes. We must impregnate values of equality and cooperation into our new generations instead of violence and competition. Then the we won't have to worry about anybody abusing there responsibilities and we will all work in harmony as every single one of the trillions molecules in our body do.
@xM4DM4X On the subject of "experts" that will be overseeing The Venus Project we have to mention "The Interdisciplinary Teams". If you understand how the Interdisciplinary Teams work then you know that the citizens have no say and it's literally a scientific dictatorship in the hands of small groups of unelected people who think they know best and are better than everyone else. So considering the entire history of man as a species it would be suicide to accept such a dictatorship for the world.
@venusprojection You are construing his message in a wrong way. He doesn't advocate a dictatorship of robots ha ha.It is best to have everyone educated so together we can make a sound decision . No one obtains an education worth a shit in this society, there are exceptions for those who excel such as einstein, MLK, tesla, etc. I would rather have a group of intelligent, moral engs/scientists orchestrating a society than a bunch of "politicians." You don't think it's a dictatorship already?
@xM4DM4X "You don't think it's a dictatorship already?"
Again, I can't stress enough how I do not support the current system we are in. I also agree the education system is screwed up. So while I recognize the need for us to change society that doesn't mean I will naturally agree with your solution. Govs are too powerful in today's society. I believe the answer isn't to hand over even MORE power into the hands of control freaks. Individual liberty and private property rights are the answer.
@venusprojection PS Complete equality can only be obtained when the systems that divide us (money, social class, race, religion, ownership, etc.) become irrelevant (this will naturally lead to "sharing"). You saying that Jacque wants machine genocide, group of dictators, and doesn't have the best interests of the human race in mind is preposterous and utterly unsubstantiated. No system is perfect and the TVP is not an exception. I'm sorry but your argument is WEAK, mine is based on SCIENCE/LOGIC
I do not agree people buying cars with the money which they can live for years with.already workers all around the world is living with the mininum no matter they are working at a first class company.In my belief, a person must have minimum wealth when was born.
@metekavruk07 You have the right to your opinion. You are obviously well intentioned however I will say what you want is not only impossible but extremely dangerous to pursue. The consequences of a failed centrally planned economy have always resulted in death on a massive scale.
I personelly do not trust Venus project as i have noticed Illuminati signs in official documentaries of Zeitgeist.I accept most of the things are perfect in project such as resource based economy.But not in the hands of these guys.
@metekavruk07 an RBE is far from perfect. It requires that all the worlds resources be handed over to a small group of unelected "experts" who are chosen by another small group of unelected "experts". There is no democratic process at all, and "ordinary people" wont have any say in who will run the world and ultimately decide what and how much the people of the world are "allowed" to have. It would be a centralized power grab of un-imaginable scale as it pertains to every aspect of our lives.
@venusprojection as i understand it does not require a specific resource country to be used.Allready we all have sun ,wave and wind for free energy.Public transport system is also very good against individual vehicles wasting space and energy.I count these ideas perfect and a 'must' for the sake of the humanbeing. I am living in a country which is about to be divided by races for invading resources.My country is the center of the world and i know it very well.
@metekavruk07 I agree that alternative energy is a must for society but those forms of energy are available in the free market capitalist system as well. Car companies should not be forced to make electric cars as that would hurt their business and therefore the people who depend on those jobs. The production of fuel efficient vehicles / solar panels etc would voluntarily increase as there become more of a market for them. So our focus should be on improving the free market economy.
There are no members in TZM but supporters. It's not membership based movement. Obviously you have never been participating in this movement otherwise you would know it. Also you seem to have read or watch to many Sci-Fi stuff in Holywood style as The Terminator or I am Robot.
Intelligent forms to to their best to live in symbiosis with the environment and have no reason to destroy or endanger other life forms. That is what would make a difference between intelligent machine and emotional human
Human species lacks of control over its thought processes happening within their minds that's why our thinking is unconscious and unintelligent and prone to be controlled by emotions which causes destructive and irrational actions. Intelligent machine wouldn't have this problem as it doesn't have emotions and would have no reason to cause the damage to life forms or the environment as it would understand that it's thrving depends on the environment and other life forms...
@TheExtremeKaos To think you would be able to understand the thought processes of a super intelligent machine that dwarfs your own intellect by immeasurable amounts is really naive. Again you use the same straw man argument all TZMers use "you watch too many sci-fi movies". How about you read Ray Kurzweil "The Singularity is Near" and then we can have an honest discussion when you know what you're talking about.
@TheExtremeKaos Well then let's look at it closer. In Kurzweil's book he says that once a human's brain is "upgraded" with machine super intelligence, the non-biological portion of the brain becomes predominant ie our natural human thought processes could be controlled and or dominated by the machine portion of our brain. Furthermore once the singularity occurs the explosion of technological advancement will be so blindingly fast we won't be able to keep up without merging completely with (cont
@TheExtremeKaos (cont from last) the machine super intelligence. In the singularity is near he describes that man will merge with machines completely becoming one giant super intelligent machine with a "shared consciousness" (important to note Fresco doesn't even BELIEVE in "consciousness" so that part is debatable if we're talking about TVP). Then, in the book he says that we will expand into space at the speed of light assimilating all the matter in our path until we become the Universe itself
@TheExtremeKaos (final) So, baed off what you said I suppose this is the kind of future you support for our future? You support the idea that humanity will/should be controlled by machines and absorbed into a collective machine life form that assimilates the Universe to become all powerful? Because that's basically what it comes down too if you support the singularity and TVP. It's funny that TVP/TZM don't believe in "evil" because so that's exactly how I would describe their plans for humanity.
There are no such things as good & evil. They're illusional mental concepts. There are no such things in the Universe as evil & good. Those concepts are absolutely mind made, subjective and illusional. For humanity to be able to finally become intelligent it would mean to shift state of mind from being unconscious to conscious one - acquring abilty for self observance of the thought chatter constantly happening within mind & acquiring ability of not automatically act out of it..
@TheExtremeKaos I already understand your views on those things, as I illustrated in my previous posts. I didnt ask you to defend those views, although I do disagree with them. The topic was the singularity and what it means for humanity as a society. I laid it all out there and you refused to comment on it. Obviously you DO support those ideas and want humanity to be controlled by machines and in essence become a machine that assimilates the universe as you didn't deny it at all.
TO ALL WITH ANY INTELLIGENCE. THE VENUS PROJECT AND ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT ARE SOURCES OF INFORMATION ONLY. IF YOU SEE FLAWS THEN SAY SO AND SUGGEST IMPROVEMNENTS. THE POINT IS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO EVOLVE BEYOND MONEY. WE HAVE TO. OR WE WILL DESTROY OURSELVES.
artificial hands and pacemakers would scare the shit out of people 100 years ago. don't project your fears. that's the only message Jacque has to say about this. people - stop projecting your fears, and start realizing you are victims of culture. use science to figure out what is best for your survival and well-being.
also, TZM is obviously made from people too unfamiliar with TVP. that's why TVP part ways with them.
nowhere in any of the quotes does it imply that humans will not be needed at all. only less and less. also, there is nothing wrong with cybernation. watch "Transcendent man" by Kurzweil.
@TVPActivismIsrael I've read Kurzweil's book The Singularity is Near. In it he says that thinking machines implanted in our brains will control us and eventually we will all merge to become 1 super intelligent machine that spreads out at the speed of light assimilating the entire universe. Certainly you cannot compare that to a pace maker and expect me to take that seriously.
@venusprojection you can't stop technology, people will improve their organs, their brain tissue etc. if you choose to remain behind that's your loss.
@TVPActivismIsrael Actually you CAN stop technology that poses a severe threat to the existence of the human race. Just as the development of nuclear weapons is banned and deterred today, so can any other kind of technology that poses a danger.
@venusprojection that relies on your definition of "danger". I don't see it as danger to increase our abilities and attributes. yes, it could sound a little scary maybe, but i'm not sure what are you suggesting? that people would rather remain as they are?
@TVPActivismIsrael Obviously something that improves your organ functionality is not a danger. But it depends on how advanced a technology we are talking about. A nanotechnology super intelligence should never be created, even if it's under the guise of "enhancing our thinking capability". The human race merging with nanotechnology to the point where we become a completely new species exponentially evolving and assimilating ("improving") the universe is what I would consider a dangerous path.
@venusprojection how do you define the instant when it is no longer "improvement" but "becoming a new species", isn't a guy with artificial legs, running faster because of it (they do it today) - a "new species"? what is so "dangerous" about becoming smarter and merging with machines. this is completely arbitrary and based on your opinions.
@TVPActivismIsrael Again, artificial limbs and pace makers are not comparable to mental upgrades through super intelligent nanotechnology. Kurzweil states in his book that if you "upgrade" your thought processes with a super intelligent computer it becomes the predominant portion of the brain. Since neither you nor Fresco believe in "free will" that explains why you do not see this as a problem. I on the other hand do not think man should be controlled and taken over by machines in this way.
@venusprojection that's interesting. thx for answering. I really don't believe in free will. I guess that's why I feel ok about it. I don't think we will lose our illusion of free will by this either. but nevermind.
@TVPActivismIsrael Further dangers: Hackers today can wirelessly infiltrate even the most secure networks and systems. New viruses are also developed every day that can perform a multitude of operations and cause massive amounts of damage. As technology progresses and improves so will these dangers. Software already currently exists that can remotely update computer implants inside of people as well. Solar storms and emp can also fry electronics and be catastrophic for such upgraded cyborgs.
@venusprojection what progress would be made and what wouldn't? this whole area is very complicated in terms of concepts like "soul" "consciousness" "self" "free will" etc. someone might say they will be "endangered" I don't think any of them exists. not to mention, "endangered"... the only danger I see is for who thinks they exist to be awakened from their illusions.
We can use some common sense and have a sensible debate on that. For instance, creating "Strong AI" (if uve read kurzweil u know what that means) is an extremely dangerous proposition for the simple fact that we dont know what the end result might be. We may face a Runaway AI scenario where once the Strong AI is created it leads the continuous creation of more advanced Strong AI that cannot be contained by mere humans.
@venusprojection and i wasn't comparing pace makers to that, i was comparing technology of 100 years ago to a pace maker, and the technology today to the futures'.
@TVPActivismIsrael "i wasn't comparing pace makers to that, i was comparing technology of 100 years ago to a pace maker, and the technology today to the futures'."
But that is exactly the kind of technology that is predicted will exist in 25-30 years time. So you were.
@tazmaniainc ...so? Those words do not change the meaning of the overall statement in any significant way whatsoever. That is why it was not included. Their inclusion changes nothing.
And you are a litle guy sik of the mind, by the tyranny of the govermment and pushed to that thing they whant the people do, going support the govermment. I mean is like people like you this world never will be a just world, without which they are silent. You belive on crazy fanatics of NWO and followers of Alex Jones telling a lie. Whenever someone tries to create a world fit for everyone, someone is always putting work on the floor and then fight against my comment saying you are true, go cure
@tweenky420 truth is; the new world order will be brought about through the so called Zeitgeist movement and Venus project. This whole 'truth' experience we've all been having is bullshit.
@anythingnew it can't possibly be destroyed. It's perfected. Before our very eyes, conducted from behind the scenes. There's nothing we can do, at all, except to prepare ourselves. Without getting all religious, i'd advise you to read the bible. It's texts are dedicated to preparing you for such an event, as a matter of fact, all it ever does is expose the elite and warn you of them. After they've completed their task; which will deceive many, especially those who 'know' the 'truth', we w8 4 God
@anythingnew to be as ignorant as to call a creator, father - a sky fairy lol. not only that but there is more proof of god than there is of evolution. i refuse to go into it on here. and its not a case of him being so good, humanity has made its choice. he will save those who truly want his help, those who wait and persevere. its really quite simple. dont see it how religions want you to see it. this physical form we are in is merely a dream, an experience to lead us into eternity. do research
@anythingnew bacteria and germ mutation? good point. i haven't an answer but a suggestion. What about AIDs? Cancer? all these terrible diseases and problems. As far as i know they were created by the elite, the evil ones. So i wouldn't b surprised if they were responsible for all such things. I mean, why not... plenty of years to conjure up such atrocities. I refer to him as father because i believe he is the reason for my being here. I advice you, once again, to do some thorough research lol
@anythingnew and btw.... u show signs of a personal anger for him.. as you refer to him as being in existence, and then you say He is not righteous. So you clearly know he exists deep down, you''re just scared to admit it because that would mean you're responsible... I am not getting into this on youtube. Don't come across so annoyed when you speak about God, you give the impression you have some person vendetta with him lol. If you apparently don't believe then be humble enough to accept i do
I understand your view, However whats stopping the same thing happening in a monetary system? - could someone please answer me this (this is not sarcastic)
@Jameswinslife In the current system we could implement laws to outlaw the development of such technology which is the way I think we should go. In the RBE there are no laws so this is impossible and the whole system itself encourages its creation. Also in an RBE where everything is computerized and linked together it would be extremely easy for the whole world system to be taken over by such an AI while in a monetary system not everything is centralized so it gives more leeway for defenses.
@venusprojection what tonysanthedarkstar was saying is correct, AI are simply programs that do what we tell it to and like any creation of man you can build numerous overrides and fail safes if the systems not doing what it supposed to. Again my understanding is that the RBE encourages the creation of a computer that doesn't make decisions but rather acts like a giant calculator - recommend googling - Robot Biologist
@Jameswinslife I am talking about strong AI. Strong AI has yet to be developed, but will be possible within the next 15-20 years. STRONG AI is capable of free thought, because it will be patterned after the human brain once we develop nanotechnology that can reverse engineer the human brain completely it will change the way AI is developed.
@Jameswinslife That is just a quick answer there are other reasons but that's all I have time for now. I'll talk more about this is in a later video too because the question comes up a lot.
Just, keep in mind that "AI" will never "replace" humans, a "human creation" can never "surpass" its creator, and AI only is a program that does what you tell it to do. There is no intelligence whatsoever. Without an economy, you have no reason to work anylonger. Well, maybe we'd all work but in a different view. People do not work because they "feel they have to do something", but because they want money, otherwise, they would all end up in the streets. But you think for yourself, i like it.
@tonysanthedarkstar "AI only is a program that does what you tell it to do. There is no intelligence whatsoever."
Based on current technology you are correct but going forward it will be possible to reverse engineer the human brain and create what is called "Strong AI" which is capable of free thought just like we are.
It never changes. One minute they have a solution the next oh wait we fucked up and have a better one just to make it worse. You people never change. Fuck politicians. When Ron gets into office its time to reopen 911 and hang those fuckers in public along with everyone involved. I been working since i was 13.. The harder i work they less i make? Fucking stupid. This country cant get anymore retarded. Venus project I support.
@kren2012 I agree corrupt politicians have twisted this country and the world into something horrible because they have tried to control the world and the people and suck up all the wealth so the Gov can have all the power by making people depend on them to survive. This has to be reversed and I believe it can. But supporting TVP is basically supporting the same ideas that got us to where we are today. Centrally planned economies continue to fail us today, they have never worked and never will
@venusprojection How about this. We Put People like Ron Paul into office to see over the Venus project? I agree that there are good people out there,but I still want to live like an advanced society. The venus project and good people to over see it sounds good to me. We are smart and evolved enough now that we dont need a bunch of people in one building making decisions that we dont want made. We pay taxes and those taxes pay their check so tecknicaly we employe them. Its time to move forward.
@kren2012 "We are smart and evolved enough now that we dont need a bunch of people in one building making decisions that we dont want made."
That is exactly what would happen in TVP. Experts in various fields of science choose amongst themselves who will run the interdisciplinary teams that will manage all aspects of society. In that system the vast majority hand over any kind of influence in decision making to those who are supposedly the most intelligent. You think it's bad now? Just wait.
@venusprojection I still support the Venus project. If you like the idea of working to survive is up to you. I prefer living free and free education. I support the Venus project 2,000% . Your telling me you dont like the idea? Free living,education,food ect? I dont know about you,but we dont need politicians all they do is cause problems. Its a job that gets abused that effects everyone. The best way to eliminate politicians is to eliminate their jobs. Fuck politicians.
@kren2012 "The best way to eliminate politicians is to eliminate their jobs."
Oh yeah see that's what TVP is all about "eliminating" people they consider problematic and focusing on brainwashing the next generation and controlling everything. But go ahead I support your right to build a society but if you try to take over my way of lfie and my country you'd better think twice about what you are advocating.
@venusprojection As for your comment that "people will die" you forget that the majority of death id because of our political system.So either way someone is going to die.My generation are tired of how your generation fucked us over and were going to end it.If you wish to be left behind you can stay with the rest of the other idiots that left a mess for us to clean up.We dont owe you shit.You owe us after how your generation fucked it all up.Change is here get use to it.Period.
@venusprojection Your not very literate if that sounded like a death threat to you. I think you like drama and you will take anything as a death threat so you can play hero and act our your psycho fantasy. Maybe you point out the part that sounded like a death treat and remember..... Your an idiot.
lets look back at history. Every fucking mess started with a stupid fucking politician that got the great idea to rule the world like it fucking matters. then wanted more riches. Nobody cares how rich you are. Nobody cares if you rule the world. Why bother. Everybody wants to live in peace,why start shit and spreed hate just to get a peice of a pie that you already had. The rest of the population is already dead and they want more.
@kren2012 "lets look back at history. Every fucking mess started with a stupid fucking politician that got the great idea to rule the world like it fucking matters. then wanted more riches."
Well the riches help them gain what they really want more power and control and THAT's what people who want to rule the world are after just pure power and control over everything. But TVP/RBE would be no different as it's literally about taking over all the world's resources and taking away our rights
@venusprojection But go ahead I support your right to build a society but if you try to take over my way of lfie and my country you'd better think twice about what you are advocating......... Why would you say that? Are you a politician? Listen man its a free country and if I need your permission to live a life I want you are the kinda person we are eliminating. People like you only want their way of life,but dont want others to have theirs. Do your thing and I'll do mine. Now go fuck your self
@kren2012 Things you've said in this convo: "you are the kinda person we are eliminating" and then also "So either way someone is going to die.My generation are tired of how your generation fucked us over and were going to end it.'
And then this is also funny you said "Nobody is telling you how to live." Then in the next sentence said "Its people like you who are only for their own self interest.Greedy fucking losers. " LOL. You have a lot of anger and seem like an extremely dangerous person
@venusprojection Your right nobody is telling you how to live. I like how you say that "But go ahead I support your right to build a society but if you try to take over my way of lfie and my country you'd better think twice about what you are advocating." Your a fucking idiot. That to me sounds like a threat. If you cant figure out who the idiot is here I cant fix stupid. Stupid is as stupid does.
@venusprojection Nobody is telling you how to live. If you dont want the Venus project then continue your way of life Im not stopping you. Its people like you who are only for their own self interest.Greedy fucking losers. Notice how many dislikes are on your video? Should tell you something. Either change with the times or become an old man telling your grand kids why their generation sucks. All you can think about is your life style regardless of what others want.
@venusprojection Tell you what. You give us half the USA and you take the other. Dont be jealous when you look at how we are living,but dont complain because you made the decision to stick with the system that keeps you down and your kids down. Its your life your going to have to live it not me. So maybe before you start talking about how bad things are think about what got us here in the first place. People like you who only look out for their own life style.
@venusprojection Lets look at the numbers. People like you are fading and your the 1% of the people who are only concerned about your own life.You dont care how it effects others as long as you are happy.Things have changed.Man has done just fine before politics ever happened.We lived for thousands of years with out it.I dont care who you are or what you own.I am for the Venus project all the way.
When you think about it politicians are already like robots that are reprograming them selves. They are worse than computers,because they cant make decisions to better man they do it for greed not the betterment of the planet,people and life. So I will take a robot over a Fuck tard politician.
@kren2012 Also for politicians you can vote them out every 4 years and hopefully replace them with someone better. Once the super intelligent robots are in charge of decision making and the democratic republic no longer exists all you can do is appeal to a group of super elite scientists who will decide if you are informed enough for your complaints / concerns o be valid. And when the computers "merge" with you then you'll be completely under their influence. Doesn't sound that great to me!
You have a good point in the video.......... But....... Its still kinda weak. Good point with the living computer,but I would rather have a robot in charge than a greedy fucking politician.
@kren2012 That's why our attempt is to change all that on a grass roots level and to only elect honest politicians who will obey the constitution and put an end to cronie-capitalism. We've had some successes as of late and our momentum is only growing. We have an actual plan for success and the means to accomplish it. TVP / TZM is so unpractical neither have a plan as to where to even begin to create such a society as they propose. It hasn't even been tested and the tech doesnt exist yet.
@venusprojection I understand man,but until we get them honest politicians into office I would rather put a fucking bullet into my head and let them fuck it up with out me. Robots are not the problem. Its the people who program them. People are the problem. How about we start at grass roots and find scientist that will build honest robots. If people can be programed and still screw it up I give up on humanity. Maybe the world is better of with out humans.
@kren2012 The danger in building these "honest robots" as you put it is that at some point, if our goal is to constantly improve the resource efficiency of the whole world those robots are going to eventually become so intelligent that no human programmer can maintain control over the program. Take a look into the singularity and runaway ai and the idea these machines will "improve" the human race genetically and merge with our bodies and minds. This is dangerous stuff we are talking about here
@venusprojection you must be a dis info shill.... listen man. all politicians want is an easy job and our money. thats all. they will use any tactic to get it. Fuck politicians. We can do a better job running our own lives. Humanity is a joke and it doesnt matter anymore. As far as i see it this entire world is fucked up free loaders who dont work. its not a job that deserves masive rewards. your paid to ballence a check book and look at how that turned out.
@kren2012 Not all politicians are the same. There is a legal system that exists in America for the people to use. We have OURSELVES to blame for electing the same kind of corrupt people over and over again and we let them do whatever they want and it has ruined everything! But there are honest decent people who run for office and the media tries to black them out - we need to support them and change the system but it's just as important that we make the RIGHT changes. TVP is the wrong idea.
@kren2012 True corrupt politicians are dangerous as well and are responsible for the deaths of millions but that's why the goal should be to replace those politicians and elect real people who believe in freedom like Ron Paul and his supporters do. Then once we take the country back and end the wars and end the fed and restore prosperity and save the economy we can give other nations a chance to do the same.
@venusprojection if ron paul turns out to be real and the world changes thats awesome. ron paul can make and be apart of the venus project. we keep people like him there untill we get it right. ron paul for pres.
@kren2012 TVP calls for the elimination of private property rights. The Venus Project is incompatible with Ron Paul's message. Ron Paul's position is also that free individuals to be personally responsible for themselves. He is also a supporter of the free market and Austrian economic theory, believing that all attempts to centrally control the economy are doomed to failure. Just switch sides and give up on the venus project lie and support Ron Paul's message of liberty instead like I did.
@venusprojection Listen man. I dont mind that. This country is so fucked up any ways. It doesnt matter how you spit it the proof is in the pudding. Freeing our selves from daily work gives us more time to focus on making the future better. Polticians always screw it up and say they are going to make things better when really its a play on words to steal from us. I want free school and when I work its to better the world not a shit pay check. Fuck politics and the people in it. Its a joke.
@kren2012 Our politicians have let us down that is for sure. But it's people with the mindset that we need to redistribute wealth as in tvps case resources are the reason why all these governments and companies getting bailed out in the first place. If we allow the entire system to collapse and go along with crazy ideas like TVP billions of people are going to die as a result. We need to elect Ron Paul now to really make a difference and save the economy and end the wars and corruption
@venusprojection Give me Ron Paul and the Venus project. We are a well evolved species its time to act like one. Know what i mean. I am all about Venus project even if I have to be the one to die for it.
"...claim that I have taken this out of context. Sadly, that's not the case."
Oh, but it is. Personally, I find intellectual dishonesty to be distasteful, but you do as you please, I suppose.
To anyone whom haven't yet read the book, I recommend it. Computerised, cybernated systems are tools that remove the need for humans to manually manage and operate the system. AI isn't dangerous. Humans are.
When did a computer system last conspire against you, to take your freedom away?
@mljungberg10 I don't take anything out of context. Do you know about Runaway AI or The Singularity? When Fresco says machines will surpass the human capacity for thought that human beings will become a modified species and that we'll begin to engineer our bodies to keep up with technology that's exactly what he's talking about. The Venus projects website even recommends "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil. In that book he says humans will become machines that assimilate the universe.
@venusprojection I just saw your other video on runaway AI, and I have to apologise. You clearly are not being intellectually dishonest. Paraphrasing Jaque:
- Opinions are dangerous, and should not be allowed
- Humans should be kept out of the decision-making process -There is no such thing as individuality
- Cybernetic technology run by AI is the inevitable future
Let me address these in other posts (seeing as I only get so many characters per post).
What is an opinion? It's an uninformed, subjective view on some thing.
If we really want a world of peace, where we don't have to worry about the next one, we obviously can't exclude anyone from the necessities of life. If we don't want to exclude anyone, we cannot make decisions based on opinions. We have to do our research. The funny thing about research is that it shows things the way they really are. Which means that once verified, they're no longer opinions, but facts.
If our opinions turns out to be wrong, we should be happy we never based decisions on those opinions.
Now, if we agree that every human being on this planet needs to be kept in the loop (have all the necessities of life), simply because that's the only way we can trust others not to do us harm, then we have our goal setup. But how can we make the earth's resources meet everyone's needs? There are simply too many variables to consider.
What we need is to enhance our abilities to do the proper research and reach the
proper conclusions about how to provide for everyone. We do that through cybernetic
technology and AI.
Our individual nature is the result of our opinions, which are built on personal experiences and bias (not objective research). We then realise that our individuality only survive if we remain in whatever ignorant state we currently find ourselves in. Learning new things inevitably changes us as individuals.
Our individuality, thus, is more like a snapshot of our behaviour, thougts and understandings at a certain point in time. Well, if that's true, then none of us has an individuality written in stone, unaltered and unaffected by the environment we live in, unless we manage to stay ignorant of the changing world around us (which is a ridiculous notion, of course). That, in turn, leads to the conclusion that individuality (in this
sense) is a make believe concept. We're ever changing.
However, this realisation should not be interpreted as people's private, individual lives are not important. On the contrary. It's vital that if we want the world to be in peace, everyone's freedom to explore their own, individual thoughts and lives must be protected and guaranteed. We accomplish this by building a cybernetic society that prohibits accidents and violence against others, by simply simply limiting
the possibility (for accidents) and need (for violence).
The cybernetic systems would not there to control us. No one would agree to having a chip implanted in the brain that destroys his/her individuality. They would be there to enhance our abilities to do the research required to arrive at the most informed decisions, if we ever decide to go that way.
When you take these phrases from Jaque and you put them in the context of today's monetary, competition and paranoid driven society, then they seem absolutely appauling, naïve and even dangerous. But when you apply the same comments on an entirely different social environment, where the agreed upon base goal is to provide for every single individual on the planet, then they're no longer threatening or scary ideas. They're useful extensions of our own abilities.
They make it possible for everyone to experience a freedom no one on earth today seem to have. It is, as Jaque would say, the intelligent and humane application of current technology, to enhance living conditions for everyone.
@mljungberg10 Fresco's book is carefully worded to be sure. He tries his best to make his ideas sound as reasonable as possible but he is also a master of language and doesn't share many of the same views as most of the world so when he speaks of "keeping your individuality" in the venus project, this is actually coming from a man who believes that there is no such thing as individuality.
okay, just to respond to this makes my stomach hurt a little. All this is an attempt to discredit and slander the movement. I am not a "member" but do support their efforts in changing what is. The powers that be will fight it tooth and nail because they don't want change, everyone making enough to thrive will fight it. while millions upon millions starve, commit crimes to survive, and [fill in the rest] poverty makes these people happy. im ashamed so many buy this garbage (projection).
And i also dont believe in all the conspracy theoroes etc they have, but i am in it for them because the their ideology of the society is not based upon competing.. Its based upon colloboration
Sad thing is that everything that you are blaming this for is not based on any viable evidence either its just suspection. I dont belive in things i just try to trust. If it goes shit, it cant be worse than the world of competition we are living in currently.
And "venusprojection" How can you say that property rights and laws are helping people to avoid negative things that "protect" people from such abuses when all this is just happening MORE AND MORE OFTEN? How do you explain that they are PROTECTING? Law on a paper or Property rights MEANS NOTHING. To the people who rule our "Economy" You have to rid of the idealogy of ownership and accept the fact that people need ACCES not ownership you are just primitive and not trying to understand whats good.
@Jiddufan "you are just primitive and not trying to understand whats good."
That's funny. I used to believe all the zeitgeist / venus project propaganda too for about 2 years until I finally realized it's all a bunch of bs. I support your right to believe whatever it is you want to believe even if it is incredibly stupid, naive and not based in reality.
And what the hell are people talking about bible and shit in here? Since when has religions had anything to do with practical things in this world? Just pointless belief and slaving others.
What is the bad in all this? if it means that some of my body parts could be replaced by technology and would give me the possibility to live for thousands of years! That would be freaking awesome! why would every1 be scared of this?? And why would a computer program itself to compete with something if its programmed to program only things that improve colloboration? there is no such thing as computer competeing with something if its not programmed so.... You watch too much movies.
@Jiddufan Oh here we go with the "you watch too much movies" line that all brainwashed zeitgeisters use. My argument is based upon science not movies. Do your own research instead of just parroting the stuff you are told by people with their own biased agendas. Research Runaway AI and the Singularity. Jacque Fresco's website recommends a book called "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil and you can get a better understanding of my concerns by reading that book.
A resource economy makes sense to me. The problems continue to grow, and more people are suffering from this corrupt, manipulated monetary system which is collapsing all around us. But I fear that the suffering will have to get worse before they say, We're ready to try a system where our advanced technology could make it possible for us to work together instead of fighting each other. Who knows? I AM enjoying watching this destructive, outdated system collapse, though. Can't happen soon enough.
@dvmovie You enjoy watching the system collapse while people are suffering.... Nice to know what kind of human being you are. How many videos are you trolling this message on?
@justintempler -- I'm enjoying watching the system collapse so we can hurry up and END THE SUFFERING! The longer this corrupt system endures, the longer the people are trapped in debt-slavery, and sent off to suffer and die in wars for corporate profits. Billions to be made from bombing. When people are forced to fight and take from each other, this is what we get. It's so sick! We have to bring this system down... now!
@dvmovie If the system collapses it isn't going to end your suffering Steve, it'll make it worse. You've had a spoiled life living in the West, you don't even know what true suffering is. If the system collapses it'll be dog eat dog and your "debt slaves" as you so much like to call them, will be the ones that suffer the most.
@dvmovie Between your video editing skills and your guitar playing how come we didn't see helping out at the Media Festival? Those video previews from the festival look like crap, I guess they didn't have the benefit of your expertise.
I'm received your reply. Thank you. I am not trying to come across as a person who comes from a negative place as that is not me. I feel that the only way out of this living he'll as I see it is through positive energy. As for the singularity and the concept of ai. These are all born of human invention therefor if the safety precautions are not put in place by the programmer then humanity deserves all it gets. I have watched almost everything there is to watch and over a wide spectrum of subjec
This old guy is trying to bring something new to the world. Some answers and some hope. You bring some snippets off shit from his book. You are a legend. I hope the world listens to you, because you sound like a very clever person. Arse 'o'
@BEATS144 I've read the book. I used to be a supporter. Think of me what you will but I'm just trying to give people information and get them to think a little. I recommend learning about the Singularity and Runaway AI for a better understanding. Fresco's website recommends "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil. Peace.
I am not part of the movement, however the comments made really do not hurt the TZM or Venus Project. . With out supporting or harping on either side. What do you think should be done. What do you think about our current situation as a whole. Do you really believe this is as good as it gets? Do you really believe that we are the peak of evolution.
@Hatchetryder84 I don't think the world should be micromanaged by any particular group be it either a corporate or government entity. I support liberty and limited government, free markets and sound money rather than fiat currency or no currency at all. The Gov should have the responsibility to protect life and keep us free. Is this as good as it gets? Of course not. We are heading in the wrong direction and moving more towards centralized economic planning and the loss of personal liberty.
@Hatchetryder84 Do I really believe that we are the peak of evolution? As of right now from what I can see we are. I don't consider man-made technology suprassing us in intelligence and then assimilating the human race the evolution of man. I see it more like the evolution of the machine and the end of the human race. I am all for the continuation of natural biological evolution of the human race and don't think scientists should be in charge of designing the species.
@Hatchetryder84 Finally, I think the creation of super intelligent machines is something that should be avoided due to the massive danger it could potentially pose to the world and the future of our species. Therefore, even though I am a libertarian, I do think that certain technology and research should be banned in the US at least since it poses such a threat or spiraling out of control. Biological weapons and weapons of mass destruction would also fall into this category.
/watch?v=JPVOPzYiCeg even Kaku agrees
xM4DM4X 20 hours ago
@xM4DM4X If you watch that video he says that yes, many of the greatest minds in the field say that machines will be smarter than us in 20 years or so and could even take over, he also says that he himself doesn't know for sure. He correctly states that silicon has its limits but that there are other methods on the horizon. Once they are created it could continue Moores law and that scientists will be right. Kaku says he thinks end of century, computers could be smart enough to be dangerous.
venusprojection 15 hours ago
@venusprojection Yes he did they "could" be dangerous but he explicitly explains how engineers would be absolutely certain to make sure their obedient to our will is an integral component of the development. Again I believe you under estimate scientists and what is possible when you apply unbounded science to every any problem. I don't think you're scientific youself or you would understand this, no offense to your intelligence.
xM4DM4X 9 hours ago
@xM4DM4X So thanks for proving my point.
venusprojection 15 hours ago
Also when he says that most people won't be needed to manage this world he means that meaningless jobs such as accounting, banking, economists, etc. won't be needed to support the exchange of information to keep the world going as everything will be unified under technology, which is and always be UNDER OUR CONTROL and should be used efficiently. Again if you were to fully post what he is referring to in his text it wouldn't look oike he is a nut who wants a "skynet". This video is full of bias
xM4DM4X 4 days ago
"Also when he says that most people won't be needed to manage this world he means that meaningless jobs such as accounting, banking, economists, etc. won't be needed to support the exchange of information to keep the world going as everything will be unified under technology which is and always be UNDER OUR CONTROL and should be used efficiently"
Right. You'll have a handful of overseers watching the machines run everything. So technically they'd be under the control of a handful of "experts".
venusprojection 4 days ago
@xM4DM4X That is, until Strong AI is created and then no amount of "experts" will be ABLE to control the machines. Again, go to the venus project website and look at the recommended books section. Go down the list and find "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil and start putting 2 and 2 together.
venusprojection 4 days ago
You clearly don't comprehend what Jacque is proposing. When he says that robots can program and rebuild themselves you must understand that a computer can ONLY run within the code that is it's back bone. Jacque means that they will be able to write their own process for cooking foods, building things that WE design, or something else that fits in a certain category. You are DEFINATELTY taking his words out of context.
xM4DM4X 4 days ago
@xM4DM4X "you must understand that a computer can ONLY run within the code that is it's back bone. "
Actually it is you who clearly doesn't comprehend what I am saying. Your program argument is meaningless when we are talking about technology in 20-30 years time. You are basing your entire argument on the "AI" that currently exists today not the "Strong AI" that will exist in the near future. Research Strong AI so you can understand the validity in my argument.
venusprojection 4 days ago
@venusprojection How can I research how technology that doesn't exist? Please, there is no need for xenophobia when it comes to new technology. The tools of TODAY can do EVERYTHING we need it to do to solve our problems! There is no logic in computers having a motive to eradicate man kind. It is this type of thinking that limits humans technologically simply out of fear of the unknown. Let go of your constricting ideals of this society and realize that so many things are possible in this realm.
xM4DM4X 3 days ago
@xM4DM4X It is impossible to have a real constructive conversation about this with someone who is willfully ignorant of things like Runaway AI and how nanotechnology will change everything. Wanting to make the world a better place is one thing and recklessly supporting seriously dangerous proposals without careful scrutiny is something else completely. And how can you research something that doesn't exit? The same way you research The Venus Project which also doesn't exist.
venusprojection 3 days ago
@venusprojection '...willfully ignorant of things like Runaway AI and how nanotechnology will change everything." Don't disrespect engineers' intelligence. Seriously just as a chemist like myself wouldn't make a "runaway" reaction, a computer engineer would never make a program that would go TERMINATOR on the whole human race. How the hell do you know what nanotechnology will do? You're talking out your ass. Do you not realize the corruption? The system is failing and we have a front row seat
xM4DM4X 2 days ago
@xM4DM4X What I said was a fact. You obviously aren't aware of things like Runaway AI and the dangers of nanotechnology and you have not demonstrated a desire to further your understanding by learning about them. Therefore, you are willfully ignorant. It's not disrespect it's the truth. Now seeing as how I'm the one who has studied these subjects for years having read the works of kerzweil, morovac, vinge and others just which one of us is REALLY talking out of their asses?
venusprojection 2 days ago
@venusprojection Ok I can't lay this out anymore simply: books and speculation are baseless representations of what technology will be, they are non-existent and therefore are NOT truth. How can you insult engineers/scientists by thinking they would let a pretty important loophole exist like that? There is no possible way for a robotic doomsday to happen UNLESS someone let it happen on purpose. Technology is under the control of it's inventor, seriously what are you snorting? I'll stick to pot..
xM4DM4X 2 days ago
@venusprojection PS Of course there will have to be experts who run maintenance because everything malfunctions sometimes. We must impregnate values of equality and cooperation into our new generations instead of violence and competition. Then the we won't have to worry about anybody abusing there responsibilities and we will all work in harmony as every single one of the trillions molecules in our body do.
xM4DM4X 3 days ago
@xM4DM4X On the subject of "experts" that will be overseeing The Venus Project we have to mention "The Interdisciplinary Teams". If you understand how the Interdisciplinary Teams work then you know that the citizens have no say and it's literally a scientific dictatorship in the hands of small groups of unelected people who think they know best and are better than everyone else. So considering the entire history of man as a species it would be suicide to accept such a dictatorship for the world.
venusprojection 3 days ago
@venusprojection You are construing his message in a wrong way. He doesn't advocate a dictatorship of robots ha ha.It is best to have everyone educated so together we can make a sound decision . No one obtains an education worth a shit in this society, there are exceptions for those who excel such as einstein, MLK, tesla, etc. I would rather have a group of intelligent, moral engs/scientists orchestrating a society than a bunch of "politicians." You don't think it's a dictatorship already?
xM4DM4X 2 days ago
@xM4DM4X "You don't think it's a dictatorship already?"
Again, I can't stress enough how I do not support the current system we are in. I also agree the education system is screwed up. So while I recognize the need for us to change society that doesn't mean I will naturally agree with your solution. Govs are too powerful in today's society. I believe the answer isn't to hand over even MORE power into the hands of control freaks. Individual liberty and private property rights are the answer.
venusprojection 2 days ago
@venusprojection PS Complete equality can only be obtained when the systems that divide us (money, social class, race, religion, ownership, etc.) become irrelevant (this will naturally lead to "sharing"). You saying that Jacque wants machine genocide, group of dictators, and doesn't have the best interests of the human race in mind is preposterous and utterly unsubstantiated. No system is perfect and the TVP is not an exception. I'm sorry but your argument is WEAK, mine is based on SCIENCE/LOGIC
xM4DM4X 2 days ago
Sounds like we may become the Borg !
420gma 1 week ago in playlist the venus project
a world run by SKYNET and Terminators NO THANKS
21boxhead 1 week ago
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Gilkail85 2 weeks ago
I do not agree people buying cars with the money which they can live for years with.already workers all around the world is living with the mininum no matter they are working at a first class company.In my belief, a person must have minimum wealth when was born.
metekavruk07 3 weeks ago
@metekavruk07 You have the right to your opinion. You are obviously well intentioned however I will say what you want is not only impossible but extremely dangerous to pursue. The consequences of a failed centrally planned economy have always resulted in death on a massive scale.
venusprojection 3 weeks ago
I personelly do not trust Venus project as i have noticed Illuminati signs in official documentaries of Zeitgeist.I accept most of the things are perfect in project such as resource based economy.But not in the hands of these guys.
metekavruk07 3 weeks ago
@metekavruk07 an RBE is far from perfect. It requires that all the worlds resources be handed over to a small group of unelected "experts" who are chosen by another small group of unelected "experts". There is no democratic process at all, and "ordinary people" wont have any say in who will run the world and ultimately decide what and how much the people of the world are "allowed" to have. It would be a centralized power grab of un-imaginable scale as it pertains to every aspect of our lives.
venusprojection 3 weeks ago
@venusprojection as i understand it does not require a specific resource country to be used.Allready we all have sun ,wave and wind for free energy.Public transport system is also very good against individual vehicles wasting space and energy.I count these ideas perfect and a 'must' for the sake of the humanbeing. I am living in a country which is about to be divided by races for invading resources.My country is the center of the world and i know it very well.
metekavruk07 3 weeks ago
@metekavruk07 I agree that alternative energy is a must for society but those forms of energy are available in the free market capitalist system as well. Car companies should not be forced to make electric cars as that would hurt their business and therefore the people who depend on those jobs. The production of fuel efficient vehicles / solar panels etc would voluntarily increase as there become more of a market for them. So our focus should be on improving the free market economy.
venusprojection 3 weeks ago
There are no members in TZM but supporters. It's not membership based movement. Obviously you have never been participating in this movement otherwise you would know it. Also you seem to have read or watch to many Sci-Fi stuff in Holywood style as The Terminator or I am Robot.
Intelligent forms to to their best to live in symbiosis with the environment and have no reason to destroy or endanger other life forms. That is what would make a difference between intelligent machine and emotional human
TheExtremeKaos 1 month ago
Human species lacks of control over its thought processes happening within their minds that's why our thinking is unconscious and unintelligent and prone to be controlled by emotions which causes destructive and irrational actions. Intelligent machine wouldn't have this problem as it doesn't have emotions and would have no reason to cause the damage to life forms or the environment as it would understand that it's thrving depends on the environment and other life forms...
TheExtremeKaos 1 month ago
@TheExtremeKaos To think you would be able to understand the thought processes of a super intelligent machine that dwarfs your own intellect by immeasurable amounts is really naive. Again you use the same straw man argument all TZMers use "you watch too many sci-fi movies". How about you read Ray Kurzweil "The Singularity is Near" and then we can have an honest discussion when you know what you're talking about.
venusprojection 1 month ago
@venusprojection
The singularity theory actually supports what I said...
TheExtremeKaos 1 month ago
@TheExtremeKaos Well then let's look at it closer. In Kurzweil's book he says that once a human's brain is "upgraded" with machine super intelligence, the non-biological portion of the brain becomes predominant ie our natural human thought processes could be controlled and or dominated by the machine portion of our brain. Furthermore once the singularity occurs the explosion of technological advancement will be so blindingly fast we won't be able to keep up without merging completely with (cont
venusprojection 1 month ago
@TheExtremeKaos (cont from last) the machine super intelligence. In the singularity is near he describes that man will merge with machines completely becoming one giant super intelligent machine with a "shared consciousness" (important to note Fresco doesn't even BELIEVE in "consciousness" so that part is debatable if we're talking about TVP). Then, in the book he says that we will expand into space at the speed of light assimilating all the matter in our path until we become the Universe itself
venusprojection 1 month ago
@TheExtremeKaos (final) So, baed off what you said I suppose this is the kind of future you support for our future? You support the idea that humanity will/should be controlled by machines and absorbed into a collective machine life form that assimilates the Universe to become all powerful? Because that's basically what it comes down too if you support the singularity and TVP. It's funny that TVP/TZM don't believe in "evil" because so that's exactly how I would describe their plans for humanity.
venusprojection 1 month ago
There are no such things as good & evil. They're illusional mental concepts. There are no such things in the Universe as evil & good. Those concepts are absolutely mind made, subjective and illusional. For humanity to be able to finally become intelligent it would mean to shift state of mind from being unconscious to conscious one - acquring abilty for self observance of the thought chatter constantly happening within mind & acquiring ability of not automatically act out of it..
TheExtremeKaos 1 month ago
@TheExtremeKaos I already understand your views on those things, as I illustrated in my previous posts. I didnt ask you to defend those views, although I do disagree with them. The topic was the singularity and what it means for humanity as a society. I laid it all out there and you refused to comment on it. Obviously you DO support those ideas and want humanity to be controlled by machines and in essence become a machine that assimilates the universe as you didn't deny it at all.
venusprojection 1 month ago
@TheExtremeKaos
How can you be so sure of what you are saying? Just spread some doubt and we will listen. You sound dogmatic.
dirkschuitsma 2 weeks ago
There are no dogmas as there is no ultimate truth. And that is simple and basic approach on which Resource Based Economy is based on...
TheExtremeKaos 2 weeks ago
Last time i checked, Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco went their seperate ways to pursue their projects independantly.
kornjfdm 1 month ago
@kornjfdm You are right, but that happened after Feb 9th 2011, when this video was posted.
venusprojection 1 month ago
TO ALL WITH ANY INTELLIGENCE. THE VENUS PROJECT AND ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT ARE SOURCES OF INFORMATION ONLY. IF YOU SEE FLAWS THEN SAY SO AND SUGGEST IMPROVEMNENTS. THE POINT IS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO EVOLVE BEYOND MONEY. WE HAVE TO. OR WE WILL DESTROY OURSELVES.
nansir 2 months ago 2
Oh dear me. Ok we'll stick with the current system. I'd start digging the nuclear bunker if I were you.
nansir 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
artificial hands and pacemakers would scare the shit out of people 100 years ago. don't project your fears. that's the only message Jacque has to say about this. people - stop projecting your fears, and start realizing you are victims of culture. use science to figure out what is best for your survival and well-being.
also, TZM is obviously made from people too unfamiliar with TVP. that's why TVP part ways with them.
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
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TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
nowhere in any of the quotes does it imply that humans will not be needed at all. only less and less. also, there is nothing wrong with cybernation. watch "Transcendent man" by Kurzweil.
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael I've read Kurzweil's book The Singularity is Near. In it he says that thinking machines implanted in our brains will control us and eventually we will all merge to become 1 super intelligent machine that spreads out at the speed of light assimilating the entire universe. Certainly you cannot compare that to a pace maker and expect me to take that seriously.
venusprojection 2 months ago
@venusprojection you can't stop technology, people will improve their organs, their brain tissue etc. if you choose to remain behind that's your loss.
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael Actually you CAN stop technology that poses a severe threat to the existence of the human race. Just as the development of nuclear weapons is banned and deterred today, so can any other kind of technology that poses a danger.
venusprojection 2 months ago
@venusprojection that relies on your definition of "danger". I don't see it as danger to increase our abilities and attributes. yes, it could sound a little scary maybe, but i'm not sure what are you suggesting? that people would rather remain as they are?
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael Obviously something that improves your organ functionality is not a danger. But it depends on how advanced a technology we are talking about. A nanotechnology super intelligence should never be created, even if it's under the guise of "enhancing our thinking capability". The human race merging with nanotechnology to the point where we become a completely new species exponentially evolving and assimilating ("improving") the universe is what I would consider a dangerous path.
venusprojection 2 months ago
@venusprojection how do you define the instant when it is no longer "improvement" but "becoming a new species", isn't a guy with artificial legs, running faster because of it (they do it today) - a "new species"? what is so "dangerous" about becoming smarter and merging with machines. this is completely arbitrary and based on your opinions.
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael Again, artificial limbs and pace makers are not comparable to mental upgrades through super intelligent nanotechnology. Kurzweil states in his book that if you "upgrade" your thought processes with a super intelligent computer it becomes the predominant portion of the brain. Since neither you nor Fresco believe in "free will" that explains why you do not see this as a problem. I on the other hand do not think man should be controlled and taken over by machines in this way.
venusprojection 2 months ago
@venusprojection that's interesting. thx for answering. I really don't believe in free will. I guess that's why I feel ok about it. I don't think we will lose our illusion of free will by this either. but nevermind.
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael Well you have the free will to believe whatever it is you want to believe. Thanks for the conversation.
venusprojection 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael Further dangers: Hackers today can wirelessly infiltrate even the most secure networks and systems. New viruses are also developed every day that can perform a multitude of operations and cause massive amounts of damage. As technology progresses and improves so will these dangers. Software already currently exists that can remotely update computer implants inside of people as well. Solar storms and emp can also fry electronics and be catastrophic for such upgraded cyborgs.
venusprojection 2 months ago
@venusprojection what progress would be made and what wouldn't? this whole area is very complicated in terms of concepts like "soul" "consciousness" "self" "free will" etc. someone might say they will be "endangered" I don't think any of them exists. not to mention, "endangered"... the only danger I see is for who thinks they exist to be awakened from their illusions.
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael "what progress would be made and what wouldn't?"
We can use some common sense and have a sensible debate on that. For instance, creating "Strong AI" (if uve read kurzweil u know what that means) is an extremely dangerous proposition for the simple fact that we dont know what the end result might be. We may face a Runaway AI scenario where once the Strong AI is created it leads the continuous creation of more advanced Strong AI that cannot be contained by mere humans.
venusprojection 2 months ago
@venusprojection and i wasn't comparing pace makers to that, i was comparing technology of 100 years ago to a pace maker, and the technology today to the futures'.
TVPActivismIsrael 2 months ago
@TVPActivismIsrael "i wasn't comparing pace makers to that, i was comparing technology of 100 years ago to a pace maker, and the technology today to the futures'."
But that is exactly the kind of technology that is predicted will exist in 25-30 years time. So you were.
venusprojection 2 months ago
You had to spend a lot of time trying to find most insidious sounding lines and then put them out of context.
tazmaniainc 3 months ago
you quote-mine
quote on page 60 is missing:
"attuned as they’ve been to being directed by other humans for thousands of years"
tazmaniainc 3 months ago
@tazmaniainc ...so? Those words do not change the meaning of the overall statement in any significant way whatsoever. That is why it was not included. Their inclusion changes nothing.
venusprojection 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
QUOTES: Taken out of context. Read the book.
OutbackAL 3 months ago
And you are a litle guy sik of the mind, by the tyranny of the govermment and pushed to that thing they whant the people do, going support the govermment. I mean is like people like you this world never will be a just world, without which they are silent. You belive on crazy fanatics of NWO and followers of Alex Jones telling a lie. Whenever someone tries to create a world fit for everyone, someone is always putting work on the floor and then fight against my comment saying you are true, go cure
Zeitproduction 4 months ago
Damn i want the damn truth
tweenky420 4 months ago
@tweenky420 truth is; the new world order will be brought about through the so called Zeitgeist movement and Venus project. This whole 'truth' experience we've all been having is bullshit.
StreetInsurgent 3 months ago
@StreetInsurgent If NWO does happen, who will save us?
anythingnew 3 months ago
@anythingnew it will and no one. The end will come after.
StreetInsurgent 3 months ago
@StreetInsurgent I mean, do you think the completed NWO can be eventually destroyed? Or will they persist for all time?
anythingnew 3 months ago
@anythingnew it can't possibly be destroyed. It's perfected. Before our very eyes, conducted from behind the scenes. There's nothing we can do, at all, except to prepare ourselves. Without getting all religious, i'd advise you to read the bible. It's texts are dedicated to preparing you for such an event, as a matter of fact, all it ever does is expose the elite and warn you of them. After they've completed their task; which will deceive many, especially those who 'know' the 'truth', we w8 4 God
StreetInsurgent 3 months ago
@StreetInsurgent You "really" think a sky fairy will save us? There is no proof. If he was good he would have done something by now.
anythingnew 3 months ago
@anythingnew to be as ignorant as to call a creator, father - a sky fairy lol. not only that but there is more proof of god than there is of evolution. i refuse to go into it on here. and its not a case of him being so good, humanity has made its choice. he will save those who truly want his help, those who wait and persevere. its really quite simple. dont see it how religions want you to see it. this physical form we are in is merely a dream, an experience to lead us into eternity. do research
StreetInsurgent 3 months ago
@StreetInsurgent You've never even seen or talked to him so stop calling him "father".
What about bacteria and germ mutation?
IT IS a case of him being "good". He's not righteous for letting us suffer.
You can wait all you want. No one's coming.
anythingnew 3 months ago
@anythingnew bacteria and germ mutation? good point. i haven't an answer but a suggestion. What about AIDs? Cancer? all these terrible diseases and problems. As far as i know they were created by the elite, the evil ones. So i wouldn't b surprised if they were responsible for all such things. I mean, why not... plenty of years to conjure up such atrocities. I refer to him as father because i believe he is the reason for my being here. I advice you, once again, to do some thorough research lol
StreetInsurgent 3 months ago
@anythingnew and btw.... u show signs of a personal anger for him.. as you refer to him as being in existence, and then you say He is not righteous. So you clearly know he exists deep down, you''re just scared to admit it because that would mean you're responsible... I am not getting into this on youtube. Don't come across so annoyed when you speak about God, you give the impression you have some person vendetta with him lol. If you apparently don't believe then be humble enough to accept i do
StreetInsurgent 3 months ago
I understand your view, However whats stopping the same thing happening in a monetary system? - could someone please answer me this (this is not sarcastic)
Jameswinslife 4 months ago
@Jameswinslife In the current system we could implement laws to outlaw the development of such technology which is the way I think we should go. In the RBE there are no laws so this is impossible and the whole system itself encourages its creation. Also in an RBE where everything is computerized and linked together it would be extremely easy for the whole world system to be taken over by such an AI while in a monetary system not everything is centralized so it gives more leeway for defenses.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection what tonysanthedarkstar was saying is correct, AI are simply programs that do what we tell it to and like any creation of man you can build numerous overrides and fail safes if the systems not doing what it supposed to. Again my understanding is that the RBE encourages the creation of a computer that doesn't make decisions but rather acts like a giant calculator - recommend googling - Robot Biologist
Jameswinslife 4 months ago
@Jameswinslife I am talking about strong AI. Strong AI has yet to be developed, but will be possible within the next 15-20 years. STRONG AI is capable of free thought, because it will be patterned after the human brain once we develop nanotechnology that can reverse engineer the human brain completely it will change the way AI is developed.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@Jameswinslife That is just a quick answer there are other reasons but that's all I have time for now. I'll talk more about this is in a later video too because the question comes up a lot.
venusprojection 4 months ago
Just, keep in mind that "AI" will never "replace" humans, a "human creation" can never "surpass" its creator, and AI only is a program that does what you tell it to do. There is no intelligence whatsoever. Without an economy, you have no reason to work anylonger. Well, maybe we'd all work but in a different view. People do not work because they "feel they have to do something", but because they want money, otherwise, they would all end up in the streets. But you think for yourself, i like it.
tonysanthedarkstar 4 months ago
@tonysanthedarkstar "AI only is a program that does what you tell it to do. There is no intelligence whatsoever."
Based on current technology you are correct but going forward it will be possible to reverse engineer the human brain and create what is called "Strong AI" which is capable of free thought just like we are.
venusprojection 4 months ago
Whats your solution ? More tyranny ?
irtjeff144 4 months ago
@irtjeff144 Ron Paul 2012.
venusprojection 4 months ago
It never changes. One minute they have a solution the next oh wait we fucked up and have a better one just to make it worse. You people never change. Fuck politicians. When Ron gets into office its time to reopen 911 and hang those fuckers in public along with everyone involved. I been working since i was 13.. The harder i work they less i make? Fucking stupid. This country cant get anymore retarded. Venus project I support.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 I agree corrupt politicians have twisted this country and the world into something horrible because they have tried to control the world and the people and suck up all the wealth so the Gov can have all the power by making people depend on them to survive. This has to be reversed and I believe it can. But supporting TVP is basically supporting the same ideas that got us to where we are today. Centrally planned economies continue to fail us today, they have never worked and never will
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection How about this. We Put People like Ron Paul into office to see over the Venus project? I agree that there are good people out there,but I still want to live like an advanced society. The venus project and good people to over see it sounds good to me. We are smart and evolved enough now that we dont need a bunch of people in one building making decisions that we dont want made. We pay taxes and those taxes pay their check so tecknicaly we employe them. Its time to move forward.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 "We are smart and evolved enough now that we dont need a bunch of people in one building making decisions that we dont want made."
That is exactly what would happen in TVP. Experts in various fields of science choose amongst themselves who will run the interdisciplinary teams that will manage all aspects of society. In that system the vast majority hand over any kind of influence in decision making to those who are supposedly the most intelligent. You think it's bad now? Just wait.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection I still support the Venus project. If you like the idea of working to survive is up to you. I prefer living free and free education. I support the Venus project 2,000% . Your telling me you dont like the idea? Free living,education,food ect? I dont know about you,but we dont need politicians all they do is cause problems. Its a job that gets abused that effects everyone. The best way to eliminate politicians is to eliminate their jobs. Fuck politicians.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 "The best way to eliminate politicians is to eliminate their jobs."
Oh yeah see that's what TVP is all about "eliminating" people they consider problematic and focusing on brainwashing the next generation and controlling everything. But go ahead I support your right to build a society but if you try to take over my way of lfie and my country you'd better think twice about what you are advocating.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection As for your comment that "people will die" you forget that the majority of death id because of our political system.So either way someone is going to die.My generation are tired of how your generation fucked us over and were going to end it.If you wish to be left behind you can stay with the rest of the other idiots that left a mess for us to clean up.We dont owe you shit.You owe us after how your generation fucked it all up.Change is here get use to it.Period.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 Wow really nice sounds like a death threat to me. Good example of how dangerous a brainwashed transhumanist cult member can be.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection Your not very literate if that sounded like a death threat to you. I think you like drama and you will take anything as a death threat so you can play hero and act our your psycho fantasy. Maybe you point out the part that sounded like a death treat and remember..... Your an idiot.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 No, you just don't understand what is you are saying. I don't have to say anything else really because your words speak for themselves.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection Venus project all the way.
kren2012 4 months ago
lets look back at history. Every fucking mess started with a stupid fucking politician that got the great idea to rule the world like it fucking matters. then wanted more riches. Nobody cares how rich you are. Nobody cares if you rule the world. Why bother. Everybody wants to live in peace,why start shit and spreed hate just to get a peice of a pie that you already had. The rest of the population is already dead and they want more.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 "lets look back at history. Every fucking mess started with a stupid fucking politician that got the great idea to rule the world like it fucking matters. then wanted more riches."
Well the riches help them gain what they really want more power and control and THAT's what people who want to rule the world are after just pure power and control over everything. But TVP/RBE would be no different as it's literally about taking over all the world's resources and taking away our rights
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection But go ahead I support your right to build a society but if you try to take over my way of lfie and my country you'd better think twice about what you are advocating......... Why would you say that? Are you a politician? Listen man its a free country and if I need your permission to live a life I want you are the kinda person we are eliminating. People like you only want their way of life,but dont want others to have theirs. Do your thing and I'll do mine. Now go fuck your self
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 Things you've said in this convo: "you are the kinda person we are eliminating" and then also "So either way someone is going to die.My generation are tired of how your generation fucked us over and were going to end it.'
And then this is also funny you said "Nobody is telling you how to live." Then in the next sentence said "Its people like you who are only for their own self interest.Greedy fucking losers. " LOL. You have a lot of anger and seem like an extremely dangerous person
venusprojection 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@venusprojection Your right nobody is telling you how to live. I like how you say that "But go ahead I support your right to build a society but if you try to take over my way of lfie and my country you'd better think twice about what you are advocating." Your a fucking idiot. That to me sounds like a threat. If you cant figure out who the idiot is here I cant fix stupid. Stupid is as stupid does.
kren2012 4 months ago
@venusprojection Nobody is telling you how to live. If you dont want the Venus project then continue your way of life Im not stopping you. Its people like you who are only for their own self interest.Greedy fucking losers. Notice how many dislikes are on your video? Should tell you something. Either change with the times or become an old man telling your grand kids why their generation sucks. All you can think about is your life style regardless of what others want.
kren2012 4 months ago
@venusprojection Tell you what. You give us half the USA and you take the other. Dont be jealous when you look at how we are living,but dont complain because you made the decision to stick with the system that keeps you down and your kids down. Its your life your going to have to live it not me. So maybe before you start talking about how bad things are think about what got us here in the first place. People like you who only look out for their own life style.
kren2012 4 months ago
@venusprojection Lets look at the numbers. People like you are fading and your the 1% of the people who are only concerned about your own life.You dont care how it effects others as long as you are happy.Things have changed.Man has done just fine before politics ever happened.We lived for thousands of years with out it.I dont care who you are or what you own.I am for the Venus project all the way.
kren2012 4 months ago
I need to learn how to fix robots and computers ,because that's where all the jobs will be in the future!
mrsexxc1 4 months ago
When you think about it politicians are already like robots that are reprograming them selves. They are worse than computers,because they cant make decisions to better man they do it for greed not the betterment of the planet,people and life. So I will take a robot over a Fuck tard politician.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 Also for politicians you can vote them out every 4 years and hopefully replace them with someone better. Once the super intelligent robots are in charge of decision making and the democratic republic no longer exists all you can do is appeal to a group of super elite scientists who will decide if you are informed enough for your complaints / concerns o be valid. And when the computers "merge" with you then you'll be completely under their influence. Doesn't sound that great to me!
venusprojection 4 months ago
You have a good point in the video.......... But....... Its still kinda weak. Good point with the living computer,but I would rather have a robot in charge than a greedy fucking politician.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 That's why our attempt is to change all that on a grass roots level and to only elect honest politicians who will obey the constitution and put an end to cronie-capitalism. We've had some successes as of late and our momentum is only growing. We have an actual plan for success and the means to accomplish it. TVP / TZM is so unpractical neither have a plan as to where to even begin to create such a society as they propose. It hasn't even been tested and the tech doesnt exist yet.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection I understand man,but until we get them honest politicians into office I would rather put a fucking bullet into my head and let them fuck it up with out me. Robots are not the problem. Its the people who program them. People are the problem. How about we start at grass roots and find scientist that will build honest robots. If people can be programed and still screw it up I give up on humanity. Maybe the world is better of with out humans.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 The danger in building these "honest robots" as you put it is that at some point, if our goal is to constantly improve the resource efficiency of the whole world those robots are going to eventually become so intelligent that no human programmer can maintain control over the program. Take a look into the singularity and runaway ai and the idea these machines will "improve" the human race genetically and merge with our bodies and minds. This is dangerous stuff we are talking about here
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection you must be a dis info shill.... listen man. all politicians want is an easy job and our money. thats all. they will use any tactic to get it. Fuck politicians. We can do a better job running our own lives. Humanity is a joke and it doesnt matter anymore. As far as i see it this entire world is fucked up free loaders who dont work. its not a job that deserves masive rewards. your paid to ballence a check book and look at how that turned out.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 Not all politicians are the same. There is a legal system that exists in America for the people to use. We have OURSELVES to blame for electing the same kind of corrupt people over and over again and we let them do whatever they want and it has ruined everything! But there are honest decent people who run for office and the media tries to black them out - we need to support them and change the system but it's just as important that we make the RIGHT changes. TVP is the wrong idea.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@kren2012 True corrupt politicians are dangerous as well and are responsible for the deaths of millions but that's why the goal should be to replace those politicians and elect real people who believe in freedom like Ron Paul and his supporters do. Then once we take the country back and end the wars and end the fed and restore prosperity and save the economy we can give other nations a chance to do the same.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection if ron paul turns out to be real and the world changes thats awesome. ron paul can make and be apart of the venus project. we keep people like him there untill we get it right. ron paul for pres.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 TVP calls for the elimination of private property rights. The Venus Project is incompatible with Ron Paul's message. Ron Paul's position is also that free individuals to be personally responsible for themselves. He is also a supporter of the free market and Austrian economic theory, believing that all attempts to centrally control the economy are doomed to failure. Just switch sides and give up on the venus project lie and support Ron Paul's message of liberty instead like I did.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection Listen man. I dont mind that. This country is so fucked up any ways. It doesnt matter how you spit it the proof is in the pudding. Freeing our selves from daily work gives us more time to focus on making the future better. Polticians always screw it up and say they are going to make things better when really its a play on words to steal from us. I want free school and when I work its to better the world not a shit pay check. Fuck politics and the people in it. Its a joke.
kren2012 4 months ago
@kren2012 Our politicians have let us down that is for sure. But it's people with the mindset that we need to redistribute wealth as in tvps case resources are the reason why all these governments and companies getting bailed out in the first place. If we allow the entire system to collapse and go along with crazy ideas like TVP billions of people are going to die as a result. We need to elect Ron Paul now to really make a difference and save the economy and end the wars and corruption
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection Give me Ron Paul and the Venus project. We are a well evolved species its time to act like one. Know what i mean. I am all about Venus project even if I have to be the one to die for it.
kren2012 4 months ago
"...claim that I have taken this out of context. Sadly, that's not the case."
Oh, but it is. Personally, I find intellectual dishonesty to be distasteful, but you do as you please, I suppose.
To anyone whom haven't yet read the book, I recommend it. Computerised, cybernated systems are tools that remove the need for humans to manually manage and operate the system. AI isn't dangerous. Humans are.
When did a computer system last conspire against you, to take your freedom away?
mljungberg10 4 months ago
@mljungberg10 I don't take anything out of context. Do you know about Runaway AI or The Singularity? When Fresco says machines will surpass the human capacity for thought that human beings will become a modified species and that we'll begin to engineer our bodies to keep up with technology that's exactly what he's talking about. The Venus projects website even recommends "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil. In that book he says humans will become machines that assimilate the universe.
venusprojection 4 months ago
@venusprojection I just saw your other video on runaway AI, and I have to apologise. You clearly are not being intellectually dishonest. Paraphrasing Jaque:
- Opinions are dangerous, and should not be allowed
- Humans should be kept out of the decision-making process -There is no such thing as individuality
- Cybernetic technology run by AI is the inevitable future
Let me address these in other posts (seeing as I only get so many characters per post).
mljungberg10 4 months ago
The thing about opinions, is that they're arrived at through personal experiences,
which in turn is filtered through our biased view of the world. There's nothing wrong
with that, when kept on a personal level. After all, that's how our brains are wired.
What makes opinions dangerous, is the idea that we should be allowed to make
decisions that affect thousands, and sometimes millions, of people, based on mere
opinions.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
What is an opinion? It's an uninformed, subjective view on some thing.
If we really want a world of peace, where we don't have to worry about the next one, we obviously can't exclude anyone from the necessities of life. If we don't want to exclude anyone, we cannot make decisions based on opinions. We have to do our research. The funny thing about research is that it shows things the way they really are. Which means that once verified, they're no longer opinions, but facts.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
If our opinions turns out to be wrong, we should be happy we never based decisions on those opinions.
Now, if we agree that every human being on this planet needs to be kept in the loop (have all the necessities of life), simply because that's the only way we can trust others not to do us harm, then we have our goal setup. But how can we make the earth's resources meet everyone's needs? There are simply too many variables to consider.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
What we need is to enhance our abilities to do the proper research and reach the
proper conclusions about how to provide for everyone. We do that through cybernetic
technology and AI.
Our individual nature is the result of our opinions, which are built on personal experiences and bias (not objective research). We then realise that our individuality only survive if we remain in whatever ignorant state we currently find ourselves in. Learning new things inevitably changes us as individuals.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
Our individuality, thus, is more like a snapshot of our behaviour, thougts and understandings at a certain point in time. Well, if that's true, then none of us has an individuality written in stone, unaltered and unaffected by the environment we live in, unless we manage to stay ignorant of the changing world around us (which is a ridiculous notion, of course). That, in turn, leads to the conclusion that individuality (in this
sense) is a make believe concept. We're ever changing.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
However, this realisation should not be interpreted as people's private, individual lives are not important. On the contrary. It's vital that if we want the world to be in peace, everyone's freedom to explore their own, individual thoughts and lives must be protected and guaranteed. We accomplish this by building a cybernetic society that prohibits accidents and violence against others, by simply simply limiting
the possibility (for accidents) and need (for violence).
mljungberg10 4 months ago
The cybernetic systems would not there to control us. No one would agree to having a chip implanted in the brain that destroys his/her individuality. They would be there to enhance our abilities to do the research required to arrive at the most informed decisions, if we ever decide to go that way.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
When you take these phrases from Jaque and you put them in the context of today's monetary, competition and paranoid driven society, then they seem absolutely appauling, naïve and even dangerous. But when you apply the same comments on an entirely different social environment, where the agreed upon base goal is to provide for every single individual on the planet, then they're no longer threatening or scary ideas. They're useful extensions of our own abilities.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
They make it possible for everyone to experience a freedom no one on earth today seem to have. It is, as Jaque would say, the intelligent and humane application of current technology, to enhance living conditions for everyone.
mljungberg10 4 months ago
@mljungberg10 Fresco's book is carefully worded to be sure. He tries his best to make his ideas sound as reasonable as possible but he is also a master of language and doesn't share many of the same views as most of the world so when he speaks of "keeping your individuality" in the venus project, this is actually coming from a man who believes that there is no such thing as individuality.
venusprojection 4 months ago
okay, just to respond to this makes my stomach hurt a little. All this is an attempt to discredit and slander the movement. I am not a "member" but do support their efforts in changing what is. The powers that be will fight it tooth and nail because they don't want change, everyone making enough to thrive will fight it. while millions upon millions starve, commit crimes to survive, and [fill in the rest] poverty makes these people happy. im ashamed so many buy this garbage (projection).
macgw86 4 months ago
And i also dont believe in all the conspracy theoroes etc they have, but i am in it for them because the their ideology of the society is not based upon competing.. Its based upon colloboration
Jiddufan 5 months ago
If it all would go shit in there aswell i will just give up with the humanity
Jiddufan 5 months ago
Sad thing is that everything that you are blaming this for is not based on any viable evidence either its just suspection. I dont belive in things i just try to trust. If it goes shit, it cant be worse than the world of competition we are living in currently.
Jiddufan 5 months ago
Sad thing is that everything that you are blaming this for is not based on any viable evidence either its just suspection.
Jiddufan 5 months ago
And "venusprojection" How can you say that property rights and laws are helping people to avoid negative things that "protect" people from such abuses when all this is just happening MORE AND MORE OFTEN? How do you explain that they are PROTECTING? Law on a paper or Property rights MEANS NOTHING. To the people who rule our "Economy" You have to rid of the idealogy of ownership and accept the fact that people need ACCES not ownership you are just primitive and not trying to understand whats good.
Jiddufan 5 months ago
@Jiddufan "you are just primitive and not trying to understand whats good."
That's funny. I used to believe all the zeitgeist / venus project propaganda too for about 2 years until I finally realized it's all a bunch of bs. I support your right to believe whatever it is you want to believe even if it is incredibly stupid, naive and not based in reality.
venusprojection 5 months ago
And what the hell are people talking about bible and shit in here? Since when has religions had anything to do with practical things in this world? Just pointless belief and slaving others.
Jiddufan 5 months ago
What is the bad in all this? if it means that some of my body parts could be replaced by technology and would give me the possibility to live for thousands of years! That would be freaking awesome! why would every1 be scared of this?? And why would a computer program itself to compete with something if its programmed to program only things that improve colloboration? there is no such thing as computer competeing with something if its not programmed so.... You watch too much movies.
Jiddufan 5 months ago
@Jiddufan Oh here we go with the "you watch too much movies" line that all brainwashed zeitgeisters use. My argument is based upon science not movies. Do your own research instead of just parroting the stuff you are told by people with their own biased agendas. Research Runaway AI and the Singularity. Jacque Fresco's website recommends a book called "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil and you can get a better understanding of my concerns by reading that book.
venusprojection 5 months ago
Venus Project IS Skynet!!!!
Cryptnox 5 months ago
Aren't you more interested in HOW the machines will make decisions?
Watchdawg 5 months ago
A resource economy makes sense to me. The problems continue to grow, and more people are suffering from this corrupt, manipulated monetary system which is collapsing all around us. But I fear that the suffering will have to get worse before they say, We're ready to try a system where our advanced technology could make it possible for us to work together instead of fighting each other. Who knows? I AM enjoying watching this destructive, outdated system collapse, though. Can't happen soon enough.
dvmovie 5 months ago
@dvmovie You enjoy watching the system collapse while people are suffering.... Nice to know what kind of human being you are. How many videos are you trolling this message on?
justintempler 5 months ago
@justintempler -- I'm enjoying watching the system collapse so we can hurry up and END THE SUFFERING! The longer this corrupt system endures, the longer the people are trapped in debt-slavery, and sent off to suffer and die in wars for corporate profits. Billions to be made from bombing. When people are forced to fight and take from each other, this is what we get. It's so sick! We have to bring this system down... now!
dvmovie 5 months ago
@dvmovie If the system collapses it isn't going to end your suffering Steve, it'll make it worse. You've had a spoiled life living in the West, you don't even know what true suffering is. If the system collapses it'll be dog eat dog and your "debt slaves" as you so much like to call them, will be the ones that suffer the most.
justintempler 5 months ago
@justintempler -Or so you think.
dvmovie 5 months ago
@dvmovie Between your video editing skills and your guitar playing how come we didn't see helping out at the Media Festival? Those video previews from the festival look like crap, I guess they didn't have the benefit of your expertise.
justintempler 5 months ago
@dvmovie LOL You normally go around posting this same crap everywhere? Trolling failed. LMAO Nice try old man.
777Carmine777 5 months ago
Ps why the scary music
BEATS144 5 months ago
@BEATS144 Artistic expression.
venusprojection 5 months ago
I'm received your reply. Thank you. I am not trying to come across as a person who comes from a negative place as that is not me. I feel that the only way out of this living he'll as I see it is through positive energy. As for the singularity and the concept of ai. These are all born of human invention therefor if the safety precautions are not put in place by the programmer then humanity deserves all it gets. I have watched almost everything there is to watch and over a wide spectrum of subjec
BEATS144 5 months ago
This old guy is trying to bring something new to the world. Some answers and some hope. You bring some snippets off shit from his book. You are a legend. I hope the world listens to you, because you sound like a very clever person. Arse 'o'
BEATS144 5 months ago
@BEATS144 I've read the book. I used to be a supporter. Think of me what you will but I'm just trying to give people information and get them to think a little. I recommend learning about the Singularity and Runaway AI for a better understanding. Fresco's website recommends "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil. Peace.
venusprojection 5 months ago
I am not part of the movement, however the comments made really do not hurt the TZM or Venus Project. . With out supporting or harping on either side. What do you think should be done. What do you think about our current situation as a whole. Do you really believe this is as good as it gets? Do you really believe that we are the peak of evolution.
Hatchetryder84 6 months ago
@Hatchetryder84 I don't think the world should be micromanaged by any particular group be it either a corporate or government entity. I support liberty and limited government, free markets and sound money rather than fiat currency or no currency at all. The Gov should have the responsibility to protect life and keep us free. Is this as good as it gets? Of course not. We are heading in the wrong direction and moving more towards centralized economic planning and the loss of personal liberty.
venusprojection 6 months ago
@Hatchetryder84 Do I really believe that we are the peak of evolution? As of right now from what I can see we are. I don't consider man-made technology suprassing us in intelligence and then assimilating the human race the evolution of man. I see it more like the evolution of the machine and the end of the human race. I am all for the continuation of natural biological evolution of the human race and don't think scientists should be in charge of designing the species.
venusprojection 6 months ago
@Hatchetryder84 Finally, I think the creation of super intelligent machines is something that should be avoided due to the massive danger it could potentially pose to the world and the future of our species. Therefore, even though I am a libertarian, I do think that certain technology and research should be banned in the US at least since it poses such a threat or spiraling out of control. Biological weapons and weapons of mass destruction would also fall into this category.
venusprojection 6 months ago