.50 Cal Black Powder rifle at 420 yards Traditions Tracker 209

[backwoodsboy1121]

Nice shooting, but I'm srry to say I shoot traditional, cool video though, it's neat to experiment with different grain rounds and powder charges, I've don't it with patch and round all loads. Always good to know your gun in and out

[sierrasport16v]

Very impressive, I don't think I can see 420 yards!!!! I have orderd one of these (but with nickle coating) Have you tried Minie's in it? if so what was it like? I have got a LEE 500-360-M Improved Minie mold but I havn't got round to casting any yet, hopefully at the weekend.

[gamerfan81]

What you do to protect your scope? I got the same gun

[spystyle]

Very scientific and challenging :)

[aldiesel27]

Where did you get the bipod for the muzzleloader?

[AFWoodFloors]

Have you shot any lead out of the gun such as conicals? I have a LEE mold for the R.E.A.L bullet (rifling engraved at loading) and would love to shoot accurately at around 200 yards.

[laminater5555]

Im thinking about buying a muzzle loader but was wondering how accurate they are at 100 yards...

[Ghstwn]

Very interesting and well documented results. An intensely anal process I must say,.. ( I'm have other interests also.) But indeed well researched. Thank you.

[masterchrisx3]

good chance you wont respond but

i just got one of these used with no manual

is it possible for you to photocopy it or give me good instructions on firing this gun

[lookingforthemeaning]

what type of breech does this rifle have?

is it locking or ?

[joseph299]

@lookingforthemeaning Yes, it locks back

[lookingforthemeaning]

@joseph299 locks back?

could you explain how you load and lock ;-)

i have a gallegher reproduction with rear loading (imagine this is completly different.)

[joseph299]

@lookingforthemeaning Its got a bolt, a straight pull bolt, when you pull it back all the way (about an inch and a half) until it locks and there is a nipple for the #209 primer, the bolt stays in the rear position until the trigger is pulled.. Idk if that makes much sense haha I am extremely tired writing this

[lookingforthemeaning]

@joseph299 i guess the rifle is a muzzelloader blackpowder rifle.

and the bolt is at the same time the firing pin/hammer.

i thought it was a rear loading blackpowderrifle :-/  ;-)

thanks alot :-)

[joseph299]

@lookingforthemeaning Yeah its a muzzleloader. The bolt is the firing pin/hammer

[scooter33333]

Mag as fellow black powder shooter i know this is possible. just havent had the time to do it. As for the other idiot. Well if he doesnt know black then he should just shut up. Check out thr.org black powder section my user is scrat

[gravedigr12]

i think i have seen this one at cabelas

[chrispymuffin]

nice i almost bought one but got a deal on a Knight Muzzle Loader for 100 bucks....and where did u find somthing to measure foot pounds cuz i have to see how many foot pounds my uncles M82A3 generates....

[theycallmenica]

Very cool video, been shooting my CVA in windy conditions with sabot and .44 ball, 3" group with 20 mph cross wind, steel sights, going to try to move to 200 yards. You have inspired me to seek more distance.

[coldpak82]

Any time you fire your blackpowder rifle,if you notice the barrel gets hot.Are you to reload the barrel rightaway or do you wait until it cools off? I would want the the blackpowder to ignite while reloading,i've never tried out my new gun just like your's.

[twostrokeornill1]

@coldpak82 I've never had it happen to me. But if it does, its commonly refered as a "cookoff". Believe it or not, its not really a big deal if the powder burns as you are pouring it in. Uncompressed powder burns rather uneventful. Fizz and Smoke only. I guess it could burn your fingers though. And Never pour in powder with muzzle near your face, of course.

[EB7BNW]

Realmente impresionante, como se puede hacer buen tiro, con una inversion pequeña.

Saludos desde España.

[jacksbark]

Great video - Ty for making the effort. I bought the last two 45 cal 209 Trackers at a gun shop here at Seattle in the summer and while I don't have 400+ yards for a range, at 100 yards they both do 1.5"-3" with all manner of bullets/sabots/balls with hardly any effort. Paid $125 apiece with scopes, new .... a real bargain I reckon.

[mnpd007]

"So what charge are you using to get balls to work in fast twists?"

With the .490 roundball and .010 cloth patch, the accuracy holds up to 100 grains of Triple 7 powder. I dropped the charge to 90 grains and left it there for roundballs.

You won't be shooting 420 yards with the roundball out of the Tracker, but I have 2 of them, and both handle roundballs very well.

[mnpd007]

Mag30th, may I ask what optics you are using on that Tracker?

[mag30th]

Yes, and sorry for the delay, in this clip Im using a Leupold 3-9 compact.

[mnpd007]

@mag30th

Excellent choice of scope. I have one on a sporterized Mauser. The thing never loses zero, and when adjusting the scope for range and windage it will always go back to zero when returned. Few things get your money's worth like a good rifle scope.

[mnpd007]

That is a most remarkable thing that you have done with a 90-yard rifle!!

For those curious, the bullets are NOT striking low as it appears from the dirt signature. The bullet is dropping considerably from the horizontal, and richochets downward into the dirt after striking the plate squarely.

I'm not real video savvy, but I should post my 500 yard metal plate range my friend and I use for .22 rimfire. Through the scope, the bullet is visible, and appears to be falling vertically. :)

[mnpd007]

If you forget to load the powder in a sidelock, you better have a bullet puller. With the Tracker, the 209 shotgun primer alone will propel the bullet 75-100 yards! So, if you forget the powder, just shoot the bullet out with the primer.

You also don't have to worry about hangfires with the shotgun primers.

[mnpd007]

Jesus! You're doing 129g of 3f pistol powder in the rifle? No wonder it kicks like a mule!

I have two of the Trackers, and surprised at their accuracy. With a tight 1:28 twist, long heavy bullets are mandatory for accuracy. A 320 maxiball is as light at the thing will shot, better yet a 300 gr. Hornaday XTP .45 sabot.

But, I only use 80 grains of 2f Triple-7 powder.

Here's the real surprise... despite the 1:28 twist, mine will shoot round balls accurately

[mannexx111]

by the high pitched crack of that rifle there must be some modern smokeless powder in that load.plain black powder would never get you there without a ten ft drop.

[mag30th]

The high-pitched crack is due to the projectile traveling over the 1,150 FPS mark, this sabot is traveling at 1660 FPS. Secondly there is not any smokeless powder in this, it is 100% FF Goex black powder. And lastly, the bullet drop 16 feet at 420 yards.

[mnpd007]

@mag30th

I wouldn't pay that guy any attention. He sent me a personal message telling me how completely ignorant and stupid I was when I mentioned that the rifle's bolt doesn't lock. Apparently he's never seen the bolt on a Tracker which closes with simple spring tension and no locking. Now he's accusing you of pulling this off by being stupid and ignorant by putting smokeless powder in a smokepole rifle.

[Grasshopper257]

@mag30th With this set up, at that distance is there still enough ft lbs of energy to effectively take out deer sized game?

[joseph299]

@Grasshopper257 I own the rifle in this video now, and yes you can take a deer out with it at 420 yards using a 300gr projectile

[mnpd007]

The breech on that rifle doesn't lock... there's just spring tension holding it closed. The pressure peak and curve of modern powder would have opened that gun up like a ripe melon if present in sufficient quantities to achieve the velocity you are suggesting. :)

[mnpd007]

mannexx111 just sent me this jewel in my inbox. Mag30th, can you tell him that the Tracker ISN'T a bolt-action, that the bolt DOESN'T LOCK, that the rifle only has a non-locking slide-bolt that rests against the primer, that is free to move rearward with excessive pressure?

"anyone so fucking stupid to say that a bolt action dosent lock closed dosent deserve any of my time other than to say you are gone for good go spread your inbred stupidity somewhere else....."

[mnpd007]

Where did you go, Cowboy? Still have some "stupidly inbred" education for you about how the slidebolt on an inline Tracker no more locks with the breech than a sidelock hammer locks with the nipple.

[mnpd007]

Given your limited knowledge of firearms, I don't think I'd post here. Any firearms expert can tell you that you can't detect "some smokeless power in that" just because of the crack.

BTW, did you ever figure out that this rifle's bolt down lock? You seemed so certain that got a nem-calling flame in my message box, and now you've dropped off. I own two of the Trackers as does this gentleman, and the slidebolts do NOT lock. The bolt simply uses spring tension to rest against the primer.

[jcoon3]

how much powder did you use? and how much bullet drop at that range?

[redsalute3]

i use pyrodex pellets and powerbuilt sabots in my inline.

[lankeeyankee]

This was my first inline gun also. Bought it at Walmart with the scope mounted. Purchased Pyrodex pellets and used power belt bullets.

I used the gun for 4 years and killed a deer every yr with it. Great Gun and priced cheap

[flmason]

Last questions for anyone who knows... Do these require plastic jackets for the primers? And... how water tight is the breach?

[Baal616]

No. You just insert a bare 209 straight into the hole in the breach plug.

[flmason]

Are plastic jackets for the primer required with this rifle?

[flmason]

Is there an acceptable non-sabot load for these that's accurate?

The rate of twist is to fast for patched ball (or so I read) and sabots are a manufactured item that I couldn't reproduce at home, so just curious if a minie or other non-sabot projectile can be used effectively?

(Can really cast solid copper bullets at home either.)

[gunsofthunder26]

Me and my family just use balls. and I am just as acurate at 300 yards without a scope.

[mnpd007]

flmason... you can use the HEAVY TC Maxiballs. I forget all the weights, but the 370gr is good, and I could get as low as 320gr before the accuracy came apart.

It's really a sabot gun, since the .45 caliber sabot bullets have a higher BC and will stablize with the Tracker's tight twist.

Oddly, both of my Trackers perform very will with round balls despite the tight twist!! I use .490 balls with a .010" thick lubricated patch.

[flmason]

Wow, the round balls really work? I wasn't expecting that. I finally bought a Traditions Yukon.

(Though I am wondering whether the drop breach design could let hot gasses get down into the trigger area if there's blowby. Haven't had it out to the range yet.)

So what powder loading are you using with round balls?

[mnpd007]

Yes the round balls do work in the Tracker. They shouldn't work according to "doctrine", which says that round balls need a 1:66" twist. But, doctrine also says that sabots must be dry, and that any oil will cause the plastic to jump the lands!... something that Mag30th has just disproven in his video here.

[mnpd007]

I used to use black powder, then Pyrodex, then all sorts of non-corrosive substitutes... some worked, some didn't, and none would work well in a pistol.

Then I found my savior! This is the best piece of advice I can give you......Hogdon Triple 7 black powder substitute. Non-corrosive, and every bit as powerful as black powder, even in my pistols!!

Remember... Hogden 777! 2f for rifles, 3f for pistols.

[flmason]

Hmm... many years ago I never had any trouble with Pyrodex P in a '61 Navy Colt repro. So I've always favored it.

At the moment I have some 777 I haven't tried yet. It is hotter than Pyrodex or Black by 10 to 15%. Was thinking that was a good thing, except that you have to reduce max loads, so even Hodgdon's data shows higher velocity in pistols from the Pyrodex.

So what charge are you using to get balls to work in fast twists?

[mag30th]

Have you tried the "Select" powder? So far it is the best Ive used.

[mnpd007]

@mag30th

Never have tried Select. But, being you mentioned it, I'll grab a pound next time I go by the store.

[twostrokeornill1]

@mnpd007- I agree 100% . Triple 7 is the overall best sub that I've tried. One major problem though. When Using it with a patch and ball set-up, it burns up the patch before the ball leaves the barrel. The destroyed patch smouldering on the ground tells the story. And I'm only using a 50 grain charge of 2f, with lubed patches .015".

[HunterTom3006]

Man that looks like a real cool place to shot. I wish i had 400+ yard gun range in the back yard. Nice shooting also!

[Baal616]

In working up this load, did you test this sans the lubed wad? Fadala recomends putting a bit of lube on the base of the sabot but not on the sides.

[mag30th]

Yes, I found that keeping off the sides was important. I don't understand your first question though.

[Baal616]

The first part. It just seems to me that treating of the sabot with the walnut material would be all that you would need to do and that the wad inside the sabot would be blasting too much lube everywhere when the load is accelerating up the bore. I haven't tried it yet myself. I've only fired light payloads out of my Tracker. Been running patched ball with only 30grns of Pyro.

[hooah002]

i bet i can beat ya with an old muzzleloader

[mag30th]

I love competition and I love muzzleloaders!!!!

Heres my muzzleloader, Youtube 650 yards, open-sights, .58 Cal muzzle-loader, Civil war 1861 Springfield watch?v=ejxByA-siSs

[chaharly2]

no, the nipple was plugged with what i think is frost, mixed with gunk

[chaharly2]

I own one of these, and we were out just an hour ago, and saw a buck

pulled the triggert

and the fucking thing didnt go off

so then we put another cap off and shot at a tree

the thing still didn't go off

[mag30th]

It is broken.

[Nicholai420]

I ordered one of these but they were sold out of the version with the scope. Can anyone tell me where I can buy the scope that fits on this?

[kossspeakers]

I like the idea about using the lubed wads inside the sabot. Got to try that! Thanks.

[whitetailbuckeye]

What type of scope do you have mounted on your Traditions?

[clayburn001]

i recently won this gun for a 20 dollar ticket at a bachler party wasnt sure how great the gun would be. after i seen you can buy them new for 150.00. Well i just got back from the range after siting it in and i love it. This is a very accurate gun i am shooting pyrodex pellets and 295gr powerbelt sabots and am dead on at 100 yrds. Am using mine for dear hunting and dont get many shots over 100yds here in michigan. Will let you know how well i like it after i get my deer. great vid

[mag30th]

Thanks! They shoot GREAT with sabots! I had terrible luck with all other types of projectiles, but sabots were a perfect match through this rifle!

[yellowchthonic]

i always thought the idea was a recreation of traditional shooting.

At my Australian shooting club we have guys that use the big remington rolling blocks etc with great accuracy,and a fair few that use muzzle loaders. This represents 8moa (minutes of accuracy). With your set up you should be looking at at most a 12 inch square which is 3 moa. What can you do with open sights, lead and cloth patches? In the civil war the best rifles could shoot under 2moa easily.

G.Day from Australia.

[mag30th]

1 of 3 Thanks! This is a fast twist barrel, so I only stick with the Sabots in this rifle. I also shoot a Kentucky flintlock and a Kentucky percussion rifle (open sights) at this same 420 yard plate. The flintlock is a slow twist and Im using conical, and hitting the same plate with regularity and same with the Percussion, although that rifle has a medium twist rate and Im using sabots.

[mag30th]

2 of 3The percussion video is posted here. I dont have a video of the flintlock at 420 yards but it is in the works.

In the US Civil war they were shooting the .58 caliber Minié balls, I own a Zouave (the Zouaves were never issued) and can reach this same plate 5 for 5 with the Minié balls. But the barrel has to be thoroughly brushed between shots.

[mag30th]

3 of 3 I prefer shooting with open sights over using a scope, it is a fantastic sport/hobby/passion and it is great hearing from others who are passionate about the same.

Thanks again, Ernest.

[10ring]

Damn, those are some of the best vapor trails I've seen captured on tape.

[Baal616]

Fantastic.

[billson556]

nice, and informative, could U use an AR-15 at 420 or 600+ yards? I really want to do some long-range shooting with my M-16 style rifle, but here in Indiana the most range I can get is around 200 yards :(

[mag30th]

Thanks! My clip of the AR-15 is also posted here, titled, "Colt AR-15, open sights, at 650 yards."

[billson556]

oh, lol thanks, sorry about the stupidity, shoulda searched first, haha

[jubbles2343]

is great to see old styles of shooting re-emerging in modern ways

[jubbles2343]

ing being re-vamped

[vmpslr2]

a very long shot with bp,very informative video about your planning,as with anything practice makes perfect an your really getting it down to a science,cool video,5star

[hot318]

i have never seen anything like that over here (yet)

looks fun, makes me wanna take out dad's .58cal "remmi zouave".

i will have to investigate the availibity of this gem over here.

my wife dont like me wacthing youtube cause evry time i do i add another rifle to my "wish list"

again another great vid +++

[Obelisk2290]

PING!!!!!! The sound of victory