Whats' TYT? A TV program about a TV program...Worse yet, commentary about commentary on other programs. Sometimes I'm ashamed of this country..."So in case you missed it, this was really poignant!" Oh Gawd...
Don't know that Powell in necessarily culpable just by virtue of being in the room. He wasn't the top dog. He could have done himself better though by adding to his statement that he "didn't know they were criminal" by also saying he didn't know they were legitimate. It's right though, or at least I believe so, that he would have been the least guilty of anyone in the Bush administration, and he found the door before the President's second term.
The congress also had oversight over the cia and intigence community.
Recall, Pelosi being embarrased last year, because she was pointing fingers but it became clear that she knew. She had oversight and supena power as a committee chair over the cia.
9. And before they left power, the Bush Admin rushed through legislation to ensure they could not be bought to account.
Unless they are held accountable it will be a sad chapter for America. The moral ideals and values that it touted on the world stage that lended much to its power, particularly in the Western world, and those values have now been corrupted.
@charlesvan13 You can find lots on you tube about it. I recall a BBC Doco called "Power of Nightmares" which tells the story well. The legislation prohibted the processecution of any member of the executive branch for actions carried out during times of war. During a state of war, Cheney believed the president did not have to account to the congress and had total executive power.
I am not sure how the legislation went through unopposed, but no body is denying that it happened.
1. Colation of the willing went into Iraq looking for WMD's and terrorists and found non.
2. That was OK because we toppled an "Evil Dictator" that killed 5000 of his own people with gas
3. We then made his own people prosecute him for torture as we had done to countless other leaders that got carried away with power during times of war.
3. In doing so we killed tens of thousands of his people and thousands of our own.
The job of our elected officials is not to defend the nation, it is a sworn oath to defend the constitution of this nation, protecting and preserving the rights and freedom that we enjoy under its infinite wisdom. You can protect someone by putting them in a cell and not allowing any harm to come to them, but its not freedom. What Bush and Cheney did was to usurp power and turn our country into a dictatorship, dangerous ground when you decide to burn the constitution, for all...
Let me clarify: The question isn't what would you do to get a bona fide terrorist to talk, it's what wouldn't you do to to get a bona fide terrorist to talk.
I'm not worried about our image or treating terrorists with respect. The right thing is to get them to talk and save American lives. Period.
MpRicep: How arrogant of you to come out on a World Wide forum and say "all you care about is American lives. Period." You are a good example of what is wrong with America today. Do you think you are doing your country a favour by saying this or do you really believe American lives are more valuable than Iraqi or Arab lives?
Hey buddy maybe you missed the giant US flag in the intro and the interview with US Secretary of State Colin Powell about American policies for interrogating terrorists who've attacked the US. I do not know what you are talking about or if you understand English. Maybe a friend can interpret this for you. Who said Iraqi or Arabs? I said terrorists. Terrorists are not just Arab or just Muslim. That's ignorant of you to think that. Terrorists are from all over ie: Yemen, Chechnyan, China, etc.
mrprichep, what % of those interrogated do you believe attacked the United States? And if you dont think the more modern terror events were Islamic inspired, why dont you recount them starting with 911, then the bombing in Spain, lets see, Muslims. London Bombings, lets see...Hmmm Islam, Bali, yep you guessed it Islam. The US Military Major who shot 32 marines...Muslim.
Last I heard Yemen was Islamic and Arabic and please point me to a Chinese terrorist.
It is more arrogant to stick your nose into a discussion involving the United States and lecture us about what is wrong with us. You don't see me going to a discussion about your country and misconstruing what you are saying because I don't fully understand of the issues do you?
You got to be kidding me...The US does not go into other countries and meddle in their business? Is that what your saying? Or do you mean you specifically? If you think when the US sneezes we dont get a cold, your living a cocoon. We have troops in Iraq because you do. We have a sub prime crissis because you do. and yes I do understand the issues, I make a point of it.
It's not right to come back and play Monday morning quarterback for what happened almost 8 years ago. We were attacked, we were angry, and determined to never let it happen again. We gave a few people the job to protect a nation and that's exactly what they did. The question isn't what would you do, it's what would you NOT do to protect this nation.
@mprichep Ahhhh please explain to me exactly how invading Iraq made your nation safer? Infact how not invading them would have threatened your safety?
If anything DevilDog's comments show the mentality that has been pervasive in the military-industrial complex the past 10 years... kill'em all, and let God sort em out.
It's a good thing that soldiers only act on orders, because obviously left of their own accord, they'll act even worse than those we're trying to apprehend and destroy.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for using force (even deadly) when necessary, but the "better kill them before they kill you" mentality is a crock of bullshit.
It's good soldiers only act on orders?? They act on orders from other soldier. We call them officers. People like you can't be soldiers because you'd be too busy shitting your pants to follow any of those orders that would save your life and the life of your fellow soldiers. Maybe you shouldn't get your info from Rambo and Hollywood. What you said is insulting to soldiers everywhere. They fight for your freedom and u use that to stereotype them. You are extremely misinformed !
"get him in alot of trouble" No he is cuddled up with the belt way liberal crowd. But do you think we should only ask prisoners pretty please? wtf! The torcher issue needs to go away befor some one figures out Obama has to approve the same thing!
This is why I love liberals. No logic, no brains, only biased bs. The waterboarding of terrorists is about 1,000,000th on the list of priorities as far as things the US DOES that are wrong. Six weeks ago we KILLED (not tortured) 40 INNOCENT Afghani's. Iran murders a protesting women in the middle of Tehran. Where the fuck was this turkey and Maddow then? They only give a shit about suffering if theres a repubulican to pin it on, otherwise forget it. Terrorists have a friend with these two!
Look, the logic is... US torturing is just wrong in so many differentways and yes ur right, there are worst things. but ur examples are frivolous. 40 innocent afghani's hmm 1) us (the us public) dont know the real story ... thats happening in a war torn fucking country so its hard to have facts on that. 2) 1 murdered Iranian women.. and u wanna go to war? talk about no brains!!! Thats Irans prob... nothing to do w/ the us. u want atrocities go to Africa you FUCK... but no u wont hear that either
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I was in the Marines for the past ten years dip shit and I can tell you that innocent people get killed or mamed far more frequently than your beloved terrorists that were water boarded 10^6:1. Four months ago police shot and killed an innocent man on a train, where's Obama and your fuckin "logical" cronies? Far worse things than making terrorists drink a little water happens every fuckin day right here while you faggots sit, bitch and wien about what the Bush admin. did to keep you all safe.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
If someone held a gun to one of your family members and you were behind them with a bat and you knew they'd pull the trigger given the chance, would you still be a liberal and ask them to put it down nicely or would you do something far worse than waterboard them and hit them over the head with a bat? To me and 99% of the people fighting for our country , that "DO" in stead of "talk" you sound like a bunch of fuckin idiotic nazi appeasers. I wish I could just ship you stupid fucks off to 1943.
@wildboy789789 it is not a question of the system, or of the political spectrum: right or left! it is more a question of right or wrong...! it is what made the difference between the bad guys and the good guys..
@log140 well look at the group who support "the troops" while they support people who torture... the ignorance is in the right wing religious and the mainstream of both parties... only 3rd rail parties have good solutions but democrats are much more humane than republicans
@wildboy789789 when you choose between 2 evils:-) you are right: democrats are less evil!
when you look at this political situation in detail, you will notice they both contribute to the "divide and conquer" principle! the democrats fight against the republicans and the the other way around, while the elite remains untouched...
Sleep deprivation, while not creating acute pain, can and has caused brain damage and lasting mental illness. Just because there are no screams doesn't mean it's NOT torture, 1iedJack. U don't know what torture is, either.
I'll take sleep deprivation and stress positions over getting my fingernails torn out or having a cattle prod shoved up my ass anyday. You people don't know what torture really is.
exactly... and thats why we should feel comfortable enough to know we live in a country that doesn't do that. Why stoop down the a dogs level to teach it a lesson??
You know what we did when the Nazi's conquered most of Western Europe dip shit? We STOOPED down to there level and started killing every fuckin Nazi we could. One day a select few of you dumb shit utopian dreaming bastards will wake the fuck up and realize that there are still Hitlers out their that dont have a big ass swastika tatooed on thier fuckin heads for you to recognize. Terrorits will kill military and civilians, even their own. Wake. The. Fuck. Up.
dude you got so many disconnects in your logic and factoids that you could make a light bulb spark in ur head. you got skype or something and we kan debate this out sensibly?? just msg me. i'd love to hear where u comin from. i've served to and as a marine you should know how horrible torture is... u remember vietnam? ask john mccain... lets just do that everybody if they dont agree w/ how we think.. again just msg me ur skype and we kan chat... make up a name i dont care
I'm proud of Colin Powell for going on MSNBC, an adverserial program, to explain torture. To my knowledge, he is the only high level person to go on on MSNBC to take such a question, or he could be a chicken-shit and go on Fox to explain it. I admire Colin Powell even if he has a small part to do with everything, he's a human trying to explain how the US came to torture people.
I think that it's his conscience, his office, that will uncover the truth in what ever for it exists.
Babylon the great is the United States of America!
Rev 18 and Jer:51 with Isaiah30:25 and Isaiah9:8-10
Isaiah (9:8-19) is the exact description of our rebuilding the freedom twin towers Just b4 total destruction as it happened in ancient Israel,
They were defiant just as we are Americas end will be the same!
America will be completely destroyed soon! Within months as will the rest of the globe! because America will not turn around. As you read this you have had your last warning!
More than literature, I would suggest that you talk to the people who actually lived under Soviet rule; they more than any revisionist history professor can tell you, how much they appreciate what America and Reagan's policies aided in the eventual collapse of the Sovet Union. I know is difficult to accept that America is the "ONLY" and last beacon of freedom left in the world. As Reagan once said: "NO ARSENAL OF WEAPONS....IS SO FORMIDABLE AS THE WILL AND MORAL COURAGE OF FREE MEN AND WOMEN".
Why Reagan was great?. Well let's see lifting America from a terrible recesion that pres Carter caused with much of the same policies that Obama is using, setting the tone and foundation for the destruction of the evil USSR with the only strategy that works wich is "PEACE TROUGH STRENGTH" and in the process liberating millions of people from under Soviet domination, revitalizing the American brand all around the world among other things. To me that qualifies as a great president. About you?.
Can you quote your sources for me? I was under the impression the USSR was imploding for about 40 years. But if you some literature you might suggest I will entertain other ideas.
Did you retract your reply for a reason? You wrote this:
" I would suggest that you talk to the people who actually lived under Soviet rule; they more than any revisionist history professor can tell you, how much they appreciate what America and Reagan's policies aided in the eventual collapse of the Sovet Union. "
I call those people "neighbours". I guess you did not realise the internet is worldwide :)
This deification of Reagan is just pathetic. Carter lost because not long after he became president OPEC jammed the price of oil through the roof and it triggered economic recession and inflation, which of course, he got the blame for. Evenso, his budget deficits came nowhere near what Reagan ran up, which in turn, come no where near what Bush II ran up.
I would try and educate you in American politics BUT I have to agree with MeLikeGoFast ; being Canadian explains your ignorance ,picking on you would be like picking on a special needs person.
Good for you! Way to prove your point! Hmmmm, You didn't do that either! LOL, I guess there really are some special needs people in here, regurgitating (that means puking up) the same old nonsense over and over again.
I respect Powell's service to the nation, but he should stop trying to justify his mistakes by doing the liberal thing and blaming it all on Bush. More and more he sounds like a moron who was taken advantage of by the Bush administration, not the smart general he is supposed to be. 20 years from now what Bush and Cheney did will be regarded as a great leadership moment in American history. Remember you liberal fucks that is how long it took all of you to understand how great Reagan was.
Im curious why he is considered great. I know quite a lot about the history/politics of the period and never quite understood why Americans considered him so great. He seemed intelligent and entertaining, but realistically he achieved very little other than liberalization of the economic/financial system. And with hindsight that seems to have not gone very well.
When people say "great american president" I think Lincoln, Washington, maybe FDR. But why Reagan?
Why Reagan was great?. Well let's see lifting America from a terrible recesion that pres Carter caused with much of the same policies that Obama is using, setting the tone and foundation for the destruction of the evil USSR with the only strategy that works wich is "PEACE TROUGH STRENGTH" and in the process liberating millions of people from under Soviet domination, revitalizing the American brand all around the world among other things. To me that qualifies as a great president. About you?.
Powell seems to be acting senile. I was at some but don't remember what all was said. I don't know if those things were illegal, the man is a college graduate and has been in the military for decades but doesn't know these things? You cannot turn a blind eye when things like that are happening and a man with character would tell the truth...Powell evaded the truth and that to me speaks guilt or makes him as guilty. He wants to hide the truth, then he can swing from the gallows with the guilty.
We let this torture thing slide, we are truly and I mean truly fucked. It will be Americas defense attornies wet dream. If you have a brother or sister that is falsly accused of something and the cops used "enhanced interogation techniques", I hope your brother or sister does not think that they can go to court and prosecute the cops. All the cops have to say is shit, our government tortures, don't come after me. Some people can't think or see past their noses. Ridiculous!
You are right pingpong! cheney is in front of every camera in the US now and says there are memoes. I would bet a million right now that fucker destroyed them so now he can say that we have them but just won't release them. He was an evil fuck then and he is an evil fuck now. End of story!
That's a really fucking shitty thing to say. I am a US Citizen, and I have NEVER waterboared anyone. I have tortured anyone. Yet you want MY economy to fail and for me to suffer. How humanitarian is that?
dave777blaster is employed by the gun industry. Their objective is to spread treasonous talk such as this and get both sides buying weapons and score great profits from fear.
Yes you have... you are an American citizen so you water boarded people and funded the slaughter of over a million for the personal profit of a few sociopaths.
People are responsible for their governments actions... If our government spends trillions of dollars we have to pay it back... I can't say hey that's not fair.. I didn't spend the money. The system doesn't work that way.
Generally people have to sleep in the bed they made.
"Yes you have... you are an American citizen so you water boarded people and funded the slaughter of over a million for the personal profit of a few sociopaths."
The problem is I NEVER WATERBOARDED ANYONE and you can't prove any of the other claims. You're a fucking idiot!
In a Representative Democracy, people are elected to carry out the will of the people and that includes you.. Their actions are thus your actions. If they tortured you tortured.. If they water boarded people then you water boarded people.
If you hired a person to kill for you and they do, then guess what, you killed.
If you loan a person your car and they hit/damage/injure/kill someone, expect to be sued.
The law is the law. The law does not care about parties. The Attorney General must follow his job description, investigate and prosecute where crimes are found. The congress must follow it's job description and do the same. We must affirm to ouselves and show the rest of the world we are a nation of laws.
Nope. America DOES NOT TORTURE. Now matter what, we DO NOT commit human rights violations. That's why we are America. If you want to live in a country that is Ok with torture, you're basically saying have no moral principles.
It has been shown time and time again that torture does NOT gain good intelligence. People will lie their asses off to get it to stop. TORTURE DOES NOT WORK.
How about just interrogating them as usual and hoping you can break their resolve? I'd rather gain useful info the hard way than useless info through torture.
If America wanted to start a war against shape shifting reptiles we would "need to torture" because "people will lie their asses off to get it to stop". How else would we fight shape shifters other then torture?
Point being we launched a war against a subterranean army explained to have vast underground muti tiered bases with underground hydroelectric power plants, doors big enough to drive tanks threw, communications equipment to organize a global army of sleeper cells.
The detainees, no matter how reprehensible their politics, are still humans. And we, as Americans, still have to follow the law. It is agains the law to waterboard. This has been decided since at LEAST 1947. Reagan prosecuted Texas lawmen for THIS EXACT ACT and called it torture. Torture does not gain useful intelligence. Never has, never will.
This is a false choice, but to entertain your question I will answer. No. The law is the law. The law does not care about parties. The Attorney General must follow his job description, investigate and prosecute where crimes are found. The congress must follow it's job description and do the same. We must affirm to ouselves and show the rest of the world we are a nation of laws.
If someone is holding a gun to your family member's head and threatening to pull the trigger and you have a clear shot at them to kill them before they kill your family member, are you going to say "now wait a minute, we have laws and the law says not to murder so I better not take the shot. It is better to let my family member die."
This again is a false choice. Shotting someone who has a gun trained on anyone is not murder. Howerver, if I manage to get his gun away from him , I can't tie him up in my basement and torture him to see if he has accomplises. It appears to me that you, like most Republicans I debate on youtube, are suffering from limbic brain disorder, you live in a world of subjective reality, created by your Machiavellian masters. When confronted with the truth you you become even more irrational.
It is not irrational to make every effort possible to protect the American people. Somehow liberals have this idea that "if we are nice to the terrorists, they will like us and not attack us", this typically stems from an atheist point of view that says there is no God and therefor good and evil do not exist. I'm happy to tell you that there is good and evil in the world and to protect good you must pro-actively fight evil. I value human life, I wish interrogation wasn't needed but it is.
Wrong again, your still offering false choices based on fallicies. There is a difference between interrogation and torture. We prosecuted and executed Japenese soldiers for waterboarding and now it is ok? God does exsist, and there is certainly evil in this world. Good knows that fighting evil with evil only makes you the evil you pretend to be fighting. Your rationalization for breaking the laws of the United States and the international treaties that we have drafted and signed is evil vs evil.
Yes, it is irrational to attempt to secure complete safety. Such a thing does not exist. No one is saying "be nice to terrorists". We are saying that we have a standard of conduct to maintain and we should abide by our own laws and rules even in times of trouble.
Those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither.
That isn't the same as torturing someone for information. Killing someone who is an IMMEDIATE threat to the lives of others is just sensible and decent. Torture is disgraceful, useless and illegal.
As Americans, we should all be ashamed and apalled that our gov't stooped so low as to employ tactics that are not only against the Geneva Convention, but beneath human dignity.
Also, when we torture them we give them permission to torture us. And they don't waterboard.
That could be done outside of the law if such a situation arrose. Presidential pardons do exist. The nation is far stronger if it eliminates torture. Second of all your example is hindsight. We could waterboard everybody in Pakistan with that philosophical question.
Powell stated that he had misgivings about the evidence of Iraq aiding Al Qaeda, citing he was basing all this on a captured operative - who later recanted.
Regardless of what Powell told him, Bush stated it as fact. "Iraq has also provided Al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training."
It was CIA evidence that Bush practically told them to go find so he could justify invading Iraq.
But they didn't man...The fact is that torture caused us to follow thousands of false leads and waste millions of taxpayer dollars. CIA officials have admitted this. People will admit anything under torture, that is where it fails..
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Hello, I am your President O-Dumbass, I bring you "Dopes" some "Chains", just keep believing in my teleprompter, uhg- I mean, aah, ME. "Chains (of government) you can believe in"..Truly
There can be no bureacratic approval of torture. Its a road that leads to hell. No country that has had bureacratic approval of torture has not tortured their own citizens down the road. If an intelligence officer feels torture is necessary to stop the 'ticking bomb' he will do so and risk his freedom doing so. If he was justified then the President will allow it as necessary for extreme national security reasons.
Bush's desire for torture was simply his attempt to destroy the rule of law
why do people make a big deal about the fucking Geneva Convention? are they stupid? i say fuck the Gneva Convention. why is it fair for one side to follow those rules when the other side doesn't give two shits about it? do you really think if you get caught by the other side, they are gonna spare you because of some rules written god konws when, by god knows who? the US should just be upfront about it. you capture our soldiers and torture them, we torture your combatants.
Because at least the side that follows it can claim they are human beings and not barbaric savages. What's the point of trying to preserve humanity if we all simply act like depraved animals because the other side does? Someone has to stand up and be the change we wish to see in the world.
so you're saying then that it's just a game of who can claim to have the moral high ground right? well that does not produce intelligence in the battle field. in the battle front, the enemy only recognizes one thing, your weapon. i do understand that we have to be humane and preserve humanity. however, war is a game between soldiers, or at least in principle, when you're a soldier, you understand the stakes involved and you accept them for whatever they may be.
This is why we do not believe anything you guys have to say to us, because you have situational ethics. You have no problem with putting our asses in a sling if it furthers your agenda. Collateral damage. Colin Powell work his entire life with ethics and character just to learn that it was all put on the line to further a hidden agenda of the presidents, cheney, and rumsfield. That must have devastated him and the trust he had for all of them. You all can't be trusted and will sacrifice people.
it is more important to find the damn truth - journalism is not politics JOURNALISM is not POLITICS. Politics has posed as journalism - but finding the truth and reporting it is journalism. It is to bad when it is uncomfortable to hear but it is journalism and we need more of it.
Rachel was trying to be relevant, but came across as a dick. Colin Powell left the Bush Administration the moment he realized that he had been lied to and manipulated into going before congress(?) or the UN with the lies fed to him. This is why Colin Powell left politics. He realized that they had all lied to him. He is an ethical man, they knew this, and he could no longer trust them. What else had they lied to him about? He attended meetings with them unaware. Scary.
It was a matter of wether the president was doing the bidding of those who run the country from behind the scenes. Clinton ran afoul of these people. Bush was a good little puppy who did what he was told.
I would love to meet Colin Powell. I think he has more common sense then Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld combined. But he has disappointed me a bit. But hey, when you're Secretary of State under the most unpopular president. What r u going to do?
Maddow is a far left loon who actually had the nerve to say that terrorists were actually "compliant" with U.S officials before "torture." Are you kidding me? If they were compliant BEFORE "torture" they wouldnt be "tortured" in the first place!
BSNBC is so far into the left loon tank that all of their reporting is not done on the current economic crisis or the mistakes barack obama is making, rather, all their time is focusing on supportin SPAIN in indicting bush and his officials. pathetic
I'm not lucy (whoever the hell that is) but I'll explain it to you anyway. First of all, torture as a interrogation technique doesn't work. People will say anything to stop someone waterboarding them. Second, it's illegal by the Geneva Convention and by our own constitution. Third, terrorists can use torture as a recruiting point and make people hate america even more. They may deserve it, but it doesn't help with anything.
I'd really like to know how this worthless dyke ever gets any guests. totally stupid. it's like asking if u'd like to be interviewed by Bugs Bunny. it's not journalism or news
hey pulsar--pull your head out of your ass. solid question, evasive answer. if you're gonna crack on anybody in this scenario, start with powell. you strike me as a homo-hating deep republican values kind of guy (Cheney comes to mind), but if you are basing your comments on this particular clip, wake up.
i agree with you GeeYouAreYou0001. all those republican animals like pig George Bush are down now. as Americans, we will never ever again pick them up. one day we will see them on court for war felony. we will see them soon.
What does it say about Obama, that NOW he doesn't want to look back at Bush's crimes, we need to move forward? These guys are all the same. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can get our country back.
Cause our media is screwed beyond repair :/ I loved Keith and Rachel when Bush was in power because they spoke the truth. Now they are the Dems version of fox news. Blind allegiance to their party's leader. If she is going to ask Powell a questions, she needs to insist on a real answer!!
i have read so many scary stories about innocent people being locked in Guantanamo, just to get released several years later, since they were innocent. Even a guy from my own country sweden, for several years, just released, put through hell with no explanation or excuse. Its fucking awful. You stupid americans can torture your own people all you like but get your hands off the rest of the world.
PS: IF its against the geneve convention, its illegal.
Hey Swedish dude, I don't want you to think that Americans actually approve of the outragious torture techniques that were practiced at Guantanamo. The only people who really approve of Gitmo are the Bush cronies, and they're out of power now. The American public has widespread outrage concerining the torture of innocents. It was an ineffective interrogation method that produced false evidence and delt a major blow to America's standing in the world and Americans are staunchly against it.
But it seems that we(Americans) don't care too much. Obama wants to take the closing of G-Bay slow, but tell that to the people locked up there for no reason. Charge these people with SOMETHING within a month and put them on trial or let them, go. Its very very simple.
I think closing Gitmo in a year is relitively quick. You have to try everybody in court, find out if they're quilty, release thoughs who are innocent, find out where we put all the guilty ones, find countries that will accept the terrorists that we can't hold, and do something about the prison itself. Once you take that into consideration, plus all the lawsuits that will probabley come out of this, you begin to wonder if 1 year is enough time.
I agree that we have to try everybody in court, but it doesn't have to be a secret military court, and they don't have to be housed at gitmo. Transfer all of them to maximum security prisons in the US and shut gitmo down. Your comment about "countries to accept terrorists we can't hold" makes no sense to me. If they ARE terrorst then why cant we hold them? If we CAN'T hold them, we likely have little to no evidence of them being terrorists. Gitmo is a disgrace, it can't be close quick enough.
It's a complicated situation. You're right in saying that we don't have to try everyone in military courts, but our prison system is filled to the brim and many high security prisons just can't hold the 600 or so terrorists coming from Gitmo. Plus, many of these people are wanted by countries other than the U.S., so it only makes sense for us to hand some of these prisoners over to other countries.
The Bush government made the case that Al Qaeda shouldn't be covered under the Geneva Convention rules as it is not a State but rather an organization. So basically under Bush's thinking he could take ANYONE, throw them in Gitmo, torture the **** out of them and then defend his action by saying "Meh....we thought he was Al Qaeda."
Agreed, the international agreements are set up to establish laws governing humans, not 'governments', arguing that they aren't part of a country is semantics. I think Powell is a straight up guy, but they should all be tried. Or just send them to gitmo, after all they said it's humane.
TYT are soooooooo douchey. Sleep deprivation and stress positions were and are perfectly legal and effective interrogation tools, and many US soldiers endure much worse during routine training. The fact that this is even an issue is laughable to an ex-soldier like me. Civilian carebears like Maddow are only betraying their ignorance of how interrogations and military operations are effectively carried out. But by all means, keep injecting your uninformed input where it doesn't belong.
It's a slippery slope though. If you start saying that waterboarding isn't torture then what next? How far do you want to go to extract information from people? If you start saying that it's okay to dismember people to get information that saves lives then your legitimizing torture against your own citizens. And do you really believe these interrogation methods produced any benefit?
If you're a terrorist asshole, you deserve everything you get. If you kill my countrymen, I would be happy to administer a "terrorist implant" in whatever caliber you choose.
if only we could tell the difference between a terrorist and an innocent bystander with a 100 percent clarity. if that ideal was the case, i would be with you. as it stands, you are a 100 percent wrong.
Why Colin Powell stands up for Cheney and Bush is neyond me. They threw him under the bus, and he doesnt fight back. Its a sorry thing to see him have to hedge.
u must read this. once u have started there is no turning back. a little 10 year old girl was raped and murderded in 1945. her body was not found until 1947. then a boy last week read this and did not copy and paste this message. the dead girl appeared in his room haunting him and killed him. if you do not copy and paste this onto 10 vidoes in 30 minutes the dead girl will apear in your room tonight and haunt you and kill you. well you better start to copy and paste to be saved Did this lol
Least guilty? He did not stop what he would have known to be illegal......... EQUALLY guilty is more like it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. It WOULD be that way for you and I, right? Accessory to the fact ring a bell? Ding, Ding.
HE NEVER EVEN ANSWERS THE QUESTIONS!! How is this a good job? He states he cant comment on ALL the meetings because he wasn't at some of them. Wouldn't the next move for a REAL journalist be to pin him down on an answer about the meetings he WAS at? Your thoughts please...
So if there are transcripts, who has them now and why can't we get them released now? We should make them available to the Spanish courts ASAP as them seem to be the only ones with a sense of responsibility to their obligations under the Geneva Conventions, sad to say.
This has been flagged as spam show
Colin Powell will die as an unconvicted war criminal.
Stevie68000 1 month ago
Colin Powell needs to be jailed for crimes against humanity. He is a torturer, no better than Bin Laden.
tamarexxe 7 months ago
Maddow is a truly bright woman
MrVeggie247 9 months ago
Whats' TYT? A TV program about a TV program...Worse yet, commentary about commentary on other programs. Sometimes I'm ashamed of this country..."So in case you missed it, this was really poignant!" Oh Gawd...
Cionaodh57 10 months ago
@pauli9363 Ok... lets try waterboarding then! you - me - 5 minutes - I'll get you to admit it's torture :)
Daelyas 1 year ago
@pauli9363 Waterboarding is torture. Look it up.
Blighto2 1 year ago
im irish and watching from the outside i always thought powell was a decent person but he was led around by republican idiots .....pity
tonyspacecowboy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Best Russain women dating site gettop5.info
RileyDhdd 1 year ago
Don't know that Powell in necessarily culpable just by virtue of being in the room. He wasn't the top dog. He could have done himself better though by adding to his statement that he "didn't know they were criminal" by also saying he didn't know they were legitimate. It's right though, or at least I believe so, that he would have been the least guilty of anyone in the Bush administration, and he found the door before the President's second term.
stewspin 1 year ago
@stewspin
The congress also had oversight over the cia and intigence community.
Recall, Pelosi being embarrased last year, because she was pointing fingers but it became clear that she knew. She had oversight and supena power as a committee chair over the cia.
charlesvan13 1 year ago
That is one tough looking dude. Colin Powell should just punch him and say fuck off.
zombiejon 1 year ago
9. And before they left power, the Bush Admin rushed through legislation to ensure they could not be bought to account.
Unless they are held accountable it will be a sad chapter for America. The moral ideals and values that it touted on the world stage that lended much to its power, particularly in the Western world, and those values have now been corrupted.
Botie2 2 years ago
@Botie2
What legislation?
The democrats controlled both housed of congress.
charlesvan13 1 year ago
@charlesvan13 You can find lots on you tube about it. I recall a BBC Doco called "Power of Nightmares" which tells the story well. The legislation prohibted the processecution of any member of the executive branch for actions carried out during times of war. During a state of war, Cheney believed the president did not have to account to the congress and had total executive power.
I am not sure how the legislation went through unopposed, but no body is denying that it happened.
Botie2 1 year ago
Criterea was looking Arab and being in the country.
5. In some instances you did not have to be in the country . As in the case of some CIA Kidnapped Canadians and Europeans.
6. Then we tortured these prisoners as a matter of policy till they told us what we wanted to hear.
7. We then let many go without charge years later (you would think they wouild be greatfull).
8. They are denied access to their legal system for compensation on the grounds of National security.
Botie2 2 years ago
1. Colation of the willing went into Iraq looking for WMD's and terrorists and found non.
2. That was OK because we toppled an "Evil Dictator" that killed 5000 of his own people with gas
3. We then made his own people prosecute him for torture as we had done to countless other leaders that got carried away with power during times of war.
3. In doing so we killed tens of thousands of his people and thousands of our own.
4. We rounded up"suspected"terroists.
Botie2 2 years ago
The job of our elected officials is not to defend the nation, it is a sworn oath to defend the constitution of this nation, protecting and preserving the rights and freedom that we enjoy under its infinite wisdom. You can protect someone by putting them in a cell and not allowing any harm to come to them, but its not freedom. What Bush and Cheney did was to usurp power and turn our country into a dictatorship, dangerous ground when you decide to burn the constitution, for all...
liquidgreg1 2 years ago 11
Let me clarify: The question isn't what would you do to get a bona fide terrorist to talk, it's what wouldn't you do to to get a bona fide terrorist to talk.
I'm not worried about our image or treating terrorists with respect. The right thing is to get them to talk and save American lives. Period.
mprichep 2 years ago
MpRicep: How arrogant of you to come out on a World Wide forum and say "all you care about is American lives. Period." You are a good example of what is wrong with America today. Do you think you are doing your country a favour by saying this or do you really believe American lives are more valuable than Iraqi or Arab lives?
Botie2 2 years ago
Hey buddy maybe you missed the giant US flag in the intro and the interview with US Secretary of State Colin Powell about American policies for interrogating terrorists who've attacked the US. I do not know what you are talking about or if you understand English. Maybe a friend can interpret this for you. Who said Iraqi or Arabs? I said terrorists. Terrorists are not just Arab or just Muslim. That's ignorant of you to think that. Terrorists are from all over ie: Yemen, Chechnyan, China, etc.
mprichep 2 years ago
@mprichep
mrprichep, what % of those interrogated do you believe attacked the United States? And if you dont think the more modern terror events were Islamic inspired, why dont you recount them starting with 911, then the bombing in Spain, lets see, Muslims. London Bombings, lets see...Hmmm Islam, Bali, yep you guessed it Islam. The US Military Major who shot 32 marines...Muslim.
Last I heard Yemen was Islamic and Arabic and please point me to a Chinese terrorist.
Botie2 2 years ago
It is more arrogant to stick your nose into a discussion involving the United States and lecture us about what is wrong with us. You don't see me going to a discussion about your country and misconstruing what you are saying because I don't fully understand of the issues do you?
mprichep 2 years ago
@mprichep
You got to be kidding me...The US does not go into other countries and meddle in their business? Is that what your saying? Or do you mean you specifically? If you think when the US sneezes we dont get a cold, your living a cocoon. We have troops in Iraq because you do. We have a sub prime crissis because you do. and yes I do understand the issues, I make a point of it.
Botie2 2 years ago
It's not right to come back and play Monday morning quarterback for what happened almost 8 years ago. We were attacked, we were angry, and determined to never let it happen again. We gave a few people the job to protect a nation and that's exactly what they did. The question isn't what would you do, it's what would you NOT do to protect this nation.
mprichep 2 years ago
@mprichep Ahhhh please explain to me exactly how invading Iraq made your nation safer? Infact how not invading them would have threatened your safety?
Botie2 1 year ago
If anything DevilDog's comments show the mentality that has been pervasive in the military-industrial complex the past 10 years... kill'em all, and let God sort em out.
It's a good thing that soldiers only act on orders, because obviously left of their own accord, they'll act even worse than those we're trying to apprehend and destroy.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for using force (even deadly) when necessary, but the "better kill them before they kill you" mentality is a crock of bullshit.
fido5150 2 years ago
It's good soldiers only act on orders?? They act on orders from other soldier. We call them officers. People like you can't be soldiers because you'd be too busy shitting your pants to follow any of those orders that would save your life and the life of your fellow soldiers. Maybe you shouldn't get your info from Rambo and Hollywood. What you said is insulting to soldiers everywhere. They fight for your freedom and u use that to stereotype them. You are extremely misinformed !
mprichep 2 years ago
"get him in alot of trouble" No he is cuddled up with the belt way liberal crowd. But do you think we should only ask prisoners pretty please? wtf! The torcher issue needs to go away befor some one figures out Obama has to approve the same thing!
john51880 2 years ago
This is why I love liberals. No logic, no brains, only biased bs. The waterboarding of terrorists is about 1,000,000th on the list of priorities as far as things the US DOES that are wrong. Six weeks ago we KILLED (not tortured) 40 INNOCENT Afghani's. Iran murders a protesting women in the middle of Tehran. Where the fuck was this turkey and Maddow then? They only give a shit about suffering if theres a repubulican to pin it on, otherwise forget it. Terrorists have a friend with these two!
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
Look, the logic is... US torturing is just wrong in so many differentways and yes ur right, there are worst things. but ur examples are frivolous. 40 innocent afghani's hmm 1) us (the us public) dont know the real story ... thats happening in a war torn fucking country so its hard to have facts on that. 2) 1 murdered Iranian women.. and u wanna go to war? talk about no brains!!! Thats Irans prob... nothing to do w/ the us. u want atrocities go to Africa you FUCK... but no u wont hear that either
fububalla 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I was in the Marines for the past ten years dip shit and I can tell you that innocent people get killed or mamed far more frequently than your beloved terrorists that were water boarded 10^6:1. Four months ago police shot and killed an innocent man on a train, where's Obama and your fuckin "logical" cronies? Far worse things than making terrorists drink a little water happens every fuckin day right here while you faggots sit, bitch and wien about what the Bush admin. did to keep you all safe.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If someone held a gun to one of your family members and you were behind them with a bat and you knew they'd pull the trigger given the chance, would you still be a liberal and ask them to put it down nicely or would you do something far worse than waterboard them and hit them over the head with a bat? To me and 99% of the people fighting for our country , that "DO" in stead of "talk" you sound like a bunch of fuckin idiotic nazi appeasers. I wish I could just ship you stupid fucks off to 1943.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
he doesn`t know if torture is criminal:-)
but he knew for sure Iraq had wmd`s....
what has become of this man??? wtf is wrong with our politicians...
log140 2 years ago 6
@log140 capitalists are the problem, mostly on the right, but some on the left
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 it is not a question of the system, or of the political spectrum: right or left! it is more a question of right or wrong...! it is what made the difference between the bad guys and the good guys..
Torture is a war-crime! it is wrong..
log140 1 year ago
@log140 well look at the group who support "the troops" while they support people who torture... the ignorance is in the right wing religious and the mainstream of both parties... only 3rd rail parties have good solutions but democrats are much more humane than republicans
wildboy789789 1 year ago
@wildboy789789 when you choose between 2 evils:-) you are right: democrats are less evil!
when you look at this political situation in detail, you will notice they both contribute to the "divide and conquer" principle! the democrats fight against the republicans and the the other way around, while the elite remains untouched...
log140 1 year ago
Sleep deprivation, while not creating acute pain, can and has caused brain damage and lasting mental illness. Just because there are no screams doesn't mean it's NOT torture, 1iedJack. U don't know what torture is, either.
longlakeshore 2 years ago 2
I'll take sleep deprivation and stress positions over getting my fingernails torn out or having a cattle prod shoved up my ass anyday. You people don't know what torture really is.
OneEyedJack1970 2 years ago
word.. but regardless of what kind it is your not going to get good information
jakehubbb 2 years ago
exactly... and thats why we should feel comfortable enough to know we live in a country that doesn't do that. Why stoop down the a dogs level to teach it a lesson??
fububalla 2 years ago
You know what we did when the Nazi's conquered most of Western Europe dip shit? We STOOPED down to there level and started killing every fuckin Nazi we could. One day a select few of you dumb shit utopian dreaming bastards will wake the fuck up and realize that there are still Hitlers out their that dont have a big ass swastika tatooed on thier fuckin heads for you to recognize. Terrorits will kill military and civilians, even their own. Wake. The. Fuck. Up.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
dude you got so many disconnects in your logic and factoids that you could make a light bulb spark in ur head. you got skype or something and we kan debate this out sensibly?? just msg me. i'd love to hear where u comin from. i've served to and as a marine you should know how horrible torture is... u remember vietnam? ask john mccain... lets just do that everybody if they dont agree w/ how we think.. again just msg me ur skype and we kan chat... make up a name i dont care
fububalla 2 years ago
I'm proud of Colin Powell for going on MSNBC, an adverserial program, to explain torture. To my knowledge, he is the only high level person to go on on MSNBC to take such a question, or he could be a chicken-shit and go on Fox to explain it. I admire Colin Powell even if he has a small part to do with everything, he's a human trying to explain how the US came to torture people.
I think that it's his conscience, his office, that will uncover the truth in what ever for it exists.
cavy999999 2 years ago
Ofcourse they fucking Aproved they're so Devoid of Morals and reality they dont even get that Torturing people is Simply wrong.
yakomuto 2 years ago
Babylon the great is the United States of America!
Rev 18 and Jer:51 with Isaiah30:25 and Isaiah9:8-10
Isaiah (9:8-19) is the exact description of our rebuilding the freedom twin towers Just b4 total destruction as it happened in ancient Israel,
They were defiant just as we are Americas end will be the same!
America will be completely destroyed soon! Within months as will the rest of the globe! because America will not turn around. As you read this you have had your last warning!
ravenwolf789 2 years ago
Spectacular job? Man you are so screwed up on the Kool aid?
happy2bUSA 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
More than literature, I would suggest that you talk to the people who actually lived under Soviet rule; they more than any revisionist history professor can tell you, how much they appreciate what America and Reagan's policies aided in the eventual collapse of the Sovet Union. I know is difficult to accept that America is the "ONLY" and last beacon of freedom left in the world. As Reagan once said: "NO ARSENAL OF WEAPONS....IS SO FORMIDABLE AS THE WILL AND MORAL COURAGE OF FREE MEN AND WOMEN".
alacranmann 2 years ago
Why Reagan was great?. Well let's see lifting America from a terrible recesion that pres Carter caused with much of the same policies that Obama is using, setting the tone and foundation for the destruction of the evil USSR with the only strategy that works wich is "PEACE TROUGH STRENGTH" and in the process liberating millions of people from under Soviet domination, revitalizing the American brand all around the world among other things. To me that qualifies as a great president. About you?.
alacranmann 2 years ago
Can you quote your sources for me? I was under the impression the USSR was imploding for about 40 years. But if you some literature you might suggest I will entertain other ideas.
morganbath 2 years ago
Comment removed
alacranmann 2 years ago
He sold weapons to Iran.
winick88 2 years ago
Did you retract your reply for a reason? You wrote this:
" I would suggest that you talk to the people who actually lived under Soviet rule; they more than any revisionist history professor can tell you, how much they appreciate what America and Reagan's policies aided in the eventual collapse of the Sovet Union. "
I call those people "neighbours". I guess you did not realise the internet is worldwide :)
morganbath 2 years ago
This deification of Reagan is just pathetic. Carter lost because not long after he became president OPEC jammed the price of oil through the roof and it triggered economic recession and inflation, which of course, he got the blame for. Evenso, his budget deficits came nowhere near what Reagan ran up, which in turn, come no where near what Bush II ran up.
alaskafido 2 years ago 2
ussr is not evil
gallanator 2 years ago
BLAH BLAH BLAH! What a bunch or homeerotic nonsense. Reagan was responsible for NONE of the things your crediting him for!
The Soviet Union was collapsing for decades. Communism just DOESNT work! How Ray-gun gets credit for that mystifies me.
What did he do to pull the US out of recession? Oh yeah, he lifted the Opec embargo! Wait, You mean he didn't do that either???? LOL
johnedwards1968 2 years ago
I would try and educate you in American politics BUT I have to agree with MeLikeGoFast ; being Canadian explains your ignorance ,picking on you would be like picking on a special needs person.
alacranmann 2 years ago
Good for you! Way to prove your point! Hmmmm, You didn't do that either! LOL, I guess there really are some special needs people in here, regurgitating (that means puking up) the same old nonsense over and over again.
You did really good there skippy!!! LOL
johnedwards1968 2 years ago
I respect Powell's service to the nation, but he should stop trying to justify his mistakes by doing the liberal thing and blaming it all on Bush. More and more he sounds like a moron who was taken advantage of by the Bush administration, not the smart general he is supposed to be. 20 years from now what Bush and Cheney did will be regarded as a great leadership moment in American history. Remember you liberal fucks that is how long it took all of you to understand how great Reagan was.
alacranmann 2 years ago
Im curious why he is considered great. I know quite a lot about the history/politics of the period and never quite understood why Americans considered him so great. He seemed intelligent and entertaining, but realistically he achieved very little other than liberalization of the economic/financial system. And with hindsight that seems to have not gone very well.
When people say "great american president" I think Lincoln, Washington, maybe FDR. But why Reagan?
morganbath 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Why Reagan was great?. Well let's see lifting America from a terrible recesion that pres Carter caused with much of the same policies that Obama is using, setting the tone and foundation for the destruction of the evil USSR with the only strategy that works wich is "PEACE TROUGH STRENGTH" and in the process liberating millions of people from under Soviet domination, revitalizing the American brand all around the world among other things. To me that qualifies as a great president. About you?.
alacranmann 2 years ago
Powell seems to be acting senile. I was at some but don't remember what all was said. I don't know if those things were illegal, the man is a college graduate and has been in the military for decades but doesn't know these things? You cannot turn a blind eye when things like that are happening and a man with character would tell the truth...Powell evaded the truth and that to me speaks guilt or makes him as guilty. He wants to hide the truth, then he can swing from the gallows with the guilty.
Armorbeast 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
We let this torture thing slide, we are truly and I mean truly fucked. It will be Americas defense attornies wet dream. If you have a brother or sister that is falsly accused of something and the cops used "enhanced interogation techniques", I hope your brother or sister does not think that they can go to court and prosecute the cops. All the cops have to say is shit, our government tortures, don't come after me. Some people can't think or see past their noses. Ridiculous!
peaceispatriotic7 2 years ago
will those transcripts really be released? i highly doubt it. there probably is no transcript. bush and cheney should be waterboarded.
pingpong8355 2 years ago
You are right pingpong! cheney is in front of every camera in the US now and says there are memoes. I would bet a million right now that fucker destroyed them so now he can say that we have them but just won't release them. He was an evil fuck then and he is an evil fuck now. End of story!
peaceispatriotic7 2 years ago
American gun manufacturers do not need me ,they are doing a very robust business at the moment.
Besides I am a Canadian an do not subscribe to owning revolvers or Machine guns and allowing them to fall into the hands of your children .
that's so American like your rebuttal you Americans only use the word revolution in the context of military over throw.
expand your horizons
dave777blaster 2 years ago
Uncle Tom doing his masters bidding as usual!
jondobigballs 2 years ago
Americans pushed for prosecution of Japanese soldiers on the grounds that the used water boarding !
Now today American has been caught doing the same thing ?
Americans bow your heads in shame the world watches as you fail to muster the courage to prosecute the new water boarders.
look at your economy ,it will will continue to fall ,you no longer merit or deserve a bright future.
you have become your own destroyers.
dave777blaster 2 years ago
That's a really fucking shitty thing to say. I am a US Citizen, and I have NEVER waterboared anyone. I have tortured anyone. Yet you want MY economy to fail and for me to suffer. How humanitarian is that?
illusionistdave 2 years ago
Not me but many Americans no longer care.
The more the economy fails the more people
will sign up for the second Revolution.
This time we need a revolution that All Americans becoming responsible,and look to a local system of governance ,not central.
It's time to wise up and be responsible .
not blaming others that is the old paradigm in America.
dave777blaster 2 years ago 2
dave777blaster is employed by the gun industry. Their objective is to spread treasonous talk such as this and get both sides buying weapons and score great profits from fear.
contributor34 2 years ago
Yes you have... you are an American citizen so you water boarded people and funded the slaughter of over a million for the personal profit of a few sociopaths.
People are responsible for their governments actions... If our government spends trillions of dollars we have to pay it back... I can't say hey that's not fair.. I didn't spend the money. The system doesn't work that way.
Generally people have to sleep in the bed they made.
I'm American too.
abram730 2 years ago
"Yes you have... you are an American citizen so you water boarded people and funded the slaughter of over a million for the personal profit of a few sociopaths."
The problem is I NEVER WATERBOARDED ANYONE and you can't prove any of the other claims. You're a fucking idiot!
illusionistdave 2 years ago
In a Representative Democracy, people are elected to carry out the will of the people and that includes you.. Their actions are thus your actions. If they tortured you tortured.. If they water boarded people then you water boarded people.
If you hired a person to kill for you and they do, then guess what, you killed.
If you loan a person your car and they hit/damage/injure/kill someone, expect to be sued.
abram730 2 years ago
"In a Representative Democracy, people are elected to carry out the will of the people and that includes you.. "
Excellent point. Sometimes those who are elected to carry out the will of the people do not do so. An example is the case with torturing.
illusionistdave 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The law is the law. The law does not care about parties. The Attorney General must follow his job description, investigate and prosecute where crimes are found. The congress must follow it's job description and do the same. We must affirm to ouselves and show the rest of the world we are a nation of laws.
ushadrons 2 years ago
Would you be willing to waterboard 3 individuals to prevent the 2,974 deaths on September 11, 2001?
RaleighRepubican2012 2 years ago
Nope. America DOES NOT TORTURE. Now matter what, we DO NOT commit human rights violations. That's why we are America. If you want to live in a country that is Ok with torture, you're basically saying have no moral principles.
wootemi 2 years ago
What would you have done the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah? How would you go about interrogating them? What methods would you use?
RaleighRepubican2012 2 years ago
It has been shown time and time again that torture does NOT gain good intelligence. People will lie their asses off to get it to stop. TORTURE DOES NOT WORK.
How about just interrogating them as usual and hoping you can break their resolve? I'd rather gain useful info the hard way than useless info through torture.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
If America wanted to start a war against shape shifting reptiles we would "need to torture" because "people will lie their asses off to get it to stop". How else would we fight shape shifters other then torture?
Point being we launched a war against a subterranean army explained to have vast underground muti tiered bases with underground hydroelectric power plants, doors big enough to drive tanks threw, communications equipment to organize a global army of sleeper cells.
Get it?
abram730 2 years ago
Are you on hallucinogenics?
The detainees, no matter how reprehensible their politics, are still humans. And we, as Americans, still have to follow the law. It is agains the law to waterboard. This has been decided since at LEAST 1947. Reagan prosecuted Texas lawmen for THIS EXACT ACT and called it torture. Torture does not gain useful intelligence. Never has, never will.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
I'm against torture. You miss my point.
During the middle ages people were accused of witch craft, being werewolf's or vampires. After torture they would confess.
You're not going to get people to confess to being something that doesn't exist without torture.
you are appalled by the torture and me saying that it's needed, yet to have a war against a non existent enemy you need to torture.
A clip from a Documentary broadcast on the BBC.
watch?v=6nLuzFLWQd4
Get it yet?
abram730 2 years ago
This is a false choice, but to entertain your question I will answer. No. The law is the law. The law does not care about parties. The Attorney General must follow his job description, investigate and prosecute where crimes are found. The congress must follow it's job description and do the same. We must affirm to ouselves and show the rest of the world we are a nation of laws.
ushadrons 2 years ago
If someone is holding a gun to your family member's head and threatening to pull the trigger and you have a clear shot at them to kill them before they kill your family member, are you going to say "now wait a minute, we have laws and the law says not to murder so I better not take the shot. It is better to let my family member die."
RaleighRepubican2012 2 years ago
This again is a false choice. Shotting someone who has a gun trained on anyone is not murder. Howerver, if I manage to get his gun away from him , I can't tie him up in my basement and torture him to see if he has accomplises. It appears to me that you, like most Republicans I debate on youtube, are suffering from limbic brain disorder, you live in a world of subjective reality, created by your Machiavellian masters. When confronted with the truth you you become even more irrational.
ushadrons 2 years ago
It is not irrational to make every effort possible to protect the American people. Somehow liberals have this idea that "if we are nice to the terrorists, they will like us and not attack us", this typically stems from an atheist point of view that says there is no God and therefor good and evil do not exist. I'm happy to tell you that there is good and evil in the world and to protect good you must pro-actively fight evil. I value human life, I wish interrogation wasn't needed but it is.
RaleighRepubican2012 2 years ago
Wrong again, your still offering false choices based on fallicies. There is a difference between interrogation and torture. We prosecuted and executed Japenese soldiers for waterboarding and now it is ok? God does exsist, and there is certainly evil in this world. Good knows that fighting evil with evil only makes you the evil you pretend to be fighting. Your rationalization for breaking the laws of the United States and the international treaties that we have drafted and signed is evil vs evil.
ushadrons 2 years ago
Yes, it is irrational to attempt to secure complete safety. Such a thing does not exist. No one is saying "be nice to terrorists". We are saying that we have a standard of conduct to maintain and we should abide by our own laws and rules even in times of trouble.
Those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
That isn't the same as torturing someone for information. Killing someone who is an IMMEDIATE threat to the lives of others is just sensible and decent. Torture is disgraceful, useless and illegal.
As Americans, we should all be ashamed and apalled that our gov't stooped so low as to employ tactics that are not only against the Geneva Convention, but beneath human dignity.
Also, when we torture them we give them permission to torture us. And they don't waterboard.
ciaochowbella 2 years ago
That could be done outside of the law if such a situation arrose. Presidential pardons do exist. The nation is far stronger if it eliminates torture. Second of all your example is hindsight. We could waterboard everybody in Pakistan with that philosophical question.
contributor34 2 years ago
I did not imply violence is used
On the contrary, a responsibility revolution is called for, not irresponsibility .
It is time become responsible for yourself.
dave777blaster 2 years ago
Colin Powell least guilty?
Wasn't it his powerful evidence given that influenced the go ahead for the war on Iraq?
minteko 2 years ago
Powell stated that he had misgivings about the evidence of Iraq aiding Al Qaeda, citing he was basing all this on a captured operative - who later recanted.
Regardless of what Powell told him, Bush stated it as fact. "Iraq has also provided Al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training."
It was CIA evidence that Bush practically told them to go find so he could justify invading Iraq.
gtroman 2 years ago
what if torture techniques saved lives of more people then were affected by torture?
why is colin powell the least guilty administration official?
mrjoeymo 2 years ago
But they didn't man...The fact is that torture caused us to follow thousands of false leads and waste millions of taxpayer dollars. CIA officials have admitted this. People will admit anything under torture, that is where it fails..
seestickglue232 2 years ago
whoa i never thought about it like that
thanks man =)
alotofcheese76 2 years ago
you're welcome
you're pretty cute by the way
seestickglue232 2 years ago
We need more transparancy like this!
Great Job!
WhiteBull 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hello, I am your President O-Dumbass, I bring you "Dopes" some "Chains", just keep believing in my teleprompter, uhg- I mean, aah, ME. "Chains (of government) you can believe in"..Truly
presidentodumbass 2 years ago
ya, you are right about maddow. the only
journalist on tv. ill bet billy o hates her.
not that he would admit it. im expecting
him to aim his shit at her eventually.
jumbobobcleo 2 years ago
There can be no bureacratic approval of torture. Its a road that leads to hell. No country that has had bureacratic approval of torture has not tortured their own citizens down the road. If an intelligence officer feels torture is necessary to stop the 'ticking bomb' he will do so and risk his freedom doing so. If he was justified then the President will allow it as necessary for extreme national security reasons.
Bush's desire for torture was simply his attempt to destroy the rule of law
duncan36 2 years ago
why do people make a big deal about the fucking Geneva Convention? are they stupid? i say fuck the Gneva Convention. why is it fair for one side to follow those rules when the other side doesn't give two shits about it? do you really think if you get caught by the other side, they are gonna spare you because of some rules written god konws when, by god knows who? the US should just be upfront about it. you capture our soldiers and torture them, we torture your combatants.
kanguesso 2 years ago
Because at least the side that follows it can claim they are human beings and not barbaric savages. What's the point of trying to preserve humanity if we all simply act like depraved animals because the other side does? Someone has to stand up and be the change we wish to see in the world.
smartmarzipan 2 years ago
so you're saying then that it's just a game of who can claim to have the moral high ground right? well that does not produce intelligence in the battle field. in the battle front, the enemy only recognizes one thing, your weapon. i do understand that we have to be humane and preserve humanity. however, war is a game between soldiers, or at least in principle, when you're a soldier, you understand the stakes involved and you accept them for whatever they may be.
kanguesso 2 years ago
I don't think any aspect of the situation is a "game".
smartmarzipan 2 years ago
ofcourse i don't mean that in the most literal sense of the word. i meant "game" as a metaphor for whatever war means to people.
kanguesso 2 years ago
This is why we do not believe anything you guys have to say to us, because you have situational ethics. You have no problem with putting our asses in a sling if it furthers your agenda. Collateral damage. Colin Powell work his entire life with ethics and character just to learn that it was all put on the line to further a hidden agenda of the presidents, cheney, and rumsfield. That must have devastated him and the trust he had for all of them. You all can't be trusted and will sacrifice people.
rannedwards 2 years ago
it is more important to find the damn truth - journalism is not politics JOURNALISM is not POLITICS. Politics has posed as journalism - but finding the truth and reporting it is journalism. It is to bad when it is uncomfortable to hear but it is journalism and we need more of it.
ccm800 2 years ago
Rachel was trying to be relevant, but came across as a dick. Colin Powell left the Bush Administration the moment he realized that he had been lied to and manipulated into going before congress(?) or the UN with the lies fed to him. This is why Colin Powell left politics. He realized that they had all lied to him. He is an ethical man, they knew this, and he could no longer trust them. What else had they lied to him about? He attended meetings with them unaware. Scary.
rannedwards 2 years ago
Clinton gets the hammer cause he got a blow job while Bush murdered with a free pass...Can't figure out American politics
dishwithtrish 2 years ago 5
It was a matter of wether the president was doing the bidding of those who run the country from behind the scenes. Clinton ran afoul of these people. Bush was a good little puppy who did what he was told.
fridgeman101101 2 years ago
read the Geneva Convention..
Dewdaahman 2 years ago
I would love to meet Colin Powell. I think he has more common sense then Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld combined. But he has disappointed me a bit. But hey, when you're Secretary of State under the most unpopular president. What r u going to do?
bart11114 2 years ago
Well Mr. Powell if you did Not stop it or raise a stink about it.You are just as bad as Chaney and Bush.You should know better.
yapper300 2 years ago
Maddow is a far left loon who actually had the nerve to say that terrorists were actually "compliant" with U.S officials before "torture." Are you kidding me? If they were compliant BEFORE "torture" they wouldnt be "tortured" in the first place!
phillip42 2 years ago
BSNBC is so far into the left loon tank that all of their reporting is not done on the current economic crisis or the mistakes barack obama is making, rather, all their time is focusing on supportin SPAIN in indicting bush and his officials. pathetic
phillip42 2 years ago
Hey Maddow and I have at least one thing in common - - we both love pussy!
InjunBuck 2 years ago
so what's wrong with torture of terrorists? Splain that again to me Lucy.
InjunBuck 2 years ago
I'm not lucy (whoever the hell that is) but I'll explain it to you anyway. First of all, torture as a interrogation technique doesn't work. People will say anything to stop someone waterboarding them. Second, it's illegal by the Geneva Convention and by our own constitution. Third, terrorists can use torture as a recruiting point and make people hate america even more. They may deserve it, but it doesn't help with anything.
fanaticmoron 2 years ago
Aside from being unconstitutional, the majority of these people have never been proven to be terrorists.
JahRage 2 years ago
I'd really like to know how this worthless dyke ever gets any guests. totally stupid. it's like asking if u'd like to be interviewed by Bugs Bunny. it's not journalism or news
pulsar00815 2 years ago
hey pulsar--pull your head out of your ass. solid question, evasive answer. if you're gonna crack on anybody in this scenario, start with powell. you strike me as a homo-hating deep republican values kind of guy (Cheney comes to mind), but if you are basing your comments on this particular clip, wake up.
gvraymond11 2 years ago
fine fine, the dyke asked the same questions of Pelosi and got the same evasive answers
pulsar00815 2 years ago
i agree with you GeeYouAreYou0001. all those republican animals like pig George Bush are down now. as Americans, we will never ever again pick them up. one day we will see them on court for war felony. we will see them soon.
PersAmerican 2 years ago
What does it say about Obama, that NOW he doesn't want to look back at Bush's crimes, we need to move forward? These guys are all the same. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can get our country back.
JahRage 2 years ago
I was watching the maddow show and actual "journalism broke out".
How far has Powell sunk to go on MSNBCs version of the Glen Beck show?
Why does this woman still have a show she sucks.
ArdenLinoge 2 years ago
Cause our media is screwed beyond repair :/ I loved Keith and Rachel when Bush was in power because they spoke the truth. Now they are the Dems version of fox news. Blind allegiance to their party's leader. If she is going to ask Powell a questions, she needs to insist on a real answer!!
JahRage 2 years ago 2
lol...he doesnt know if it is criminal........wtf?
kalvinphil 2 years ago
i have read so many scary stories about innocent people being locked in Guantanamo, just to get released several years later, since they were innocent. Even a guy from my own country sweden, for several years, just released, put through hell with no explanation or excuse. Its fucking awful. You stupid americans can torture your own people all you like but get your hands off the rest of the world.
PS: IF its against the geneve convention, its illegal.
jesperv 2 years ago
Hey Swedish dude, I don't want you to think that Americans actually approve of the outragious torture techniques that were practiced at Guantanamo. The only people who really approve of Gitmo are the Bush cronies, and they're out of power now. The American public has widespread outrage concerining the torture of innocents. It was an ineffective interrogation method that produced false evidence and delt a major blow to America's standing in the world and Americans are staunchly against it.
GeeYouAreYou0001 2 years ago 3
But it seems that we(Americans) don't care too much. Obama wants to take the closing of G-Bay slow, but tell that to the people locked up there for no reason. Charge these people with SOMETHING within a month and put them on trial or let them, go. Its very very simple.
JahRage 2 years ago
I think closing Gitmo in a year is relitively quick. You have to try everybody in court, find out if they're quilty, release thoughs who are innocent, find out where we put all the guilty ones, find countries that will accept the terrorists that we can't hold, and do something about the prison itself. Once you take that into consideration, plus all the lawsuits that will probabley come out of this, you begin to wonder if 1 year is enough time.
GeeYouAreYou0001 2 years ago
I agree that we have to try everybody in court, but it doesn't have to be a secret military court, and they don't have to be housed at gitmo. Transfer all of them to maximum security prisons in the US and shut gitmo down. Your comment about "countries to accept terrorists we can't hold" makes no sense to me. If they ARE terrorst then why cant we hold them? If we CAN'T hold them, we likely have little to no evidence of them being terrorists. Gitmo is a disgrace, it can't be close quick enough.
JahRage 2 years ago
It's a complicated situation. You're right in saying that we don't have to try everyone in military courts, but our prison system is filled to the brim and many high security prisons just can't hold the 600 or so terrorists coming from Gitmo. Plus, many of these people are wanted by countries other than the U.S., so it only makes sense for us to hand some of these prisoners over to other countries.
GeeYouAreYou0001 2 years ago
The Bush government made the case that Al Qaeda shouldn't be covered under the Geneva Convention rules as it is not a State but rather an organization. So basically under Bush's thinking he could take ANYONE, throw them in Gitmo, torture the **** out of them and then defend his action by saying "Meh....we thought he was Al Qaeda."
Ian7570 2 years ago
Agreed, the international agreements are set up to establish laws governing humans, not 'governments', arguing that they aren't part of a country is semantics. I think Powell is a straight up guy, but they should all be tried. Or just send them to gitmo, after all they said it's humane.
Gugguggug 2 years ago
TYT are soooooooo douchey. Sleep deprivation and stress positions were and are perfectly legal and effective interrogation tools, and many US soldiers endure much worse during routine training. The fact that this is even an issue is laughable to an ex-soldier like me. Civilian carebears like Maddow are only betraying their ignorance of how interrogations and military operations are effectively carried out. But by all means, keep injecting your uninformed input where it doesn't belong.
lykej 2 years ago
It's a slippery slope though. If you start saying that waterboarding isn't torture then what next? How far do you want to go to extract information from people? If you start saying that it's okay to dismember people to get information that saves lives then your legitimizing torture against your own citizens. And do you really believe these interrogation methods produced any benefit?
Ian7570 2 years ago
exactly.
fanaticmoron 2 years ago
this bastard also knew that wmd did not exist in Iraq but continued to lie to us
if you want proof enter this into the search field in youtube
"Rice and Powell in 2001 saying Iraq had no WMDs"
nomoreterrorism 2 years ago
collin powell = scumbag
PoliticsAddict 2 years ago
hey, i have a great idea:
just prove that torture is affective by asking the guys you torture if they think it works. and if they say no, torture them some more.
manuelschindler 2 years ago
i have so much respect for powell. the more and more i find out about him, the more and more i feel my respect is unwarranted.
joedafrog 2 years ago
Until Colin Powell apologizes for lying to the American Public & the UN., he has no honor with me -- I don't care if he was "used" by Bush/Cheney.
DillonX 2 years ago
Collin Powell is my hero.
vertsk8n 2 years ago
If you're a terrorist asshole, you deserve everything you get. If you kill my countrymen, I would be happy to administer a "terrorist implant" in whatever caliber you choose.
YFUATIW 2 years ago
if only we could tell the difference between a terrorist and an innocent bystander with a 100 percent clarity. if that ideal was the case, i would be with you. as it stands, you are a 100 percent wrong.
manuelschindler 2 years ago
torture those cocksuckers!!! fuck em!
rocdamc 2 years ago
I could NOT believe how defensive Powell got on the subject..
He's covering his own ass
korky94 2 years ago
Why Colin Powell stands up for Cheney and Bush is neyond me. They threw him under the bus, and he doesnt fight back. Its a sorry thing to see him have to hedge.
GtrGeorge 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
u must read this. once u have started there is no turning back. a little 10 year old girl was raped and murderded in 1945. her body was not found until 1947. then a boy last week read this and did not copy and paste this message. the dead girl appeared in his room haunting him and killed him. if you do not copy and paste this onto 10 vidoes in 30 minutes the dead girl will apear in your room tonight and haunt you and kill you. well you better start to copy and paste to be saved Did this lol
hermanliiscool1 2 years ago
now interview powell's colon
Hilariousity 2 years ago
kittycats luv the Maddow show. she smells like tuna and salmon
MEOW MEOW MEOW they cry at the tv
pulsar00815 2 years ago
I love Colin Powell, but man, I am disappointed in him. Dr. Maddow, Kudos
bluesboy25000 2 years ago 3
Journalism on television happens in other countries, it's only in the US where it's primarily a farce.
corporateceo 2 years ago
Doesn't surprise me, his lack of answering. No one's going to sit in front of a camera and admit to war crimes.
Fred13B 2 years ago
Least guilty? He did not stop what he would have known to be illegal......... EQUALLY guilty is more like it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. It WOULD be that way for you and I, right? Accessory to the fact ring a bell? Ding, Ding.
Ricangal 2 years ago
Warning!
An outbreak of critical Journalism.
Everyone with something to hide should stay at home!
qanazir 2 years ago
HE NEVER EVEN ANSWERS THE QUESTIONS!! How is this a good job? He states he cant comment on ALL the meetings because he wasn't at some of them. Wouldn't the next move for a REAL journalist be to pin him down on an answer about the meetings he WAS at? Your thoughts please...
JahRage 2 years ago
i agree, the questions were good but he never really answers and she doesn't hold his feet to the fire.
ambientdiscord 2 years ago
So if there are transcripts, who has them now and why can't we get them released now? We should make them available to the Spanish courts ASAP as them seem to be the only ones with a sense of responsibility to their obligations under the Geneva Conventions, sad to say.
facturaDan 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
dont hold your breath
Amarx00 2 years ago
Rachel is a straight shooter.
bigtequila 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
dumb cenk is still talking about bush
when at the same time a obama or another fool is taking him place and has the exact same advisors
cenk= fool
erdal0 2 years ago