@whoisfettel "the reason why stoning is no longer permitted is because christians are now operating under the new covenant. This where jesus pretty much comes in."
No, Matt 5:19 is where JC comes in: "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands [in the Mosaic Law] and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..."
JC did NOT come to abolish the Law; he required his followers to be super-observant of it. And that includes MANDATORY stoning.
@whoisfettel "the reason why stoning is no longer permitted is because christians are now operating under the new covenant. This where jesus pretty much comes in."
No, Matt 5:19 is where JC comes in: "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands [in the Mosaic Law] and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..."
JC did NOT come to abolish the Law; he required his followers to be super-observant of it. And that includes MANDATORY stoning.
1) Can people *choose* to believe something? They can choose to *act* as though they believe, but wouldn't an omniscient deity see through that?
2) PW assumes there's only one possible "god"/religion to believe in--but mankind has worshipped many 1000s. How can you know that *yours* is the right/only one?
3) It's hardly true that "nothing's lost" in believing: time, money, FREEDOM are lost.
4) PW relies on *fear of pain*--a poor ad for a "loving god"!
Its funny how they belive in no God but live theyre life talking about God haha God obviously plays a hudge role in their life Either way! Lol God bless everyone Amen.
It gives voice to all other Atheists, lets them know that they are not the only ones. It also provides a service for logical thinkers in an majority christian society. Also debating is fun for some people.
Shame on these people. Why do they need they feel they need to promote there atheism to discredit believers in god? Wether your muslim, christian or jewish, it doesnt matter. At least you believe. I am neither muslim, christian nor jew, but i do read the bible and my faith in God stems far greater than these satanic preachers can ever imagine. What can you lose by believing in god? your pride? Is it not cool enough these days???
@KalinskiDJ It's an athiest show, he called in, he got the athiest point of view. There are plenty of christian shows with the same format where those people talk about their own beleifs and I'm sure they would do the same to an athiest caller wich is to debate their stance on their beleif.
@KalinskiDJ Why does every religion convert people to its faith? Because people need to prove their point of view is the right one. Atheism is a religion as much as any other. It is a belief system that promotes not believing in god. And as such it is as much bullshit as any other religion and those who promote it are full of shit preachers just like any other preacher.
@yarpen800 It is not a religion, you are saying it is the belief that does not believe in a God. It is simply a lack of a belief in all Gods, not any particular one. All of them. WE have no scriptures, no dogma, no holy lands, no temples or churches.
@yarpen800 I will explain this slowly and simply to you. as stated by the lady on this show neither theists or atheists have proof that a god/s created the universe. the probability however is somewhat different. it can be certain that current religions are man made and that those gods are definately false.
What if Atheists are wrong? Are you not understanding the concept? Atheists are people who don't believe because it hasn't been presented to them. It's like me opening my hand with nothing in it, then you replying "I don't see anything." Then me replying "hahaha, you're stupid! There's an alien in my hand! He created you! But, he can't stop you from killing, cure cancer, aids, hunger, war, earthquakes, lightning, lupus,famine, cirrhosis, etc., but he's the almighty!" You are retarded
I personally want to thank every Atheist out there. You have no idea how you have blessed the church, which in my opinion was starting to choke. You (and your radical ideology) has infused new life into it. I'm beginning to see people flowing back into the pews, many confessing it was people like you who got them to thinking. So from the bottom of my heart I want to thank each of you. And if you'll allow me a bit of humor...God bless you!
@KinaNafasi: I don't have time to waste 'counting on it'. Truth is, the church is slowly receding in its influential power because more rational individuals are not being convinced by their 'evidence' that christian theology (which is not a science) is factual.
@chinopisces Power comes and goes as you are well aware. But the church and its beliefs have never derived its power and influence from some claim to science. Its power comes from a dynamic belief in what can't be explained by any natural or scientific explanation. This belief is manifesting itself in different ways then the traditional way you are use to; outreach has increased and more is getting done. And we owe it all to you atheist. So again i say. God bless you for all your help.
These videos never amuse me, every person calling is narrow minded and obviously haven't explored much on religion or philosophy in general. I can't see what having these completely one sided debates do for the viewer at all, except for maybe reinforce a proud atheist.
To whom do you expect these people to go to?..only Jesus Christ has the words that give eternal life: John 7,..Its already been said that this things will happen,when the leaves of a tree come out, you know without being told that summer is near..Dont let this people mislead you.
@mustangpassurchevy "Otherwise you just don't know do you?" That's the point they are making. Atheism is the rejection of positive claims for God's existence, not an assertion that there is in fact no God. Your idea of praying every night for God to revealing himself and failing to do so, would not be proof of God's non-existence.
The problem is they picked someone who doesn’t even know the bible to debate against three people who have no boundaries. I say they can prove one way or another if there is a God. All they have to do is pray every night a small prayer. “If there is a God for Him to show Himself to me“ It only takes 20 seconds a night. Do it for a year. If nothing happens then and only then you have a argument. Otherwise you just don’t know do you?
@UnexpectedWonder Again, making Atheism out to be something that it's not. Rejecting your claims for God is not an assertion that there is no God. It's questioning the claims made by man for the existence of God. The next time someone tells you God doesn't exist, ask them to prove it.
@jdale1 I HAVE BEEN! damn, ur Slow. i don't think ur a True Atheist. most Atheists on Youtube i genuinely believe r Agnostics who don't want 2 admit. Atheism declares, "There is no god." Agnosticism declares, "We cannot know if there is or is not a god." it's that simple, dude.
@UnexpectedWonder "I HAVE BEEN! damn" You have been what? "i don't think ur a True Atheist" By your own definition, you have made it abundantly clear that you do not understand what Atheism is. "most Atheists on Youtube i genuinely believe r Agnostics" A majority of them do not know or understand the meaning. "Atheism declares, "There is no god." That would be making a positive claim, just as you saying "There is a god". If I said, "There is no god", my claim that there isn't requires evidence.
@UnexpectedWonder I do not believe in god, I don't claim to know there is no god. Atheism is the lack of belief. I reject your claim that god exists, because your claims for a deity's existence have not met a burden of proof. I don't have to provide evidence that my disbelief is "true", my disbelief is validated because you have failed to present evidence to support your claim. It's as simple as that, DUDE.
@UnexpectedWonder You would really kill yourself if it proven that God didn't exist and you call Atheism ignorant? You don't need God then, you need to have your head examined.
@jdale1 it wasn't the answer u were expectting now was it? i Think outside the box. i suggest u do it too. u say i should have my head checked, yet i can talk clearly, logically, scientifically, historically, and philosophically about the existence of a deity. u don't KNOW My Life story. i have a reason for my claim. u, sir, have forgotten the Human Element. without Christ, i literally wouldn't be discussing with u; i'd have long since committed suicide. what do u have 2 say 2 that?
@UnexpectedWonder "it wasn't the answer u were expectting now was it?" Surprised yes, that all this world has to offer that you would kill yourself if you discovered God didn't exist. How selfish. Do you not have family or friends, what about their lives without you? All you have and currently know is the life you live now, live that to the fullest. I'm glad that you found someone or something to save you. It's fine if you want to credit that to God, but give yourself some credit for dealing
@UnexpectedWonder with tough times. "yet i can talk clearly, logically, scientifically, historically, and philosophically" It would be nice to see you add English to that list. "u don't KNOW My Life story" You're right I don't. You seem to throw arounf the assumptions and accusations to other quite freely here though. "i have a reason for my claim" reason and proof are too different things. If it is faith in God you have, I can't touch you, end of discussion. Your faith is not proof though.
If I were /actually/ curious about the answers to those questions, my first step might be Wikipedia's articles on those two phenomena. You /know/ there are in fact such tests, which is why those objects are presumed. Science is based on those tests. There is no object in science which is not the result of such a test. You CANNOT extend those "hypothetical circumstances" into infinite scenarios, because the circumstances are NOT HYPOTHETICAL, they are ACTUAL and PUBLISHED.
@rkyeun Published findings are like a river, constantly rushing by us. Not saying they r not Valid though. My point was this. we can neither create Black holes nor Anti-matter. in the same way, we can neither create Life, a soul, or consciousness. u get My drift. hell, we can't even create plasma or nuclear fusion. we can't understand what an Atom really is. what empirical evidence then can be gathered 2 ABSOLUTE justify the existence of God with such a finite method as is our present Science?
Are you as sure of that as you are ABOUT YOUR GOD?
Are you sure we can't create plasma? Are you SURE we can't create fusion?
Would you like to perhaps ASK if we can, and how, and when it was first done before you make a TOTAL ass of yourself?
THIS is why science works, and religion does not. Published findings are not like a river. They are like a LANDSLIDE, constantly building, scouring the earth clean of falsehood.
@jdale1 No. i won't. God is in control, but Humans have Free-will. My questions r usually about human action and irrational thaought. as i've said before and will say till i die, "If someone is able to show me evidence that is Scientific, Historical, Philosophical, etc. that God isn't Real and Jesus is not the Son of God, then I will become an Atheist INSTANTLY" that's how Confident and Certain i am that it will NEVER happen. No one has even come close. The explanations don't fill All Holes.
@UnexpectedWonder But, that doesn't mean that we will never have an answer for it. Just because science won't answer something when it's convenient for you, saying that "God did it" is again answering out of ignorance.
@UnexpectedWonder Are you kidding me right now? If you need clarification of the term "burden of proof" you've lost your entire argument. How is it that you know other "Gods" claimed by other religions are false?What evidence do you have that all of "this" is not random (without what you believe or is written in a book) ?
@jdale1 but u have Done that very thing, sir. u discredit EVERYTHING. NOTHING will satisfy u as long as ur comfortable. My faith will take me among the poor, the rich, the educated, the illeterate, and anyone who NEEDS to hear the Gospel (Good News) of the love of Christ Jesus, My Lord. right ur Heart's darkened. u can't see what's right in front of u. i pray that u will Search and Find Truth before it's too late. cont.
@UnexpectedWonder Well, you're not making much sense when it comes to your definition of "skeptisim". What exactly was the method you used toi discredit other religions and other Gods? What was the irrefultable proof that they are false? You dismiss other religions proof and accept your beliefs as facts. The difference between you and I is that, I seek to understand the world around me and don't limit what the results are no matter if what I believe is true or what the evidence proves to be true
@jdale1 i'm not Limiting anything. i say i Need as much Proof as u do. see? u've labeled from the Moment this discussion began. all i ask is 4 Non-believers to prove Me wrong with Legit evidence. i've found None. i'm not going 2 abandon what experience has taught Me 2 be True off of some hearsay. that's right i said it. EXPERIENCE and HEARSAY. there's a reason many don't listen 2 Atheism. u give NO Alternative 2 any belief. u just "disbelieve". the "religious" won't ever buy that load of BS.
@UnexpectedWonder Again, you are asking us or me to prove to you with legitament evidence. Again, I or "we" or not making a claim, you are. You have a burden of proof. I am not asserting there is no God, I reject your claims because they have not met the burden of proof. You are assuming "God did it" because the earth is on an axis, there is air to breath, etc. None of that proves there is a creator. It also doesn't prove there isn't. You are limiting because everything must go back to
@jdale1 clarify "burden of proof" please. that was a taste of "tangible evidence". huh...where r ur Critical Thinking skills? if the earth is that Intricate how can it come by Random Chance?
Burden of proof is a philosophic concept of skepticism. Nothing should be believed which is not evident. If I say I have a dragon in my garage, you will not believe me. I have not met the burden to prove my claim. If I take you to my garage and open it up and there's a large winged reptilian beast which exhales incandescent flammable gass, I have met my burden of proof. If I take open it and you ask where the dragon is, and I say you have to believe in the dragon... I have not.
@rkyeun i'm not saying another Universe exists. personally, i don't believe Parallel Universes can exist. there goes personal responsibility for one's own actions. Yes. Invisible 2 the naked eye. i mentioned not residing in the Normal Universe. what i mean by that is being held by the normal binds of physical characteristics: aging, mortal bodies, disease, finite minds, etc.
You want to posit your spiritual unknown realm as true, and claim that since it is not physical there can be no test which would come out differently if your proposition were true and if it were false. No facet, feature, history, future, or single particle interaction anywhere in the universe, including the physical electrical thoughts pulsing through your brainmeat, can ever be affected by your hypothetical construct. This makes it not a part of reality.
@rkyeun it depends on how one defines Reality and hypothetical. i'm not against the use of Science 2 be perfectly honest with u. i'm not saying not to be Logical and not to think critical. i'm saying, "Let's be honest with ourselves." I believe most Atheists on Youtube are actually Agnostic, for the are not cancelling out the factor for the existence of a deity. When i say Atheism is illogical, i'm talkin' True Atheism. again, i ask the question, "What is Reality?" is Reality only empirical?
@UnexpectedWonder "God did it". I don't make that connection, I don't limit myself to one source because what's in a book, a verse or faith. I keep searching for things than can actually be proven. If that search leads to a deity, so be it, but I won't limit it to a deity before the answers can be discovered. So your question is nonsensical to ask me to prove something when I haven't made a claim.
@jdale1 i Search, sir. i still haven't found all the answers i'm searching for. it's Impossible while alive. ur stuck on this "claim" Nonsense. that's beside the point BTW. i base My decision off of Reality and Practicality. Science has too much unsolved thory. i'm a Thinker and a Realist. i don't just postpone judgment because i've got an ego the size of Texas. u make Me wonder if u believe in Science as much as i believe in Christ. it's like a religion to u. God is My foundation 4 Morality.
@UnexpectedWonder "ur stuck on this "claim" Nonsense. that's beside the point BTW." No, it's precisely the point. You've made claim and have failed to provide logical evidence to support it. "u make Me wonder if u believe in Science as much as i believe in Christ." Which ever one makes the most logical sense and is able to proven beyond a shadow of a doubt will be the one Ichoose and base my beliefs and knowledge upon. I'd rather KNOW if my beliefs are true rather than guessing.
@jdale1 who says i'm guessing. i use the same information u do, but we come up with different conclusions. have u ever asked urself this question, "Why would the Creator need to prove Himself to His creation?" i mean seriously. u say u need Evidence, but what REALLY is ur reason 4 doubting? what if u find that God does in fact exist? will it change the way u view Life?
@UnexpectedWonder "who says i'm guessing." You recently listed things that you attributted to God. If you have no evidence to support these claims (you didn't provide any), that's a guess.
@UnexpectedWonder "Why would the Creator need to prove Himself to His creation?" Gee, I don't know-may be so noone would doubt it? "but what REALLY is ur reason 4 doubting?" For the last and final time-because there is NO evidence to support the claims for any deities existence, that doesn't mean I KNOW that one or two or three don't exist.
@UnexpectedWonder "what if u find that God does in fact exist? will it change the way u view Life?" Absolutely it would, only a fool would refuse to believe when the evidence is irrefutable. So would it change your life if all you believe in was false?
@jdale1 indeed. i would be No more. i'd commit Suicide. Christ saved My Life. i've almost drowned on numerous occasions. Certain individuals came into my life @ exactly the right time. Music was a major player. the example of Christ gives my life meaning and purpose.
@UnexpectedWonder Romans 1:28-30 "Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents."
@UnexpectedWonder Not only have you contridicted all of your previous statements, you are no longer making any sense. In one breath, you say the universe can't be random and the next you are still searching. So in regards to your reasoning for God's existence and "what he is responsiible for", are you now admitting your search for answers that God may possibly not be responisble for? Which is it? "it's Impossible while alive" LOL, try doing it while you're dead.
@jdale1 what i say is no contradiction. u misinterpret me. Yes, the Universe is not random. the Galaxies are bound 2gether. Solar sSystems are bound 2gether. each organism constantly is searching for Homeostasis. i don't Know everything there is 2 know in Life, so I will always search while I live. I'm a Thinker, thus I question, analyze, compute, and decipher within My head. i don't claim to know everything about God. No Human can. what is Death anyway? have u died and came 2 Life again?
@jdale1 that's between u and ur Maker, dude. we've all gotta see God Almighty, the only Fair and Just Judge, one day and give an account for all we have. Done. as i have said, if ur right, then i'm sittin' pretty. i've lived a Life to help others, and i die. that's all. if i'm right, then i'll be sittin' in Heaven, and u'll be tormented eternally 1st in Hell then after God judges all in the Lake of Fire that also possess brimstone.
@UnexpectedWonder I dismissed it because none of what you listed proves a deity exists. Just because the conditions are right doesn't prove there is a supernatural entity at work. Currently, we only know that earth is the only inhabitable planet. You want "God" to take credit/responsibility for all these things, and yet are willing to dismiss all of what we know as evidence for a deity. Your "God of the gaps" still leaves unanswered questions, but your rationale is to believe it until it's prov
@jdale1 even if the earth isn't the Only Inhabited planet and Alien Races exist, i won't lose any sleep. My God can do the Impossible by the terms of Man. i've Witnessed it personally. BUT if it turns out 2 be the ONLY Inhabitable Planet, then u can pretty much toss Random Chance out the window. DO the MATH! what r the chances that only 1 inhabitable Planet exists by Random Chance? Numbers don't lie, dude. i say the Theory of Evolution is so Mathematically Improbable that it's IMPOSSIBLE.
@UnexpectedWonder If can so easily dismiss other Gods, you should be able to understand why I dismiss yours. I use the same method that you used when you determined a disbelief in the Hindu Gods. In your case, you will continue to believe your God exists until it is proven incorrect. That's special pleasing for your God's existence. This is the opposite of being a "skeptic".
@jdale1 as i said, i was an Honest Skeptic. Learn, dude. there r 3 forms of Skepticism. 1. is the Honest Skeptic as myself. He is constinently questioning Life via introspection, debate like on here, discussions with others of different viewpoints, etc. u personally, but i speak on a plethora of topics from religion and politics to economics sports, and entertainment. 2. ur Average Skeptic. he is slightly different from an Agnostic 'cause he often wants more detail before a conclusion. cont.
@UnexpectedWonder 3. a Pure (often Dishonest) Skeptic. i doubt u've ever dealt with 1. u think i'm tough 2 talk 2? well, u've got another thing coming. this guy i'm talkin' about is theoretcial 2 ad nauseum. Pure Skeptic will pretty much accept nothing in the same way of most of the religious folk u speak of. often they have TOO much knowldge. as any who has a little Life Experience knows, too much knowledge without application or perverted becomes dangerous.
@UnexpectedWonder Not one of your answers proves the any deity exists. This is your faith not proof. Proof of your faith is to yourself, not to the rest of the world. I'm not looking for the "truths" that back up your faith. I'm looking for the real evidence that you base your faith on to the rest of the world. Christianity, no matter how you label it, is no different than any other religion.
@jdale1 ummm...r u just BLIND, or Straight up stubborn? is it even worth it 2 discuss with u? u ask 4 Proof (tangible proof i might add). when i display some, u already dismiss it without simple Logical regard. sir, ur WORSE than the "religious folk" u put on blast. ur what Scripture talks about. ur just like the Pharisees and worse. cont.
@UnexpectedWonder Romans 1:21-22 "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools." Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good." what is the standard for Morality?
@UnexpectedWonder no middle position for me. I admit I could be wrong but, your reasoning for God's existence is enough for me to disbelieve any possibilities that your claims are true until you present demonstrable, tangible evidence that support your claim.
@UnexpectedWonder In reference to the claims you are making? Absolutely the evidence should be tangible and demonstrable. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Let's review what you have listed. The flood- forget what the Bible "says" or what you believe. Account for civilizations that were supposed to be dead that never mention it. You mentioned Romans a few times. Many biblical scholars believe the writings to be a forgery, what evidence is absolute?
@jdale1 Romans? the epistle of Paul? what does forgery change? his Style is similar 2 every other Epistle accredited 2 him. What does the Message of Romans teach? it's that simple. have we become so "educated" as a Race as 2 forget Practicality 2 Real Life?
@UnexpectedWonder You said that you know the Bible is true based on science, history and everyday life. Nearly all religious manuscripts make the same claim. Why does the Bible carry more weight? The Quran, the Gita etc. why so quick to dismiss their writings or their claims of the existence of multiple gods? "The evidence is all around us" Narrow that down. Give one example that is proof positive of any deity's existence. Outside of the Bible, what do we have for accurate verification in
@jdale1 let Me just use the earth. 1. Lightning strikes just the right amount of times. 2. Earth is tilted on EXACTLY the right axis. 3. Earth is the PERFECT distance from the sun. 4. The sun is the only type of star that is known to support life. 5. Earth is the ONLY known habitable planet in the UNIVERSE. 6. The Nitrogen-Oxygen level is just right. 7. Earth is the ONLY known planet to have such vast amounts of liquid water. Need i go on?
@UnexpectedWonder written history? 'Science can't deal with the supernatural" does the supernatural really exist? So, to you if science can't answer a question, it's supernatural therefor God did it? So if and when science answers a question to be 100% accurate, do you chalk that one off and move to the next and claim God did it because science can't answer it? Earlier, you called yourself a skeptic. Your reasoning is nothing how a skeptic looks at things.
@jdale1 i am a Skeptic, but i'm an Honest Skeptic. i have seen proof of the workings of Christ in people's lives, namely Mine. i could spend hours telling one story after another. just 2 let u know, i should be DEAD several times over. Miracles do exist. this reminds what Jesus had 2 go thru with the people of His day.
@UnexpectedWonder You have accepted your claims and beliefs as "facts". You believe in something until it's proven false. You are quick to dismiss other religions and their claims and accuse them of not doing their research. Why are you a Christian? Did you research all the other religions, found them to be inaccurate and decide Christianity was the way to go?
@jdale1 Yes, i did Research ALL other Religions @ age 14. thanks 4 asking. :) i'm a Man who is in search of Real Truths in Life. i always have been. let Me boil it down 2 u this way.True Christianity as is in the Bible ain't a religion. Religions r man-made attempts 2 get 2 God. God Almighty in the human form of the God-man, Jesus the Christ, came down 2 Earth, lived a perfect life, died the worst possible Death, and rose 2 defeat Death and Hell. it's about a Renewed Relationship with God.
@UnexpectedWonder This is all the more reason why Atheists think the way they do. You make a positive claim and have a burden of proof. I respond to your claim by saying I don't believe you. I can't say that you are wrong, but you and other believers are 100% positive that we are wrong. It's fine to believe that we are wrong, but we are not the ones making claims (well, some proposed "Atheists" are but they have as much of a burden of proof as you do).
@jdale1 well, think about this thought. it helped Nail the Coffin shut 4 Me. if ur right, then i just die, and that's All. if i'm right, then y'all will be suffering 4 the Rest of Eternity. i'm like Christ in this aspect. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." Hell is blazing, mostly, and indescribable really. the Lake of Fire...i don't even WANT 2 know.
@UnexpectedWonder "an Atheist MUST say there is no God" Correct. But it's the lack of belief based on positive claims that there is a God. An assertion of knowledge that there is no God is the same positive claim that there is a God. Both positions require evidence. An agnostic position would be the belief or reasoning is possible, but there are doubts. I don't believe any of the claims are even possible, until it's proven the claim(s) are true. They are either true or they are false. There is
Egyptians and Mesopotamians.I think that it is interesting that many cultures have written about their own "flood" or how their "God" destroyed their civilization, even more interesting is how some give an entirely different time that seems to contradict "Noah's Flood".
Many biblical scholars believe that the flood was local and not global and that this is supported by the Bible. They believe that the idea of a global flood is a misinterpretation of the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament. This has important implications. It makes it easier to explain;
No need to explain where the water came from and where it went after the flood.
Noah only needed to bring the animals necessary to repopulate the local region.
wouldn't use this kind of thinking in everyday life, why make an exception? You wouldn't buy a car, a house or make any other major decision in your life this way.
@UnexpectedWonder "Science by it's definition CANNOT deal with the supernatural" Special pleading. In a nutshell; for lack of a better reason or answer, let's label it something that science can't solve or better yet we won't understand if it fell out the sky and landed in our lap. That way instead of looking at it objectively with scrutiny and common sense (like we do with everything else in our lives) we'll just it the exception and hope it or have faith that it's true. If a person wouldn't
Pascal's wager = Fail. since a god will know your just believing because you want to go to Heaven & avoid hell.
Belief = Fail. A god that punishes intellectual honesty and rewards gullibility is not a god worth worshipping.
simply put, it is more important to be a good/moral/loving/tolerent/intelligent/logical person, than to "belive" AND IF A GOD TRUELY EXISTS then he would be an intelligent fellow & would not care if you believed or not, but simply were those good things.
@UnexpectedWonder Atheists and Agnostics do not have a problem with believers and or scripture. They are just responding to a positive claim which has not met the burden of proof. The institutions of science and history does not care about one's beliefs, for good reason. Can you provide one example where either has authenticated any of your beliefs or where any of the obscene acts has been accepted by the scientific community?
@jdale1 u say Atheists have No problem with Theists. Really?! have u checked out many of these Videos and seen some of the Nasty comments ur Fellow Atheists have left and attacked People with? i don't Mind y'all, but apparently in most cases there is No Neutral Zone. many Atheists want the Eradication of Christianity @ all costs. from what i've seen and heard, Atheists make more claims than we do. u say u Need Proof. what is the Basis that can Support Atheism, and what does 1 gain from Atheism?
@UnexpectedWonder Well, okay I should have said not all Atheists. But there are just as many nasty videos from Christians and other believers on the internet as well. Like Christians, if an Atheists make an extraordinary claims, than I expect them as well to present the evidence to support the claim. "God does not exist"; positive claim involving some form of knowledge-what evidence do you have? gnostic Atheists make these claims all the time. The hosts of AE, have stated numerous times that
@UnexpectedWonder that they are not certain that God does not exist, they base that on positive claims made by believers and Christians for their disbelief. The entire basis that supports Atheism is a response to a positive claim. That's all it is. What is there to gain from Atheism? Does there have to be? Is there a problem with disbelieving something until it's proven true? I would say you would have something to gain to "disprove" your disbelief.
@jdale1 u say Atheists have No problem with Theists. Really?! have u checked out many of these Videos and seen some of the Nasty comments ur Fellow Atheists have left and attacked People with? i don't Mind y'all, but apparently in most cases there is No Neutral Zone. many Atheists want the Eradication of Christianity @ all costs. from what i've seen and heard, Atheists make more claims than we do. u say u Need Proof. what is the Basis that can Support Atheism, and what does 1 gain from Atheism?
@UnexpectedWonder You are a person who believes in something until it's proven false. Hardly the behavior of someone who is skeptical. Based on your own words, you don't need tangible, demonstrable evidence to believe your convictions are true. If the Bible is as true as you say it to be, and based on the reasons you illustrated, the Gita and the Quran are just as authentic. That being the case, why are you a Christian and not a Muslim?
@jdale1 sir, u Misunderstand Me. i said i base My Beliefs off of Proof. u ask y i'm not a Muslim? tell Me how much u Know about Islam. it'll be easier 2 Careful, if i Understand what u know.
@UnexpectedWonder "sir, u Misunderstand Me. i said i base My Beliefs off of Proof." Perhaps I did misunderstand you. So are you making an exception for your belief in God and special pleading? Or were you speaking for all of your beliefs that are based on truth? If it's the same for your belief in God, what evidence do you have for that belief? Is this belief founded by some form of knowledge? I can say I believe that aliens exist without presenting evidence by saying I don't claim to know they
@UnexpectedWonder they exist, but I believe it's plausible that they do. So when you say that your belief is based on proof, does that mean your belief in God is based on proof? If so what is the proof or knowledge you posses that your belief is accurate and correct? The question as to why you are a Christian and not a Muslim has nothing to do with what I know about either religion, it's irrelevant. You would just have to say I'm a Christian because........ and not a Muslim because........
@jdale1 Look. this is what i say about Myself. i am a Skeptic of ALL, everyone and everything. i'm Interested solely into the Real Truths of Life, not that Sugarcoated, Superficial BS that most r into these Days, as represented by MOST of 2day's Music. i base my beliefs off of Proven Institutions (Science, History, and everyday life to name a few), which is y i KNOW that the Bible is True. Many Atheists seem 2 have a Problem with the Obscene Acts in Scripture...
@UnexpectedWonder 2 Me, that proves it's Relatable and Authentic. Adam chooses his Wife over obedience 2 God. Noah gets drunk and naked, and his son walks in on him and tells his 2 bros. Abram lies about his about his wife Sarai ONLY being his sister. Aaron, the High Priest makes a Golden Calf because the people pressure him 2 do so. Moses strikes a Rock in Anger because of the people in Direct disobedience 2 God's Command. Solomon gets 700 wives & 300 concubines. the List goes on and on.
@UnexpectedWonder You said for me to show you lies in the bible and specific contradictions? I shall try, but I have a feeling that you will not hear them out. Let's begin with the lie that god is omnibenevolent. This is contradicted by the flood of Noah. Your God didn't even try to reason with mankind before he decided to destroy them all and the animals with them. Also, the flood of Noah has been shown to have never occurred/ We have no geological evidence of it. And we would had it happened
@atheistjacob Nay, bro. My God ALWAYS saves a Remnant of the Righteous. Look! there ARE Consequences 4 Actions. Punishment is expected 2 come. My God has much Patience, but eventually people WILL Reap what they Sow. Think about it. if u go 30 mph over the Speed Limit and those Red and Blue lights stop u, then u have No one 2 Blame but urself. if a Child continually disobeys, then any good Parent will have 2 discipline him. sir, it depends on what u consider "Evidence" 'cause it's all around us.
@UnexpectedWonder Oh enlighten me then. And are you saying that the genocied of all but eight people and the subsequent INCEST (which is a sin in your bible) are both ok if its God doing it and not man? Because if you are, you need to be locked up. But present me with evidence of the flood, I will analyze it, and I will come to a conclusion based on an objective analysis of your evidence.
@atheistjacob where is Incest involved? There were 8 people onboard the Ark. Noah, his wife, his 3 sons, and his 3 daughters-in-law. u Know how Oil is made Correct?
@UnexpectedWonder If Noah and his family were the only one's saved, his family of course meaning the people you mentioned, then Noah's grandchildren would have had to commit incest to repopulate the Earth. But I do notice that you managed to avoid my question. You should probably answer it.
@atheistjacob obviously, incest incest would have had 2 happen, even if ur Evolution is Correct. the Gene Pool wasn't as polluted or Vast back then. i didn't avoid ur Question. i asked if u knew a Simple Biological Concept. Oil is made because Massive amounts of pressure crushed Marine Animals. if that's the case, then how is there so much Oil in the Desert? there's more evidence as well, but let's be Honest with ourselves. Science by its definition CANNOT deal with the Supernatural.
@UnexpectedWonder Actually, incest is necessarily required for evolution. Or at the very least, not in the extreme that it is for religion. Evolution would allow for a bit of genetic variation among most of the mates of the past where as your religion does, in fact, not. But the fact that oil is found in such great quantities in the desert can be seen as a support for evolution as it can be used as evidence that some marine animals did in fact walk on land at one point, so this is moot.
@atheistjacob And I do accept that science cannot deal with the supernatural. At least in part. There are, I believe, certain things that can be done or said scientifically to strengthen the claims of a supernatural, the problem is no one has ever tried. People try to use circular logic and obvious forgeries to try to strengthen their claims. But you do a great job of defending your faith. Even when I was deliberately trying to trip you up by using attacks on your god.
@atheistjacob But either way, I am an atheist and an anti theist. So I believe that even if your God exists, he is inherently evil and deserves not to be worshiped but to be overthrown. I only wish I had the characters to explain the evolution of modern Judaism, from which I'm sure you know, Christianity came. If you would like to continue debating, please give me a topic. Otherwise, good day to you sir.
@atheistjacob i don't Understand ur Point on Incest. if u r Referring 2 the Mosaic Law, there were Millions of People omn Earth even in those days. as u know Incest causes Genetic Mutations after a few Generations. Most mutations r malign in nature, so what is ur Point? as i sadi the Gene Pool in the Days after Noah wasn't really tainted. what is ur Hypothesis of how Pangea broke up? u say SOME Marine Animals, but were there enough Marine animals 2 produce BILLIONS of gallons of oil?
@UnexpectedWonder If the flood actually happened and Noah was the only person saved, like the Bible says, then modern man would not exist today. Pangea broke up by something called plate tectonics. And as there were about five billion species on Earth around 4,000 years ago, it is very likely. More likely, at least, than the flood.
@atheistjacob as i said before Noah wasn't alone. he had his wife, 3 sons, and his daughters-in-law. how would Man NOT exist 2day? i believe in Plate Techtonics, but i don't the theory that it was the Initial Break. here r My reasons y. 1. the Continents fit almost Too perfectly. 2. y is there SUCH a large Gap between North America and Asia (the North Pacific)? 3. Islands and Hills have been Observed 2 appear practically Overnight. 4. i have an Issue with a Change of Universal Weather 2 Climates
@UnexpectedWonder "as i said before Noah wasn't alone, he had his wife, 3 sons, and his daughters-in-law. how would man NOT exist 2day?" -Well the real question here for YOU to answer is if the only people left on Earth were Noah and family where did all of the different races of people come from (since you aren't a fan of random mutation or evolution)? Shouldn't we all look like Noah and family?
@jbclark61 we do, Man. u see. i agree with Micro-evolution, Adaptation, and Natural Selection, which we see everyday as well as being a Pillar of Biology. i don't agree with Random Mutation simple because almost ALL Mutations r Lethal. those that do occur r rarely Hereditary. Now, there Races of People, but ONLY species of Mankind. i believe the Peoples of Earth migrated out of the Fertile Crescant and Adapted to their Environments.
@UnexpectedWonder it's simple really. Blacks/Darker Races are in the South (Africa and Australia) because of the Sun. Whites/Caucasians in the North (Europe and Northern Asia) because of less Sunlight and Long, Cold Winters. Browns/The Middle Races take up the Middle East and most of Polynesia and Ocenia. Redmen took to the West (the Americas) and Yellowmen took to the East (the Orient and Sotheast Asia). then, Isolationism occured. Rare acceptions like Imperial Asian families don't count.
@UnexpectedWonder "I don't agree with Random Mutation simple because almost ALL mutations r Lethal." - Sorry, but I'm afraid not. There are point mutations-Silent mutations: which code for the same amino acid.
Missense mutations: which code for a different amino acid.
Nonsense mutations: which code for a stop and can truncate the protein. Insertions add one or more extra nucleotides into the DNA. Deletions remove one or more nucleotides from the DNA. .. these aren't necessarily "lethal".
@UnexpectedWonder cont. Going back to original point of your "Noah story"....Biblical timelines put this "global flood of Noah" as occurring somewhere between 4200-4300 years ago...again the problem with this story is that we have both written and archeaological evidence showing clearly dozens of civilizations with unbroken history going way back before and after this "flood". Minoan, Phenecians, People of Indus Valley, all were thriving during this period of time and report no flood.
@jbclark61 sir, give Me a Historian who Verifies the Dates of the Flood. as far as i Know, we still say Abraham live @ 4000-5000 years ago. i suggest u get ur Stats right and updated. Abraham came WAY after Noah BTW.
@UnexpectedWonder "sir, give Me a Historian who Verifies the Dates of the Flood." - OK...according to the Ussher chronology, the Flood was in 2348 BC. The creationist website "Answers In Genesis" says, "The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC +/- 11 years." I can give you many more if you like, but again the point is that based on biblical historians the flood was supposed have happened 4300 years ago and we know for a fact dozens of civilizations that report no such thing.
@UnexpectedWonder And speaking of species and migration can you explain how it is that if all of the animals of the earth were saved on the Ark of Noah how did the indigenous species get to their repective homes from an Ark in the middle East?...for example how did the kangaroos get to Australia?...hippity hop across the ocean? Or polar bears to the artic circle, or penguins to Antartica? Also if there were on a couple of each species of carnivore (wolf, tiger, lion) what did they eat?
@jbclark61 sir, i've gotta ask. r u Seriously Retarted? u believe in Pangea don't u? Polar bears and kangaroos? do u not Understand something called Adaptation 2 ur Environment? plus, certain Animals were brought along 2 Islands and such by Humans. huh...now, ur just talkin' Ignorantly.
@UnexpectedWonder "u believe in Pangea don't u?" - Yes, but it began breaking into the various continents during the Mesazoic period some 200 million years ago and by the time of the supposed "global flood of Noah" all continents were seperated just as they are today (roughly). ...Let me point out that if you are going to call me "seriously retarted" you should first learn how to spell "retarded" so you don't look so "retarded" yourself. Maybe, your critical thinking skills will improve with age
@jbclark61 1st of all, that was My Bad. i was tired when i wrote the Comment. Secondly, u question My Critical Skills. ok Tough Guy. now, u've kinda pissed Me off. WHERE is ur Evidence that Pangea broke up 200 million years ago, or r u just relying on some vague theory? u've given ZERO proof that the Flood didn't occur. Oh, and what reason should i be an Atheist? what's the POINT of Atheism?
@UnexpectedWonder "what's the POINT of Atheism?" The entire point of Atheism is a response to a positive claim, not an assertion that a deity does not exist. When an Atheist or anybody states they disbelieve in something, they don't have to provide evidence that their disbelief is true. They respond to a claim made by someone who fails to provide evidence/validation that their claim is true. Saying that you disbelieve in God is not the same as saying God does not exist.
@jdale1 Dude, do u Understand the word Atheist comes from the Greek? u guys Need 2 use New Terminology 'cause the Greek translation is a-"not" or "no" and theos-"God". by Definition, an Atheist MUST say there is no God. @ best i say ur either an Agnostic or Skeptic, sir, as well as those who share the same Tecnical view as u.
@UnexpectedWonder "God does not exist" is as much a positive claim that 'God does exist". The statement comes from knowledge at which a requirement of proof that the statement is correct is expected. In the case of the "flood" I respond by saying I don't believe you, it doesn't matter if my disbelief is true or not because I don't have justify my disbelief. My disbelief becomes validated if you cannot provide evidence to support your claim.
@UnexpectedWonder "WHERE is ur Evidence that Pangea broke up 200 million years ago,.." - You know, when I want legal advice I don't go to my plumber, when I want medical advice I don't ask my carpenter, when I want advice about geology I don't consult the Bible....when you develope some critical thinking skills maybe you will catch on to this concept: ). cont.
@UnexpectedWonder cont. "u've given ZERO proof that the flood didn't occur." If the flood happened 4300 years ago and killed everyone on earth accept Noah and zoo, why is there written documented and archeaological proof of entire civilizations existed before during and after said time...like people of Indus Valley, Minoans, Phenecians, or even the Chinese? Looks like proof to me." Oh, and what reason should i be an Atheist?" I don't know.
@jbclark61 WHO says the Flood happened 4300 years ago? uh...i always Learned that Abraham lived 4000-5000 years ago. in fact fact Moses existed almost 4000 years ago. hello? this is Basic History, dude.
@UnexpectedWonder "what's the POINT of Atheism?" - When you were 3 years old did you have a "belief" in gravity? If you are like most people the answer would be, no, I had no idea what gravity was hence you were "atheist" concerning gravity. What was the POINT of this disbelief? When you answer this question then you will have the answer to the question you posed to me.
@rkyeun What is Truth? what is the standard for Truth? how does one go about proving something to be ABSOLUTELY False? is Truth subjective or objective? Convince Me to forfeit My Faith and choose Atheism. i have said and will ALWAYS say, "If someone is able to Prove through Science, History, Philosophy, etc. that there is no God and that Jesus is NOT the Son of God, then i will become an Atheist INSTANTLY." i am Certain and have that much Confidence that it is IMPOSSIBLE to provide such Proof.
Truth is that which causes contradiction if its negation is accepted. The standard is the logical proof or the experimental observation. To prove something absolutely false, you test it while recording your methods and results, and observe something that must not happen if your assumption is true. Truth is objective and reality is its arbiter. The experiment is a question asked. The experimental observation is the answer. What is observed is the truth, provided by reality.
@rkyeun that's a Beautiful definition. how does ur definition of Truth apply 2 the Concept of God, Ethics, Morals, Justice, and Consciousness. None of them r truly experimental. how can u Prove which is True and which is False? What is Reality anyway? how can u make sure an Experiment isn't flawed in anyway outside of a Laboratory setting?
If an experiment is flawed, then it asks a question slightly different than the one that was intended. The answer to that different question is still true, it just may take us a while to catch what question we actually asked. This is why science engages in peer review. How we asked our questions and what answers we got are stored forever, for everyone to look at, so if there are errors they will eventually be caught.
Sometimes when I perform an experiment I already have a strong idea of what the result should be. Sometimes I am wrong and something entirely different happens. Reality is a body of knowledge that my understanding did not match. I may hold certain things to be true or false. When I disagree with reality I am wrong. Reality will blindly refuse to operate according to my false assumptions, indifferent to and unaware of my opinions. Things are already true or false in reality.
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@whoisfettel "the reason why stoning is no longer permitted is because christians are now operating under the new covenant. This where jesus pretty much comes in."
No, Matt 5:19 is where JC comes in: "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands [in the Mosaic Law] and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..."
JC did NOT come to abolish the Law; he required his followers to be super-observant of it. And that includes MANDATORY stoning.
lease2coach1 6 days ago
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@whoisfettel "the reason why stoning is no longer permitted is because christians are now operating under the new covenant. This where jesus pretty much comes in."
No, Matt 5:19 is where JC comes in: "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands [in the Mosaic Law] and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..."
JC did NOT come to abolish the Law; he required his followers to be super-observant of it. And that includes MANDATORY stoning.
lease2coach1 6 days ago
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Refuting Pascal's Wager (PW), briefly:
1) Can people *choose* to believe something? They can choose to *act* as though they believe, but wouldn't an omniscient deity see through that?
2) PW assumes there's only one possible "god"/religion to believe in--but mankind has worshipped many 1000s. How can you know that *yours* is the right/only one?
3) It's hardly true that "nothing's lost" in believing: time, money, FREEDOM are lost.
4) PW relies on *fear of pain*--a poor ad for a "loving god"!
lease2coach1 6 days ago
Its funny how they belive in no God but live theyre life talking about God haha God obviously plays a hudge role in their life Either way! Lol God bless everyone Amen.
alondrabixch209 1 week ago
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Evoker21 5 days ago
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@alondrabixch209
It gives voice to all other Atheists, lets them know that they are not the only ones. It also provides a service for logical thinkers in an majority christian society. Also debating is fun for some people.
Evoker21 5 days ago
Shame on these people. Why do they need they feel they need to promote there atheism to discredit believers in god? Wether your muslim, christian or jewish, it doesnt matter. At least you believe. I am neither muslim, christian nor jew, but i do read the bible and my faith in God stems far greater than these satanic preachers can ever imagine. What can you lose by believing in god? your pride? Is it not cool enough these days???
KalinskiDJ 3 weeks ago
@KalinskiDJ It's an athiest show, he called in, he got the athiest point of view. There are plenty of christian shows with the same format where those people talk about their own beleifs and I'm sure they would do the same to an athiest caller wich is to debate their stance on their beleif.
Daugueffxi 3 weeks ago
@KalinskiDJ Why does every religion convert people to its faith? Because people need to prove their point of view is the right one. Atheism is a religion as much as any other. It is a belief system that promotes not believing in god. And as such it is as much bullshit as any other religion and those who promote it are full of shit preachers just like any other preacher.
yarpen800 2 weeks ago
@yarpen800 It is not a religion, you are saying it is the belief that does not believe in a God. It is simply a lack of a belief in all Gods, not any particular one. All of them. WE have no scriptures, no dogma, no holy lands, no temples or churches.
333MJH 2 weeks ago
@yarpen800 I will explain this slowly and simply to you. as stated by the lady on this show neither theists or atheists have proof that a god/s created the universe. the probability however is somewhat different. it can be certain that current religions are man made and that those gods are definately false.
jjcrazi 2 weeks ago
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What if Atheists are wrong? Are you not understanding the concept? Atheists are people who don't believe because it hasn't been presented to them. It's like me opening my hand with nothing in it, then you replying "I don't see anything." Then me replying "hahaha, you're stupid! There's an alien in my hand! He created you! But, he can't stop you from killing, cure cancer, aids, hunger, war, earthquakes, lightning, lupus,famine, cirrhosis, etc., but he's the almighty!" You are retarded
CALICOTV301 1 month ago
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CALICOTV301 1 month ago
I personally want to thank every Atheist out there. You have no idea how you have blessed the church, which in my opinion was starting to choke. You (and your radical ideology) has infused new life into it. I'm beginning to see people flowing back into the pews, many confessing it was people like you who got them to thinking. So from the bottom of my heart I want to thank each of you. And if you'll allow me a bit of humor...God bless you!
KinaNafasi 1 month ago
@KinaNafasi: The church is still choking. Slowly, into oblivion.
chinopisces 3 weeks ago
@chinopisces Dont count on it. But your entitled to your opinion.
KinaNafasi 3 weeks ago
@KinaNafasi: I don't have time to waste 'counting on it'. Truth is, the church is slowly receding in its influential power because more rational individuals are not being convinced by their 'evidence' that christian theology (which is not a science) is factual.
chinopisces 3 weeks ago
@chinopisces Power comes and goes as you are well aware. But the church and its beliefs have never derived its power and influence from some claim to science. Its power comes from a dynamic belief in what can't be explained by any natural or scientific explanation. This belief is manifesting itself in different ways then the traditional way you are use to; outreach has increased and more is getting done. And we owe it all to you atheist. So again i say. God bless you for all your help.
KinaNafasi 3 weeks ago
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@KinaNafasi: "But the church and its beliefs have never derived its power and influence from some claim to science."
This is precisely why it has no real credibility. Science is based on reality, as opposed to super-naturalism, which isn't even proven to exist.
"Its power comes from a dynamic belief in what can't be explained by any natural or scientific explanation."
Then how do you expect us to take your claims seriously if you can't explain it?
Your notions are ridiculous. Begone.
chinopisces 3 weeks ago
lol
"no it's.... ok, I don't know *nervous chuckle*.
tyler73074 1 month ago
well if we're wrong we get to become hellspawns and fight in the devils army to bring down god that dont sound too bad to me
Lizardvenom1 1 month ago
wow that was the first thiest, that was the least bit rational...
raytheauthor 1 month ago
@raytheauthor
I like that kind of persons, you could hear that he really thinked. And thinking is always a good thing.
gurkfisk89 1 month ago 2
@gurkfisk89 Indeed.
sargentaaron2004 1 month ago
@SoViciousOh Thanks.
Strangerinasland 1 month ago
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These videos never amuse me, every person calling is narrow minded and obviously haven't explored much on religion or philosophy in general. I can't see what having these completely one sided debates do for the viewer at all, except for maybe reinforce a proud atheist.
TheologicVsWorld 1 month ago
Good humored theist about as rare as a good Samaritan.
tamerseeker 2 months ago
@ImposingAtheist
Dr. Seuss makes perfect sense when you're high.
Yallniggasbetrollin 2 months ago
@ImposingAtheist I do not like heaven eggs & hell ham. I do not like it, God I Am.
Strangerinasland 2 months ago 2
lol Yahushua changed the "stoning" part. He introduced FORGIVENESS :o
XxAdamJxX 2 months ago
To whom do you expect these people to go to?..only Jesus Christ has the words that give eternal life: John 7,..Its already been said that this things will happen,when the leaves of a tree come out, you know without being told that summer is near..Dont let this people mislead you.
manaseful1 2 months ago
Hahahahaaha.... silly theist
Draidis 3 months ago 9
Pascal's wager part 2:
Choose your god wisely, because you'll go to the hells of all the other gods.
crapatev 3 months ago 26
god makes me lol
jmabate1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder By revealing itself. Etc
jdale1 3 months ago
@mustangpassurchevy "Otherwise you just don't know do you?" That's the point they are making. Atheism is the rejection of positive claims for God's existence, not an assertion that there is in fact no God. Your idea of praying every night for God to revealing himself and failing to do so, would not be proof of God's non-existence.
jdale1 3 months ago
The problem is they picked someone who doesn’t even know the bible to debate against three people who have no boundaries. I say they can prove one way or another if there is a God. All they have to do is pray every night a small prayer. “If there is a God for Him to show Himself to me“ It only takes 20 seconds a night. Do it for a year. If nothing happens then and only then you have a argument. Otherwise you just don’t know do you?
mustangpassurchevy 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Again, making Atheism out to be something that it's not. Rejecting your claims for God is not an assertion that there is no God. It's questioning the claims made by man for the existence of God. The next time someone tells you God doesn't exist, ask them to prove it.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 I HAVE BEEN! damn, ur Slow. i don't think ur a True Atheist. most Atheists on Youtube i genuinely believe r Agnostics who don't want 2 admit. Atheism declares, "There is no god." Agnosticism declares, "We cannot know if there is or is not a god." it's that simple, dude.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "I HAVE BEEN! damn" You have been what? "i don't think ur a True Atheist" By your own definition, you have made it abundantly clear that you do not understand what Atheism is. "most Atheists on Youtube i genuinely believe r Agnostics" A majority of them do not know or understand the meaning. "Atheism declares, "There is no god." That would be making a positive claim, just as you saying "There is a god". If I said, "There is no god", my claim that there isn't requires evidence.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder I do not believe in god, I don't claim to know there is no god. Atheism is the lack of belief. I reject your claim that god exists, because your claims for a deity's existence have not met a burden of proof. I don't have to provide evidence that my disbelief is "true", my disbelief is validated because you have failed to present evidence to support your claim. It's as simple as that, DUDE.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 ok. Understood. what specific evidence can be delivered 2 u that would Proove that a God does in fact exist?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder You would really kill yourself if it proven that God didn't exist and you call Atheism ignorant? You don't need God then, you need to have your head examined.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 it wasn't the answer u were expectting now was it? i Think outside the box. i suggest u do it too. u say i should have my head checked, yet i can talk clearly, logically, scientifically, historically, and philosophically about the existence of a deity. u don't KNOW My Life story. i have a reason for my claim. u, sir, have forgotten the Human Element. without Christ, i literally wouldn't be discussing with u; i'd have long since committed suicide. what do u have 2 say 2 that?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "it wasn't the answer u were expectting now was it?" Surprised yes, that all this world has to offer that you would kill yourself if you discovered God didn't exist. How selfish. Do you not have family or friends, what about their lives without you? All you have and currently know is the life you live now, live that to the fullest. I'm glad that you found someone or something to save you. It's fine if you want to credit that to God, but give yourself some credit for dealing
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder with tough times. "yet i can talk clearly, logically, scientifically, historically, and philosophically" It would be nice to see you add English to that list. "u don't KNOW My Life story" You're right I don't. You seem to throw arounf the assumptions and accusations to other quite freely here though. "i have a reason for my claim" reason and proof are too different things. If it is faith in God you have, I can't touch you, end of discussion. Your faith is not proof though.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder If faith were proof, than any deity proclaimed by any religion is just as "real" as yours.
"what do u have 2 say 2 that?" I have never believed so your question is nonsensical.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
If I were /actually/ curious about the answers to those questions, my first step might be Wikipedia's articles on those two phenomena. You /know/ there are in fact such tests, which is why those objects are presumed. Science is based on those tests. There is no object in science which is not the result of such a test. You CANNOT extend those "hypothetical circumstances" into infinite scenarios, because the circumstances are NOT HYPOTHETICAL, they are ACTUAL and PUBLISHED.
rkyeun 3 months ago
@rkyeun Published findings are like a river, constantly rushing by us. Not saying they r not Valid though. My point was this. we can neither create Black holes nor Anti-matter. in the same way, we can neither create Life, a soul, or consciousness. u get My drift. hell, we can't even create plasma or nuclear fusion. we can't understand what an Atom really is. what empirical evidence then can be gathered 2 ABSOLUTE justify the existence of God with such a finite method as is our present Science?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
Are you SURE we can't create antimatter?
Are you REALLY SURE?
Are you as sure of that as you are ABOUT YOUR GOD?
Are you sure we can't create plasma? Are you SURE we can't create fusion?
Would you like to perhaps ASK if we can, and how, and when it was first done before you make a TOTAL ass of yourself?
THIS is why science works, and religion does not. Published findings are not like a river. They are like a LANDSLIDE, constantly building, scouring the earth clean of falsehood.
rkyeun 3 months ago
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rkyeun 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder So if in your search for these "answers", will you be surprised to find something that a deity had nothing to do with?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 No. i won't. God is in control, but Humans have Free-will. My questions r usually about human action and irrational thaought. as i've said before and will say till i die, "If someone is able to show me evidence that is Scientific, Historical, Philosophical, etc. that God isn't Real and Jesus is not the Son of God, then I will become an Atheist INSTANTLY" that's how Confident and Certain i am that it will NEVER happen. No one has even come close. The explanations don't fill All Holes.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder But, that doesn't mean that we will never have an answer for it. Just because science won't answer something when it's convenient for you, saying that "God did it" is again answering out of ignorance.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Are you kidding me right now? If you need clarification of the term "burden of proof" you've lost your entire argument. How is it that you know other "Gods" claimed by other religions are false?What evidence do you have that all of "this" is not random (without what you believe or is written in a book) ?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 Design thru out the world. Logic teaches that if some idea is too improbable than disregard it.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder proven false. No use in debating you when you have already made up your mind.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 but u have Done that very thing, sir. u discredit EVERYTHING. NOTHING will satisfy u as long as ur comfortable. My faith will take me among the poor, the rich, the educated, the illeterate, and anyone who NEEDS to hear the Gospel (Good News) of the love of Christ Jesus, My Lord. right ur Heart's darkened. u can't see what's right in front of u. i pray that u will Search and Find Truth before it's too late. cont.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Well, you're not making much sense when it comes to your definition of "skeptisim". What exactly was the method you used toi discredit other religions and other Gods? What was the irrefultable proof that they are false? You dismiss other religions proof and accept your beliefs as facts. The difference between you and I is that, I seek to understand the world around me and don't limit what the results are no matter if what I believe is true or what the evidence proves to be true
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 i'm not Limiting anything. i say i Need as much Proof as u do. see? u've labeled from the Moment this discussion began. all i ask is 4 Non-believers to prove Me wrong with Legit evidence. i've found None. i'm not going 2 abandon what experience has taught Me 2 be True off of some hearsay. that's right i said it. EXPERIENCE and HEARSAY. there's a reason many don't listen 2 Atheism. u give NO Alternative 2 any belief. u just "disbelieve". the "religious" won't ever buy that load of BS.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Again, you are asking us or me to prove to you with legitament evidence. Again, I or "we" or not making a claim, you are. You have a burden of proof. I am not asserting there is no God, I reject your claims because they have not met the burden of proof. You are assuming "God did it" because the earth is on an axis, there is air to breath, etc. None of that proves there is a creator. It also doesn't prove there isn't. You are limiting because everything must go back to
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 clarify "burden of proof" please. that was a taste of "tangible evidence". huh...where r ur Critical Thinking skills? if the earth is that Intricate how can it come by Random Chance?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
Burden of proof is a philosophic concept of skepticism. Nothing should be believed which is not evident. If I say I have a dragon in my garage, you will not believe me. I have not met the burden to prove my claim. If I take you to my garage and open it up and there's a large winged reptilian beast which exhales incandescent flammable gass, I have met my burden of proof. If I take open it and you ask where the dragon is, and I say you have to believe in the dragon... I have not.
rkyeun 3 months ago
@rkyeun ok. i Understand, but in terms of the existence of God i have NOT said that He resides even with the normal Universe of matter.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
You have claimed to have an entire other universe not made of matter. Your dragon is invisible.
rkyeun 3 months ago
@rkyeun i'm not saying another Universe exists. personally, i don't believe Parallel Universes can exist. there goes personal responsibility for one's own actions. Yes. Invisible 2 the naked eye. i mentioned not residing in the Normal Universe. what i mean by that is being held by the normal binds of physical characteristics: aging, mortal bodies, disease, finite minds, etc.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
You want to posit your spiritual unknown realm as true, and claim that since it is not physical there can be no test which would come out differently if your proposition were true and if it were false. No facet, feature, history, future, or single particle interaction anywhere in the universe, including the physical electrical thoughts pulsing through your brainmeat, can ever be affected by your hypothetical construct. This makes it not a part of reality.
rkyeun 3 months ago
@rkyeun it depends on how one defines Reality and hypothetical. i'm not against the use of Science 2 be perfectly honest with u. i'm not saying not to be Logical and not to think critical. i'm saying, "Let's be honest with ourselves." I believe most Atheists on Youtube are actually Agnostic, for the are not cancelling out the factor for the existence of a deity. When i say Atheism is illogical, i'm talkin' True Atheism. again, i ask the question, "What is Reality?" is Reality only empirical?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "God did it". I don't make that connection, I don't limit myself to one source because what's in a book, a verse or faith. I keep searching for things than can actually be proven. If that search leads to a deity, so be it, but I won't limit it to a deity before the answers can be discovered. So your question is nonsensical to ask me to prove something when I haven't made a claim.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 i Search, sir. i still haven't found all the answers i'm searching for. it's Impossible while alive. ur stuck on this "claim" Nonsense. that's beside the point BTW. i base My decision off of Reality and Practicality. Science has too much unsolved thory. i'm a Thinker and a Realist. i don't just postpone judgment because i've got an ego the size of Texas. u make Me wonder if u believe in Science as much as i believe in Christ. it's like a religion to u. God is My foundation 4 Morality.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "ur stuck on this "claim" Nonsense. that's beside the point BTW." No, it's precisely the point. You've made claim and have failed to provide logical evidence to support it. "u make Me wonder if u believe in Science as much as i believe in Christ." Which ever one makes the most logical sense and is able to proven beyond a shadow of a doubt will be the one Ichoose and base my beliefs and knowledge upon. I'd rather KNOW if my beliefs are true rather than guessing.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 who says i'm guessing. i use the same information u do, but we come up with different conclusions. have u ever asked urself this question, "Why would the Creator need to prove Himself to His creation?" i mean seriously. u say u need Evidence, but what REALLY is ur reason 4 doubting? what if u find that God does in fact exist? will it change the way u view Life?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "who says i'm guessing." You recently listed things that you attributted to God. If you have no evidence to support these claims (you didn't provide any), that's a guess.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "Why would the Creator need to prove Himself to His creation?" Gee, I don't know-may be so noone would doubt it? "but what REALLY is ur reason 4 doubting?" For the last and final time-because there is NO evidence to support the claims for any deities existence, that doesn't mean I KNOW that one or two or three don't exist.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "what if u find that God does in fact exist? will it change the way u view Life?" Absolutely it would, only a fool would refuse to believe when the evidence is irrefutable. So would it change your life if all you believe in was false?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 indeed. i would be No more. i'd commit Suicide. Christ saved My Life. i've almost drowned on numerous occasions. Certain individuals came into my life @ exactly the right time. Music was a major player. the example of Christ gives my life meaning and purpose.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Romans 1:28-30 "Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents."
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Not only have you contridicted all of your previous statements, you are no longer making any sense. In one breath, you say the universe can't be random and the next you are still searching. So in regards to your reasoning for God's existence and "what he is responsiible for", are you now admitting your search for answers that God may possibly not be responisble for? Which is it? "it's Impossible while alive" LOL, try doing it while you're dead.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 what i say is no contradiction. u misinterpret me. Yes, the Universe is not random. the Galaxies are bound 2gether. Solar sSystems are bound 2gether. each organism constantly is searching for Homeostasis. i don't Know everything there is 2 know in Life, so I will always search while I live. I'm a Thinker, thus I question, analyze, compute, and decipher within My head. i don't claim to know everything about God. No Human can. what is Death anyway? have u died and came 2 Life again?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder And if I don't find the truth, what happens?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 that's between u and ur Maker, dude. we've all gotta see God Almighty, the only Fair and Just Judge, one day and give an account for all we have. Done. as i have said, if ur right, then i'm sittin' pretty. i've lived a Life to help others, and i die. that's all. if i'm right, then i'll be sittin' in Heaven, and u'll be tormented eternally 1st in Hell then after God judges all in the Lake of Fire that also possess brimstone.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder I dismissed it because none of what you listed proves a deity exists. Just because the conditions are right doesn't prove there is a supernatural entity at work. Currently, we only know that earth is the only inhabitable planet. You want "God" to take credit/responsibility for all these things, and yet are willing to dismiss all of what we know as evidence for a deity. Your "God of the gaps" still leaves unanswered questions, but your rationale is to believe it until it's prov
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 even if the earth isn't the Only Inhabited planet and Alien Races exist, i won't lose any sleep. My God can do the Impossible by the terms of Man. i've Witnessed it personally. BUT if it turns out 2 be the ONLY Inhabitable Planet, then u can pretty much toss Random Chance out the window. DO the MATH! what r the chances that only 1 inhabitable Planet exists by Random Chance? Numbers don't lie, dude. i say the Theory of Evolution is so Mathematically Improbable that it's IMPOSSIBLE.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder If can so easily dismiss other Gods, you should be able to understand why I dismiss yours. I use the same method that you used when you determined a disbelief in the Hindu Gods. In your case, you will continue to believe your God exists until it is proven incorrect. That's special pleasing for your God's existence. This is the opposite of being a "skeptic".
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 as i said, i was an Honest Skeptic. Learn, dude. there r 3 forms of Skepticism. 1. is the Honest Skeptic as myself. He is constinently questioning Life via introspection, debate like on here, discussions with others of different viewpoints, etc. u personally, but i speak on a plethora of topics from religion and politics to economics sports, and entertainment. 2. ur Average Skeptic. he is slightly different from an Agnostic 'cause he often wants more detail before a conclusion. cont.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder 3. a Pure (often Dishonest) Skeptic. i doubt u've ever dealt with 1. u think i'm tough 2 talk 2? well, u've got another thing coming. this guy i'm talkin' about is theoretcial 2 ad nauseum. Pure Skeptic will pretty much accept nothing in the same way of most of the religious folk u speak of. often they have TOO much knowldge. as any who has a little Life Experience knows, too much knowledge without application or perverted becomes dangerous.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Not one of your answers proves the any deity exists. This is your faith not proof. Proof of your faith is to yourself, not to the rest of the world. I'm not looking for the "truths" that back up your faith. I'm looking for the real evidence that you base your faith on to the rest of the world. Christianity, no matter how you label it, is no different than any other religion.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 ummm...r u just BLIND, or Straight up stubborn? is it even worth it 2 discuss with u? u ask 4 Proof (tangible proof i might add). when i display some, u already dismiss it without simple Logical regard. sir, ur WORSE than the "religious folk" u put on blast. ur what Scripture talks about. ur just like the Pharisees and worse. cont.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Romans 1:21-22 "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools." Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good." what is the standard for Morality?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
religion.. non of us will never end this discussion.. so why to bother.. im catholic and i like it
mayract 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder no middle position for me. I admit I could be wrong but, your reasoning for God's existence is enough for me to disbelieve any possibilities that your claims are true until you present demonstrable, tangible evidence that support your claim.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 tell Me. what have u gleaned as My Reasoning for God's existence? is ALL Evidence Tangible?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder In reference to the claims you are making? Absolutely the evidence should be tangible and demonstrable. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Let's review what you have listed. The flood- forget what the Bible "says" or what you believe. Account for civilizations that were supposed to be dead that never mention it. You mentioned Romans a few times. Many biblical scholars believe the writings to be a forgery, what evidence is absolute?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 Romans? the epistle of Paul? what does forgery change? his Style is similar 2 every other Epistle accredited 2 him. What does the Message of Romans teach? it's that simple. have we become so "educated" as a Race as 2 forget Practicality 2 Real Life?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder You said that you know the Bible is true based on science, history and everyday life. Nearly all religious manuscripts make the same claim. Why does the Bible carry more weight? The Quran, the Gita etc. why so quick to dismiss their writings or their claims of the existence of multiple gods? "The evidence is all around us" Narrow that down. Give one example that is proof positive of any deity's existence. Outside of the Bible, what do we have for accurate verification in
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 let Me just use the earth. 1. Lightning strikes just the right amount of times. 2. Earth is tilted on EXACTLY the right axis. 3. Earth is the PERFECT distance from the sun. 4. The sun is the only type of star that is known to support life. 5. Earth is the ONLY known habitable planet in the UNIVERSE. 6. The Nitrogen-Oxygen level is just right. 7. Earth is the ONLY known planet to have such vast amounts of liquid water. Need i go on?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder written history? 'Science can't deal with the supernatural" does the supernatural really exist? So, to you if science can't answer a question, it's supernatural therefor God did it? So if and when science answers a question to be 100% accurate, do you chalk that one off and move to the next and claim God did it because science can't answer it? Earlier, you called yourself a skeptic. Your reasoning is nothing how a skeptic looks at things.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 i am a Skeptic, but i'm an Honest Skeptic. i have seen proof of the workings of Christ in people's lives, namely Mine. i could spend hours telling one story after another. just 2 let u know, i should be DEAD several times over. Miracles do exist. this reminds what Jesus had 2 go thru with the people of His day.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder You have accepted your claims and beliefs as "facts". You believe in something until it's proven false. You are quick to dismiss other religions and their claims and accuse them of not doing their research. Why are you a Christian? Did you research all the other religions, found them to be inaccurate and decide Christianity was the way to go?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 Yes, i did Research ALL other Religions @ age 14. thanks 4 asking. :) i'm a Man who is in search of Real Truths in Life. i always have been. let Me boil it down 2 u this way.True Christianity as is in the Bible ain't a religion. Religions r man-made attempts 2 get 2 God. God Almighty in the human form of the God-man, Jesus the Christ, came down 2 Earth, lived a perfect life, died the worst possible Death, and rose 2 defeat Death and Hell. it's about a Renewed Relationship with God.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder This is all the more reason why Atheists think the way they do. You make a positive claim and have a burden of proof. I respond to your claim by saying I don't believe you. I can't say that you are wrong, but you and other believers are 100% positive that we are wrong. It's fine to believe that we are wrong, but we are not the ones making claims (well, some proposed "Atheists" are but they have as much of a burden of proof as you do).
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 well, think about this thought. it helped Nail the Coffin shut 4 Me. if ur right, then i just die, and that's All. if i'm right, then y'all will be suffering 4 the Rest of Eternity. i'm like Christ in this aspect. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." Hell is blazing, mostly, and indescribable really. the Lake of Fire...i don't even WANT 2 know.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "an Atheist MUST say there is no God" Correct. But it's the lack of belief based on positive claims that there is a God. An assertion of knowledge that there is no God is the same positive claim that there is a God. Both positions require evidence. An agnostic position would be the belief or reasoning is possible, but there are doubts. I don't believe any of the claims are even possible, until it's proven the claim(s) are true. They are either true or they are false. There is
jdale1 3 months ago
my favorite song!!
SuperTregs 3 months ago
Religion.....it makes sense if you don't think about it.
jdale1 3 months ago
When you really start thinking about religious beleifs... wow... how can they not realize how idiotic they sound?
OGAMIS 3 months ago
Egyptians and Mesopotamians.I think that it is interesting that many cultures have written about their own "flood" or how their "God" destroyed their civilization, even more interesting is how some give an entirely different time that seems to contradict "Noah's Flood".
jdale1 3 months ago
Many biblical scholars believe that the flood was local and not global and that this is supported by the Bible. They believe that the idea of a global flood is a misinterpretation of the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament. This has important implications. It makes it easier to explain;
No need to explain where the water came from and where it went after the flood.
Noah only needed to bring the animals necessary to repopulate the local region.
Explains why other cultures, such as the E
jdale1 3 months ago
Is Charity the lady in the middle? She's niiiiiice.
Morahg 3 months ago
wouldn't use this kind of thinking in everyday life, why make an exception? You wouldn't buy a car, a house or make any other major decision in your life this way.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "Science by it's definition CANNOT deal with the supernatural" Special pleading. In a nutshell; for lack of a better reason or answer, let's label it something that science can't solve or better yet we won't understand if it fell out the sky and landed in our lap. That way instead of looking at it objectively with scrutiny and common sense (like we do with everything else in our lives) we'll just it the exception and hope it or have faith that it's true. If a person wouldn't
jdale1 3 months ago
Pascal's wager = Fail. since a god will know your just believing because you want to go to Heaven & avoid hell.
Belief = Fail. A god that punishes intellectual honesty and rewards gullibility is not a god worth worshipping.
simply put, it is more important to be a good/moral/loving/tolerent/intelligent/logical person, than to "belive" AND IF A GOD TRUELY EXISTS then he would be an intelligent fellow & would not care if you believed or not, but simply were those good things.
nazmibest 3 months ago
It was checkmate at 3.24 for the theist......
ianjrivers 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Atheists and Agnostics do not have a problem with believers and or scripture. They are just responding to a positive claim which has not met the burden of proof. The institutions of science and history does not care about one's beliefs, for good reason. Can you provide one example where either has authenticated any of your beliefs or where any of the obscene acts has been accepted by the scientific community?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 u say Atheists have No problem with Theists. Really?! have u checked out many of these Videos and seen some of the Nasty comments ur Fellow Atheists have left and attacked People with? i don't Mind y'all, but apparently in most cases there is No Neutral Zone. many Atheists want the Eradication of Christianity @ all costs. from what i've seen and heard, Atheists make more claims than we do. u say u Need Proof. what is the Basis that can Support Atheism, and what does 1 gain from Atheism?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Well, okay I should have said not all Atheists. But there are just as many nasty videos from Christians and other believers on the internet as well. Like Christians, if an Atheists make an extraordinary claims, than I expect them as well to present the evidence to support the claim. "God does not exist"; positive claim involving some form of knowledge-what evidence do you have? gnostic Atheists make these claims all the time. The hosts of AE, have stated numerous times that
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder that they are not certain that God does not exist, they base that on positive claims made by believers and Christians for their disbelief. The entire basis that supports Atheism is a response to a positive claim. That's all it is. What is there to gain from Atheism? Does there have to be? Is there a problem with disbelieving something until it's proven true? I would say you would have something to gain to "disprove" your disbelief.
jdale1 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jdale1 u say Atheists have No problem with Theists. Really?! have u checked out many of these Videos and seen some of the Nasty comments ur Fellow Atheists have left and attacked People with? i don't Mind y'all, but apparently in most cases there is No Neutral Zone. many Atheists want the Eradication of Christianity @ all costs. from what i've seen and heard, Atheists make more claims than we do. u say u Need Proof. what is the Basis that can Support Atheism, and what does 1 gain from Atheism?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder You are a person who believes in something until it's proven false. Hardly the behavior of someone who is skeptical. Based on your own words, you don't need tangible, demonstrable evidence to believe your convictions are true. If the Bible is as true as you say it to be, and based on the reasons you illustrated, the Gita and the Quran are just as authentic. That being the case, why are you a Christian and not a Muslim?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 sir, u Misunderstand Me. i said i base My Beliefs off of Proof. u ask y i'm not a Muslim? tell Me how much u Know about Islam. it'll be easier 2 Careful, if i Understand what u know.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "sir, u Misunderstand Me. i said i base My Beliefs off of Proof." Perhaps I did misunderstand you. So are you making an exception for your belief in God and special pleading? Or were you speaking for all of your beliefs that are based on truth? If it's the same for your belief in God, what evidence do you have for that belief? Is this belief founded by some form of knowledge? I can say I believe that aliens exist without presenting evidence by saying I don't claim to know they
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder they exist, but I believe it's plausible that they do. So when you say that your belief is based on proof, does that mean your belief in God is based on proof? If so what is the proof or knowledge you posses that your belief is accurate and correct? The question as to why you are a Christian and not a Muslim has nothing to do with what I know about either religion, it's irrelevant. You would just have to say I'm a Christian because........ and not a Muslim because........
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
Are you a person who believes in something until it's proven false or are you a person who disbelieves something until it's proven true?
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 Look. this is what i say about Myself. i am a Skeptic of ALL, everyone and everything. i'm Interested solely into the Real Truths of Life, not that Sugarcoated, Superficial BS that most r into these Days, as represented by MOST of 2day's Music. i base my beliefs off of Proven Institutions (Science, History, and everyday life to name a few), which is y i KNOW that the Bible is True. Many Atheists seem 2 have a Problem with the Obscene Acts in Scripture...
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder 2 Me, that proves it's Relatable and Authentic. Adam chooses his Wife over obedience 2 God. Noah gets drunk and naked, and his son walks in on him and tells his 2 bros. Abram lies about his about his wife Sarai ONLY being his sister. Aaron, the High Priest makes a Golden Calf because the people pressure him 2 do so. Moses strikes a Rock in Anger because of the people in Direct disobedience 2 God's Command. Solomon gets 700 wives & 300 concubines. the List goes on and on.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder You said for me to show you lies in the bible and specific contradictions? I shall try, but I have a feeling that you will not hear them out. Let's begin with the lie that god is omnibenevolent. This is contradicted by the flood of Noah. Your God didn't even try to reason with mankind before he decided to destroy them all and the animals with them. Also, the flood of Noah has been shown to have never occurred/ We have no geological evidence of it. And we would had it happened
atheistjacob 4 months ago
@atheistjacob Also, Noah's flood would require three times as much water on Earth. Disprove me if you can. I am open to disproofs.
atheistjacob 4 months ago
@atheistjacob how is that Determinable, sir?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@atheistjacob Nay, bro. My God ALWAYS saves a Remnant of the Righteous. Look! there ARE Consequences 4 Actions. Punishment is expected 2 come. My God has much Patience, but eventually people WILL Reap what they Sow. Think about it. if u go 30 mph over the Speed Limit and those Red and Blue lights stop u, then u have No one 2 Blame but urself. if a Child continually disobeys, then any good Parent will have 2 discipline him. sir, it depends on what u consider "Evidence" 'cause it's all around us.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Oh enlighten me then. And are you saying that the genocied of all but eight people and the subsequent INCEST (which is a sin in your bible) are both ok if its God doing it and not man? Because if you are, you need to be locked up. But present me with evidence of the flood, I will analyze it, and I will come to a conclusion based on an objective analysis of your evidence.
atheistjacob 3 months ago
@atheistjacob where is Incest involved? There were 8 people onboard the Ark. Noah, his wife, his 3 sons, and his 3 daughters-in-law. u Know how Oil is made Correct?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder If Noah and his family were the only one's saved, his family of course meaning the people you mentioned, then Noah's grandchildren would have had to commit incest to repopulate the Earth. But I do notice that you managed to avoid my question. You should probably answer it.
atheistjacob 3 months ago
@atheistjacob obviously, incest incest would have had 2 happen, even if ur Evolution is Correct. the Gene Pool wasn't as polluted or Vast back then. i didn't avoid ur Question. i asked if u knew a Simple Biological Concept. Oil is made because Massive amounts of pressure crushed Marine Animals. if that's the case, then how is there so much Oil in the Desert? there's more evidence as well, but let's be Honest with ourselves. Science by its definition CANNOT deal with the Supernatural.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder many deserts used to be oceans. geological shifts and so on ...
danjclay27 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder Actually, incest is necessarily required for evolution. Or at the very least, not in the extreme that it is for religion. Evolution would allow for a bit of genetic variation among most of the mates of the past where as your religion does, in fact, not. But the fact that oil is found in such great quantities in the desert can be seen as a support for evolution as it can be used as evidence that some marine animals did in fact walk on land at one point, so this is moot.
atheistjacob 3 months ago
@atheistjacob And I do accept that science cannot deal with the supernatural. At least in part. There are, I believe, certain things that can be done or said scientifically to strengthen the claims of a supernatural, the problem is no one has ever tried. People try to use circular logic and obvious forgeries to try to strengthen their claims. But you do a great job of defending your faith. Even when I was deliberately trying to trip you up by using attacks on your god.
atheistjacob 3 months ago
@atheistjacob But either way, I am an atheist and an anti theist. So I believe that even if your God exists, he is inherently evil and deserves not to be worshiped but to be overthrown. I only wish I had the characters to explain the evolution of modern Judaism, from which I'm sure you know, Christianity came. If you would like to continue debating, please give me a topic. Otherwise, good day to you sir.
atheistjacob 3 months ago
@atheistjacob i don't Understand ur Point on Incest. if u r Referring 2 the Mosaic Law, there were Millions of People omn Earth even in those days. as u know Incest causes Genetic Mutations after a few Generations. Most mutations r malign in nature, so what is ur Point? as i sadi the Gene Pool in the Days after Noah wasn't really tainted. what is ur Hypothesis of how Pangea broke up? u say SOME Marine Animals, but were there enough Marine animals 2 produce BILLIONS of gallons of oil?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder If the flood actually happened and Noah was the only person saved, like the Bible says, then modern man would not exist today. Pangea broke up by something called plate tectonics. And as there were about five billion species on Earth around 4,000 years ago, it is very likely. More likely, at least, than the flood.
atheistjacob 3 months ago
@atheistjacob as i said before Noah wasn't alone. he had his wife, 3 sons, and his daughters-in-law. how would Man NOT exist 2day? i believe in Plate Techtonics, but i don't the theory that it was the Initial Break. here r My reasons y. 1. the Continents fit almost Too perfectly. 2. y is there SUCH a large Gap between North America and Asia (the North Pacific)? 3. Islands and Hills have been Observed 2 appear practically Overnight. 4. i have an Issue with a Change of Universal Weather 2 Climates
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "as i said before Noah wasn't alone, he had his wife, 3 sons, and his daughters-in-law. how would man NOT exist 2day?" -Well the real question here for YOU to answer is if the only people left on Earth were Noah and family where did all of the different races of people come from (since you aren't a fan of random mutation or evolution)? Shouldn't we all look like Noah and family?
jbclark61 3 months ago
@jbclark61 we do, Man. u see. i agree with Micro-evolution, Adaptation, and Natural Selection, which we see everyday as well as being a Pillar of Biology. i don't agree with Random Mutation simple because almost ALL Mutations r Lethal. those that do occur r rarely Hereditary. Now, there Races of People, but ONLY species of Mankind. i believe the Peoples of Earth migrated out of the Fertile Crescant and Adapted to their Environments.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder it's simple really. Blacks/Darker Races are in the South (Africa and Australia) because of the Sun. Whites/Caucasians in the North (Europe and Northern Asia) because of less Sunlight and Long, Cold Winters. Browns/The Middle Races take up the Middle East and most of Polynesia and Ocenia. Redmen took to the West (the Americas) and Yellowmen took to the East (the Orient and Sotheast Asia). then, Isolationism occured. Rare acceptions like Imperial Asian families don't count.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "I don't agree with Random Mutation simple because almost ALL mutations r Lethal." - Sorry, but I'm afraid not. There are point mutations-Silent mutations: which code for the same amino acid.
Missense mutations: which code for a different amino acid.
Nonsense mutations: which code for a stop and can truncate the protein. Insertions add one or more extra nucleotides into the DNA. Deletions remove one or more nucleotides from the DNA. .. these aren't necessarily "lethal".
jbclark61 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder cont. Going back to original point of your "Noah story"....Biblical timelines put this "global flood of Noah" as occurring somewhere between 4200-4300 years ago...again the problem with this story is that we have both written and archeaological evidence showing clearly dozens of civilizations with unbroken history going way back before and after this "flood". Minoan, Phenecians, People of Indus Valley, all were thriving during this period of time and report no flood.
jbclark61 3 months ago
@jbclark61 sir, give Me a Historian who Verifies the Dates of the Flood. as far as i Know, we still say Abraham live @ 4000-5000 years ago. i suggest u get ur Stats right and updated. Abraham came WAY after Noah BTW.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "sir, give Me a Historian who Verifies the Dates of the Flood." - OK...according to the Ussher chronology, the Flood was in 2348 BC. The creationist website "Answers In Genesis" says, "The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC +/- 11 years." I can give you many more if you like, but again the point is that based on biblical historians the flood was supposed have happened 4300 years ago and we know for a fact dozens of civilizations that report no such thing.
jbclark61 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder And speaking of species and migration can you explain how it is that if all of the animals of the earth were saved on the Ark of Noah how did the indigenous species get to their repective homes from an Ark in the middle East?...for example how did the kangaroos get to Australia?...hippity hop across the ocean? Or polar bears to the artic circle, or penguins to Antartica? Also if there were on a couple of each species of carnivore (wolf, tiger, lion) what did they eat?
jbclark61 3 months ago
@jbclark61 sir, i've gotta ask. r u Seriously Retarted? u believe in Pangea don't u? Polar bears and kangaroos? do u not Understand something called Adaptation 2 ur Environment? plus, certain Animals were brought along 2 Islands and such by Humans. huh...now, ur just talkin' Ignorantly.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "u believe in Pangea don't u?" - Yes, but it began breaking into the various continents during the Mesazoic period some 200 million years ago and by the time of the supposed "global flood of Noah" all continents were seperated just as they are today (roughly). ...Let me point out that if you are going to call me "seriously retarted" you should first learn how to spell "retarded" so you don't look so "retarded" yourself. Maybe, your critical thinking skills will improve with age
jbclark61 3 months ago
@jbclark61 1st of all, that was My Bad. i was tired when i wrote the Comment. Secondly, u question My Critical Skills. ok Tough Guy. now, u've kinda pissed Me off. WHERE is ur Evidence that Pangea broke up 200 million years ago, or r u just relying on some vague theory? u've given ZERO proof that the Flood didn't occur. Oh, and what reason should i be an Atheist? what's the POINT of Atheism?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "what's the POINT of Atheism?" The entire point of Atheism is a response to a positive claim, not an assertion that a deity does not exist. When an Atheist or anybody states they disbelieve in something, they don't have to provide evidence that their disbelief is true. They respond to a claim made by someone who fails to provide evidence/validation that their claim is true. Saying that you disbelieve in God is not the same as saying God does not exist.
jdale1 3 months ago
@jdale1 Dude, do u Understand the word Atheist comes from the Greek? u guys Need 2 use New Terminology 'cause the Greek translation is a-"not" or "no" and theos-"God". by Definition, an Atheist MUST say there is no God. @ best i say ur either an Agnostic or Skeptic, sir, as well as those who share the same Tecnical view as u.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "God does not exist" is as much a positive claim that 'God does exist". The statement comes from knowledge at which a requirement of proof that the statement is correct is expected. In the case of the "flood" I respond by saying I don't believe you, it doesn't matter if my disbelief is true or not because I don't have justify my disbelief. My disbelief becomes validated if you cannot provide evidence to support your claim.
jdale1 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "WHERE is ur Evidence that Pangea broke up 200 million years ago,.." - You know, when I want legal advice I don't go to my plumber, when I want medical advice I don't ask my carpenter, when I want advice about geology I don't consult the Bible....when you develope some critical thinking skills maybe you will catch on to this concept: ). cont.
jbclark61 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder cont. "u've given ZERO proof that the flood didn't occur." If the flood happened 4300 years ago and killed everyone on earth accept Noah and zoo, why is there written documented and archeaological proof of entire civilizations existed before during and after said time...like people of Indus Valley, Minoans, Phenecians, or even the Chinese? Looks like proof to me." Oh, and what reason should i be an Atheist?" I don't know.
jbclark61 3 months ago
@jbclark61 WHO says the Flood happened 4300 years ago? uh...i always Learned that Abraham lived 4000-5000 years ago. in fact fact Moses existed almost 4000 years ago. hello? this is Basic History, dude.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder "what's the POINT of Atheism?" - When you were 3 years old did you have a "belief" in gravity? If you are like most people the answer would be, no, I had no idea what gravity was hence you were "atheist" concerning gravity. What was the POINT of this disbelief? When you answer this question then you will have the answer to the question you posed to me.
jbclark61 3 months ago
@jbclark61 sir, i can't u serious right now. that Comment was TERRIBLY and Totally illogical.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
The point of atheism is to be less wrong by believing in at least one fewer false thing.
rkyeun 3 months ago
@rkyeun What is Truth? what is the standard for Truth? how does one go about proving something to be ABSOLUTELY False? is Truth subjective or objective? Convince Me to forfeit My Faith and choose Atheism. i have said and will ALWAYS say, "If someone is able to Prove through Science, History, Philosophy, etc. that there is no God and that Jesus is NOT the Son of God, then i will become an Atheist INSTANTLY." i am Certain and have that much Confidence that it is IMPOSSIBLE to provide such Proof.
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
Truth is that which causes contradiction if its negation is accepted. The standard is the logical proof or the experimental observation. To prove something absolutely false, you test it while recording your methods and results, and observe something that must not happen if your assumption is true. Truth is objective and reality is its arbiter. The experiment is a question asked. The experimental observation is the answer. What is observed is the truth, provided by reality.
rkyeun 3 months ago
@rkyeun that's a Beautiful definition. how does ur definition of Truth apply 2 the Concept of God, Ethics, Morals, Justice, and Consciousness. None of them r truly experimental. how can u Prove which is True and which is False? What is Reality anyway? how can u make sure an Experiment isn't flawed in anyway outside of a Laboratory setting?
UnexpectedWonder 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
I'll handle these in reverse order.
If an experiment is flawed, then it asks a question slightly different than the one that was intended. The answer to that different question is still true, it just may take us a while to catch what question we actually asked. This is why science engages in peer review. How we asked our questions and what answers we got are stored forever, for everyone to look at, so if there are errors they will eventually be caught.
rkyeun 3 months ago
@UnexpectedWonder
Sometimes when I perform an experiment I already have a strong idea of what the result should be. Sometimes I am wrong and something entirely different happens. Reality is a body of knowledge that my understanding did not match. I may hold certain things to be true or false. When I disagree with reality I am wrong. Reality will blindly refuse to operate according to my false assumptions, indifferent to and unaware of my opinions. Things are already true or false in reality.
rkyeun 3 months ago