This short program was extremely difficult to judge. While she fully rotated her jumps, used the right technique, and was sophisticated and elegant, there were problems. Her jumps were shaky, and her spiral sequence and layback, her weaker elements, were unusually weak today. I would also place her 5th - with Suguri in 4th instead of Hughes. Sebestyen is 6th, Hughes 7th.
I think the problem with this program is that it was one of Maria's weakest composed/choreographed shorts. This piece of music probably had suited better for a long program. She needed a more bouncier short like 'Fever' from the '98 Olympics that really showed off her musicality. The judges were clearly a bit confused and were all over the place. Still...5th was too low.
Sophisticated, sensuous and harmonious. Bravo Maria! Scott Hamilton is an imbecile for saying "nothing was truly special". A comment more fitting for his skating which I was never enthralled by.
Commentators and judges were always highly critical of her. She was mature, sophisticated, and lyrical. Granted her nerves sometimes made her stiff, overall this was a good performance
Every time I watch this program I like it more. It was very well choreographed. The footwork sequence flowed very nicely and she could certainly do the jumps. She also had good spin positions and speed in rotation, if not so much in the rest of the program. Just a very mature and elegant skater.
I still cannot believe he said "Every element delivered beautifully, but you have to say nothing was truly special." It is a shock every time I hear that. It was such an elegant performance when you compare it to so many others that night.
@jprush Every element WASN'T delivered beautifully. He just said that to be nice. Every element was clean but that's it really. The landings on her jumps don't flow, the spins are not special (although her camel position is excellent), and the footwork and spiral sequence were weak. The overall performance was simply boring and felt forced. I would have given her a 5.5 on both the tech and presentation marks, 6th place overall.
@jprush It was good, I wouldn't say beautiful though? It wasn't special in any way. Average height/distance on that jump and no kind of extra difficult entrance/exit, although her hands were nice on the landing.
So why are you putting a comment... shut up you.... We are free to comment on the 2002 oly till the 2050 if we like.... or if we are still alive... hehehe
Totally agree. Maria was always undermarked and this time it was just ridiculous. This Olympics must go to the history books as the most undermarked Maria/Irina event and the most upmarked Michelle/Sarah event. I would have Irina a clear winner of the short, Cohen 2nd and Butyrskaya 3rd...and I wouldn't change those positions for the medals after the free. Kwan and Hughes medals in this competition is just beyond me.
well... I actually think you have an argument with the short (although I think Kwan was in the top three with her flow and beauty alone- remember, she had only one minor deduction with the flip, but in terms of the free: Irina had one or two glaring mistakes, Maria had many, unfortunately and that wasn't an olympic performance, and she knew it. Kwan had one mistake, and she was above Irina, but Sara was truly the best skate... she had a flutz, and a MINOR under-rotation, but very hard free too
Sarah had the best long and deserved to win the long. However she certainly did not have the 4th best short. She deserved only 6th or 7th place in the short. If her short was scored correctly she would have been lucky to win the bronze overall.
Good points. Although Kwan had two mistakes in the free, two-footing one of her triple toes and almost falling on the flip. Sarah's short had its flaws, but she had superior spirals and layback, plus attempting a more difficult combination with the loop instead of the toe-loop as the second jump. Then again, I believe Maria did a clean lutz, not a flutz. You could argue either way.
This is such a tough program to score or compare, because she really did land everything cleanly, but, as scott said, "nothing was truly special." Nothing stood out. The others atleast had something unique abou them. I have always been a Maria fan, and I wish she had presented a better short... I will say, though, that she ALWAYS skates completely with the music. If you notice, every single thing she does is precisely with the music. I will say that that is special.
choreagraphy and artistic sensibility WERE "truly special." I'm immediately taken to a 'white lilies island' when I hear the music, and see her expressions, especially at the end.
What brought the performance down was pretty much execution. She was too slow, and by then, not enough flexibility.
Screeching Scott and Bitter Bezic: I had the hand them the gold medal for excessive negative commentary. Poor Maria, she deserves better.
Maria's lack of speed and lack of attack cost her. It would have been nice for her to be in 4th over Sarah. At that time, Cohen was the IT girl with Kwan and Slutskaya as the veterans. I think, sadly, the judges wanted to get rid of her.
Scott is a show skater and never got the subtle femininity of Maria's skating, and Bezic is just... bitter.
she was probably placed correctly (her marks were overly low though) but Scott doesn't know his ass from his elbow - he said Irina's program was nothing special either, when it should have been 1st
Scott's remark at the end is so off putting.. I loved the performance.. I think Maria puts skating in a dramatic flair.. I think all the top six women at the games really have their own unique style.. Fumie is calm and subdued.. Irina is atheletic yet charming.. Sasha has fire.. Michelle has the full package in a calm way.. and Sarah has a balletic presentation which is a little bouncy..
How old was she here?? I wish skaters would not be pushed so fast when they're so young because it just leads to burnout and/or injury. I wish more skaters would stay in and compete for as long as Maria did!
I agree. I think it's cool that Maria stayed around into her late 20s. Here I believe she is 29. Slutskaya was I think 26 when she won the bronze in Torino. I like to see that.
It's interesting. I ADORE and LOVE maria, but I can't figure this one out. Im not sure if it was that she was older and knew this was her last year, but she really chose relatively easy footwork and choreography. Her jumps were tight but clean, and her combo spin was excellent, but I think the bottom line for this one is that she was incredibly nervous. She said so in an interview right afterwards. This was in America with clear audience favorites. A difficult position. Still, i LOVE HER.
I love this music, and I adore Maria. I think she should have done something more special for the olympics. I mean, all of her other shorts in recent years were fantastic and full of energy. She skated this one slowly and the footwork was simply. I loved her combo spin though.
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Deserved 7th. Her expression here is so bad and her movement stifled. It's as if someone is choking her. Very stiff body and facial appearance. Just look at her in that forward spiral - it appears as if she is about to vomit. And then lifting her skirt up at the end...WOW. That was just desperate. Say what you want, Sarah Hughes deserved the higher placement. More pleasing performance, better Layback, better Spiral.
Zuranthium, why do not you just say you did not like her because she is not from the US? You tend to bash all the non US skater. So just be honest .....
BTW Maria did not have good run out or deep edging on her spirals either. It is clear you just pick out the athletes you like more, whether they be American, Russian, Chinese, whatever, and look for ways to say they deserve to be over athletes you dont like by nitpicking any faults you can find, while ignoring those of your pet favorite athletes. Sorry it is too easy for anyone to do it, but to have it have credability is another thing.
Maria didn't have a good spiral here, but her jumps and spins were clean. Both Sasha and Sarah had mistakes ,as well as Kwan and had it been a fair competition, Butyrskaya would get higher presentation marks than Cohen and Hughes.
You are dimwit thrash. You really know nothing about gymnastics or skating. Thinking a gymnast who had a mediocre beam and bars routine (Mary Lou) deserved the AA gold over a gymnast great on all 4 events (Szabo). Thinking Ito is more artistic then Yamaguchi. Now saying Marias tediously slow boring skate with horrible jump landings, ragged spins, horrid spiral sequence, was better then Sasha or Sarah just because of minor faults like a bit of shallow edging or a flutz.
"minor faults like a bit of shallow edging or a flutz " ? What are you talking about?
Their triple lutz wasn't triple and wasn't even lutz ! Both had serious troubles with the jumps, Sarah underroted almost every triple jump in both programs as a result her 3/3 combo was really 3/2 and maybe 2/2 and she couldn't jump lutz. Sasha also underritated a lot ,her jumping technique is weak and flutz.
It is so funny when you calling me Eurothrash just for saying the way overrated Retton did not deserve the 84 Olympic AA over the great Szabo. Yet since then I have defended Americans like Hughes, Cohen, Yamaguchi to you vs foreign skaters you overrate. Yeah Sarah and Sasha have flaws but look at Marias skate. Badly stiff knees, horrible layback, the worst spirals, slow as a snail. Maria has some great shorts but not this one. Atleast Sarah and Sasha could do a layback and spiral properly.
quirotmutolafan: I'm not sure I understand your logic re: bias judging in the US. Remember, the judging panel was not American; it was made up of one US judge, and rest mostly European. Further, in the final outcome, the judges put Kwan third behind Irina, when it could have gone either way; it there was serious bias here, Kwan would have surely beaten Irina. (Whether Irina actually deserved to be above Kwan is for another day). Your point is sort of unfounded really.
The Grand Prix final was held a month before the Olympics in Canada. Irina, Maria, and Michelle all had clean shorts and Irina was easily 1st with all 1st place ordinals, and Maria 2nd over Michelle on a 4-3 split. Yet here in the Olympics in the U.S Michelle someone how wins over Irina and Maria is down in 5th. Coincidence, LOL! In France Cohen had a clean short and was 3rd behind Maria (1st) and the #3 Russian Volchkova. Yet here in the Olympics in the U.S She is 3rd to Maria's 5th. Hmm.
and if you follow skating you would know home court skaters always have an advantage. Just look at the 2004 Worlds in Germans. Winkler & Lohse and Lindemann winning medals, WHAT!?! Those are skaters that were never close to the podium any other time in their careers. Look at how when Lysacek and Chan last year met, at 4CCs in Canada Chan destroys Evan and at Worlds in LA Evan wins. In this case the home court bias went both ways doubling the disparity. I could give examples forever here.
I didn't know the results after the short at the GPF, so that was quite interesting! I do follow skating, and I agree that there tends to be a home court advantage. I just disagree that, were it not for the games being in SLC, the results would be as you listed them. I think that's a stretch. I still don't understand how the same Hungarian judge gives one score in Canada/Europe and another in the US. I think it might be that the crowd makes it easier for US skaters to feel pumped.
Yes a home crowd can make home skaters seem more inspired. However I dont think that was the case here. Kwan had a cheated and shaky triple flip, Cohen had even better shorts this year, and Hughes was mediocre in the short. My standings are based on competitions previously the season and how judges had previously scored these skaters in the short going clean vs each other. Except for Hughes who I knock down extra since her short sucked. So I dont think they are unreasonable.
If you want even more detailed examples by the way: 2001 Goodwill Games- Irina, Michelle, Fumie, Sasha all clean. Irina 1st, Michelle 2nd, Fumie 3rd, Sasha 4th. 2001 Trophee France- Maria, Victoria, Sasha all clean. Maria 1st, Victoria 2nd, Sasha 3rd. 01-02 Grand Prix final- Irina, Maria, Michelle all clean. Irina 1st all 1st votes, Maria 2nd on a 4-3 split over Michelle. So again standings if Olympics were not in U.S: 1. Irina 2. Maria 3. Michelle 4. Fumie 5. Sasha 6. Julia 7. Hughes
Well I didnt put her that high since her lack of international reputation means she would have been screwed over by the judges no matter where the Olympics was. If you follow figure skating I am sure you know that is part of how things work in the sport.
@quirotmutolafan No, Kwan wasn't clean. Maria has NEVER placed above Kwan when they've both skated cleanly. Maria might have gotten 4th in the SP at 2002 Olympics had the competition been held in RUSSIA, but she was absolutely not going to beat Kwan or Cohen with that performance regardless of any outside factors.
I understand what you are saying, but I still don't get why the location has something to do with how non-US judges score skaters. I too disagree with the placements in SLC, but why do European and Asian judges mark a US skater differently in the US? Any theories as to why? The only I can think of is that they get swept up in the home town favorite fever.
I think they want to please the crowd. As you notice the U.S crowd imparticular is very patriotic almost to a fault and biased to U.S skaters. Look at how they boo Kwan's short program scores which were in fact probably too high. Look at how they boo Ina & Zimmeran's short program scores which were correct with both a shaky jump and shaky spin by him. I do get think they get intimidated to meet a home countries biased fans, and also get swept up in emotion and enthusiastic responses.
I would also add to that I think the Sale & Pelletier scandal were the U.S media flexed their muscles as their pressure was the biggest thing that made it happen intimidated the judges in future events Americans were contenders. Goebel even with all his quads I thought was overmarked. In womens there was hype of a sweep. So IMO they overmarked the U.S women, and undermarked people like Maria, Irina, and Fumie in the short since they wanted to keep a crowd pleasing U.S sweep possible.
I would agree mostly , it's just that arakawa really didn't take part in the event and I would put Butyrskaya ahead of Sebestyen .Suguri behind both Maria and Juliya, Hughes - 7.
As usual you are wrong, proving again what a fool you are when it comes to both skating and gymnastics. If you knew anything about figure skating this was a bad short program for Maria by her standards, even with no major mistakes. Much much slower then usual, more timid, tenative. Her short from Europeans or the GP final that year would have made her competitive with Kwan and Slutskaya in the Olympic short. This short came nowhere near her better ones that season, thus 5th.
It's not about Maria's standarts - it's about the overall standarts. Maria's SP was much better than Hughes .Fumie had flutz and not the best presentation ,though I think she should still beat Sarah.Cohen was pretty fair placed third despite the mistakes- she was fast ,sharp, best spins and best spirals.Butyrskaya should have been 4th,Sebastien - 5th,Suguri- 6,Hughes-7.
Diskplaying it does not matter what her standards were as far as were she should have placed. Yes this wasnt her best short program but it was still much better then Hughes and probably better then Cohen who back then had no edges or speed.
This program was pretty clean but for her usual short program standards it was garbage. It was so slow and tenative and her elements were shaky and weak compared to her usual. That is why she finished 5th when she is often 1st or 2nd in the short. I agree maybe she still should have been over Hughes though, and if she was Hughes would not have won the gold medal overall.
She can have stiff landings but her technic is one of the best. her curves into the jumps are excelents. outside edge and inside edge in take off of lutz and flip!
She deserved the third place in this short program, over Sara Hughs!
I agree, she wasn't the best, but she was always stiff on her jumps, it was just her thing. I think in terms of placement this should have been around 5-6, but not 10th.
well her jumps were good, but she was slow, and this program is by far her most boring and worst-choreographed. every other short program she's had was light years ahead of this in terms of choreography and highlighting her strengths.
I remember being pissed too, she got so undermarked for this program. I loved her attack, and was so glad when she won in 1999. And for 29!!!! Crazy - only Jennifer Robinson got better with age the way Maria did. 5.2? 5.0?!? Insane. You can't give someone 5.0 when they land all their jumps!
It's not only about landing the jumps, it's about landing them...pretty. Sure, she nailed everything, however she was stiffer than a tree and that was reflected in her marks. The marks were fair.
I will never forget how mad I got at the commentators on this program, particularly the woman. Maria was 29 years old, and this was to be her last performance. I remember when Katarina Vitt came back from retirement in the prior Olympics, and Scott Hamilton was in awe that she was landing double axels.
This World Champion should have been given more respect by the American broadcasters... Go Maria!
This short program was extremely difficult to judge. While she fully rotated her jumps, used the right technique, and was sophisticated and elegant, there were problems. Her jumps were shaky, and her spiral sequence and layback, her weaker elements, were unusually weak today. I would also place her 5th - with Suguri in 4th instead of Hughes. Sebestyen is 6th, Hughes 7th.
dc19921000 9 months ago
I think the problem with this program is that it was one of Maria's weakest composed/choreographed shorts. This piece of music probably had suited better for a long program. She needed a more bouncier short like 'Fever' from the '98 Olympics that really showed off her musicality. The judges were clearly a bit confused and were all over the place. Still...5th was too low.
Jontor11 11 months ago
Sophisticated, sensuous and harmonious. Bravo Maria! Scott Hamilton is an imbecile for saying "nothing was truly special". A comment more fitting for his skating which I was never enthralled by.
WarrenBeattySplendor 1 year ago 3
Commentators and judges were always highly critical of her. She was mature, sophisticated, and lyrical. Granted her nerves sometimes made her stiff, overall this was a good performance
sezwho747 1 year ago 2
i'm sorry but Scott's commentary was annoying and wrongful...this is a mature program with beautiful choreography well suited to the music..
JeremiVW 1 year ago 5
@JeremiVW I agree! Scott's comments about her being nothing special were ASSinine
tontoguy 1 year ago
Every time I watch this program I like it more. It was very well choreographed. The footwork sequence flowed very nicely and she could certainly do the jumps. She also had good spin positions and speed in rotation, if not so much in the rest of the program. Just a very mature and elegant skater.
Dylvente 1 year ago
I still cannot believe he said "Every element delivered beautifully, but you have to say nothing was truly special." It is a shock every time I hear that. It was such an elegant performance when you compare it to so many others that night.
jprush 1 year ago 3
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@jprush Every element WASN'T delivered beautifully. He just said that to be nice. Every element was clean but that's it really. The landings on her jumps don't flow, the spins are not special (although her camel position is excellent), and the footwork and spiral sequence were weak. The overall performance was simply boring and felt forced. I would have given her a 5.5 on both the tech and presentation marks, 6th place overall.
Zuranthium 1 year ago
@Zuranthium If you go back and look at her double axel, now that was beautiful.
jprush 1 year ago 2
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@jprush It was good, I wouldn't say beautiful though? It wasn't special in any way. Average height/distance on that jump and no kind of extra difficult entrance/exit, although her hands were nice on the landing.
Zuranthium 1 year ago
I love her libela spins and axel. And so great edge on luts. That's really good!
slavaro1992 1 year ago
... explain the 5.0 for technical merit... really? seriously? way too low!!!
toplay4fun2003 1 year ago
Her double axel looks gorgeous!!!!
vinicius2801 1 year ago
I just hate Scott Hamilton and his bias comments towards all the non-northamerican skaters! That is just ridiculous!
zenitrulit2 2 years ago 4
I concur. I hate his commentary.
CoCoNuTsiopatHic 2 years ago 2
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i think scott hamilton knows what the hell he's talking about first of all and secondly can everyone just shut up? its been years since these games
iceSk8erxoxo 2 years ago
So why are you putting a comment... shut up you.... We are free to comment on the 2002 oly till the 2050 if we like.... or if we are still alive... hehehe
iceroby72 2 years ago
If Scott thought, that in this lyrical program she should run as a horse, he understands nothing in women skating.
LigaSvobodu 2 years ago 5
i think this was total bullshit. she should have been 3rd. the judges were totally against her.
chinito32 2 years ago 9
Totally agree. Maria was always undermarked and this time it was just ridiculous. This Olympics must go to the history books as the most undermarked Maria/Irina event and the most upmarked Michelle/Sarah event. I would have Irina a clear winner of the short, Cohen 2nd and Butyrskaya 3rd...and I wouldn't change those positions for the medals after the free. Kwan and Hughes medals in this competition is just beyond me.
Jontor11 2 years ago 2
well... I actually think you have an argument with the short (although I think Kwan was in the top three with her flow and beauty alone- remember, she had only one minor deduction with the flip, but in terms of the free: Irina had one or two glaring mistakes, Maria had many, unfortunately and that wasn't an olympic performance, and she knew it. Kwan had one mistake, and she was above Irina, but Sara was truly the best skate... she had a flutz, and a MINOR under-rotation, but very hard free too
mlc2005 2 years ago
Sarah had the best long and deserved to win the long. However she certainly did not have the 4th best short. She deserved only 6th or 7th place in the short. If her short was scored correctly she would have been lucky to win the bronze overall.
russianskatingfan 2 years ago
Good points. Although Kwan had two mistakes in the free, two-footing one of her triple toes and almost falling on the flip. Sarah's short had its flaws, but she had superior spirals and layback, plus attempting a more difficult combination with the loop instead of the toe-loop as the second jump. Then again, I believe Maria did a clean lutz, not a flutz. You could argue either way.
Dylvente 2 years ago
@chinito32 i agree.... she should have been ahead of Sarah Hughes definitely - I think Sasha did have a better short so maybe 4th after the short
toplay4fun2003 1 year ago
didnt the mafia try and kill her? I thought it was quite lovely. She should have been 3rd.
audreyessex 2 years ago 3
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Beautiful music, boring routine!
twilliger123 2 years ago
This is such a tough program to score or compare, because she really did land everything cleanly, but, as scott said, "nothing was truly special." Nothing stood out. The others atleast had something unique abou them. I have always been a Maria fan, and I wish she had presented a better short... I will say, though, that she ALWAYS skates completely with the music. If you notice, every single thing she does is precisely with the music. I will say that that is special.
mlc2005 2 years ago
choreagraphy and artistic sensibility WERE "truly special." I'm immediately taken to a 'white lilies island' when I hear the music, and see her expressions, especially at the end.
What brought the performance down was pretty much execution. She was too slow, and by then, not enough flexibility.
jorje286 2 years ago 4
Screeching Scott and Bitter Bezic: I had the hand them the gold medal for excessive negative commentary. Poor Maria, she deserves better.
Maria's lack of speed and lack of attack cost her. It would have been nice for her to be in 4th over Sarah. At that time, Cohen was the IT girl with Kwan and Slutskaya as the veterans. I think, sadly, the judges wanted to get rid of her.
Scott is a show skater and never got the subtle femininity of Maria's skating, and Bezic is just... bitter.
nolaughingmatter 2 years ago 5
she was probably placed correctly (her marks were overly low though) but Scott doesn't know his ass from his elbow - he said Irina's program was nothing special either, when it should have been 1st
StewNWT 2 years ago 2
I love this music!!!!
mlc2005 3 years ago
Maria was undermarked in this short program.
Cellchuuk 3 years ago 3
shes good..i haven't heard of her though
sarah hughes is the best tho=]
after all why do you think she won the gold?
iceSk8erxoxo 3 years ago
Veru nice and interesting programe.
She is a great skater.
For me, she deseved for the technical merit 5.7 and artistic impression 5.8/5.9 and ther 3er place in short program.
1 Irina
2 Mihelle
3 Maria
900 Sarah (jajajaj)
Basileus1983 3 years ago
Scott's remark at the end is so off putting.. I loved the performance.. I think Maria puts skating in a dramatic flair.. I think all the top six women at the games really have their own unique style.. Fumie is calm and subdued.. Irina is atheletic yet charming.. Sasha has fire.. Michelle has the full package in a calm way.. and Sarah has a balletic presentation which is a little bouncy..
JeremiVW 3 years ago
How old was she here?? I wish skaters would not be pushed so fast when they're so young because it just leads to burnout and/or injury. I wish more skaters would stay in and compete for as long as Maria did!
indysk8r32 3 years ago 3
I agree. I think it's cool that Maria stayed around into her late 20s. Here I believe she is 29. Slutskaya was I think 26 when she won the bronze in Torino. I like to see that.
dylanvalente 3 years ago
Irina was 27 years old at Olympic Games. She born in 9 of february of 1979
xlutskaya 3 years ago
It's interesting. I ADORE and LOVE maria, but I can't figure this one out. Im not sure if it was that she was older and knew this was her last year, but she really chose relatively easy footwork and choreography. Her jumps were tight but clean, and her combo spin was excellent, but I think the bottom line for this one is that she was incredibly nervous. She said so in an interview right afterwards. This was in America with clear audience favorites. A difficult position. Still, i LOVE HER.
mlc2005 3 years ago
I love this music, and I adore Maria. I think she should have done something more special for the olympics. I mean, all of her other shorts in recent years were fantastic and full of energy. She skated this one slowly and the footwork was simply. I loved her combo spin though.
mlc2005 3 years ago
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Deserved 7th. Her expression here is so bad and her movement stifled. It's as if someone is choking her. Very stiff body and facial appearance. Just look at her in that forward spiral - it appears as if she is about to vomit. And then lifting her skirt up at the end...WOW. That was just desperate. Say what you want, Sarah Hughes deserved the higher placement. More pleasing performance, better Layback, better Spiral.
Zuranthium 3 years ago
Zuranthium, why do not you just say you did not like her because she is not from the US? You tend to bash all the non US skater. So just be honest .....
BigA3372 3 years ago
That's completely false. This was simply not a great performance and that's all there is to it.
Zuranthium 3 years ago
I don't like her hair... it looks shabby on her.
waddleduckie1 3 years ago
Slightly slow... but quite good overall. Classical music seems to suit her style best. She looks very tall, with long lines.
EmDash07 3 years ago 6
Gorgeous program. One of her best in terms of choreography. Too bad she couldn't execute.
jorje286 3 years ago 2
BTW Maria did not have good run out or deep edging on her spirals either. It is clear you just pick out the athletes you like more, whether they be American, Russian, Chinese, whatever, and look for ways to say they deserve to be over athletes you dont like by nitpicking any faults you can find, while ignoring those of your pet favorite athletes. Sorry it is too easy for anyone to do it, but to have it have credability is another thing.
diskplaying 3 years ago
Maria didn't have a good spiral here, but her jumps and spins were clean. Both Sasha and Sarah had mistakes ,as well as Kwan and had it been a fair competition, Butyrskaya would get higher presentation marks than Cohen and Hughes.
thesunny2007 3 years ago 3
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You are dimwit thrash. You really know nothing about gymnastics or skating. Thinking a gymnast who had a mediocre beam and bars routine (Mary Lou) deserved the AA gold over a gymnast great on all 4 events (Szabo). Thinking Ito is more artistic then Yamaguchi. Now saying Marias tediously slow boring skate with horrible jump landings, ragged spins, horrid spiral sequence, was better then Sasha or Sarah just because of minor faults like a bit of shallow edging or a flutz.
diskplaying 3 years ago
"minor faults like a bit of shallow edging or a flutz " ? What are you talking about?
Their triple lutz wasn't triple and wasn't even lutz ! Both had serious troubles with the jumps, Sarah underroted almost every triple jump in both programs as a result her 3/3 combo was really 3/2 and maybe 2/2 and she couldn't jump lutz. Sasha also underritated a lot ,her jumping technique is weak and flutz.
thesunny2007 3 years ago 4
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It is so funny when you calling me Eurothrash just for saying the way overrated Retton did not deserve the 84 Olympic AA over the great Szabo. Yet since then I have defended Americans like Hughes, Cohen, Yamaguchi to you vs foreign skaters you overrate. Yeah Sarah and Sasha have flaws but look at Marias skate. Badly stiff knees, horrible layback, the worst spirals, slow as a snail. Maria has some great shorts but not this one. Atleast Sarah and Sasha could do a layback and spiral properly.
diskplaying 3 years ago
If the Olympics were in Europe, Asia, or even Canada, anywhere but the U.S these would have been the results of the short program.
1. Irina Slutskaya
2. Maria Butyrskaya
3. Michelle Kwan
4. Fumie Suguri
5. Sasha Cohen
6. Julia Sebeysten
7. Sarah Hughes
Please god dont ever let another Olympics be held in the U.S. The over the top biased scoring anytime events in the U.S is pathetic.
quirotmutolafan 3 years ago 3
quirotmutolafan: I'm not sure I understand your logic re: bias judging in the US. Remember, the judging panel was not American; it was made up of one US judge, and rest mostly European. Further, in the final outcome, the judges put Kwan third behind Irina, when it could have gone either way; it there was serious bias here, Kwan would have surely beaten Irina. (Whether Irina actually deserved to be above Kwan is for another day). Your point is sort of unfounded really.
mlc2005 2 years ago
The Grand Prix final was held a month before the Olympics in Canada. Irina, Maria, and Michelle all had clean shorts and Irina was easily 1st with all 1st place ordinals, and Maria 2nd over Michelle on a 4-3 split. Yet here in the Olympics in the U.S Michelle someone how wins over Irina and Maria is down in 5th. Coincidence, LOL! In France Cohen had a clean short and was 3rd behind Maria (1st) and the #3 Russian Volchkova. Yet here in the Olympics in the U.S She is 3rd to Maria's 5th. Hmm.
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
and if you follow skating you would know home court skaters always have an advantage. Just look at the 2004 Worlds in Germans. Winkler & Lohse and Lindemann winning medals, WHAT!?! Those are skaters that were never close to the podium any other time in their careers. Look at how when Lysacek and Chan last year met, at 4CCs in Canada Chan destroys Evan and at Worlds in LA Evan wins. In this case the home court bias went both ways doubling the disparity. I could give examples forever here.
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
I didn't know the results after the short at the GPF, so that was quite interesting! I do follow skating, and I agree that there tends to be a home court advantage. I just disagree that, were it not for the games being in SLC, the results would be as you listed them. I think that's a stretch. I still don't understand how the same Hungarian judge gives one score in Canada/Europe and another in the US. I think it might be that the crowd makes it easier for US skaters to feel pumped.
mlc2005 2 years ago
Yes a home crowd can make home skaters seem more inspired. However I dont think that was the case here. Kwan had a cheated and shaky triple flip, Cohen had even better shorts this year, and Hughes was mediocre in the short. My standings are based on competitions previously the season and how judges had previously scored these skaters in the short going clean vs each other. Except for Hughes who I knock down extra since her short sucked. So I dont think they are unreasonable.
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
@quirotmutolafan Hmm... Where's Julia Sebestyen? She had a very nice skate there. And one of the best programs of the night.)
zenitrulit2 2 years ago
Well I didnt put her that high since her lack of international reputation means she would have been screwed over by the judges no matter where the Olympics was. If you follow figure skating I am sure you know that is part of how things work in the sport.
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
But she was good, though, admit it!)))
zenitrulit2 2 years ago
Yes she was. Her jumps were amazing that night.
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
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@quirotmutolafan No, Kwan wasn't clean. Maria has NEVER placed above Kwan when they've both skated cleanly. Maria might have gotten 4th in the SP at 2002 Olympics had the competition been held in RUSSIA, but she was absolutely not going to beat Kwan or Cohen with that performance regardless of any outside factors.
Zuranthium 1 year ago
I understand what you are saying, but I still don't get why the location has something to do with how non-US judges score skaters. I too disagree with the placements in SLC, but why do European and Asian judges mark a US skater differently in the US? Any theories as to why? The only I can think of is that they get swept up in the home town favorite fever.
mlc2005 2 years ago
I think they want to please the crowd. As you notice the U.S crowd imparticular is very patriotic almost to a fault and biased to U.S skaters. Look at how they boo Kwan's short program scores which were in fact probably too high. Look at how they boo Ina & Zimmeran's short program scores which were correct with both a shaky jump and shaky spin by him. I do get think they get intimidated to meet a home countries biased fans, and also get swept up in emotion and enthusiastic responses.
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
I would also add to that I think the Sale & Pelletier scandal were the U.S media flexed their muscles as their pressure was the biggest thing that made it happen intimidated the judges in future events Americans were contenders. Goebel even with all his quads I thought was overmarked. In womens there was hype of a sweep. So IMO they overmarked the U.S women, and undermarked people like Maria, Irina, and Fumie in the short since they wanted to keep a crowd pleasing U.S sweep possible.
quirotmutolafan 2 years ago
i love the music for the sp. however, i hated how she raises her skirt in the end. it's like a nun who becomes a prostitute
sekretaznman81 3 years ago 4
the most accurate result would have been...
1 slutskaya
2 kwan
3 cohen
4 sebestyen (GREAT sp!)
5 arakawa
6 butyrskaya (good jumps but TERRIBLE program, wtf was she thinking)
7 hughes (no comment necessary)
splinterlake 3 years ago
arakawa wasn't even in slc
sekretaznman81 3 years ago
my bad. i meant suguri.
splinterlake 3 years ago
I would agree mostly , it's just that arakawa really didn't take part in the event and I would put Butyrskaya ahead of Sebestyen .Suguri behind both Maria and Juliya, Hughes - 7.
hatula87 3 years ago
As usual you are wrong, proving again what a fool you are when it comes to both skating and gymnastics. If you knew anything about figure skating this was a bad short program for Maria by her standards, even with no major mistakes. Much much slower then usual, more timid, tenative. Her short from Europeans or the GP final that year would have made her competitive with Kwan and Slutskaya in the Olympic short. This short came nowhere near her better ones that season, thus 5th.
5th place.
diskplaying 3 years ago
It's not about Maria's standarts - it's about the overall standarts. Maria's SP was much better than Hughes .Fumie had flutz and not the best presentation ,though I think she should still beat Sarah.Cohen was pretty fair placed third despite the mistakes- she was fast ,sharp, best spins and best spirals.Butyrskaya should have been 4th,Sebastien - 5th,Suguri- 6,Hughes-7.
hatula87 3 years ago
Diskplaying it does not matter what her standards were as far as were she should have placed. Yes this wasnt her best short program but it was still much better then Hughes and probably better then Cohen who back then had no edges or speed.
robinsongentle 3 years ago 2
AWW, thats mean, nothing was truly special. well he skating was pretty.
sayomsskiver 3 years ago
This program was pretty clean but for her usual short program standards it was garbage. It was so slow and tenative and her elements were shaky and weak compared to her usual. That is why she finished 5th when she is often 1st or 2nd in the short. I agree maybe she still should have been over Hughes though, and if she was Hughes would not have won the gold medal overall.
grafgirl27 4 years ago 6
she deserved 4th place here
xlutskaya 4 years ago 2
I loved this program. Beautiful music, nice jumps, good spins, and every movement she made drew me in that much more.
whitevinegar 4 years ago
her costume is very nice!
12345671234567899999 4 years ago
1:52 Her best ever combo spin. NBC commentators were always harsh on Maria. :(
ostar85 4 years ago
She can have stiff landings but her technic is one of the best. her curves into the jumps are excelents. outside edge and inside edge in take off of lutz and flip!
She deserved the third place in this short program, over Sara Hughs!
xlutskaya 4 years ago 3
Exactly, we can admire her continuing, it's not like tara, sarah and Arakawa ^^.
j0han64 4 years ago
I agree, she wasn't the best, but she was always stiff on her jumps, it was just her thing. I think in terms of placement this should have been around 5-6, but not 10th.
StewNWT 4 years ago
Whoopd, sorry I was confusing this with another skate, of course she did end up 5-6 (though some her ordinals were pretty whacky.)
StewNWT 4 years ago
well her jumps were good, but she was slow, and this program is by far her most boring and worst-choreographed. every other short program she's had was light years ahead of this in terms of choreography and highlighting her strengths.
this program makes her looks.... creaky.
splinterlake 4 years ago
I liked this performance as well, but all you have to do is listen to the commentary to see why and how she placed where she did.
twilliger123 4 years ago
I remember being pissed too, she got so undermarked for this program. I loved her attack, and was so glad when she won in 1999. And for 29!!!! Crazy - only Jennifer Robinson got better with age the way Maria did. 5.2? 5.0?!? Insane. You can't give someone 5.0 when they land all their jumps!
StewNWT 4 years ago 3
It's not only about landing the jumps, it's about landing them...pretty. Sure, she nailed everything, however she was stiffer than a tree and that was reflected in her marks. The marks were fair.
rockomoto 4 years ago
they are retarded. They didn't give her much credit when she won the WC, they won't give for this one.
jorje286 4 years ago
I will never forget how mad I got at the commentators on this program, particularly the woman. Maria was 29 years old, and this was to be her last performance. I remember when Katarina Vitt came back from retirement in the prior Olympics, and Scott Hamilton was in awe that she was landing double axels.
This World Champion should have been given more respect by the American broadcasters... Go Maria!
mlc2005 4 years ago 3
Very respectable performance. I admire her continuing to skate at this level at a relatively advanced age.
suraaldy 4 years ago 2
can you upload her long program please
nemoismypet 4 years ago