Photo-etching printed circuit board (homebrew PCB)

[MrOverdriver]

Ottimo inglese...complimenti! Ottimo anche il video ;)

[elgareb2008]

you are so complicated

the paper and iron is good

[shivaniits]

its really very informative.thanks so much for your effort in it!.i do wanna ask that most PCB we use and see have copper tracks on green color substrate why is it so?do we use it to make copper tracks visible on green color

[kurt123]

Very Informative, thank you for taking the time to make it.

You want to add acid to water (or peroxide) because the reaction is exothermic. Adding water to acid can result in the water boiling and spraying boiling acid everywhere.

[vittoriobelardo]

ma a che serve????

[cwedds86]

It's much safer to add acid/h202 to water instead of vice versa. You don't want the highly concentrated chemicals splashing.

[lionangel87]

innanzitutto complimenti per il tutorial. premettendo che non ci capisco niente, ho letto su vari forum che si deve utilizzare l'acqua ossigenata a 130 volumi (non so neanche cosa vuol dire) ma ho notato che la comune acqua ossigenata è a 10 volumi. posso utilizzarla comunque? se sì, devo cambiare i rapporti di soluzione? e questo influisce sul risultato? scusa le mille domande ma sono un novizio.

[jeneffingrules]

Interesting..



[videotater]

multo grazi!

[eightsydre]

mmm...sai poster della juve a da eagle in italiano, mi sa che tu non sei 100% americano...:)

[TheMedinadenis]

what are the names of the substances? one is acid cloridric, and other is soda caustic but i cant hear the third one??? can you help me, thanks the method looks fine

[husam27]

what happens if you expose it for more than a minute?

[st2nh]

Thank you for sharing

[chloe7829]

Couldn't you hold the camera steady or use a tripod? It drives you nuts trying to watch what you are doing.

[First2ner]

laser printer transfer method = THE BEST

[Daimo988]

dude, ur accent makes me want to sleep.....thats not an insult either haha

[refa42]

I'd guess that it seemed to etch all the copper at once because you have new and relatively strong etch solution and you agitate it so it etches uniformly. This is a good thing of course.

I'd also guess that the beauty of using HCl and hydrogen peroxide is that it's reusable a long time because it stays quite clear and dissolved copper helps. You only have to "fresh" it by adding acid from time to time. Just keep it in large enough container.

I know nothing about this so don't take me seriously.

[jacktheripper00]

grazie e complimenti per il video... ho una domanda: con il tuo metodo descritto, posso usare il percloruro ferrico nel processo di etching al posto dell'acido muriatico essendo quest'ultimo decisamente più pericoloso? (lo è anche il percloruro ferrico, ma almeno non ti devi preoccupare delle ustioni!). carina l'idea del bromografo nello scanner! mi sa che me lo costruisco anche io...

[jollino]

@jacktheripper00 puoi tranquillamente usare il classico percloruro ferrico da solo, ma non credo che mischiarlo all'acqua ossigenata sia una buona idea. :) in bocca al lupo!

[jacktheripper00]

@jollino fa una brutta reazione? e se dopo la soda caustica lavassi la basetta con acqua normale e poi dopo usassi percloruro ferrico?

[eagle1]

could you email/message me the materials you used and its step by step

thank you,

daryl

[happygamestvfun1]

i use circiut wizzard and altium ;)

[scavenom2008]

ALL THAT SHIT GOING TO THE DRAIN WE FOR SURE ARE SUCKING UP THIS LAND ...BUT SO WHAT..HU

[SparkyValentine86]

Great video. Just one heads up. I'm a chem minor and I can elaborate on the acid into peroxide video. The only reason you pour acid into peroxide is because the substance you our pouring into is more likely to splash out. For that same reason you always pour acid into water when you dilute it.

[donnyab]

you sound like the italian christopher walken

[ericmathison1]

@donnyab

He sounds absolutely, positively, _nothing_ like Christopher Walken to me...?

[bogusbyte]

Nice video... but i had to fastforward it at many points...Kinda ... hmmm "do this... then do it again... and do it again... and again... ish "... But again a nice video :)

[killhimordie]

Lol so right

[4s4m4d]

I think you wasting to much water

[harleyhoward2006]

Have you tryed to design multi-layer boards?

[shredBucketheadshred]

that modded scanner is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT VID! lots of help! well done

[SpiralPyro]

haha 2:21 alot of colrs haha

[MrThndrpmkn]

who wants to be my german friend :D i want one

[KURACPO]

nice video....good joob

[martinkjlarsson]

This was really helpful! THANKS!!!

[martinkjlarsson]

This was really, really helpful! THANKS!!!

You should not mix water into acid because the the water is lighter and will just lay on the surface. Since it gets hot it might come spatter of water/acid flying around. However, if you carefully pure the acid into the water the acid will sink and there wont be any spatter.

That's what I've been told. :D

[acexprt]

wow.. i know absolutely nothing about circuit boards.. and i watched ur whole video. very nice.. i never knew thats how they were made.. Great job. i just might get into this and pick it up as a career.

[Mushketer888]

good job...keep going!

[jocamp2]

oye webon no desperdicies el agua

[AkuryuBakuRyuuha]

c'è la versione italiana ? cmq complimentoni :)

[jollino]

temo di no, ma non dovrebbe essere difficile da seguire anche solo "guardando le figure" :)

se hai dubbi sono qui!

[tarmogr]

so mmuch bullcrp and so little info in this loong video. It's helpful though

[myAVRTom]

What a fantastic explanation! Nothing can go wrong again. Thanks a lot.

[goompapa]

Thank you very much for making this video. Nice work!

[cnasterodon]

Thanks for the video. Quite informative. Also gave me a great idea on how to make use of my old scanner i have laying around, collecting dust :)

[beargrylls83]

Scusa ancora, in che proporzione vanno acqua , acqua ossigenata e acido muriatico? e dove si puo' comprare l' acido muriatico in quelle concentrazioi?

Saluti da un compaesano Teramano !!!

( complimenti per il tuo inglese, sembri madrelingua )

[jollino]

2 parti di H2O2 e 1 parte di HCl. L'acido cloridrico dev'essere al 25%, io l'ho trovato nel BricoIo del centro commerciale Megalò qui a Chieti a €180/l (se non erro); in pratica è quello usato per le piscine. Non so se quello al 10%, che è più comune, vada bene lo stesso. Il perossido d'idrogeno è quello comunemente usato come disinfettante. Con un po' di fortuna basta un giro in un centro commerciale ben fornito, altrimenti un negozio di fai da te. :)

[beargrylls83]

Ciao , ho visto che hai collegato la demoboard alla porta parallela, L' hai usata come alimentatore ? Quanti ampere caccia ? Si potrebbe fare anche con la porta usb per piccoli circuiti , invece di comprare un alimentatore stabilizzato da banco

[jollino]

Veramente è un convertitore TTL-RS232 per AVR...

[magicpurple101]

where can you get the boards?

[jollino]

Any store that sells electronic components should have them. If you live in the US, I suppose that Radio Shack will have them.

[cjmitz]

if in UK, get them from rapid electronics

[rogoxn]

Ciao, ho seguito il tuo video (completo davvero!), volevo chiederti un chiarimento se possibile. Il mio inglese fa un po' schifo e dal video non sono riuscito a capire che acido hai usato e con cosa l'hai diluito (l'altra bottiglia).

Ti ringrazio Ale1

[jollino]

La bottiglia grande è acido idrocloridrico (comune acido muriatico), quella piccola è perossido di idrogeno (per gli amici acqua ossigenata). Ti serve l'acido muriatico con concentrazione 30%-35%, ossia quello "da piscina". Quello al 5% usato comunemente in casa non è adatto.

[rogoxn]

scusa se ti rompo ancora le scatole, ma il perossido d'azzoto in che concentrazione va usato??

[jollino]

perossido d'idrogeno! la normale acqua ossigenata per le ferite che trovi al supermercato va benissimo.

[mrmgarabet]

Hi,

Thanks for so detailed video. At the end of video you are speaking about the drilling machine. With the Dremel work station (the vertical stand) is clear. Could you provide information about the rotary tool, the brand and the model.

Thank you

[DarkBusterXYZ]

compa deberia intentar el cloruro ferrico mas rapido y sin riesgo de envenenamiento o gases toxicos

[Manekinen]

Hey dude, great tutorial. BUT. Use thiner drills! I am using 0.7mm for resistors, thin capacitors and stuff, 0.8mm for thicker ones. Never use 1mm for that small holes. 1mm is for goldpins or connectors, but i prefer 0.9mm, it fits tight.

[NKB0304]

Googles those stuff to protect your eyes

[sougiasdj]

WoW that is amazing video /tutorial.Soon icome up with some questions... 5 star :)

[jollino]

You still need to remove it where you have to solder, though :)

[armed23ogm]

What brand PCB did you use?

[fozzyozzy106]

are u for real??

[joshlwilson]

i hink he means software

[ZuzoFriend]

Great video. The word for eye protection is safety glasses or goggles.

[weavtech]

what is the make and model of the bulbs yo are using and if possable the soccets and ballast if you have that

[donnyab]

hi wanted to ask you, sometimes when you see home-made boards the copper lines seem to be very thick whereas using these pre-clad boards the copper seems very thin, is there a need and a technique to make the lines thicker for heavier current, what current would these pre-clad boards take ? thanks

[nikwalnikwal]

dont use too much weight , the glass itself might bend,

[San5a]

non pensavo fossi italiano(bell'accento)

Chiedevo se il materiale stampato sopra è gia connettore o bisogna collegare con lo stagno?? Grazie

[jollino]

Grazie. :)

Ciò che resta alla fine del processo è rame: è sufficiente saldare i componenti alle piastre dopo averli infilati nei buchi (o direttamente se si usano componenti a montaggio superficiale). In teoria si potrebbe passare una vernice protettiva sulle tracce (tranne che sulle piastre), ma a meno che il circuito non venga usato in ambienti estremi non c'è nessun problema: questo circuito ce l'ho sulla scrivania, "nudo", dall'estate scorsa!

[San5a]

you know how can I Iink the circuit holes? I have to use the soldering and put some tin to link hole to hole??

[kawless]

Use ventilation for these kinds of chemicals, lol

Protection isn't going to help much if very toxic gas has no where to go

[0p0f0]

if i was u i wouldnt put it in any kind of sunlught

[jollino]

Certainly it's not a process to carry out in bright sunlight, but I found that limited exposure to mild sunlight (ie. shaded) has no adverse effect whatsoever. YMMV :)

[breezebro]

Great video! You might get better results printing in color with 100% black and 100% cyan. That's what printing companies do to print a black that's really black instead of a browninsh black. A local printing co. might give you a small vacuum frame which will draw the film down to the board perfectly without tape.

[drox81]

Grazie a te per averlo fatto , ma uno in italiano così capisco meglio i passaggie i prodotti!!! :D Grande

[HASANENQASEM]

good work ,but how can download this video

[saseto66]

write me pm i`ll tell u

[lynxx2]

Brilliant!

[eroberts00]

You should not be emptying your copper solution into the drain. Even in low concentrations copper ions (the dissolved copper) are dangerous, especially to fish and other aquatic life. I do not believe they are removed by any of the wate treatment processes and will end up in the natural watershed. But otherwise, a very nice video.

[gettingitfirst4]

Good job! The cover for the eyes are called safety glasses to protect your eyes. Can you do a video on the Eagle program. I'm having a problem using it. When i click add there seems to be no libary.

[Mindsore]

i came across this while researching how to make my own guitar effects pedals, have to say i was very impressed with the quality of this video, well done )

[jollino]

Thank you very much. :)

I plan to start dealing with electronics again this summer, and possibly make additional videos. Right now, unfortunately, time is fairly scarce.

[Kenzofeis]

Also, you can store the etching fluid, also the caustic solvent (for some time) and reuse until it gets "dull" - this saves the environment some.

Fe-II-Cl is ok for amateur etching (less dangerous and more controllable), but it will stain clothes and equip with "rust".

Acetone is ok for removal of the laquer after etching, and steel wool can be used to rub clean.

[Kenzofeis]

Also, when the Fe-III-Cl is starting to get "lazy" you can "sharpen" it a bit with a little bit concentrated salt acid, but beware that this acid is damn strong and very dangerous. Use dishwashing rubber gloves, latex or vinyl ones are no good, and use glasses when handling dangerous stuff like this. Rinse the gloves in running water after.

Some breathing protection may also be a good idea along with opening a window...

[kroag]

Thank you very much for this great tut.

Filled me with confidence to try it myself.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Very good tutorial. However, photo sensitive boards are quite expensive and you get only one shot to get it right else the board is wasted, and you need a UV bed.

I've been using the toner transfer method from glossy photo paper with very good results. If it doesn't look good the first time I can just wipe it off with acetone and try again. The only disadvantage is I can't use HCl/H2O2 solution to etch. It lifts the toner negative from the copper prematurely. FeCl does not.

[jollino]

That's right, photo-etching can be fairly expensive and you definitely have to invest time and money into mistakes at first. The good thing is that once you have every parameter defined, the results are consistent and easily reproducible. (Provided you do it often enough, because otherwise you end up forgetting something... as it happens to me! :)

I have tried toner transfer but I never got it to work. Maybe it was the wrong kind of paper, but it just never came out precise enough.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

No doubt that the results are much more precise using the photo method. Using photo paper can be tricky. As you heat the paper and board both expand unevenly. That's what causes the blurring.

The key is developing the proper technique with the iron when transferring to the copper. You have to start at one end with the wide side of the iron and work slowly to the other side.

There is a special paper made called Toner Transfer Paper designed especially for this use that I also plan to try.

[Kenzofeis]

You can buy photopositive spray-"paint" to use on clean boards, like if you had to wipe off the original laquer.

It may take some training to get it correct, and also it must be done dust free, but still, you may recover some faulty developed boards.

In the exposure unit you could try to apply some sort of vacuum to the glass/foil thing by a thin tube

[dubzga]

this is an excellent very informative video, but i started cracking up @ 20:35 when you said...i take no responsibilty if you kill yourself...

[jeffnicq]

very good job. can plz you write down the program names you used in this process.

thanks

[jollino]

The program is called EAGLE and you can find it by googling up "EAGLE cad". I tried to post the link in a reply to your comment, but the comment was not posted!

[ohmannhey]

Copper oxide is either black (CuO) or red (Cu2O). The green stuff is copper cloride which results from a reaction between copper and the hydrochloric acid.

CuO(s) + 2 HCl(aq) → CuCl2(aq) + H2O(l)

Thank you for the video .. very good.

[jollino]

Thank you for your clarification!

[dazziola]

I suddenly wana make my own circuit boards! just as a matter of interest, for what device/use did you make that one for?! great video! Thanks!

[jollino]

It is an RS232 transceiver based on the Maxim MAX232 integrated circuit.

I made a dedicated one so I could re-use it on different projects without having to prepare a different one every time: I simply connect Tx and Rx as they come out from my AVR (ie. at TTL voltages) and power it. It just works. :)

[killitb]

This is by far the most complete video and explanation I have found after days of searching the web of circuit boards.

Some of the techniques (such as the transfer onto the copper and the etching) could be done easier from what i've seen.

Instead of using transparent paper and then exposing it you could use gloss paper and just press it with a clothing iron. And when you etch it would be alot faster to use ferric chloride.

But of course you are the expert and I thank you for this video.

[jollino]

Hello, thanks for your thanks. :)

I don't recall whether I mentioned this in the video or not, but I have attempted the toner transfer method and I found it to be much harder to reproduce than UV exposure and development. Once you figure out the correct timing for the exposure and the development, you can pretty much do them on the first attempt, while ironing requires using proper paper (some say magazines, others say photo paper, etc.) with the proper pressure. It is also very easy [continues]

[jollino]

[continued] for the paper to "slip" on the board, so thin traces are quite hard to get. In any case, it's very likely that I'm just too goofy to get it to work properly. ;)

I never used ferric chloride, but I'm not sure it would be faster. From what I read, it is faster only if it's heated up, while my solution of HCl and H2O2 works fairly quickly (especially if you have ground planes, which you should have anyway) at ambient temperature. It is not really stockable, though!

[evolution2015]

Hi, now i`m beginning to understand. when you say, photoresist, do you mean the ink from the printer or is it one of the other chemicals you are using. thank you

[jollino]

No, photoresist is the common name that *resists* etching but can be exposed through light (hence the 'photo' part of the word). It is used as a mask to protect some areas of the copper, that is your circuit's traces, from etching.

[evolution2015]

Hi, how come the etching proses doesn`t eat away the copper under the ink.

sorry for all the questions. what stops it from doing this. thank you

[jollino]

It is not the ink itself. The copper is covered by a layer of photoresistive material which acts as a mask and can be exposed with ultraviolet light. You print on a transparency and use that to cover the area that has to remain, then you develop the photoresist in water + caustic soda (which removes the photoresist everywhere, EXCEPT where the ink worked as a mask and prevented it from being exposed), and then you etch the area where the copper is without any photoresist left.

[evolution2015]

Hi, that`s amazing. i guess i`ll have to try this proses and see what happens. thanks for the great video and all your time answering my questions.

[kydjester]

hello, this is a well done video. Is it possible to use that process to create a double sided board/ multi layer board.

If it is could you post your taughts on the matter or perhaps an example by video. Any insight would be grealy appreciated.

[jollino]

It is indeed possible to use this system for double-sided boards, but not multi-layer ones. I don't think that there is any "do it yourself" way to make them.

However, I have never tried to make any multi-layer boards yet; I don't even know if the stores in my area carry them regularly. As soon as I'm there next time, I'll ask and possibly buy a few of them, and experiment. When I'm confident, I'll make a video.

Thanks for the idea!

[evolution2015]

Hi, great job. what is that board called and where can i buy it. thank you

[jollino]

Thank you for the compliment. :)

The board is simply called "photoresistive board" or "photosensitive board". It is a normal copper board with the copper layer covered by photoresist. You can also buy photoresist paint in a spray can, but from what I read it's hard to apply it evenly and it's probably not worth the case.

[tomokeia]

dani! :D

[evolution2015]

Hi, thanks for the info. when you say, normal copper board, do you mean this is a solid piece of copper,

if so, wouldn`t the circuit leads short out after they are soldered? thank you

[jollino]

Yes, copper boards are simple sheets of fiberglass or bakelite covered with a layer of solid copper on one side. The etching process (shown at 19:00 in the video) "eats up" the copper where the photoresist has been removed by the developing of the board (14:00). Basically, the remaining photoresist works as a mask and protects the copper where you want the traces to be.