Intro to Permaculture 2 - The Current State of Agriculture

[benskin79]

SO, if we need to reduce the population, who shall get the axe? Anyone who wants to advocate killing off the majority of humans needs to be killed themselves, along with their families, in full public view, accompanied by their own words. Anything else would be hypocrisy, wouldn't it? I sincerely doubt that they are the most evolved among us, as they tend to be the privileged class themselves. They cannot survive without their privilege, so they would be poor evolutionary choices. Who, then?

[Swansen03]

@benskin79 no killing off, just stop mindlessly having sex and creating offspring without any idea of what is actually happening or being done via this process. but, thats more involved than just that statement, i don't blame anyone for this.

[benskin79]

@Swansen03

Okay, so who should stop reproducing? That will mean a statistical culling, but on the human level, individuals will have to opt out of the gene pool, and evolutionary progression. They will no longer have a legacy. Who should do this? Who should be unable to continue their line? For that matter, who is reproducing at above minimum replacement rates, and who is not keeping up already? Or, is everyone reproducing the same? We cannot reduce without allowing less life, right?

[Swansen03]

@benskin79 no man, i'm not suggesting overt control, i am suggesting understanding of ones self, via personal growth, which society at large subverts. If you allow yourself to step into what you are, you'll come to realize some things. i don't know what sex is, or even creating life is, i don't really understand it, i understand the biology, i get life, i don't know what really creating it is. I don't care about my "legacy" or some BS some one said we are suppose to have, nor am i worried

[benskin79]

@Swansen03

The concept of "legacy" is no more "BS" than the concepts you propose we need, i.e. "understanding of one[']s self, via personal growth".

Legacy is not just a concept, either- it is the tangible succession of your life's efforts, invested into your offspring.

If you do not care about your legacy, then by all means, refrain from reproduction. I can tell you this, however- no amount of "personal growth" will fix the resource issues we face. For that we need tangible work.

[benskin79]

@Swansen03

If you are only concerned with the "whole", and not the "parts", then how do humans get cast as the role of cancer? The details aren't supposed to be easy, and I agree that we are in a mess. Did you know that "Native Americans" were irresponsible enough to cause animal and human extinctions, for no other reason than greed? It's easy to say spiritual-sounding things, and then step away, feeling wise and enlightened, but practical solutions require structured thoughts.

[paulpellicci]

When the land will no longer work for the factory farmers, they can collect business interuption insurance while the people starve....very wise business move. The B*^@*&^S

[MidwestPermaculture]

Population is indeed an ever increasing problem but I don't think that "control" is the answer. Who will be in control? Who will let themselves be controlled? Isn't it control of nature that got us into this whole mess in the first place?

I think you've answered your own question, making each person a benefit to society is the solution. If we follow that path nature will help us take care of population all by itself.

[onefourdelta]

the biggest problem with the current system has it that each human is a burden to the system. we need birth control we need population control we need to reduce the populaiton to 1/2 billion people...

a more labor intensive system a permaculture system would make each person needed and a benefit to society. the system will build on itself and generate more habitat for man and animal

[Swansen03]

@onefourdelta yeah thats one thing that seems to be really misunderstood, food forests ARE reforestation, and it greatly helps the land.

[tomjoadsteinbeck]

pmarinch, isn't it one of the problems that we are facing in the world economy that we need to create more jobs? most jobs involve working

[pmarinich]

Interesting topic. But you can't compare 10 acres of vegetable farming to 640 acres of grain farming. Apples to oranges. Vegetables are very labor intensive and 10 A is a lot for that. Whereas grain crops have more automation in planting, harvesting, and handling. We are organic farmers w/ 400 A. I agree that it's more profitable vs. chemical farming, but again more labor intensive.

[FishyMoe]

@pmarinich well with the extra profits you could invest into ways to reduce labor intensity