Jehovah's Witnesses FAQ's #4: Why aren't you one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

[FrankMayans]

Everyone is imperfect. This is the point of view of one outsider. I'm not a JW but I myself studied like yourself and your view regarding the "body" is inaccurate. Idk why I clicked this video lol

[funbylucy]

thank you for sharing ! I am a Born again christian and Really feel for those who are with the watchtower. My boyfriend of 5 yrs has just recently turned from his RELIGION and come to JESUS. Its a struggle because his family is JW and they just have the wrong understanding . Right now THey have been saying that Christmas is the devil. HOw are we christians supposed to deal with this . His sister is a JW but you can see that the fruit shes bearing is not of the holy spirit . Its frustrating.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 so...are you saying that you don't want to have another discussion like the one we had? I really would like to discuss the Scriptures with you as it relates to the eternal destiny of Christians.

But have you perhaps considered that YOU are the one who isn't willing to agree on anything? If you read through the discussion, you are the one challenging me and i'm simply answering based upon my convictions and beliefs.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 1. I've gone over the false/dead faith plenty of times with you. Its a semantics issue that makes perfect sense to myself and many others.

2. Confusing research with thinking? Don't you have to think to do research? Am I thinking independently when i'm researching and challenging what the WT teaches?

3. Obviously, the article said group study. But whether one does independent thinking in group or individually, the WT discourages both.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 And I can say that I corrected you with proof about 25 times, but we both remain unconvinced of the other's viewpoint. In this case, i'll let the audience decide for themselves.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 Keep in mind that you're the one who "felt a need to disagree" with my terminology. I've sought to clarify what I said and resort to biblical language to identify what I mean by "true" and "false" faith. If you don't like my terminology, that's fine. I've been using this terminology for years upon years and you're the first, even among JW's, who have disputed it. As for not admitting to mistakes, that's just extremely presumptuous on your part.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 are you referring to my use of the words "true" and "false?" I never claimed that these were "biblical terms," but simply used them to describe what I find to be biblical concepts. Though I don't find these terms to be inconsistent with James 2 and the faith described therein, I can see how you would disagree with my use of them. And that's ok, which is why I found it more helpful to just use biblical terminology rather than get into an argument over semantics.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 Again, this is just semantics. There are two types of faith: dead faith and faith which produces good works. The latter justifies and the former does not. I don't want to get caught up in what you want to call it.  In this case, I think its more helpful to just use biblical terminology.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 you are entitled to believe whatever you want about me, but I would be happy to defend anything I believe with Scriptural backing.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 semantics, its not a faith that can save, that's my point. I don't care what one calls it. "Dead faith" might be the best way since that's the language Scripture uses.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 James 2:17-20 makes this contrast. There are two types of faiths described: a dead faith and a true faith. The latter is one that produces good works. The former does not.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 its applied by *saving* faith (not a false faith, James 2:20). This is precisely what Paul said in Romans 4:5. The type of faith that saves is one that will lead to good works and repentance. But its not the good works and repentance that justify you.

[theapologeticfront]

@worldhistory2011 I'm referring to works in the sense in which Paul described them in texts like Ephesians 2:8-9 or Romans 4:5. These would refer to keeping the commandments like loving one's neighbor, loving God, feeding the poor, etc. Basically, what i'm saying is in line with the Scriptures: we are not made right with God based upon how good we are, but upon Christ's atonement and imputed righteousness (Romans 5:9, 2 Corinthinans 5:21).

[eternityandforever]

The elders at the Kingdom Hall do follow the bible. They take the lead, just as they were instructed.1 Thessoalonians 2:1-14.verse 11,In harmony with that YOU well know how, as a father does his children, we kept exhorting each one of YOU, and consoling and bearing witness to YOU...1 Thessalonians 5:12,Now we request YOU, brothers,to have regard for those who are working hard among YOU and presiding over YOU in (the) Lord and admonishing YOU:...You claim they don't follow apostles, but they do.

[00sheilagreasley100]

You said that you have studied the scriptures with Jehovah's Witnesses and yet the simple truth is not in you - If yhou do not understand the 2 class principles - One is heavenly that is the rulers and the others are earthly that is the subjects - if you show me a dog and i explain that to him he will understand - Obviously truth is not in you or either you want to make yourselves known by the men of the world

Sheila

[theapologeticfront]

@00sheilagreasley100 Explain to me this: according to Luke 13:28, who will be *in* the kingdom of God?

[00sheilagreasley100]

@theapologeticfront Yes I agree with Luke 13:28 when it says that Abraham/Isaac/Jacob and all the other prophets will be in God's Kingdom - Let us look at the British Isles and her kingdom which the Island where I am from form part of that Kingdom and there are people in Grenada that do not know the Queen personally but yet they obeyed her laws - read Matthew 5:3-5 and you will see the 2 class system spoken of

Sheila

[theapologeticfront]

@00sheilagreasley100 Ok, so you concede that they will be in the kingdom. Now, tell me this: according to John 3:3, who are those that will then *see* the kingdom? As for Matt. 5, I don't see anything about two classes. Contextually, those who "inherit the earth" are the same who "enter the kingdom of heaven."

[ssjRaina]

ah! I did the same thing! 4 years though :( tried to get my friend out....

[afterraincomessun]

the governing body is a logic and peaceful instrument defending Jehovah and Jesus.

As far as you donot agree you are dissagreeing with the bible ,anyone can see .

in Jesus age the end of that system came and Jesus warned for the signs and flee from the destruction of Jerusalem.

Right in our days we are to flee from this false religion which is unclean: Babylon the great because the day surely will come that God will judge her the whore of Revelation. Check out if your church is no part of it!

[theapologeticfront]

@afterraincomessun If you'd really like to discuss any of this with me, i'd be happy to explain my views in more detail and also to understand why you think that i'm disagreeing with the Bible: 678-208-9153 or Skype: theapologeticfront

[brofun]

let's look at that..was there not a governing body in jerusalem?..did they not make the decisions on questions that were the authoratative answer? As for works..the bible says "faith without works is dead. We do NOT say that works gain us salvation. That is a LIE! If you care to discuss this openly, feel free.

[afterraincomessun]

@brofun

part 1 what is more interesting thats this:

Jesus was rejected by the majority of the jews .

think about that if you are not making the same mistake:

1 Peter 2:1-25

7 It is to YOU, therefore, that he is precious, because YOU are believers; but to those not believing, “the identical stone that the builders rejected has become [the] head of [the] corner,” 8 and “a stone of stumbling and a rock-mass of offense.” These are stumbling because they are disobedient to the word.

[afterraincomessun]

@brofun part 2 if one is to be saved it is by faith with works

and it is by Jehovah and Jesus:

revelation 7:10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

works are one ingredient but faith in the right persons is also important.

the many churches that fail to defend the moral standards of the bible will be judged.

when they say that you are saved by grace they in fact mean to say works are not so important

[dahacker2312]

(continued) will get saved . Here think about it this way. You go to work for a whole week but do nothing throughout the whole time that your at work then you go to your boss and say "ok I'm ready for my paycheck" do you really think he's gonna pay you

[rachelbinto]

@dahacker2312 "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Rom 4:4-5)

Salvation is not an obligation of God to pay us for our good deeds. Salvation is a free gift to us, given when we were helpless to do anything to deserve it.(Rom 5:6-8) The Bible says that salvation is NOT like a worker earning wages. I pray you accept it!

[FairNskware]

@rachelbinto

Putting aside " works" altogether, make me understand how a Christian accomplishes "faith alone" as you are teaching?

[rachelbinto]

@FairNskware "for IT IS GOD WHO WORKS in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." (Phil 2:13)

"May God... equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may HE WORK IN US what is pleasing to him." (Heb 13:20-21)

We are not saved because we do so many good things that God takes note and just has to save us to pay us our due wages. By our faith in God, God works in us to do His will. We cannot credit ourselves for any of it. To God be the Glory.

[FairNskware]

@rachelbinto I agree with you. Works alone can't save us...that's like trying to earn your salvation which is contrary to scripture. What I don't get is why you teach " faith alone" will save you even though you recognize that "by our faith in God, God works in us to do His will"(which requires works). Can't you see the contradiction. Can't you see that faith that is not backed by works is DEAD which really means that you have no faith at all if you don't prove it.

[rachelbinto]

@FairNskware I think you are misrepresenting what those outside the WT believe. Neither Mike nor I is advocating getting saved and sitting on a couch waiting for this life to end in order to enter the next. The faith comes first and then works will follow. But we are not proving to God who great WE are, but are showing the world how great GOD is. He is the one that enables us to do His will. He is the one that saves us. This is nothing for us to boast about. It is not of us.

[FairNskware]

@rachelbinto I'm not arguing with anyone who believes that faith comes first,then works follows....as this is true. But I don't think you truly believe that enough to motivate yourself to actually become a doer of these words.James 1:22. Ask yourself?

Which religion is showing their faith by their works? Only Jw's as a group seem to have the works that follow the faith you mention.They are following the command of Jesus..., the works in Matt 28:19,20 to preach and teach until the end.

[rachelbinto]

@FairNskware None of us can "motivate ourselves". God motivates and provides the power and circumstances for us to do His will. I see so many JWs say that they are proud to be JWs, but pride is incompatible with a relationship with God. You are pointing people to an organization and saying "look how great WE are", but Christians know that it is how great GOD is and point people to Him directly. To see some of how Christians spread the gospel look up "Voice of the Martyrs".

[FairNskware]

@rachelbinto Freewill enables us to "motivate" ourselves by our own desires Yes, God motivates us to a certain degree but we are also responsible for motivating ourselves to do his will as we need to show God that we want to serve him willingly. What better way than to preach about his kingdom and direct all sorts of people to the truth of the bible. I boast because I have insight and knowledge of the true God. Jer 9:24

[dahacker2312]

You see what we teach isn't anything bad . We are just trying to save you from dieing eternaly .. And that that just with faith but no work will save u is a complete lie becuase it says in the bible that god does not like inactive hands. Also Jesus said " not everyone that says sir sir"

[entrsnm3]

@dahacker2312 Your argument isn't with me, but with the apostle Paul: “But to the one *who does not work*, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,”

(Romans 4:5)

[TheMatt951]

u r telling lies man!!!!!! do u no how much that feels!!!!! the watchtower is not false u liar!!!!!!!!!!! ur just probably jealous u idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and wat they teach do save us!!!!!! it is impossible for god to lie!!!!! we never depend on our works!!!!! accually, jehovah makes everything for us!!! we r a baby to jah and he is our father, a great father!! he sacrificed his only son jesus just for us to have a 2nd chance!!!!!! u shut up about us u idiot!!! we r good people!!! u r wicked!!!

[entrsnm3]

@TheMatt951 “A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.”

(Proverbs 15:1)

“The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition,”

(2 Timothy 2:24–25)

[TheMatt951]

@entrsnm3 do u believe that gods name is jehovah? do u believe that only 144,000 people will go to heaven? dont act like u no every thing entrsnm3!

[entrsnm3]

@TheMatt951 Yes, God's name is Jehovah, and no there will not be literally 144,000 people in heaven. Instead, all Christians will be together ruling and reigning on earth for all eternity.

And if my videos gave you the impression that I "know everything," then I apologize for the misunderstanding. I just try to take what I learn and apply it; even if it means publicly exposing other religions as false, which is the very thing the Watchtower does to everyone else.

[worldsportliveorguk]

ok simple the trinity refuted by proveyourfaith { copy and paste in}

these guys use Greek  biblical unitarians

these guys are really clear and precise

ok also the trinity as refuted by 1 billion muslims

the trinity as proposed by Tertillian

[entrsnm3]

@worldsportliveorguk I don't know anything about what you referenced. If you define what "Trinity" is, i'll be happy to share my view. If not, then there's not much more I can say.

[worldsportliveorguk]

do you believe in the trinity doctrine and hell fire doctrine?

[entrsnm3]

@worldsportliveorguk please define both of those and i'll share my view.

[worldsportliveorguk]

1914 depends on a interpretation of Babylonian Astronomical cunieform tablets

which is not substantiated in the Bible on its own accord saying we accept this interpretation of archieology but not this but coming from the same source

[FairNskware]

Also, if you agree that God is a God of "order" meaning His word is not filled with fluff but useful information for our instruction, then why would the inclusion of specific dates in the bible not demand a closer inspection? I mean, we have brains, we can put two and two together and the fact that these things are already there must mean that God wants us to "search" out truth, and He will let it be found when the time is right.The time obviously wasn't right for the 1st century Christians

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware this is not about closely examining the Scriptures, its about tying a speculative, complex chronological system to the gospel. The biblical gospel knows of no such thing and is nothing short of a "different" gospel, as described in Gal. 1:6-10.

As for James 2:14-23, where in the text does it explicitly reference this as justification before God? Is this not talking about how to distinguish between Christians with true faith vs. those with dead faith?

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 Dead faith IS faith without " works". True faith is backed by "works". According to James 2:14-23 you can't have one without the other. What exactly is speculative regarding 1914? I agree, the bible is NO PLACE for speculation. BUT it does tell us WHEN the end of the "appointed times of the nations" are through a series dates and prophecy leading to 1914 that are NOT hidden Ezek 21:25-27;Lu 1:32, 33. So why do you celebrate Christs birth then if his birthdate is nowhere in the bible?

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware I agree that faith is backed up by works, but where in James 2:14-23 does it say that the *works* are what justify you *before God*? And to illustrate, why does Romans 4:5 tell us "not to work" with reference to our justification?

As to 1914, please watch my video series on the subject and it will be shown that it is not only speculative, but completely without biblical merit.

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 You are splitting hairs. James rounds out our thinking/ our justification by making us aware that " Faith without works is dead". In vs 14 of Ch2 it specifically says: "Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?" We need to weigh out ALL scripture not just pick and choose the ones we like??

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware This is not splitting hairs, its a very crucial distinction: Justification before God, or justification before men. I fully agree that true faith cannot be in exclusion to good works, so no argument there. But what I want to know is, where is the text which speaks of works justifying someone *before God*? If there is none, then why go to James 2 in order to prove such a non-biblical notion?

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 John 6:28,29 tells us that the*works* of God are to believe in his son. What does that entail? James 1:22 answers: "become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning" So our *works* or conduct on a day to day basis justifies us before God because it was the byproduct of our FAITH in Gods son that motivates us to this action/fine works. Col 1:10

REMEMBER: No amount of "works" will produce fine fruit unless it has genuine faith

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware I fully agree that having true faith will inevitably result in works. Again, no argument there. But you keep on saying things like, "works justify us before God." This is completely unscriptural and, in fact, goes against explicit statements in Scripture such as, "But to the one *who does not work* but believes, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5) Why does this verse say "not to work" with reference to our justification before God?

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 So you understand that true faith results in works. Good! Rom 4:5 is moderated by such scriptures as Col 1:10 and James 14:2 but more interestingly when we read all Rom ch 4 we see that the works referenced there are attributed to the works of the law.Faithful Abrahams was not under the law and neither are we. Lesson: FAITH is the key, backed up by works. Like the commandment given in Matt 28:19,20 which requires "works of true faith" and only Jehovah's Witnesses possess this!

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware While it is true that the "works" mentioned are contextually in reference to the law, it makes no difference because there is a principle at work:

“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,”

(Titus 3:5)

So, can you see that no works *of any kind* can justify us before God, whether it be "works of law" (Rom. 4:5) or "Works of righteousness" (Ti. 3:5)

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 Really, no works of any kind? Sounds hedonistic!I Interestingly in reference to your mention of Titus 3:5, if you read further in vs14 it confirms that works are indeed important in remaining righteous/fruitful.

Titus 3:14" And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful."

The principle at work in Rom 4:5 is rounded out by many scriptures, I think you really want to justify a "do nothing" attitude which is ungodly

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware Of course works are important, I would never deny that. All Christians should pursue righteousness and battle the flesh. And whoever would argue otherwise is simply heretical. So yeah, works are absolutely essential to the life of the believer.

But as far as what actually declares us righteous before God, again, what does Romans 4:5, Titus 3:5, and 2 Tim. 1:9 say? Why in all these cases are works specifically excluded from justification before God?

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 What actually declares us righteous is " everything" we do specifically our heart condition. It can not be pin pointed. WE ARE ALL JUDGED ACCORDING TO OUR OWN DEEDS in conjuction with Gods righteous standards.

James 2 says:

"20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive

24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone....

Again, works are excluded because we cannot earn righteousness!

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 What do you want to hear from me. That works don't define us? That works don't matter to God, or that works are excluded in the bible. You already said that "works are absolutely essential to the life of a believer" so I don't get your arguement. I really don't. May I ask you: How exactly do you define works? Perhaps that is the misunderstanding??

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware What I want to hear from you is this: works cannot make you right with God. And this is why Titus 3:5 clearly states that we are not saved by righteous deeds. So why go against the clear teaching of Scripture in claiming that good works will save you?

And if you want to get my argument, I couldn't express it any clearer than texts like ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 4, Titus 3:5, 2 Timothy 1:9, etc. Justification before God is by faith alone apart from works.

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 1 Cor 13:2 says in part "....if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing"  How do you justify this scripture? It disproves your understanding (that faith is alone is justifacation before God) quite fervently.

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware i'd say that this verse has nothing to do with justification before God. True faith works itself out in love. No question about that. Consider Romans 4:5 again. What does it mean to be "credited righteousness?" Biblically, it means we are given a righteousness that is not our own; it is Christ's. Therefore, when God judges us and our deeds, He looks and sees only Christ's righteousness. And how is this accomplished? By faith alone apart from works.

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 How can you say that 1 Co 13:2 which states that " faith without love" is nothing....has nothing to do with justification before God? Every single vs in the bible is for our instruction. You have to believe the whole bible. 1 Co 13:2 widens out our view on faith and love. Yes, it shows us that people can actually have faith without love(eg. nationalistic warfare) but GOD WONT ACCEPT it.So this vs teaches us that faith alone is USELESS and love is an identifying mark of a true Christian

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware the reason it has nothing to do with justification before God is because its in the context of believers who have already been justified.  In other words, you are confusing the categories of sanctification in the life of the believer and justification in the life of the ungodly. Yes, faith without works is dead. And no, works cannot justify you.

If you think that works can make you right with God, then you go directly against Titus 3:5 and Romans 4:5.

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 Huh,Faith is crucial and good Works are the product of our faith but neither will save us without the other.James 2:14-24. Why did Jesus give us "work" (John 6:29) to do in Matt 28:18-20 if we are required "not to work" as you suggest...are you ignoring Jesus commands in view of the philosophies of men?

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3That's right "Works alone" can't make you right with God. I've said that in many different ways already but also I've made you aware through scripture that "faith ALONE" can't make you right with God either. James 2:14-24;, 2 Thess 1:4,5; 1 Co 13:2. Contrary to what you may believe, the bible does tell us that we must PROVE OURSELVES FAITHFULl(Rev 2:10). That requires us becoming " doers of the word and not a hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasonings" James 1:22

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware this is incorrect. Faith alone does make you right with God. If you disagree, then you disagree with Romans 4:5 which explicitly says "but to the one who does not work." So your argument is not with me, but with the inspired writer Paul. Again, if works justify you before God, why would Paul tell us "not to work" with reference to our justification?

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3

What can I say friend: I will take my chances obeying ALL scriptures ."True faith backed up by good works" will never do a person wrong before God. However, I can't rightly say what will happen if you "do nothing" as you are suggesting to people. It certainly is your choice if you want to challenge God by just believing in selected text in HIS WORD which may very well be like  treading on shaky ground.Paul at Rom 4: 5 does not imply a lazy "no work" attitude, you do.

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware Yeah, this convo may need to end here. Just want to say that to attribute "laziness" to my position is to completely misrepresent it, since I have affirmed continuously that works are essential to the Christian life (James 2, etc.). But those works are not what justify you. And I have to say it again, your argument is not with me, but with Paul: “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy...(Titus 3:5)

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 It's the concept your teaching that's lazy. On one hand you agree that works are essential but then you continue on by saying Faith and "no works" are what justify you, contradicting yourself. This tells me that you really DON'T BELIEVE that "works" are essential but are just mouthing the words. And if this is indeed the case than ALL who listen will be UNMOTIVATED to comply to Jesus command at Matt 28:18-20 making them lazy and selfish people. Not Christian at all.

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware This is incorrect. I am simply recognizing the difference between justification and sanctification in the life of the already justified believer. You are the one not recognizing this distinction and are continuing to argue not against me, but against what Paul says in Romans 4:5, 2 Timothy 1:9, and Titus 3:5.

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 Okay, what is the difference between justification and sanctification according to you?

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware without getting into a full on Bible study, justification is what makes you right with God (accomplished through faith in Christ), and sanctification (good works, being conformed to Christ's image, etc.) is what happens after one has already been made right with God, which is why Paul can speak of his justification as a past completed action (Rom. 5:1).

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 In other words your saying that a person has a righteous standing /is justified before God first BEFORE he is conformed by good works/sanctification... meaning, good works come after a person is already righteous?? Which is really obvious, as all righteous people will have good works but how does a person get righteous/justified to begin with... without works??

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware yes, again, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who *justifies the ungodly*, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Rom. 4:5) Notice: the ungodly are justified by faith. And I think the problem here is that you aren't grasping the nature of imputed righteousness. What we receive through justification is not our own: it is Christ's righteousness that is credited to our account.

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 In Rom 4:5-8 ALL MANKiND is free'd from SIN Yes as vs 8 says" Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him" So in the old law, WORKS were required for atonement but under Christ law they are not. 2 Co 5:19 backs it " that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation" What is the message of reconciliation? Acts 13:38,Matt 28:19

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware I disagree that "all mankind" is free'd from sin. v. 6 says "blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works." Is this all mankind? Or is the atonement effectual only for those who "draw near" (Heb. 10:1)? As far as everything else you said, I can give a hearty "amen!" (with a southern baptist twang)

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 You got it!, " drawing near" is the key.(James 4:8) It requires action/effort therefore*works*... God gave ALL Mankind (the ungodly which is everyone)the opportunity to " draw near" (justified by his FAITH)-Rom4:5,Acts 17:30. But only those who manifest their faith,becoming doers of the word (James 1:22) will be deemed righteous. See, Now all scriptures fit together nicely when you have the correct understanding.

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware I'm tempted to split a few hairs on this one only because I know what the Watchtower position is on salvation, but i'm going to resist because I think we've gone enough rounds on this issue. Because JW's are so grossly misinformed about "Sola Fide" (salvation by faith alone) as a result of poor teaching on the WT's part, i'm probably going to start making some videos on this topic to explain my position on this, as there is no way a JW would ever read a book on this topic.

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware lol, if you are going to have a "oh yeah, I gotcha now!" response, as if you're just out to prove me wrong, then there really isn't any use in having a discussion. I've been doing this internet thing for a long time now and know when a convo has rounded in circles too many times. And this one has far surpassed that, but i've kept going because you're respectful and articulate.

If you're really serious about this, let's talk on the phone or Skype. No copping out there :-)

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3... lol...of course your right about the circles, and I thank you for being straighforward and respectful also but c'mon you know as well as I do that there is only one right way to serve God, so yes naturally, there does come a time when one side will end because of lack of scriptural backing. I know what I know and I am definately not out to prove people wrong, I want to help them be right with God. Re: skype/phone, no but thanks (married).

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware If you really think that this is just my "lack of Scriptural backing," then let's do a public youtube debate where the viewers can decide for themselves? We could go back and forth a few times on our videos and then end it there. But since you're a JW, you'd never agree to a debate. However, I have the truth on my side. Thus, I have no problem in publicly showing the utter futility of the Watchtower salvation system, and doing so publicly.

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware yes, because I simply don't have time to go 89 rounds with you or anyone. So at this point I make the offer: let's talk privately in person, (you can still remain anonymous) or let's do a debate. And i'm not going to twist your arm to make you do either. But it is interesting how brave people can be behind the keyboard, but they'd never be able to defend their position in a live interaction. Oh, and name calling ("holy rollers??") is really rude.

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware the point is, i'm willing to expose my position to public scrutiny in an open debate setting. In my opinion, that speaks of confidence, whereas the one who is willing to go 176 rounds from behind a keyboard anonymously speaks otherwise. And this isn't meant to threaten. This is just me saying, "wow, ok, this person is smart and capable and we've taken this pretty far. Why not make this productive and take it completely public for all to see?"

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 Jesus was acknowledged by God as justified. He was thus the only man who, through test, stood firmly and positively just, or righteous before God on his own merit. By this “one act of justification,"that is, by Jesus’ PROVING himself perfectly righteous through his entire flawless course, including his sacrifice, he provided the basis for declaring righteous those persons having faith in Christ(Ro 5:17-19; 3:25, 26; 4:25)

[rachelbinto]

@FairNskware "...a man is NOT justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law NO ONE will be justified....I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (Gal 2:16-21)

This idea Paul expresses throughout the entire book of Galatians.

[FairNskware]

@rachelbinto Yes,we have put our faith in Christ as we are not under the law thus not required to do the "work" of the law to make our transgressions manifest- Gal 3:19 but that does not mean that we are not required to "work" to back up our faith in Christ' sacrifice, or in otherwords " proof" that what we say is what we also do. We are to do the " work" of God(John 6:28,29) which is fully set before us in his word, This " work" is no good unless we have true FAITH in GOD's SON.

[FairNskware]

Being one of Jehovah's witnesses requires action/change/humility. It's much easier to go with the worlds defiant and debauched view and Satan knows it. Early Christians let godly wisdom, not philosophical reasoning, shape their thinking. 2 Co 11:12-15 says in part "....Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions(works/ or lack thereof) deserve."

[entrsnm3]

@FairNskware if that's what you think about the early church in following their example, why is the Watchtower's "gospel" centered around a complex chronological system (i.e. 1914); something the early church knew absolutely nothing about and could have never agreed to?

Furthermore, do you really believe that your "end" will be what your actions deserve? In other words, is your salvation based on your good works?

[FairNskware]

@entrsnm3 James 2:14-23 answers you: 14"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? ... faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead....Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?" About Abraham: "...22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

[earnestlyseeking]

Great reasons Mike. I'm glad for you that you made a wise decision. I wish my Grandfather would have decided that also.

[barbsinclair]

Amen brother Mike, I hope the JWs really research this, and also that many of those who are taking in their knowledge in studies see your honest and truthful video.

[DavesHome]

Hey Mike, very clear and concise as usual. Well done. Keep it up. I think you've pretty much pawned the Witnesses. Now lets move on to the Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, African Episcopalians etc etc

[21crosscheck21]

All very good reasons that I hope Jws will study.