I like how Tucson installs these 1 block away from actual traffic signals. One crosswalk signal like this started originally as an emergency (fire/ambulance signal) and had the pedestrian crossing added to it. Again, 1 block away from an intersection...
I don't like the idea of wig-wag red lights meaning "treat it like a stop sign." That is disturbing. What does that say for lighted, but ungated railroad crossings? Jeez.
@RainbowDisposal: Right on. I saw that one...it's on 7 Ave and Indian School Rd (I live in Phoenix). That is a much better execution than the wig-wag. :)
@he0got0soul: The HAWK crossings stay solid red for a predetermined amount of time and then go to flashing red to allow cars to go if clear so they do not have to wait 2 minutes for one person to cross the street.
@he0got0soul there should not be ungated railroad crossings, in my opinion. it just seems like a less costly alternative to a gate, but not clearly defining the right of way. seen too many of those "crazy traffic accident" real tv shows to think other wise. do you know of any reason?
Emergency vehicle signals and newly installed signals give us the same problems, going from "dark" to "on" and not being recognized by drivers. Like signalfan, I prefer steady green instead of dark or even flashing yellow. Who can share vehicle crash experience with this type of operation?
@hikenbike59 I agree with you. The signal should not be dark. Most drivers would not even expect this signal to be operational normally and might even be shocked to see a red signal suddenly appear!
I say they should use what city of Los Angeles uses for ped crossings...normal GYR followed by a flashing red during the flashing 'Dont Walk' phase. This minimizes delay and is a familiar signal to most drivers. This a
Flashing yellow and flashing red lights are recognized, by most drivers, to be permanent (or semi-permanent) signal states. The quick change from dark, to flashing yellow, to static yellow, to red, to flashing red, then back to dark is understandably confusing. It makes no sense, and bears no resemblance to what drivers have been taught or have experienced about traffic signal patterns.
@Erikrhino9 It's a new signal, and it is going to take time for people to get used to. As I understand, the signal is based on a European configuration and adapted for American pedestrian purposes. My former hometown of Lawrence, Kansas has five HAWK signals installed, and on the occassions I have seen them activated, traffic compliance has been pretty good.
I have personally witnessed many dozens of accidents at these signals, far more than at any point on the streets of Tucson. For starters, the signal is dark when not in use. This makes the signal invisible to most drivers. If it is noticed, drivers think the signal is nonfunctional. Secondly, the signal goes from dark to flashing yellow. This causes some drivers to slam on their brakes, the most common cause of accidents at these signals.
Having lived in Tucson for the last 20 years, I have had considerable experience with HAWK. If vehicular accidents are an acceptable price to pay for increased pedestrian signal compliance, this is the system for you.
Oh yeah! That's clever (not). So wig-wag flashing red at this crossing means you can proceed if safe? And the same thing at a railroad crossing means....??? Oh of course. It must mean proceed if you can't see a train on the crossing. :)
Surely flashing amber would've been a better choice - as used in the UK, Australia and elsewhere after the steady red to allow drivers to proceed if pedestrians have cleared the crossing.
The concept behind the HAWK signal is to get pedestrians across a major arterial while minimizing delay to automobile traffic. After the yellow, you start out with a steady red, mandating that cars stop. Once cars stop, pedestrians can safely start to cross. The wig-wag flashing red allows cars to proceed if the pedestrian has cleared the road. This reduces delay for cars compared to a standard signal, unless you have an unusually slow pedestrian, such as a frail elderly pedestrian.
I like how Tucson installs these 1 block away from actual traffic signals. One crosswalk signal like this started originally as an emergency (fire/ambulance signal) and had the pedestrian crossing added to it. Again, 1 block away from an intersection...
jprock1980 7 months ago
they just use normal signals here for exclusive ped crossings here... takes care of the whole issue.
sorphin 1 year ago
they should put a railroad crossing quad gates its safer for pedestrians
Cooler3rick 2 years ago
@Cooler3rick Yeah, and a hell of a lot more expensive and unnecessary.
OfficerNelson 1 year ago
I don't like the idea of wig-wag red lights meaning "treat it like a stop sign." That is disturbing. What does that say for lighted, but ungated railroad crossings? Jeez.
he0got0soul 2 years ago 6
@he0got0soul
I saw a video of this type of signal from Phoenix, AZ. Instead of the wig-wag red lights, both red lights flash on and off at the same time.
RainbowDisposal 1 year ago
@RainbowDisposal: Right on. I saw that one...it's on 7 Ave and Indian School Rd (I live in Phoenix). That is a much better execution than the wig-wag. :)
he0got0soul 1 year ago
@he0got0soul: The HAWK crossings stay solid red for a predetermined amount of time and then go to flashing red to allow cars to go if clear so they do not have to wait 2 minutes for one person to cross the street.
theonecomplicant 1 year ago
@he0got0soul there should not be ungated railroad crossings, in my opinion. it just seems like a less costly alternative to a gate, but not clearly defining the right of way. seen too many of those "crazy traffic accident" real tv shows to think other wise. do you know of any reason?
snoogins355 3 months ago
Emergency vehicle signals and newly installed signals give us the same problems, going from "dark" to "on" and not being recognized by drivers. Like signalfan, I prefer steady green instead of dark or even flashing yellow. Who can share vehicle crash experience with this type of operation?
hikenbike59 2 years ago
@hikenbike59 I agree with you. The signal should not be dark. Most drivers would not even expect this signal to be operational normally and might even be shocked to see a red signal suddenly appear!
jonpgh 1 year ago
Those are NOT supposed to be installed at intersections.
Mudimush 2 years ago
I say they should use what city of Los Angeles uses for ped crossings...normal GYR followed by a flashing red during the flashing 'Dont Walk' phase. This minimizes delay and is a familiar signal to most drivers. This a
signalfan 2 years ago
Flashing yellow and flashing red lights are recognized, by most drivers, to be permanent (or semi-permanent) signal states. The quick change from dark, to flashing yellow, to static yellow, to red, to flashing red, then back to dark is understandably confusing. It makes no sense, and bears no resemblance to what drivers have been taught or have experienced about traffic signal patterns.
Erikrhino9 2 years ago
@Erikrhino9 It's a new signal, and it is going to take time for people to get used to. As I understand, the signal is based on a European configuration and adapted for American pedestrian purposes. My former hometown of Lawrence, Kansas has five HAWK signals installed, and on the occassions I have seen them activated, traffic compliance has been pretty good.
6891man 10 months ago
I have personally witnessed many dozens of accidents at these signals, far more than at any point on the streets of Tucson. For starters, the signal is dark when not in use. This makes the signal invisible to most drivers. If it is noticed, drivers think the signal is nonfunctional. Secondly, the signal goes from dark to flashing yellow. This causes some drivers to slam on their brakes, the most common cause of accidents at these signals.
Erikrhino9 2 years ago
Having lived in Tucson for the last 20 years, I have had considerable experience with HAWK. If vehicular accidents are an acceptable price to pay for increased pedestrian signal compliance, this is the system for you.
Erikrhino9 2 years ago
Oh yeah! That's clever (not). So wig-wag flashing red at this crossing means you can proceed if safe? And the same thing at a railroad crossing means....??? Oh of course. It must mean proceed if you can't see a train on the crossing. :)
Surely flashing amber would've been a better choice - as used in the UK, Australia and elsewhere after the steady red to allow drivers to proceed if pedestrians have cleared the crossing.
emdB67 2 years ago
The concept behind the HAWK signal is to get pedestrians across a major arterial while minimizing delay to automobile traffic. After the yellow, you start out with a steady red, mandating that cars stop. Once cars stop, pedestrians can safely start to cross. The wig-wag flashing red allows cars to proceed if the pedestrian has cleared the road. This reduces delay for cars compared to a standard signal, unless you have an unusually slow pedestrian, such as a frail elderly pedestrian.
PedAdvocate 3 years ago
Fit all that on a sign that everyone (motorist and ped) can understand and it might have a chance, otherwise good luck
venked1 2 years ago
exciting.
swankrecords 4 years ago