this is pretty cool man, this is exactly what I've been thinking of late.. But I go to Dallas Baptist University so it's hard to find someone who can follow me and explain how it's different from the way you've said it is.. Which is how I've been thinking would make sense if it was.. "it" being, "the way things are".. Lol
@SHIBBYiPANDA people develop IN the same way, i.e., genetic-environment interaction; but they don't develop to be the same, because of the difference in genes and environments. Now, genetic differences of two organisms of the same species--whether they be Homo sapiens sapiens or nay--are not going to be as significant as environmental differences. And in the case of identical twins, the only difference arising in the twins will result from the difference in personal circumstances. Naturalism Org
@SHIBBYiPANDA, I'm unsure I answered you concerns because your comment is confusing. Different from the way you imagined it to be as a result of other (other than DBU teachings) previous sensory input? Different from the way taught at Dallas Baptist University? Or different from the way I "said it is?" "'it' being, 'the way things are'"
If 1000 clones were made from your DNA and scattered around the world, the ONLY difference between the resulting individuals will be the difference in milieus
@unseenstrings i was saying, ya, its hard for me to imagine how "freewill", in the traditional sense, exists. I'm trying very hard to imagine how it can exist and have been trying to get someone to explain it to me (how the trad idea of freewill exists and is possible). But even going to a traditional Baptist school, the members of which of course believe in the traditional idea of freewill, I can't find anyone who can get it to fit in my head as logical.
@unseenstrings u make perfect since and my task now is to try to understand the other side.. That's what I'm trying to do.. It doesn't seem like the traditional idea of freewill makes actually logical sense but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and allowing for the possibility that maybe... MAYBE..... it makes sense......
So I'm trying very hard to make sense of the traditional idea of freewill..
@SHIBBYiPANDA, you're not going to be able to understand the "other side." You see, like some of the other perspectives held by the "other side," they often hold contractive beliefs. They will say, "God knew who you would become and what you would do before he created you." Likewise, they will say, All is already written in the Book of Life." Then they will turn around and claim by means of "free will" you can deviate from the course already written. I guess their god isn't all-knowing after all
Now if you go to my YouTube Channel Page and click on the link to my "Website:" it will take you to my blog at WordPress. Then do a search on that page (unseenstrings wordpress com) for "christianity_freewill" and there you will find three links discussing the issue. The first shows that The Bible teaches Predestination. The second is to a page showing the "Free Will Defense" Christian apologists use to justify evil in the world. The third is a Muslim arguing "free will" is a "paradox."
@unseenstrings Haha, I know man.. But I'm just trying nonetheless just in case there's something really there to be understood thats just really hard to understand..
Do you mind if I ask your religious education and profession background? I'm not talking about just schooling either :)
I'm wondering if theres a trend in professions that tend to cause people to lean to one side or the other..
@SHIBBYiPANDA, my religious education consisted of Sunday School and Vacation Bible School for around the first 15 years of my life. We also had Bible Studies at home once or twice a month. Church Services were usually three times per week during the same period. Seems like I classified myself as non-denomination when I was drafted into the Army. I was a believer but not in the fundamentalist sense. Reading The Bible from cover to cover for the first time at the age of 35 made me skeptical.
Oh, BTW, you said, "Haha, I know man.. But I'm just trying nonetheless just in case there's something really there to be understood thats just really hard to understand.."
You know what? Were you already familiar with the arguments given on the pages linked to at my blog? That should have reinforced my answer as to what they think. Besides, eloquent and persuasive rhetoric can convince without evidence. Look at religion. Beware of BBS (befuddling bull shit). Accept only verifiable evidence.
@SHIBBYiPANDA, if you search this page for Webster, you'll see I provided the definition of the free will that I say doesn't exists. You cannot logically understand me nor anyone else without first having an understanding of the definitions of the words we use in conversation. Now, how can you be trying to understand "just in case there's something really there" when you cannot define precisely what you are looking for. Define free will for me. Or do you accept my (Webster's) definition?
"this guy," which happens to be me by the way, wasn't talking to you but to his granddaughter. Maybe that is the reason you don't understand. She was going on 12 at the time (now 13) and had no problem understanding the video & discussing it. Read the dialogue & maybe you'll get the picture. At this time YouTube-Google has a link directly below the video titled, "(more info)." Click on the link and learn what the video was about and how to find the dialogue.
@Arikiel, Robin is now 13 years old and the biggest influence in her life are the hormones starting to flood her brain. She can no longer keep her thoughts on school work. Fantasies of young men now tickle her mind, or so her dad tells me. Robin lives in a different city. And when I visit she just seems like the same sweet Robin to me. She has started looking like a mini woman. And I can't help but worry about her drive to meet what she assumes peers expect of her. Dwarfism is a type of hardship
Great video. You are smart, and really good at explaining things. "Correct them", not "punish them" -that is a very good point and a good way to state it. Also, good point on the ambiguity of certain words. It really does lead to confusion. We all must explain things clearly, and listen/read things carefully (although if we don't, it isn't our fault because we didn't have the free will to decide whether or not to do this hehe)
Yes, we must read with as much critical thought as we are supposed to when we listen, because all writings are based upon another person's imagination, attitudes and opinions, just has talking is. Peer reviewed papers based on methodological naturalism (versus metaphysicalism) can be taken with a certain degree of faith. But no writings should be blindly believed.
Also, bear in mind, your broken arm would not be your "fault" in the sense invented by religion. But it would still be a fault.
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1975) defines "free will" as "the power asserted of moral beings of choosing within limitations or with respect to some matters without restraint of physical or divine necessity or causal law." Let me emphasize the part about, " without restraint of physical or divine necessity or causal law," because that is what is commonly meant when the term free will is used. Some people like to redefine free will into existence, but that keeps the old illusion alive.
though this guy has a point, I should've rated 3 stars because of his accusations against christians as if all of them are the way he says they are. Don't bother replying if ur going to be arrogant. ill just block you.
Yo! What the heck? I watched my video again trying to figure out what you are talking about. Nada. I realize there are hundreds of denominations and sects of Christianity which have conflicting doctrines based on the same book. But they certainly are not the same. Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe people shall be sent to a literal Hell, and Fundies despise them for the belief. Universalist Unitarians believe everyone is going to Heaven, and they are despised too, but not by me. What's up?
I'm a determinist and I think that free will is an illusion also but why does the idea of humans having free will have to be part of a conspiracy from the church and big business?
The existentialist philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre advocated the idea of free will but he was neither religious or involved with big business.
Free will is preached from every pulpit in the land. Big Business actively seeks to learn more and more about the causal factors involved in human behavior but generally pretends individuals are free from the laws of cause and effect. Not everyone who claims to believe the will is free from causation actually believes such. Not every conspiracy theory is deserving of ridicule. In fact, ridicule is an effective means of delusion/deception. Some religious sects conspire and so do some businesses.
Jean-Paul Sartre was part of the conspiracy too? All this time I thought he was an atheist and he was working for the church all along spreading that free will non-sense!
Free will dogma is the very foundation of practically every religion. Most individuals have been so ingrained with the dogma that they still believe the will is free from the laws of cause and effect even after they become atheists. I have previously pointed out that Jean-Paul Sartre seemed to have been bogged down in a quagmire of rhetoric. Scientists and philosophers in the past believed some silly nonsense; they didn't have the technology and discoveries we now have to base their beliefs on.
What you say is true. When I was younger, I took a lot of blame for things that weren't my fault, and now, I'm kind'of bitter. I didn't learn the power of awareness until I was 19... Wasted years of wasted thought and angst.
Well if you just take the awareness you've developed and apply it to your own children, then I feel mighty proud to have provided the video to help you become more aware. Although, admittedly, you may have become aware before watching my video. However, beware that the emotions associated with the notion of free will are still buried deep in your unconscious mind. And they will raise their ugly heads when you least expect it. Bear that in mind when your kids have you red-faced with aggravation.
a person still has to deal with society's free will philosophy and its love to place blame on individuals that it has trapped. A parent can only do so much. Anyway, I can't have children, so the world is free from me forever!
Society does like to lay blame on individuals. But I suspect the blame mentality may be the result of indoctrination. After all, if The People became aware that free will is an illusion, they may demand an account of those factors that could be either directly or indirectly contributing to unfavorable behavior. Religion uses free will to justify threats of Hell. Big Business uses free will both to protect the Status Quo and to keep the public ignorant of the strings by which they are manipulated
Though you don't see children of your own in your future, the possibility exists that you may influence a child or children some day. And at that time you can try to spread the awareness to them that free will is an illusion.
Jesus said to forgive 7 times 70. And Christians say they "hate the sin, not the sinner." Science, real science instead of pseudoscience says one should hate the causal factors that led to the unfavorable behavior but not the misbehaving person. But they all be hypocrites.
It's not often you hear the insightful voice of genius come in the form of a Southern accent. If only my grandparents were more like you and less like evangelical wingnuts, big-hearted as they are.
I'm a grandpa and maybe a great-grandpa by now. The only real difference between me and your grandparents is our life's experiences. I've never been an evangelical wingnut, but I was religious like the rest of my family. Have you ever sat down and read the Bible with an open mind but while under duress? That was and is an eye opening experience, that is, providing you have good reading comprehension. Sufficient stress causes the inflexibility of the mindset to become less resistant to change.
this is pretty cool man, this is exactly what I've been thinking of late.. But I go to Dallas Baptist University so it's hard to find someone who can follow me and explain how it's different from the way you've said it is.. Which is how I've been thinking would make sense if it was.. "it" being, "the way things are".. Lol
SHIBBYiPANDA 1 year ago
@SHIBBYiPANDA people develop IN the same way, i.e., genetic-environment interaction; but they don't develop to be the same, because of the difference in genes and environments. Now, genetic differences of two organisms of the same species--whether they be Homo sapiens sapiens or nay--are not going to be as significant as environmental differences. And in the case of identical twins, the only difference arising in the twins will result from the difference in personal circumstances. Naturalism Org
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@SHIBBYiPANDA, I'm unsure I answered you concerns because your comment is confusing. Different from the way you imagined it to be as a result of other (other than DBU teachings) previous sensory input? Different from the way taught at Dallas Baptist University? Or different from the way I "said it is?" "'it' being, 'the way things are'"
If 1000 clones were made from your DNA and scattered around the world, the ONLY difference between the resulting individuals will be the difference in milieus
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@unseenstrings i was saying, ya, its hard for me to imagine how "freewill", in the traditional sense, exists. I'm trying very hard to imagine how it can exist and have been trying to get someone to explain it to me (how the trad idea of freewill exists and is possible). But even going to a traditional Baptist school, the members of which of course believe in the traditional idea of freewill, I can't find anyone who can get it to fit in my head as logical.
u sir make perfect sense
SHIBBYiPANDA 1 year ago
@unseenstrings u make perfect since and my task now is to try to understand the other side.. That's what I'm trying to do.. It doesn't seem like the traditional idea of freewill makes actually logical sense but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and allowing for the possibility that maybe... MAYBE..... it makes sense......
So I'm trying very hard to make sense of the traditional idea of freewill..
SHIBBYiPANDA 1 year ago
@SHIBBYiPANDA, you're not going to be able to understand the "other side." You see, like some of the other perspectives held by the "other side," they often hold contractive beliefs. They will say, "God knew who you would become and what you would do before he created you." Likewise, they will say, All is already written in the Book of Life." Then they will turn around and claim by means of "free will" you can deviate from the course already written. I guess their god isn't all-knowing after all
unseenstrings 1 year ago
Now if you go to my YouTube Channel Page and click on the link to my "Website:" it will take you to my blog at WordPress. Then do a search on that page (unseenstrings wordpress com) for "christianity_freewill" and there you will find three links discussing the issue. The first shows that The Bible teaches Predestination. The second is to a page showing the "Free Will Defense" Christian apologists use to justify evil in the world. The third is a Muslim arguing "free will" is a "paradox."
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@unseenstrings Haha, I know man.. But I'm just trying nonetheless just in case there's something really there to be understood thats just really hard to understand..
Do you mind if I ask your religious education and profession background? I'm not talking about just schooling either :)
I'm wondering if theres a trend in professions that tend to cause people to lean to one side or the other..
SHIBBYiPANDA 1 year ago
@SHIBBYiPANDA, my religious education consisted of Sunday School and Vacation Bible School for around the first 15 years of my life. We also had Bible Studies at home once or twice a month. Church Services were usually three times per week during the same period. Seems like I classified myself as non-denomination when I was drafted into the Army. I was a believer but not in the fundamentalist sense. Reading The Bible from cover to cover for the first time at the age of 35 made me skeptical.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
If you want more information read my short bio on my YouTube Channel.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
Oh, BTW, you said, "Haha, I know man.. But I'm just trying nonetheless just in case there's something really there to be understood thats just really hard to understand.."
You know what? Were you already familiar with the arguments given on the pages linked to at my blog? That should have reinforced my answer as to what they think. Besides, eloquent and persuasive rhetoric can convince without evidence. Look at religion. Beware of BBS (befuddling bull shit). Accept only verifiable evidence.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@SHIBBYiPANDA, if you search this page for Webster, you'll see I provided the definition of the free will that I say doesn't exists. You cannot logically understand me nor anyone else without first having an understanding of the definitions of the words we use in conversation. Now, how can you be trying to understand "just in case there's something really there" when you cannot define precisely what you are looking for. Define free will for me. Or do you accept my (Webster's) definition?
unseenstrings 1 year ago
What the fuck is this guy talking about im lost
tienen23 1 year ago
"this guy," which happens to be me by the way, wasn't talking to you but to his granddaughter. Maybe that is the reason you don't understand. She was going on 12 at the time (now 13) and had no problem understanding the video & discussing it. Read the dialogue & maybe you'll get the picture. At this time YouTube-Google has a link directly below the video titled, "(more info)." Click on the link and learn what the video was about and how to find the dialogue.
Maybe myth has your mindset warped.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
It seems Robin is lucky to have you as an influence in her life :)
Arikiel 1 year ago
@Arikiel, Robin is now 13 years old and the biggest influence in her life are the hormones starting to flood her brain. She can no longer keep her thoughts on school work. Fantasies of young men now tickle her mind, or so her dad tells me. Robin lives in a different city. And when I visit she just seems like the same sweet Robin to me. She has started looking like a mini woman. And I can't help but worry about her drive to meet what she assumes peers expect of her. Dwarfism is a type of hardship
unseenstrings 1 year ago
Great video. You are smart, and really good at explaining things. "Correct them", not "punish them" -that is a very good point and a good way to state it. Also, good point on the ambiguity of certain words. It really does lead to confusion. We all must explain things clearly, and listen/read things carefully (although if we don't, it isn't our fault because we didn't have the free will to decide whether or not to do this hehe)
johndoe43210 2 years ago
Yes, we must read with as much critical thought as we are supposed to when we listen, because all writings are based upon another person's imagination, attitudes and opinions, just has talking is. Peer reviewed papers based on methodological naturalism (versus metaphysicalism) can be taken with a certain degree of faith. But no writings should be blindly believed.
Also, bear in mind, your broken arm would not be your "fault" in the sense invented by religion. But it would still be a fault.
unseenstrings 2 years ago
what do you define free will as?
errwatsupdock 2 years ago
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1975) defines "free will" as "the power asserted of moral beings of choosing within limitations or with respect to some matters without restraint of physical or divine necessity or causal law." Let me emphasize the part about, " without restraint of physical or divine necessity or causal law," because that is what is commonly meant when the term free will is used. Some people like to redefine free will into existence, but that keeps the old illusion alive.
unseenstrings 2 years ago
ah i see this makes sense sorry i just needed clarification
errwatsupdock 2 years ago
though this guy has a point, I should've rated 3 stars because of his accusations against christians as if all of them are the way he says they are. Don't bother replying if ur going to be arrogant. ill just block you.
jamesdragonforce 2 years ago
Yo! What the heck? I watched my video again trying to figure out what you are talking about. Nada. I realize there are hundreds of denominations and sects of Christianity which have conflicting doctrines based on the same book. But they certainly are not the same. Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe people shall be sent to a literal Hell, and Fundies despise them for the belief. Universalist Unitarians believe everyone is going to Heaven, and they are despised too, but not by me. What's up?
unseenstrings 2 years ago
I'm a determinist and I think that free will is an illusion also but why does the idea of humans having free will have to be part of a conspiracy from the church and big business?
The existentialist philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre advocated the idea of free will but he was neither religious or involved with big business.
Steve2323ZX 2 years ago
Free will is preached from every pulpit in the land. Big Business actively seeks to learn more and more about the causal factors involved in human behavior but generally pretends individuals are free from the laws of cause and effect. Not everyone who claims to believe the will is free from causation actually believes such. Not every conspiracy theory is deserving of ridicule. In fact, ridicule is an effective means of delusion/deception. Some religious sects conspire and so do some businesses.
unseenstrings 2 years ago
Jean-Paul Sartre was part of the conspiracy too? All this time I thought he was an atheist and he was working for the church all along spreading that free will non-sense!
Steve2323ZX 2 years ago
Free will dogma is the very foundation of practically every religion. Most individuals have been so ingrained with the dogma that they still believe the will is free from the laws of cause and effect even after they become atheists. I have previously pointed out that Jean-Paul Sartre seemed to have been bogged down in a quagmire of rhetoric. Scientists and philosophers in the past believed some silly nonsense; they didn't have the technology and discoveries we now have to base their beliefs on.
unseenstrings 2 years ago
What you say is true. When I was younger, I took a lot of blame for things that weren't my fault, and now, I'm kind'of bitter. I didn't learn the power of awareness until I was 19... Wasted years of wasted thought and angst.
forgotmypassword3 2 years ago
Well if you just take the awareness you've developed and apply it to your own children, then I feel mighty proud to have provided the video to help you become more aware. Although, admittedly, you may have become aware before watching my video. However, beware that the emotions associated with the notion of free will are still buried deep in your unconscious mind. And they will raise their ugly heads when you least expect it. Bear that in mind when your kids have you red-faced with aggravation.
unseenstrings 2 years ago
a person still has to deal with society's free will philosophy and its love to place blame on individuals that it has trapped. A parent can only do so much. Anyway, I can't have children, so the world is free from me forever!
forgotmypassword3 2 years ago
Society does like to lay blame on individuals. But I suspect the blame mentality may be the result of indoctrination. After all, if The People became aware that free will is an illusion, they may demand an account of those factors that could be either directly or indirectly contributing to unfavorable behavior. Religion uses free will to justify threats of Hell. Big Business uses free will both to protect the Status Quo and to keep the public ignorant of the strings by which they are manipulated
unseenstrings 2 years ago
Though you don't see children of your own in your future, the possibility exists that you may influence a child or children some day. And at that time you can try to spread the awareness to them that free will is an illusion.
Jesus said to forgive 7 times 70. And Christians say they "hate the sin, not the sinner." Science, real science instead of pseudoscience says one should hate the causal factors that led to the unfavorable behavior but not the misbehaving person. But they all be hypocrites.
unseenstrings 2 years ago
This is great! She is adorable!
TheDirtyCanadianGirl 3 years ago
It's not often you hear the insightful voice of genius come in the form of a Southern accent. If only my grandparents were more like you and less like evangelical wingnuts, big-hearted as they are.
JETZcorp 3 years ago
I'm a grandpa and maybe a great-grandpa by now. The only real difference between me and your grandparents is our life's experiences. I've never been an evangelical wingnut, but I was religious like the rest of my family. Have you ever sat down and read the Bible with an open mind but while under duress? That was and is an eye opening experience, that is, providing you have good reading comprehension. Sufficient stress causes the inflexibility of the mindset to become less resistant to change.
unseenstrings 3 years ago