origin of chinese hakka race 客家來源

[pawoon]

Deng Xiao-Ping was Hakka

[owardis397]

@pawoon I'm actually 3/4 Taishanese + 1/4 Hakka. Has it ever occured to you that best Chinese people come from Guangdong region? and worst are outside of Guangdong/

For example:

Sun Yat sen - Founder of modern China ( Hakka or Cantonese-Hakka?)

Bruce Lee - The most famous asian actor in history ( Cantonese)

Gary Lock - First Asian governer of United stateds ( Taishanese)

Beyond - First chinese rock band with international fan base (Taishanese)

Taksin - King of Thailand

ect....

[pawoon]

@owardis397 I agree. I was born in Jamaica, WI, but my grandparents came from GuangDong at the beginning of the 20th century, and we are Hakka.

[mount922]

@Regentroepfchen09 hakka which means "guest person"is called by the original native residents(yue ethnic) who lived in south of China where hakka moved to. The hakka also called themself "hakka"(guest person), because they thought they were far away from hometown and settled in a new place.Their cunstoms and language are han chinese indeed.

[hongnongren]

Surprised to read some weird comments: either they don't understand the content of this video in Mandarin, or they just play deaf to it! For those who wish to know more, type "Hakka" or "kejiaren" in Baidu.com

[Regentroepfchen09]

@prophetluongsucks

If you dont care about the root of Hakka, why are you angry about the truth ? haha. Because you dont want to know the truthly fact.

Typicall han domination is showed by olympic games. The 56 children sweared the chinese flag to present the minority of chinese. But a lot of them do not belong really to this minority. All of them are children of Han chinese. No child from tibet no childred from korea, no from hui ect....

All of them have to subordinate the Han race.

[Regentroepfchen09]

@prophetluongsucks

The origin Chinese call this people "hakka" . This means "Guest person". Guest = strange. The chinese are host. Hakka are guest. They are not the same.The hakka lived for long time in Han territorium, but they can keep their language and some tradition.

If you say "chinese" you means only "Han" , and not hakka, not tibetant, not hui, not zhuang, not russia, not manchu, not mongols, not yue. The Hans represent china , not the Hakka.

[1wishfulthinking1]

@Regentroepfchen09 Hmmm that is not actually very accurate. The term "guest people" was a term coined by the Hakka to differenciate themselves from the Southern Chinese when they migrated from Northern China. And what do you mean by "If you say "chinese" you means only "Han" , and not hakka, not tibetant, not hui, not zhuang, not russia, not manchu, not mongols, not yue. The Hans represent china , not the Hakka." So what is a "Han" in your definition, just asking anyway :)

[paexou]

Hakka ppl also speak different from Cantonese and Hmong.

Maybe, similar to Han, but as I listen seems not similar, either.

[cafelattemocha]

hakka nyin chi ga nyin.........

[zacchew]

oic... muz let my mom know bout this

[mintoh10]

Do you know where I can get a copy of this video with English subtitles? I have a friend who's interested to know the story but cannot understand Chinese. Thanks :)

[kuonming]

客家人在海外也為數不少呀﹐在荷蘭的華人中有很多客家人。

[xy5289888]

Actually,Hakka is a National minority and Han Nationality's person of mixed blood from China!

[hongnongren]

Wow, an 18 year old from antartica knows archaic Chinese? Interesting indeed.

[TheXanian]

Archaic Chinese pronounciation is totally different from Hakka.

[TheXanian]

Translation of the song in the beginning into Archaic Chinese:

Qew mjuns khrak kra nai lje re? Khrak kra re dzjit gwang gaal peen.Qew mjuns khrak kra nai lje tos? Bong san we khrak kra tos san khrak tos san.Nuum njin khljuds mun tshjang hlin gaa,nia njin die kra gwe keng din.San lje san nguad lig liw sjem,kiong kjans miei qhuu sjin kra ngoon,kiong kjans miei qhuu sjin kra ngoon,sjin kra ngoon.

[TheXanian]

I can translate the song in the beginning of the video into Ancient Chinese,here is the translation:

qew mjuns khrak ka nai lje re? khrak ka re dzit gwang gaal bien.qew mjuns khark ka nai lje tos?

[TheXanian]

I watched some video about ancient chinese pronounciation,but it don't match Hakka language very well.

[TheXanian]

The Hakka Y-SNP is O3,there was a scientific research on this and they reported that it's O3.

[msoong8888]

From what I have read, punti is what Hakka people call contonese people who refer to themselves as Guangdong, chinese or Hong Kong people depending on where they are from or what thye have been taught.

One of the main questions is are you still hakka if your parents are but you can not speak it? This is because hakka has no county of origin so many people are classed as hakka if they speak it at home.

[Yvesyew]

Taiwan's Hakka is not pure Hakka, it is mixed with the Min Nan 閩南 or Hokkien.

Even the oversea's Hakka is more original than the Taiwan's. They keep the original pronouciation that still close with the China mainland's Hakka.

[cyj42121]

My wife is Hakka come from Taiwan province.I am a native in Tienjin.Wuchin county.I have two childrns.

[xokattykinsxo]

I am a Hakka because my father and my mother are. It is now not so easy to preserve that indentity in mordern society.I do my best to be a Hakka for my parents. It is in my emotional blood.

[endawie]

Thing have to be change in some occasion,to change for better,Change Hakka to Punti.Before Punti term is suggested,you may be never heard of it.

[ywintube]

Punti is a general term for local in hakka dialet. Any tribe born locally can also be Punti , it may be confucing, perhaps we could say Punti Hakka for local hakka but it appears to be like " drawing snake with legs". Let it be .... let it be....

[endawie]

let yourself be a Hakka but let other be a PunT,it would be confusing if you can think sensibly,why only Punti is a general term but not Hakka?do any tribe born locally identify themself Hakka,NO,NO,NO,only the insensible hakka who let it be

[ywintube]

Any good cause for you to change Hakka to Punti? I believe the majority of the Hakka clan do not receive it well at all. Perhaps a strong worthy cause will be more convincing via the Hakka association and before doing so, you have to convince them to change Hakka association to Punti Association. Wow, an uphill task for sure.

[680LBS]

Hakka is a language group just like Cantonese , would you like it if someone told you "don't call yourself Cantonese??

[endawie]

The Hakka community is at a cross-roads in its journey of self-discovery-whether to continue calling itself Hakka or adopt a new term Punti which means the local.

[endawie]

Be a Punti rather than Hakka,Hakka is a collective tag,My parents insist on be known as Hakka,l feel tremendously difficult to convert their stronghold of Hakka to a more correct term Punti

[shoexy]

I am Chinese, Hakka but i dont look like most chinese. I got big eyes, thick eyebrows, long eyelashes.. I got wavy hair too..

[saint666]

many hakka are mixed with local populations, how you look depends on where you are from.

[endawie]

l am a zhonghua,Punti as you,but you prefer to known as Hakka,l choose to be a Punti since l really local born.LOL

[btdus]

You mist be very cute

[shoexy]

i can show u if u wan.

[endawie]

What u want to show me ?

[endawie]

why u said l must be very cute???

[la626boyz]

i am Hakka too :-)

[hongpingmike]

that's ok.. pobody's nerfect!!

[endawie]

My grandpas n grandmas are known as Hakka,gave born to my dad n mum in Malaysia,l am the second local born generation,l prefer Punti then Hakka.You are still a Hakka but l choose to be a Punti dan say bye-bye to Hakka.But,l still communicating in language as yours,that is Punti,LOL

[la626boyz]

what the hell is Punti? never heard of it , and i think Hakka is the best of all, cuz we're the real generation of Chinese ancestor, proud to be it, and never forget where my grandparent came from..It's a shame to be an ignorant, hope you'll get what am i trying to suggest!!! :-)

[la626boyz]

im Hakkanian 2, but we speak different Hakkanian with these people.. i dont know maybe there are so many Hakka dialects in China..

[inoutdesign]

客人都系來自黃河邊嘅北方人，可惜千幾佰年來，客家民 族經過了五次大型嘅遷徙，每個地方嘅客家話都混雜了當地嘅方言

[la626boyz]

谢谢你啊， 现在我知道我的太祖宗从那里来了。。。i would never forget them, cuz that's where my root came from :-)

[LoudNproudAzn]

@inoutdesign Wow...thank you for educating us.... I my parents both are Hakkanians.... they wanted us to keep our language....so growing up I was affraid to speak the language because no one speak the Hakka we speak...Now I know why...thank you....

[caryinja]

@LoudNproudAzn ,

Actually no, the Hakka are not one of the 56 minority groups of China. They are a group of Han Chinese who originated from around the Yellow River and over centuries migrated south to the southeast area. They kept their old language and customs as they often lived on mountainsides, away from the locals.

[Regentroepfchen09]

@caryinja

It is not true what you say. International Research shows that the Hakka were not Han chinese. They are more related to korea and came originally from sibiria. They settled to Han territory for 2500 years ago. But they lived isolated to Han chinese and keep their tradition and language, which differentiates to actuell han tradtion.

The Han chinese propaganda always retain this information about the root of Hakkan and say that the hakka are origin Han chinese. But it is not true.

[caryinja]

@Regentroepfchen09 I did not make any comment. Someone must have used my account. I don't know anything about the subject.

[owardis397]

@caryinja Genetic shows hakka has high level of southern mtdna, but like most southern chinese all have high level of han paternal y-dna. Just go read genetics of hakka, they are lightly tilted towards han chinese. The purest southern chinese are the teachow, put even they have at least 43% of southern mtdna.

[caryinja]

@owardis397 I don't mean to be rude. Someone used my username to post a comment. I don't know anything about the subject.

[owardis397]

@Regentroepfchen09 You're an vietnanese....I ASK YOU KINDLY...why are you so interested southern chinese.According to genetic studies, hakka have heavy southern mtdna, while their y-dna is related with north han chinese. Nothing to do with koreans, they have completely different haplogroups not even 1% of genetic relations. Hakka genes are slightly tilted towards northern chinese but still to heavily mixed with southern mtdna.

[wolfofstorm]

Hakka is a race O_O

I talk hakka and my family said that im han...

[aliowhk]

my apology, Cambodian, Lao, Thai, south Vietnamese, Malay, are more of Khmer group, some miao do have dark southern skin and some tujia, bai-miao do look-a-like northern Chinese.

[niamtxiv]

The Miao-Yao have a long historical contact with the Yue and Nanman people. Today, many Miao-Yao intermarried with the modern Thai, Khmer and etc... which is why you have some who look Khmer now.

[niamtxiv]

The Yue are a group of many tribes that settle in Southeast of China while the Lolo/Man were a group of tribes living in Southwest China. The Miao-Yao, Tujia, Shui.. came from Central to East China. Don't speak nonsense when you don't know anything about Hmong history.

[aliowhk]

niamtxiv, u r right, in Huaxia time, Miao/Yao/Hmong are legendary descendant of Chiyou/ txiv yawg/ Chiwoo (Korean) of Shen-nong, as God of rain.

only after Qin/Han they're classified as

san-Miao who were defeated and chased southward by the then Han-ren.

for centuries they settle in Yunnan, guangxi, jiaochi (yue) area and intermarriage to form more than 30 tribes

of known by some as tujia, buji, li yao etc

thus from outlook some are more closely

lookalike Cambodia or Thai whom these

[yueluo2000]

@niamtxiv: you are right.

I think the term - Han Chinese race is the most propaganda of the world.

Han race meant nothing: but including of many races.

[aliowhk]

4) proto-Vietnamese are tribes of the Bai Yue (BachViet) called LacViet (LuoYue) as mentioned in S. Vietnam anthem, they

are primarily from Dongting Lake, Jiangxi Fujian, Guangzhou, Guangxi area and settle in Lingnam (Canton) or Jiaozhi Dao(Provinces), later generations, they married locally with Kinh and Champa(Malay) which known today modern Vietnamese. They are closer to Zhuang,

Hmong, Miao are more Cambodian or Thai linked

[ywintube]

aliowhk, thanks for info. I guess Zhuang is linked to Thai as their vocab with similarity, some can even communicate with each other with their own dialet; but not with Viets'.

[aliowhk]

ywintube, thanx, Zhuang & Tai(Thai?) language are closely related, and Zhuang language develop much later than Vietnamese Chu Nom. in modern time,

Zhuang live mainly in China and

Vietnam, may be some in Thai??

[ywintube]

According to antropology studies, a gp of ancient Zhuang in west of Guangxi (Hongshui or Red river basin) moved south to Thailand and intermixed with the aborigines 'Baipu?" and became Thai of today. Another gp moved north west/east to Yunan/Guizhou and known as "Dai" and "shuizu" of today. Accordingly their dialets are closely related.

[HaLong806]

iam Kinh vietnamese, i heard Hakka gentically related to us right? where did you learn all of vietnamese history?

[aliowhk]

Hakka did settle far and wide and tend to marry locally, not surprising they're genetically linked with kinh.

Chinese & Vietnamese history are closely linked, in fact, some pre-Vietnam

history are recorded only in Chinese due to Da Viet ( or Nam Viet) was a vassal state for 10 centuries.

[niamtxiv]

How the heck is Miao/Hmong are more Cambodian and Thai link? The Miao came from East China. Hmong are nowhere related to Cambodian or Thai. The Miao share 03marker with the Han. The Chinese themselves indicated that the Miao/Hmong came from the region of the Yellow River.

[ywintube]

niamtxiv, Miao/yao 02a (central Yangtze river basin?), Dongyi 02b(East China) in general, Miao/Yao may have included 03 marker as well over the years.

[DNAsecret]

no dongyi do not have O2b.

[ywintube]

I read a discussion forum on Li Hui's works in relation to ancient history of china. When 'San Miao' was defeated by Huangdi in central plain, Dongyi tribe moved northeast (some moved south) and intermixed with others(D and O3) and become Korean of today(mainly O2b); while  " Nanman" (miao/yao) retreated back to the south. Where's your data from?

[DNAsecret]

See his research carefully, there is no O2b found in miao/yao.And till now, no Y-SNP found in ancient Dongyi's land, the people there maybe relate to some malay. But the ruler class is not so certain.Because the Miao/Yao Y-SNP O3-line1 also found a little in today's shangdongers.

[DNAsecret]

In fact the Miao/Yao do not share the same Y-SNP, miao/yao's y-snp mainly focus on O3-line1(O3c+d)+O2a(they must mix with the southern aboriginals) and today's shandongers have a little. The koreans' O3-line1 is less than0.5% according to Japanese research and maybe bring there by shandongers

[ywintube]

Correct, miao/yao do not have O2b but have O2a. According to ancient Chinese history, after the defeat of "sanmiao", small group of Dongyi still remained in ancient Dongyi's land (Shangdong) and "Shaohao"( O3) was sent there as the ruler of the region.

[DNAsecret]

I think it is hard to say what real dongyi is.Because in different dynasty, the dongyi referred to different people,just like man/miao/yue/qiang and so on.

[ywintube]

You are right, I am just curious how genetics and archeology findings could shed some lights on the ancient civilisation. Anyway do you have the marker info on malay/khmer group?Li Hui had done some studies in Laos / Cambodia a few years ago. Do you have his latest findings?

[DNAsecret]

You can search this paper:Austro-Asiatic Populations originated in Mundari Tribes of India;I have heard his team had a lot of data of chinese/SE asians, but till now, a lot of study do not open to the public

[ywintube]

Tq!

[olylifter69kg]

@aliowhk no, its actually the Yaos who were native to Lake Dongting in northern Hunan province, the rest of the areas you mentioned were correct though, yue are usually associated with far eastern coastal regions or southern regions like guangxi/guangdong and are primarily tai-kadai, yue y-dna haplgroups are O2a + O1, while the Miao-Yao are primarily O3c-d + O3 carriers from central china (guizhou & hunan) and later mixed with O2a as they fled south

[aliowhk]

ywintube

thanks your comment.

1) Jiaozhi Dao(Giao Chi) part of Han dy covering mostly northern Vietnam.

2) Vietnamese origin - Shen-nong(Than Nong) 3rd generation son, Lac Long Quan (LuoLongJun) married Au Co (Ao Ji)

that gave birth to Vietnamese. these are

legendary.

3) Zhao Tuo (Trieu Da or Vu Vuong De) actually deserted Han emperor to become

a vassal state of DaViet to Han after defeating Thuc Phan's of An Duong Vuong

(AnYangWang)

[ywintube]

Zhao Tuo self proclaimed as King of Nanyue( Nanyuewang ) after the fall of Qin dynasty, while Liu Pang,1st emperor of Han Dynasty was busy fighting with Zhobawang to wrest control of China in Central Plain. Infact Zhao Tuo's Nanyue guo lasted almost 100 years as the Emperors of Han dynasty were busy figthing the barbaric Xiongnu from the north. It was Hanwudi the Great emperor after defeated Xiongnu, turned to the south and reunified China as the great Han empire and the people as 'Hanren'.

[Yu99Ea]

客家人长得非常靠近印支半岛的马来人。可能有着百越？

[waitred]

乱讲，起源中原，怎么会有马来人的血统，

[ywintube]

Perhaps very few Hakka in Indonesia and Malaysia married the local malay and their decendents carry the their traits.

[ywintube]

Ancient Han ren intermixed with the local "She" tribe and and Hakka dialet was created. "She" is also the decendents of BAIYUE. I read a report saying that you can communicate with 'She'tribe in Hakka. Anyone have tried that?

[DNAsecret]

she is yao's decendents

[ywintube]

DNAsecret, In general 01 for Bayue, 03 for Han, what is Yao's marker?

[DNAsecret]

O3c+d and O2a

[ywintube]

DNAsecret, TQ

[ywintube]

DNAsecret, and what's the marker for She?

[DNAsecret]

O3c+d+e

[chonglansang]

DNAsecret : what is the marker for Hakka people? What is Hakka Y-SNP, Y-STR and mtDNA?

[aliowhk]

Many Hakka also from Longxi, in Gansu province

they lived in the moutainous area because they're the late comers or refugees, they also

moved down during Han and Tang era together with

the Cantonese or as Tang ren.

the last Hakka migration during Qing had saw them in far places of Sandakan, Palembang, and

Tahiti, Mauritius etc etc.

Hakka also become the daily or working language in many of these places.

[ywintube]

Longxi of Gangsu is the LEE(surname) clan inhabited area, they are not called Hakka then but were also the ancient HAN ren. When these ancient Han ren moved to the south and intermixed with the local 'She' tribe in the mountainous borders of Guangdong/ Fujian/ Jiangsi, Hakka as a new tribe and new dialet was evolved over the years. Cantonese ancestors mass migrated to the south during the CHIN dynasty(~214 BC). YAYEN was their old language which was commonly used during

Confucius time(~600 BC)

[slimstan]

indeed the term Hakka (kejia) was coined in

Qing dy. and many derivative hakka dialects were also evolved during these 5 mass migrations.

it's also evident that perhaps old ancient Chinese like Hakka or Cantonese (Yayen) may be official spoken language during the Sui, Tang, or earlier dynasties

[ywintube]

Correct.When Emperor Shi Huang Di unified the then China,he decreed old Mandarin as the Official language.The Cantonese ancestor migrated to southern china during the Chin dynasty (~210BC) and when Chin dynasty collapsed (~180BC) , the Chin military Chief,Chaoduo self proclaimed as King of Nanyue ruling southern China and northern Vietnam. So YAYEN was left alone evolving to become Cantonese of today; that's why it cannot communicate with Mandarin, while Hakka can,with difficulties though.

[aliowhk]

Qin's (Chin) Military Chief, Zhao Tuo(Chaoduo) also Trieu Da in Vietnamese, crowned

himself the Vu Vuong De (WuWangDi)after defeating the LacViet (LuoYue)'s Thuc Phan Dynasty of An Duong vuong (AnYang Wang)

Hakka, by linguistic, part of archaic Hanyu

[ywintube]

aliowhk, do u have information on origin of the viet? "Jiaozhi" province was ancient Vietnam as reported in ancient literature. Some Viet claim "Shengnong" is their ancestor and Zhao Tuo (Vu Vuong De) as their great king who unified their warring tribes. I guess Viet is the distant cousin of the hmong/yao/miao tribes?

[HaLong806]

origin of Kinh vietnamese settles in northern vietnam where the red river delta is, bordering south china.

[ywintube]

Good work; I thought Hakka is a mixed of ancient 'Han' and native 'She'tribe living in the mountainous region of Hokkien-Guangdong-Jiangsi provincial borders and according to a recent report Hakka genetically inherited 70+%

of Han and 20+% native She's trait.

[Jinntsai]

很害怕被欺侮

[stephentsang2000]

為什麼客家人都得住貧窮山區?

[yyyzhang]

他们南迁的时候当地平原都已经被之前南下的其余汉人给占了

[ywintube]

Correct, their ancestor migrated south at the end of Han and Tang dynasty a few hundred years after the ancestor of Cantonese who migrated to the south during the Chin dynasty at about 200 BC.

[680LBS]

Cantonese are largely mixed with the locals in south thats why they're called punties.

[ywintube]

Do Cantonese in Guangdong/Guangxi/ Hongkong called themselves as 'punties' ? I don't think so. They like to call themselves as 'Guangfu/Guangdong yan' . Even the Hakka in Hongkong don't use the term 'Punti'.

Both Cantonese and Hakka are sub-Han groups.

[680LBS]

iam aware they usually call themselves tongyan or guangdongyan, during the clan wars they were called punties,

[ywintube]

Which clan wars? in old China or elsewhere?

[680LBS]

in old china, actually punties can also refer to any local person,