Emerging vs. Emergent

[darthfocus]

WRONG,. the answers aren't emerging, believers look like believers 1 peter 2. The culture was dead and wicked 2000 years ago and Christians need to follow the example in scripture, there is no new secret missional (bogus word) formula.Preach the gospel, live the gospel, love Jesus and the brethren, honor all men, etc... God didn't change the plan just because people have iphones and drink post modern coffee.

[StormTrek]

One of the things I like about Driscoll is that he speaks clearly. I don't agree with him but at least I understand what he's talking about. Some of the emerging church guys use Christian-speak but never fill you in on exactly what they mean. It's like you fill in the blanks with whatever you happen to think they mean.

[homestar4ever]

I like how the desiring God logo is now on every youtube video (go fullscreen and then look at the zoom out logo).

[daveme7]

In the end-I claim fundamentaliusm and Calvinism while also a Baptist-in the 19th cemntury in Washington, PA baptizing the Campbellite group-if they decided to call themselves Baptist-I think most Baptists would repudiate that name.

Not sure if it is a shamr a shame-stay away from this guy. I wander if he ever shares the name of the philosophy used such as emergent evolution.

[Pfsif]

"in need of the Church", no people are in need of Christ Mr. Clergy guy. People need Christ not Church, He does not dwell in temples made with hands.

[coltizzle1]

This is what happens when someone minors in undergrad philosophy and becomes a pastor. Laughable.

[waluum]

...The missionary of today looks the same as the missionary of yesterday: set apart for God, denying self and worldliness to bring the simple and pure truth to those who do not know it. Anything less is not pleasing to God as it only partially honors Him - as Christ said, those who do not keep His word do not love Him (John 14:23).

[waluum]

"...hipper, cooler, trendier." Where do you think these things come from? They are born of the world. Meanwhile God calls us to be set apart from the world. Would God have us deny His command in order to attract people who do not know Him on their terms? Would He have us straddle the line and be divided, to extend a worldly hand and a Godly hand to them?...

[masterkeep]

@waluum God calls us to be IN the world but not OF the world. The thing he is talking about is the struggle as to making the message understandable without bowing to culture. We are called to transform the culture but exactly how is the struggle. Obviously with truth but not all of culture needs to be confronted with say songs that are just bar tunes from 200 years ago [Martin Luther's hymns] or only slightly newer.

[waluum]

@masterkeep : what is the "message" but the substance of it? Do you deny the substance of Luther's hymns? You seem to in calling them "bar tunes". Would emulating the shortcomings of the modern world as a twist on the message of Christ truly be able to preserve the substance of that message? How will anyone love Christ if they reject His substance, which permeated the old church culture far more than an emerging one that seeks to compromise it (putting success in conversion above holiness)?

[masterkeep]

@waluum I am not challenging the message of Luther's hymns, just the tune that they follow. Luther was acting as the "4th wave" of emerging in that he took the familiar music of the day and added words that taught the gospel. That is what Mark is talking about here, just not with music only. The message content isn't what they are changing, just the language of the culture for comprehension. For example, Jesus used agrarian language that our bible translators even don't understand [Jn 15:2].

[Jesse859]

Whether it's the Emerging Church or the Emergent Church, it's all going in the same direction - Away from truth toward deception.

[devanaire]

WRONG- Emerging is biblical, emergent explains away scripture. That is false and ignorant of you to say. Unbiblical as well. Be careful.

[daveme7]

I would agree except missional is very wrapped in incarnational. What does this mean? Basically it is adopting Hegels dialectics where God is in everything and so trees are our brothers and land our sisters. Missional has not been explained in any other way

[SwordSaintSlayer]

@Jesse859 Emerging simply means a new church. Kinda the Church 2.0 as Mark was chatting about. He and many other youngies would be in the 4th stream, the reformed theology calvinisictic preachers who use hip hop instead of traditional music and blah. Watch the Vid bro :)

[daveme7]

@Jesse859 On a different way to explain this which goes with this thought-they are going away from God or away from truth

[PureFireArcher]

i like pizza

[billybee53]

I'm an Atheist and it becomes clearer by the minute to me that you are each and every one completely and utterly insane....but keep tearing each other down, it's kind of fun & sad to watch.

[DeJay17Revolution]

atheist do the same to believers its all argues

[dson2]

billybee - i think you may be assuming that the characteristics of christians (part) are dispositive in determining the truth/characteristics of God (the whole). if you've taken logic 101 you know that's a logical fallacy. the shortcomings of christians don't show that God does not exist but (i think) they highlight our need for salvation all the more.

[billybee53]

You must have spent countless hours in deep study in order to be able to crap this shit out from between your ears. I'm never sure who you 'navel-gazing' types of christians are trying to impress....?

You can talk till your blue in the face but I'm not buying one word. If there is an all powerful being that what's to say something to me...he/she/it should be able to to so with zero ambiguity. In the meanwhile, I'll take the safe/obvious bet that it is all bullshit. The end.

[KGBson]

Dude why are you so angry and bitter, I thought you atheists are perfect since you have figured the world out? By the way your view of God and etc, doesn't change a thing... The only sad part of tis is that you believe into something you have no idea about... never studied the argument of existence of God, just believe what somebody told you with all of the baggage in your life... your responses tell the story already... very sad for you...

[BlastMasterDeph]

im gnostic and agree, their are deep divisions and the chasm grows wider.

[Shevaberakhot]

My faith is in Christ crucified, resurrected and glorified. This is the start and end point, of my faith not a church of human traditions and delusions.

[Shevaberakhot]

I don't despise the Emergent or Emerging Church at all, I rather think that the Church (of whatever hue) has become rather ineffective in the spiritual realm.

[JesusFishMinistries]

The true church is very effective. You sadly mistake what people call a church as church. The church is not a denomination, building or any thing of the sort. The real church will always be effective.

[JesusFishMinistries]

Mister goldstead attempted to converse with me via PM but it seems all he can do is point fingers. He refused to provide any evidence for his faith in science and even was so flustered that he decided to "block me" So I hope he reads this and decides to prove his beliefs before he continues to degrade ours. We admit it is by faith, why is it so hard for them to do the same.

[Shevaberakhot]

JesusFishMinistries: If Jesus (="Logos") who cares about updating the music?

[JesusFishMinistries]

Whats your point. Music? What in the comment I posted mentioned logos or music? Please expound your reasoning.

[Shevaberakhot]

My point? Mark Driscoll equates the life of the Church to "updating music". I beg to differ. God sent His Messiah not for us to play Church; but to be transformed into His likeness.

[JesusFishMinistries]

1. You should have just said that then. When you comment on another comment you are refering to that post and not the general video then. SO thus your thought was lost.

2. I agree fully. I despise the emerging church and its seeker sensitive methods and believe them to be heresy. My comment dealt with goldstead attack on our faith not the emerging church. be careful w/ assumptions.

[Shevaberakhot]

Be careful with getting too involved with people who are caught up in the inanities of this world. Keep focused on your inner life, on He who will save you from the judgment that is falling on the earth.

[JesusFishMinistries]

Not sure what kind of Oprah Winfrey stuff you believe in but my faith is in nothing but Jesus and Him crucified.

[johnshelley120]

Its interesting that hardly any of the responding comments have anything to do with the actual topic of the video, which is the emerging church. Christianity is an easy target, so I suppose its not surprising to see base attacks with little intellectual honesty.

[theatwo]

Christianity is a POPULAR target. When faced with Christianity all other world views become militant. Which in it's self proves the authenticity of Christianity. It is an easy topic because many Christians are not educated at all in Bible doctrine to be able to relay it properly to the lost. Thank you for your time.

[goldstead]

You talk of "evidence"? Please be the first person from any religion, anytime in history to show evidence of God, miracles, angels, ressurection, virgin bith and all the other mythical nonsense. If you cannot - then clearly you worrship FRAUD.

[JesusFishMinistries]

goldstead

I find it interesting that people like you are so quick to call for evidence for our beliefs yet you blindly follow evoultion without an ounce of empirical evidence. Have you ever seen evoultion (one specie to another, not mutations or virus adaptions) If so then by all means post some links to show us unlearned any example of one specie becoming another. You need a serious reality check. You have your faith we have ours.

[goldstead]

Religious people - please come with any evidence of your mythological beliefs - miracles, angels, big boss in the sky, virgin mother - please, give the world some evidence. If not, then surely you are worshiping fraud and the no.1 cause of war for the past 2,000 years - yes?

[tlsnow44]

I don't worship fraud. I don't worship the #1 cause of war for the past 2000 years. In fact I would even say it's probably used more than the last 2000 years. The evidence is all around you. The problem is you don't look. I have seen enough evidence and believe I'll see even more in the future. Why? Cause I have actually looked. Ask God to show you and he will. He isn't a big boss. The secondary line of evidence is in the bible.

[tlsnow44]

Wars using Christianity are used by people who misrepresent God. Not represent. If you are going to debate with the evidence of mispresenting christians then your truth is no greater than there's. Read the bible yourself.

[goldstead]

Keep the bible to yourself, and keep deluding yourself with mythical nonsense. If you ever find any "evidence" please come forward and tell and show the world - you will go down in history.

[Imaginefree69]

Yes, people are emerging! And it's TIME to emerge! What is actually happening in these times, of course, is that education and reason are FINALLY making religion redundant. More than redundant, really, obsolete and harmful are more accurate. YHWH was invented by bronze-age desert-dwellers who were ignorant and afraid of the dark. Now we know that eclipses and storms and disease are not caused by invisible sky-dwellers. Education destroys religion. Every time. And it's time.

[BloodyHellDevil]

Wow's that arrogant. And ignorant. HAHAHA

[Imaginefree69]

"Wow's that arrogant. And ignorant."

How do you figure, Devil?

Just look around the world-

are people more religious in Sweden or in Ethiopia?

In Britain or in Columbia?

In New York or in Arkansas?

In Snob Nob or in a trailer park?

It's simply a fact, neither arrogant nor ignorant.

[aeuiono]

You can thank two institutions for Western education. The first is religion, going back to the Renaissance. The second is the government, which has only been in the education racket for about 80 years.

[Imaginefree69]

"The first is religion, going back to the Renaissance"

It's true that the RCC preserved much knowledge from the religious and governmental depredations,

but it also prevented the common man from becoming literate.

"The second is the government"

And today fundamentalists who have no knowledge of science

are successfully using the government of the USA

to drag our science classes back into the bronze age,

where their religion was invented.

[soapidelic]

I dunno. Not to contradict you because I actually agree with you but would going back to the Bronze Age be so bad? I mean look at technology. Sure a lot of it saves lives with our advances in medical science but a majority of it goes to destroying lives. It is strange though that the ones who want to use technology to destructive ends are religious. Well maybe not strange, just sad.

[Imaginefree69]

" but would going back to the Bronze Age be so bad?"

That's not a bad point.

But...

Humans are facing genuine, serious problems.

Problems that will not be solved

by folding our hands in prayer

and hoping some fictitious literary character

will swoop down soon and rescue us!

[soapidelic]

That's true. But is berating those who believe in God going to help either? I dunno. Just something I've been thinking about. I think it's better instead of trying to prove God doesn't exist, it's better to speak to religious people within the context of their religion and show them how to use their beliefs to empower themselves to do better. To me religion is like a placebo. It's not real but it produces real results when used right. The trick is to not come at them as an enemy.

[Imaginefree69]

"produces real results..." I appreciate your perspective, Soap, but after 50 years in the church (40 as a pastor) I believe religion to be unsalvageable. It is altogether evil. Truth cannot be built upon a foundation of lies and delusion. There have been some (think of the Jesus People movement in the 1060s and 70s) who tried to use the positive parts of christianity, to base their views and actions on the teachings of Jesus, but the Orthodox Church had to either engulf it or kill it.

[silverlakes211]

Give me Joel Osteen or Rob Bell any day. This guy is abusive angry and mean!

[YoutibYoutib]

He really won my esteem with that sad, self-serving aside about his undergraduate work (the long haul towards a minor) on how Descartes' work marks the transition from modernity to post-modernism. Uhh. Wait, I'm sure he misspoke -- he clearly meant to refer to the transition from the late medieval period to inaugural modern thinkers like Descartes...right? What a tool. And that fruity shell necklace. I thought he and his ilk believe homosexuals are icky? Talk about your mixed messages.

[kc7fys]

I have to wholeheartedly agree with you on this. This guy is very smug, as well. He seems to have become a tempest in a teapot, as well.The choker is a bit insulting, too--clearly an attempt at being "accessible" to the "youth." That's condescending. I'm glad there is a forum for comments here, because this man is resoundingly unpopular in our household. It's very condescending how he speaks about anyone unfamiliar with his coterie of evangelical Christians.

[nels7118]

yes you can!!!! you do it the same way you call out to your son playing in the street... you yell "Get out of the Street" it may sound harsh and hurt but its because you know he could get smoked by a car

The same principal applies

You love them and others by pointing out there errors

[kc7fys]

I love you, so I am pointing out numerous syntactical and mechanical errors in your comment. I'm not judging you, but my Funk & Wagnell's says you're bad. Change your ways! Again, I am not judging you. Here--I'll misspell something myself to identify with you. Irregardless!

[danieljr3]

This guy soeaks like any fundamentalist people

[piegie]

You have added nothing to the conversation. We fundamentalist know what we sound like and you liberals do to. Thanks for stating the obvious

[JNdigital]

I think the person u responded to here has said that fundamentalists seek and soak (perhaps in Holy water) using only one descriptive word, whoa

[TheStyleHammer]

Not bad stuff - much better than Robbie Bell and Osteen

[waluum]

@TheStyleHammer Better is not always good enough. I suggest looking into John MacArthur, Paul Washer, Jeff Noblit, Leonard Ravenhill, Carter Conlon, David Wilkerson, and Tim Conway.

[juuush]

You're forgetting that Driscoll makes sure, every time he mentions are preachers, that he doesn't mean to bring them down, just their teaching. And besides look at this conversation now; if we aren't to speak against our brothers, then what are you doing now? Hypocrisy? I don't mean any offense by this, I promise, I just mean to illustrate a point; How is your youtube comment any less of a pulpit than a physical crowd? Essentially, it's not.

[LordSetta]

Well personally I think that he should be concentrating more on teaching his congregation the word of God and his love and not spending time critizicing others teachings. What buisness is it of his what he teaches his congregation. Especially whne it comes to speaking to his own. If he has a problem with someones teaching he should go to him not try nd tell your congregation how wrong it is that he believes a certain way. People are way to caught up in what everyone else are doing.

[juuush]

I'm guessing you have watched the one message where a PART of it shows excerpts from one of Osteen's messages which typifies the prosperity gospel teaching? The way you speak it's as if Driscoll makes it a regular point of bringing others down when, if you'd only understand the context of your own argument, you'd know that he ALWAYS speaks to his congregation and addresses their needs. And besides, aren't you being hypocritical, by criticizing what he teaches his own congregation? ;)

[LordSetta]

I didn't say his teachings were wrong.I just don'tthink it is neccessary to try and prove others wrong to further your own beliefs.You shouldnt have to make reference to others teachings to teach others.And I am basing this off of what you guys were talking about not what I have seen so it is more of a general comment.I don't think anyone should do it.regardless of what denomination.Everyone should be teaching by setting the example not by having pissing contests. Not enough love in the church.

[piegie]

It's very important to prove false teachings false to further the Gospel. This is not a discussion of beleif this is a discussion of truth. The prosperity gospel is false and should be shown to be so.

[Imaginefree69]

"It's very important to prove false teachings false" I agree. The Bible says the earth is flat. And that the sun revolves around the earth. And that humans are made of dirt. And that snakes and donkeys talk. And that insects have 4 legs. And that bats are birds. And that animals appeared AFTER man but BEFORE woman. These things are false, and need to be shown as such.

[altarofego]

Why are you interpreting the Bible like a fundamentalist? I agree it is easier to attack that way, but it is a bit intellectually disingenuous if you intend to debunk the historic Christian church.

[Imaginefree69]

"Why are you interpreting the Bible like a fundamentalist?"

Because that is who I am speaking to.

I don;'t know where you got the assumption

that I am "intend[ing] to debunk the historic Christian church"

but such is not the case.

[juuush]

I agree with you that we should cover our brothers in Christ, but I disagree when you insinuate that Driscoll seeks to "expose" them; he states certain teachings are not to be adhered to solely, not to shun them altogether. Anyway your quote from Matthew 7 is about hypocrisy, judging while you suffer from the same affliction. We're ordered by Christ to hold our brothers accountable, not to pretend that their fallible ways are right and true... especially for those who stand at the pulpit.

[juuush]

Well I definitely think you worded your "expression of opinion" rather harshly. You're not helping to make the world a better place by cutting down men of God without valid reasoning. When Ps Driscoll "attacks" Joel Osteen or Mark Bell (and even in those instances he always states that he loves them as brothers in Christ and doesn't intend to bring them down), he backs it up with Biblical quotation, with the truth of the Word.

I'll defend Driscoll while he stands on God's truth unwaveringly.

[daveme7]

@juuush Try Jesus Christ, he is so much better than Phil Drischoll

[Jakard]

Here's the problem with the comments that some of you have made about Pastor Mark Driscoll. How many of you have really listened to him at any length? How many of you have spent any time in the city of Seattle.

The fact is, Pastor Driscoll has a very sound theology and that's what drew me to Mars Hill in the first place. Seattle is the most unchurched city in America and he's doing great things for Christ.

[josh16888]

its late. im tired. point is, this guy is out there doing stuff and also holds to strong biblical theology. until i can find something i disagree with him on, ive got his back over the haters who are posting stuff

[subwayscool]

If you want to find some real Christians go look up the Chinese christians who are arrested and tortures or the ones in Darfur who get their houses blown up and are still filled with the Joy of Jesus Christ. Go google "voice of the martyrs" and see a genuine christianity. There are genuine christians here and they preach and teach the Bible not pop culture or psychology. Whether they're Indie or in a suit and tie they'll be easy to spot because the act like Jesus. They're just too few.

[hypermonkey24]

There are Christians here too in the U.S. Having money, wealth, or freedom from that kind of persecution doesn't make Christians any less "REAL". And Joy is available to Christains here too.

The way I see it without a balance to prosperity and suffering doctrines one is straying from the Truth.

[subwayscool]

Hate the bible if you want, just keep reading it, I hope God speaks to you and turns you into a real Christian. As a Christian, after observing christian history and reading the Bible I've come to the conclusion that as Christians we don't ever step up and live like it until bad stuff happens to us anyways. Maybe then the ethnic Christians will quit and the real ones will start actually praying and reading their Bibles. Christianity doesn't need to be hip, it needs to be real.

[nremedios]

you sound like my brother a fuller graduate who is now in rehab , get over your self mate you make me sad

[BeauJames59]

Someone is reading this right now that has been really hurt and confused by these "indie Christians" that somehow their religion is different than the crap you grew up with. Fear and self loathing in a brown tee shirt, leather necklace and jeans is still fear and self-loathing....go to evilbibleDOTcom, really read what's in there, and then be free

[Stebango]

the root problem is shared between many "christians" and non-christians. Even the site u mentioned shares in this trait: a lack of scriptural understanding and knowledge. Please stop ur promoting your hatred for the Bible. If anyone wants to really be free, God's word, and only God's word will set u free. Free from the lies and deceit of this evil world. Just look at the carnage in the world as we get farther away from God.

[crisbeam]

It is apparent that Mark Driscoll knows nothing about the emergent church. Haha. Of course, I wouldn't listen to him even if we did. We're talking about the guy who stood up at the Southern Baptist convention and called people BY NAME and said they were heretics. When did Southern Baptists become so "right," in their theology? Last time I checked, at least the Emergents practice what they believe.

[Stebango]

As I understand it, he was part of the emerging church. Emerging church: culture defines the church, NOT the church defines culture. Most ppl I've heard from the emerging church movement were whacked. Hey man let's have church in Starbucks! or Hey how about we play some led zep in church!?... right on... yeah.. cool. That's really about Christ right? Is that profitable in any regard?

[GraemeMDBSc]

While I don't agree with all of this guy's methods/ideas I really love the way he is trying to speak into the culture of the time... th way Paul did. Respect

[pbcinla]

What would I do in this secular culture? Do what the early church did: Worship God in liturgy using the scriptures and sacraments. What other choice do you have?

[dpmduran]

The choices are infinite, for those who truly seek! You would be surprised at how we don't even question what we think?

Try it sometime, and the answers may surprise you! I do believe in a Divine plan, but it's been perverted by man's plan!

[pbcinla]

You mean for those who are not satisfied with word and sacrament. In short, what Jesus has instituted.

[dpmduran]

Jesus spoke the truth!  It's man that has perverted it and divided it, into many sects!

[pbcinla]

Which truth? You said the choices are infinite. How do you divide from infinite choice? You cannot have it both ways.

"No doubt there have to be divisions among you to show which of you have God's approval."

1 Corinthians 11:19

[dpmduran]

ALL paths eventually lead to God! So relax, and realize that NO ONE has exclusive rights to which path one takes, or is born into!

We are here to find OUR OWN way, that an individual has chosen for themselves, through spiritual seeking!

[pbcinla]

Then you have nothing to contribute here: You do not need to FIND anything if ALL paths lead to God. Just do whatever you want.

Jesus spoke the truth: "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me."

[dpmduran]

You're right! Nothing that would matter, at least here, at this site!

If you were born in Japan, Buddha would be saying the same thing, in different words, to a different culture! Same in India etc...we are ALL God's children!

[pbcinla]

Why say anything at all is what I'm asking. I'm OK, you're OK...etc.

[dpmduran]

Now you are finally making sense! Touche'

[pbcinla]

So why are you inconsistent, then, with your point of view? You demonstrate it is an unsustainable position.

Notice, you do not answer my question. Is it because you have no ANSWER?

[dpmduran]

Read it again! We are all OK in God's eyes!

[pbcinla]

Strange sense of justice you have. Hitler, Stalin, serial rapists, child abusers, human traffickers, thieves, liars, etc. They are just fine and dandy with God, eh?

[dpmduran]

I agree what what you just said! Very well put, and the Jesus quote, Buddha and other Enlightened Teachers said the same thing, if you study other beliefs, so maybe now you can understand, it's all in where you were born!

[dustint1244]

You are right all paths lead to God....one leads to forgiveness from God...and all others lead to condemnation from God

[dpmduran]

You have the 1st part right! Our own actions condemn ourselves! God has nothing to do with it!

[WaynerMartin]

Is man's plan stronger than a divine plan? If it is, is it truly Divine?

[dpmduran]

Divine plans is ALWAYS stronger then man's! But man makes bad choices, not in harmony with God's Divine plan, which is for each Soul to become aware and free!

My God does not condemn anyone, or anything! He allows us to do that to ourselves! Then we pay the price, and hopefully learn from it, and evolve to the next test!

[WaynerMartin]

What I was getting at was, if a Divine plan is NOT fulfilled because man has made some bad choices, who's plan is stronger?

[dpmduran]

God's obviously, as I just agreed! We are the one's who are imperfectly speaking for him, and most have no idea how to surrender completely!

They seem to know they are the only one's who are right, which is man's Ego speaking, not God!

[WaynerMartin]

If God's plan is stronger, and overpowers man's plan, then everything works out to his glory.

So WE do not condemn ourselves, but God does. Because what is "wrong" except what He has shown us to be wrong? It is only correct to assume that he punishes for what is wrong since he defined it.

[dpmduran]

You contradict yourself, again! No one said man has a plan, thank God, since he's messed up enough of the world, and himself, already!

God is unknowable, but this much I do know: God does NOT behave as a human being, giving IT the qualities of man! You are shaping God into YOUR limited image! God is beyond what our minds could ever comprehend!

[WaynerMartin]

How do you know that? I mean, I would agree with the fact that God doesn't behave as a human, but from what knowledge do you base it?

There is no contradiction. If I desire to mess up the earth, I can, right? If God desired me NOT to mess up the earth, would he stop me?

If he is perfect (he is) he can do as he pleases. Obviously it pleases him to see us mess up the earth.

[dpmduran]

It's not a contest! God created man, so if man KNOWS that, then it's the same plan. If man or woman doesn't, then they suffer! It's really quite simple.

[WaynerMartin]

I don't think you get what I'm trying to say.

Man and God CANNOT have opposing wills. EVER. AT ALL. NEVER. God has a plan, we walk in it without a choice.

If we suffer, it is God's decision, ultimately.

[dpmduran]

I get it, but I just don't agree! We always have choices, otherwise, we would be robots, and God didn't create mankind, without a free will. We make own mistakes.

We are here to learn, and grow! Earth is like a school. Maybe, but doubt you will "get" that!

[WaynerMartin]

Do we need to have free will to learn? What if it only FEELS like we have free will? Could we still learn?

How do you know that God didn't create mankind without a free will? Because it seems that we have it? I believe it is YOU who is applying man-like features to God.

[dpmduran]

I know what I know, the same way you do! So what more can we say, when it's a matter of, at least for me, something from within!

We are where we are, and that's how it is! God's Will, which is also man's, once we become conscious beings!

[WaynerMartin]

No, I know what I know because it is from the Bible. If I were to base everything on feelings, then everything would be good. There would be no right or wrong.

With your way of thinking, I can murder you and it be good. Hitler felt that what he was doing was right. Was he correct?

[dpmduran]

We suffer, because the conflict is in our minds!

No one's opposing God's Divine plan, except those that aren't even aware of why they are here, or don't ask questions, as to what is true. Many think you may be wrong, but I just think you are right, because that's what's right for YOU now!

[WaynerMartin]

Everyone experiences conflict in their minds. I can't decide between Coke or Pepsi. Am I suffering?

I think you are missing what I am trying to say.

WE CANNOT FIGHT GOD'S PLAN. NO ONE CAN. IT WILL HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT.

[dpmduran]

Silly example, first of all, when a better one could have been, should we pull the plug, or not! Now that involves suffering, usually on both ends of a family!

And who's fighting God's plan? Only God knows what it is, but just knowing that, gives us purpose and meaning here!

[dpmduran]

I don't know? Does man even have a plan, he's so asleep? Once man wakes up, God's Divine plan rules.

Otherwise, what's the point of life?

[pbcinla]

I believe in the church "once for all delivered to the saints". Emerge by definition is heresy.

[gkm66]

Einstein said two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. This guy is evidence of the latter.

[ibepresodent]

Bigotry much?

[dpmartinis]

Jesus NEVER came to even establish a religion, called Christianity!

The Bible was written 300 years later, by MEN, from word of mouth!

Churches are a product of man's design, not Gods! A flower has more spirituality then 1 minute in a church, populated by mostly hypocrites.

[rickyboy222]

Old testament was complete 400 years before Christ, and the new was done within the apostles life time. Where do you get your facts?

[dpmduran]

There are no facts! Only a knowing, that comes from within us, when we have a conscious, aware presence of God!

The world of form is not real, and the only reality is formless. What you speak of is man made. Look at the state of the world, and you'll get your facts there!

[bibchr]

dpmduran -- "There are no facts!"

Is that a fact?

[juuush]

That's a really mature "eye for an eye" moral standing you've got there, ptw1. Keep perpetuating that message to the masses, I'm sure it will change society for the better. Not.

[Conail23]

we need to do what the Bible shows us a Church should do not try to change to 'fit in' with the times. CHurches are for ppl of every age not just 1 generation

[CrossSoldier20]

How to do church?!! Read the book of Acts!!! Atually, just read the new testament

[dpmartinis]

Why is going to church even an issue????? God is all around us, within and more inspiring in nature, then in the uninspiring looking churches built today!

[juuush]

You can say this, and it may seem a logical train of thought when put objectively like that, but then you're going against much of what the New Testament is about: planting churches, building churches, growing churches.

The Christian church is God's design for the AD world to reach the lost; if you scorn this then you are scorning God's will. Please don't do that :)

[gkm66]

This dude makes my skin crawl.

[dpmartinis]

RIGHT ON BROTHER, OR SISTER!

[starscream077]

tthreadwell, don't even go there. what driscoll is talking about and what you're attempting to make him say isn't even close. not on the same level and you should be ashamed of yourself for even making an attempt at comparing the two.

[tthreadwell]

Great Job Mark. If energing church is of God it will last. If its not it will die, but I for one refuse to have a closed mind. In the past it is the closed minds that took a savor to a cross.

[GreaterFaith1990]

People, he is passionate about Truth...he is not "emergent" in his theology, he is in that Reformed stream that he mentioned

[fixitdude74]

Does everyone see what i see? This man, Mark Driscoll is really concerned for christianity in America, and primarily the 20-30yr old males, who really are the next generation to run the country, and lead us, so why cut the man down because your view of how we should worship our god on high, we should embrace his ideas and values, after all he's not asking you to send him thousands of dollars is he?

[VUTRUDOIN]

he kinda makes emergent sound like a different flavor that may be equally justified! when in fact emergent teachings are an abomination to GOD!

[1stpanzerguy]

Dang, the guy sucks. But I like the make up of his congregation though. 100% white. Ok, maybe not "100%," 98%.

[VUTRUDOIN]

what an unrighteous judgment! and what does race have anything to do with it!

[mtseilback]

very helpful video.

[l33tpwnzord]

dude is full of himself

[buck2576]

Naw, just confident in the Bible. Totally different. Now what YOU said may have been full or yourself because you are accusing without confronting this dude. Hm . . .

[l33tpwnzord]

Is "knowing them" the criteria for seeing that they are full of themself?

Think it through.

[stufflesy]

yes

[l33tpwnzord]

I love how everyone on here -1's ANY criticism or discussion of mark driscoll. Like blind little drones. Let's remember the danger of worshipping man instead of God.

[MITZMAN]

Boy..its' sure a good thing that men like Driscoll were here to rescue the Church from its failed and miserable past. ( Tongue firmly planted in my non-emergent fundamental mouth )

[MisterXian]

I once worked for a fundamentalist. He would have agreed whole-heartedly with you. I can't speak for you, not knowing you, but he took the whole (Pascals) God shaped hole in his heart thing so seriously that it seemed he felt God was no bigger then the shaped hole in his heart. So he lived a dualistic exsistence. On one side of his heart he loved his sports and music that was from his past (either pre-conversion days or what he could justify after conversion)

[MisterXian]

and on the other side (must have been the side the "God shaped hole was on") he struggled with anything that could threaten that hole-sized God he had in his heart. He lived such a legalistic life he became completely out of touch with the world he was called to reach. His view is the pre-existent Christ had to have been a Jewish man in heaven, because God wouldn't change to meet a culture.

[MisterXian]

It was hard for him to even fathom that God actually became a poor equivalent to us becoming a pile of crap... just to reach the lost humans to Him. He became sin, became the curse to lift Adam's Sin from the earth. I still pray for my old boss, and if he would respond the same as you, I would encourage him that before he totally throws out a man's ministry that he does a little due diligence and looks at the message the man brings. Thanks.

Coram Deo

MisterXian

[Anakrino]

I listened to Driscoll for a few months. The only thing that threw me is that he is a bit crass for a pastor, and secondly his ESP-like experiences with visions after shaking peoples hands. However, he's not afraid to preach and his model for church polity (plurality of elders) seems spot on.

[tim2972]

Is organic church part of the emerging church or more the house church movement?

[simontomek]

You go Driscoll! This guy knows what he talks about.

[ursey2003]

yep, thank you very much!

[prunepitts]

DJ

I did not know you did the YouTube thing. Thanks for posting this.