Who cares if they were ministers or not? The fact of the matter is that our country was founded on biblical beliefs and we as a nation have strayed away from it. People are arguing over stupid stuff and missing the big picture. God sent his son to die on the cross to save us of our sins so that we may have a chance at everlasting life in heaven. If we aren't careful our nation is going to fall into the hands of ignorant, low IQ, hell-bound people.
Pretty sure this woman has a personal vendetta against Barton and Beck. Both are truly Godly men who are feared by people like this lady. This woman and many other people like her fear the TRUTH
@BenjaminClear1 Attacking her as having a "personal vendetta" against Barton and Beck doesn't qualify as refuting her argument. Of course, what more can I expect from historical revisionists who do not have a scholarly consensus to back them up.
oh and usasoldier. if it was an afermation it violates the constitution.. and besides an acknowledgment that there were a lot of christians is not an affermation that this is a christian nation..
Just because someone is Christian, doesn't mean they have to have in every facet of their lives. Look at the middle east (no offense to middle easterners) and how religion shapes their governments. It would be great if politicians could leave their personal lives out of politics and the founding fathers new that thus is why they worded things the way they did. This is how religion takes over, they make up stuff then say its the truth, and dumb people listen to it and its the end of the story
I know for a fact that Benjamin Franklin wasn't christian, he may not have been an atheist, but wasn't christian and he was probably the biggest reason that the constitution was ever finished and he was the ambassador for the U.S, as well as post master. He spent a good portion of his life in Europe pushing for support for the young country. He wasn't even home when his wife died. Just because it says God doesn't mean anything. How many Gods have there been during human existence?
remember the founding fathers that had those degrees. agreed with jefferson, franklin.. of the 56 signers only 29 had these.. but they agreed that religion sholdnt have control in government.. but of course in true hypocrate fashion. he omits that.. but these guys are so arrogant they change the bible when it suits. and they intend to do the same with the constitution..
@scorand Not totally true. About half of the men received their higher education in colonial colleges or abroad; most of the others studied at home, in local schools or private academies, or with tutors. A few were almost entirely self-taught.
Of the four trained as ministers—Lyman Hall, William Hooper, Robert Treat Paine, and John Witherspoon—only the latter made it his lifetime vocation.
w w w . cr . nps . gov / history / onlin e_ books / declaration / bio . htm
@scorand And Madison. Thanks I agree with you. The more people who see through this deception the less political power he will have to influence votes.
3 - the second that of master of arts (M. A. or A. M.). The degree of bachelor (of arts, science, divinity, law, etc.) is conferred upon those who complete a prescribed course of undergraduate study.
2 - The first degree is that of Bachelor of Arts; the second, that of Master of Arts. Honorary degrees are those of Doctor of Divinity, Doctor of Laws, &c. Physicians also receive the degree of Doctor of Medicine.
* In the United States diplomas are usually given as the evidence of a degree conferred. In the humanities the first degree is that of bachelor of arts (B. A. or A. B.);
9. In colleges and universities, a mark of distinction conferred on students, as a testimony of their proficiency in arts and sciences; giving them a kind of rank, and entitling them to certain privileges. This is usually evidenced by a diploma. Degrees are conferred pro meritis on the alumni of a college; or they are honorary tokens of respect, conferred on strangers of distinguished reputation.
There was no trickery or spin on behalf of the lady. She only counter Barton's fals claim that seminary=minister back then, when it obviously had an definition with no affiliation.
@jfsfrnd youre welcome.. I just finished reading your exchange with this USAsoldier. I think you are wasting your time. I can tell by the deterioration of his commentary that he has nothing valid to say, he has resorted to so many argument fallacies (in particularly ad hominem) that its obvious that he is out of his league in this discussion. It actually getting quite embarrassing how one sided this has become. Good job!
..I live near & attended a Universty founded by the exiled American Loyalists, Bishop`s University, at the outset, an Anglican, Church Of England institution that most certainly granted Divinity degrees, as part of an overall Liberal Arts educational program, but it never churned out a preponderance of Ministers in the classic literal sense, preaching to each other?? as this Southern Bible thumper seems to claim!! LOL..funny if it wasnt so silly..Total convolution of facts!!
Most of the .the Loyalists, like the Founding Fathers & Patriots, all came from a mainly Anglican background, the Colleges of Colonial America granting degrees were for the most part, Church of England founded & based institutions, the very content & requirements of British American education in the 1700s!!..All these Ministers would have most certainly been rebelling, LOUDLY?? against their established religion as well??..Ludicrous distortions that border on sheer folly!..
..The stilted nonsense this Barton fellow advances is incredible!..On the Beck program, He explains, correctly, that in a civil conflict like the American Revolution, 1/3 of the people were Rebels, roughly 1/3 were neutral & another 1/3, the Loyalists who opposed the Revolution, keeping their allegience with, Great Britain. He then waves off & dismisses this entire 1/3 as irrelevant!!..Who were the Loyalists??..Progressive Liberals?? Enlightened Atheists?..Totally absurd!!
university comes from the desire to find "unity" out of "diversity". The science that held them all together was Theology. Looking at Law through the Eyes of Theology is EXACTLY what David barton is proving the Founders did. I dont know how studying Law at a Christian university and admitting that is somehow going to prove that America wasnt founded on Christian Principles that came from Christian Law. Right now we dont have "uni versity" we have "plura versity" Think about that.
Yale was founded by Christians, and its motto is "Lux et veritas" or "Light and Truth" clearly Christian verbage. It was also involved in the Great Awakening and had ministers often....see wickapedia...even liberals cant get rid of those basics....I challenge you to also look up Harvard Princeton and others......you Will find Jesus looking back at you through the lattice. Everyone wants to call barton a Liar, but they cant come up with any thing that sticks....or any FULL quotes to back them up
A place of education; any school, academy, college or univerlity, in which young persons are instructed in the several branches of learning which may qualify them for future employments.
This woman spins on her definitions -- there was much more Christian content & requirements in British American education during the 18th century than any time since....Barton is generally correct.
From: Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, June 16, 1817
And you remember to have heard, that, when the act for religious freedom was before the Virginia Assembly, a motion to insert the name of Jesus Christ before the phrase, 'the author of our holy religion,' which stood in the bill, was rejected, although that was the creed of a great majority of them.
''Christian content and requirements'' doesn't = a Christian Nation
2 - from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure
@USAsoldier1955 Do you just come to youtube to laugh at people or do you know how to have a real conversation with someone. I referenced where my quotes came from.
Except when he quote mines, uses the fallacy of omission, and other tricks to prove his points. Why can't he just be honest? Oh, yeah then he couldn't prove this is a ''Christian Nation''.
@jfsfrnd The ratification of the US Constitution, "in the Year of Our Lord", is an official affirmation of the Christian Faith. In contrast, the French Revolution & Republic specifically rejected such Christian Chronology & affirmations of Christ in the 1790s.
@USAsoldier1955 ''year of our lord'' = ''anno domini'' = a.d. It is a dating system used by the Gregorian calendar. So was that an official affirmation of the Catholic faith? I don't know anything about what France wrote in their documents and it is irrevelant to this argument.
@jfsfrnd That's exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind for our Christian Republic, that no one Christian sect dominate over any other ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.
@USAsoldier1955 The Constitution does not state that this is a Christian Republic. So you are saying that one Christian sect can dominate over another on the state level? Where is your evidence?
@jfsfrnd The Christian ratification formula of the US Constitution is proof that the USA is a Christian Republic. Moreover, state establishments of the Congregational Church denomination continued until the second decade of the 19th century -- when states voluntarily disestablished denominational connections. Moreover, only Christian chaplains were approved for Congress, the Supreme Court, the Presidency,& state legislatures. Moreover, only Christian literature was printed by the GPO (Bibles).
@USAsoldier1955 it is not an official affermation, it was the speech of the time. and that was covered at the time with the written statement that no law shall be made with respect to religion.. if your gonna use the constitution as evidence try not to twist it like they do with the bible.. the constitution prohibits any religion being government enforced.. it may be reconized but not sanctioned. save the southern baptist/evangelical dribble for those who know nothing and want to stay that way
He is implying (if not actually stating flat out - I can't be bothered watching again) that the founding fathers were Christian ministers, or trained as ministers because they went to seminary school.
This video shows that is wrong - and shows Barton's twisting of facts. You say that schools were more religious then - that proves nothing - in fact it is completely irrelevant.
She quotes Webster's proving that the fact they went to a seminary has no relevance.
Read her comment at the top of the comments -
"It's easy enough to look up the biographies of the signers and see what their college degrees were in. You'll find that almost all studied either law, business, or medicine. Of the four who did study theology, only one, John Witherspoon, was a minister."
Pretty cut and dried, mate. Your Barton bozo is misleading you.
Please research the meaning of "anus" before defecating out of your mouth in reply to my learned posts, and do use toilet paper on your two slimy buck teeth....or perhaps you were too busy rioting & looting your neighbors to remember! Religious Atheistic punks like you are a dime a dozen. Since reason eludes you -- ad hominem....or in your case, hot hominy grits -- is all that remains.
BTW - Atheism (Godless Religion) is hardly OXYMORONIC! :D
@USAsoldier1955 ''Religious Atheistic punks like you are a dime a dozen''
Who said anything about what religion we are except you? So people who can read, reason and see through Barton's trickery are ''Religious Atheist punks''?
''Learned posts'' typically contain some type of evidence - a citation, a source where the information can be found. You still haven't given any evidence for your post below. That is hardly ''learned.''
@USAsoldier1955 You made those statements. The burden of proof is on you to cite where you got the information from, not me to run around trying to find it.
@USAsoldier1955 So why does your ''friend'' Barton have proof on his website? Isn't his word that these things took place just like he said good enough?
A "B A" degree from all 18th century American colleges/seminaries = a "B D" seminary degree today
Proof? All colleges were founded to train clergy, and that was integrated into their core curriculum. This was the English collegiate tradition, e.g., if you read for Holy Orders at Oxford or Cambridge, your B A would suffice. This is reflected in the charters & constitutions of the aforementioned institutions....which you will need to read yourself! Vivere sat vincere! ;D
@USAsoldier1955 I asked you to prove that half the signers of the Declaration of Independence were ministers as Barton has stated. Your post did not offer any proof.
@USAsoldier1955 Then if I'm wasting your time then leave. It's not me doing the trolling. I'm simply asking you for evidence that what Barton is saying it true. You offerred nothing.
So you think you are commanding me to post. I post because I want to. So why aren't you out doing what Jesus said to do instead of wasting your time on youtube?
@jfsfrnd Yes, I control you....poof monkey troll....and I order you to hypocritically comment ad hominem/hot hominy grits about what Jesus is telling you to tell me to tell you! :D
@USAsoldier1955 Where is the proof that half the signers of the Declaration were trained for ministry and that their Seminary Degrees is evidence of such training.
@USAsoldier1955 You can't offer any evidence that what Barton says is true. Who cares? Lots of people who don't want Dominionism and the Seven Mountain Strategy to be part of our government.
@jfsfrnd Dream on....but you are a funny little bloke!
But do learn the nuances....I am an Orthodox Lutheran Christian. Our Eschatology is a bit more restrained, but still upholding Christian Civil Government. But I am a personal friend of Dr. Barton's since our first phone conversation in 1999.
@USAsoldier1955 SHe didnt spend anything. She read the definition of seminary from that era, She then stated "historical facts" about those members who were set to be ministers. How is that twisting facts when all she did was give you historical data?
@USAsoldier1955 Also if this nation is a Christian Republic as you have stated, why were there several attempts to create Christian amendments to the US Constitution? Why would that be necessary if this was already a Christian Republic?
I see that you've made a habit of these silly videos. Oh well, although yours are not Evolution videos, nevertheless, thoroughly dismantling Atheist delusions is why I registered on YooToob
Barton never claimed they were clergymen, but merely that they received the training for ministry. Such a thing was not unusual, considering that the universities known as the "Ivy League" were founded as theological institutions where students received a primary theological education & a secondary secular 1
Reverend Witherspoon may have been the only clergyman to sign the Declaration but he educated & mentored many of the prominent men of the founding era. Upper class Virginians attended William & Mary. However, James Madison attended New Jersey under Witherspoon, whom was the principle spiritual leader of the founders. This would account for the US Constitution having been recognized over the years by historians/experts as being written with a quill in one hand while holding the Bible in the other
I'm pleased that you mentioned that many men received a theological education & went into the field of Law. All legislation is inescapably someone's morality (pro-homosexual laws are homosexual's morality)
John Adams was a lawyer - "our Constitution was created for a religious & moral people, it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
Today, because they've brought it upon themselves, lawyers are often seen as scoundrels. However, because early America was virtually entirely
Christian, the law profession was understood to be a very noble & honorable vocation. The first US Supreme Court Justice was John Jay, a very devout Christian. The Supreme Court remained a Christian stronghold for many years... in the tradition of John Jay. Following in his fathers footsteps, John Quincy Adams was also a lawyer & President. He said that America was certainly founded a Christian country. During the 19th century & early 20th many Supreme Court Justices made the same statement
The brood of ungrateful, anti-Christian vipers that represent the infestation within America today, are as a result of the 1913 founding of the Federal Reserve & the IRS & of the UN. (the unholy trinity) The self absorbed humanists have perpetuated themselves, mostly since the cultural revolution of the 1960's
To this day, some Atheists refer to the 1950's as the "times of the prudes" because America's culture was still rooted in Christianity, as it had continued since the founding era
lies! the letter from jeferson was misintepreted by the federal court, there is no such thing as the separational of church & state, constitutionally. It wouldnt matter if all founding fathers were homosexual swingers. The courts did this!
{the letter from jeferson was misintepreted by the federal court}
You're absolutely correct. If one takes notice, one will see that whenever the predominantly secularist government refers to Constitutional law, regarding religion, they rarely speak the actual words of the 1st amendment. Instead they cite "separation". This is because the real amendment disallows specifically only Congress from having any say regarding religion. If a community wishes their children to pray in school,
the Constitution doesn't disallow school districts from determining such a thing. Thus, during the 1960's a infiltrator judge violated the Constitution by making law with "separation of church & state". This is because they apply the word "state" to anything public...such as schools. Within the Constitution, there's nothing that says schools can't pray. But it does say that Congress can't make a determination in such a matter & that no others can make law regarding any matter. Thats why the
1st amendment specifies only "Congress"... because its already understood that all others are already disallowed from making law. This leaves "we the people" free to govern themselves as was determined that the people govern at the local level. Whatever can't be done there is governed at the county, then state & the Federal Government was supposed to simply shut the hell up & do only the approx 8 duties assigned to them by the Constitution. Instead, they haven't been doing those & they've been
sticking their hands into everything else. Americans have gone asleep stupid & the judiciary has been making law for quite some time. The founders were weary of mostly the judiciary & that's why they gave that branch the least power
Andrew Jackson remains one of America's greatest heroes (sorry Natives) & he demonstrated how the founders intended the power to work. A greased Federal judge intentionally made a detrimental interpretation & Jackson said; "now let us see him try to enforce it"
He never said anything about them all being ministers. He said they had seminary degrees and were trained for ministry. He never said anything about them all being ministers. Also. Just because they studied law, medicine, or decided to do anything else as a profession, that does no mean they weren't Christian.
This guy is a complete joke. He gets introduced as a "historian", but he's not! He takes the bible and bends and twists the parables to try and say they pertain to life today. He believes the bible gives advice about taxation, regulating homosexuality, and even immigration! He gets on glen beck and and feeds people ignorant, distorted half truths he has created to support republican agendas on capitol hill. David Barton is a historian the same way creationists are scientists. Don't listen to him
ChrisRodda you exclude all the other facts. What about the writings. what about the founding of churches, and bible institutions, and supporting missionaries (through the government). If you say this isn't supporting Christianity, then you must be all right with us doing it now because it isn't saying that they support religion.
I'm enjoying this series, but you really need to put it in an order and format it somehow. A playlist and proper formatting of videos addressing Beck's insanity would get you a LOT of hits and would be much more effective.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Without footnotes I can only conclude this is typical Progressive misdirection. The same that has kept the truth from being taught the last 100 years. As a result I'll have to give you a thumbs down on this video.
@kaminleft It's easy enough to look up the biographies of the signers and see what their college degrees were in. You'll find that almost all studied either law, business, or medicine. Of the four who did study theology, only one, John Witherspoon, was a minister. Of the other three, two, who studied theology at some point in their lives, ended up choosing other careers (lawyer and merchant), and the fourth, Lyman Hall, was booted out of his church for moral indiscretions, and became a doctor.
@ChrisRodda2 Possessing a seminary degree does not make you a minister. However, you are right that most schools at the time did have religious roots. To your credit, Harvard had an engraving done on their steps that said something to the effect of "to train young men for the mission field" so just because you went to Harvard, you weren't necessarily a missionary. However, many founders spoke of their faith in Jesus Christ in their personal wills such as John Adams, Sam Adams, Benjamin Rush, etc
@davidhudman ''However, many founders spoke of their faith in Jesus Christ in their personal wills such as John Adams, Sam Adams, Benjamin Rush, etc''
Really. You do have the links to those documents right? PM them to me.
@jfsfrnd i'll keep looking for the personal wills. John Adams is pretty obvious. In his letters to Jefferson, he clearly professes belief in Jesus Christ and, from the two letters that I have read, the Trinity as well. Those letters can be found here.
nationalhumanitiescenter org pds livingrev religion text3 adamsjeffersoncor pdf
google all that
I thought it was interesting that Jefferson seemed to have reverence for Jesus but little reverence for the Bible aside from Jesus' quotes.
@davidhudman Can you post the Titles and Date of those letters from Adams? I think that all of their wills are online at google.books. So what is your point? Just because someone mentions God that doesn't equate to a belief in Jesus Christ.
"The general Principles, on which the Fathers Atchieved Independence, were the only Principles in
which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite . . . . And what were these general
Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity"
Then, Adams to Jefferson June 20, 1815 made mention of the "Holy Ghost." Jefferson's responses to those letters (Oct 12, 1813) expressed reverence for Jesus's teaching.
@davidhudman 2 - The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by His own laws, or whether priests and kings SHALL RULE IT BY FICTITIOUS MIRACLES? OR,IN OTHER WORDS, whether authority is originally in the people ? or whether IT HAS DESCENDED for 1800 years in a succession of popes and bishops, or brought down from heaven by the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove, in a phial of holy oil?
Adams said it was a DESCENTION to believe in the holy ghost.
If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, "that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it. '' But if the moral precepts,innate in man, and made a part of his physical constitution, as necessary for a social being,
Two - if the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism taught us by Jesus of Nazareth, in which all agree, constitute true religion, then, without it, this would be, as you again say, " something not fit to be named even,indeed, a hell."
Jefferson said the teachings of jesus were ''the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism''.
Who cares if they were ministers or not? The fact of the matter is that our country was founded on biblical beliefs and we as a nation have strayed away from it. People are arguing over stupid stuff and missing the big picture. God sent his son to die on the cross to save us of our sins so that we may have a chance at everlasting life in heaven. If we aren't careful our nation is going to fall into the hands of ignorant, low IQ, hell-bound people.
reddeviljhs 1 month ago
Pretty sure this woman has a personal vendetta against Barton and Beck. Both are truly Godly men who are feared by people like this lady. This woman and many other people like her fear the TRUTH
BenjaminClear1 2 months ago 2
@BenjaminClear1 Attacking her as having a "personal vendetta" against Barton and Beck doesn't qualify as refuting her argument. Of course, what more can I expect from historical revisionists who do not have a scholarly consensus to back them up.
GRasputin91 4 days ago
Another lesbian no doubt.
RepentAmerica454 4 months ago
oh and usasoldier. if it was an afermation it violates the constitution.. and besides an acknowledgment that there were a lot of christians is not an affermation that this is a christian nation..
scorand 4 months ago
Just because someone is Christian, doesn't mean they have to have in every facet of their lives. Look at the middle east (no offense to middle easterners) and how religion shapes their governments. It would be great if politicians could leave their personal lives out of politics and the founding fathers new that thus is why they worded things the way they did. This is how religion takes over, they make up stuff then say its the truth, and dumb people listen to it and its the end of the story
MB19ap 5 months ago
I know for a fact that Benjamin Franklin wasn't christian, he may not have been an atheist, but wasn't christian and he was probably the biggest reason that the constitution was ever finished and he was the ambassador for the U.S, as well as post master. He spent a good portion of his life in Europe pushing for support for the young country. He wasn't even home when his wife died. Just because it says God doesn't mean anything. How many Gods have there been during human existence?
MB19ap 5 months ago
remember the founding fathers that had those degrees. agreed with jefferson, franklin.. of the 56 signers only 29 had these.. but they agreed that religion sholdnt have control in government.. but of course in true hypocrate fashion. he omits that.. but these guys are so arrogant they change the bible when it suits. and they intend to do the same with the constitution..
scorand 5 months ago
@scorand Not totally true. About half of the men received their higher education in colonial colleges or abroad; most of the others studied at home, in local schools or private academies, or with tutors. A few were almost entirely self-taught.
Of the four trained as ministers—Lyman Hall, William Hooper, Robert Treat Paine, and John Witherspoon—only the latter made it his lifetime vocation.
w w w . cr . nps . gov / history / onlin e_ books / declaration / bio . htm
jfsfrnd 4 months ago
@jfsfrnd reguardless they still agreed with jefferson and franklin..
scorand 4 months ago
@scorand And Madison. Thanks I agree with you. The more people who see through this deception the less political power he will have to influence votes.
jfsfrnd 4 months ago
Interesting - Bartins Tour Video - 3+ million views - This video 6+ thousand views.
newmanmarc 6 months ago
3 - the second that of master of arts (M. A. or A. M.). The degree of bachelor (of arts, science, divinity, law, etc.) is conferred upon those who complete a prescribed course of undergraduate study.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
2 - The first degree is that of Bachelor of Arts; the second, that of Master of Arts. Honorary degrees are those of Doctor of Divinity, Doctor of Laws, &c. Physicians also receive the degree of Doctor of Medicine.
* In the United States diplomas are usually given as the evidence of a degree conferred. In the humanities the first degree is that of bachelor of arts (B. A. or A. B.);
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
1 - Websters 1828 Dictionary
DEGREE, n.
9. In colleges and universities, a mark of distinction conferred on students, as a testimony of their proficiency in arts and sciences; giving them a kind of rank, and entitling them to certain privileges. This is usually evidenced by a diploma. Degrees are conferred pro meritis on the alumni of a college; or they are honorary tokens of respect, conferred on strangers of distinguished reputation.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
There was no trickery or spin on behalf of the lady. She only counter Barton's fals claim that seminary=minister back then, when it obviously had an definition with no affiliation.
AAA3172 6 months ago
@AAA3172 Thanks for your posts AAA3172.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd youre welcome.. I just finished reading your exchange with this USAsoldier. I think you are wasting your time. I can tell by the deterioration of his commentary that he has nothing valid to say, he has resorted to so many argument fallacies (in particularly ad hominem) that its obvious that he is out of his league in this discussion. It actually getting quite embarrassing how one sided this has become. Good job!
AAA3172 6 months ago
@AAA3172 = ad hominy sophist talking to his own hominy grits sock puppet :D
COGITO ERGO HOMINY! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
..I live near & attended a Universty founded by the exiled American Loyalists, Bishop`s University, at the outset, an Anglican, Church Of England institution that most certainly granted Divinity degrees, as part of an overall Liberal Arts educational program, but it never churned out a preponderance of Ministers in the classic literal sense, preaching to each other?? as this Southern Bible thumper seems to claim!! LOL..funny if it wasnt so silly..Total convolution of facts!!
axxellein 6 months ago
Most of the .the Loyalists, like the Founding Fathers & Patriots, all came from a mainly Anglican background, the Colleges of Colonial America granting degrees were for the most part, Church of England founded & based institutions, the very content & requirements of British American education in the 1700s!!..All these Ministers would have most certainly been rebelling, LOUDLY?? against their established religion as well??..Ludicrous distortions that border on sheer folly!..
axxellein 6 months ago
..The stilted nonsense this Barton fellow advances is incredible!..On the Beck program, He explains, correctly, that in a civil conflict like the American Revolution, 1/3 of the people were Rebels, roughly 1/3 were neutral & another 1/3, the Loyalists who opposed the Revolution, keeping their allegience with, Great Britain. He then waves off & dismisses this entire 1/3 as irrelevant!!..Who were the Loyalists??..Progressive Liberals?? Enlightened Atheists?..Totally absurd!!
axxellein 6 months ago
university comes from the desire to find "unity" out of "diversity". The science that held them all together was Theology. Looking at Law through the Eyes of Theology is EXACTLY what David barton is proving the Founders did. I dont know how studying Law at a Christian university and admitting that is somehow going to prove that America wasnt founded on Christian Principles that came from Christian Law. Right now we dont have "uni versity" we have "plura versity" Think about that.
AnswerReADY 6 months ago
Yale was founded by Christians, and its motto is "Lux et veritas" or "Light and Truth" clearly Christian verbage. It was also involved in the Great Awakening and had ministers often....see wickapedia...even liberals cant get rid of those basics....I challenge you to also look up Harvard Princeton and others......you Will find Jesus looking back at you through the lattice. Everyone wants to call barton a Liar, but they cant come up with any thing that sticks....or any FULL quotes to back them up
AnswerReADY 6 months ago
More liberal spin!!!!!
dquay11 7 months ago
1828 Websters Dictionary
Seminary
A place of education; any school, academy, college or univerlity, in which young persons are instructed in the several branches of learning which may qualify them for future employments.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
This woman spins on her definitions -- there was much more Christian content & requirements in British American education during the 18th century than any time since....Barton is generally correct.
USAsoldier1955 7 months ago 9
@USAsoldier1955 So much for your Christian content:
From: Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, June 16, 1817
And you remember to have heard, that, when the act for religious freedom was before the Virginia Assembly, a motion to insert the name of Jesus Christ before the phrase, 'the author of our holy religion,' which stood in the bill, was rejected, although that was the creed of a great majority of them.
''Christian content and requirements'' doesn't = a Christian Nation
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd OFLOL!
Congratulations upon your straining at the stool to produce excrement....BUTT....
MERELY BREAKING WIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago 2
@USAsoldier1955 So what does that mean?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
Comment removed
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
2 - from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
1 - Autobiography - by Thomas Jefferson
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Sorry, you are not quoting on point....and please use academic referencing.
OFLOL! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago 2
@USAsoldier1955 Do you just come to youtube to laugh at people or do you know how to have a real conversation with someone. I referenced where my quotes came from.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Yes! ;D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@USAsoldier1955 ''Barton is generally correct''
Except when he quote mines, uses the fallacy of omission, and other tricks to prove his points. Why can't he just be honest? Oh, yeah then he couldn't prove this is a ''Christian Nation''.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
Comment removed
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd The ratification of the US Constitution, "in the Year of Our Lord", is an official affirmation of the Christian Faith. In contrast, the French Revolution & Republic specifically rejected such Christian Chronology & affirmations of Christ in the 1790s.
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago 5
@USAsoldier1955 ''year of our lord'' = ''anno domini'' = a.d. It is a dating system used by the Gregorian calendar. So was that an official affirmation of the Catholic faith? I don't know anything about what France wrote in their documents and it is irrevelant to this argument.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd OFLMAO! :D
"I don't know anything"....THAT'S THE TRUEST THING YOU'VE SAID YET! :D
PS - "Catholic" = "Christian"...."Papist" = "Roman Catholic"
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago 5
@USAsoldier1955 Thats not what I said. So the country is a Roman Catholic Nation.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Condolences upon your confusion & religious bias! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 This is a nation of religious freedom, not ruled by any sect.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd That's exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind for our Christian Republic, that no one Christian sect dominate over any other ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 The Constitution does not state that this is a Christian Republic. So you are saying that one Christian sect can dominate over another on the state level? Where is your evidence?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd The Christian ratification formula of the US Constitution is proof that the USA is a Christian Republic. Moreover, state establishments of the Congregational Church denomination continued until the second decade of the 19th century -- when states voluntarily disestablished denominational connections. Moreover, only Christian chaplains were approved for Congress, the Supreme Court, the Presidency,& state legislatures. Moreover, only Christian literature was printed by the GPO (Bibles).
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 So you made some statements. Where is the evidence?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd What's your point? :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd You made statements without giving the source for those statements. How do I know you didn't just make them up?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 it is not an official affermation, it was the speech of the time. and that was covered at the time with the written statement that no law shall be made with respect to religion.. if your gonna use the constitution as evidence try not to twist it like they do with the bible.. the constitution prohibits any religion being government enforced.. it may be reconized but not sanctioned. save the southern baptist/evangelical dribble for those who know nothing and want to stay that way
scorand 5 months ago
@scorand = Southern Baptist/Evangelical Dribble Know Nothing Twisted On Drugs
OFLOL! :D
USAsoldier1955 5 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 lol too funny..
scorand 5 months ago
@scorand LMAO!!!!! :D
USAsoldier1955 5 months ago
@USAsoldier1955
So there was more Christian content in schools inthe 18th century?
So what?
revjimbob 6 months ago
@revjimbob So Barton is generally correct.
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955
He is implying (if not actually stating flat out - I can't be bothered watching again) that the founding fathers were Christian ministers, or trained as ministers because they went to seminary school.
This video shows that is wrong - and shows Barton's twisting of facts. You say that schools were more religious then - that proves nothing - in fact it is completely irrelevant.
revjimbob 6 months ago
@revjimbob "The video shows that is wrong"?
Where's the evidence? No proof is offered from her spin.
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955
"Where's the evidence?"
She quotes Webster's proving that the fact they went to a seminary has no relevance.
Read her comment at the top of the comments -
"It's easy enough to look up the biographies of the signers and see what their college degrees were in. You'll find that almost all studied either law, business, or medicine. Of the four who did study theology, only one, John Witherspoon, was a minister."
Pretty cut and dried, mate. Your Barton bozo is misleading you.
revjimbob 6 months ago
@revjimbob Your "Pretty cut and dried" is actually an ugly bimbo dyke....misleading you with sophist dainties! :D
But thanks for proving my point that you religious Atheists always resort to ad hominem sophistry to express your emotional reaction! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955
Check the meaning of terms like Ad Hominem before using them (incorrectly) instead of responding to my points.
Here's another word for the day to increase your word-power - OXYMORON - it means using two conflicting words together, like 'religious Atheists'.
revjimbob 6 months ago
@revjimbob Or ''Orthodox Lutheran Christian Pastors'' who go to social networking sites to verbally attack other posters? Check out his channel.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd
According to his channel he is an (takes deep breath) Orthodox Evangelical Reformed Protestant Catholic Lutheran Christian.
Try fitting that on a name badge.
revjimbob 6 months ago
@revjimbob Oh Yea! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd
P.S. - he is a touchy bastard, isn't he?
revjimbob 6 months ago
@revjimbob Settle down, touchy Atheistic bastard punk/s, you & your sock puppets! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@revjimbob OFLOL! :D
Did I rattle your cage?
Please research the meaning of "anus" before defecating out of your mouth in reply to my learned posts, and do use toilet paper on your two slimy buck teeth....or perhaps you were too busy rioting & looting your neighbors to remember! Religious Atheistic punks like you are a dime a dozen. Since reason eludes you -- ad hominem....or in your case, hot hominy grits -- is all that remains.
BTW - Atheism (Godless Religion) is hardly OXYMORONIC! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955
Settle down, reverend.
revjimbob 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''Did I rattle your cage?''
You really need to improve your act.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''Religious Atheistic punks like you are a dime a dozen''
Who said anything about what religion we are except you? So people who can read, reason and see through Barton's trickery are ''Religious Atheist punks''?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''my learned posts''
''Learned posts'' typically contain some type of evidence - a citation, a source where the information can be found. You still haven't given any evidence for your post below. That is hardly ''learned.''
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Prove It! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 You made those statements. The burden of proof is on you to cite where you got the information from, not me to run around trying to find it.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Sorry, other way round! ;D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 So why does your ''friend'' Barton have proof on his website? Isn't his word that these things took place just like he said good enough?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Is reason & 18th century rationalism the ultimate objective -- or merely imperfect subordinates of Christian Faith?
"Proof" references to Faith and/or Reason...."Food" references Meat & Potatoes and/or Mounds Bars & Cheesecake! ;D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''Proof'' references to posting where you got the information you cited below. ''Food'' is chocolate. Klondike bars work.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd OK! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Why don't you begin by proving that half the signers of the Declaration of Independence were ministers?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd OFLOL! :D
A "B A" degree from all 18th century American colleges/seminaries = a "B D" seminary degree today
Proof? All colleges were founded to train clergy, and that was integrated into their core curriculum. This was the English collegiate tradition, e.g., if you read for Holy Orders at Oxford or Cambridge, your B A would suffice. This is reflected in the charters & constitutions of the aforementioned institutions....which you will need to read yourself! Vivere sat vincere! ;D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''which you will need to read yourself!''
Citation?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 I asked you to prove that half the signers of the Declaration of Independence were ministers as Barton has stated. Your post did not offer any proof.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Barton NEVER states that 29 Signers of the Declaration of Independence were "ministers", but had Divinity training! :D
You continue to refer to & to demand nonsequeters....like the fat, ugly Lesbian bigot in the video....why?
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Barton said ''most of the signers of the Declaration were trained for ministry''.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Same Thing....WAKE UP! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Same thing? Yeah he said they were trained to be ministers which is false.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd You have offered no proof of your existence....only poof :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Proof of my existence has nothing to do with this conversation. He said they were trained for ministry. Where is the proof?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd = where is the poof
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Barton said ''seminary degrees'' = ''trained for ministry'' = false.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Why aren't you out feeding the poor instead of trashing youtube posters and the videos they watch.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Why don't you practice what you preach....instead of wasting my time & yours on hypocritical trolling?
YOU ARE TOTALLY FAKE! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Then if I'm wasting your time then leave. It's not me doing the trolling. I'm simply asking you for evidence that what Barton is saying it true. You offerred nothing.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd = Poof Monkey
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''Poof Monkey''
So you think you are commanding me to post. I post because I want to. So why aren't you out doing what Jesus said to do instead of wasting your time on youtube?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Yes, I control you....poof monkey troll....and I order you to hypocritically comment ad hominem/hot hominy grits about what Jesus is telling you to tell me to tell you! :D
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Uh huh.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Barton Wins....Amen! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Barton wins what? Surely not his argument.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Sorry, other way round....you have no proof....or poof! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Why aren't you tending to flock?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Luke 15: 1-7, KJV
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd I don't see where Jesus told you to go to Youtube to look for your lost sheep.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Where is the proof that half the signers of the Declaration were trained for ministry and that their Seminary Degrees is evidence of such training.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Sorry....you are talking in circles & using tautologies....rather pathetically....no one cares about what you want or what you think....
I'm simply amusing myself with you, and I command you to reply to my posts....
Dance, Monkey....Dance! :D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 You can't offer any evidence that what Barton says is true. Who cares? Lots of people who don't want Dominionism and the Seven Mountain Strategy to be part of our government.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''Christian American Revolution''
So you're a Dominionist? Do you believe in the Seven Mountain Strategy? You're hero Barton just signed up with them.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Dream on....but you are a funny little bloke!
But do learn the nuances....I am an Orthodox Lutheran Christian. Our Eschatology is a bit more restrained, but still upholding Christian Civil Government. But I am a personal friend of Dr. Barton's since our first phone conversation in 1999.
In Christ's Love,
+ Fr. Philip :)
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''I am a personal friend of Dr. Barton's''
I'm so glad that Bartons ''friends'' are mature responsible people who have respect for others. NOT!
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd = cute
:D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 ''still upholding Christian Civil Government''
Uh huh. Good luck with that.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Thanks! ;D
USAsoldier1955 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 Where's your evidence that I asked for below? Where is Barton's evidence?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@USAsoldier1955 SHe didnt spend anything. She read the definition of seminary from that era, She then stated "historical facts" about those members who were set to be ministers. How is that twisting facts when all she did was give you historical data?
AAA3172 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@USAsoldier1955 Also if this nation is a Christian Republic as you have stated, why were there several attempts to create Christian amendments to the US Constitution? Why would that be necessary if this was already a Christian Republic?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
Comment removed
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
I see that you've made a habit of these silly videos. Oh well, although yours are not Evolution videos, nevertheless, thoroughly dismantling Atheist delusions is why I registered on YooToob
Barton never claimed they were clergymen, but merely that they received the training for ministry. Such a thing was not unusual, considering that the universities known as the "Ivy League" were founded as theological institutions where students received a primary theological education & a secondary secular 1
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
Reverend Witherspoon may have been the only clergyman to sign the Declaration but he educated & mentored many of the prominent men of the founding era. Upper class Virginians attended William & Mary. However, James Madison attended New Jersey under Witherspoon, whom was the principle spiritual leader of the founders. This would account for the US Constitution having been recognized over the years by historians/experts as being written with a quill in one hand while holding the Bible in the other
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
I'm pleased that you mentioned that many men received a theological education & went into the field of Law. All legislation is inescapably someone's morality (pro-homosexual laws are homosexual's morality)
John Adams was a lawyer - "our Constitution was created for a religious & moral people, it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
Today, because they've brought it upon themselves, lawyers are often seen as scoundrels. However, because early America was virtually entirely
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
Christian, the law profession was understood to be a very noble & honorable vocation. The first US Supreme Court Justice was John Jay, a very devout Christian. The Supreme Court remained a Christian stronghold for many years... in the tradition of John Jay. Following in his fathers footsteps, John Quincy Adams was also a lawyer & President. He said that America was certainly founded a Christian country. During the 19th century & early 20th many Supreme Court Justices made the same statement
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
The brood of ungrateful, anti-Christian vipers that represent the infestation within America today, are as a result of the 1913 founding of the Federal Reserve & the IRS & of the UN. (the unholy trinity) The self absorbed humanists have perpetuated themselves, mostly since the cultural revolution of the 1960's
To this day, some Atheists refer to the 1950's as the "times of the prudes" because America's culture was still rooted in Christianity, as it had continued since the founding era
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
lies! the letter from jeferson was misintepreted by the federal court, there is no such thing as the separational of church & state, constitutionally. It wouldnt matter if all founding fathers were homosexual swingers. The courts did this!
fotizome 9 months ago
@fotizome
{the letter from jeferson was misintepreted by the federal court}
You're absolutely correct. If one takes notice, one will see that whenever the predominantly secularist government refers to Constitutional law, regarding religion, they rarely speak the actual words of the 1st amendment. Instead they cite "separation". This is because the real amendment disallows specifically only Congress from having any say regarding religion. If a community wishes their children to pray in school,
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
the Constitution doesn't disallow school districts from determining such a thing. Thus, during the 1960's a infiltrator judge violated the Constitution by making law with "separation of church & state". This is because they apply the word "state" to anything public...such as schools. Within the Constitution, there's nothing that says schools can't pray. But it does say that Congress can't make a determination in such a matter & that no others can make law regarding any matter. Thats why the
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
1st amendment specifies only "Congress"... because its already understood that all others are already disallowed from making law. This leaves "we the people" free to govern themselves as was determined that the people govern at the local level. Whatever can't be done there is governed at the county, then state & the Federal Government was supposed to simply shut the hell up & do only the approx 8 duties assigned to them by the Constitution. Instead, they haven't been doing those & they've been
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
sticking their hands into everything else. Americans have gone asleep stupid & the judiciary has been making law for quite some time. The founders were weary of mostly the judiciary & that's why they gave that branch the least power
Andrew Jackson remains one of America's greatest heroes (sorry Natives) & he demonstrated how the founders intended the power to work. A greased Federal judge intentionally made a detrimental interpretation & Jackson said; "now let us see him try to enforce it"
Chuichupachichi 9 months ago
He never said anything about them all being ministers. He said they had seminary degrees and were trained for ministry. He never said anything about them all being ministers. Also. Just because they studied law, medicine, or decided to do anything else as a profession, that does no mean they weren't Christian.
JoshFazzz 10 months ago
This guy is a complete joke. He gets introduced as a "historian", but he's not! He takes the bible and bends and twists the parables to try and say they pertain to life today. He believes the bible gives advice about taxation, regulating homosexuality, and even immigration! He gets on glen beck and and feeds people ignorant, distorted half truths he has created to support republican agendas on capitol hill. David Barton is a historian the same way creationists are scientists. Don't listen to him
631Miami 10 months ago 3
@631Miami Well, he admits he's a creationist too! So you've got the worst of both worlds wrapped up into one!
viridismonasteriense 9 months ago
ChrisRodda you exclude all the other facts. What about the writings. what about the founding of churches, and bible institutions, and supporting missionaries (through the government). If you say this isn't supporting Christianity, then you must be all right with us doing it now because it isn't saying that they support religion.
heyzolkowski1 11 months ago
@heyzolkowski1 She has a whole series of videos (and a book) that should answer your uninformed accusations.
sirpengalot 9 months ago
saw the comment from @kaminleft.....being .too lazy to do your own research results in being misled by people like barton.
Mutedvox 1 year ago
I'm enjoying this series, but you really need to put it in an order and format it somehow. A playlist and proper formatting of videos addressing Beck's insanity would get you a LOT of hits and would be much more effective.
FairCogent 1 year ago
@GrayGhost8 Barton's creepy, but Rodda isn't?!?
troyeckhardt 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Without footnotes I can only conclude this is typical Progressive misdirection. The same that has kept the truth from being taught the last 100 years. As a result I'll have to give you a thumbs down on this video.
kaminleft 1 year ago
@kaminleft It's easy enough to look up the biographies of the signers and see what their college degrees were in. You'll find that almost all studied either law, business, or medicine. Of the four who did study theology, only one, John Witherspoon, was a minister. Of the other three, two, who studied theology at some point in their lives, ended up choosing other careers (lawyer and merchant), and the fourth, Lyman Hall, was booted out of his church for moral indiscretions, and became a doctor.
ChrisRodda2 1 year ago 13
@ChrisRodda2 Possessing a seminary degree does not make you a minister. However, you are right that most schools at the time did have religious roots. To your credit, Harvard had an engraving done on their steps that said something to the effect of "to train young men for the mission field" so just because you went to Harvard, you weren't necessarily a missionary. However, many founders spoke of their faith in Jesus Christ in their personal wills such as John Adams, Sam Adams, Benjamin Rush, etc
davidhudman 7 months ago
@davidhudman ''However, many founders spoke of their faith in Jesus Christ in their personal wills such as John Adams, Sam Adams, Benjamin Rush, etc''
Really. You do have the links to those documents right? PM them to me.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd i'll keep looking for the personal wills. John Adams is pretty obvious. In his letters to Jefferson, he clearly professes belief in Jesus Christ and, from the two letters that I have read, the Trinity as well. Those letters can be found here.
nationalhumanitiescenter org pds livingrev religion text3 adamsjeffersoncor pdf
google all that
I thought it was interesting that Jefferson seemed to have reverence for Jesus but little reverence for the Bible aside from Jesus' quotes.
davidhudman 6 months ago
@davidhudman Can you post the Titles and Date of those letters from Adams? I think that all of their wills are online at google.books. So what is your point? Just because someone mentions God that doesn't equate to a belief in Jesus Christ.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd Adams to Jefferson June 28, 1813:
"The general Principles, on which the Fathers Atchieved Independence, were the only Principles in
which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite . . . . And what were these general
Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity"
Then, Adams to Jefferson June 20, 1815 made mention of the "Holy Ghost." Jefferson's responses to those letters (Oct 12, 1813) expressed reverence for Jesus's teaching.
davidhudman 6 months ago
@davidhudman 1 - I don't see any profession of belief in Jesus Christ in that statement. Could you point it out please?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@davidhudman 2 - The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by His own laws, or whether priests and kings SHALL RULE IT BY FICTITIOUS MIRACLES? OR,IN OTHER WORDS, whether authority is originally in the people ? or whether IT HAS DESCENDED for 1800 years in a succession of popes and bishops, or brought down from heaven by the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove, in a phial of holy oil?
Adams said it was a DESCENTION to believe in the holy ghost.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@davidhudman 3 - ''There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man''
Yeah the pure teachings of Jesus, not todays Christianity. It also does not equate to a faith in Jesus Christ.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@davidhudman
One - TO JOHN ADAMS - MONTICELLO, May 5, 1817
If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, "that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it. '' But if the moral precepts,innate in man, and made a part of his physical constitution, as necessary for a social being,
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@davidhudman
Two - if the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism taught us by Jesus of Nazareth, in which all agree, constitute true religion, then, without it, this would be, as you again say, " something not fit to be named even,indeed, a hell."
Jefferson said the teachings of jesus were ''the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism''.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
@jfsfrnd my previous post... there should be . before org and pdf. the other spaces should be slashes and that is the URL
davidhudman 6 months ago
@davidhudman Could you show me those wills where the founders spoke of their faith in Jesus Christ?
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
Barton is creepy. The guy just oozes "kid toucher".
GrayGhost8 1 year ago
Good stuff, Chris! So a moral indiscretion got him booted out of the ministry... can't wait to hear that one!
GodDiscussion 1 year ago