ean imaste emis slaviani tote esis den iste ortodoxi kai den exete teos.se oles tis ikones grafi slavianika.giati tote kanete stavro se slavianikes ikones
Hopefully someone on here can help me out. I'm fairly new with biblical greek and I still get confused when the endings of words change. I was wanting to translate the phrase "Jesus Christ is King" into greek. If I use google translate, I know its wrong because it translates every word individually not as a sentence. It gives me, Ο Ιησούς Χριστός είναι Βασιλιάς. But I know that in Greek that the phrase "Jesus Christ" is written as, "Ιησοῦ χριστῶ." Can anyone properly translate that for me?
latinosoul86. hey Brother, we are all after the same thing: getting good results .(Ephesians 4:12ff.) Your immersion approach works when students are motivated and appreciate the relevance of what they are doing. My approach combines the two. I got great results as a teacher/trainer/coach. Be appreciative there are Bible teachers that trying the right thing. I look forward seeing you inaction. God Bless You. scottybroker1
captin0mega - My friend, forgive me for not getting back to you in a more timely sense. I would suggest these works: The book of John (New Testament) using the easy to read Bible versions. I recommend New American Standard Bible, get it at Public Library. Also works that explain reasonable case for believing in Christ: Lee Strobe, Case for Christ and McDowell's Evidence That Demand a Verdict. start there and lets correspond again. God Bless scottybroker1@msn.com
captin0mega - My friend, forgive me for not getting back to you in a more timely sense. I would suggest these works: The book of John (New Testament) using the easy to read Bible versions. I recommend New American Standard, get it at Public Library. Also works the expplain reasonalbe case for believing in Christ: Lee Strobe, Case for Christ and McDowell's Evidence That Demand a Verdict. start there and lets correspond again scottybroker1@msn.com
yo, please explain the value of pagan mythology. I moved from studying the occultism and mysticism (Buddhist, Egyptian, et al) then studied Blavatsky, Mathers and even Crowley. When I began to study NT Christianity (not denominational christianity) my eyes were opened. Christ is truly the answr. I have a M. Behavioral Science:familiar with all of the schls of Psy, Soc,Psychtherpy. The best offered comes from scripture. Most of tse theorists thghts come frm Bible. I Cor 1:30
@scottybroker What subject should I begin to study if I want to believe that Christ is really the answer. Basically, what should I start studying first.
@captin0mega Study the book of Acts. It shows examples of many people who were searching and tells specifically what they asked, were given as answers, and their response to those answers. Don't take people's word for what to do, you won't see a 'sinner's prayer' ever said by one of them, question what people say by reading the things people did in Acts... They should be the ones we imitate, not people in the big crystal palaces they call churches.
@YAHWEHisperfect There is absolutely no evidence that the NT was 1st written in Hebrew, none at all. That's not to say that all speech it records was originally Greek. There is evidence that parables were likely spoken in Hebrew. Also Hebrews generally spoke Hebrew [Aramaic was previously believed to be the spoken language of the Hebrews at the time but it has since been shown that Hebrew was their spoken language. E.g., Josephus records this.] So lots of dialog was Hebrew, recorded in Greek.
it could not be greek. Joshua came to the jew first..and hebrew words as they were written in ancient hebrew, which is a picture language, can not be translated...
often the english translation , when it says lord, it takes it from hebrew word "yotam" ..and that is , arm, nail, cross, water..
ancient hebrew is very deep, where letter, roots and the whole word form all together a meaning..and unlike many languages, like greek or english, hebrew is a concrete language.
@YAHWEHisperfect You are committing one of the most common fallacies of the Hebrew student, the etymological fallacy. Some call it one of the "first-year lies." That is to say, as Randall Buth explains, "the verbs in a binyan are to be learned as individual verbs and not 'produced out of roots'. The latter would be none other than the etymological fallacy."
@YAHWEHisperfect Now, if any language is a "picture language" it is not a spoken language but a signed one. I am a nationally certified ASL Interpreter and am well aware of the series of processes in interpretation and what they involve, esp. how a message expressed in a "picture language" [visuospatial conveyance] transmits into a spoken language [linear conveyance] and vice versa. BH isn't some mysterious untranslatable language. Languages convey meaning, and that meaning can be conveyed.
there r a lots of evidences that it was. take time to study ancient hebrew. u can not translate it because ancient hebrew is a picture language.
Joshua did not speak greek/english. and most of those who wrote the nt were hebrew.
even the style of written points that it must it been hebrew.
take time to go over it. when Yoshua said that He is beginning and end, He was saying that He is aleph and tav.aleph looks like the head of the bull and tov like a cross
@YAHWEHisperfect You don't know that he said he is א and ת. What we have is 'το αλφα και το ω'. If he had wanted to indicate Hebrew letters he could easily have written e.g., αλεφ & ταυ. I have thought about it, and I don't see the relevance in him saying he's a bull head and a cross (which were NOT even written like that anyway for Hebrew at the time). I don't see why the meaning behind it couldn't be א and ת, but even if that could be demonstrated it doesn't follow that they were written.
He must to...because prior to His coming, everything was written in hebrew...and those letters r pictures...u can c "head of the ox, cross"(aleph, tav) all over the scripture...and it reveals who He is....
@YAHWEHisperfect Hmm, I wonder why את may appear a good bit throughout the Old Covenant scriptures, perhaps because it is a direct object marker and an integral feature of the language itself—and we see the language being used throughout the places where it is being used...so we see the features of the language frequently.
the ancient hebrew word for a symbol, sigh...such as moses told them to put it on the doorsteps, is ....the head of ox, nail, cross....
try to translate it into english...
also, u can tell in hebrew/english translation, how often many different hebrew words r translated as one english word...many mistranslations....how could Yoshua say that He is coming in fullness that it was written of Him and later hav it recorded in other then hebrew language?
@YAHWEHisperfect Jesus would have spoken Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, all 3. (I don't know where you are thinking English comes in here.) So, are you saying letters like 1 & 2 Corinthians written to a largely Gentile church were actually written in Hebrew? I'd like to see proof. :) Of course Paul being a former Pharisee and w/ Heb as his native language writes in a Heb argumentative style, but he also borrows from Greek style somewhat similar to Epictetus, which I wonder if you were even aware.
hebrew is a picture language ...how can u translate that....?in english u say sigh...but in ancient hebrew it is "ox head, nail, cross"...and that is what moses told them to put on the doorsteps....
@xxpowwowbluexx i don't know if He did...but the scriptures, everything that was recorded was in hebrew....regardless if it was spoken in hebrew or some other language...why would it change now?
soon, u might be saying that Joshua was dress like plato, ate pork and had wild parties on sabbath...
@YAHWEHisperfect I'm sorry, I can't help you if you are unwilling to be open to any new information, and by 'new' I am not intimating that it was recently discovered. Ridicule and dismissal of evidence in favor of an absence of evidence to support a claim is not a mark of sound reasoning.
which of the prophets said that the Messiah will speak in other then hebrew languages...which of the prophets said that the Word of Yahweh will be written in greek?
@YAHWEHisperfect First of all, you are not dealing with any of the data I have presented which is completely against your assertions. And second, which of the prophets said the message would only be revealed in Hebrew? Don't you forget that the Old Covenant scriptures contain Aramaic sections, even? [Dan 2:4 thru ch 7, et al.] And if you are really wanting to find a prophet that speaks to revelations from God in other languages how about Isaiah (28:9-13)? See also Acts 2:4-16 and 1 Cor 14:20-22.
@YAHWEHisperfect And don't forget the Messiah himself spoke in Greek. [Of course he did not speak ONLY in Greek, but Greek was one of the languages he spoke in addition to Hebrew]. John 4:10-15 is one indication of this fact. The Samaritan woman misunderstood his terminology: his 'living water' [ὕδωρ ζῶν] was misunderstood as meaning running water, as per the common Greek idiom, when Jesus was really speaking of the Spirit.
i don't know if He did...what language did moses speak to pharaoh? danial to nebuchadnezzar? but all was recorded in hebrew...which of the prophets said that there will be change of the recording language? because that would be an important announcement to make?
in english translation ,looks like five different words r translated as 'truth".
when Yoshua said 'truth" which word did he used?
greek is an abstract language.. ancient hebrew is a concrete language...
@YAHWEHisperfect No, these indicate that they were not written in Hebrew; if they had been there would be no need to clarify terminology by translation. They are Hebrew words that the Greek writers used, transliterated into Greek and then explained. A Hebrew text would have no need of this.
If Hebrew is so untranslatable, don't read your Old Testament in any other language besides Hebrew [& don't forget Aramaic, it might get lonely ;) ].
I know your thinking changes when using diff languages.
i do try to read more in hebrew and less in english...hopefully, one day ancient hebrew will become my every day language..... how many diiferent hebrew words were translated as english word "haste"
or "first" or "donkey"..when Yoshua spoke these words, which one did He use?
what is the meaning of the tenth letter in greek alphabet..in ancient hebrew is "open arm" that pronounces as yud
but in greek, it's just a sound..and isis and zues sounds very similar to "iesous"
@YAHWEHisperfect If it is untranslatable then you don't know what it means either. All languages are translatable, just some ideas take more work than others. The origin of a letter doesn't continue as the meaning. Greek also has a distinctive value for every letter [numeric]. That is not the case outside of those two languages [unless a very obscure language also does].
@YAHWEHisperfect The record of the teachings of Jesus shows that he used Greek, for the quotations of the OT match the LXX not the masoretic in many cases. There are obvious different words that are options for translation [both ways] & the use is not necessarily a mistranslation. Jesus in Hebrew sounds like Jacob in Arabic: homonyms of different languages don't invalidate a language for recording history. The concepts of grace are not easily recorded in Hebrew; but are Greek - hence fullness.
@YAHWEHisperfect "Joshua did not speak greek/english." Of course he didn't speak English at the time. But he definitely spoke Greek. If you were more familiar with the texts (and the languages) you would recognize this. In John 4 he speaks to a Samaritan woman. The dialogue takes place in Greek as is evident from the woman's misunderstanding of his use of the term "living water." She thought he meant flowing spring water, as per the common Greek idiom. But Jesus was speaking of the Spirit.
it is an englisg translation of the greek translation that u refer to....
and if u r correct, then danial was speaking percian in the scriptures and so on and so forth....
besides, it was only her and Joshua there.....but the Spirit of Yahweh was the one that inspire the Word...ancient hebrew is a picture language where every letter has a meaning....how can u translate that into another language?
@TOUCHMYHEARTable I think you mean βαπτίζω, not baptizMo. But a problem is that βαπτίζω doesn't mean 'to baptize, wash, dip'. It means 'I baptize, wash, dip'. Βαπτίσαι is the aorist infinitive I think you are looking for. That is one of the problems with having the first person present tense as a lemma for verbs. The language doesn't necessarily reflect this type of structure, not to mention it can be confusing. See "Verbs Perception and Aspect: Greek Lexicography and Grammar" by Randall Buth.
The greatest challenge to learning a new language, especially ancient languages, is the revelation of how poorly we understand the proper and technical use of the grammar of our own native language.
If I ever write a Greek text, I'm starting verbs with the aorist...most text start with present active indicative because it's easiest, but I say start verbs with the one that appears most often in the Bible...
@flizzleFlopper ἀμήν. Starting with the present active indicative is a sure way to hinder fluency. Dr. Randall Buth has written an excellent article on this very subject called "Verbs, Perception and Aspect, Greek Lexicography and Grammar: Helping Students to Think in Greek." It appears in the work _Biblical Greek Language and Lexicography, Essays in Honor of Frederick W. Danker_. You should check it out if you haven't already. It is well worth the read.
@flizzleFlopper The reason words are demonstrated in the present active indicative is because that is the root formation of the verb in question. Once you know the root form, in most cases, especially in the -mi conjugation forms, you will be able to easily make the transition to the appropriate voice, mood and tense of the word.
A man, I like your stile. I have been a student into the Greek for a small time now and already I spot bad doctrine afar off. I tell you what I want to learn this Dialect, so I can Logie, hee hee.
WTF?His pronunciation totally s u c k s !And I can tell so because I'm greek myself........This is a too americanized way to pronunce,which actually makes native greek speakers laugh out loud......
@koadaki17 The reason his pronunciation is off is because he is not using modern Greek pronunciation but what was believed to be the Greek pronunciation during the time the New Testament was written. However, no one really knows what those sounds were now.
@inluuvwjesus Actually this is not at all the way Greek sounded in NT times. We have ample information to allow us to know that the Roman period Koiné (say 63 BC to AD 325) had these seven vowel phonemes and graphic equivalencies. Ι = ΕΙ Η Ε = ΑΙ Α Ω = Ο ΟΥ Υ = ΟΙ That's not all... biblicalulpan [DOT] org/pages/Common/Greek%20Pronunciation%20%282008%29.pdf Listen to a reading of 1 John 1 biblicalulpan [DOT] org/Sound_files/1John1.MP3
I am devising a way of teaching it that introduces the alphabet first and then have the text read together with the pictures and audio. i guess this is more helpful for students who are already literate, and are accustomed to learning the way we learned our ABCs -- a picture of an apple under letter A with the text of the letter and the word apple read aloud.
So I also tried learning Buth's translation and book for my Gk NT review but I find it hard to 'unlearn' the previously taught pronunciation... especially that the methodology takes the form of learning like a child does -- pictures and sounds first, then comes the alphabet and the text.
@melo217 Keep at it and you'll get it. He also has more recordings you can listen to like the gospel of John, and 1 John, 2 John, and 3 John, James, Paul's Areopagus address, and Epictetus' "Against the Academics" and "On Familial Love." Then there's the Part-Two books (1 & 2) with lots more recordings.
@melo217 Oh, also Buth doesn't use translation as a beginning point. I'm sure you know this since you're using his materials, but I just wanted to clarify for others who may be reading. Though it does become helpful later on in the process after some fluency is reached, grammar-translation is not the way to begin acquisition of a language. The best way to acquire language is use of the language itself within understandable context as presented; that is the key.
I hate using the Erasmian pronunciation for the Koine Greek of the New Testament era. By the time at which the New Testament was written, Koine Greek pronunciation had approached already the sounding of Modern Greek, except for a few vowels which did not change until the Byzantine era. The Erasmian pronunciation was probably more representative of the centuries prior to Christ and Alexander the Great, so why use it for New Testament Greek? It makes no sense.
I have taken three of the four NT Greek classes where we pronounce words as they appear -- is that the Erasmian pronunciation? -- then there is this Koine Greek course that is taught with the pronunciation that closely resembles the modern Greek, which is said to be backed up by linguistic research of the kind of Koine that was spoken around Jesus' time (Dr. Randall Buth's pronunciation). So the latter is said to be more historically accurate and also not so alien to Modern Gk.
@PROSTATHS Actually, the textual evidence is very strong that Erasmian's pronunciation was never used by anyone in antiquity. Its phonemes are mismatched, for all periods.
After observing this first video, I see many pedagogical practices that are non kosher in language education. For example, one of the plagues in our school system is teacher talk... teacher is at the front talking non-stop. It is the STUDENTS who are supposed to do the work, not the teacher--for example, the students should determine the value of learning Greek and not what the teacher thinks... just my two cents.
Fair enough, but the teacher is introducing a new subject, and as Theological Christians, they should be acustom to challenging opinions before baring them as belief.
If you look at the other videos, it's mostly teacher talk. Nowhere do the students talk with each other and interact in cooperative learning activities to construct knowledge. If you do find such, I'd gladly reevaluate his teaching techniques.
I am considering creating a New Testament course here on YouTube using an immersion approach that does not focus on memorizing grammar and vocabulary. Such approaches are outdated given the research on how languages (of any kind) are learned.
@latinosoul86 SLA (second language acquisition) research would agree with you. The key is use of language within understandable context. I'd love to watch videos like this with Koine Greek.
Here's info on pronunciation too if you aren't already aware of it.
omfg......if you talk to a Greek in Greece with the erasmian pronunciation he will not understand a thing.......και is pronunced ke , not kai....i dont know what is the most important? know ancient greek or modern greek? cause they are 2 different things...ancient greek CANT help anyone communicate with a greek person on his holiday in Greece for instance!
dude, this isn't modern greek ok? Do you really think the greek you speak today is the same language that was spoken 2000 years ago? You can go back 200 years and see a huge difference in English.
The change in English has nothing to do with the change in Greek. How can they even be related, just because they are both languages? Even the last couple hundred years has seen a huge shift in the English language. Greek, however, hasn't changed much. A handful of actual contextual word meanings have changed, and some diphthongs are no longer in use, but the pronunciation themselves are just about the same, with regional differences of course. What Erasmus guessed on is entirely inaccurate.
@curtisincorinth In Greece, our church teach the gospels at their original language, they were never translated in modern Greek because its not needed. Its the same language with but a few slight differences. Strange as it may sound the Greek language hasnt actually change since the time of Aexander the great and afterwords.
i am greek, i know. When he said the wrk students-μαθηταί, i didn't understand a thing, greek is the most difficult languge in the world, and especially americans and english ppl can't talk greek well because the english pronounciation doesn't allow it, ask ME for everything u want
I am learning Koine, but I can speak and write modern Greek. I think the best way to learn it if you don't know modern Greek is to pronounce it with the Erasmian method. But if you know modern Greek just pronounce it that way so as not to confuse yourself. No one really knows how Koine sounded.
I agree. When I studied classical Greek at the university. My professor used the "Classical" method and in modern Greek we hear a /ð/ instead. I asked him why and he had a detailed explanation but he did say: "Just don't argue this with a Greek, you'll always lose." - So, I'm wondering "even if we'll never know how ancient Greek was spoken", there has to be a right way for the common dialect.
All greek schoolchildren have to take classical greek..starting in grade 7. I dont remember ever discussing the accent differences but I know there are many. Im not so sure that there are many significant diff. between the common dialect and modern greek though. Koini greek(common) is often used in modern greek schools (hymns etc) and many priests speak it..I havent ever heard any accent differences. I think learning the modern greek accent is fine for the common dialect.
Has anyone considered using the Modern Greek pronunciation when speaking? The Erasmian is so old and wooden. You can learn Koine Greek much faster using the Modern Greek Euphony. Just a thought.
Hi, I saw your post and had to respond though very late, sorry! I think the Erasmian can be a lot more than wooden. I only used modern Greek for a long time, but think the fact that the diphthongs and vowels, sounding much alike (like the plural of the personal pronoun), make it hard to learn as a new student.
@ministerdavid it's easier understanding Koine Greek by pronouncing it using Erasmian instead of Modern, for beginners can easily follow in their minds how words are spelled. Eventually perhaps after 4 or 5 years of training one should shift to Modern Greek pronunciation.
marAnatha is correct. But μαθηταί is pronounced as matheete. The latter 'e' is pronounced as in End. The dipthong 'ai' in Greek as in 'kai' is ke like the 'e' in End. I could help you out with the pronounciation. Just send me a message. (im native Greek of course) good job nevertheless. it is very impressive to see foreign students study the bible in ancient greek and even more impressive seeing people teach it! :)
Thats funny. We always thought that many of the pronunciations have changed from Koine to modern Greek. So you are saying kai really sounds like Ke, instead of long "ai" as "I"? Interesting. How many people, what percentage, that you are aware of, pronounce the sigma as a "sh" sound? Ieosous and Yeshua are very similar and some say that in some regions of Greeces they still pronounce s as a sh, perhaps only moderately so, but they do. True?
The Sh sound probably didn't exist in Ancient Greek. In general harsh sounds like ch or sh didn't exist. The only Greeks who use harsh sounds are certainly the ones in Cyprus when using their Greek-Cypriot dialect because of the influence from Arabic, French and Turkish languages.
The institutional church model is almost invariably opposing to the model Jesus gave his servants of being with the people and discipling them in life scenarios, as did He. One cannot disciple from the pulpit. Misrepresented matthntns, (or mathnteuo) is "a fatal defect in the modern church" according to James Boice. Swindoll and others twist its meaning.
If you will allow a bit further explanation: The most important thing in the world is ones relationship to Jesus... But what is that relationship? Well it begins as disciple. (Matt. 29:19-20 is about this right?) So if we have a substandard view of that relationship, or an Americanized one we start off on the wrong foot. Discipleship is the means to aquiring faith in Jesus for it sows the seeds of truth in the heart, not just the head! Thanks for your work and any further thots on this.
Thanks for the effort! Good basics. However "student" is a very poor translation for mathntie. Don't you agree? Disciple uis a critically important term. You could use the word pictures which are contextualized by God for us by Jesus example. A disciple loves his master and is "trained" not just taught, for he walks and talks with the master in real life. Student connotates academic achievement, but discipleship is about practical living.
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ean imaste emis slaviani tote esis den iste ortodoxi kai den exete teos.se oles tis ikones grafi slavianika.giati tote kanete stavro se slavianikes ikones
Devoj4E 7 months ago
why americans don't even try to pronounciate it right
Mixarenan 8 months ago
Hopefully someone on here can help me out. I'm fairly new with biblical greek and I still get confused when the endings of words change. I was wanting to translate the phrase "Jesus Christ is King" into greek. If I use google translate, I know its wrong because it translates every word individually not as a sentence. It gives me, Ο Ιησούς Χριστός είναι Βασιλιάς. But I know that in Greek that the phrase "Jesus Christ" is written as, "Ιησοῦ χριστῶ." Can anyone properly translate that for me?
dadoggy03 1 year ago
@dadoggy03 Actually the google translation is right! 'Ιησοῦ χριστῶ' is written in ancient greek!
'Jesus Christ is King'= 'Ο Ιησούς Χριστός είναι Βασιλιάς' (o iisous christos einai vasilias)
JOKC79 1 year ago
latinosoul86. hey Brother, we are all after the same thing: getting good results .(Ephesians 4:12ff.) Your immersion approach works when students are motivated and appreciate the relevance of what they are doing. My approach combines the two. I got great results as a teacher/trainer/coach. Be appreciative there are Bible teachers that trying the right thing. I look forward seeing you inaction. God Bless You. scottybroker1
scottybroker 1 year ago
captin0mega - My friend, forgive me for not getting back to you in a more timely sense. I would suggest these works: The book of John (New Testament) using the easy to read Bible versions. I recommend New American Standard Bible, get it at Public Library. Also works that explain reasonable case for believing in Christ: Lee Strobe, Case for Christ and McDowell's Evidence That Demand a Verdict. start there and lets correspond again. God Bless scottybroker1@msn.com
scottybroker 1 year ago
captin0mega - My friend, forgive me for not getting back to you in a more timely sense. I would suggest these works: The book of John (New Testament) using the easy to read Bible versions. I recommend New American Standard, get it at Public Library. Also works the expplain reasonalbe case for believing in Christ: Lee Strobe, Case for Christ and McDowell's Evidence That Demand a Verdict. start there and lets correspond again scottybroker1@msn.com
scottybroker 1 year ago
Strange how all the videos on Greek are by Christians, dammit, what ever happened to pagan mythology scholars? Definitely more hardcore.
karlkarlkarl1234 1 year ago
@karlkarlkarl1234
yo, please explain the value of pagan mythology. I moved from studying the occultism and mysticism (Buddhist, Egyptian, et al) then studied Blavatsky, Mathers and even Crowley. When I began to study NT Christianity (not denominational christianity) my eyes were opened. Christ is truly the answr. I have a M. Behavioral Science:familiar with all of the schls of Psy, Soc,Psychtherpy. The best offered comes from scripture. Most of tse theorists thghts come frm Bible. I Cor 1:30
scottybroker 1 year ago
@scottybroker What subject should I begin to study if I want to believe that Christ is really the answer. Basically, what should I start studying first.
Thanks..
captin0mega 1 year ago
@captin0mega Study the book of Acts. It shows examples of many people who were searching and tells specifically what they asked, were given as answers, and their response to those answers. Don't take people's word for what to do, you won't see a 'sinner's prayer' ever said by one of them, question what people say by reading the things people did in Acts... They should be the ones we imitate, not people in the big crystal palaces they call churches.
curtisincorinth 9 months ago
They always speak greeks like that...they don't even TELL them RIGHT!
OkAmIMadFun 1 year ago
r u sure that new testament was written in greek?
ancient hebrew is a picture language...every letter has a meaning...and Joshua was speaking hebrew...
meanings r lost in translations...
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect There is absolutely no evidence that the NT was 1st written in Hebrew, none at all. That's not to say that all speech it records was originally Greek. There is evidence that parables were likely spoken in Hebrew. Also Hebrews generally spoke Hebrew [Aramaic was previously believed to be the spoken language of the Hebrews at the time but it has since been shown that Hebrew was their spoken language. E.g., Josephus records this.] So lots of dialog was Hebrew, recorded in Greek.
SimpleBibleChristian 1 year ago
@SimpleBibleChristian Basically, all three were in use at the time--Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
SimpleBibleChristian 1 year ago
@SimpleBibleChristian
it could not be greek. Joshua came to the jew first..and hebrew words as they were written in ancient hebrew, which is a picture language, can not be translated...
often the english translation , when it says lord, it takes it from hebrew word "yotam" ..and that is , arm, nail, cross, water..
ancient hebrew is very deep, where letter, roots and the whole word form all together a meaning..and unlike many languages, like greek or english, hebrew is a concrete language.
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect You are committing one of the most common fallacies of the Hebrew student, the etymological fallacy. Some call it one of the "first-year lies." That is to say, as Randall Buth explains, "the verbs in a binyan are to be learned as individual verbs and not 'produced out of roots'. The latter would be none other than the etymological fallacy."
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
sounds like physiology..
how about the Truth?
so please, be more concrete and specific...
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect Ahem... How 'bout you do that?
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect Now, if any language is a "picture language" it is not a spoken language but a signed one. I am a nationally certified ASL Interpreter and am well aware of the series of processes in interpretation and what they involve, esp. how a message expressed in a "picture language" [visuospatial conveyance] transmits into a spoken language [linear conveyance] and vice versa. BH isn't some mysterious untranslatable language. Languages convey meaning, and that meaning can be conveyed.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@SimpleBibleChristian
there r a lots of evidences that it was. take time to study ancient hebrew. u can not translate it because ancient hebrew is a picture language.
Joshua did not speak greek/english. and most of those who wrote the nt were hebrew.
even the style of written points that it must it been hebrew.
take time to go over it. when Yoshua said that He is beginning and end, He was saying that He is aleph and tav.aleph looks like the head of the bull and tov like a cross
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect You don't know that he said he is א and ת. What we have is 'το αλφα και το ω'. If he had wanted to indicate Hebrew letters he could easily have written e.g., αλεφ & ταυ. I have thought about it, and I don't see the relevance in him saying he's a bull head and a cross (which were NOT even written like that anyway for Hebrew at the time). I don't see why the meaning behind it couldn't be א and ת, but even if that could be demonstrated it doesn't follow that they were written.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
He must to...because prior to His coming, everything was written in hebrew...and those letters r pictures...u can c "head of the ox, cross"(aleph, tav) all over the scripture...and it reveals who He is....
stop misleading people...
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect Hmm, I wonder why את may appear a good bit throughout the Old Covenant scriptures, perhaps because it is a direct object marker and an integral feature of the language itself—and we see the language being used throughout the places where it is being used...so we see the features of the language frequently.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
the ancient hebrew word for a symbol, sigh...such as moses told them to put it on the doorsteps, is ....the head of ox, nail, cross....
try to translate it into english...
also, u can tell in hebrew/english translation, how often many different hebrew words r translated as one english word...many mistranslations....how could Yoshua say that He is coming in fullness that it was written of Him and later hav it recorded in other then hebrew language?
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect Jesus would have spoken Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, all 3. (I don't know where you are thinking English comes in here.) So, are you saying letters like 1 & 2 Corinthians written to a largely Gentile church were actually written in Hebrew? I'd like to see proof. :) Of course Paul being a former Pharisee and w/ Heb as his native language writes in a Heb argumentative style, but he also borrows from Greek style somewhat similar to Epictetus, which I wonder if you were even aware.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
hebrew is a picture language ...how can u translate that....?in english u say sigh...but in ancient hebrew it is "ox head, nail, cross"...and that is what moses told them to put on the doorsteps....
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx i don't know if He did...but the scriptures, everything that was recorded was in hebrew....regardless if it was spoken in hebrew or some other language...why would it change now?
soon, u might be saying that Joshua was dress like plato, ate pork and had wild parties on sabbath...
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect I'm sorry, I can't help you if you are unwilling to be open to any new information, and by 'new' I am not intimating that it was recently discovered. Ridicule and dismissal of evidence in favor of an absence of evidence to support a claim is not a mark of sound reasoning.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect Btw, you ARE aware that parts of the Old Covenant were written in Aramaic, not Hebrew, right?
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
which of the prophets said that the Messiah will speak in other then hebrew languages...which of the prophets said that the Word of Yahweh will be written in greek?
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect First of all, you are not dealing with any of the data I have presented which is completely against your assertions. And second, which of the prophets said the message would only be revealed in Hebrew? Don't you forget that the Old Covenant scriptures contain Aramaic sections, even? [Dan 2:4 thru ch 7, et al.] And if you are really wanting to find a prophet that speaks to revelations from God in other languages how about Isaiah (28:9-13)? See also Acts 2:4-16 and 1 Cor 14:20-22.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect And don't forget the Messiah himself spoke in Greek. [Of course he did not speak ONLY in Greek, but Greek was one of the languages he spoke in addition to Hebrew]. John 4:10-15 is one indication of this fact. The Samaritan woman misunderstood his terminology: his 'living water' [ὕδωρ ζῶν] was misunderstood as meaning running water, as per the common Greek idiom, when Jesus was really speaking of the Spirit.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
i don't know if He did...what language did moses speak to pharaoh? danial to nebuchadnezzar? but all was recorded in hebrew...which of the prophets said that there will be change of the recording language? because that would be an important announcement to make?
in english translation ,looks like five different words r translated as 'truth".
when Yoshua said 'truth" which word did he used?
greek is an abstract language.. ancient hebrew is a concrete language...
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect One also would not expect to find statements like the following in a Hebrew piece of writing.
- "So they assembled them at the place called in Hebrew Armagedon" (Rev 16:16).
- "Turning around, she said to Him in Hebrew, 'Rabbouni!'—which means 'Teacher'" (Jn 20:16).
And these are only two of several.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
that kind of tells u, that everything else had to be written in different then greek language...why would these two words be emphasis?
i am not sure what language moses spoke when he was in egypt, but everything was recorded in hebrew....
in ancient hebrew every letter has a concrete meaning...which makes it untranslatable.....because languages like greek a abstract languages.
also, when u speak another language, ur way of thinking changes....my original language is polish.
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect No, these indicate that they were not written in Hebrew; if they had been there would be no need to clarify terminology by translation. They are Hebrew words that the Greek writers used, transliterated into Greek and then explained. A Hebrew text would have no need of this.
If Hebrew is so untranslatable, don't read your Old Testament in any other language besides Hebrew [& don't forget Aramaic, it might get lonely ;) ].
I know your thinking changes when using diff languages.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
i do try to read more in hebrew and less in english...hopefully, one day ancient hebrew will become my every day language..... how many diiferent hebrew words were translated as english word "haste"
or "first" or "donkey"..when Yoshua spoke these words, which one did He use?
what is the meaning of the tenth letter in greek alphabet..in ancient hebrew is "open arm" that pronounces as yud
but in greek, it's just a sound..and isis and zues sounds very similar to "iesous"
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect If it is untranslatable then you don't know what it means either. All languages are translatable, just some ideas take more work than others. The origin of a letter doesn't continue as the meaning. Greek also has a distinctive value for every letter [numeric]. That is not the case outside of those two languages [unless a very obscure language also does].
masterkeep 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect The record of the teachings of Jesus shows that he used Greek, for the quotations of the OT match the LXX not the masoretic in many cases. There are obvious different words that are options for translation [both ways] & the use is not necessarily a mistranslation. Jesus in Hebrew sounds like Jacob in Arabic: homonyms of different languages don't invalidate a language for recording history. The concepts of grace are not easily recorded in Hebrew; but are Greek - hence fullness.
masterkeep 1 year ago
@YAHWEHisperfect "Joshua did not speak greek/english." Of course he didn't speak English at the time. But he definitely spoke Greek. If you were more familiar with the texts (and the languages) you would recognize this. In John 4 he speaks to a Samaritan woman. The dialogue takes place in Greek as is evident from the woman's misunderstanding of his use of the term "living water." She thought he meant flowing spring water, as per the common Greek idiom. But Jesus was speaking of the Spirit.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
Comment removed
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@xxpowwowbluexx
it is an englisg translation of the greek translation that u refer to....
and if u r correct, then danial was speaking percian in the scriptures and so on and so forth....
besides, it was only her and Joshua there.....but the Spirit of Yahweh was the one that inspire the Word...ancient hebrew is a picture language where every letter has a meaning....how can u translate that into another language?
YAHWEHisperfect 1 year ago
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@YAHWEHisperfect I want to recommend to you to visit this site and check out the Hebrew acquisition opportunities there. שלום וברכות.
biblicalulpan . org
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
OUR ENGLISH WORD'BAPTIZE' IS A TRANSLATION FROM THE GREEK WORD 'BAPTIZMO' MEANING TO DIP,IMMERSE OR PLUNDGE.'
TOUCHMYHEARTable 1 year ago
@TOUCHMYHEARTable I think you mean βαπτίζω, not baptizMo. But a problem is that βαπτίζω doesn't mean 'to baptize, wash, dip'. It means 'I baptize, wash, dip'. Βαπτίσαι is the aorist infinitive I think you are looking for. That is one of the problems with having the first person present tense as a lemma for verbs. The language doesn't necessarily reflect this type of structure, not to mention it can be confusing. See "Verbs Perception and Aspect: Greek Lexicography and Grammar" by Randall Buth.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
I have to say that English accent is obvious in his pronunciation - it is just hard to stand it. Sorry folks!
939892 1 year ago
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Take a look at this page for a (much) better way to learn Koiné Greek.
biblicalulpan [dot] org [slash] pages [slash] Common [slash] sample_greek [dot] html
"Learn Biblical Hebrew and Greek faster, go farther, and remember forever."
Home Page-- biblicalulpan [dot] org
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
The greatest challenge to learning a new language, especially ancient languages, is the revelation of how poorly we understand the proper and technical use of the grammar of our own native language.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
If I ever write a Greek text, I'm starting verbs with the aorist...most text start with present active indicative because it's easiest, but I say start verbs with the one that appears most often in the Bible...
flizzleFlopper 2 years ago 2
@flizzleFlopper ἀμήν. Starting with the present active indicative is a sure way to hinder fluency. Dr. Randall Buth has written an excellent article on this very subject called "Verbs, Perception and Aspect, Greek Lexicography and Grammar: Helping Students to Think in Greek." It appears in the work _Biblical Greek Language and Lexicography, Essays in Honor of Frederick W. Danker_. You should check it out if you haven't already. It is well worth the read.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@flizzleFlopper The reason words are demonstrated in the present active indicative is because that is the root formation of the verb in question. Once you know the root form, in most cases, especially in the -mi conjugation forms, you will be able to easily make the transition to the appropriate voice, mood and tense of the word.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
@HermitintheRain lists.ibiblio [DOT] org/pipermail/b-greek/2007-January/041901.html
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
que letras más feas!
JoePerry91 2 years ago
A man, I like your stile. I have been a student into the Greek for a small time now and already I spot bad doctrine afar off. I tell you what I want to learn this Dialect, so I can Logie, hee hee.
daytonohiofellowship 2 years ago
Great class!!
innercityrouge 2 years ago
WTF?His pronunciation totally s u c k s !And I can tell so because I'm greek myself........This is a too americanized way to pronunce,which actually makes native greek speakers laugh out loud......
koadaki17 2 years ago
@koadaki17 The reason his pronunciation is off is because he is not using modern Greek pronunciation but what was believed to be the Greek pronunciation during the time the New Testament was written. However, no one really knows what those sounds were now.
inluuvwjesus 2 years ago
SimpleBibleChristian 1 year ago
@SimpleBibleChristian That's supposed to be Ι = ΕΙ; Η; Ε = ΑΙ; Α; Ω = Ο; ΟΥ; and Υ = ΟΙ. It took away the formatting.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
Great class!!!
innercityrouge 2 years ago
I am devising a way of teaching it that introduces the alphabet first and then have the text read together with the pictures and audio. i guess this is more helpful for students who are already literate, and are accustomed to learning the way we learned our ABCs -- a picture of an apple under letter A with the text of the letter and the word apple read aloud.
melo217 2 years ago
So I also tried learning Buth's translation and book for my Gk NT review but I find it hard to 'unlearn' the previously taught pronunciation... especially that the methodology takes the form of learning like a child does -- pictures and sounds first, then comes the alphabet and the text.
melo217 2 years ago
@melo217 Keep at it and you'll get it. He also has more recordings you can listen to like the gospel of John, and 1 John, 2 John, and 3 John, James, Paul's Areopagus address, and Epictetus' "Against the Academics" and "On Familial Love." Then there's the Part-Two books (1 & 2) with lots more recordings.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
@melo217 Oh, also Buth doesn't use translation as a beginning point. I'm sure you know this since you're using his materials, but I just wanted to clarify for others who may be reading. Though it does become helpful later on in the process after some fluency is reached, grammar-translation is not the way to begin acquisition of a language. The best way to acquire language is use of the language itself within understandable context as presented; that is the key.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
I hate using the Erasmian pronunciation for the Koine Greek of the New Testament era. By the time at which the New Testament was written, Koine Greek pronunciation had approached already the sounding of Modern Greek, except for a few vowels which did not change until the Byzantine era. The Erasmian pronunciation was probably more representative of the centuries prior to Christ and Alexander the Great, so why use it for New Testament Greek? It makes no sense.
PROSTATHS 2 years ago 2
I have taken three of the four NT Greek classes where we pronounce words as they appear -- is that the Erasmian pronunciation? -- then there is this Koine Greek course that is taught with the pronunciation that closely resembles the modern Greek, which is said to be backed up by linguistic research of the kind of Koine that was spoken around Jesus' time (Dr. Randall Buth's pronunciation). So the latter is said to be more historically accurate and also not so alien to Modern Gk.
melo217 2 years ago 2
@PROSTATHS Actually, the textual evidence is very strong that Erasmian's pronunciation was never used by anyone in antiquity. Its phonemes are mismatched, for all periods.
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
After observing this first video, I see many pedagogical practices that are non kosher in language education. For example, one of the plagues in our school system is teacher talk... teacher is at the front talking non-stop. It is the STUDENTS who are supposed to do the work, not the teacher--for example, the students should determine the value of learning Greek and not what the teacher thinks... just my two cents.
latinosoul86 2 years ago
Fair enough, but the teacher is introducing a new subject, and as Theological Christians, they should be acustom to challenging opinions before baring them as belief.
kirgy9 2 years ago
If you look at the other videos, it's mostly teacher talk. Nowhere do the students talk with each other and interact in cooperative learning activities to construct knowledge. If you do find such, I'd gladly reevaluate his teaching techniques.
I am considering creating a New Testament course here on YouTube using an immersion approach that does not focus on memorizing grammar and vocabulary. Such approaches are outdated given the research on how languages (of any kind) are learned.
latinosoul86 2 years ago 2
@latinosoul86 SLA (second language acquisition) research would agree with you. The key is use of language within understandable context. I'd love to watch videos like this with Koine Greek.
Here's info on pronunciation too if you aren't already aware of it.
- biblicalulpan [DOT] org/pages/Common/Greek%20Pronunciation%20%282008%29.pdf
- Listen to a reading of 1 John 1
biblicalulpan [DOT] org/Sound_files/1John1.MP3
SimpleBibleChristian 1 year ago
@latinosoul86
you are gay.
karlkarlkarl1234 1 year ago
@latinosoul86 Still waiting on this..
captin0mega 1 year ago
omfg......if you talk to a Greek in Greece with the erasmian pronunciation he will not understand a thing.......και is pronunced ke , not kai....i dont know what is the most important? know ancient greek or modern greek? cause they are 2 different things...ancient greek CANT help anyone communicate with a greek person on his holiday in Greece for instance!
greekmadnessss 2 years ago
The point is to learn it for New Testament study, such as reading ancient manuscripts.
poolerboy0077 2 years ago
dude, this isn't modern greek ok? Do you really think the greek you speak today is the same language that was spoken 2000 years ago? You can go back 200 years and see a huge difference in English.
curtisincorinth 2 years ago
The change in English has nothing to do with the change in Greek. How can they even be related, just because they are both languages? Even the last couple hundred years has seen a huge shift in the English language. Greek, however, hasn't changed much. A handful of actual contextual word meanings have changed, and some diphthongs are no longer in use, but the pronunciation themselves are just about the same, with regional differences of course. What Erasmus guessed on is entirely inaccurate.
meestro 2 years ago
@curtisincorinth Modern Greek is the same as koine Greek the same way Shakespeare's English is the same as modern American English.
SupernautG 1 year ago
@curtisincorinth
Is it "maranatha didoskale" OR "maranatha didaskale"
It looks like alpha on the board but the voices sound like omicron. Maybe it is your American accents :)
-ty
karlkarlkarl1234 1 year ago
@curtisincorinth In Greece, our church teach the gospels at their original language, they were never translated in modern Greek because its not needed. Its the same language with but a few slight differences. Strange as it may sound the Greek language hasnt actually change since the time of Aexander the great and afterwords.
Irigoni14 11 months ago
@Irigoni14 i'm very glad to read that
corkystorky 7 months ago
@curtisincorinth
this is a biblical Greek lesson. lol
mathias7777777777777 9 months ago
guys, guys! the guy DOESN'T KNOW greek ok?
i am greek, i know. When he said the wrk students-μαθηταί, i didn't understand a thing, greek is the most difficult languge in the world, and especially americans and english ppl can't talk greek well because the english pronounciation doesn't allow it, ask ME for everything u want
JustCause95 2 years ago
@JustCause95 Curious to know what your modern ears think of this reading...
biblicalulpan [dot] org [slash] Sound_files [slash] 1John1 [dot] MP3
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
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ugly english speakers pronouncing Greek,If I were to Learn Greek,I'd learn it from Spanish.
designedsayer 2 years ago
Maybe he thinks Greek is only for Greeks.
ardyle1 2 years ago
What are you on about?
whitemagick4 2 years ago
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There is No such thing as New Testament GREEK.
metaldrummer35 2 years ago
I am learning Koine, but I can speak and write modern Greek. I think the best way to learn it if you don't know modern Greek is to pronounce it with the Erasmian method. But if you know modern Greek just pronounce it that way so as not to confuse yourself. No one really knows how Koine sounded.
AeroplanumMaximum 3 years ago
@AeroplanumMaximum You may want to look into these...
biblicalulpan [dot] org [slash] Sound_files [slash] 1John1 [dot] MP3
biblicalulpan [dot] org [slash] pages [slash] Common [slash] Greek%20Pronunciation%20(2008) [dot] pdf
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
ἀστειότατός ἐστιν! He's funny!
KlaasAlexander 3 years ago
kalo kalo, re eides otan o malakal leei mathitai? teleios UFO
JustCause95 2 years ago
ay ay..also didaskale (which is not really used anymore, dont say this to a greek) is pronounced thithaskale..th as in the.
elenix 3 years ago
I agree. When I studied classical Greek at the university. My professor used the "Classical" method and in modern Greek we hear a /ð/ instead. I asked him why and he had a detailed explanation but he did say: "Just don't argue this with a Greek, you'll always lose." - So, I'm wondering "even if we'll never know how ancient Greek was spoken", there has to be a right way for the common dialect.
millerhighlife06 3 years ago
All greek schoolchildren have to take classical greek..starting in grade 7. I dont remember ever discussing the accent differences but I know there are many. Im not so sure that there are many significant diff. between the common dialect and modern greek though. Koini greek(common) is often used in modern greek schools (hymns etc) and many priests speak it..I havent ever heard any accent differences. I think learning the modern greek accent is fine for the common dialect.
elenix 3 years ago
@millerhighlife06 Pronunciation...
biblicalulpan [DOT] org/pages/Common/Greek%20Pronunciation%20%282008%29.pdf
Listen to a reading of 1 John 1...
biblicalulpan [DOT] org/Sound_files/1John1.MP3
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
Has anyone considered using the Modern Greek pronunciation when speaking? The Erasmian is so old and wooden. You can learn Koine Greek much faster using the Modern Greek Euphony. Just a thought.
ministerdavid 3 years ago 11
Hi, I saw your post and had to respond though very late, sorry! I think the Erasmian can be a lot more than wooden. I only used modern Greek for a long time, but think the fact that the diphthongs and vowels, sounding much alike (like the plural of the personal pronoun), make it hard to learn as a new student.
NousChristou 1 year ago
@ministerdavid yes, many scholars have propose to do just that.
dezappia 1 year ago
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@ministerdavid Yes, scholars have considered that.
dezappia 1 year ago
@ministerdavid it's easier understanding Koine Greek by pronouncing it using Erasmian instead of Modern, for beginners can easily follow in their minds how words are spelled. Eventually perhaps after 4 or 5 years of training one should shift to Modern Greek pronunciation.
corkystorky 7 months ago
Modern Greek pronounciation is more useful. Erasmian sounds "strange" and at times ridicoulous to Modern Greek speakers.
VideoGrabaciones2010 2 weeks ago in playlist New Testament Greek Class
@VideoGrabaciones2010 alright if you say so :)
corkystorky 2 weeks ago
His accent is so strange.
But this is important.
snarge 4 years ago
marAnatha is correct. But μαθηταί is pronounced as matheete. The latter 'e' is pronounced as in End. The dipthong 'ai' in Greek as in 'kai' is ke like the 'e' in End. I could help you out with the pronounciation. Just send me a message. (im native Greek of course) good job nevertheless. it is very impressive to see foreign students study the bible in ancient greek and even more impressive seeing people teach it! :)
whitemagick4 4 years ago
Thats funny. We always thought that many of the pronunciations have changed from Koine to modern Greek. So you are saying kai really sounds like Ke, instead of long "ai" as "I"? Interesting. How many people, what percentage, that you are aware of, pronounce the sigma as a "sh" sound? Ieosous and Yeshua are very similar and some say that in some regions of Greeces they still pronounce s as a sh, perhaps only moderately so, but they do. True?
PilgrimRoy 4 years ago
The Sh sound probably didn't exist in Ancient Greek. In general harsh sounds like ch or sh didn't exist. The only Greeks who use harsh sounds are certainly the ones in Cyprus when using their Greek-Cypriot dialect because of the influence from Arabic, French and Turkish languages.
whitemagick4 4 years ago
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@PilgrimRoy Pronunciation...
biblicalulpan [DOT] org/pages/Common/Greek%20Pronunciation%20%282008%29.pdf
Listen to a reading of 1 John 1...
biblicalulpan [DOT] org/Sound_files/1John1.MP3
xxpowwowbluexx 1 year ago
The institutional church model is almost invariably opposing to the model Jesus gave his servants of being with the people and discipling them in life scenarios, as did He. One cannot disciple from the pulpit. Misrepresented matthntns, (or mathnteuo) is "a fatal defect in the modern church" according to James Boice. Swindoll and others twist its meaning.
PilgrimRoy 4 years ago
If you will allow a bit further explanation: The most important thing in the world is ones relationship to Jesus... But what is that relationship? Well it begins as disciple. (Matt. 29:19-20 is about this right?) So if we have a substandard view of that relationship, or an Americanized one we start off on the wrong foot. Discipleship is the means to aquiring faith in Jesus for it sows the seeds of truth in the heart, not just the head! Thanks for your work and any further thots on this.
PilgrimRoy 4 years ago
Thanks for the effort! Good basics. However "student" is a very poor translation for mathntie. Don't you agree? Disciple uis a critically important term. You could use the word pictures which are contextualized by God for us by Jesus example. A disciple loves his master and is "trained" not just taught, for he walks and talks with the master in real life. Student connotates academic achievement, but discipleship is about practical living.
PilgrimRoy 4 years ago
Well said.
LifesaGardenDigit1 4 years ago