Limit Point of Observation Advanced Motorcycle Training

[TheCOLLIE38]

Excellent video, Nigel!! :-) I am doing a motorcycle course for the emergency services at present. The instructor kept going on about "limit points" on bends and I hadn't a clue what he was talking about...So it confused me and nearly caused me to collide with a tanker on a bend. It was only after watching your vid on limit points did I realise what he was talking about. Thanks for that Nigel! All your vids are a great help to me at the moment. Great instruction and excellent explanations too.

[advancedbiker]

@TheCOLLIE38 Thanks for the feedback. Good luck on the course. Let me know how you get on, and if you need any more help, please keep in touch.

[TheCOLLIE38]

@advancedbiker Thanks Nigel. But got the bad news yesterday...didn't pass the course, mainly due to nerves. Poor road positioning and incorrect gears brought me down :-( But I've been invited back on the next course. Fingers crossed, Nigel! ;-)

[advancedbiker]

@TheCOLLIE38 - Never mind, expereince gained..... You can private message me if you need a hand. Did the gears have a direct effect on positioning ?

[advancedbiker]

@TheCOLLIE38 - Never mind, expereince gained..... You can private message me if you need a hand.  Did the gears have a direct effect on positioning ?

[TheCOLLIE38]

@advancedbiker would love to email you for advice, if that's ok, Nigel!! What's your email address,please? I was mostly driving in 3rd gear on a 700cc motorbike along country roads...which consisted of most of the course.

[prettyboyfloydrules]

the police instructor told him that no police bike rider would ever pull another biker for doing this providing upon approaching villages/ 30 areas these were acknowledged, and it wasnt across solid double white lines. they actively encouraged them to do it during the course! remember bikes can change direction, accelerate, brake much better than cars and the wider the line the easier it is, the earlier you see oncoming and the earlier they see you.

[advancedbiker]

@prettyboyfloydrules - I can see where you are coming from, but in my experience they is a vast difference between between Police Trained riders and non Police riders. Today too much traffic on the road to safely do it.

[thepeahead987]

@advancedbiker i am confused by what you mean when it you say its going away, and friendly curve?? cheers

[advancedbiker]

@thepeahead987 When I say going away - It relates to the LImit Point of Observation, whilst negotiating the curve if the Limit Point starts to move...It is going away. The phrase 'Friendly Curve', came from a client who said to me one day,' That was a Friendly Bend'. In otherwords a good one, good view in and out, can be PLANNED for, one tha you can be prepared for bfore commiting to it.....

[prettyboyfloydrules]

my brother went on an advanced riding course with the police 2 or 3 years ago. the instructor was constantly on the right hand side (wrong) side of the road in rural areas for left hand bends. it was explained that this was safer for a couple of reasons. 1. you can see further around the bend (including oncoming vehicles) earlier. 2. the oncoming vehicles can see you earlier (and will undoubtedly slow down. 3. the "racing" line from outside to inside is much less tight than inside to outside

[advancedbiker]

@prettyboyfloydrules Thanks for the comment. Positioning for left hand bends and using the opposite carriageway, is a way of extending you view,but I always ask myself is it really necessary atthe speeds you are surposed to travel at, ie, within the posted speed limits. I for one do not encourage such positioning.

[duckgeezer]

Anyone who needs to be taught how to ride a motorcycle should steer well clear of them and take up knitting with the rest of the girls.

I'm self taught from age 16, never had a lesson, never will have a lesson, not a scratch after nearly 40 years. This is all silly PC B.S.

[ahaughey536]

Coming up to a left bend where should you be on the road?

[djpert1]

Awesome!! Gonna do that now. So much easier to plan!!

[advancedbiker]

@djpert1 Use the Limit Point as a guide only.....Try and use other things like, hedgerows, telegraph poles, vehicles in front either going away from you or coming towards you. This all helps with the 'attitude of the bend'. Once you have done this think, speed of approach, gear for that speed and plan for the exit.....Then start all over again for the next bend......

[dgsutton2000]

best explanation ive heard in many years of riding great vid cheers

[ppaauulloohhaarraa]

sound like him off bullseye ;)



[marudaimone]

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[Potato0verlord]

thanks for the clip, very helpful

[advancedbiker]

Anytime

Regards

Nigel

[Shavenuw129]

ToniWB - how the f&ck can you be an instructor/observer to such a high standard if you couldn't describe where a limit point was? I'm a Class 1 Advanced Police Driver with many years experience and limit points are bread & butter!

[advancedbiker]

Thanks for the comment, I think reading bewteen the lines, he knew what the Limit Point was, having problems explaining it. You would be amazed at the amount of peopel who do not know what it is, even those who have passed advanced tests,

[geoffart]

I think toniWB means the problem is at the other end. The principal is a bit like trying to explain counter steering. I suppose if your trying to explain these things without the video, it could be very hard for some people to accept them, unless they were good at physics.

[repap1a]

@Shavenuw129 and as an Advanced POLICE Driver, you should be more aware of , where you write, what you write.

[starbeitch]

n,

another informative clip. keep up the good work.

bruce

[toniWB]

Excellent! I am an instructor/observer for advanced car, LGV and ambulance drivers on "Blues & Twos". I am also a biker about to undergo advanced training. I have always struggled for a way to communicate "Vanishing Points" to some of my students. I found your video, commentary and graphics very useful. May I use them?

[advancedbiker]

No problem at all, the vids are for public use

Good luck with the course

Regards

Nigel

[martyn7836]

great vid this is something my dad has been trying to tell me but it makes so much more sense with the graphic and @ the start looking at the bend PLEASE keep them coming never get board of watching these

[infernalruss]

lol - i work near there - random.

[davebikes]

Fantastic , been riding 24 yrs , advanced to Police standard . Good to see it in action.

[advancedbiker]

You will be catching me up... 33 years, doesn't time fly when ou are enjoying yourself.

[noxious89123]

Am I the only one thinking that "Alison"'s riding is a bit ooh-er... She crosses the white line unneccesarily at one point, and rides too close to it through many a bend... The bike might not be over the line, but if your body is, it makes no difference. The car coming the otherway is still going to take you out.

Good video though.

[rascolians]

Nothing wrong with crossing the white line, if this helps you to maintain your view which in turn helps you to make quick progress then it is valuable. Only criticism of this video is the lack of road use on left handers, if safety allows then why not get over to the right to get the view around the left hander. Class One Cop Rider.

[noxious89123]

Quite simply, you are wrong.

If you need to cross the white line, to see further ahead, then you are travelling too fast for that stretch of road. If you take a RH bend, and cross the white line, to better see around a LH bend that is coming up, because you cant see round it, what are you going to do when a car or other road user comes around that bend and hits you, killing them, you or both. It is NEVER ok to approach a bend on the wrong side of the road.

[rascolians]

No you are wrong, its all about extending your view, as your view improves so does your speed, not the other way around. This makes you quicker, safer and capable of greater progress . If you don't understand the principle then just don't even think about it. I don't have the riding qualification that I have for nothing. What's your background in terms of training, experience or are you one of the riders that trickle along near my house on sunny Sundays at 30mph?

[noxious89123]

Is english not your first language or did you simply not read my post? I never said that going faster improves your view, I said that if you need to cross the white line to be able to see a safe distance ahead, then YOU ARE GOING TOO FAST. If you cross the white lines because you can't see far enough ahead, then you can't see far enough ahead to know that a car isn't coming the other way!.

[noxious89123]

If you were being followed by a police car and you needlessly crossed the white line like that, it'd be a pull, 3 points and a bollocking

[rascolians]

rubbish...

[noxious89123]

Rubbish?! Are you in the UK, or some magical fairy land where the police don't pull bikers at every opportunity?

[rascolians]

You clearly don't get it, and clearly you are another 'expert' who does not have a clue.

[noxious89123]

I do not claim to be an "expert". I do understand your point about road positioning, so that you can see further ahead (thus allowing you to ride faster). However, you do not seem able to understand my point, and are so sure of your own opinion, that you are not willing to consider my point. Travelling on the wrong side of the road will get you pulled over. Fact. Tell me what makes you think it wouldn't!

[blackturbans]

Who's right and who's wrong in the argument in the comments between rascolians and noxious89123

??????????

[noxious89123]

Me! :D

[learn2rideVIDEOS]

excellent as usual- the graphics worked well too. hadn't seen this video before

good to see the rider understanding what is quite a difficult concept to explain (i find)

'lose your view-lose your speed'- excellent mantra and one many bikers should adopt. NEVER rely on luck to get you round a corner. i tend to say, 'never put your bike where your eyes haven't been first' but i think, 'lose your view, lose your speed or lose your life' would be a better one.

5stars awesome as usual nigel,thanks

[nevertrustabunny]

last time i checked we drive on the right side.

you lot, on the other-hand (pun intended) are gauche.

and didn't i see some viddy of you and the lads in normandy?  tsk tsk. you didn't crash there did you?

[advancedbiker]

Ok you win.......Point taken

[nevertrustabunny]

love the video and ideas behind it. but you have much better driver's training in the u.k. in this country, if we were to to that kind of speed though a small country village like that surely some numb-skull would pull out in a pick-up truck without looking. top speed under those conditions here in the u.s. would be about 35m.p.h. with all of those blind entrances. but you must come to the states sometime and ride the p.c.h. you life will change forever.

[advancedbiker]

Thaks fr the comments and idea about coming over to the states. Nice idea, but you ride on the wrong side of the road.........

[thehowlingterror]

Fantastic video. Thankyou for your effort

[PIRANHA26965]

i like that saying 'lose your view lose your speed' thanks

[advancedbiker]

It is a saying I always use and it does work. It makes you think...

[spearfysh]

Thank you for these videos. I have had your voice in my head many times when riding, especially in areas that are unfamiliar. I'm not to proud to say I have made some stupid mistakes in my assessment of some bends and I seem to have a bias towards left hand bends, they just don't seem as natural or flow as well? But to be in position to know why I made those mistakes means I must have learnt something so thanks again.

[outhablu2]

These videos are very helpful, Many Thanks,

[commachio123]

buffering really badly, unwatchable

[patrickcbf]

Another gem, not seen my me previously.

[gwb542002]

Just about to do the IAM course - these videos really have helped with the practice. I think I've watched them all now - next one please!!

[advancedbiker]

Good luck and hope you do well with the test. Gad I could help, as I feel that by using video in this way, is much better than reading a book. I'll have to start charging a consultancy fee.........

Let me know how you get on...

[gwb542002]

Just about to do the IAM course - these videos really have helped with the practice. I think I've watched them all now - next one please!!

[obc1sniper]

Do you guys ever find that when you are a learner, a long days riding just knackers you out! After my cbt i was empty!

[advancedbiker]

Yes, well I do. You are concentrating more and planning.. not like when you are in the tin box oops car....

[mikenco]

I've never thought of bends as 'friendly'!.. I like it!

Good vid, thanks :)

[na0512]

Brilliant! It's always amazed me how riding is based on the laws of physics and perceptionm and you're video is one of the most useful, simple and understandable I've seen concerning Advanced Riding. Thanks

[advancedbiker]

Thanks,

I'll look at doing another one using the graphics, your choice.........Bend Assessment in otherwords, what to look for, or overtaking