Dragonball GT only sucks because Akira Toriyama didn't write the story like he did for DBZ,he only helped out with his artwork and designs of the characters
yh but look goku ssj4 gohan ssj2 trunks ssj goten ssj vegeta ssj2 er everyone at least should be power ful enough to go ssj3 atleast even if you want to make goku the strongest why make vegeta skip 2 sjj levels to and use a machine to go ssj4 it was very upsetting
@1stnaruto - While that happened for Goku the first time he went SSJ we don't know if that continues to happen for the SSJ form as they continue to train. I would imagine not since according to the Daizenshuu the SSJ3 form is only 3-4 times more powerful than the SSJ2 form and the SSJ2 form is only 2 or 3 times more powerful than the SSJ1 form. My theory is that going SSJ may raise their base power over time, making the difference difference less drastic.
@A86 the power is different if they continue to train but the amount of times it highers it remains at 50 times with SSj2 being 100X and SSJ3 being 400X
@1stnaruto - I'm not so sure about that. Goku has held relatively his own against some villains in his Base form while being more powerful than the villain in his SSJ form, but still vulnerable. If it always gives him a 50x boost then occurrences like that would make no sense, but they happen nonetheless. Like Vegetto being somewhat vulnerable to Super Buu even after going SSJ. If he became 50x more powerful that would make absolutely no sense.
@A86 you realize that vegeto was NEVER vulnerable against gohan boo? he was toying with him so much. boo was a joke to him. not to mention he was way stronger already in his base form. He actually never got hit. in the anime they did that to prolong the fight and of course cause of the manga. He was too strong for him
@1stnaruto - He was indeed already stronger than Buu in his Base form but Buu did still pose a bit of a limited threat to him. He looked worried/unsure when Super Buu pulled out that planet-crushing energy ball and Super Buu was able to get a few hits in on Vegetto and smack him around a bit in his Base form. As a SSJ Vegetto was in limited danger when Super Buu went berserk and started destroying the universe. He actually had to put some effort into breaking Buu's energy barrier.
@1stnaruto - Also, throughout the fight even though Vegetto very obviously had the upper hand Old Kai never relaxed like Kaoibito did. Old Kai kept pointing out that Buu was still not totally harmless to Vegetto and he could still win if Vegetto wasn't careful.
@A86 Old kai didnt relax cause boo could kill him if he was totally off his guard. the only time he was off guard was when he got turned into candy and that was the sort of thing old kai feared. And even though he smacked him around in his base form. vegeto wasn't hurt in the least bit. it was just a way to get his "blood flowing" XD. that thing with the universe was anime only. sometimes those things mess up how strong the characters are and sometimes no. boo went ALL OUT with the barrier.
@1stnaruto - Vegetto wasn't truly off-guard when Buu absorbed him. He allowed Buu to do it on purpose (or so Vegetto claimed) so he could get inside Buu and take out the others. I guess that makes sense since he knew there would be no other way to rescue the others. Destroying Buu would destroy them.
Vegetto was never hurt too bad but Buu did have a limited ability to hurt him a little (something Vegetto admitted when Super Buu used several beams on him with those Ghosts).
@1stnaruto - Which wouldn't make sense if Vegetto's power increased 50fold. If Vegetto's powers increased that much then it would be damn near impossible for Buu to each TOUCH Vegetto, let alone be quick enough to catch him off-guard. That would be like a human running fast enough to evade detection by a motion-sensing camera. That scene where Super Buu managed to hold back Vegetto with his berserk energy field (Vegetto had to actually exert some effort) would have also been impossible.
@1stnaruto - Not to mention other things in DBZ like Goku withstanding some attacks from Cooler in his Base form but still being vulnerable to some of his attacks as a SSJ, Future Trunks being able to phase the Androids a little as a preteen in his Base form but still being less powerful than them as a SSJ, etc. Those occurrences don't make sense if their power goes up 50x each time. If Trunks could get the best of 18 for a second in his Base form, a 50x boost should put his power above hers.
@1stnaruto - It did for Goku that one time but we don't know if it does that every other time. In DBZ character's power levels increase by different amounts depending on their emotional state and potential. Not all fighters have the same potential and they're not always in the same intensity of emotional state when they go SSJ. According to the same files Future Trunks' Base power as a preteen was 3-4,000,000 and only goes to 17,000,000 at SSJ1 (20,000,000 when he came back in the Android Saga).
@A86 those are phony files you're reading. haha. Trunks was above 150,000,000 when he came back to kill freeza. Goku was 150 mil on namek as a ssj and freeza was 120 mil at 100% and trunks' power was greater than that when he got to that timeline. that overrules anything about not being the same. trunks wouldnt have a chance at 17 mil or 10 mil. So yeah, that says its always the same. it doesnt matter if they're in imminent danger or not. They go SSj with a certain amount of anger. thats it.
@1stnaruto - What are you reading? So far I've seen none for what SSJ Trunks' power was other than one reading at 17 million and another at 20 million. The Daizenshuu gave a power level of 150 million for Goku as a SSJ but, like other level charts before it, the Daizenshuu is flawed in its own ways. It makes Goku's power jump from 180,000 to 3,000,000 (an almost 17fold increase) just from the beating he took from Cap. Ginyu while Vegeta was trashed by Zarbon but only went from 24,000 to 35,000.
@1stnaruto - The Daizenshuu also has 2nd Form Frieza at >1,000,000 but makes his power jumpt to a ridiculous 120,000,000 at From 4 (33%). This huge leap seems to be based on an English anime dub mistranslation where they made Form 2 Frieza (whose power was over 1,000,000) claim that he was only using 1% of his power. Many American fans knew that was dialogue English dubbers added (not an original line in the Jap audio) but this line may have stuck in some minds.
@A86 Goku's ssj lvl WAS 150 mil. goku's level wasn't 180 thou. thats the level with Kaio-Ken. His real power level was only 80 to 90,000. Ginyu was stronger. Goku's strength has always been stated to be natural talented. Vegeta went from that level to the same level as freeza after getting the senzu. He was thrashed that badly. and then went to around a mil after dende healed him. Vegeta beat goku's body pretty badly too. trunks' power wasn't that low. The ssj goku levels aren't flawed.
I think you need to re-read the Daizenshuu power levels. It clearly has has max power after landing on Planet Namek as "180,000". That's his max power after training on the way over to the planet. It lists his power as 3,000,000 after healing (a ridiculous 17x increase just from being beaten up in Ginyu's body). It lists his Kaio-Kenx10 power as 30,000,000 and x20 as 60,000,000. Then SSJ1 as 150,000,000.
@A86 yeah the bottom powerlevels are correct. the above no no no. Goku's aura is white. his kai-ken red. and he clearly yells Kaio-ken when powering up. the reason it says 180,000 is b/c that was the highest he went before he got his body beat up. Goku could've gone 10x but didnt and that would've made his power spike to 900,000.
@1stnaruto - That's true, his aura did turn red. But it seemed he only used Kaio-Kenx1. If so then Goku's max power was 120,000. If it was only 90,000 he would have needed Kaio-Kenx2 to get a power level of 180,000. If his true max power was 120,000 (equal with Cap. Ginyu) Kaio-Kenx10 would yield 1,200,000.
I still think they flubbed after this point. An earlier chart had Goku's power as "300,000" after healing. A much more reasonable increase following how Saiyan power seems to behave.
dragonball (.) wikia (.) com / wiki/ List _ of _ Power _ Levels
There's seems to be a Kaio-Kenx1. However, the article on Kaio-Ken notes that there is an inconsistency with listings for x1 and x2. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. DBZ power levels are notorious for inconsistencies and logical errors.
@1stnaruto - Goku's power had bursts of 60,000-90,000 against Burter, Jeice and Recoome but he didn't use his full power. Goku unleashed his full power against Cap. Ginyu. At most he may have used Kaio-Kenx1 (which increases the user's max power by 50%, Kaio-Kenx2 doubles their max power, a 100% increase). If he used Kaio-Kenx1 against Ginyu then his max power was actually 120,000 (if 180,000 was his Kaio-Kenx1 power, a 50% increase over 120,000).
@A86 kaioken DOUBLES. Kaioken x3 TRIPLES. kaioken x2 is a thing that was never fully explained and therefore we really dont know how much it increases by. ginyu knew gokus real level which was arounf 85 to 90 thou. kaioken = 180 thou. Boom.
No, that's Kaio-Kenx2. There is a Kaio-Kenx1. When he fought Vegeta a year earlier he used Kaio-Kenx1 at first. Kaio-Kenx2 doubled his power and Kaio-Kenx3 pushed Goku's power over 24,000. Apparently Vegeta's Gallet Gun's power level must have been over 30,000 because Goku had to go up to Kaio-Kenx4 to overcome Vegeta's beam. If there was no Kaio-Kenx1 then the term "Kaio-Kenx2" would be redundant.
@A86 of course there is a kaioken times 1. thats what doubles. its officially stated and i think even goku said it doubles the amount of energy. kaioken x 2 is a "hole". and wiki's arent always reliable. we never saw gohan really transform and snap. trunks was doing the same thing. he was trying to get angry but couldn't do it. He became one because gohan died and snapped. not cause he NEEDED it. in the manga though, trunks was a super saiyan before gohan died.
@1stnaruto - "we never saw gohan really transform and snap"
Yes we did:
/watch?v=yurxD57f-w4
Gohan wasn't even angry when he transformed. He was in a state of desperation because he was about to die and he realized the world needs him to be there to fight Cell. There are also scenes of him trying to go SSJ earlier. Anger and rage never really allowed him to transform. Only one time did it allow to transform - for like half a second. Vegeta also transformed out of desperation.
@1stnaruto - "it doesnt matter if they're in imminent danger or not. They go SSj with a certain amount of anger."
It's not that simple. The Cell Saga showed that's not necessarily true. Watch Gohan's attempts to become a SSJ in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Goku taught Gohan first hand that you can't become a Super Saiyan simply by getting really mad and raising your power. It comes in response to a need. The way Vegeta turned SSJ also proved this (his life was in danger from a meteor shower).
@1stnaruto - "because gohan was getting angry just because"
He tried that several times in the Hypberbolic Time Chamber. It never worked. He came close and went SSJ for a fraction of a second one time just by getting really worked up and angry remembering all the times people got hurt while he was helpless but that was it. Gohan didn't truly go SSJ until Goku put his life in danger by launching a SSJ-powered Kamehameha wave at Gohan. Gohan went SSJ in response to a NEED, just like Goku said.
@1stnaruto - Gohan went SSJ because he was 2 seconds away from being killed by Goku's Kamehameha. Similar to Vegeta going SSJ in response to the prospect of being stranded on a barren planet (or moon) due to a heavy meteor shower, and likely killed. Goku was not only angry and grief-stricken when he went SSJ but seconds away from Frieza likely kiling him and his own son like he did Krillin. I guess Future Trunks also had a need, a need for a new SSJ now that the world's only one (Gohan) is dead.
@A86 vegeta went ssj cause he SNAPPED. thats what has you go super saiyan. vegeta was training and the dub added the narrarating. he was just training. he didn't care about anything at that point. That's the only thing the dub was right on when they added more dialogue. and vegeta even said he didn't care at that moment when he was hurt from the shockwave
@1stnaruto - Vegeta snapped because he realized he was about to die, but he also had rage at his inability to ascend. Some rage is needed but rage alone has never allowed anyone to go SSJ. They also showed Future Trunks trying to go SSJ in the Trunks Special on rage alone - like Present Gohan it only made his hair turn gold for half a second. That's all. He transformed later in response to a need to be a SSJ now that Gohan is dead and there was no else to fight the Androids.
@1stnaruto - Well, Gohan was angry when he transformed but he was far more concerned/desperate than angry. Future Gohan said something to Trunks that was similar to what Present Goku said to Present Gohan. I remember he told Future Trunks that to become a SSJ the "dam has to break" (paraphrasing) emotionally and in response to some kind of need.
@1stnaruto - I'd also say the way Goku transformed in the Cooler movie proved that. He wasn't able to go SSJ until he felt an overwhelming need to not only stop Cooler but bring back innocent lives he took (like that dead bird). But, Saiyans seem to eventually be able to just go SSJ at will after doing it enough times and training with the form. Like Goku being able to go SSJ over something as trivial as showing off while taking a bath with Gotenks.
@A86 Movies are non-canon to the true storyline. the cooler movie is just a movie thats similar to the freeza arc. when it comes to that movie, it shows goku hasn't trained his body to go super saiyan. The only levels that don't require anger are SSJ3 and SSJ4.
@1stnaruto - You're right about the movies (though the movies still follow internal DBZ-logic), but the rest of what I said stands. All characters have spoken of need being more important than rage for achieving SSJ1. At least for the first time or first few times. It appears similar with SSJ2. You're right about SSJ3 and SSJ4 though. SSJ3 seems to just require intense concentration and physical conditioning after mastering SSJ1 (and presumably mastering SSJ2 as well).
@1stnaruto - LOL! I agree with you there too. I hate how the writers just seemed to forget about the SSJ2 form after the SSJ2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta battle. There's a theory that Gotenks could go SSJ2 but just went past it because Piccolo pressured him to stop wasting time and use his full power. When he transforms his hair stands higher on end and there is bio-electricity for a few seconds. That MAY have been a glimpse of his SSJ2 form....maybe...
@1stnaruto - Just looked at the video. His hair stood higher on end for several seconds and the spikes spaced out significantly further while his body emitted electricity. That looks like it may have been his SSJ2 form, but it was only shown for like 10 seconds. :(
I think the last time we EVER see the form is when Goku goes SSJ2 for like 2 seconds while powering up to SSJ3 against Baby in DBGT (after he gets his tail back).
@1stnaruto - I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out! Still, SSJ2 is almost nonexistent in DBGT. Yet another thing that pissed me off about the series.
And honestly, as many years as it's been you'd think Goten and Trunks would at least be able to go SSJ2 if not SSJ3. They were already able to go SSJ3 as kids when they fused (though it kind of implied that they couldn't go SSJ3 on their own separately as kids). :/
@1stnaruto - Yeah, but that sucks in terms of plot! :/ At least have some saga where they have to train and up their power levels and abilities. DBGT was botched in how it handled every character except Goku. Well, even Goku (I didn't like the idea of him being a kid the entire series except for his SSJ4 form). But, I guess DBGT is what happens when you indulge viewers who only want to see Goku save the day. I think Yu Yu Hakusho (one of my other favorites) handled supporting characters better.
@1stnaruto - It's possible that perhaps upon going SSJ the first time it gives a higher yield in power increase the first time around than it does with subsequent uses. Goku's transformation might have also given him such a high yield because of how distressed he was (Krillin killed after he was already grieving the death of Vegeta and his friends and son being hurt by the Ginyu Force). He may also have more potential than Trunks, or at least Goku's potential was more expressed at the time.
@1stnaruto - I forgot that at the time Goku went SSJ Piccolo might have just died in front of him a few minutes earlier for all he knew at the time (when Frieza shot him); and the moment he transformed he was facing the imminent death of himself and his son Gohan. When Future Trunks transformed he was in severe anger and grief over Gohan's death but not in any imminent danger like Goku was facing from Frieza. The SSJ state is largely a response to a need, as Goku said.
1) DBZ is called Dragon Ball Z because it focuses on the adventures of THE Z FORCE. Regardless of goku being the main focus.
2) DBGT was no longer about the Z Force and was created in a more Dragonball style fashion. In other words goku is reliving his life but with all the experience of a warrior.
Quit trying to think DBZ made the series and is the only true Dragon Ball story
@TheRadicalRyushin pff. your just lazy. dbzepisodes has subbed gt. why would you say i have no valid argument and pulling shit out of my ass when you dont even know there is subbed gt? you fail. and no its not the same.
@hotwhire I don't get why do they hate vegeta so much? Vegeta should of killed majin buu all 3 forms of him and he deserved to go SS3 before goku the directors are just dicks to this character. Also cell should of died when vegeta preformed that final flash!
This what would had happened if GT had followed any logic at all.
Android Power Levels never increase. Thus when Super Android 17 says he is twice as powerful as he was before, it means he is twice as powerful as 17 and 17 is as powerful as he was from the Cell Saga.
Does anyone get it now? It does make sense now that this attack would have killed Super 17.
@TheRadicalRyushin Technically 17+17 = First or second form cell >_> they could have at least called this guy android 34...The only thing I like about super 17 was his design and attacks. If this was Z SSj3 Goku should have killed him
@TheRadicalRyushin he meant fusion. and super 17 is not twice as strong as before. hes as strong as ssj4 meaning hell fighter 17 wasnt exactly the same strength as the original 17. it makes sense that it failed
Two Android 17s would be like less than half of Perfect Cell's Power.
Imperfect Cell is like equal to two or more Android 17s, this is clear by how powerful he is and how easily he beats up 17. He also makes Piccolo look like a joke in their second fight.
When he absorbs an android, he simply add his power by their own. So Semi-Perfect Cell is Imperfect Cell + 17 and Perfect Cell is Imperfect Cell + 17 + 18. Super Perfect Cell is basically Perfect Cell x 2.
@TheRadicalRyushin everyone in gt is way stronger than in dbz. for one, general rildo, a low level gt villain is stronger than kid buu and base goku still owned him. then goku said baby vegeta was stronger than vegito. even the lowest villains in gt >> strongest fighters in dbz. you know nothing.
@054martinm when did goku say baby vegeta was stronger than vegito not only is that impossible since vegito is the strongest person in all DBZ/GT, i watched the baby saga and never heard anything related to fusion and even if he did thats a lie
@Truesky44 no its not impossible. goku stated that second form baby vegeta is the strongest ki goku ever felt. assuming he knows vegettos power, then yeah. i like how you say its a lie based on your bullshit assumptions and wishing vegetto was stronger than ssj4 gogeta, the true strongest person.
@054martinm no it is impossible vegeto was the strongest fighter to ever exist since, potara is more powerful than fusion dance. Goku doesnt not no vegetos power since hes never fought or seen vegeto. Obviously gogeta was stronger hes ssj4 if vegeto was ssj4 hed be stronger making him the strongest fighter. Its only because he didnt reach that form that you can say gogetas stronger
@Truesky44 potara is the same as the dance except for the time limit. gogeta ssj4 is the strongest power ever. and no it is possible. the episode where goku says baby vegetas the strongest ki hes ever felt is right there. check it out if you want. but vegetto is NOT ssj4 so he cant be strongest. sure if he did reach it then hed still be equal. its like saying "turles is stronger than trunks because turles can ONE DAY reach ssj4 and trunks cant therefore turles > trunks" its utter idiocy.
@054martinm ur kidding elder kai already said fusion potaras far are stronger. and no thats not the same at all vegeto ssj is stronger than gogeta ssj so if they both were ssj4 vegeto would be stronger. turles is not stronger than trunks at normal state so its not the same. im sayin if they are at the same ssj level vegetto will always be stronger making him the strongest character in dbz. vegeto is 100x stronger than ssj3 goku and ssj3 goku was puttin up a fight against baby but he lacked the
@054martinm no its not ELDER KAI already said potaras is far stronger how do you not understand that. k u obviously arent takin in what im sayin cause your repeatin the same thing again. i know Goku said baby vegetas ki is the strongest hes ever felt and thats becuz hes never felt gogetas or vegetos
@054martinm body to keep going otherwise it would've been a tie or sumthin. vegeto on the other handle would completely destroy baby becuz hes atleast 20x stronger than ssj3 goku. meaning vegeto is stronger than baby
Super 17's exact words: "I am twice the man I once were." - Reference and translation - "I am twice the man I was before I fused." Androids never get more powerful being as they are. Android 18 is as powerful as she was during the Cell Saga. Android 17 is likewise. Therefore, everyone in GT is way weaker and Buuhan could decimate Super 17.
You know that is impossible given there is no Japanese version on Youtube or on the internet.
So, basically... you are trying to pull shit out of your ass and without a valid Japanese version available on the internet to use like I had used the Funimation version, you pretty much have nothing.
Also, the Japanese version is practically the same. Super 17 pretty much also references that his power has merely doubled.
As is revealed after the end of the fight, the real Android 17's psyche gives the Z Fighters a chance to destroy the super android, and both Android and Hell Fighter 17 in the process. While under control, he forced his transformed-self to reveal his own weak point, thus allowing Goku to kill him.
Interestingly, according to Akira Toriyama Android 19 and Dr. Gero were originally meant to be the androids which Future Trunks foretold of, however his editor decided that the two looked outdated and ridiculous, and so rather than make them the final androids he opted to continue the saga in favor of androids 17 and 18.
No they werent, the could fucked up the whole sayajin gang.
It was just re-written that those elitarian sayajins and half-sayajins get an unbelievable power in this room chamber they never could get anytime before, when they were on their trainings.
Akira even didnt do whatever he like, because his editorial office, which bring out his books, told him what he have to do to bring DBZ on.
DBZ should ended after Book 30, but the ditorial office of A.K. brought him to Book 42.
It is utter BS that Vegeta doesn't keep his tail when he is transformed into a SSJ4 (which has a tail)- the ONLY thing stopping him from reaching SSJ4 was not having a tail. Surely Bulma could conceive of a way to get him to regrow it permanently. Anyway, had Vegeta used Final Shine as a SSJ4, that would have probably been the result.
@bamskull well he did surpass everyone at the end better as a ss4 then ss4 go or gogeta at the end all real gt fansd relised the slight brief showing of when vegeta surpassed ss4 gogeta at the end
@bamskull it does so did goku the end of gt is 100 years later see so goku n vegeta had 100 years to train get it. i know ALLOOOT OF DBZ SECRETS LIEK THAT:)
@bamskull no he wasnt pan lived to be past 100 n she's not even half saiyan vegeta is full saiyan your jsut pulling stuff out your ass to act cool stop it n grow up nobody likes a lair.
@zagon2 ok yor clearly an idiot and know nothing about the series. every 1 here reading can see yor comments so u shud stop making a fool of yorself. pan lived 100 years but she is the ONLY 1 left besides goku. every 1 else is said to be dead. y dont u go watch the gt special hero's legacy and u will see. know wot u r talking about before spreading facts like a dumbass.
@bamskull your the idiot nobody was said to be dead bulma most likely died but uub n vegeta coulnt be dead how old age bs moron n the speicial like all the movies doesnt intertwin with the series moron lol or chiatzu would be a king like in the db movie dumbass they r jsut what ifs thats not even how goku jr became ssj its unknown
@zagon2 ITS NOT UNKOWN U STUPID JACKASS. just go and watch the fukin series properly then u will see the fact. and ALL the z fighters were dead apart from pan and goku. heros legacy DOES intervene with gt cuz its NOT A DAM MOVIE, its a fukin tv special, in other words an extra continuation of the events. the movie even explains how goku jr became a super saiyan. yor such a fukin dumb piece of crap. dont bother commenting unless u actually have REAL facts which exist rather than making up BS
@bamskull you should listen to your own advice moron they didnt ever die vegeta wouldnt die moron n the tv speicials dont either moron then how would veegta die huh some burgler shot him your so stupid with your flaw facts well theries well actually jsut bs lol
@zagon2 moron, moron, moron. its all a moron like u can say LOL we all can see yor an idiot and u obviously dont know shit about the db series with yor own little 5 year old dillusion facts. yor full of shit and dont know the actual truth of the matters and like to add yor own bullshit to things and think its true. so its really a waste of time arguing with a jackass like u. i bet wen yor in school u like to make up bullshit like 2+2=6 and then try convincing the teacher its true XD faggot
@054martinm aren't you the same way? excuse me if im wrong but arent you one of those kids who spread lies like gt was made by toei n not toriyama jsut becuase it had no mana which is a obvious lie.
This is what should have happened. I fucking hate how they made Vegeta's attacks weaker than they should have been. Remember the Final Flash against Perfect Cell? That should have annihilated him.
@supermandan85 We dont see it in the anime but i heard in the manga he actually moves out the way because he realizes at the end it would have killed him
the dragon ball series story really ended at the end of dragon ball z... GT just doesn't make sense and it's the small things like "I admire your ability to die" kinda crappy lines that make it crap
Dragonball GT only sucks because Akira Toriyama didn't write the story like he did for DBZ,he only helped out with his artwork and designs of the characters
Rastasskate2 1 month ago
Final flash is better and way more badass, this just seems like the writers were lazy.
SondeBeeches 1 month ago
yh but look goku ssj4 gohan ssj2 trunks ssj goten ssj vegeta ssj2 er everyone at least should be power ful enough to go ssj3 atleast even if you want to make goku the strongest why make vegeta skip 2 sjj levels to and use a machine to go ssj4 it was very upsetting
Blackwizardbb 1 month ago
wtf happened to "Final Flash" this 'final shine attack' sounds so retarded... augh!
shyebean 1 month ago
SSj vegeta should've been able to defeat super 17. His strength was 50 time's stronger than his base form. FINAL SHINE ATTACK!
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - While that happened for Goku the first time he went SSJ we don't know if that continues to happen for the SSJ form as they continue to train. I would imagine not since according to the Daizenshuu the SSJ3 form is only 3-4 times more powerful than the SSJ2 form and the SSJ2 form is only 2 or 3 times more powerful than the SSJ1 form. My theory is that going SSJ may raise their base power over time, making the difference difference less drastic.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 the power is different if they continue to train but the amount of times it highers it remains at 50 times with SSj2 being 100X and SSJ3 being 400X
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - I'm not so sure about that. Goku has held relatively his own against some villains in his Base form while being more powerful than the villain in his SSJ form, but still vulnerable. If it always gives him a 50x boost then occurrences like that would make no sense, but they happen nonetheless. Like Vegetto being somewhat vulnerable to Super Buu even after going SSJ. If he became 50x more powerful that would make absolutely no sense.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 you realize that vegeto was NEVER vulnerable against gohan boo? he was toying with him so much. boo was a joke to him. not to mention he was way stronger already in his base form. He actually never got hit. in the anime they did that to prolong the fight and of course cause of the manga. He was too strong for him
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - He was indeed already stronger than Buu in his Base form but Buu did still pose a bit of a limited threat to him. He looked worried/unsure when Super Buu pulled out that planet-crushing energy ball and Super Buu was able to get a few hits in on Vegetto and smack him around a bit in his Base form. As a SSJ Vegetto was in limited danger when Super Buu went berserk and started destroying the universe. He actually had to put some effort into breaking Buu's energy barrier.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Also, throughout the fight even though Vegetto very obviously had the upper hand Old Kai never relaxed like Kaoibito did. Old Kai kept pointing out that Buu was still not totally harmless to Vegetto and he could still win if Vegetto wasn't careful.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 Old kai didnt relax cause boo could kill him if he was totally off his guard. the only time he was off guard was when he got turned into candy and that was the sort of thing old kai feared. And even though he smacked him around in his base form. vegeto wasn't hurt in the least bit. it was just a way to get his "blood flowing" XD. that thing with the universe was anime only. sometimes those things mess up how strong the characters are and sometimes no. boo went ALL OUT with the barrier.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Vegetto wasn't truly off-guard when Buu absorbed him. He allowed Buu to do it on purpose (or so Vegetto claimed) so he could get inside Buu and take out the others. I guess that makes sense since he knew there would be no other way to rescue the others. Destroying Buu would destroy them.
Vegetto was never hurt too bad but Buu did have a limited ability to hurt him a little (something Vegetto admitted when Super Buu used several beams on him with those Ghosts).
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Which wouldn't make sense if Vegetto's power increased 50fold. If Vegetto's powers increased that much then it would be damn near impossible for Buu to each TOUCH Vegetto, let alone be quick enough to catch him off-guard. That would be like a human running fast enough to evade detection by a motion-sensing camera. That scene where Super Buu managed to hold back Vegetto with his berserk energy field (Vegetto had to actually exert some effort) would have also been impossible.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Not to mention other things in DBZ like Goku withstanding some attacks from Cooler in his Base form but still being vulnerable to some of his attacks as a SSJ, Future Trunks being able to phase the Androids a little as a preteen in his Base form but still being less powerful than them as a SSJ, etc. Those occurrences don't make sense if their power goes up 50x each time. If Trunks could get the best of 18 for a second in his Base form, a 50x boost should put his power above hers.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 It's still a fact that their froms increase their strength that amount of times. stuff happens. go by the manga and it makes sense.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - It did for Goku that one time but we don't know if it does that every other time. In DBZ character's power levels increase by different amounts depending on their emotional state and potential. Not all fighters have the same potential and they're not always in the same intensity of emotional state when they go SSJ. According to the same files Future Trunks' Base power as a preteen was 3-4,000,000 and only goes to 17,000,000 at SSJ1 (20,000,000 when he came back in the Android Saga).
A86 2 months ago
@A86 those are phony files you're reading. haha. Trunks was above 150,000,000 when he came back to kill freeza. Goku was 150 mil on namek as a ssj and freeza was 120 mil at 100% and trunks' power was greater than that when he got to that timeline. that overrules anything about not being the same. trunks wouldnt have a chance at 17 mil or 10 mil. So yeah, that says its always the same. it doesnt matter if they're in imminent danger or not. They go SSj with a certain amount of anger. thats it.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - What are you reading? So far I've seen none for what SSJ Trunks' power was other than one reading at 17 million and another at 20 million. The Daizenshuu gave a power level of 150 million for Goku as a SSJ but, like other level charts before it, the Daizenshuu is flawed in its own ways. It makes Goku's power jump from 180,000 to 3,000,000 (an almost 17fold increase) just from the beating he took from Cap. Ginyu while Vegeta was trashed by Zarbon but only went from 24,000 to 35,000.
A86 2 months ago
Comment removed
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - The Daizenshuu also has 2nd Form Frieza at >1,000,000 but makes his power jumpt to a ridiculous 120,000,000 at From 4 (33%). This huge leap seems to be based on an English anime dub mistranslation where they made Form 2 Frieza (whose power was over 1,000,000) claim that he was only using 1% of his power. Many American fans knew that was dialogue English dubbers added (not an original line in the Jap audio) but this line may have stuck in some minds.
A86 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@A86 Goku's ssj lvl WAS 150 mil. goku's level wasn't 180 thou. thats the level with Kaio-Ken. His real power level was only 80 to 90,000. Ginyu was stronger. Goku's strength has always been stated to be natural talented. Vegeta went from that level to the same level as freeza after getting the senzu. He was thrashed that badly. and then went to around a mil after dende healed him. Vegeta beat goku's body pretty badly too. trunks' power wasn't that low. The ssj goku levels aren't flawed.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - "goku's level wasn't 180 thou"
I think you need to re-read the Daizenshuu power levels. It clearly has has max power after landing on Planet Namek as "180,000". That's his max power after training on the way over to the planet. It lists his power as 3,000,000 after healing (a ridiculous 17x increase just from being beaten up in Ginyu's body). It lists his Kaio-Kenx10 power as 30,000,000 and x20 as 60,000,000. Then SSJ1 as 150,000,000.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 yeah the bottom powerlevels are correct. the above no no no. Goku's aura is white. his kai-ken red. and he clearly yells Kaio-ken when powering up. the reason it says 180,000 is b/c that was the highest he went before he got his body beat up. Goku could've gone 10x but didnt and that would've made his power spike to 900,000.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - That's true, his aura did turn red. But it seemed he only used Kaio-Kenx1. If so then Goku's max power was 120,000. If it was only 90,000 he would have needed Kaio-Kenx2 to get a power level of 180,000. If his true max power was 120,000 (equal with Cap. Ginyu) Kaio-Kenx10 would yield 1,200,000.
I still think they flubbed after this point. An earlier chart had Goku's power as "300,000" after healing. A much more reasonable increase following how Saiyan power seems to behave.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - You can read about it here:
dragonball (.) wikia (.) com / wiki/ List _ of _ Power _ Levels
There's seems to be a Kaio-Kenx1. However, the article on Kaio-Ken notes that there is an inconsistency with listings for x1 and x2. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. DBZ power levels are notorious for inconsistencies and logical errors.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 Freeza's level was 120 mil at 100%. 60 mil at 50%. around 3 or 3.5 mil at 1% final form.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Goku's power had bursts of 60,000-90,000 against Burter, Jeice and Recoome but he didn't use his full power. Goku unleashed his full power against Cap. Ginyu. At most he may have used Kaio-Kenx1 (which increases the user's max power by 50%, Kaio-Kenx2 doubles their max power, a 100% increase). If he used Kaio-Kenx1 against Ginyu then his max power was actually 120,000 (if 180,000 was his Kaio-Kenx1 power, a 50% increase over 120,000).
A86 2 months ago
@A86 kaioken DOUBLES. Kaioken x3 TRIPLES. kaioken x2 is a thing that was never fully explained and therefore we really dont know how much it increases by. ginyu knew gokus real level which was arounf 85 to 90 thou. kaioken = 180 thou. Boom.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - "kaioken DOUBLES"
No, that's Kaio-Kenx2. There is a Kaio-Kenx1. When he fought Vegeta a year earlier he used Kaio-Kenx1 at first. Kaio-Kenx2 doubled his power and Kaio-Kenx3 pushed Goku's power over 24,000. Apparently Vegeta's Gallet Gun's power level must have been over 30,000 because Goku had to go up to Kaio-Kenx4 to overcome Vegeta's beam. If there was no Kaio-Kenx1 then the term "Kaio-Kenx2" would be redundant.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 of course there is a kaioken times 1. thats what doubles. its officially stated and i think even goku said it doubles the amount of energy. kaioken x 2 is a "hole". and wiki's arent always reliable. we never saw gohan really transform and snap. trunks was doing the same thing. he was trying to get angry but couldn't do it. He became one because gohan died and snapped. not cause he NEEDED it. in the manga though, trunks was a super saiyan before gohan died.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - "we never saw gohan really transform and snap"
Yes we did:
/watch?v=yurxD57f-w4
Gohan wasn't even angry when he transformed. He was in a state of desperation because he was about to die and he realized the world needs him to be there to fight Cell. There are also scenes of him trying to go SSJ earlier. Anger and rage never really allowed him to transform. Only one time did it allow to transform - for like half a second. Vegeta also transformed out of desperation.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - "it doesnt matter if they're in imminent danger or not. They go SSj with a certain amount of anger."
It's not that simple. The Cell Saga showed that's not necessarily true. Watch Gohan's attempts to become a SSJ in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Goku taught Gohan first hand that you can't become a Super Saiyan simply by getting really mad and raising your power. It comes in response to a need. The way Vegeta turned SSJ also proved this (his life was in danger from a meteor shower).
A86 2 months ago
@A86 because gohan was getting angry just because. He needs to get angry and snap. like really snap. ssj2 requires much much more than that.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - "because gohan was getting angry just because"
He tried that several times in the Hypberbolic Time Chamber. It never worked. He came close and went SSJ for a fraction of a second one time just by getting really worked up and angry remembering all the times people got hurt while he was helpless but that was it. Gohan didn't truly go SSJ until Goku put his life in danger by launching a SSJ-powered Kamehameha wave at Gohan. Gohan went SSJ in response to a NEED, just like Goku said.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Gohan went SSJ because he was 2 seconds away from being killed by Goku's Kamehameha. Similar to Vegeta going SSJ in response to the prospect of being stranded on a barren planet (or moon) due to a heavy meteor shower, and likely killed. Goku was not only angry and grief-stricken when he went SSJ but seconds away from Frieza likely kiling him and his own son like he did Krillin. I guess Future Trunks also had a need, a need for a new SSJ now that the world's only one (Gohan) is dead.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 vegeta went ssj cause he SNAPPED. thats what has you go super saiyan. vegeta was training and the dub added the narrarating. he was just training. he didn't care about anything at that point. That's the only thing the dub was right on when they added more dialogue. and vegeta even said he didn't care at that moment when he was hurt from the shockwave
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Vegeta snapped because he realized he was about to die, but he also had rage at his inability to ascend. Some rage is needed but rage alone has never allowed anyone to go SSJ. They also showed Future Trunks trying to go SSJ in the Trunks Special on rage alone - like Present Gohan it only made his hair turn gold for half a second. That's all. He transformed later in response to a need to be a SSJ now that Gohan is dead and there was no else to fight the Androids.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Well, Gohan was angry when he transformed but he was far more concerned/desperate than angry. Future Gohan said something to Trunks that was similar to what Present Goku said to Present Gohan. I remember he told Future Trunks that to become a SSJ the "dam has to break" (paraphrasing) emotionally and in response to some kind of need.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - I'd also say the way Goku transformed in the Cooler movie proved that. He wasn't able to go SSJ until he felt an overwhelming need to not only stop Cooler but bring back innocent lives he took (like that dead bird). But, Saiyans seem to eventually be able to just go SSJ at will after doing it enough times and training with the form. Like Goku being able to go SSJ over something as trivial as showing off while taking a bath with Gotenks.
A86 2 months ago
@A86 Movies are non-canon to the true storyline. the cooler movie is just a movie thats similar to the freeza arc. when it comes to that movie, it shows goku hasn't trained his body to go super saiyan. The only levels that don't require anger are SSJ3 and SSJ4.
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - You're right about the movies (though the movies still follow internal DBZ-logic), but the rest of what I said stands. All characters have spoken of need being more important than rage for achieving SSJ1. At least for the first time or first few times. It appears similar with SSJ2. You're right about SSJ3 and SSJ4 though. SSJ3 seems to just require intense concentration and physical conditioning after mastering SSJ1 (and presumably mastering SSJ2 as well).
A86 2 months ago
@A86 i thought skipping ssj3 was dumb when gotenks did it. but i guess it sort of means SSJ3 was is the TRUE ssj2 in a way haha
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - LOL! I agree with you there too. I hate how the writers just seemed to forget about the SSJ2 form after the SSJ2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta battle. There's a theory that Gotenks could go SSJ2 but just went past it because Piccolo pressured him to stop wasting time and use his full power. When he transforms his hair stands higher on end and there is bio-electricity for a few seconds. That MAY have been a glimpse of his SSJ2 form....maybe...
It was my favorite SSJ form, dammit! D=
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Just looked at the video. His hair stood higher on end for several seconds and the spikes spaced out significantly further while his body emitted electricity. That looks like it may have been his SSJ2 form, but it was only shown for like 10 seconds. :(
I think the last time we EVER see the form is when Goku goes SSJ2 for like 2 seconds while powering up to SSJ3 against Baby in DBGT (after he gets his tail back).
A86 2 months ago
@A86 actually we see it only when he powered up against rildo when he threw that ball of metal at him. you dont see lighting but the hair was ssj2
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out! Still, SSJ2 is almost nonexistent in DBGT. Yet another thing that pissed me off about the series.
And honestly, as many years as it's been you'd think Goten and Trunks would at least be able to go SSJ2 if not SSJ3. They were already able to go SSJ3 as kids when they fused (though it kind of implied that they couldn't go SSJ3 on their own separately as kids). :/
A86 2 months ago
@A86 they're at peace and they're the guys that wouldnt do anything unless they're dads told them too. they just want to chill and shit
1stnaruto 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - Yeah, but that sucks in terms of plot! :/ At least have some saga where they have to train and up their power levels and abilities. DBGT was botched in how it handled every character except Goku. Well, even Goku (I didn't like the idea of him being a kid the entire series except for his SSJ4 form). But, I guess DBGT is what happens when you indulge viewers who only want to see Goku save the day. I think Yu Yu Hakusho (one of my other favorites) handled supporting characters better.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - It's possible that perhaps upon going SSJ the first time it gives a higher yield in power increase the first time around than it does with subsequent uses. Goku's transformation might have also given him such a high yield because of how distressed he was (Krillin killed after he was already grieving the death of Vegeta and his friends and son being hurt by the Ginyu Force). He may also have more potential than Trunks, or at least Goku's potential was more expressed at the time.
A86 2 months ago
@1stnaruto - I forgot that at the time Goku went SSJ Piccolo might have just died in front of him a few minutes earlier for all he knew at the time (when Frieza shot him); and the moment he transformed he was facing the imminent death of himself and his son Gohan. When Future Trunks transformed he was in severe anger and grief over Gohan's death but not in any imminent danger like Goku was facing from Frieza. The SSJ state is largely a response to a need, as Goku said.
A86 2 months ago
Vegeta should be able to save the day one time.
AcestarX 4 months ago
sikeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee goku killed super 17
halo6974 6 months ago
he should have pulled that shit with super buu
MegaKid0 6 months ago
and i admire your ability to dieee hahahah vegeta is the best
XspykerX 6 months ago
LOL
othus123 6 months ago
I thot super saiyan 4 vegeta was the one who does final shine
djwack1000 7 months ago
holy shit that was epic
naynay8559 7 months ago
when vegeta charged up he sounded like megaman
Xxxkujakillerxx 9 months ago
Instead of screaming "Final Shine Attack!!!" he should have screamed "It's Over 9000!!!" that would be more correct and funny :-)
ninjamasterbro 10 months ago
VEGETA OG HOME BOY
14VIGITO 10 months ago
For all you "DBGT is stoopid and dum" people.
1) DBZ is called Dragon Ball Z because it focuses on the adventures of THE Z FORCE. Regardless of goku being the main focus.
2) DBGT was no longer about the Z Force and was created in a more Dragonball style fashion. In other words goku is reliving his life but with all the experience of a warrior.
Quit trying to think DBZ made the series and is the only true Dragon Ball story
Avalajawa 11 months ago
muuuucchhhh better!!!:[) love it
phoenix7540 1 year ago
God...
GT sucks so bad!
TNRLovesToDance 1 year ago
hahahahaha good! hahaahaha
PoroPoroPoroPopito 1 year ago
fake
lorenasolorio247 1 year ago
Yes!
Triniprince722 1 year ago
SAAAAAD FOR YOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUU, SUPER 17!!!!!!!
SirReallyNoOne 1 year ago
This is how Super 17 Really Died !
CrucisJon 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin pff. your just lazy. dbzepisodes has subbed gt. why would you say i have no valid argument and pulling shit out of my ass when you dont even know there is subbed gt? you fail. and no its not the same.
054martinm 1 year ago
I am hardly as lazy as someone who doesn't even spend the time to type English properly. You are way lazier than me.
You have no valid argument without evidence and you have no evidence if you cannot provide a valid link to find them.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin im on youtube, not at school. fool.
054martinm 1 year ago
I know, that is why you need to go back to school. Fool. LOL!
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
I made new end for Piccolo Masenko imperfect Cell
Bertjanbjn
bertjanbjn 1 year ago
Now that's more fucking like it!
Shibidywow 1 year ago
officialy the best comeback ever
I admire your ability to DDDIIIIEEEEEE.
adamxero 1 year ago 2
Yeah, this is the true ending.. Don't say that Vegeta is weak!
DragonUltraMaster 1 year ago
Big Bang attack+Final Flash=Final Shine Attack=The only attack better than any DBZ move.
drakebudasz 1 year ago
q loco
viidiass9 1 year ago
bravo to whoever wrote vegeta's killer phrases
1. "And I admire your ability to die!"
2. "Welcome to Oblivion!"
3. "You ignorant clown!"
4. "Tear you apart and toss you to the wind!"
5. "I like my pancakes veeeerrrry flat"
6."How did you get so strong?" Vegeta's answer: "I do a lot of push ups and sit ups. and drink plenty of juice"..haha..sarcastic bastard
and of course 6. "It's over 9000!"
.......Amen, enough said
martiallaw04 1 year ago 2
@martiallaw04 Ikr. Gotta love'em.
TheColosseum09 1 year ago
@martiallaw04 I like my pancakes veeerrry flat, UNDERSTAAAAAAAAND?
Vader3123 1 year ago
isn't it final flash not final shine
bententoma 1 year ago
@bententoma this attack is more powerful than final flash u could find this attack on dbz wiki
surgautas 1 year ago
I love the sound of this move.
JoanTBrye 1 year ago
I think Vegeta should have killed him then he some how transforms into Super Buu by regening himself,like in Budokai 2.
So Vegeta kills Majin Buu and Super Buu is left behind.
drakebudasz 1 year ago
Why would Vegeta use an attack called "Final Shine," what happened to final flash?
Tstorm842 1 year ago
@Tstorm842 That attack pwnd to much for GT :P
KingHarkinian 1 year ago
@Tstorm842 That attack pwnd to much for GT :P
.. + the power for that attack was in the upper part of his hair.. -_-
KingHarkinian 1 year ago
@KingHarkinian LMAO!!!
ArnulfoSalgado 1 year ago
@Tstorm842 Final Shine is stronger...
ArnulfoSalgado 1 year ago
In Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3 Final hien Attack is like,HOLY SHIT!!!every time Vegeta uses it I shit my self,even when I`m Vegeta.
drakebudasz 1 year ago
And I, admire YOUR abillity to die!! Final Shine Attack!!! pure badassness I love it :P
FlashXLR 1 year ago
The way it should have been, Vegeta is way cooler than Goku :D
Generalwalrus 1 year ago
Flash>Shine
MrLAYER2009 1 year ago 2
awesome!!!
01karlsilver 1 year ago
vegeta admires 3 peoples ability to DIE!!!
tintindo123 1 year ago 40
@tintindo123 hahaha the "Dislikes" jokes are always hilarious.
Thumbs up.
cthgff435 1 year ago
Thats the hidden ending that They never wanted to release cause Vegeta actually wins. And Goku is no where to be found.
hotwhire 1 year ago 42
@hotwhire I don't get why do they hate vegeta so much? Vegeta should of killed majin buu all 3 forms of him and he deserved to go SS3 before goku the directors are just dicks to this character. Also cell should of died when vegeta preformed that final flash!
insane4342 1 year ago
@insane4342 Vegeta was a plot device, thats why he always fights first just to get beat up.
Should he have fought Super Buu before Gotenks as Majin, I say yes
Should he have beaten Cell? Yes.
Should he go Super saiyan 3 no.
hotwhire 1 year ago
@insane4342 hes not the hero thats why.
054martinm 1 year ago
@hotwhire rreally?
Bigchriztian01 1 year ago
This what would had happened if GT had followed any logic at all.
Android Power Levels never increase. Thus when Super Android 17 says he is twice as powerful as he was before, it means he is twice as powerful as 17 and 17 is as powerful as he was from the Cell Saga.
Does anyone get it now? It does make sense now that this attack would have killed Super 17.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin Technically 17+17 = First or second form cell >_> they could have at least called this guy android 34...The only thing I like about super 17 was his design and attacks. If this was Z SSj3 Goku should have killed him
hotwhire 1 year ago
@hotwhire Android 17+ Android 17 = Android 34 ??
What a lame logic - -
acharaish 1 year ago
@acharaish just like GT
hotwhire 1 year ago
@hotwhire its fusion, so 17+17:2
or wellit was just 17^2 and still super, besides 34 would be an open space if there was made more.
supervegito2277 1 year ago
@hotwhire but this isnt 17 + 17 so your theory doesnt matter
054martinm 1 year ago
Read my comment and the video I have recommended you to watch.
Android 18: "You sicken me, you are half the man you once were." (Reference to when 17 was good)
Super 17: "How do you figure that one out. I am twice as strong now." (Reference to when 17 was good)
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@054martinm it was a joke.....
hotwhire 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin he meant fusion. and super 17 is not twice as strong as before. hes as strong as ssj4 meaning hell fighter 17 wasnt exactly the same strength as the original 17. it makes sense that it failed
054martinm 1 year ago
You need to watch that fight over again when 17 was talking 18.
watch?v=bOk41L0GvwU&feature=related
Watch it from 0:30 to 0:40
Super 17: "I am twice as strong now."
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin he should still not be as strong as Cell
hotwhire 1 year ago
Two Android 17s would be like less than half of Perfect Cell's Power.
Imperfect Cell is like equal to two or more Android 17s, this is clear by how powerful he is and how easily he beats up 17. He also makes Piccolo look like a joke in their second fight.
When he absorbs an android, he simply add his power by their own. So Semi-Perfect Cell is Imperfect Cell + 17 and Perfect Cell is Imperfect Cell + 17 + 18. Super Perfect Cell is basically Perfect Cell x 2.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin except all that is pointles. this isnt just two 17s both at the same level. hell fighter 17 is around ssj3 gokus level.
054martinm 1 year ago
You don't know that and you cannot support it either.
Everyone in GT is way weaker than they were in DBZ.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin everyone in gt is way stronger than in dbz. for one, general rildo, a low level gt villain is stronger than kid buu and base goku still owned him. then goku said baby vegeta was stronger than vegito. even the lowest villains in gt >> strongest fighters in dbz. you know nothing.
054martinm 1 year ago
Based on Funimation. You haven't ever watched the subbed episodes. HAHAHA!
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin dont presume to know what ive watched or anything about me.
054martinm 1 year ago
It is hard to presume when you've come so far as allow assumptions to be made about you.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@054martinm when did goku say baby vegeta was stronger than vegito not only is that impossible since vegito is the strongest person in all DBZ/GT, i watched the baby saga and never heard anything related to fusion and even if he did thats a lie
Truesky44 6 months ago
@Truesky44 no its not impossible. goku stated that second form baby vegeta is the strongest ki goku ever felt. assuming he knows vegettos power, then yeah. i like how you say its a lie based on your bullshit assumptions and wishing vegetto was stronger than ssj4 gogeta, the true strongest person.
054martinm 5 months ago
@054martinm no it is impossible vegeto was the strongest fighter to ever exist since, potara is more powerful than fusion dance. Goku doesnt not no vegetos power since hes never fought or seen vegeto. Obviously gogeta was stronger hes ssj4 if vegeto was ssj4 hed be stronger making him the strongest fighter. Its only because he didnt reach that form that you can say gogetas stronger
Truesky44 5 months ago
@Truesky44 potara is the same as the dance except for the time limit. gogeta ssj4 is the strongest power ever. and no it is possible. the episode where goku says baby vegetas the strongest ki hes ever felt is right there. check it out if you want. but vegetto is NOT ssj4 so he cant be strongest. sure if he did reach it then hed still be equal. its like saying "turles is stronger than trunks because turles can ONE DAY reach ssj4 and trunks cant therefore turles > trunks" its utter idiocy.
054martinm 5 months ago
@054martinm ur kidding elder kai already said fusion potaras far are stronger. and no thats not the same at all vegeto ssj is stronger than gogeta ssj so if they both were ssj4 vegeto would be stronger. turles is not stronger than trunks at normal state so its not the same. im sayin if they are at the same ssj level vegetto will always be stronger making him the strongest character in dbz. vegeto is 100x stronger than ssj3 goku and ssj3 goku was puttin up a fight against baby but he lacked the
Truesky44 5 months ago
@054martinm no its not ELDER KAI already said potaras is far stronger how do you not understand that. k u obviously arent takin in what im sayin cause your repeatin the same thing again. i know Goku said baby vegetas ki is the strongest hes ever felt and thats becuz hes never felt gogetas or vegetos
Truesky44 5 months ago
@054martinm k w.e
Truesky44 5 months ago
@054martinm body to keep going otherwise it would've been a tie or sumthin. vegeto on the other handle would completely destroy baby becuz hes atleast 20x stronger than ssj3 goku. meaning vegeto is stronger than baby
Truesky44 5 months ago
But the point being is that Super 17 is probably only as strong as Imperfect Cell.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin no super 17 is stronger than buuhan.
054martinm 1 year ago
Super 17's exact words: "I am twice the man I once were." - Reference and translation - "I am twice the man I was before I fused." Androids never get more powerful being as they are. Android 18 is as powerful as she was during the Cell Saga. Android 17 is likewise. Therefore, everyone in GT is way weaker and Buuhan could decimate Super 17.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin your mistaken in thinking the hell clone 17 is as strong as the original. majuub kills buuhan and couldnt do anything to super 17
054martinm 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin the english dub is wrong. watch japanese version
054martinm 1 year ago
You know that is impossible given there is no Japanese version on Youtube or on the internet.
So, basically... you are trying to pull shit out of your ass and without a valid Japanese version available on the internet to use like I had used the Funimation version, you pretty much have nothing.
Also, the Japanese version is practically the same. Super 17 pretty much also references that his power has merely doubled.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
Shit i wish that happen why cant vegeta kill a bad guy for once instead of goku he always hog all the glory
coldblood566 1 year ago
As is revealed after the end of the fight, the real Android 17's psyche gives the Z Fighters a chance to destroy the super android, and both Android and Hell Fighter 17 in the process. While under control, he forced his transformed-self to reveal his own weak point, thus allowing Goku to kill him.
NSshalukeUnlikeNazi 1 year ago
Interestingly, according to Akira Toriyama Android 19 and Dr. Gero were originally meant to be the androids which Future Trunks foretold of, however his editor decided that the two looked outdated and ridiculous, and so rather than make them the final androids he opted to continue the saga in favor of androids 17 and 18.
NSshalukeUnlikeNazi 1 year ago
@NSshalukeUnlikeNazi yeah and 17 and 18 were "just kids" so akira made cell the villain.
054martinm 1 year ago
@054martinm
No they werent, the could fucked up the whole sayajin gang.
It was just re-written that those elitarian sayajins and half-sayajins get an unbelievable power in this room chamber they never could get anytime before, when they were on their trainings.
Akira even didnt do whatever he like, because his editorial office, which bring out his books, told him what he have to do to bring DBZ on.
DBZ should ended after Book 30, but the ditorial office of A.K. brought him to Book 42.
NSshalukeUnlikeNazi 1 year ago
It is utter BS that Vegeta doesn't keep his tail when he is transformed into a SSJ4 (which has a tail)- the ONLY thing stopping him from reaching SSJ4 was not having a tail. Surely Bulma could conceive of a way to get him to regrow it permanently. Anyway, had Vegeta used Final Shine as a SSJ4, that would have probably been the result.
sonbuhitsunei 1 year ago
@sonbuhitsunei agreed. vegeta is one of those who deserved WAY more justice in the series.
bamskull 1 year ago
@bamskull well he did surpass everyone at the end better as a ss4 then ss4 go or gogeta at the end all real gt fansd relised the slight brief showing of when vegeta surpassed ss4 gogeta at the end
zagon2 1 year ago
@zagon2 yor comment doesnt make sense. wot do u mean by saying ss4 vegeta surpassed ss4 gogeta??
bamskull 1 year ago
@bamskull it does so did goku the end of gt is 100 years later see so goku n vegeta had 100 years to train get it. i know ALLOOOT OF DBZ SECRETS LIEK THAT:)
zagon2 1 year ago
@zagon2 vegeta was dead 100 years after gt :)
bamskull 1 year ago
@bamskull no he wasnt pan lived to be past 100 n she's not even half saiyan vegeta is full saiyan your jsut pulling stuff out your ass to act cool stop it n grow up nobody likes a lair.
zagon2 1 year ago
@zagon2 ok yor clearly an idiot and know nothing about the series. every 1 here reading can see yor comments so u shud stop making a fool of yorself. pan lived 100 years but she is the ONLY 1 left besides goku. every 1 else is said to be dead. y dont u go watch the gt special hero's legacy and u will see. know wot u r talking about before spreading facts like a dumbass.
bamskull 1 year ago
@bamskull your the idiot nobody was said to be dead bulma most likely died but uub n vegeta coulnt be dead how old age bs moron n the speicial like all the movies doesnt intertwin with the series moron lol or chiatzu would be a king like in the db movie dumbass they r jsut what ifs thats not even how goku jr became ssj its unknown
zagon2 1 year ago
Comment removed
bamskull 1 year ago
@zagon2 ITS NOT UNKOWN U STUPID JACKASS. just go and watch the fukin series properly then u will see the fact. and ALL the z fighters were dead apart from pan and goku. heros legacy DOES intervene with gt cuz its NOT A DAM MOVIE, its a fukin tv special, in other words an extra continuation of the events. the movie even explains how goku jr became a super saiyan. yor such a fukin dumb piece of crap. dont bother commenting unless u actually have REAL facts which exist rather than making up BS
bamskull 1 year ago
@bamskull you should listen to your own advice moron they didnt ever die vegeta wouldnt die moron n the tv speicials dont either moron then how would veegta die huh some burgler shot him your so stupid with your flaw facts well theries well actually jsut bs lol
zagon2 1 year ago
Comment removed
bamskull 1 year ago
@zagon2 moron, moron, moron. its all a moron like u can say LOL we all can see yor an idiot and u obviously dont know shit about the db series with yor own little 5 year old dillusion facts. yor full of shit and dont know the actual truth of the matters and like to add yor own bullshit to things and think its true. so its really a waste of time arguing with a jackass like u. i bet wen yor in school u like to make up bullshit like 2+2=6 and then try convincing the teacher its true XD faggot
bamskull 1 year ago
@bamskull well he ended the series as the strongest...
054martinm 1 year ago
gt sucked
Kaijuno17 1 year ago
@Kaijuno17 then why did you click on this?
054martinm 1 year ago
@054martinm aren't you the same way? excuse me if im wrong but arent you one of those kids who spread lies like gt was made by toei n not toriyama jsut becuase it had no mana which is a obvious lie.
zagon2 1 year ago
@zagon2 dude shut up. What he said is true and what you said is utter bull shit now get the fuck out of here.
ArnulfoSalgado 1 year ago
This is what should have happened. I fucking hate how they made Vegeta's attacks weaker than they should have been. Remember the Final Flash against Perfect Cell? That should have annihilated him.
supermandan85 1 year ago
@supermandan85 We dont see it in the anime but i heard in the manga he actually moves out the way because he realizes at the end it would have killed him
blackw16 1 year ago
@blackw16 Interesting. Thanks.
supermandan85 1 year ago
"Final Shine Attack":means "URE OWNED"
556deadpool 1 year ago
12 people admire your abilty to die
bam095 1 year ago
did anyone else notice bamskull and blackw16's comment war down below?
u2pride64 1 year ago
@u2pride64 yes i did
bamskull 1 year ago
the dragon ball series story really ended at the end of dragon ball z... GT just doesn't make sense and it's the small things like "I admire your ability to die" kinda crappy lines that make it crap
Pepsimaximo1 1 year ago