@NeXTsikko I understand. Most people wouldn't. It is risky. Then again I've taken the NXT out on boats, up in high altitude balloons, parachuting from 80,000', and a bunch of other stuff. I've yet to break one. It *is* risky... but exciting. And with risk sometimes comes reward (like doing something no one else has done).
@redrocker232 Actually... I shouldn't ;). I do have a remote control program for this (based on the NXT of course), but the problem is what happens if your remote control fails (due to interference, or more likely distance)? If Serenity depended on remote control, it would be very easy to loose it. So the system only "listens" to the remote control when active, and if it fails to get updates, it becomes autonomous.
It's a robot, not an RC boat... and it needs to be :)
@Mindstorm971 What directions do you need? Take a look at the video, and maybe my brickshelf pages, and build your own version. Really, this isn't that mechanically complex (although I did take great troubles to make sure alomost all connections were in shear, not tension... but that's just good Technic building style).
@x1337H4X0Rx It's a nice idea - but it wouldn't actually work very well. Even a light string or fishingline will provide an additional pull on the boat that makes it hard to see if the program is working, or just being messed up by the line. I did a bunch of testing in small tubs, and then... well, if you think it works, the only way to truely prove it... is to do it. :)
@Eccohawk Neat idea... & I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. First, electrical connections pretty much *can't* be coated with this, or they'll cease to work (it's electrically nonconductive, right?). So all the ports on the NXT, motors, and sensors will have to have something placed inside them during coating, leaving them as weak points... especially with I2C communications (water will change the capacitance). & I suspect this will not work with the motors for several reasons. Good idea though.
Actually, all you have to do is make sure the electronics are in a rigid "shell", with the bottom open. As long as the "shell" doesn't tip, it can't flood (think diving bell). There are lots of other ways to waterproof this... but that goes against the "all LEGO" spirit of this project. The goal was to make something that worked, & worked right. Additionally, putting things like the motors in a bag is sort of difficult, as the drive shafts need to extend... & rotating seals are tricky.
Hi, I got a new idea for you! Do you mind adding one of those GPS sensors too? Set the longtitue, latitude, and I'm sure the correction will be slightly better. Compass + GPS, great!
Yep, that would be great... if there was a simple GPS "sensor". There's not, currently. One additional problem is that most GPS units give you the location to a coupe meters at best, which doesn't provide you with any big advantage on a pond a couple meter across (although it would help for large river crossings)
Cool! I hope I could do that with my NXT 2.0 too. Simple concepts (a good thing) that make a REALLY good idea. Of all the impressive NXT videos I have seen, you are the second (sorry). The first is a ATM machine that can reconise notes and coins, just like a real one. By the way, well done!!! Keep the string of 'victories' on!!!
Thank you. I usually don't see them as 'victories' but that's I guess because I'm not competing here; just trying out some ideas :). It looks simple, although there's a lot of carefully thought out details that allow this to work as well as it does: continuously variable CoM, wide catamaran for stability, two motors for redundancy, centered to avoid thrust difference issues, continuously (360°) turnable motors w/ no wire issues, structure that nowhere depends on simple stud connections, & more.
There are a couple of problems with this. First, it's going to be very difficult to get enough power from solar cells: those motors (and the NXT brick itself) use significant power on that level. Serenity sits too low in the water as well (one wave and it swamps).
But the biggest problem? Currents. A small current or even a light surface breeze can easily exert more force than the small efficient motors can, making forward progress (or even control) impossible.
It had two during the first set of trials, actually - one of them an indian maiden (as Lewis & Clark would tell you, always have a native guide... ;) ).
Yes, they are LEGO; they are self-contained sealed propeller units that normally hook the the underside of the boat hulls. Most recently, the appeared in the City theme #7906 Fireboat.
The point is not to preserve the NXT as an investment - it's to do something fun with it, or challenging. Here, the risk makes it that much more interesting... I had to make sure I had everything *very* right the first time I did this. And there's still a risk. See above - without risk, no reward.
Because without risk, there is rarely reward. Second, this is *tame*... one of my HALE mission payload, Lil' Joe, performed an autonomous free-fall from about 80,000'. Now THAT was risky... and even more worth it :)
I used LEGO stock underwater motors - they came with the City Fireboat set. As such, the NXT can't turn them on or off, just direct them... but that's enough.
True (although it's closer to $250 in hardware). But... no risk, no reward. It's in little danger of sinking, actually, but the risk of a program or some other failure stranding it in the middle of a lake is very real.
I already have. But it's difficult to control that way, actually - far away from shore, it's tough to see exactly which direction it's heading, and if the remote control stopped working it would be a serious problem. So it needed autonomous ability first, before "risking" remote control.
Hmm, I've not had that problem unless I'm asking the robot to BT information back to the remote (two-way communication does slow down the process significantly, unless you are careful about how you do it). I have a remote control program posted on Steve Hassenplugs website (try googling "hassenplug BTRC")
Something is wrong there. Have the BT master as the sending unit, and the receiving unit as the BT slave. I get many multiple messages per second, as you can see in my LNE/Packbot videos (mostly remote control).
I've thought of it, but it's a little bit harder, due to needing to keep everything dry. Rotating seals for things like drive shafts are tough to get right, even without depending on LEGO. The best idea I've had on that is either magnetic coupling through the pressure vessel, or a "diving bell" approach with an open bottom (but don't flip!).
No, it is certainly not waterproof. I made sure the boat would keep the NXT and other electronics above the water, and tested it... a LOT... before going for "open water" tests. No risk, no reward...
True... but the wires still have to go out, and even then the motors are exposed, or you have to seal the motors but allow for rotating seals for the shafts, etc. It's not a trivial problem.
i am hoping to get the mindstorms kit for christmas and i have a few old lego boat hulls from the early 2000's, do you think they can take the weight? also i have made my own lego boat using a very very old and faST MINDSTORMS motor. it is powered by two paddles on either side of the boat and can cruise along while carrying a 6AA battery box. i will post a vid of it in spring if you want as it is very neat being that its powered by a single motor reply please
As far as the older boat hulls being able to provide enough floatation, it depends on the weight you put on it. The NXT & a motor or two comes in at somewhere under 1.5 pounds - so try making a floatation system that can hold that much both above the water... & stable.
i would never let my nxt go on watter, and realy not like this wthout anyh protectiom
NeXTsikko 2 months ago
@NeXTsikko I understand. Most people wouldn't. It is risky. Then again I've taken the NXT out on boats, up in high altitude balloons, parachuting from 80,000', and a bunch of other stuff. I've yet to break one. It *is* risky... but exciting. And with risk sometimes comes reward (like doing something no one else has done).
brdavis5 2 months ago
you should control it with this nifty program called net bluetooth vehicle remote
redrocker232 7 months ago
@redrocker232 Actually... I shouldn't ;). I do have a remote control program for this (based on the NXT of course), but the problem is what happens if your remote control fails (due to interference, or more likely distance)? If Serenity depended on remote control, it would be very easy to loose it. So the system only "listens" to the remote control when active, and if it fails to get updates, it becomes autonomous.
It's a robot, not an RC boat... and it needs to be :)
brdavis5 7 months ago
building instructions needed plz help !!!!!!!!!!!!
Mindstorm971 11 months ago
@Mindstorm971 What directions do you need? Take a look at the video, and maybe my brickshelf pages, and build your own version. Really, this isn't that mechanically complex (although I did take great troubles to make sure alomost all connections were in shear, not tension... but that's just good Technic building style).
brdavis5 11 months ago
@brdavis5 ohk....kan try !!! waiting 4 exams to get ova !!!
Mindstorm971 11 months ago
During testing you should have attached a string to it so if for some reason the program failed you could reel it back in.
x1337H4X0Rx 1 year ago
@x1337H4X0Rx It's a nice idea - but it wouldn't actually work very well. Even a light string or fishingline will provide an additional pull on the boat that makes it hard to see if the program is working, or just being messed up by the line. I did a bunch of testing in small tubs, and then... well, if you think it works, the only way to truely prove it... is to do it. :)
brdavis5 1 year ago
very daring ;) ilike :D
lolsalad100 1 year ago
my suggestion would be to use Golden Shellback to waterproof the NXT, sensors, and possibly the servos.
Eccohawk 1 year ago
@Eccohawk Neat idea... & I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. First, electrical connections pretty much *can't* be coated with this, or they'll cease to work (it's electrically nonconductive, right?). So all the ports on the NXT, motors, and sensors will have to have something placed inside them during coating, leaving them as weak points... especially with I2C communications (water will change the capacitance). & I suspect this will not work with the motors for several reasons. Good idea though.
brdavis5 1 year ago
Put the NXT brain, motor, ect, in a bag. Not the zipper lock. And sheel it with putty.
Lostworld711 2 years ago
Actually, all you have to do is make sure the electronics are in a rigid "shell", with the bottom open. As long as the "shell" doesn't tip, it can't flood (think diving bell). There are lots of other ways to waterproof this... but that goes against the "all LEGO" spirit of this project. The goal was to make something that worked, & worked right. Additionally, putting things like the motors in a bag is sort of difficult, as the drive shafts need to extend... & rotating seals are tricky.
brdavis5 2 years ago
Hi, I got a new idea for you! Do you mind adding one of those GPS sensors too? Set the longtitue, latitude, and I'm sure the correction will be slightly better. Compass + GPS, great!
nxter2009 2 years ago
Yep, that would be great... if there was a simple GPS "sensor". There's not, currently. One additional problem is that most GPS units give you the location to a coupe meters at best, which doesn't provide you with any big advantage on a pond a couple meter across (although it would help for large river crossings)
brdavis5 2 years ago
Cool! I hope I could do that with my NXT 2.0 too. Simple concepts (a good thing) that make a REALLY good idea. Of all the impressive NXT videos I have seen, you are the second (sorry). The first is a ATM machine that can reconise notes and coins, just like a real one. By the way, well done!!! Keep the string of 'victories' on!!!
nxter2009 2 years ago
Thank you. I usually don't see them as 'victories' but that's I guess because I'm not competing here; just trying out some ideas :). It looks simple, although there's a lot of carefully thought out details that allow this to work as well as it does: continuously variable CoM, wide catamaran for stability, two motors for redundancy, centered to avoid thrust difference issues, continuously (360°) turnable motors w/ no wire issues, structure that nowhere depends on simple stud connections, & more.
brdavis5 2 years ago
Next step: Add a solar panel for power and send it round the world.
If it doesn't get eaten by anything, has good stability and can self-right, and the motor doesn't burn out... it should work.
Bloodgod40 2 years ago
There are a couple of problems with this. First, it's going to be very difficult to get enough power from solar cells: those motors (and the NXT brick itself) use significant power on that level. Serenity sits too low in the water as well (one wave and it swamps).
But the biggest problem? Currents. A small current or even a light surface breeze can easily exert more force than the small efficient motors can, making forward progress (or even control) impossible.
I do like the idea however :).
brdavis5 2 years ago
what about the nights?
maloneproduction 2 years ago
Can you put 3 or minifigs on it, almost like a crew or something? It would be neat.
softballxchick3 3 years ago
It had two during the first set of trials, actually - one of them an indian maiden (as Lewis & Clark would tell you, always have a native guide... ;) ).
brdavis5 3 years ago
what are the things under the boat (the propellors that drive the boat), are they lego? if yes from where
Eugbob 3 years ago
Yes, they are LEGO; they are self-contained sealed propeller units that normally hook the the underside of the boat hulls. Most recently, the appeared in the City theme #7906 Fireboat.
brdavis5 3 years ago
if it would sink, you lost hunderds of dollars, or euro's or whatever
Sjoerd675 3 years ago
The point is not to preserve the NXT as an investment - it's to do something fun with it, or challenging. Here, the risk makes it that much more interesting... I had to make sure I had everything *very* right the first time I did this. And there's still a risk. See above - without risk, no reward.
brdavis5 3 years ago
why RE YOU RISKING A PERFECT NXT?
transformeradict 3 years ago
Because without risk, there is rarely reward. Second, this is *tame*... one of my HALE mission payload, Lil' Joe, performed an autonomous free-fall from about 80,000'. Now THAT was risky... and even more worth it :)
brdavis5 3 years ago
Nice by the way.
55elementskater55 3 years ago
Has it got a rotation sensor so it knows when to turn back to its normal position when nocked.
55elementskater55 3 years ago
The NXT motors have built-in rotation sensors, while the orientation of the entire boat is determined by using a compass sensor.
brdavis5 3 years ago
Cool nice setup.
55elementskater55 3 years ago
what kinda of purpulsion did u use?
linuxkid274 3 years ago
I used LEGO stock underwater motors - they came with the City Fireboat set. As such, the NXT can't turn them on or off, just direct them... but that's enough.
brdavis5 3 years ago
thats your pond?
narutoulrich105 3 years ago
No actually - just a very small pond in my subdivision. I really need to test this on a bigger (& less weed-surrounded) lake.
brdavis5 3 years ago
risky..but awesome!
Dran4444 3 years ago
Thats risky becouse that $500 big thingy on it could fall in the water if it sank
jordank369 3 years ago
True (although it's closer to $250 in hardware). But... no risk, no reward. It's in little danger of sinking, actually, but the risk of a program or some other failure stranding it in the middle of a lake is very real.
brdavis5 3 years ago
You could make it remote control with another NXT and bluetooth.
FrontalTraction 4 years ago
I already have. But it's difficult to control that way, actually - far away from shore, it's tough to see exactly which direction it's heading, and if the remote control stopped working it would be a serious problem. So it needed autonomous ability first, before "risking" remote control.
brdavis5 4 years ago
I see. I made a remote control program once for my (land based) nxt robot and it was extremely slow responding.
FrontalTraction 4 years ago
Hmm, I've not had that problem unless I'm asking the robot to BT information back to the remote (two-way communication does slow down the process significantly, unless you are careful about how you do it). I have a remote control program posted on Steve Hassenplugs website (try googling "hassenplug BTRC")
brdavis5 4 years ago
It took about 1 second to respond. Single way communication actually.
FrontalTraction 4 years ago
Something is wrong there. Have the BT master as the sending unit, and the receiving unit as the BT slave. I get many multiple messages per second, as you can see in my LNE/Packbot videos (mostly remote control).
brdavis5 4 years ago
It's ok I can deal with slow responding for my robot. It's not that fast so it won't hurt if I bump it on accident.
FrontalTraction 4 years ago
I downloaded someone elses program but my robot broke a universal joint and can't steer until my order of lego pieces comes in with new u joints.
FrontalTraction 4 years ago
Good work.
ronaldmcrae 4 years ago
Awsome! The best I've done was a styrofoam block and the old 9 volt motor and a tiny propeller haha.
- Mike
Mikemc 4 years ago
cool make a submersable
Bausernameieimue 4 years ago
I've thought of it, but it's a little bit harder, due to needing to keep everything dry. Rotating seals for things like drive shafts are tough to get right, even without depending on LEGO. The best idea I've had on that is either magnetic coupling through the pressure vessel, or a "diving bell" approach with an open bottom (but don't flip!).
brdavis5 4 years ago
Wow, that's amazing. I've seen land craft and water craft... aircraft next? *dreams*
Hedgehogs4Me 4 years ago
A dirigible perhaps, but not "pure LEGO". The weight is just too large for the available LEGO motors. But somebody could prove me wrong...
brdavis5 4 years ago
someone did with a giant airplane and a lot of mony. my father.
naltsbigfannr1 4 years ago
now im going to try one with the old rcx and try it in my pool, if something goes wrong its old ne way plus easy retreval
mharten 4 years ago
Good luck! Just try to make sure the electronics (including motors) stay *very* dry :)
brdavis5 4 years ago
yea, lol my motors are lik 6 years old ne way and im prly going to put rcx in ziplock and duct tape around the part the wires come out
mharten 4 years ago
is the nxt water proof or what
alexfrias6 4 years ago
No, it is certainly not waterproof. I made sure the boat would keep the NXT and other electronics above the water, and tested it... a LOT... before going for "open water" tests. No risk, no reward...
brdavis5 4 years ago
2 words: ZIPLOCK BAGS!!! XD
MaverickHunter75 4 years ago 2
True... but the wires still have to go out, and even then the motors are exposed, or you have to seal the motors but allow for rotating seals for the shafts, etc. It's not a trivial problem.
brdavis5 4 years ago
........ plastic wrap then?
MaverickHunter75 4 years ago
i am hoping to get the mindstorms kit for christmas and i have a few old lego boat hulls from the early 2000's, do you think they can take the weight? also i have made my own lego boat using a very very old and faST MINDSTORMS motor. it is powered by two paddles on either side of the boat and can cruise along while carrying a 6AA battery box. i will post a vid of it in spring if you want as it is very neat being that its powered by a single motor reply please
g3g4g5 4 years ago
As far as the older boat hulls being able to provide enough floatation, it depends on the weight you put on it. The NXT & a motor or two comes in at somewhere under 1.5 pounds - so try making a floatation system that can hold that much both above the water... & stable.
brdavis5 4 years ago
VERY scary beta test... good result. i watch youtube to see things get messed up. but i found myself wishing you luck.
mathiacus 4 years ago
Thank you - yeah, there's a lot of of "disasters waiting to happen" on Youtube... I'm glad this isn't (so far!) one of them :)
brdavis5 4 years ago
great video you make alot of cool stuff
corvette2794 4 years ago
whoa! nice NXT boat. what did you use to propel it?
AuKiiraa 4 years ago
It uses the underwater motors that come in the City Fireboat set. Those are the orange things you can see just below the waterlne.
brdavis5 4 years ago