Of course praying to saints is unbiblical, such is with many roman catholic traditions.When I look at the roman catholic of church i see man's grip on Christanity corrupting it.Purgatory?Apocrypha?Praying to saints?Indulgences?Confessions?All are unbiblical.Jesus did not want us to confess our sins to prists, but to him himself.For he is our redeemer, not the catholic Church.The Church has been corrupted for centuries.That being said, im not against catholic people themselves.
@zeratul1356 Let's just look at one of the things you say is a corruption of Christianity: the Apocrypha, or Deuterocanon as Catholics call it. By what Authority do you claim that it is not Scripture? Ever since the Church Councils in the late fourth century proclaimed the canon of the Bible Christians have all accepted all 73 books of the Bible until a British Protestant company removed the seven books of the Deuterocanon from their printed Bibles to decrease printing costs. Feel free to check.
I could go more in depth but I will name several contradictions."2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin".Purgatory is by no means Biblical and is a tool used by the Catholic Church
@zeratul1356 I agree salvation is through Jesus's grace only. The verses you quote don't disprove that. Properly understood, those verses talk about works that God requires of us. When we have faith in God and do the works God sets out for us, God grants us his grace. This is biblical.
The problem here is that you're saying that the Deuterocanon isn't scriptural because your interpretation of it contradicts your interpretation of the NT. What about looking at the history of why it was dropped?
Yes I just watched the video of the blonde geek with no thoughts of his own trying to believe himself but the lies didnt add up to truth so yeah catholic preaching incorporates a little voodoo in with their mass. LOL NOT PERVERTS and so many with blind faith eat it right up.
great video, I would also add that if the we are not to worship angels, like John was refused to. Then why do we worship lower beings such as humans (Hebrews 2:6,7)? If we can worship humans, then shouldn't we also be able to worship angels if they are higher than us?
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving
Prayer to God - definition 2.
Prayer to saints - definition 1.
It's possible that you have a different understanding of what it is to pray than the traditional meaning, shown here in the dictionary. When we pray to saints, we're requesting for them to pray to us. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective.
@wilsonsamalex I told you what dictionary I used - it was the Merriam-Webster.
Also, we don't believe saints are omnipotent. Only God is. It doesn't require omnipotence to hear a finite number of prayers. However, God shares his divine life with us, and that's what makes it possible to do things that are otherwise impossible.
We are told to pray for one another, are we not? This is what "praying" to the saints is - asking them to pray for us. Do you object to that still? God bless.
@cburton103 Sorry I didn't mean omnipotent, but omniscient. Yes we are told to pray for one another, but never are we told to pray to someone, so that he can pray for us.
You see, you are adding to God's word, you say that we are to pray for each other (as the bible says), but then you say that we are to pray to the dead saints so that they can pray for us, but no-where does the text imply this, it just says that we should pray for each other. cont..
@wilsonsamalex If I were to read the Bible without consideration of the context it was written in and without the knowledge of how the early Church understood it, then I think I probably wouldn't know to be for or against prayer to the saints (as properly understood). However, I know the early Church understood the benefit of prayer to the saints.
No saints shouldn't pray to us. What do they lack?
Where does the Bible say it should be our only/final authority? This is the ultimate question.
@cburton103 Well there were people who were for and some against praying to the saints.
I'm talking about taking the context into consideration, not-knowing that some pray to the saints, would you, by reading the bible alone, come to believe that this is what is to be done?
How do you know if saints don't need anything? (argument by silence, view video)
I didn't quite understand that last question, are you asking where does the bible say that the bible is the final authority?
@wilsonsamalex Show me examples of orthodox people who were against praying to the saints from the early Church - let's say within the first 500 years of Christianity. If you'd like, I'll message you many examples supporting my side.
I already answered your first question. Essentially, I said that personally, I probably wouldn't be able to conclude one way or the other positively from the Bible alone.
Yes, please show me from the Bible that the Bible itself is the only/final authority. GB
@cburton103 My point as not compare how many people believed in what, but that people believed diff things.
Sorry, if I wasn't clear, how would you come to even think that it is a possible bible doctrine?
Answering your question, read 2 Tim 3:16,17, well, are we told that men have such power? No, the bible repeats itself in telling us not to trust in men. So conclusion, scripture is good, believing in man isn't.Why should I believe in some men that teach things teach unblibal things?
@wilsonsamalex You made a claim that some people in the early Church were against praying to the saints, and now I'm asking for you to prove it. You should be able to do this unless you or someone else made this up.
I could believe it's orthodox to pray to saints based on biblical principles, and based on a few specific verses.
1) We are told to pray for others and to ask for them to pray for us.
2) We are told that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful.
@wilsonsamalex PMing is my preference. It allows people to have more fruitful discussions. PM me whenever you're ready. God bless you on this Lord's Day.
These verse say that the Bible is profitable, not sufficient. The Bible tells us to trust some men but not others. 2 Thess 2:15 tells us to trust the traditions and writings from men such as Paul. How does this fit into your understanding?
Also, you shouldn't believe anything that contradicts Scripture. Faithful Catholics do not believe anything that contradicts Scripture. As the Bereans did, it is very beneficial to search the Scriptures.
@OwayneKhoo93 God is commanding us not to commit idolatry (worship of something other than God). He is clearly not telling us not to make statues, because there are many time when God commands his people to make statues such as cherubim (Exodus 25) and golden serpents (Numbers 21:8). Both of these examples are after the ten commandments were delivered to the people by Moses. Was God mistaken?
@cburton103 God did not forbid us to make statues, yes. But he did not permit us to idolise them. Idolising does not primarily mean praying to other gods, since being a christian means you BELIVE in one God only. So why would God forbid us to worship other gods when you dont belive in others? Idolatry here means praying to a statue, whether or not it is of a false god, or jesus himself. For it is clearly stated no imagine in whatsoever, and in HEAVEN too.
@OwayneKhoo93 We don't pray to statues. If you actually understood Catholicism, you would never say that we do. We ask the person who the statue represents to pray for us - not the statue itself.
It's important to realize here that most Protestants basically equate prayer with worship, but this is not actually all of what prayer means in the English language. Therefore, prayer to saints is simply asking them to pray to God for us. Prayer to God is very different than this.
@cburton103 Yes, I know. You can say that you pray to the person representing the statue. But do you think it is right to kneel down and 'pray' to a rock? I mean, God already states that it is wrong to idolise any statue, even if it is representing jesus.
@OwayneKhoo93 My point is that praying to someone does not mean you are idolizing them. When we pray to the saints, it is essentially the same as me asking you to pray for me. In what way do you object to that?
goodness me the ignorance and shot sightedness of these protestants is shocking.we as catholics believe those who,ve gone before us and died in God's grave are fully alive in christ and as such are part of the body of Christ , the church. in the same way you ask your pastor to pray for u , we ask these holy people to pray for us even when they are dead (being fully alive in Christ) . unlike you, we believe in the intercession and prayers of the saints dead or alive
Catholic is a Universal term & Rome does not have the monopoly on it. If you dont believe that God the Father wants a personal relationship with believers. Then you have missed the whole point of God's Plan since the Fall of Adam. Jesus came to die on the Cross to restore that perfect relationship back to the Almighty God. That Adam had before Sin broke that relationship.
Pastor praying is on Earth directing the prayers to Heaven. Who said those saints are in Heaven?
@ImagesByDavid thanks for the correction . i still think its very sad of you to jump ship for something incomplete. however u want to look at scripture please be honest and not imply scripture to be contracditory by cherry picking otherwise you risk accusing our Lord and indeed the Holy Spirit He promised us to be deficient . God bless
@ImagesByDavid thats precisely my point .if this pastor has God,s favour while on earth , he surely has the same favour in Christ once dead. because though we die to sin we live eternally in Christ. sadly this concept is beyond you because of what you have been taught. as a matter of fact we are both saying the same thing except u have to take it to another level to comprehend it , peace
@jphairy who r u to decide the people u believe is saint , who r u to give sainthood, u r just human as me. if they are saints and dead, they will be risen by god along with others at his second coming. they r just resting in graves.
This guy is using the King James version of the Bible which is NOT the original Bible. The Bible that Catholics use has been around since before 500 AD. The King James, well since King James. It would seem some items have been removed from the older Bible, the ones that Catholics use. For any of you looking for information, talk to a knowledgable Catholic.
Are you trying to convince me to believe the books that the Hebrews rejected as stories, the same that where rejected by "early church fathers" and never even mentioned by Jesus or the apostles, the books that contradict the rest of the Scriptures?
Besides, you still haven't covered the topic of fish magic and salvific money. Can you really answer this with a clear conscience?
For further reading try "The Apocrypha: Is it scripture?" and "Errors in the Apocrypha" on CARM website.
@MichaelGabrielR Sry my friend the Jews used and put together the Septuagent around 300 B.C...It is only the heretical Jews that removed the books later. In fact the Jews in Ethiopea and Africa still have all 7 books. As well you are obviously not well studied as the 3 apotolic fathers use nearly every one of the 7 books in there writtings. There is no contridiction in scripture and you can even find that the book of Maccabees was used in the scripture, the author of Hebrews uses it.
@MichaelGabrielR There are many such things as what happened with the fish in Tobit, how about when Mosses set up the bronse snake and everyone who looked at the snake where cured. Nothing you can say or do will ever change the fact that you removed scripture that the apostles used in the Septuagent.
Tobit was to visited by an angel, who lied about his own name, taught that a fried fish would heal blindness and drive away demons. The book teaches that alms giving can cleanse from sin (hough Scripture states that without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin). Why listen to a lying spirit?
Brass serpent was a symbol of Christ. It was destroyed after the people turned it into an idol.
The apostles used same OT as the one in the synagogue - no apocrypha stories included.
@MichaelGabrielR 1)The angle did not lie about his name, he said his name was Azariah, mean Yahweh helps.
2) (about the fish) Mosses does much the same thing with the sake of bronze that heals all who are bitten by snakes.
3) Scripture also states that water can be used to to cleanse from sin...The shedding of blood is a prophisy of the Christ, in which the original sin is forgiven without that shedding of blood we could not remove the original sin this is what that passage is saying.
@MichaelGabrielR 4) intresting then you must admit that having a statue is not a sin, only making it into an idol is, this basically dismisses 1/4 of your case against the Catholic church, thank you for that admission.
5) You are obviously very understudied or have been fed full of propaganda. The Septuagent, is quoted nearly 300 times in the writting of the new test. The new test writters wrote mostly in Greek the Septuagent was the greek approved old test, it included all 7 books...cont...
@MichaelGabrielR ...cont...you took out. The writtings of the early christians adimitly defend the Septuagent against the heretical Masoretic text that came out of the Jewish council of Jamnia. The Jews at Jamnia actually went through the old test and not only removed the 7 books, but also anything that identified Jesus as the christ, I can give examples if you like. The Jews in Ethiopea and in Africa rejected this council and the heretical text that came from it ,and still have the OT as we do.
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Uhm would it shock you to know that if you have read the bible you have prayed through the angles and saints? Ever read Psalms 103 and 148?
@gtepp031387 Nope, it's not really a prayer to angels or saints but rather David saying that every creature that God made should worship him- It's a request, not a prayer and it's nowhere to be found that angels hear those requests, it's just an assumption. It's totally different from praying to Mary. Roman Catholics tend to give her the status of ''full of grace'' despite the fact that in the whole Bible, it's only reserved for Jesus.
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Uhmm...In Psalms we ask "Bless the LORD you his angles" This would be pointless if they could not hear...Even Christ tells us of the intersession of anles in heaven... "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10)...uhmmm and I know your KJV(1611 A.D.) changed the words of Luke 1:28..but the original bible(393 A.D.)says "Hail Mary, FULL OF GRACE." Luke 1:28
@gtepp031387 ...grace is ONLY attributed to God. If you deny that, you deny that Jesus is the only means to get into Heaven. Jesus said He was the way, not Him and some saints, or Mary! It's the core truth of Christianity. I'm not the one who knows everything about the Bible, but your theory is Roman Catholic. Don't go telling me now that in the original Bible there's purgatory. Just reconsider it. Accept Jesus as the only way, as He said He is.
@BritneyAddicted4EVA The origen of Grace is GOD, of course. Yet GOD gave to Mary grace, she is "FULL OF GRACE"(Luke 1:28)... And my friend all who truley believe are one with and in Jesus(John 17:20-26) You can not say you reject the apostles, and accept Christ, this is silly, they are one! Which is what you protestants claim to do. If you rejcct what the apotles bound then you rejct Christ, and the apotles bound a phisyical church, with a physical heiarchy...you PROTEST(ant) it!..silly
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Purgatory, a state of purification is all throughout the bible, even the Jews today believe in a state of purifictaion it is why they pray the Mourners Kaddesh....accept Christ and EVERTHING he taught, stop making up a burger king Jesus. The bible is not to be personally interpritated and "the church of the living GOD,(not the scripture is) the foundation and pillar of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15)
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Stop making up doctrins that go word for word against the holy bible like sola fide(salvation by faith alone). Thoe the bible says "NOT BY FAITH ALONE" James 2:24
@BritneyAddicted4EVA "Wherever Jesus is there is the Catholic church" and "whoever opposes the bishop does in reality serev the devil" - St Ignatius 80-107 A.D. Student of John the apostles, and ordained bishop by Peter the apostle in Antioch. A real Christian who was devoured by lions for the faith, who faced death every time he spoke of Christ and he spoke bodly...know anyone like that today? Of course not Christianity has been modernised to the point of extinction..cont...
@BritneyAddicted4EVA ..cont..Even in the catholic churches is barley exists. Everyones having too much fun and making to much money with their personal burger king Jesus..sick!
Actually, praying to anyone or anything is permitted; that is established by free will. Does that mean that it is right? According to believers, it does not.
If "image worship" referred not to the use of the image, but to worship of the image as a distinct entity, then the 2nd commandment would really just be a repetition of the first commandment: "have no other gods (ie subjects / entities of worship)".
Therefore I presume the 2nd commandment has another meaning, referring to the use or involvement of an image, within any form of worship, even in regard to using the image as part of worship of the true God.
Revelation 5:8 proves that the people/elders/angels in heaven worship God, and that they can bring the bowl/prayers of people on earth to God. This guy is putting his own spin on the verses.
twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints (Rev 5:8)
The Catholic belief is that Saints/Angels/Mary BRING prayers to God, just as revelation states that they do.
@Nepthu BUT there is no where it is written that the saints DIRECTED their prayers to the saints!!! The FACT of the matter is that Jesus taught us to pray, OUR FATHER. He didn't say Our Saints, Our Great Angel Gabriel - Jesus said OUR FATHER!!! In addition, Jesus said whatever we ask in HIS NAME, He will do - Jesus didn't say we can ask in any saints or angels name, He said HIS NAME! Why should I pray to saints and Angels WHEN GOD is the ONLY ONE that is GOOD. Do not call no man Father on earth!
@Nepthu The Holy Spirit called you GANGRENE..LOL..Now, quit praying to the dead people,you spiritualist.. It says below RESURRECTION has not taken place. So where is your dead saints right now?..LOL
2 Timothy 2:17 Their teaching will spread like GANGRENE. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the RESURRECTION has already taken place, and they DESTROY the FAITH of some.
@Nepthu They are the prayers of saints...meaning they are the prayers that the saints were praying to God themselves...Everyone in heaven worships one being only which is God and they all have the ability to pray their OWN prayers to God...
The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for you. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help, instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Big difference between asking a friend than praying directly to saint or friend that's idolatry.
@MegaB0ssman The Body of Christ encompasses all that are in Heaven and on earth. We are One Family in Christ. We do here on earth because it is done in Heaven first!
When Christ was ministered to by Prophet Elijah and Moses did he rebuke them?
Apostle Paul tell us to follow Christ in all things 1Cor 11:1.
Why then do the heaved up doctrines sever the Body Of Christ, the Word of God, the way of life?
OH I know because the ego of the heaved up doctrines are better than Christ! No, it's HERESY!
Offering prayers to saints is NOT the same as worshiping the saints. I can assure you that there are no (or at least very, very few who are confused) Catholics/Orthodox who think the saints are God, or that Mary is God. Offering prayers to saints is simply asking saints to pray for you. The saints are alive and in heaven, and can hear your prayers because they are part of the body of Christ: the Church triumphant, the Communion of Saints.
@MegaB0ssman Then why do you ask friends and family to pray for you or for specific needs. That is what we Catholics are doing when we ask the saints to pray for us.
Intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good & pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.
In the 4 verses before 1 Timothy 2:5,Paul says Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, & thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings & all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet & peaceable life, godly & respectful in every way.This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved & to come to the knowledge of the truth"(1 Tim. 2:1–4).
@MegaB0ssman Saints are not omniscient, as God is, for it is only through God’s willing it that they can communicate with others in heaven or with us.Does anyone really think that in heaven the saints are restricted to one language? After all, it is God himself who gives the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues. Surely those saints in Revelation understand the prayers they are shown to be offering to God.
God indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information;one is to look to God’s prophets instead.Thus one is not to hold a seance.There is a difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave,"Mom, please pray to Jesus for me;I’m having troubles."One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information;the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.
@MegaB0ssman For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do.The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed" (Deut. 18:10–15).
@MegaB0ssman He has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3).What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits.
If being in heaven were like being in the next room, then of course these objections would be valid. A mortal, unglorified person in the next room would indeed suffer the restrictions imposed by the way space and time work in our universe. But the saints are not in the next room, and they are not subject to the time/space limitations of this life.
The argument about petitions arriving in different languages is even further off the mark. Does anyone really think that in heaven the saints are restricted to the King’s English?It is God himself who gives the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues.Surely those saints in Revelation understand the prayers they are shown to be offering to God.
Ok, you are so wrong. Catholics do not pray to the saints or Mary, Catholics ask them to intercede on their behalf. Catholics ask them to pray for us. This is no different from when YOU ask someone you know to pray for you or for someone else. This is what we Catholics do, we ask Mary and the Saints to pray for us, we do not pray to them.
I find it odd that this guy is attacking Roman Catholics for a practice that is practiced in Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and some Anglican Churches that dates back to the 3rd century A.D. I think he is confusing prayer with worship.
@Prestonpansful. There is a novena that catholics pray to Mary before services start, it says
"mother we come to you on our knees sinful and sorrowful". This is asking her to forgive the sins of the world. In the rosary catholics are asking Mary in her name, to pray for them now and at the hour of their death, why not just ask Jesus.
@bornagainsaint1 Why do you not ask Jesus yourself and pray by yourself? Becaues Jesus asked as to pray in groups. He asked us to be in union with each other, to pray for each other. He asked us to confess our sins to one another. Catholics do not pray to but through. We understand that no saint, not even the blessed mother of the LORD, can do anything without Jesus.
@gtepp031387. Confessing our sins to one another means that when we hurt someone we go to that person and apologize to that person admitting that we were wrong in doing so. We can pray in groups and also alone. Either way Jesus still hears us and honors our prayers. Praying to and through someone else is idolatry. The living can do nothing without Jesus.
@bornagainsaint1 We never pray to we allways pray through, or ask other to pray for us, just as Paul asked others to pray for him, are you saying paul was practising Idolitry? John 17:20-22 also sates that we are in Jesus and one with him just as he is one with the father. He even says he gives us, thoes who believe, the glory that the father gave him so that we all might be one. Him in us and the father in him.
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all...1 Tim 2:5-6 (NKJV)
Pretty clear! The Catholic is ignorant because they do not read the Bible, but believe a man or their "priest" for truth! Lord help them to open thier eyes! John 14:6- Only one way up! and it is NOT by works but a free gift of grace! Eph. 2:8-9
@rtarasiak. Many years ago I really didnt read the bible that much, until one day I got real curious and started looking through the bible trying to find the traditions and doctines of the RCC, and I couldnt find any of them, soon after that I left the RCC. Since then I have spread the true gospel of Jesus Christ. When someone is praising the Lord I'll listen but when someone speaks with a srange spirit I dont care to listen. You praised the Lord and someone still spammed you, WHAT!!??
@bornagainsaint1 Yes, I was a Roman Catholic for 39 years and then fopund the truth of Scripture as you did! Now I do NOT have religion and have s relationship with Christ! I have been set free from the chains and spirit of "religion"! Can you tell me where i was spammed? Not sure where this is? God bless you and keep fighting the good fight of faith! God's Word alone is what saved me and pulled me out of the RCC! Alleluia to the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ for saving a wretch like me!-Pastor Bob
@bornagainsaint1 Remember when Judas left the church, first he had to betray the Lord by trading him in for 30 pieces of silver. He just couldn't accept his teachings. Now even God could understand if it were just an understanding problem but then Judas went on the attack by selling him out. You sir sell out the church you were baptized into and have also gone on the attack. I pray you come to your senses and repent before you meet with the same fate as Judas.
@prayyourrosary1. He is always there to forgive me. When I prayed to those in heaven including Mary, I was selling Jesus out, but now I take all to Him, and He deals with me directly. I dont deliberately sin just to test His loyalty to forgive me. Jesus, the Son of God, our Savior, our Creator, has the right to correct and put anyone in their place. This includes Mary, the pope, me, you, anyone. He will judge the living and the dead and He doesnt play favorites.
@bornagainsaint1 No when you prayed to those in heaven, including Mary, all you were doing is asking for their help and that is not selling Jesus out. Just as if you asked my mother for help, you would not be selling me out but you have bought into a lie so you can justify leaving the Catholic Church. The real reason is most likely in that your new found faith will probably allow your divorce and remarry or allow your homosesuality or some other sin so you can have your cake and eat it too.
@frosbel, Your understanding of this word necromancy is in my opinion distorted. I believe the bible forbids seances and black magic to contact the dead mainly because it involves the demonic. Saints and Jesus's mother are one with Christ and will only help you by praying to the Lord for you. You have a different faith than me. I wish there could only be one Christian faith out there but Satan has done a bang up job at keeping us Christians fighting with ourselves to take the heat off of him.
@prayyourrosary1 perhaps you should read the account of when Saul tried to contact Samuel from beyond the grave. God doesn't care how spanky of a person you were here on Earth. No speaking to the dead means no speaking to the dead.
@david84ss Anyone can take any bible scripture out of context and use it to serve their own purpose. Satan can quote scripture for his own purpose. 5 different religions can quote the same scripture and come up with a different meanings for it. You believe the Saints are dead. I believe the Saints are alive in Christ and can petition God for graces to help people. Satan hates God and his Saints and will do everything to discredit them. Obviously Satans plan is working cause you bought it.
In case you didn't know, Marin Luther, the father of the Protestant reformation wanted to get rid of the book of Revelation, just like he got rid of the 7 books in the Old Testament. Maybe because it has the verses of praying to the Saints for intercession? Just a thought.
How many times must Catholics tell you Protestants that we do not worship or ever will worship Mary, angels, and the saints. Only God gets the worship.. Father ,Son, and the Holy Spirit. We ask the saints in heaven to pray for us, like we ask a fellow Christian here on earth to pray for us. You can read in Revelation that the saints in heaven can hear our prayers and they offer it to God. If God did not permit this, why would this be even possible. Man is this guy dense.
Sola Scriptura is not Biblical - so what sense does it make to apply Sola Scriptura to the communion of saints ? For 2000 years Catholics and for 1500 years all Christians have prayed to saints for intersession - even before the Bible was canonized.
What is not Biblical is Sola Scriptura - which is something that Martin Luther, a fallen Catholic (Augustinian) monk invented some 500 years ago. No where does the Bible say "Bible only" - show us otherwise !
@MrJamesthecatholic If you look in 2 Thessolonians you can actually find a verse telling us to follow our traditions "whether by word of mouth or by letter of ours" which shows that Sola Scriptura is actually against the Bible
True.. also from a common sense point of view, I would wonder what happened to the teachings of the rest of the apostles... Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Andrew and all... did these people have nothing to teach ? Or where what they taught not worth anything to us ?
take a specific historical example.. St Thomas converted many in southern India and was then martyred there. For atleast 300 more years the NT was not even canonized. Southern India being really away from the reast of the infant Christian world.. would never have had access to even the pre canonized books - so they lived on oral tradition ALONE. Were these people any less Christian than us ?
@bornagainsaint1 Actually it doesn't. We believe in things such as the assumption of Mary, Purgatory, and other things that arent explicitly mentioned in the Bible. You can find things that may point to these beliefs, but it isnt pointed out. That is why Protestants feel they can deny some doctrines because you dont find the word purgatory or an exact description of it. Yes the Bible is all that is needed to find salvation but it does not encompass all the truth
@bornagainsaint1They taught the Eucharist which protestants deny(which is found in the Bible). Most of the things that others deny are the Pope and the fact that there is the succession from apostles (things in the Bible) Then there are things like Purgatory which was shown by the people who succeeded the Apostles (Bishops) who have the same authority
Peter's real name was Simon but Jesus called him Peter which means Rock. For almost 2000 years The Catholic Church has stood and taught the faith and past on the priesthood and in the last hundred years so many of these people who believe in Jesus have started their own churches with their own interpetations of the bible. Now because you refuse to believe that our church has an appointed head, you just say jesus was refering to himself when he called Simon, PETER which means Rock! Keep Dreaming!
@prayyourrosary1. I used to pray the rosary but no more, I take all to Jesus. Jesus is the Rock on which we must put our faith & trust in. Peter preached Christ crucified. That's a terrible thing to tell someone to keep dreaming when we call Jesus the Rock, how dare you. Your attitude toward Jesus is one of the many reasons why I left the RCC.
@bornagainsaint1 I see you as a wolf in sheeps clothing!! You spend too much time shooting down the faith of your parents and lineage. You criticize what you don't understand. We are at war with Powers and Principalities but you are spending so much time aiming your weapons at the soldiers that are fighting on your side. Do the Marines do things different than the Air Force. Should the Army criticize the Navy because they work in a different way. Does the Navy criticize the Army on Utube!!!
This video is nonsense. If I can ask my neighbor to pray for me then I can ask Peter of Paul to pray for me. We are all joined by Christ. I don't know why protestants have such a truncated narrow-minded view of the Church and of the power of God.
This whole video is a misinterpretation all seemingly based on the notion that we are praying to the saints. What Catholics are doing is asking the saints to pray for them. If one looked at the Hail Mary you would see that the last line is "Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen"
@curiosity344 Yes indeed they think that they are always right and as if catholics have no idea about god...I have met many protestants those who just know to protest...they most say- we catholics do idoltary,Mother Mary is devil,etc etc...by no other means but by these futile sentences they convert catholics to protestants..lolz
make head way friends..you are provoking agressions among the Christians..You should oppose paganism rather than catholicism as Yahweh says -"Not the healthy but the sick need a doctor!"
protestants just know to protest against catholicism.even your ancestors were catholics you know..History says catholicism was foundation of christianity after jesus was taken to heaven..those days some xtraordinary peoples prospered in making a clique of people to protest against catholics by the same irrelevant means which you people are doing now.Now you can see the same small clique has undergone a great metamorphosis
this is a factious matter,all have different sentiments.
it is nothing like that --only protestants are only going to heaven..It depends upon a person's relationship with Jesus Christ. Only God can determine a person's heart, and only God can judge..even if you w'ld have done idoltary or not..
@sushant1241 Dear friend. Only Christ can hear your prayers. He is our only Mediator, Advocate and Intercessor. Don't waste your time praying to non-eternal created beings.
@24167369 Amen friend! Christ alone is omni-present and all-powerful and capable of dealing with the millions of 'requests'. Have you seen the movie Bruce Almighty? The character becomes 'God' for a day and suddenly the millions of prayers start to come into his head! Shows how impossible that task would be for anyone other than the eternal. No Mary or saints.
@johnthreesixteen316 lets look at what a directe successore of the apostals had to say about ur practises shall we "But consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. They have no regard for love; no care for the widow, or the orphan, or the oppressed; of the bond, or of the free; of the hungry, or of the thirsty.
@johnthreesixteen316 They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes....See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles;
@gtepp031387 Hello friend. "they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh....." Of course it isn't Christ's flesh. Christ was speaking metaphorically. Your comments are Roman Catholic and not scriptural. God's Word is the authority by which all doctrines should be measured.
@johnthreesixteen316 I think ill take the word of One who knew the apostals and was taught by them face to face. Oh and Jesus says this IS my body this IS my blood. Also in John he tells all to eat his flesh and at this many diciples find it to hard a saying and they walk away and follow him no more, well to bad he didnt have a good old baptist minister there to tell the people oh he doesnt mean it, its just symbolic mabey then the diceples of the LORD wouldnt have walked away
@gtepp031387 Dear friend.....if Christ said the bread was literally His flesh and blood which would be given for us, then why wasn't that literal bread and wine nailed to the cross instead of Him? Christ said we need to be "born again". Christ is called the lamb, the vine, the rock, gate, the lion, the word, the root of David, the chief cornerstone, the way, the horn of salvation, the capstone, the light of the world, the bread, etc. etc. Are these literal? Of course not.
@johnthreesixteen316 Yes they are all literal! Just as Noahs ark is a literal story just as Adam and eve where litteral people. WHOEVER DOES NOT EAT MY FLESH DOES NOT HAVE LIFE WITH IN HIM!
@johnthreesixteen316 You are born again in the spirit when u die to the flesh, when u are baptised u are born literaly born from and into the spirit and u die to the flesh
@johnthreesixteen316 Yes he was literaly the lamb of GOD. The lamb of GOD is not defined as having four legs and wool but it is a tittle. Where the bread and wine is clearly difined as the flesh and blood. Thats like saying the giants football team are giants no it is not descriptive but a title
@gtepp031387 If Christ was a literal lamb then He would have four legs. Now, on the other hand, if He had the title of lamb He would be a metaphorical lamb.
@johnthreesixteen316 No if he said he was a lamb he would have four legs but since he said he is the lamb of GOD he did not need to have four legs. Just wondering do you believe that the story of Adam and Eve is a litteral story?
@gtepp031387 Of course Adam and Eve are literal. But Christ isn't a literal lamb or literal bread. Those are metaphorical titles. Do you know what a metaphor is by chance?
@johnthreesixteen316 How did you come to believe that it is a metifore when all throughout history it is taught to be literal? Why did all the early church think as i do?
@gtepp031387 Friend...."It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63. Noah's ark and Adam/Eve.....some things are literal but Christ also spoke in parables.
@johnthreesixteen316 Yes he did speak in parables do you know why? And didnt he tell his apostals (which if im not mistake he also says he doesnt speak in parables when he is talking to them) This IS my body this IS my blood.
@gtepp031387. There's a problem in taking John chp 6 literal, according to the RCC when transubstantiation takes place a real change occurs, which parts of His body are we eating. Would this also include His private parts? Therefore Jesus was talking figuratively. He was in truth through the Holy Spirit saying that His body and blood is to be the perfect blood sacrifice for everyone. More than likely He hung on the cross naked, now I know that He didnt mean for us to take John chp 6 literally.
@bornagainsaint1 He was not talking symbolically becaues becaues of him saying you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, many of his former diciples walked away and followed him no more. Well to bad Jesus didn't have a good old southern baptist minister there to say he doesn't mean it it's just symbolic mabey then they would never have walked away. Your silly
@gtepp031387 Dear friend. The Roman Catholic eucharist is a graven image. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4 Unfortunately, the Roman Catholic church has removed that commandment from their list. This is because the Vatican and Roman Catholicism are based upon graven images. True Christianity isn't.
@johnthreesixteen316 GOD himself had us make images of the charibim in heaven and many other things, U ur self are in the image of GOD are u against the commandment?
@johnthreesixteen316 and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church...he who does anything without the knowledge of
@johnthreesixteen316 of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil." St Ignatious 107 A.D. mayter and direct sucessore or the apostals, ordained by St Peter in Antioch, a disiple and understudy of John the apostal, the baby Jesus blessed in matthew.... I think ill take the word of someone who knew and was taught by the apostals face to face thank you!
@curiosity344 So, you ask them to pray for you. You do NOT call that communicating? Man, you are trying really hard not to admit what you are doing is totally forbidden in the Bible!
AMEN! Thank you for this video, friend.
dankdrokush 1 month ago
Of course praying to saints is unbiblical, such is with many roman catholic traditions.When I look at the roman catholic of church i see man's grip on Christanity corrupting it.Purgatory?Apocrypha?Praying to saints?Indulgences?Confessions?All are unbiblical.Jesus did not want us to confess our sins to prists, but to him himself.For he is our redeemer, not the catholic Church.The Church has been corrupted for centuries.That being said, im not against catholic people themselves.
zeratul1356 1 month ago
@zeratul1356 Let's just look at one of the things you say is a corruption of Christianity: the Apocrypha, or Deuterocanon as Catholics call it. By what Authority do you claim that it is not Scripture? Ever since the Church Councils in the late fourth century proclaimed the canon of the Bible Christians have all accepted all 73 books of the Bible until a British Protestant company removed the seven books of the Deuterocanon from their printed Bibles to decrease printing costs. Feel free to check.
cburton103 1 month ago
@cburton103
I could go more in depth but I will name several contradictions."2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin".Purgatory is by no means Biblical and is a tool used by the Catholic Church
zeratul1356 1 month ago
@cburton103
Salvation by works:
Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.
Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin
The Bible makes it clear that salvation is through Jesus's grace only.Romans 4:5, Galatians 2:16 and Titus 3:5 are just a few.
zeratul1356 1 month ago
@zeratul1356 I agree salvation is through Jesus's grace only. The verses you quote don't disprove that. Properly understood, those verses talk about works that God requires of us. When we have faith in God and do the works God sets out for us, God grants us his grace. This is biblical.
The problem here is that you're saying that the Deuterocanon isn't scriptural because your interpretation of it contradicts your interpretation of the NT. What about looking at the history of why it was dropped?
cburton103 1 month ago
Yes I just watched the video of the blonde geek with no thoughts of his own trying to believe himself but the lies didnt add up to truth so yeah catholic preaching incorporates a little voodoo in with their mass. LOL NOT PERVERTS and so many with blind faith eat it right up.
treyeangledlockdown 3 months ago
great video, I would also add that if the we are not to worship angels, like John was refused to. Then why do we worship lower beings such as humans (Hebrews 2:6,7)? If we can worship humans, then shouldn't we also be able to worship angels if they are higher than us?
wilsonsamalex 3 months ago
@wilsonsamalex Who are you claiming worships humans? Worship is due to God alone - this is the Catholic belief.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 praying is form of worship, if you pray to anything or anyone, you are worshiping that person/thing.
wilsonsamalex 2 months ago
@wilsonsamalex From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving
Prayer to God - definition 2.
Prayer to saints - definition 1.
It's possible that you have a different understanding of what it is to pray than the traditional meaning, shown here in the dictionary. When we pray to saints, we're requesting for them to pray to us. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 I'll take it that you meant "we're requesting for them to pray for us" (not to us)
Which dictionary did you use?
We need to ask. Can they hear us when we pray? No, or that would mean that they have some sort of omnipotence, and can hear our thoughts.
Do we have an example of people praying to the saints? No, the only ones prayed to are God and false gods.
Are we told to do so? No. The only ones we are told to pray to are, the father (Matt 6:9-13), or Jesus (John 14:14).
wilsonsamalex 2 months ago
@wilsonsamalex I told you what dictionary I used - it was the Merriam-Webster.
Also, we don't believe saints are omnipotent. Only God is. It doesn't require omnipotence to hear a finite number of prayers. However, God shares his divine life with us, and that's what makes it possible to do things that are otherwise impossible.
We are told to pray for one another, are we not? This is what "praying" to the saints is - asking them to pray for us. Do you object to that still? God bless.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 Sorry I didn't mean omnipotent, but omniscient. Yes we are told to pray for one another, but never are we told to pray to someone, so that he can pray for us.
You see, you are adding to God's word, you say that we are to pray for each other (as the bible says), but then you say that we are to pray to the dead saints so that they can pray for us, but no-where does the text imply this, it just says that we should pray for each other. cont..
wilsonsamalex 2 months ago
@cburton103 cont...
If we agree to this logic, then shouldn't saints pray to us too?
You might say that the bible doesn't say anything about this, but the bible doesn't say anything about praying to the saints either.
You might say that we don't have such power to receive prayer, but the bible doesn't say anything about dead saints having such prayer either.
Just put it like this, if you were to read the bible un-biased, would you still believe in praying to the saints and how?
wilsonsamalex 2 months ago
@wilsonsamalex If I were to read the Bible without consideration of the context it was written in and without the knowledge of how the early Church understood it, then I think I probably wouldn't know to be for or against prayer to the saints (as properly understood). However, I know the early Church understood the benefit of prayer to the saints.
No saints shouldn't pray to us. What do they lack?
Where does the Bible say it should be our only/final authority? This is the ultimate question.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 Well there were people who were for and some against praying to the saints.
I'm talking about taking the context into consideration, not-knowing that some pray to the saints, would you, by reading the bible alone, come to believe that this is what is to be done?
How do you know if saints don't need anything? (argument by silence, view video)
I didn't quite understand that last question, are you asking where does the bible say that the bible is the final authority?
wilsonsamalex 2 months ago
@wilsonsamalex Show me examples of orthodox people who were against praying to the saints from the early Church - let's say within the first 500 years of Christianity. If you'd like, I'll message you many examples supporting my side.
I already answered your first question. Essentially, I said that personally, I probably wouldn't be able to conclude one way or the other positively from the Bible alone.
Yes, please show me from the Bible that the Bible itself is the only/final authority. GB
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 My point as not compare how many people believed in what, but that people believed diff things.
Sorry, if I wasn't clear, how would you come to even think that it is a possible bible doctrine?
Answering your question, read 2 Tim 3:16,17, well, are we told that men have such power? No, the bible repeats itself in telling us not to trust in men. So conclusion, scripture is good, believing in man isn't.Why should I believe in some men that teach things teach unblibal things?
wilsonsamalex 2 months ago
@wilsonsamalex You made a claim that some people in the early Church were against praying to the saints, and now I'm asking for you to prove it. You should be able to do this unless you or someone else made this up.
I could believe it's orthodox to pray to saints based on biblical principles, and based on a few specific verses.
1) We are told to pray for others and to ask for them to pray for us.
2) We are told that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful.
3) The saints are with God
Rev 5:8
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 Hi sorry, this is kind of getting too long for 500 characters, do you mind if we pm? I'll reply tomorrow.
wilsonsamalex 2 months ago
@wilsonsamalex PMing is my preference. It allows people to have more fruitful discussions. PM me whenever you're ready. God bless you on this Lord's Day.
cburton103 2 months ago
@wilsonsamalex (cont) In response to 2 Tim 3:16-17:
These verse say that the Bible is profitable, not sufficient. The Bible tells us to trust some men but not others. 2 Thess 2:15 tells us to trust the traditions and writings from men such as Paul. How does this fit into your understanding?
Also, you shouldn't believe anything that contradicts Scripture. Faithful Catholics do not believe anything that contradicts Scripture. As the Bereans did, it is very beneficial to search the Scriptures.
cburton103 2 months ago
@cburton103 Exodus, the ten comandments. About making images in the sea, the land, AND IN HEAVEN and bowing down to them.
OwayneKhoo93 1 month ago
@OwayneKhoo93 God is commanding us not to commit idolatry (worship of something other than God). He is clearly not telling us not to make statues, because there are many time when God commands his people to make statues such as cherubim (Exodus 25) and golden serpents (Numbers 21:8). Both of these examples are after the ten commandments were delivered to the people by Moses. Was God mistaken?
cburton103 1 month ago
@cburton103 God did not forbid us to make statues, yes. But he did not permit us to idolise them. Idolising does not primarily mean praying to other gods, since being a christian means you BELIVE in one God only. So why would God forbid us to worship other gods when you dont belive in others? Idolatry here means praying to a statue, whether or not it is of a false god, or jesus himself. For it is clearly stated no imagine in whatsoever, and in HEAVEN too.
OwayneKhoo93 1 month ago
@OwayneKhoo93 We don't pray to statues. If you actually understood Catholicism, you would never say that we do. We ask the person who the statue represents to pray for us - not the statue itself.
It's important to realize here that most Protestants basically equate prayer with worship, but this is not actually all of what prayer means in the English language. Therefore, prayer to saints is simply asking them to pray to God for us. Prayer to God is very different than this.
cburton103 1 month ago
@cburton103 Yes, I know. You can say that you pray to the person representing the statue. But do you think it is right to kneel down and 'pray' to a rock? I mean, God already states that it is wrong to idolise any statue, even if it is representing jesus.
OwayneKhoo93 1 month ago
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cburton103 1 month ago
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@OwayneKhoo93 My point is that praying to someone does not mean you are idolizing them. When we pray to the saints, it is essentially the same as me asking you to pray for me. In what way do you object to that?
cburton103 1 month ago
goodness me the ignorance and shot sightedness of these protestants is shocking.we as catholics believe those who,ve gone before us and died in God's grave are fully alive in christ and as such are part of the body of Christ , the church. in the same way you ask your pastor to pray for u , we ask these holy people to pray for us even when they are dead (being fully alive in Christ) . unlike you, we believe in the intercession and prayers of the saints dead or alive
jphairy 6 months ago
Catholic is a Universal term & Rome does not have the monopoly on it. If you dont believe that God the Father wants a personal relationship with believers. Then you have missed the whole point of God's Plan since the Fall of Adam. Jesus came to die on the Cross to restore that perfect relationship back to the Almighty God. That Adam had before Sin broke that relationship.
Pastor praying is on Earth directing the prayers to Heaven. Who said those saints are in Heaven?
Ex R.C born again.
ImagesByDavid 6 months ago
@ImagesByDavid grow up in the deeper understanding of scripture, no wonder u left the true chuech for something cheap
jphairy 6 months ago
@jphairy
the word is church,
David born again in the city of Jerusalem 14th of April, 2005.
ImagesByDavid 6 months ago
@ImagesByDavid thanks for the correction . i still think its very sad of you to jump ship for something incomplete. however u want to look at scripture please be honest and not imply scripture to be contracditory by cherry picking otherwise you risk accusing our Lord and indeed the Holy Spirit He promised us to be deficient . God bless
jphairy 6 months ago
@ImagesByDavid thats precisely my point .if this pastor has God,s favour while on earth , he surely has the same favour in Christ once dead. because though we die to sin we live eternally in Christ. sadly this concept is beyond you because of what you have been taught. as a matter of fact we are both saying the same thing except u have to take it to another level to comprehend it , peace
jphairy 6 months ago
@ImagesByDavid If you were baptized then you were already born again as a Catholic.
If you believe in the Universal faith, then you can claim to be Catholic.
cburton103 2 months ago
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@cburton103
"If you were baptized then you were already born again as a Catholic"
First of all that should read Roman Catholic. Roman Catholics dont share the same faith as Saint Peter, who was a true Catholic like myself.
Anyways! are you thinking of infant baptism? You believe if a baby has water sprinkled on its head that, that baby is now a child of God?
Please show your belief backed up with Scripture.
ImagesByDavid 2 months ago
@jphairy who r u to decide the people u believe is saint , who r u to give sainthood, u r just human as me. if they are saints and dead, they will be risen by god along with others at his second coming. they r just resting in graves.
123the7 3 months ago
This guy is using the King James version of the Bible which is NOT the original Bible. The Bible that Catholics use has been around since before 500 AD. The King James, well since King James. It would seem some items have been removed from the older Bible, the ones that Catholics use. For any of you looking for information, talk to a knowledgable Catholic.
jl4e23 8 months ago
@jl4e23
You mean the apocrypha that teaches fish magic and that money saves from hell?
MichaelGabrielR 8 months ago
@MichaelGabrielR Intesting you call books that the apotles used in the Septuagent apocrytpha.
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@gtepp031387
Are you trying to convince me to believe the books that the Hebrews rejected as stories, the same that where rejected by "early church fathers" and never even mentioned by Jesus or the apostles, the books that contradict the rest of the Scriptures?
Besides, you still haven't covered the topic of fish magic and salvific money. Can you really answer this with a clear conscience?
For further reading try "The Apocrypha: Is it scripture?" and "Errors in the Apocrypha" on CARM website.
MichaelGabrielR 8 months ago
@MichaelGabrielR Sry my friend the Jews used and put together the Septuagent around 300 B.C...It is only the heretical Jews that removed the books later. In fact the Jews in Ethiopea and Africa still have all 7 books. As well you are obviously not well studied as the 3 apotolic fathers use nearly every one of the 7 books in there writtings. There is no contridiction in scripture and you can even find that the book of Maccabees was used in the scripture, the author of Hebrews uses it.
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@MichaelGabrielR There are many such things as what happened with the fish in Tobit, how about when Mosses set up the bronse snake and everyone who looked at the snake where cured. Nothing you can say or do will ever change the fact that you removed scripture that the apostles used in the Septuagent.
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@gtepp031387
Tobit was to visited by an angel, who lied about his own name, taught that a fried fish would heal blindness and drive away demons. The book teaches that alms giving can cleanse from sin (hough Scripture states that without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin). Why listen to a lying spirit?
Brass serpent was a symbol of Christ. It was destroyed after the people turned it into an idol.
The apostles used same OT as the one in the synagogue - no apocrypha stories included.
MichaelGabrielR 8 months ago
@MichaelGabrielR 1)The angle did not lie about his name, he said his name was Azariah, mean Yahweh helps.
2) (about the fish) Mosses does much the same thing with the sake of bronze that heals all who are bitten by snakes.
3) Scripture also states that water can be used to to cleanse from sin...The shedding of blood is a prophisy of the Christ, in which the original sin is forgiven without that shedding of blood we could not remove the original sin this is what that passage is saying.
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@MichaelGabrielR 4) intresting then you must admit that having a statue is not a sin, only making it into an idol is, this basically dismisses 1/4 of your case against the Catholic church, thank you for that admission.
5) You are obviously very understudied or have been fed full of propaganda. The Septuagent, is quoted nearly 300 times in the writting of the new test. The new test writters wrote mostly in Greek the Septuagent was the greek approved old test, it included all 7 books...cont...
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@MichaelGabrielR ...cont...you took out. The writtings of the early christians adimitly defend the Septuagent against the heretical Masoretic text that came out of the Jewish council of Jamnia. The Jews at Jamnia actually went through the old test and not only removed the 7 books, but also anything that identified Jesus as the christ, I can give examples if you like. The Jews in Ethiopea and in Africa rejected this council and the heretical text that came from it ,and still have the OT as we do.
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@MichaelGabrielR Even so, the KJB would not be in exsistence if it was not for Councils that put it together. Look at from a historical persepective.
jl4e23 8 months ago
Since the people in heaven are still members of the one Church, yes, it is OK to ask them to pray for us on our behalf to God.
VictoryInJesus454 8 months ago
I don't think the RCC is going to change. :(
They should understand that we are to pray the the Creator, not the creation. :)
Praise God!
BritneyAddicted4EVA 8 months ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Uhm would it shock you to know that if you have read the bible you have prayed through the angles and saints? Ever read Psalms 103 and 148?
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@gtepp031387 Nope, it's not really a prayer to angels or saints but rather David saying that every creature that God made should worship him- It's a request, not a prayer and it's nowhere to be found that angels hear those requests, it's just an assumption. It's totally different from praying to Mary. Roman Catholics tend to give her the status of ''full of grace'' despite the fact that in the whole Bible, it's only reserved for Jesus.
BritneyAddicted4EVA 8 months ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Uhmm...In Psalms we ask "Bless the LORD you his angles" This would be pointless if they could not hear...Even Christ tells us of the intersession of anles in heaven... "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10)...uhmmm and I know your KJV(1611 A.D.) changed the words of Luke 1:28..but the original bible(393 A.D.)says "Hail Mary, FULL OF GRACE." Luke 1:28
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@gtepp031387 ...grace is ONLY attributed to God. If you deny that, you deny that Jesus is the only means to get into Heaven. Jesus said He was the way, not Him and some saints, or Mary! It's the core truth of Christianity. I'm not the one who knows everything about the Bible, but your theory is Roman Catholic. Don't go telling me now that in the original Bible there's purgatory. Just reconsider it. Accept Jesus as the only way, as He said He is.
BritneyAddicted4EVA 8 months ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA The origen of Grace is GOD, of course. Yet GOD gave to Mary grace, she is "FULL OF GRACE"(Luke 1:28)... And my friend all who truley believe are one with and in Jesus(John 17:20-26) You can not say you reject the apostles, and accept Christ, this is silly, they are one! Which is what you protestants claim to do. If you rejcct what the apotles bound then you rejct Christ, and the apotles bound a phisyical church, with a physical heiarchy...you PROTEST(ant) it!..silly
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Purgatory, a state of purification is all throughout the bible, even the Jews today believe in a state of purifictaion it is why they pray the Mourners Kaddesh....accept Christ and EVERTHING he taught, stop making up a burger king Jesus. The bible is not to be personally interpritated and "the church of the living GOD,(not the scripture is) the foundation and pillar of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15)
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Stop making up doctrins that go word for word against the holy bible like sola fide(salvation by faith alone). Thoe the bible says "NOT BY FAITH ALONE" James 2:24
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA "Wherever Jesus is there is the Catholic church" and "whoever opposes the bishop does in reality serev the devil" - St Ignatius 80-107 A.D. Student of John the apostles, and ordained bishop by Peter the apostle in Antioch. A real Christian who was devoured by lions for the faith, who faced death every time he spoke of Christ and he spoke bodly...know anyone like that today? Of course not Christianity has been modernised to the point of extinction..cont...
gtepp031387 8 months ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA ..cont..Even in the catholic churches is barley exists. Everyones having too much fun and making to much money with their personal burger king Jesus..sick!
gtepp031387 8 months ago
Actually, praying to anyone or anything is permitted; that is established by free will. Does that mean that it is right? According to believers, it does not.
JeffersonDinedAlone 8 months ago
If "image worship" referred not to the use of the image, but to worship of the image as a distinct entity, then the 2nd commandment would really just be a repetition of the first commandment: "have no other gods (ie subjects / entities of worship)".
Therefore I presume the 2nd commandment has another meaning, referring to the use or involvement of an image, within any form of worship, even in regard to using the image as part of worship of the true God.
Dadutta 8 months ago
Revelation 5:8 proves that the people/elders/angels in heaven worship God, and that they can bring the bowl/prayers of people on earth to God. This guy is putting his own spin on the verses.
twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints (Rev 5:8)
The Catholic belief is that Saints/Angels/Mary BRING prayers to God, just as revelation states that they do.
Nepthu 9 months ago
@Nepthu BUT there is no where it is written that the saints DIRECTED their prayers to the saints!!! The FACT of the matter is that Jesus taught us to pray, OUR FATHER. He didn't say Our Saints, Our Great Angel Gabriel - Jesus said OUR FATHER!!! In addition, Jesus said whatever we ask in HIS NAME, He will do - Jesus didn't say we can ask in any saints or angels name, He said HIS NAME! Why should I pray to saints and Angels WHEN GOD is the ONLY ONE that is GOOD. Do not call no man Father on earth!
Kumtekmeon 9 months ago
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@Nepthu The Holy Spirit called you GANGRENE..LOL..Now, quit praying to the dead people,you spiritualist.. It says below RESURRECTION has not taken place. So where is your dead saints right now?..LOL
2 Timothy 2:17 Their teaching will spread like GANGRENE. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the RESURRECTION has already taken place, and they DESTROY the FAITH of some.
abukid 8 months ago
@Nepthu They are the prayers of saints...meaning they are the prayers that the saints were praying to God themselves...Everyone in heaven worships one being only which is God and they all have the ability to pray their OWN prayers to God...
tario26 8 months ago
The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for you. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help, instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Big difference between asking a friend than praying directly to saint or friend that's idolatry.
blackbird01T 9 months ago
@Thunderhead766 yeah but u do not go to Billy graham and get on your knees and say o holy saint Bill graham give me a miracle.
blackbird01T 9 months ago
@MegaB0ssman The Body of Christ encompasses all that are in Heaven and on earth. We are One Family in Christ. We do here on earth because it is done in Heaven first!
When Christ was ministered to by Prophet Elijah and Moses did he rebuke them?
Apostle Paul tell us to follow Christ in all things 1Cor 11:1.
Why then do the heaved up doctrines sever the Body Of Christ, the Word of God, the way of life?
OH I know because the ego of the heaved up doctrines are better than Christ! No, it's HERESY!
Adonomos 9 months ago
Offering prayers to saints is NOT the same as worshiping the saints. I can assure you that there are no (or at least very, very few who are confused) Catholics/Orthodox who think the saints are God, or that Mary is God. Offering prayers to saints is simply asking saints to pray for you. The saints are alive and in heaven, and can hear your prayers because they are part of the body of Christ: the Church triumphant, the Communion of Saints.
stephe1987 9 months ago
@MegaB0ssman Then why do you ask friends and family to pray for you or for specific needs. That is what we Catholics are doing when we ask the saints to pray for us.
SGC51 9 months ago
@SGC51 The key is we ask a friend we to pray,we do not pray to the friend to pray to GOD!
blackbird01T 9 months ago
Intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good & pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.
SGC51 9 months ago
In the 4 verses before 1 Timothy 2:5,Paul says Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, & thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings & all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet & peaceable life, godly & respectful in every way.This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved & to come to the knowledge of the truth"(1 Tim. 2:1–4).
SGC51 9 months ago
@MegaB0ssman Saints are not omniscient, as God is, for it is only through God’s willing it that they can communicate with others in heaven or with us.Does anyone really think that in heaven the saints are restricted to one language? After all, it is God himself who gives the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues. Surely those saints in Revelation understand the prayers they are shown to be offering to God.
SGC51 9 months ago
God indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information;one is to look to God’s prophets instead.Thus one is not to hold a seance.There is a difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave,"Mom, please pray to Jesus for me;I’m having troubles."One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information;the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.
SGC51 9 months ago
@MegaB0ssman For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do.The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed" (Deut. 18:10–15).
SGC51 9 months ago
@MegaB0ssman He has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3).What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits.
SGC51 9 months ago
If being in heaven were like being in the next room, then of course these objections would be valid. A mortal, unglorified person in the next room would indeed suffer the restrictions imposed by the way space and time work in our universe. But the saints are not in the next room, and they are not subject to the time/space limitations of this life.
SGC51 10 months ago
The argument about petitions arriving in different languages is even further off the mark. Does anyone really think that in heaven the saints are restricted to the King’s English?It is God himself who gives the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues.Surely those saints in Revelation understand the prayers they are shown to be offering to God.
SGC51 10 months ago
Ok, you are so wrong. Catholics do not pray to the saints or Mary, Catholics ask them to intercede on their behalf. Catholics ask them to pray for us. This is no different from when YOU ask someone you know to pray for you or for someone else. This is what we Catholics do, we ask Mary and the Saints to pray for us, we do not pray to them.
SGC51 10 months ago
no
theelectkickenass 10 months ago
I find it odd that this guy is attacking Roman Catholics for a practice that is practiced in Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and some Anglican Churches that dates back to the 3rd century A.D. I think he is confusing prayer with worship.
michael34453 11 months ago
@Prestonpansful. There is a novena that catholics pray to Mary before services start, it says
"mother we come to you on our knees sinful and sorrowful". This is asking her to forgive the sins of the world. In the rosary catholics are asking Mary in her name, to pray for them now and at the hour of their death, why not just ask Jesus.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 Why do you not ask Jesus yourself and pray by yourself? Becaues Jesus asked as to pray in groups. He asked us to be in union with each other, to pray for each other. He asked us to confess our sins to one another. Catholics do not pray to but through. We understand that no saint, not even the blessed mother of the LORD, can do anything without Jesus.
gtepp031387 11 months ago
@gtepp031387. Confessing our sins to one another means that when we hurt someone we go to that person and apologize to that person admitting that we were wrong in doing so. We can pray in groups and also alone. Either way Jesus still hears us and honors our prayers. Praying to and through someone else is idolatry. The living can do nothing without Jesus.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 We never pray to we allways pray through, or ask other to pray for us, just as Paul asked others to pray for him, are you saying paul was practising Idolitry? John 17:20-22 also sates that we are in Jesus and one with him just as he is one with the father. He even says he gives us, thoes who believe, the glory that the father gave him so that we all might be one. Him in us and the father in him.
gtepp031387 11 months ago
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For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all...1 Tim 2:5-6 (NKJV)
Pretty clear! The Catholic is ignorant because they do not read the Bible, but believe a man or their "priest" for truth! Lord help them to open thier eyes! John 14:6- Only one way up! and it is NOT by works but a free gift of grace! Eph. 2:8-9
rtarasiak 11 months ago
@rtarasiak. Many years ago I really didnt read the bible that much, until one day I got real curious and started looking through the bible trying to find the traditions and doctines of the RCC, and I couldnt find any of them, soon after that I left the RCC. Since then I have spread the true gospel of Jesus Christ. When someone is praising the Lord I'll listen but when someone speaks with a srange spirit I dont care to listen. You praised the Lord and someone still spammed you, WHAT!!??
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 Yes, I was a Roman Catholic for 39 years and then fopund the truth of Scripture as you did! Now I do NOT have religion and have s relationship with Christ! I have been set free from the chains and spirit of "religion"! Can you tell me where i was spammed? Not sure where this is? God bless you and keep fighting the good fight of faith! God's Word alone is what saved me and pulled me out of the RCC! Alleluia to the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ for saving a wretch like me!-Pastor Bob
rtarasiak 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 Remember when Judas left the church, first he had to betray the Lord by trading him in for 30 pieces of silver. He just couldn't accept his teachings. Now even God could understand if it were just an understanding problem but then Judas went on the attack by selling him out. You sir sell out the church you were baptized into and have also gone on the attack. I pray you come to your senses and repent before you meet with the same fate as Judas.
prayyourrosary1 11 months ago
@prayyourrosary1. He is always there to forgive me. When I prayed to those in heaven including Mary, I was selling Jesus out, but now I take all to Him, and He deals with me directly. I dont deliberately sin just to test His loyalty to forgive me. Jesus, the Son of God, our Savior, our Creator, has the right to correct and put anyone in their place. This includes Mary, the pope, me, you, anyone. He will judge the living and the dead and He doesnt play favorites.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 No when you prayed to those in heaven, including Mary, all you were doing is asking for their help and that is not selling Jesus out. Just as if you asked my mother for help, you would not be selling me out but you have bought into a lie so you can justify leaving the Catholic Church. The real reason is most likely in that your new found faith will probably allow your divorce and remarry or allow your homosesuality or some other sin so you can have your cake and eat it too.
prayyourrosary1 11 months ago
@prayyourrosary1 , you are praying to the physically dead, this is forbidden in the bible and is called Necromancy
frosbel 7 months ago
@frosbel Sry but the Saints are one with and in Jesus with him where he is, if you pray to Jesus the saints are there.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@frosbel, Your understanding of this word necromancy is in my opinion distorted. I believe the bible forbids seances and black magic to contact the dead mainly because it involves the demonic. Saints and Jesus's mother are one with Christ and will only help you by praying to the Lord for you. You have a different faith than me. I wish there could only be one Christian faith out there but Satan has done a bang up job at keeping us Christians fighting with ourselves to take the heat off of him.
prayyourrosary1 6 months ago
@prayyourrosary1 perhaps you should read the account of when Saul tried to contact Samuel from beyond the grave. God doesn't care how spanky of a person you were here on Earth. No speaking to the dead means no speaking to the dead.
david84ss 3 months ago
@david84ss Anyone can take any bible scripture out of context and use it to serve their own purpose. Satan can quote scripture for his own purpose. 5 different religions can quote the same scripture and come up with a different meanings for it. You believe the Saints are dead. I believe the Saints are alive in Christ and can petition God for graces to help people. Satan hates God and his Saints and will do everything to discredit them. Obviously Satans plan is working cause you bought it.
prayyourrosary1 3 months ago
In case you didn't know, Marin Luther, the father of the Protestant reformation wanted to get rid of the book of Revelation, just like he got rid of the 7 books in the Old Testament. Maybe because it has the verses of praying to the Saints for intercession? Just a thought.
feilung888 11 months ago
How many times must Catholics tell you Protestants that we do not worship or ever will worship Mary, angels, and the saints. Only God gets the worship.. Father ,Son, and the Holy Spirit. We ask the saints in heaven to pray for us, like we ask a fellow Christian here on earth to pray for us. You can read in Revelation that the saints in heaven can hear our prayers and they offer it to God. If God did not permit this, why would this be even possible. Man is this guy dense.
feilung888 11 months ago
Sola Scriptura is not Biblical - so what sense does it make to apply Sola Scriptura to the communion of saints ? For 2000 years Catholics and for 1500 years all Christians have prayed to saints for intersession - even before the Bible was canonized.
What is not Biblical is Sola Scriptura - which is something that Martin Luther, a fallen Catholic (Augustinian) monk invented some 500 years ago. No where does the Bible say "Bible only" - show us otherwise !
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic If you look in 2 Thessolonians you can actually find a verse telling us to follow our traditions "whether by word of mouth or by letter of ours" which shows that Sola Scriptura is actually against the Bible
MagicMartin5 11 months ago
@MagicMartin5
True.. also from a common sense point of view, I would wonder what happened to the teachings of the rest of the apostles... Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Andrew and all... did these people have nothing to teach ? Or where what they taught not worth anything to us ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MagicMartin5
take a specific historical example.. St Thomas converted many in southern India and was then martyred there. For atleast 300 more years the NT was not even canonized. Southern India being really away from the reast of the infant Christian world.. would never have had access to even the pre canonized books - so they lived on oral tradition ALONE. Were these people any less Christian than us ?
Sola Scriptura is plain absurd.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic Amen great example hopefully this will cause some protestants to question this belief and lead others to the fullness of truth
MagicMartin5 11 months ago
@MagicMartin5. The RCC relies on sola scriptura to support their traditions and doctrines. Where else does the RCC get their cathechism from?
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 Actually it doesn't. We believe in things such as the assumption of Mary, Purgatory, and other things that arent explicitly mentioned in the Bible. You can find things that may point to these beliefs, but it isnt pointed out. That is why Protestants feel they can deny some doctrines because you dont find the word purgatory or an exact description of it. Yes the Bible is all that is needed to find salvation but it does not encompass all the truth
MagicMartin5 11 months ago
@MagicMartin5. But that's the whole thing, what else did the apostles teach as traditions that are not in the bible?
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1They taught the Eucharist which protestants deny(which is found in the Bible). Most of the things that others deny are the Pope and the fact that there is the succession from apostles (things in the Bible) Then there are things like Purgatory which was shown by the people who succeeded the Apostles (Bishops) who have the same authority
MagicMartin5 11 months ago
Peter's real name was Simon but Jesus called him Peter which means Rock. For almost 2000 years The Catholic Church has stood and taught the faith and past on the priesthood and in the last hundred years so many of these people who believe in Jesus have started their own churches with their own interpetations of the bible. Now because you refuse to believe that our church has an appointed head, you just say jesus was refering to himself when he called Simon, PETER which means Rock! Keep Dreaming!
prayyourrosary1 1 year ago
@prayyourrosary1. I used to pray the rosary but no more, I take all to Jesus. Jesus is the Rock on which we must put our faith & trust in. Peter preached Christ crucified. That's a terrible thing to tell someone to keep dreaming when we call Jesus the Rock, how dare you. Your attitude toward Jesus is one of the many reasons why I left the RCC.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 I see you as a wolf in sheeps clothing!! You spend too much time shooting down the faith of your parents and lineage. You criticize what you don't understand. We are at war with Powers and Principalities but you are spending so much time aiming your weapons at the soldiers that are fighting on your side. Do the Marines do things different than the Air Force. Should the Army criticize the Navy because they work in a different way. Does the Navy criticize the Army on Utube!!!
prayyourrosary1 11 months ago
This video is nonsense. If I can ask my neighbor to pray for me then I can ask Peter of Paul to pray for me. We are all joined by Christ. I don't know why protestants have such a truncated narrow-minded view of the Church and of the power of God.
CaliforniaCatholic 1 year ago
@CaliforniaCatholic Good point. Protestants think God locks the saints into a closet. Hebrews 12:1 apparently is missing from their Bibles.
Deepertruthblog 1 year ago
This whole video is a misinterpretation all seemingly based on the notion that we are praying to the saints. What Catholics are doing is asking the saints to pray for them. If one looked at the Hail Mary you would see that the last line is "Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen"
MagicMartin5 1 year ago
@MagicMartin5 yeah...we never say "(St.Lucas) please save us"....they are very straightforward in understandings,interpretations and belief
sushant1241 1 year ago
by jannaheilanie ---->"protestants ignore certain verses in the Bible. For example (just to cite a few):
"So faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead." (Jas 2:17)
"See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." (Jas 2:24)
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." (Mt 7:21)
Didn't Jesus state over and over again for us to look after each other?""
sushant1241 1 year ago
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curiosity344 1 year ago
@sushant1241 Yes, the Protestants do cut out a lot of verses out
of the Bible, That is true
curiosity344 1 year ago
@curiosity344 Yes indeed they think that they are always right and as if catholics have no idea about god...I have met many protestants those who just know to protest...they most say- we catholics do idoltary,Mother Mary is devil,etc etc...by no other means but by these futile sentences they convert catholics to protestants..lolz
sushant1241 1 year ago
@sushant1241 yeah, I know. It is an ongoing never ending battle.
This utube talk is just a computer holy war. We each believe that
we are doing are part what God is calling us to do-the Protestants
and "nonanticatholcis" as kiwichristian wants to be called. I believe
that he believes in what he is saying.( He is the only "nonanticatholic"
Catholic basher I know).
curiosity344 1 year ago
make head way friends..you are provoking agressions among the Christians..You should oppose paganism rather than catholicism as Yahweh says -"Not the healthy but the sick need a doctor!"
sushant1241 1 year ago
protestants just know to protest against catholicism.even your ancestors were catholics you know..History says catholicism was foundation of christianity after jesus was taken to heaven..those days some xtraordinary peoples prospered in making a clique of people to protest against catholics by the same irrelevant means which you people are doing now.Now you can see the same small clique has undergone a great metamorphosis
sushant1241 1 year ago
this is a factious matter,all have different sentiments.
it is nothing like that --only protestants are only going to heaven..It depends upon a person's relationship with Jesus Christ. Only God can determine a person's heart, and only God can judge..even if you w'ld have done idoltary or not..
sushant1241 1 year ago
We don't pray to the saints..nor we pray Mother Mary for any kind of redemption....We just ask them to pray for us to our father..
Err is in you people who misinterpret everything..
sushant1241 1 year ago
@sushant1241 Dear friend. Only Christ can hear your prayers. He is our only Mediator, Advocate and Intercessor. Don't waste your time praying to non-eternal created beings.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 My advise is to meditateon the Word of God and see for yourself what God says about prayer. Its to Be directed to Christ.
24167369 1 year ago
@24167369 Amen friend! Christ alone is omni-present and all-powerful and capable of dealing with the millions of 'requests'. Have you seen the movie Bruce Almighty? The character becomes 'God' for a day and suddenly the millions of prayers start to come into his head! Shows how impossible that task would be for anyone other than the eternal. No Mary or saints.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Yeah i seen that movie. Hollywoods version of how God operates. Good thing for us nothing is hard for God
24167369 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 lets look at what a directe successore of the apostals had to say about ur practises shall we "But consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. They have no regard for love; no care for the widow, or the orphan, or the oppressed; of the bond, or of the free; of the hungry, or of the thirsty.
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes....See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles;
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 Hello friend. "they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh....." Of course it isn't Christ's flesh. Christ was speaking metaphorically. Your comments are Roman Catholic and not scriptural. God's Word is the authority by which all doctrines should be measured.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 I think ill take the word of One who knew the apostals and was taught by them face to face. Oh and Jesus says this IS my body this IS my blood. Also in John he tells all to eat his flesh and at this many diciples find it to hard a saying and they walk away and follow him no more, well to bad he didnt have a good old baptist minister there to tell the people oh he doesnt mean it, its just symbolic mabey then the diceples of the LORD wouldnt have walked away
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 Dear friend.....if Christ said the bread was literally His flesh and blood which would be given for us, then why wasn't that literal bread and wine nailed to the cross instead of Him? Christ said we need to be "born again". Christ is called the lamb, the vine, the rock, gate, the lion, the word, the root of David, the chief cornerstone, the way, the horn of salvation, the capstone, the light of the world, the bread, etc. etc. Are these literal? Of course not.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Yes they are all literal! Just as Noahs ark is a literal story just as Adam and eve where litteral people. WHOEVER DOES NOT EAT MY FLESH DOES NOT HAVE LIFE WITH IN HIM!
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 Literal. Hmmmm.....I'm wondering how I am going to be born again. My mother passed away a few years ago.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 You are born again in the spirit when u die to the flesh, when u are baptised u are born literaly born from and into the spirit and u die to the flesh
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 You just spoke metaphorically without realizing it. Tell me, did Jesus, being the lamb of God have 4 legs and was he covered in wool?
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Yes he was literaly the lamb of GOD. The lamb of GOD is not defined as having four legs and wool but it is a tittle. Where the bread and wine is clearly difined as the flesh and blood. Thats like saying the giants football team are giants no it is not descriptive but a title
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 If Christ was a literal lamb then He would have four legs. Now, on the other hand, if He had the title of lamb He would be a metaphorical lamb.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 No if he said he was a lamb he would have four legs but since he said he is the lamb of GOD he did not need to have four legs. Just wondering do you believe that the story of Adam and Eve is a litteral story?
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 Of course Adam and Eve are literal. But Christ isn't a literal lamb or literal bread. Those are metaphorical titles. Do you know what a metaphor is by chance?
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 How did you come to believe that it is a metifore when all throughout history it is taught to be literal? Why did all the early church think as i do?
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 there is a difference between a title and a statment if u dont understand this then...well i dont think we should talk anymore
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 Friend...."It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63. Noah's ark and Adam/Eve.....some things are literal but Christ also spoke in parables.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Yes he did speak in parables do you know why? And didnt he tell his apostals (which if im not mistake he also says he doesnt speak in parables when he is talking to them) This IS my body this IS my blood.
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 You're close. Christ said the time would come when He wouldn't speak to them in parables anymore.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@gtepp031387. There's a problem in taking John chp 6 literal, according to the RCC when transubstantiation takes place a real change occurs, which parts of His body are we eating. Would this also include His private parts? Therefore Jesus was talking figuratively. He was in truth through the Holy Spirit saying that His body and blood is to be the perfect blood sacrifice for everyone. More than likely He hung on the cross naked, now I know that He didnt mean for us to take John chp 6 literally.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 He was not talking symbolically becaues becaues of him saying you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, many of his former diciples walked away and followed him no more. Well to bad Jesus didn't have a good old southern baptist minister there to say he doesn't mean it it's just symbolic mabey then they would never have walked away. Your silly
gtepp031387 11 months ago
@gtepp031387 Dear friend. The Roman Catholic eucharist is a graven image. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4 Unfortunately, the Roman Catholic church has removed that commandment from their list. This is because the Vatican and Roman Catholicism are based upon graven images. True Christianity isn't.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 GOD himself had us make images of the charibim in heaven and many other things, U ur self are in the image of GOD are u against the commandment?
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 My dear friend. Look up the word wisdom in the dictionary and tell yourself where that word applies.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
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curiosity344 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church...he who does anything without the knowledge of
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316 of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil." St Ignatious 107 A.D. mayter and direct sucessore or the apostals, ordained by St Peter in Antioch, a disiple and understudy of John the apostal, the baby Jesus blessed in matthew.... I think ill take the word of someone who knew and was taught by the apostals face to face thank you!
gtepp031387 1 year ago
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curiosity344 1 year ago
@sushant1241 And since they are dead ( physically ) you are communicating with them spiritually, which is CONDEMNED in Duet! Start obeying the Bible!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
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curiosity344 1 year ago
@curiosity344 So, you ask them to pray for you. You do NOT call that communicating? Man, you are trying really hard not to admit what you are doing is totally forbidden in the Bible!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago