Obama's Tax plan, McCain's Tax plan, and the FairTax

[schmellyX]

Best plan ever.

[urgener]

Prices will NOT rise with the FairTax, yet the government will be funded the same, and your purchasing power will rise. The FairTax will eliminate some $250 billion in wasted overhead costs. Illegals and criminals will finally contribute to the federal government. Yet the poverty level poor will completely be untaxed due to the prebate. The only loosers with the FairTax are politicians and the lobbyists who influence them. Let's make it happen.

[hdaen01]

This is very, very simple.

Under the Fair Tax all institutions including the government pay sales taxes. Lets see how this works. Under the Fair Tax a $100 power tool costs $88. The government will pay that plus the $23 dollars in FT. Total $101. The government will get back in FT $23 after the sale. Since the government pays it at the register and gets it back from the retailer in turn then in reality they aren't paying taxes just passing it back. This is done so that NO exemptions are given.

[NavyBeer]

Faith -- whats wrong with cities and states paying as well?

How stupid can you fucking be an still exhale. Where will they get the money?

If cities and states and the military ect can pay huge SALES taxes you fucking idiot -- why not charge them an INCOME tax? Even your dumb ass could spot the insanity of an income tax on city and state. (Well, maybe not)

Well -- charging them a sales tax is just as fucking stupid..

Fairtax knows this -- thats why they hide it.

[12FlyMe]

I did use example --- if the US military pays the federal government 2 billion in sales taxes on one plane - its NOT income to the government.

The transaction is a FUCKING FARCE. How can you fucking morons be so fucking stupid.

But fairtax pretends that that is INCOME. Not just the army, but every city, every state.

California, for example, dumb fuck, would have to pay say 50 billion in sales taxes. WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO GET IT?

Fairtax is insane nonsense you DF.

[BullshipDetector]

Faith no dumb fuck -- they are not paying themselves. Cities and states would have to pay this too -- so no, idiot. Its not paying themselves idiot.

Plus, retard, they COUNT it as income -- not as expense. Got that idiot? They are counting trillions in tax revenue from this fucking insanity -- and dumb fucks like you sit their and don't have the fucking brains to spot a farce.

No wonder our tax code is so fucked up -- you idiots are so easily fooled.

[BullshipDetector]

I dont have a cause dumb fuck -- I'm explaining that FT is pure bullshit, and that it's own leaders know it.

They are not fucking serious, they have NO fucking intention of actually taxing the government, they know it' pure horse shit, they know dumb fucks like you will buy that shit.

But they are never even going to have hearings under oath -- cause its BULLSHIT

[BullshipDetector]

Faith -- what part of this is not clear? The Pentagon does not fucking pay sales tax on anything idiot. Not on jets, aircraft carriers, tanks, ANYTHING.

Got that retard? Let me know if that's too fucking complicated.

Now - Fairtax pretends they WOULD pay sales tax on tanks, aircraft carries, ect.

Got that retard?

FT pretends ALL government spending will pay those taxes idiot. They pretend that so their "math" adds up.

Fairtax is bshit. They are not serious, it's a fucking farce

[BullshipDetector]

Faith, no, idiot. The Pentagon does NOT pay 2 million in sales taxes for a 6 million dollar tank.

Got that retard? When the Airforce buys a 2 billion dollar bomber, do you think they pay 600 million dollars in sales tax ?

How do you fucks get so fucking stupid and still inhale?

Fairtrax pretends the Pentgon ect will pay massive sales taxes on all their spending. Got that, retard?

That's how their "math" adds up.

In other words, it' BS

[jakespeed23]

clue me in about fairtax.?. to me fairtax would be everyone pays the same percentage ,even green card holders, if its 10% or 15% everyone that lives in this country should pay the same tax percent! not tax people that worked and made it.but thats just me......

[MarkDouglasC]

Fairtax pretends to get 1.5 trillion -- almost half of revenue for the government -- FROM the government, by taxing the government.

Its dumb as dog shit -- stupid as hell -- its pure bullshit - and they know it.

Why the fuck did they pretend to be able to be almost half revenue FROM the government?

Simple -- cause the ass wipes knew that telling people their sales tax would be 60% -- wouldn't get the idiots out there clapping.

They needed idiots out there clapping.

[ProjectAngelhorn]

While I agree with you about the FairTax being faulty, I really don't think that calling people idiots or morons or any other synonyms for the word is the best way to get your point across, while still enabling people to see you as an intelligent human being.

[FreeLunchTax]

Fairtax is a farce -- it really does lie about it's tax base.

Half of the taxes FT claims they will collects is just smoke and mirrors. It pretends to get massive income FROM the government by taxing the government.

Here is a clue -- not only is that idiotic -- no one even tried that nonsense. Its dumber than dog shit -- its a farce.

Fairtax knows this is bullshit -- but they have to show on paper they get enough money. So they pretend to be able to tax the gov.

Its BULLSHIT

[MarkDouglasC]

The government DOES not pay itself an income or sales tax.

For example, when a state highway dept buys a endloader - or a pencil -- they do NOT pay state sales tax on it.

Nor does the Army or Navy pay sales taxes on anything.

This Fairtax bullshit would put the world's highest sales tax on ALL government spending -- and its pure bullshit.

Fairtax knows its bullshit -- but they have to pretend that shit to say they get enough money @23%.

Real studies show the rate would be over 60%

[terinbune]

first off it would not put a sales tax on all government spending, only the items the government spends money on. (Government employment, for example, wouldn't get their paychecks taxed, like they do now.) So it's working the same way on the private sector as it is inside of the government. Before the gov. didn't have to pay taxes on physical items, as you said, but it DID tax their workers, much like the private sector's workers are taxed.

Please explain the 60%, you haven't cited resources.

[MarkDouglasC]

Saying Fairtax has some "grave problems'' is like saying The Magic Pony that shits gold has a problem trot.

The whole thing is bullshit -- its a fucking farce. Not sort of a farece, not kinda -- its pure bullshit.

[terinbune]

you need facts and sources to cite if you expect me to give your spewed rants any consideration.

The Government gets its money from taxpayers. If you're talking about the government taxing it's own expenditures, then yes, they do that now and would do that under the fair tax. I don't understand why you're acting so crazy over it.

[MarkDouglasC]

Your dumb ass still hasnt shown me one fuching government on fuching earth that has ever just charged itself a sales tax -- then counted that as income/

If thats fuching possible you retard -- then all counties would do that.

If you could do that you retard -- why tax people at all. Just tax government, leave people alone.

You dumb ass -- Fairtax is a fuching farce.

[CyberHart]

MarkDoublasC,

Where are the studies that show the tax rate would have to be 50%? The FairTax is revenue neutral meaning the rate would be no different than what we are collectively paying now (even if gov't pays taxes also), so unless we are paying 50% now we would not be paying it under the FairTax. For the most part, The FairTax is not about paying more or less. Its about transparency. Its about simplification.

[MarkDouglasC]

Transparency - are you fucking kidding me you dumb ass? IF it was transparent you lunatic, they wouldnt fucking hide the fact that they depend on getting about half the money FROM the government.

DO you fucking know, you retard, that it mentions this tax on government in passing -- deep down in the fine print.

Wonder the fuck why?

And if its trans fucking parent -- why is it none of you fuck knows that your tax could easily be greater than your fucking income retard?

[CyberHart]

MDC,

Really. I think its now apparent to all who the real dumb ass is here. You couldn't even answer a simple question about "where are the studies to support your baseless claim that tax rates would be 50%?"

Obvious to all, you have more time than brains. We all can't wait for your next idiotic rant. Maybe you will think the next one out a little better. You definitely have the time.

[MarkDouglasC]

No dumb ass -- dont give me your bullshit you retard.

Show me any fuching country on earth where the government pays itself a trillion dollars -- or any amount -- in sales tax and counts that as income.

Its dumber than dog shit you fuching idiot ---its wacko shit. Your dumb asses are being fooled.

This isnt rocket science you moron. FT pretends it can collect a trillion in sales taxes from the government -- so it can tell you dumb asses the rate would be 23%

Bullshit you idiot

[MarkDouglasC]

Are you retarded??

GOvernment paying its fuching self a trillion in sales tax is nothing new?

Who the fuch ties your shoes in the morning?

SHow me a government in the history of the fuching earth that got most of its revenue -- by taxing itself -- as Fairtax is telling you fuching gullible morons it can do.

Thats dumber than dog shit.

Fairtax is a FARCE -- the "leaders" know its a farce. Its not a serious plan.

[jboritzki]

Part of the money the government spends today comes back to itself as tax money. You can't seem to understand that, even though it is so simple, yet you call others retards? Have you lost your mind?

[MarkDouglasC]

You don't keep what you earn under Fairtax -- another of their bullshit deceptions.

Boortz has admitted -- for their lunatic math to work -- everyone has to DONATE --- thats right DONATE -- what they used to pay in taxes, back to their employer.

Can you frigging imagine? Talk about bullshit, this takes the cake.

Yes -- Boortz admitted it, cause he HAD to. For the math to work -- all of use would have to donate our tax savings back to our employer.

And then pay the tax!! Its BS.

[terinbune]

You can say boortz admitted it all day but until you can prove that I won't believe you. Give me an audio clip from his show. Link me to a reputable site where he is quoted.

[MarkDouglasC]

Fairtax is a farce, and the leaders know it. Their bullshit depends on several idiotic premises they deliberately hide from dumb ass sheep that support them.

One such bullshit -- they pretend to collect the largest sales tax on earth - -FROM the government. And they COUNT that as income.

That's right -- thats how stupid it is. The government becomes the biggest taxpayer -- and they COUNT that as income.

Pure bullshit - and they know it.

[epiphanygal]

This sounds more democratic. I will research to try to understand it better. Thanks for the website information!

[MarkDouglasC]

Fairtax sounds great! But the math is way way way off. For a sales tax to bring in enough revenue, repeated studies and analysis have shown conclusively the rate would have to be over 50%. The only way Fairtax got 23% is to pretend it can collect 800 billion in revenue FROM the government -- and other very odd things. Im all for trying this Fairtax, though. It would be very educational! But where are the leaders pushing it? They seem to have vanished.

[terinbune]

I would like to see you site your studies, as most that state that the FairTax would have to be 50% include exemptions, which aren't in H.R. 25 at all. By the way, the leaders pushing it are still out there. Congressman John Linder is the political pusher of the FairTax, and he's still pushing it quite hard. I encourage you to read The FairTax Book.

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

Another problem is what is a necessity. Is a two dollar burger count as a necessity and an eight dollar excessive? Are clothes necessary? Is a house necessary? It is also easy to imagine the prebates becoming bigger under pressure of PACs, similar to the rise in welfare benefits that occurred. It could easily spin into a guaranteed monthly income from there. It is not as difficult as some think to cut enough expenditure to eliminate federal direct taxes and run things on excise and state taxes.

[MarkDouglasC]

Slayer -- so its not diffuclt to cut the budget by 80% -- try cutting it 8%, or even .8 of a percent.

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

Removing the military from the occupations it is in, sell off our foreign military bases, and cease the military related activities of the other federal departments and close to 600 billion dollars would have been saved. If the government ceased the subsidies and bailout millions would be saved. Stop military intervention and economic favoritism and more than half the budget is cut, not to mention rolling back welfare. The people who resist change want you to think it is impossible. It is not.

[terinbune]

Your head-in-the-sand approach to military won't work. How long after we pull out of South Korea will it take for North Korea to invade them? How many other nations do you think will follow suit? How many nations will see this as a weakness on the part of the US? How many will take advantage of that?

[terinbune]

Poverty-level spending, that is, the spending necessary for a household of a given size to pay for it's necessities, is already defined by the Department of Health and Human Services. SO the equation for the prebate amount is already in place.

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

So the government decides how much money you need or maybe more interestingly how much money it need to tax you to provide you to live. The decisions left to appointed bureaucrats and not the true earner of the money. I would much rather just keep what I earn.

[terinbune]

I really don't understand how you're comprehending what I'm saying. The government would send out a prebate to untax the poor. It's not looking at how much you make at all. This is different from our current tax code, where the government takes from what you make depending on how much you make. Under the Fairtax, you WOULD keep what you earn. you AREN'T doing that now, because of the income tax. Is this that difficult to understand?!?

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

There are some grave problems with the fair tax. People will get the rebate and spend less on necessities and spend the extra on what they want. It is not giving back what you have spent but giving you money in the expectation you will spend it. In essence the government assumes what you will spend and gives it to you using tax dollars. You could easily buy fewer clothes than allotted and use the prebate on drugs or prostitutes. Not that is bad but it should be your own money.

[terinbune]

1. How the people spend their prebate isn't supposed to be regulated by the government. The government is merely giving you a means to completely un-tax yourself, if you so choose. You're basically saying that it shouldn't be done because people will spend it unethically. Are you saying that people don't do the same thing with their Tax Return now? How is this any different?

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

I get money from my prebate for money i am supposed to have spent on food, clothing or other necessities. If I spend it on anything else I am cheating the system because I am not paying as much as the prebate assumed, hence i am getting free money. The tax return now is decided after the goods are purchased or the work is done. I do not think their should be a tax on labor but the tax is still taken as a percentage of what was made not what is assumed to be made.

[terinbune]

How are you cheating the system? The purpose of the prebate is to cover the taxes you'd spend on the necessities of life up to the poverty level. How you spend it isn't cheating the system, you're going to get that money no matter how you use it. Basically the government is letting you decide how responsible you want to be with it. The prebate isn't on what is assumed to be made, it's not based on your income at all, but how large your family is.

[dtvgmedia]

argument lacks context

You get your prebate check and use it as part of a down payment on a car.

Well................

What else did you spend your money on to live though the month. Because of the prebate, you end up paying effectively no taxes on your spending up to the poverty level. It is essentially your choice how much you spend above the basic necessities to live.

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

The prebate check is for, say, 20% of $100 expected to go to "necessities" however the government has defined that. But you only spend $90 on those things. Hence $10 that should be taxed is not and you make $2. How is that for context?

[dtvgmedia]

So you stocked up 1 year supply & don't buy food for rest of the year. Your not cheating the system if you spend your prebate on things other then food. If you buy a 4 million dollar house you still are effectively not taxed up to poverty level. Spending any thing above that is.

Sometimes you buy more & sometimes you buy less according to your needs, but you always consume to live. Your effectively untaxed up to poverty level consuming. That covers poverty level, food clothing and housing.

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

In this case the people have payed 1 years worth of taxes on food and get it back over 12 months. That is fine. I am talking about people who will buy less to get more in the prebate.

[dtvgmedia]

Absurd: the prebate doesn't change how people spend.

Besides there R 2 many people that spend their current income on things other then whats "good for them". Big deal. Do U want government deciding what makes U happy, & what U can work for. Exemptions & exclusions R source of power 4 corrupt politicians and lobbyist, as well as costly in tax code complexity. How about U decide how U spend on what makes U happy. From declaration of independence "Life Liberty & the pursuit of happiness"

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

How do you know it does not change the way people spend? And it is my money that is why it should not be taxed at all. Besides the prebate covers the cost for certain necessities, not simply poverty level spending, and big gov should not be deciding what a necessity is and what is not necessary. Anything short of no tax just supports the government.

[dtvgmedia]

@Slayer The prebate is your money. You spend your money. You get back the taxes you pay up to poverty level spending.

It is your money that government is not laying claim too.