Presuppositional Apologetics - Part 1: Ultimate Authority

[12Monkeys8u]

Going around in circles with "christianity is truth because I say so" and the book is true because it says so. You are a silly unintelligent man. What a dupe. God told me yesterday that you and the rest of the world really know nothing.

[fighterace2688]

@ 3:40 Santa?

[NathanWubs]

I am glad to know who is the cause of the scourgh that is ray comfort. Bravo, for making banana man.

[NathanWubs]

I have a feeling that comments are pending approval.

[mLovelady30]

thegoodteacher(dot)com

[SirArghPirate]

Ok, so I have to sit through 2 hours in order to get his arguments, or does he summarize sometimes during the lecture?

[rpavich]

@SirArghPirate

Only if you want to understand what his argument is.

He's leading up to the argument: "The Christian God exists due to the impossibility of the contrary" or put another way; "To have knowledge of anything, you must first presuppose the Christian God" Or (sye doesn't put it this way but others do) "Only the Christian God provides the necessary preconditions for the existence of logic, knowledge, reason, and morality."

So there you go...the short version.

[SirArghPirate]

@rpavich Thanks. Okay, but how exactly does this imply the christian god? I mean, on basis of the premise and the conclusion of the argument, which is a prime example of a circular argument, any god would fit in. The problem is that the premise is flawed, which in turn invalidates the conclusion, and the argument fails.

That's based on the summed up version of the lecture you just gave me. I'll probably watch the full lecture once I have the time.

[rpavich]

@SirArghPirate

Well, as I said...there that was the short version. :) Nut shell....

In fact, any true ultimate authority must use itself as part of its own proof. Again, some degree of circular reasoning is involved, but it cannot be a simple "vicious" circle. It must be non-arbitrary. Consider logic: 1 - If there were no laws of logic, we couldn't make an argument. 2 - We can make an argument. 3 - Therefore, there must be laws of logic.

Circular yet perfectly valid.

[SirArghPirate]

@rpavich That's not exactly true. Yes, circular arguments

'can' be valid, but basing a conclusion on that alone is flawed (but I assume he also bases his conclusion on other arguments as well).

But in turn, when all comes to all, it still doesn't imply any specific god, or even that a god has to be present for logic to exist.

[rpavich]

@SirArghPirate

I don't think you can comment on what it does imply as you haven't heard his argument in full yet have you?

You sound like you've already made up your mind before you've even heard his whole video....

that sounds closed minded. :)

[SirArghPirate]

@rpavich You are right, I will do that when I have the time. Maybe we'll chat again then. :)

[rpavich]

@SirArghPirate

Sorry it took so long to respond...my EeePad was fritzing out.

Good deal...check his videos out...and then if there are questions...we can talk (but I'm not the expert...I was just trying to explain) :)

[btbbuilder]

@rpavich

You are right. Dont confuse me with the facts, I have already made up my mind. And they have teh audacity to call Believers Stupid. If Being stupid means following the evidence where it leads then Yup Im Stupid

[macgeek2004]

BTW, there's no better way to make a Christian become an Atheist then to have them read the ENTIRE Bible!

And to any Christians out there: if you think the Bible is such a good book, why don't you allow me to read to your children a few chapters of MY choosing? *evil smirk* lol, j/k, but do think about that.

[Joe881]

@macgeek2004 I'm sure Sye would have no problem with discussing this with you since you consider him cannon fodder, and you can be the one to shred him. That is unless your afraid?

[rpavich]

@macgeek2004

I have read my children the WHOLE bible...and no...I'm not ashamed of ANY of it...even the parts you smirk at.

Do you REALLY think that we've never heard this amazing accusation before?...Does this kind of lame argumentation REALLY work on the Christians you meet up with?

[macgeek2004]

Wow...this guy is setting himself up to be CANNON FODDER. There's a reason why debunking religious claims is known on the Internet as an intellectual "sport"...because EVERY religious argument is flawed in at least ONE way, GUARANTEED. (That's how they settle on a religious conclusion in the 1st place! Lol)

Anyway, 1st guy to intelectually rip this guy to SHREDS wins an Internet! ;~D lol

[SinisterSkip]

I agree "Most christians reject Him too". Because many christians

- Haven't read the bible

- Don't know the 10 commandments

- Have sinned hundreds if not thousands of times according to their own bible (but they haven't read it, so how can they know)

Face it, christianity is becoming a rare religion in the western world. More rare every year.

[Fletch6]

Sye? Do people actually pay you for doing this? That is quite a racket!

[mamaschristmasbunny]

Just because God's residual effect in any Atheists or Agnostics life has been met with decisive rejection of God...only to then wish God out by defining him out of existence of why God doesn't exist. If you are making claims to being a scientific mind you would better well minded to believe, he does exist. The proof is...there...in undeniable circumstance at least..."I don't see the wind but recognize it by the leaf on a tree; just because I don't see it doesn't mean wind isn't."

[14dicken]

Great video !

I'm guilty as accused !

But don't some of your other videos use the arguments he condemns ?

(William Lane Craig etc.)

[MyContext]

Any assumption can be made and the same assumption by context of belief is usable by every faith and many other notions.

The idea that everyone knows god is a lie to gross misrepresentation, based solely on the contradiction of claims among the believers - this is reason enough for many not to believe.

y

We have CLAIMS in various forms (many of which are contradictory), but there appears to be no god(s) of any sort present.

God - the Santa Claus for adults... :(

[Nocturnalux]

@MyContext Indeed. I do not know that God exists and plenty of others don't either.

[mamaschristmasbunny]

@MyContext, Sye brought up to Paul Byrd in this series,,, "can circular logic be fallacious?" Cause there is certain evidence of circumstance; that even in our courts of law that we have all validated as what we all accept-(as a purposed reason we have accepted) which bears to witness. With Sye in his argument you can come to a connective base find. Example, Context to Allegory- "I believe the sun is going to come up in the morning; just because I believe that it is, doesn't mean it won't. " :)

[MyContext]

@mamaschristmasbunny How does this relate to the pronouncements of believers wherein there is no support for the claims?