part 4: Another answer is that we cannot fully understand God and his ways. He knows everything, and we do not. Just because we can't explain how a good God and evil can both exist does not mean they CAN'T both exist. This is because "evil exists" and "God is good" are not contradictory statements, although that are difficult to reconcile.
part 3: One answer is that a world where people are free to commit evil is more beautiful, since those who do good are even more commendable. God would not allow evil if he could not draw a greater good. If you were making a movie, which would you prefer: one without any conflict or sadness, or one with conflict and sacrifice where good triumphs over evil? God is the same way.
part 2: It is also true that God could have created man free, without an inclination towards sin or evil, and in a happy, painless world. Since God did not do that, how can He be considered All-Good? Many Christians will admit that this is a tough question. (cont)
part 1: The argument an informed Christian would make is that God did not DIRECTLY create evil, but rather that he created man free to do good or evil. So God does ALLOW evil, there's no argument there. (cont)
Evil exists because God allows it too. The reason for this is to to with his ultimate plan - and answers the question why did God not create the best of all possible worlds? We can perceive of a better universe than the one we are in, and we would if possible create such a one, so why has God not done so? The answer involves evil's existence in the universe at the present time.
We carry our fathers sins not because God is a tyrant but because of His mercy. Bible mentions our greatest blessing is our children. I believe its partly because of their childlike innocence, it convicts us. We want better for them than we had. Also because of the unconditional love they bring, ya thats how much He cares.
God is going to remove the evil in the world once He redeems a people for Himself and judges Satan. As redeemed people we will be unable to be condemned by sin because of Christs righteousness.
God created evil to glorify Himself. If there was no darkness, what good would a candlelight be? Evil is used to contrast Gods righteousness. Man was also created to glorify God.
My fundie-to-English translation of this read: Jehovah is a rat bastard sonofabitch setting us up to fail because he has ego problems. If your god exists, he is not the god he claims to be.
People always want to bring God down to their level. Hes God, its a good thing for Him to be glorified. Its not ego because He is the righteous God, its not a sin to praise and worship all that is good.
So, he's the omnibenevolent god that created evil . . . ? That makes no sense. I know, you're going to say that god doesn't have to make human sense, but that's a cop out. If we understand "goodness" and god is not good, well, we can't say that god is still good because he is infinite.
This world is nothing compared to what awaits the true believer. We have and are going to receive so much, we are to be more than kings, joint heirs with God, because of the Christ. Gods bride is how the true believers are described in the Bible.
Somehow, I think it's a fool's errand to believe that the same omnibenevolent being that created evil in the first place is really planning good for the true believers. Many a husband has beaten the shit out of their wives while claiming to love them.
God also has a history of collective punishment, even with uninvolved parties. So, all of Adam and Eve's children are punished for the sins of their ancestors. That's how much your god loves you, he'll punish YOU for THEIR sins. You expect heaven to be wonderful? It's made by the same guy that created the earth.
what makes you sound stupid is that instead of looking at the evil that you do you look at adam and eve-the bible basically lets ppl know that we carry adams and eves traits just the same way you carry some of your parents trait-this understanding my friend is called the way life goes-and eveone can see what i am talking by looking at their own family behaviour/looks-try learning what hereditary means
God gave us free will, thats why evil came into existence, He knew what was going to happen, He didn't stop it because He chose to give us free will, and He wouldn't just uncreate us because we sinned, because He loves us.
Except our will isn't precisely free. There are lots of things I would want to do but can't. When you're omnipotent -- when you can do ANYTHING -- then you can do things that are contradictory to human reasoning. God could have made us with free will *and* without evil, if god so chose.
Free will is not ultimate power , its the ability to choose what you want to do with the power you have, this means our choices are limited, but we still can choose, i can choose heads or tails, but i don't have the power to make a differant face on the coin, but i can still choose heads or tails.
Evil is just going against God, and that is a choice, if there wasn't a choice you couldn't have free will. Evil is not an entity its a description of an action.
If God didn't allow us to go against Him,if He mind controlled us or something then He wouldn't be allowing us to exercise our free will in choosing the little power we have to not obey Him.
I am always amused about how when discussing god's mystery and power in other places the argument will go that we mortals can't understand god. But when the question of evil comes up, god suddenly DOES NOT have the power to make the impossible possible. Mat, your argument means god isn't all-powerful. If god is all-powerful, human logical categories DO NOT APPLY. If they do apply, god is not all-powerful.
well its true God can and does do things beyond our understanding, So prehaps debating this is silly, but people ask someone to put forward for a reason for evil, i presented you with one, another way i could tackle your arguement would to say God chose to do it this way, His way is always the best way even when we can't understand it. Evil & sin is our fault and God fixed the problem through Jesus Christ :)
Moving the goal posts indirectly violates free will. If someone's hand disappeared or turned to safety foam everytime they tried to hit someone, then there action would have no effect so indreictly they loose the ability to use the power they have the way they want, because God over bears on them with his almighty power against there will. So changeing the laws and rules of reality and moving it around us to stop us doing evil, such as redifing good & evil would break our free will.
Nonsense. Two reasons. First, by Xtians reasoning god DID change the rules, with Jesus. Second, god changing god's mind is a personal decision of god, and does not influence some else's free will. It might influence their actions, but so does the threat of hellfire, which is duress.
God didn't change the rules in Jesus, the price of sin has to be paid always because God is righteous, whether its by accepting that Jesus chose to take the punishment upon himself, or by rejecting the free gift and going to hell.
God doesn't change his mind. It only ever will seem like that from our human perspective, God already knows everything He's going to do for all eternity.
Changing the reality that someone decision exists with in, is differant to influencing someones decision using the threat of punishment.
If everytime you tried to choose the tails side of a coin God made both sides heads, then you would not be able to choose.
If God said if you choose heads then you will be rejecting me so you will go to hell, you could still choose heads, but you would have to face to consquence of your actions , which is fair, considering that God is a righteous and compeetely fair judge.
I really love watching your videos because you so often point out the issue i'm already thinking about when I'm watching a video.. plus you quite often put in a load of extra detail and references that I just gawk over... Thanks.
I totally agree with everything you said bro.
Metallic7Dust 4 years ago
part 4: Another answer is that we cannot fully understand God and his ways. He knows everything, and we do not. Just because we can't explain how a good God and evil can both exist does not mean they CAN'T both exist. This is because "evil exists" and "God is good" are not contradictory statements, although that are difficult to reconcile.
bistro39 4 years ago
which god?
TheFluffyDuck 4 years ago
This is an old argument and not constrained to any god.
therealdrag0 3 years ago
part 3: One answer is that a world where people are free to commit evil is more beautiful, since those who do good are even more commendable. God would not allow evil if he could not draw a greater good. If you were making a movie, which would you prefer: one without any conflict or sadness, or one with conflict and sacrifice where good triumphs over evil? God is the same way.
bistro39 4 years ago
part 2: It is also true that God could have created man free, without an inclination towards sin or evil, and in a happy, painless world. Since God did not do that, how can He be considered All-Good? Many Christians will admit that this is a tough question. (cont)
bistro39 4 years ago
part 1: The argument an informed Christian would make is that God did not DIRECTLY create evil, but rather that he created man free to do good or evil. So God does ALLOW evil, there's no argument there. (cont)
bistro39 4 years ago
Evil exists because God allows it too. The reason for this is to to with his ultimate plan - and answers the question why did God not create the best of all possible worlds? We can perceive of a better universe than the one we are in, and we would if possible create such a one, so why has God not done so? The answer involves evil's existence in the universe at the present time.
koyhayleth 4 years ago
We carry our fathers sins not because God is a tyrant but because of His mercy. Bible mentions our greatest blessing is our children. I believe its partly because of their childlike innocence, it convicts us. We want better for them than we had. Also because of the unconditional love they bring, ya thats how much He cares.
Uaz31 4 years ago
God is going to remove the evil in the world once He redeems a people for Himself and judges Satan. As redeemed people we will be unable to be condemned by sin because of Christs righteousness.
Uaz31 4 years ago
This is also why God created evil.
Uaz31 4 years ago
God created evil to glorify Himself. If there was no darkness, what good would a candlelight be? Evil is used to contrast Gods righteousness. Man was also created to glorify God.
Uaz31 4 years ago
My fundie-to-English translation of this read: Jehovah is a rat bastard sonofabitch setting us up to fail because he has ego problems. If your god exists, he is not the god he claims to be.
CPXB 4 years ago
People always want to bring God down to their level. Hes God, its a good thing for Him to be glorified. Its not ego because He is the righteous God, its not a sin to praise and worship all that is good.
Uaz31 4 years ago
So, he's the omnibenevolent god that created evil . . . ? That makes no sense. I know, you're going to say that god doesn't have to make human sense, but that's a cop out. If we understand "goodness" and god is not good, well, we can't say that god is still good because he is infinite.
CPXB 4 years ago
This world is nothing compared to what awaits the true believer. We have and are going to receive so much, we are to be more than kings, joint heirs with God, because of the Christ. Gods bride is how the true believers are described in the Bible.
Uaz31 4 years ago
Somehow, I think it's a fool's errand to believe that the same omnibenevolent being that created evil in the first place is really planning good for the true believers. Many a husband has beaten the shit out of their wives while claiming to love them.
CPXB 4 years ago
True, God calls that chastisement when we need correction. Doesn't mean He doesn't love us, rather the opposite.
Uaz31 4 years ago
God also has a history of collective punishment, even with uninvolved parties. So, all of Adam and Eve's children are punished for the sins of their ancestors. That's how much your god loves you, he'll punish YOU for THEIR sins. You expect heaven to be wonderful? It's made by the same guy that created the earth.
CPXB 4 years ago
what makes you sound stupid is that instead of looking at the evil that you do you look at adam and eve-the bible basically lets ppl know that we carry adams and eves traits just the same way you carry some of your parents trait-this understanding my friend is called the way life goes-and eveone can see what i am talking by looking at their own family behaviour/looks-try learning what hereditary means
forlatagate 4 years ago
not that wife beating is acceptable...just an analogy.
Uaz31 4 years ago
God gave us free will, thats why evil came into existence, He knew what was going to happen, He didn't stop it because He chose to give us free will, and He wouldn't just uncreate us because we sinned, because He loves us.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
Except our will isn't precisely free. There are lots of things I would want to do but can't. When you're omnipotent -- when you can do ANYTHING -- then you can do things that are contradictory to human reasoning. God could have made us with free will *and* without evil, if god so chose.
CPXB 4 years ago
Free will is not ultimate power , its the ability to choose what you want to do with the power you have, this means our choices are limited, but we still can choose, i can choose heads or tails, but i don't have the power to make a differant face on the coin, but i can still choose heads or tails.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
Evil is just going against God, and that is a choice, if there wasn't a choice you couldn't have free will. Evil is not an entity its a description of an action.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
If God didn't allow us to go against Him,if He mind controlled us or something then He wouldn't be allowing us to exercise our free will in choosing the little power we have to not obey Him.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
I am always amused about how when discussing god's mystery and power in other places the argument will go that we mortals can't understand god. But when the question of evil comes up, god suddenly DOES NOT have the power to make the impossible possible. Mat, your argument means god isn't all-powerful. If god is all-powerful, human logical categories DO NOT APPLY. If they do apply, god is not all-powerful.
CPXB 4 years ago
well its true God can and does do things beyond our understanding, So prehaps debating this is silly, but people ask someone to put forward for a reason for evil, i presented you with one, another way i could tackle your arguement would to say God chose to do it this way, His way is always the best way even when we can't understand it. Evil & sin is our fault and God fixed the problem through Jesus Christ :)
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
God knew we were going to sin before the creation of the world, He let it happen.
He could of fixed and stopped the problem and He did, through Jesus, and throguh this solution He also demonstrated His infinite love for us.
So i guess the way He chose to handle it is probably differant to the way I would of handled it, but i trust He knows best.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
God chose to create evil . . . but it's our fault? That is bizarre thinking. Just bizarre.
CPXB 4 years ago
We have a choice we can choose to go against God, or to obey Him.
God didn't cause the evil to happen He just gave us the ability to choose between to two, Free will.
If God had forced a situation where we could only choose God it wouldn't be free will. (or free will how he wanted free will to be)
I believe God likes order and I believe thats why we have rules in the universe such as logic and physics, and not just a random ball of randomness.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
God also has the choice to decide if disobedience is evil. This would not violate human free will.
CPXB 4 years ago
Moving the goal posts indirectly violates free will. If someone's hand disappeared or turned to safety foam everytime they tried to hit someone, then there action would have no effect so indreictly they loose the ability to use the power they have the way they want, because God over bears on them with his almighty power against there will. So changeing the laws and rules of reality and moving it around us to stop us doing evil, such as redifing good & evil would break our free will.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
Nonsense. Two reasons. First, by Xtians reasoning god DID change the rules, with Jesus. Second, god changing god's mind is a personal decision of god, and does not influence some else's free will. It might influence their actions, but so does the threat of hellfire, which is duress.
CPXB 4 years ago
God didn't change the rules in Jesus, the price of sin has to be paid always because God is righteous, whether its by accepting that Jesus chose to take the punishment upon himself, or by rejecting the free gift and going to hell.
God didn't overlook sin, He dealt with it.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
God doesn't change his mind. It only ever will seem like that from our human perspective, God already knows everything He's going to do for all eternity.
Changing the reality that someone decision exists with in, is differant to influencing someones decision using the threat of punishment.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
If everytime you tried to choose the tails side of a coin God made both sides heads, then you would not be able to choose.
If God said if you choose heads then you will be rejecting me so you will go to hell, you could still choose heads, but you would have to face to consquence of your actions , which is fair, considering that God is a righteous and compeetely fair judge.
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
Here here!
Donweary 4 years ago
He did remove the sin and leave everything else, Jesus came and took sin upon himself.
God has better timing than anyone, because He is God.
(although i think its silly sometimes to try to apply logical arguments to a God who created and is beyond logic, He's not bound by anything)
MatthewHudghton 4 years ago
Lol i dont think anyone has enough time to properly argue this idiots logic. He argues well, but illogically, and frequently.
againstthehumanrace 4 years ago
Thank you very much. ;)
CPXB 4 years ago
I really love watching your videos because you so often point out the issue i'm already thinking about when I'm watching a video.. plus you quite often put in a load of extra detail and references that I just gawk over... Thanks.
RosieDesire 4 years ago