Allan Bloom on Nietzsche 1983 (2 of 5)

[dylanesc]

the relationship between literature and philosophy still excites me

[pennymonique]

wtf is he talking about? when i read nietzsche, i connect with him. i understand that bloom was a celebrity professor, with emphasis on celebrity. but to me he--not that i have read him really, but as evidenced by this audio--represents all that is wrong with the academy. the esteemed gatekeepers are so fond of listening to themselves, in their egoistic condescending digressions, that the focus is lost. by design.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

@pennymonique Incidently Nietzsche refered to them as the rats of the library.

[gjcarrow]

Americans. It's as though they equate intelligence with superiority. It would be like an Olympic swimmer going to a local public pool, and looking at the people swimming as inferiors. It's very off-putting. Can anyone explain this phenomena to me? I would have to assume that it's rooted in insecurity, but does it work at making the person feel any better about themself because they're more learned on a particular subject than someone else? It borders on pathetic.

[tommybrown187]

@gjcarrow yes, youre right. As an american i can tell you our culture and society is fixated on winning!! At all cost and by any means. Results are what matter. We promote and create "stars" or even idolatry. I think its human nature that insecurity breeds desire. Ppl work so hard at something because they had some deeply rooted insecurity about it. Thats how they became good enough to win. Maybe you're right, its pathetic. IDK its just the culture of trying to be the best and win

[tommybrown187]

@gjcarrow intelligence doesnt mean they have character

[gjcarrow]

Will someone explain something to me? I happend upon a quote from Nietzsche that I thought was interesting, so I decided to learn a little about him on the internet. I start to listen to this lecture, as well as read the comments. I've noticed, with certain intelligent people (not all of them, thank the easter bunny), a kind of animosity; either overt or veiled. The comments here prove this point to me, with all the vitrol, and even this Bloom character, who seems very condescending, towards...

[JOEFRO2]

@Delocrates: You betray an appalling depth of ignorance. Hegel was the first to formulate the slave/master scheme, not Nietzsche. Get your facts straight.

[Delocrates]

Hello JOEFRO2, I did not assert that Nietzsche was the first to formulate the slave/master scheme, I was referring to Nietzsche's particular master morality/slave morality dichotomy that he developed himself. You are insulting me for an assertion that I did not make.

[scotty123123]

it's a seminar rather than a lecture

[morpheus8624]

@Delocrates i wouldn't compare modern democracy with ancient greek democracy

[morpheus8624]

@Delocrates I wasn't disagreeing with you or asserting that moderns democratic societies are mediocre, just that from Nietszche's view they would be. Everything you state about Switzerland he would find as fitting a slave-morality or whatever.

[haireephetus]

@Delocrates The idea of slave morality is one that Nietzsche (I think) would claim to be part of democracy because as a political system it will muzzle and control the higher man. Democracy is the lowest base from which to draw support for a governing body, so it will be the most representative, but Nietzsche would claim that is the problem. What is wrong with human beings wanting sovereignty is that all men are not equal, and therefore why should they all have equal say in government.

[MarcusCMarcellus]

@Delocrates

I rarely respond to comments on the videos I post but I entirely agree with you. I've always thought of Nietzsche as one of the most over-rated thinkers in European history. His currency with contemporary people, i.e. with delusional narcissist, speaks volumes about him. Whereas Montaigne is ignored or forgotten by the hipster crowd, Nietzsche thunderous platitudes still move the democratic soul. His boasting and pseudo-aristocratic prattle leave me cold.

Thanks for commenting.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

@Delocrates Who were the writers of the Declararation of Independence? Maybe Englishmen???

[polyhyper]

@MarcusCMarcellus Hmm . . .Heidegger, Foucault, Derrida, Deluze...all hipsters and delusional narcissists. But wasn't Nietzsche also multi-faceted, multi-leveled, and protean,and like a true artist, ambiguous and a perspectivist? A lot of the philosophy and books that followed his demise would never have been written without Nietzsche. Also, a lot of creative works like those of Thomas Mann or even Apocalypse Now would not have come about.

[MarcusCMarcellus]

@polyhyper I like Heidegger...somewhat. I know that's a contradiction given what I think of Nietzsche, but there it is. Being and Time shows a rigor unknown to the syphilis-ridden poet. And Heidegger knew that America and the Soviet Union were metaphysically more alike than appeared. Obviously Nietzsche was a genius and uber influential, etc, he just does nothing for me personally.

[snakeking992000]

@polyhyper Hipsters? Delusional narcissists? That's the first time I ever heard that, and it gave me quite a good laugh -- thank you. Have a look at Heidegger's own comments on Nietzsche -- the four Nietzsche volumes to be specific.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

@Delocrates Because something is a dichotomy doesn't make it fallacious and Nietzsche does state the vearering degress of master and slave morality. Maybe you've never read The Geneology of Morals or Beyond Good and Evil. Then again Nietzsche wasn't an absolutist, even if his writing portrays him as one.

[haireephetus]

@Delocrates In the ancient Greek world, most tyrants came to power with the support of the masses (like Pisistratus) against a ruling class of oligarchs (the Eupatridai), which controlled the people. In modern history you see the same thing with figures like Napoleon who found great support.

As to whether Greek democracy made it stronger I think is an open question. It is the ill-informed democracy who wanted war so bad with Syracuse that lead to the defeat at the hands of the Spartans.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

@Delocrates Mediocre as in a form of style. It did become mediocre. You can see it when you compare pre-democratic artwork and arcitecture to post-democratic. A feeling of stregth was lost. You're thinking along terms of cultural and political power. Maybe learn what Nietzsche was saying before making baseless assertions about what he did and didn't mean.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

@Delocrates I was refering more to Homer and Hesiod.

Hegel and Descartes were charlatans and master sophists. Derrida was a charlatan and master sophist. Nietzsche is probably the most misunderstood philosopher of our era.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

@Delocrates And???

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

@Delocrates Again you confuse political and economical power with mediocre, which wasn't what Nietzsche ment. The power of the state isn't as important as the person within it. Nietzsche wasn't political. He focused on the individual. Your accusations about charlatans and sophistry are unfounded and meaningless. Politics and economics are not the same as Philosophy.

[Onieracraft]

@danieljliversLXXXIX

Descartes is a significant figure in the history of Philosophy, but he was significant by accident, not by intention. he is not the father of rationalism but irrationalism.

[zarisstokell]

paleo-conservative.

[bahramf]

This isn't a very great lecture. He mumbles and stumbles everything. 

He doesn't get past the superficial influence Nietzsche had on pop-culture to this point.

I hope the third part gets better.

[scotty123123]

Thanks!