Hadiths confirm Muhammad was never harmed by Meccans
Allah's Apostle said, "Doesn't it astonish you how Allah protects me from the Quraish's abusing & cursing?(Bukhari 56:733)
One Quraish named Uqba "throttled" him, but he was released unharmed:"Then they left him.That is the worst that I ever saw the Quraish do to him - Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 184"
AS A PROPHET OF GOD, Muhammad had an opportunity to forgive Uqba but was captured and 'slaughtered' after Battle of Badr, bcoz Muhammad is prophet of ALLAH
Q 2:193 And fight them until religion be only for Allah
NO WHERE IN QURAN/HADITH SAY MUHAMMAD WAS ATTACKED PHYSICALLY, yet Muhammad attacked and killed people BECAUSE PEOPLE DID NOT LISTEN TO HIM
(Hisham ibn al-Kalbi. p17 Kitab al-Asnam):
'We have been told that the Apostle of Allah said,"I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people (Quraish)." - WELL!? no one killed him then!
SUDDENLY, IT IS SELF DEFENSE TO KILL PEOPLE FOR 20% WAR LOOT, Q 8:1?
Islam is entirely based on lies to the extent that liars for the cause of Islam readily lie and never even notice they are lying.
Quran 72:15 says non-Muslims are firewood of hell, kill them to keep hell fire brning,
In Quran 9:73 Muslim allah says: O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites [those who leave Islam] and be harsh [kill] upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.
In arabic, QURAN WORD 'qātilū' means kill, murder. NOT fight, harsh etc.
@miladmeah You are so full of hate that you lie about the Quran. Your mis-quotes are out of text and insanely reveal your frailties and fears. Don't shoot off your mouth it only shows your ignorance.
I just wish PB Schori would spend time talking about ABORTION, which has murdered 50 million black children in the United States since Roe. My problem is that the liberal agenda, should be separate from the libertarian arguments (from a biblical perspective) about homosexuality, and the earth for that matter. EVERYONE should be against abortion, as much as against slavery. I pray that she address this issue.
Clearly, while Jesus accepted sinners, such as divorcees (like myself), prostitutes, etc, He did not ASK THEM TO LEAD HIS MINISTRY !
I support gays living their lives and celebrating the Risen Christ, but I am not comfortable with them leading a church, being ordained or married in the church.
@ScottMacFie So, you believe that while people of a sexuality differing from your own can commune with Christ in the most sacred sacrament of Holy Eucharist they cannot also do his ministry in the realm of pastoral care simply because you aren't "comfortable" with it? Please, give me a break. Your theology is weak, my friend.
@zdrastvoite1: Apparently a lot of people think the ECUSA has weak theology because they continue to leave it in droves.
Also, did you read Schori's most recent letter about the former Catholic Priest she let into the EC priesthood who had sexually abused a minor? Read it. No wonder our young boys continue to be victimized, because apparently it's not a big deal when it's a boy.
Do you believe boys should be subjected to sexual abuse by church leaders?
The Episcopal Church in the US will be nothing but a real estate holding company within 30 years. The demographics are cast in stone. It is mathematically assured. Hence - the inclusiveness attempt. Anyone - please! Morality is no longer an issue. The idea of sin is gone - (unless you vote conservative of course).
@wavertree558 : You nailed it. I am sorry to see it too, as I have been attending for nearly 30 decades off and on (depending on where I lived). The final work of the Bishops now, whether they admit it or not, is to liquidate the property and assets in toto.
Notice also, although we claim to be so inclusive, there are almost NO African-Americans in ECUSA.
@wavertree558: Well, and also, it is an OVERWHELMINGLY "White" WASPY church, so the demographics are already not in it's favor. We left as my wife and I never felt comfortable with the patronizing upper class snootiness that typicaly defines such liberal bastions. They don't get it, still. No wonder they are about 90 percent white (and I suspect in the US probably a higher ratio).
I am a proud Anglican/Episcopalian! And I'm proud that this wonderful thought-provoking woman is leading my Church! My prayers are with you as well as the Archbishop of Canterbury and ALL of the Anglican Communion.
Listen to 4:47. Revelation 22 says that those who take away from the Bible will have their part in the Tree of Life taken away. She perverts God's Word as she fails to call all sinners to repentance. Unrepentant sin at best will cause one to lose spiritual rewards. Katharin Schori minimizes the strong commands God makes to us to avoid sin and instead promotes it. How can anyone calling himself a child of God condone this blasphemy?
Thanks for your welcoming message. It was 3/4 of the way through before you mentioned the "Gay" issue. Those who oppose GLBT Christians and non-Christians are like the "winners who write history" and become the dominant paradigm/ We do not need to soft pedal GLBT rights within these churches as 2nd class citizens but go straight on (no pun) to Christ with without the Church. Without it, there would be no Protestant Reformation, or Henry VIII leaving the Catholic Church.
This is the reason why I joined the Episcopal Church. It is a very up to date church in term of opening its doors for everyone. This having a room for all is what the heart of Christ really is, and the Episcopal Church is such a great of witness of that today! Thanks a lot Bishop Catharine!
Such a remarkable, articulate, compassionate, and spiritually lead, bishop! Making manifest the examples of love offered for us to emulate by God, through our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. Bravo! (Archbishop/Presiding Bishop) Schori. Amen.
I don't really know where to come down on this. On the one hand, the blessing of same sex marriages and ordination of gay priests is troublesome. No, we shouldn't scream at the homosexual community and tell them to repent or go to hell. I have no problem with them being baptized or receiving communion. After all, we are all sinners who require Christ's grace to be saved. Yet, blessing same sex marriages and ordaining actively gay priests IS something else all together.
Then again, wasn't Christ never the god of the perfect but the god of the imperfect. The god of the sick, the lame, the criminal, the outcast of society.
Still, one can also compare the homosexual not to the sick and lame but to the criminal who must repent first in order to seek salvation and eternal life.
It's a complex issue, and it is tearing the Episcopal church apart. I really hope we don't disappear; I'll have to go to the Roman Catholic church, where I'll have to be baptized again.
Your making the wrong choices! Diversity? How can a house of two masters stand? Bravo to those who are stripped of the Episcopal Name from YOUR administration! You foul woman! You'll lead your people into hell.
I would not want to be her, due to her false teaching, on judgment day! Yikes! Especially leading little ones astray........woe to her! And all under the guise of Christianity! What a joke and exceedingly sad.
A very reasoned and compassionate appeal. I am not an Episcopalian (at least not yet), but it is exactly the striving for unity, for service, for understanding, and for acceptance that Bishop Schori exhibits here that makes the Episcopalian community seem inviting and appealing. It is a courageous community that aims to embrace members diverse in their spirituality, their politics, and the affairs of their personal lives.
Tigerpaws9097826:" embrace members diverse in their spirituality"
1) The episcopalian Church has compromised with the world and is not following or teaching God's word. Homosexuality is a sin in the eye's of God,especially within the Church. This Church embarrasses sinful behavior accepting it instead of leading the sinner to repentance.
2) The Bible also teaches that a women can not hold the position of the Pastor (overseer) in the Church.
The Bible actually contains quite a few laws that both Christian and non-Christian society have come to cast aside over time. For instance, we do not impose the death penalty on drunkards or males who disobey their parents, we do not practice slavery, we do not stone our "stubborn and rebellious sons" - all of which are proscribed in Deuteronomy. When justice and compassion collide with written laws, it is IMHO worth the risk to allow justice and compassion to rule the day.
Tigerpaws9097826:"do not impose the death penalty....practice slavery"
Christians are under a new covenant through Jesus Christ, we are not under the Old Testament rules and regulations. We are not under the law, but under Grace. Christ has lived a perfect sinless life and died for our sins on the cross. It is His righteousness that is imputed on to us and we are justified before God through Him. The moral law, written on our hearts still stands. God does not change His mind, humans do.
Then - it seems that not being under OT rules would apply as much to rules addressing sexual practice as much as to those pointed at drunkenness, slavery, or disobedience. I'm not advocating a libertine lifestyle in regards to any of these, but just following your train of thought to what seems its logical conclusion. The only New Testament reference to homosexuality I'm aware of is Romans 1:26-27, admonishing heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts that are against their nature.
Christians are not under the ceremonial and dietary laws, the moral and ethical law is reaffirmed in the NT.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1Cr 1 :9,10
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified...1Cr 6:11
I think you mean 1 Cor 6:9-10, and the word your 1979 NKJV Bible translates as homosexual is the Greek word "malakoi" which literally means "soft-ones." The 15th century KJV translates this word as "effeminate." Before that, the 5th century Vulgate translates it as "molles," meaning soft or effeminate. In The Republic, Book III, written about 360 BC, Plato said that too much music makes a man "malakoteroi." I doubt Plato was saying music makes a man gay and I doubt Paul had that in mind either.
So you did a word study on "malakoi" which has a hotly debated meaning? Thats not the only reference my GNT makes to homosexuality as a sin. You can throw around the historical critical method all you want to, but you cant disregard all of the references in totality! BTW, my BHS and the LXX have something to say on the issue as well. As for a former comment you made, my church is very conservative and apposed slavery, but the Bible is less than clear on the subject. Read Romans 13.
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Jam 4:4
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands,you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Jam4:7;8
You give me hope, thank you! Can you do me a favor and read an e-mail that I am going to send you? I am not sure how you'd react, but I want to know what you think.
Most reverend Bishop Shori? Did Jesus call Himself most reverend? He who exalts himself shall be brought down, Jesus taught us to be humble . According to the Bible and according to Paul a women is not permitted to be the head of a Church. Episcopalians have departed from the faith and do not follow what the Bible teaches and are apostates just as the Bible speaks of. This women is a blasphemer and a deceiver that leads people astray.
Woooooooo boy! You better be a devout Roman Catholic. Otherwise you'd be the pot calling the kettle black. Better not be a Protestant fundamentalist, else you might want to turn that pointed finger the other way.
No, I won't flee from the house of God! Never! I'm going there tonight for Tuesday Night Folk Mass & a pancake dinner afterward! Yum! God has blessed me, & if I were to ignore those blessings & pass them off as "blinding" then THAT would be the true sin. I thank God for my family, my friends, my dog, my cat, my birds, my education at Auburn, the food on my plate, the opportunity to help other ppl., & everything else that's wonderful in my life! The Lord is so good to me! I'll praise Him forever.
You take the Bible too literally. Exodus 35:3 says "You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day." So what if someone comes home from church on a cold February day and decides to light the fireplace? Is that an abomination? Num. 5:12-31, tells us that if we suspect our wife has committed adultery, she is to be tested by making her drink water mixed with dirt. If she gets sick, she is guilty. Do you recommend that we implement this test procedure?
I'm just curious... are you saying that because we do not obey OT ceremonial and civil laws, we can ignore the moral ones as well? Are you saying that because we can eat shrimp, it's therefore ok to murder?
And what about the issue that it is was not our decision to keep moral laws and not ceremonial laws, but Jesus and the Apostles themselves who made this decision? (Mt 15:17-19, Acts 15). Are you accusing *them* of picking and choosing?
I'm confused. Is slavery a ceremonial issue or a moral one? Hmm? Most of the laws had to do with either symbolism or hygiene. Shatnez symbolized Cane/linen and Able/wool. Homosexuality and adultery were ways to spread VD. Odd that they put cursing your parents in the same verse and all 3 were punishable by death. Would you kill your son if he cursed you? Probably not. Jesus on the other hand had only 2 laws: 1-Love God. 2-Love your neighbor. That is what TRR Schori says we should concentrate on.
Re: kill disobedient kids. Do you think it's good for a child to be a spoiled brat? Probably not. You are confusing a moral principle with punishments enacted by a particular civil government.
Do you think 'Love' is letting people do whatever their desire leads them to do? Read Lev 19:17-18.
I hope this clears up your confusion. I'd love to discuss this with you if you are serious about learning these distinctions instead of repeating liberal boilerplate.
Wow! I've never been called a liberal before. Many things to respond to here; I can only concentrate on one. Obviously, CAndiron does not understand sarcasm. My point is that slavery was moral and legal in biblical times, and in the US up to 140 years ago, when honest, upright, moral men, on both sides of the issue, fought and died over it. The crises facing the Episcopal Church today are not that dramatic, but again there are honest, upright, moral people, on both sides who simply do not agree.
I do not consider R.L.Dabney and his ilk to be 'honest', 'upright' and 'moral'. The NT clearly frowns upon slavery (Philem in addition to 1Ti 1:10) and not one calling himself a Christian had any business owning slaves or participating in the slave trade (even ignoring the fact that OT slavery is not analogous to southern slavery). Even if Dabney et al had clean consciences, they should still be corrected (as Paul had to correct Peter) since they are *wrong*, as I hope you would agree.
Dabney, Thornwell, etc. are long dead. It doesn't matter what they thought. Different circumstances, different reality. Looking back, we can say they were wrong on one issue. But in their day, they were the leaders of hard nosed conservative Christians who thought they were right on every issue. Shows how wrong you can be when you keep your mind shut. Which brings me back to my original point that at least one thing, lawful/moral, in Biblical times, is not lawful/moral today. Change can be good.
We're talking past each other - let me just observe that if you are involved in a besetting sin, you need to repent. Don't kid yourself that you aren't 'liberal'. It only takes one crime to make you a criminal, the other thousands of laws you kept count for nothing. Stop telling yourself that you must be enslaved to sin, that it is part of your identity. All people need to learn to overcome the fleshly impulses. This is not even remotely the same thing as race.
Actually I denounce satan, as I profess every time we have a baptism. Yes, I am Episcopalian. If you want to know our beliefs, be open-minded enough to check out the Nicene Creed. I choose to believe in God's grace and love, which you apparently don't understand very well. PSALM 30:5... If i'm such a sinner and God hates me and damns me, how can you explain all the blessings in my life? A loving family, wonderful friends, my dog and my cat, food on my plate, opportunities to help other people..
LOLOLOLOLOLLLLLL!!! What are these videos of mine you've seen? I don't have any videos like that. Most of the videos I comment on on here are about Auburn football lol. How am I a "tree hugging satan worshiper"? That's complete nonsense. You and I both sin; it's a fact of life. However, I recognize that I'm not perfect, while you claim to be perfect. I turn to God regarding my imperfections and He and I work it out. Being saved is not a destination; it's a continual process.
You don't know what I support. You put words in my mouth. You sicken ME. The Bible also says not to mix fabrics, and that if children disobey their parents they should be stoned to death. It also says not to eat shellfish. Do you have any cotton/polyester blends? I live the best life I can and give thanks to God for all the good things I have in my life. I think this makes God happy. I'm not perfect, and neither are you.
Amen! Jesus said, "He who believes in me shall by no means be put to shame."
1norville 3 months ago
The Episcopal Church is a false church.
ZebraSpider454 4 months ago
@ZebraSpider454 And a real church is...?
zdrastvoite1 3 months ago
@zdrastvoite1 --The real Church founded by Jesus on St Peter aka Cephas is the Catholic Church, both eastern and western rites.
ZebraSpider454 3 months ago
I love the Bishop and I love my Church.
gapdweller 4 months ago
Hadiths confirm Muhammad was never harmed by Meccans
Allah's Apostle said, "Doesn't it astonish you how Allah protects me from the Quraish's abusing & cursing?(Bukhari 56:733)
One Quraish named Uqba "throttled" him, but he was released unharmed:"Then they left him.That is the worst that I ever saw the Quraish do to him - Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 184"
AS A PROPHET OF GOD, Muhammad had an opportunity to forgive Uqba but was captured and 'slaughtered' after Battle of Badr, bcoz Muhammad is prophet of ALLAH
miladmeah 5 months ago
Q 2:193 And fight them until religion be only for Allah
NO WHERE IN QURAN/HADITH SAY MUHAMMAD WAS ATTACKED PHYSICALLY, yet Muhammad attacked and killed people BECAUSE PEOPLE DID NOT LISTEN TO HIM
(Hisham ibn al-Kalbi. p17 Kitab al-Asnam):
'We have been told that the Apostle of Allah said,"I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people (Quraish)." - WELL!? no one killed him then!
SUDDENLY, IT IS SELF DEFENSE TO KILL PEOPLE FOR 20% WAR LOOT, Q 8:1?
miladmeah 5 months ago
Islam is entirely based on lies to the extent that liars for the cause of Islam readily lie and never even notice they are lying.
Quran 72:15 says non-Muslims are firewood of hell, kill them to keep hell fire brning,
In Quran 9:73 Muslim allah says: O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites [those who leave Islam] and be harsh [kill] upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.
In arabic, QURAN WORD 'qātilū' means kill, murder. NOT fight, harsh etc.
miladmeah 8 months ago
@miladmeah You are so full of hate that you lie about the Quran. Your mis-quotes are out of text and insanely reveal your frailties and fears. Don't shoot off your mouth it only shows your ignorance.
bobobho1 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bobobho1 said: You are so full of hate that you lie about the Quran.
HATE IS IN THE QURAN
Quran 60:4 - Enmity and hate shall reign between us forever
Q 9:29 -"Kill (q-t-l) those who believe not in Allah
Q 5:51 -"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends
I CAN GO ON AND ON - God's words can never be mis-quoted ONLY HUMAN WORDS ARE - proof Quran was written by Muhammad
for more visit: prophetofdoom.ne t & alisina.or g
miladmeah 5 months ago
I have always been told that Episcopal is "Diet Catholic" watching this I can see they are VERY different churches.
petermanz12 9 months ago
I just wish PB Schori would spend time talking about ABORTION, which has murdered 50 million black children in the United States since Roe. My problem is that the liberal agenda, should be separate from the libertarian arguments (from a biblical perspective) about homosexuality, and the earth for that matter. EVERYONE should be against abortion, as much as against slavery. I pray that she address this issue.
ScottMacFie 9 months ago
Clearly, while Jesus accepted sinners, such as divorcees (like myself), prostitutes, etc, He did not ASK THEM TO LEAD HIS MINISTRY !
I support gays living their lives and celebrating the Risen Christ, but I am not comfortable with them leading a church, being ordained or married in the church.
ScottMacFie 10 months ago
@ScottMacFie So, you believe that while people of a sexuality differing from your own can commune with Christ in the most sacred sacrament of Holy Eucharist they cannot also do his ministry in the realm of pastoral care simply because you aren't "comfortable" with it? Please, give me a break. Your theology is weak, my friend.
zdrastvoite1 3 months ago
@zdrastvoite1: Apparently a lot of people think the ECUSA has weak theology because they continue to leave it in droves.
Also, did you read Schori's most recent letter about the former Catholic Priest she let into the EC priesthood who had sexually abused a minor? Read it. No wonder our young boys continue to be victimized, because apparently it's not a big deal when it's a boy.
Do you believe boys should be subjected to sexual abuse by church leaders?
ScottMacFie 3 months ago
@ArmoredEpiscopalian --Im sure the episcopal church has its molesters; the problem is the media just isnt interested.
WayOfTheMaster454 10 months ago
This chick is promoting moral and doctrinal reletivism; since the Roman Catholic church refused to do so, Satan founded the Episcopal Church.
Come home to Rome.
WayOfTheMaster454 1 year ago
The Episcopal Church in the US will be nothing but a real estate holding company within 30 years. The demographics are cast in stone. It is mathematically assured. Hence - the inclusiveness attempt. Anyone - please! Morality is no longer an issue. The idea of sin is gone - (unless you vote conservative of course).
wavertree558 1 year ago
@wavertree558 : You nailed it. I am sorry to see it too, as I have been attending for nearly 30 decades off and on (depending on where I lived). The final work of the Bishops now, whether they admit it or not, is to liquidate the property and assets in toto.
Notice also, although we claim to be so inclusive, there are almost NO African-Americans in ECUSA.
ScottMacFie 10 months ago
@wavertree558: Well, and also, it is an OVERWHELMINGLY "White" WASPY church, so the demographics are already not in it's favor. We left as my wife and I never felt comfortable with the patronizing upper class snootiness that typicaly defines such liberal bastions. They don't get it, still. No wonder they are about 90 percent white (and I suspect in the US probably a higher ratio).
ScottMacFie 3 months ago
I am a proud Anglican/Episcopalian! And I'm proud that this wonderful thought-provoking woman is leading my Church! My prayers are with you as well as the Archbishop of Canterbury and ALL of the Anglican Communion.
jmoore1270 1 year ago 3
Listen to 4:47. Revelation 22 says that those who take away from the Bible will have their part in the Tree of Life taken away. She perverts God's Word as she fails to call all sinners to repentance. Unrepentant sin at best will cause one to lose spiritual rewards. Katharin Schori minimizes the strong commands God makes to us to avoid sin and instead promotes it. How can anyone calling himself a child of God condone this blasphemy?
tastiergerm 1 year ago
Thanks for your welcoming message. It was 3/4 of the way through before you mentioned the "Gay" issue. Those who oppose GLBT Christians and non-Christians are like the "winners who write history" and become the dominant paradigm/ We do not need to soft pedal GLBT rights within these churches as 2nd class citizens but go straight on (no pun) to Christ with without the Church. Without it, there would be no Protestant Reformation, or Henry VIII leaving the Catholic Church.
rickbangkok 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this church is the modern day whore of babylon, just look at it's spokescreature
50heaven 2 years ago
Gotta wonder...do they live by the 10 commandments...if something is a sin and a church allows it in their daily life...gotta wonder!!
cajunteacher2 2 years ago
This is the reason why I joined the Episcopal Church. It is a very up to date church in term of opening its doors for everyone. This having a room for all is what the heart of Christ really is, and the Episcopal Church is such a great of witness of that today! Thanks a lot Bishop Catharine!
Change012409 2 years ago 10
Such a remarkable, articulate, compassionate, and spiritually lead, bishop! Making manifest the examples of love offered for us to emulate by God, through our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. Bravo! (Archbishop/Presiding Bishop) Schori. Amen.
kentingtonallen 2 years ago 11
I don't really know where to come down on this. On the one hand, the blessing of same sex marriages and ordination of gay priests is troublesome. No, we shouldn't scream at the homosexual community and tell them to repent or go to hell. I have no problem with them being baptized or receiving communion. After all, we are all sinners who require Christ's grace to be saved. Yet, blessing same sex marriages and ordaining actively gay priests IS something else all together.
Lupos1987 2 years ago
Then again, wasn't Christ never the god of the perfect but the god of the imperfect. The god of the sick, the lame, the criminal, the outcast of society.
Still, one can also compare the homosexual not to the sick and lame but to the criminal who must repent first in order to seek salvation and eternal life.
It's a complex issue, and it is tearing the Episcopal church apart. I really hope we don't disappear; I'll have to go to the Roman Catholic church, where I'll have to be baptized again.
Lupos1987 2 years ago
OMG. This woman gives new meaning to the word APOSTATE.
sundrop1974 2 years ago
Your making the wrong choices! Diversity? How can a house of two masters stand? Bravo to those who are stripped of the Episcopal Name from YOUR administration! You foul woman! You'll lead your people into hell.
brad349miller 2 years ago
I would not want to be her, due to her false teaching, on judgment day! Yikes! Especially leading little ones astray........woe to her! And all under the guise of Christianity! What a joke and exceedingly sad.
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
A very reasoned and compassionate appeal. I am not an Episcopalian (at least not yet), but it is exactly the striving for unity, for service, for understanding, and for acceptance that Bishop Schori exhibits here that makes the Episcopalian community seem inviting and appealing. It is a courageous community that aims to embrace members diverse in their spirituality, their politics, and the affairs of their personal lives.
Tigerpaws9097826 2 years ago 2
Tigerpaws9097826:" embrace members diverse in their spirituality"
1) The episcopalian Church has compromised with the world and is not following or teaching God's word. Homosexuality is a sin in the eye's of God,especially within the Church. This Church embarrasses sinful behavior accepting it instead of leading the sinner to repentance.
2) The Bible also teaches that a women can not hold the position of the Pastor (overseer) in the Church.
guardafango1 2 years ago
The Bible actually contains quite a few laws that both Christian and non-Christian society have come to cast aside over time. For instance, we do not impose the death penalty on drunkards or males who disobey their parents, we do not practice slavery, we do not stone our "stubborn and rebellious sons" - all of which are proscribed in Deuteronomy. When justice and compassion collide with written laws, it is IMHO worth the risk to allow justice and compassion to rule the day.
Tigerpaws9097826 2 years ago
Tigerpaws9097826:"do not impose the death penalty....practice slavery"
Christians are under a new covenant through Jesus Christ, we are not under the Old Testament rules and regulations. We are not under the law, but under Grace. Christ has lived a perfect sinless life and died for our sins on the cross. It is His righteousness that is imputed on to us and we are justified before God through Him. The moral law, written on our hearts still stands. God does not change His mind, humans do.
guardafango1 2 years ago
Then - it seems that not being under OT rules would apply as much to rules addressing sexual practice as much as to those pointed at drunkenness, slavery, or disobedience. I'm not advocating a libertine lifestyle in regards to any of these, but just following your train of thought to what seems its logical conclusion. The only New Testament reference to homosexuality I'm aware of is Romans 1:26-27, admonishing heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts that are against their nature.
Tigerpaws9097826 2 years ago
Christians are not under the ceremonial and dietary laws, the moral and ethical law is reaffirmed in the NT.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1Cr 1 :9,10
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified...1Cr 6:11
guardafango1 2 years ago
I think you mean 1 Cor 6:9-10, and the word your 1979 NKJV Bible translates as homosexual is the Greek word "malakoi" which literally means "soft-ones." The 15th century KJV translates this word as "effeminate." Before that, the 5th century Vulgate translates it as "molles," meaning soft or effeminate. In The Republic, Book III, written about 360 BC, Plato said that too much music makes a man "malakoteroi." I doubt Plato was saying music makes a man gay and I doubt Paul had that in mind either.
ActorMethane 2 years ago
So you did a word study on "malakoi" which has a hotly debated meaning? Thats not the only reference my GNT makes to homosexuality as a sin. You can throw around the historical critical method all you want to, but you cant disregard all of the references in totality! BTW, my BHS and the LXX have something to say on the issue as well. As for a former comment you made, my church is very conservative and apposed slavery, but the Bible is less than clear on the subject. Read Romans 13.
pilot4321 2 years ago
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Jam 4:4
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands,you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Jam4:7;8
guardafango1 2 years ago
You give me hope, thank you! Can you do me a favor and read an e-mail that I am going to send you? I am not sure how you'd react, but I want to know what you think.
brad349miller 2 years ago
Most reverend Bishop Shori? Did Jesus call Himself most reverend? He who exalts himself shall be brought down, Jesus taught us to be humble . According to the Bible and according to Paul a women is not permitted to be the head of a Church. Episcopalians have departed from the faith and do not follow what the Bible teaches and are apostates just as the Bible speaks of. This women is a blasphemer and a deceiver that leads people astray.
guardafango1 2 years ago
Was there homosexuality 2,000 years ago?? just curious
jupitermadcat 2 years ago
The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun.
GinKirk7256 2 years ago
In the past, the latitude in Anglicanism was always over doctrine and liturgy, not about morality.
Magnulus76 2 years ago
So true! And sad...
josanj222 2 years ago
Bishop Katharine rules!!
QueenOfShemakh 3 years ago 2
and Satan rules her
GohModley 2 years ago
there is a word for these ideas... apostacy
kdurston1 3 years ago
Woooooooo boy! You better be a devout Roman Catholic. Otherwise you'd be the pot calling the kettle black. Better not be a Protestant fundamentalist, else you might want to turn that pointed finger the other way.
Lupos1987 2 years ago
you got it. The One True Unchanging Faith.
kdurston1 2 years ago
No, I won't flee from the house of God! Never! I'm going there tonight for Tuesday Night Folk Mass & a pancake dinner afterward! Yum! God has blessed me, & if I were to ignore those blessings & pass them off as "blinding" then THAT would be the true sin. I thank God for my family, my friends, my dog, my cat, my birds, my education at Auburn, the food on my plate, the opportunity to help other ppl., & everything else that's wonderful in my life! The Lord is so good to me! I'll praise Him forever.
aushorecm 3 years ago 2
You take the Bible too literally. Exodus 35:3 says "You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day." So what if someone comes home from church on a cold February day and decides to light the fireplace? Is that an abomination? Num. 5:12-31, tells us that if we suspect our wife has committed adultery, she is to be tested by making her drink water mixed with dirt. If she gets sick, she is guilty. Do you recommend that we implement this test procedure?
aushorecm 3 years ago
I'm just curious... are you saying that because we do not obey OT ceremonial and civil laws, we can ignore the moral ones as well? Are you saying that because we can eat shrimp, it's therefore ok to murder?
And what about the issue that it is was not our decision to keep moral laws and not ceremonial laws, but Jesus and the Apostles themselves who made this decision? (Mt 15:17-19, Acts 15). Are you accusing *them* of picking and choosing?
CAndiron 3 years ago
I'm confused. Is slavery a ceremonial issue or a moral one? Hmm? Most of the laws had to do with either symbolism or hygiene. Shatnez symbolized Cane/linen and Able/wool. Homosexuality and adultery were ways to spread VD. Odd that they put cursing your parents in the same verse and all 3 were punishable by death. Would you kill your son if he cursed you? Probably not. Jesus on the other hand had only 2 laws: 1-Love God. 2-Love your neighbor. That is what TRR Schori says we should concentrate on.
ActorMethane 2 years ago
It's a moral one. Mmmm. (1 Ti 1:10).
Re: kill disobedient kids. Do you think it's good for a child to be a spoiled brat? Probably not. You are confusing a moral principle with punishments enacted by a particular civil government.
Do you think 'Love' is letting people do whatever their desire leads them to do? Read Lev 19:17-18.
I hope this clears up your confusion. I'd love to discuss this with you if you are serious about learning these distinctions instead of repeating liberal boilerplate.
CAndiron 2 years ago
Wow! I've never been called a liberal before. Many things to respond to here; I can only concentrate on one. Obviously, CAndiron does not understand sarcasm. My point is that slavery was moral and legal in biblical times, and in the US up to 140 years ago, when honest, upright, moral men, on both sides of the issue, fought and died over it. The crises facing the Episcopal Church today are not that dramatic, but again there are honest, upright, moral people, on both sides who simply do not agree.
ActorMethane 2 years ago
I do not consider R.L.Dabney and his ilk to be 'honest', 'upright' and 'moral'. The NT clearly frowns upon slavery (Philem in addition to 1Ti 1:10) and not one calling himself a Christian had any business owning slaves or participating in the slave trade (even ignoring the fact that OT slavery is not analogous to southern slavery). Even if Dabney et al had clean consciences, they should still be corrected (as Paul had to correct Peter) since they are *wrong*, as I hope you would agree.
CAndiron 2 years ago
Dabney, Thornwell, etc. are long dead. It doesn't matter what they thought. Different circumstances, different reality. Looking back, we can say they were wrong on one issue. But in their day, they were the leaders of hard nosed conservative Christians who thought they were right on every issue. Shows how wrong you can be when you keep your mind shut. Which brings me back to my original point that at least one thing, lawful/moral, in Biblical times, is not lawful/moral today. Change can be good.
ActorMethane 2 years ago
We're talking past each other - let me just observe that if you are involved in a besetting sin, you need to repent. Don't kid yourself that you aren't 'liberal'. It only takes one crime to make you a criminal, the other thousands of laws you kept count for nothing. Stop telling yourself that you must be enslaved to sin, that it is part of your identity. All people need to learn to overcome the fleshly impulses. This is not even remotely the same thing as race.
CAndiron 2 years ago
What are you talking about?
ActorMethane 2 years ago
Actually I denounce satan, as I profess every time we have a baptism. Yes, I am Episcopalian. If you want to know our beliefs, be open-minded enough to check out the Nicene Creed. I choose to believe in God's grace and love, which you apparently don't understand very well. PSALM 30:5... If i'm such a sinner and God hates me and damns me, how can you explain all the blessings in my life? A loving family, wonderful friends, my dog and my cat, food on my plate, opportunities to help other people..
aushorecm 3 years ago 2
Amen, aushorecm. Well said.
flagordon 3 years ago
LOLOLOLOLOLLLLLL!!! What are these videos of mine you've seen? I don't have any videos like that. Most of the videos I comment on on here are about Auburn football lol. How am I a "tree hugging satan worshiper"? That's complete nonsense. You and I both sin; it's a fact of life. However, I recognize that I'm not perfect, while you claim to be perfect. I turn to God regarding my imperfections and He and I work it out. Being saved is not a destination; it's a continual process.
aushorecm 3 years ago
You don't know what I support. You put words in my mouth. You sicken ME. The Bible also says not to mix fabrics, and that if children disobey their parents they should be stoned to death. It also says not to eat shellfish. Do you have any cotton/polyester blends? I live the best life I can and give thanks to God for all the good things I have in my life. I think this makes God happy. I'm not perfect, and neither are you.
aushorecm 3 years ago
Judge not lest ye be judged. You have no right to say we are not a body of Christ. You need to look deep at what Jesus Himself stood for. God bless.
aushorecm 3 years ago
Love the Episcopal Church!
jupitermadcat 3 years ago
I am so proud of my church! Come and visit Christ Church, Episcopal in Savannah.
florgano 3 years ago 2
Thank you for all of your work and your faithfulness Bishop Katharine--we are blessed to have you with us in TEC.
pumo101 3 years ago