You do reallize that there are economics and statistics tools that can help you get away from this problem? Like the Purchasing Power Parity (PPP), the Real GDP (which accounts for inflation), as well as accounting for the exchange rates. Why don't you browse wikipedia for a while, you might get enlightened to the fact that statisticians and economists aren't actually as retarded as you thought.
Log scale for income makes sense, since economic growth is exponential. It takes roughly the same time to go from $500 per person to $5000 (Mozambique to China) as it does for $5000 to $50000 (China to Norway). This of course assumes growth rates stay the same. They do tend to slow down as the absolute level of income increases, but as a rough approximation it still stands.
@spamdude1 Percentile increase suggests that absolute growth speeds up exponentially, so it's not as far off as it seems. Rich countries get richer quicker.
Even though Hans Rosling is very honest about this growth and education will make everything better he does not understand that we live in a finite world and these ideas are detrimental in the long run.
A modest population can live in harmony with nature almost for ever while as a growth oriented population, as we see now, will wreck it in a very short time.
Giving a proper accounting of human development progress over the past 50 years does not preclude one from understanding the problem of sustainability.
You are probably right, maybe he knows more then he's telling us; but anyone that watches this video could be lured into believing that growth and education is the cure-all Panacea.
@ noobler9 In a linear graph which is normally used, one unit represents a fixed quantity. ie., one centimeter represents one dollar (say).It increases by one dollar for every centimeter.But in a logarithmic graph, one centimeter represents a ten fold increase.If one unit is one dollar the next will be 10, the next will be 100 and the next will be 1000 and so on.Note the values on the x axis while he compares the incomes.in linear graph the x axis will be 1,2,3,4,5 in log graph 1, 10, 100, 1000
@krishnatheid Among mathematically sophisticated researchers, log scales are quite widely and correctly used. The slope has well defined and useful properties and the graph can be more meaningfully viewed for some scatter diagrams. So it is in fact the lack of mathematics that leads to your objections. The one good point you may be trying to make is that log scales make the distribution seem less severe.
@krishnatheid Debunk what? So what if he uses logaritmic scales, it is not as if he is trying to hide it and draw bogus conclutions. He even showed you the huge income difference in one of his diagrams. Watch at 7min.
@SinnFein4ever The Ganges River contains natural bacteriophages, which are viruses that attack and kill bacteria. Phage therapy, pursued widely until the discovery of Penicillin is still an under-explored avenue of antiobacterial biology research, except in Russia.
@SinnFein4ever It's true that many third world myths are ridiculous. But instead of using them to disparage the people who live there, I think you should take a careful look at your own understanding of the world. Even today, unless you have studied medicine, you likely don't know exactly how Tylenol cures a headache. Unless you’re a physicist, you can’t explain in detail what causes whirlpools.
@SinnFein4ever You only know better than people in third world countries because a few intelligent European scientists figured out the reasons. As for #6, I could go on a long rant listing every questionable verse of the Bible, but I will refrain from doing so. It's important to share scientific western knowledge with third world countries, but it's also important to not have a superiority complex while doing so.
He has some pretty pictures but he's only working with a very select set of indicators. He talks about income but doesn't talk about how much of that goes to servicing odious debt, nor whether improving income/health stats within various nations rely on a privileged class who skew the data - no reason he couldn't have visualised medians, modes etc.
But that might mess with the TED narrative! Thrill baby, thrill!
Want to know something funny. A week ago I said something to the effect of us being able to engineer systems that could pull CO2 out of the air, organically, in an energy producign fashion (like trees do now). When I said that I thought maybe in 10 years, but at the end of this Crag Venter talk it looks like this is exactly what they are on the verge of doing. v=QHIocNOHd7A
Manipulating or not, their statistics remain the same. I don't really like the idea of "choosing" who's got the bigger chance of survival etc. Although I believe it will be neccessary in the future seeing how the worlds current population growth rate isn't looking all too bright. Everybody that have studied economics, statistics etc know that it's impossible to not hit the top some day and begin dipping. Wealth isn't born out of nothingness. Then again, it's hard to see how far away the top is.
@danielwolfberg Did you look at the data trends? Increasing population is creating a lower death rate, lower infant mortality and longer life spans. You are saying current population growth isn't to bright, but his data trends otherwise. More people = better world.
@neoaeonian And history has shown multiple times that nothing can expand infinitely. We have limited rescources on this planet. Yes, his data shows that we have it better now than we used to, but if you'd run some data on how much more rescources we consume now than we did back then you'd get the picture. Increasing population isn't the cause of lower death rate, infant mortality or our live spans. It's science. If you insist to narrow it down into this single presentation then you're naive.
@danielwolfberg I first read this Club of Rome pessimism in 1972 (when we only had 10 years left). At it's core was 2 ideas, the 1st that people are, in general, a negative influence on the environment, that people don't learn, can't change and can't adapt. The 2nd was that we were near the end of the science ride, there is nothing else useful to learn. They gave it 10 years in 1972. How long do you give it today, in 2010? When will those lifespan trends reverse themselves?
@neoaeonian My belief is that once it's no longer economically viable. That's when we'll "stop" aging. Other than that I can't really tell you how much you can stretch or regenerate a cell's lifespan. I'm not a scientist ;-) The science ride will go on as long as there's means to further develop it.
@danielwolfberg Can you see my point that we can't continue developing into infinity without means? That every action causes a reaction? I'm not neglecting your belief that we'll continue to age, provided we have the means to do so. Although I don't agree with your statement that more people = better world. Seeing how we have limited rescources.
@danielwolfberg But our resources aren't limited. Sure we are limited in oil, but when solar cells produce energy more cheaply than oil (and they will within a decade) and when batteries carry more energy than gasoline (within 2, maybe 1 decades) where will the limit be then? Trees are built out of air and sunlight. When we match, then exceed that ability, we'll be fine. I think it takes less land to support people all the time, as we gain efficiency.
@neoaeonian The title of this video is "Debunking 3rd world myths" but it could have just as easily been titled, "Debunking population myths" as all the good things happening in the third world, those things couldn't be happening if the population myth were true. I actually don't think we'll continue to age.I do think we'll get more efficient in every way all the time. News sells on pessimism, so all we here is pessimism. But the trends, long term trends, are that people and progress is good.
@neoaeonian Well, in the current and near future (2-3 decades) we won't have any viable energy scource that can cope to take over the heavy dependency that we have on oil. And as we have higher and higher population it becomes harder and harder to actually find areas that are suitable for example water based energy. You're right on the fact that we have a lot of rescources. But they'll be scarce if we're intend to blindly keep increasing habitants. Nuclear power is the only viable choice
@danielwolfberg Yes, I can and do acknowledge that more people doesn't necessarily = a better world. Much depends on the political and cultural nature of the additional people, But I hope you can acknowledge that the existing data (in the form of increasing life span and reduced infant moratality) seems to indicate that it usually does. And this is something that people are closing their eyes too, usually due to either an anti-progress, anti-wealth or a pro-control bias.
@neoaeonian Don't get me wrong, I do see danger at hand. But the danger that is at hand is that people are moving into an anti-technology mindset, which thankfully you don't seem guilty of, that is causing people to shy away from the best short and mid term answers (in which nuclear plays a big part). What I do know is that 2 approaches are going to fail. Telling people that they cannot have the good life is a failure approach.
Telling people they can't have children also fails. But make people wealthy and they'll have less children naturally. And fix energy technology so that it is both ecologically and economically sound, and population ceases to be an issue. The technology is not that far away, especially if people stop acting out of blind fear, and start analyzing each item on a return on investment and risk/reward basis.
@neoaeonian in your kind of scenario. It's simply not possible to minimize the lost from generators or capacitators beyond it's thermal efficiency. And there's only so much power to be gained from mechanical energy. Therefore the other possible scources would be nuclear-power (the best choice as of now), chemical energy (this falls under different categories depending on the exact chemical reaction so this is semi-viable) and electromagnetic energy (I'm afraid I don't know enough about it).
@neoaeonian So if we go back to the possible energy-scources I'd have to say that in order to sustain an ever increasing population we'd need to further develop nuclear power so that we can learn to harness it without any possible threats. It's pretty much foolproof nowadays aswell but there'll always be that tiny risk that something somewhere in a powerplant breaks down or malfunctions. I'd love to see your scources on the following statements:
@neoaeonian "but when solar cells produce energy more cheaply than oil (and they will within a decade)"
"and when batteries carry more energy than gasoline (within 2, maybe 1 decades)"
And you do realize that planting a forest isn't something done over night? And the increased exposion to bacterias and viruses that follows an ever increasing population? Besides, photosynthesis doesn't mean that the plants consume every little bit of carbon dioxide. It simply takes what it needs.
@neoaeonian So basically we'd have to find an efficient way to make use of this increasing carbon dioxide or increase the amount of plants in the near vincinity of people. Meaning that there'll every person would practically take up more space.
Can you acknowledge that it's not as simple as to state that more people = better world? We haven't even begun taking up the cultural part. Your reasoning pretty much requires a hive-mind.
@neoaeonian it was an interesting presentation, although after he left the statistics and went into a metaphorical planning for the future I was a bit diappointed. But yes, we are decreasing the usage of oil. I'm failing to see your point with this video. Only thing I gathered from it was the fact that there'll always be a peak for everything. Including the rate of increasing population compared to child mortality.
I thought yours was more people = more CO2, and less resources, both of which that video helps dispel..
His analogy could have been better, but the ideas are valid. We have all the atoms we need, because atoms are the ultimate recyclable. We have all the energy we need because the sun's beaming it our way. Current trends are already leading to a zero CO2 energy.
The presentation went well untill Cuba showed up in the data about child mortality and spoiled all the argument about how globalisation "free trade" and capitalism can improve the lives of the poor.
besides. a drop of child mortality does not tell us much if the kids die from poverty related diseases at 5, 8, 14, or even 17 or 20. It just means that the statistics tell us people are still poor but perhaps some NGO aid is making a difference for a relatively short while. a nation where 30-90% die from poverty or any percentage for that matter, without bieng able to lead normal lives, then nothing has become better since "before the white man came". At least then they were FREE.
did he consider price increase and the drop of value for the dollar? is it somehow not obvious that most people live on insufficient funds? how is 1 to ten dollars somehow good? they have lost all their resources and perform slave labour in sweatshops. I question his statistics seriously..
First of all I don't believe that he is the economist that considers not only the statistics he is able to interpret (which includes currency dispartiy for your perspective), the onus should not be on a doctor in medicine with ability of analyzing statistics to compile an all-around study on this issue.
Second, I don't think that at any time he advocated that from $1 to $10 is a GREAT thing. Instead what he suggested is that aid should be more specific and contextual for countries
Knowledge is power. Data is clearly powdered knowledge and this software is like adding water. The power to live better lives just seems to grow out of the soil.
I think the most important thing to do is give Africans equal opportunity to export their products. Removing trade barriers will do more good than developmentaid.
I wouldn't be so sure my friend, what happened in countries like chile, the one catching cuba was recievin billions of dollars in U.S. aid a country such as Russia who recieved no such aid sent around 20 million in to poverty, this guy is amasing tho, i got that statistic from Naomi Klienes' shock doctrine
whats intrestin is all da comments posted without any proof...regebro is a good example.. u talk as tho others are wrong & yor point of view is the only truth...none of u r on so r u able to comment ? yes of course ut there just ideas so dont knock others as tho yor know it all..."I guess you should take a look again, With glasses this time".u no wot i mean regbro :)
Point of views are never the truth, least of all the only truth. So neither my or your point of view is truth. They are point of views. But that doesn't mean that nothing is true. There is a truth, but you must differentiate between statements of facts and statements of opinions.
What is it you feel that I should provide proof for?
Not completely true. It depends on where there answer came from. If the person is looking for truth, then it is true. Because they are in search for the truth. So if that's where both answers came from then they are both telling the truth. Even if it's two opposite answers. It is still truth because they are seeking the truth.
No. Truth is not based on trying or good intentions, but on what is actually the correct truth. You will not automatically find the truth just because you search for it.
yes this I know. It takes a long time. Sometimes I doubt what I find to be true because I keep searching and find something else out that changes what I found. But if you are searching for truth you will know truth when it finally reaches you. If your truly looking for truth then why wouldn't you recognize it when the time comes? Right?
well that really sucks. That explains why I'm always searching and never finding the correct truth. If there would be a truth then perhaps the only truth would be in the eye of the beholder. Only through faith can one individual alone know the truth. But the truth maybe different for everybody. Sounds like a possibility, but like you can only search for the truth. Whether I find that to even be true, I will always be searching for that truth. Are you the professor in this video?
You can never find the truth by yourself. That's not the truth, that's a guess. And faith is not truth, it's desperately klinging on to your guess even though you have no proof.
But there *is* a way of getting closer and closer to the truth. And it's called science.
I'm so glad TED Talks is on the internet to educate and inspire us. After all the bias and punditry we are subjected to on a daily basis, it's wonderful to hear something fascinating and backed up by sound research and solid facts.
Though it is still a reality in some areas. But sure, the advertisers are taking advantage on our preconceived idea about Africa. They don't want our picture to change... That's just sad.
A difference is not a gap. If it was a GAP there would be one blob to the left and one to the right and few in the middle. As it was 30 years ago. That was a GAP. Now it's a SPREAD. Big difference.
1) There can not be a 'globalised' solution to a Region ie. Africa. The disparity between countries and within countries themselves demands a specific solution to each specific circumstance.
2) That health is more important than wealth in determining a country's progression.
not determination. correlation =/= causation XD they just tend to move together due to eg. changes in policies, leaders etc. plus it's an upward spiral, for most cases. Wealth with no access or poor healthcare plan is useless. Health with no foreign investment or proper education is useless too.
IMO it's not all that important (look at the relatively low gradient when some countries are split into different income groups. suggests that without policies, cash is useless. And there is Arabs)
Wealth is a prerequisite for health care, so it does matter. And what do you talk about causation? He doens't even start to discuss why, he just points out that it *is*. The world has changed. It doesn't look like the Tintin world people tend to imagine that we have. That's his point, and it's very important.
Prerequisite, but imo I wouldn't emphasize it like you do. There's a lot of cheap ways to promote health that can be implemented in daily life that certain groups of people fail to discover. And I'm just talking about your statement mentioning wealth being vital, not his statement. lol. Me thinks wealth is nothin much. At least in the lower levels like preventing malaria, AIDs...
No, it doesn't include that data. However, I have looked at those things. Unfortunately I can't link to the graphs from here..
Since "resist Western corporatism and neo-colonialism" is an euphemism for socialism, you can simply take a look at how socialist the economy of a country is and compare that to other stats. And it turns out that socialist countries have more poverty, more inequality, lower human development and more pollution. Yes, I was surprised too...
Problem is, this just shows data, you need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. And these things take lots of time, so the politicians will need to invest a lot of his year, and the next guy in chair for this gamble.
I love this video! I teach decision support and data analysis in my class and the data analysis and visualization techniques used in this video are amazing. Thank you Hans and TED!
Man, there've been many governments passing in my country and they did not do a shit. And with this tool I can fix all the problems myself. Imagine we bring the international trading agreements and then we can plan the best future for the world. With this tecnique we can solve all the problems, except probably the politicans' moral value system ;)
what, exactly, is the problem with using a logarithmic graph for per capita income?
MrPEDOCTOR 2 months ago
11:09 singapore!!
xhellmagic 3 months ago
yay freedom of information!
infernus024 3 months ago
what kind of software do you use to create such an awesome graphs! can any one tell me？
realstatman 3 months ago
@The15thDalaiLama
You do reallize that there are economics and statistics tools that can help you get away from this problem? Like the Purchasing Power Parity (PPP), the Real GDP (which accounts for inflation), as well as accounting for the exchange rates. Why don't you browse wikipedia for a while, you might get enlightened to the fact that statisticians and economists aren't actually as retarded as you thought.
SanityAardvark 4 months ago
Best stats presentation I have ever seen.
bogusnachos 5 months ago
hehe, swenglish <3
gronkel 6 months ago
11:19 Slovenia REPRESENT :P
MarkArandjus 6 months ago
I'd hire this guy to make powerpoints for my stat class :)
Gytu 6 months ago
I am only half way through this video, this guy is awesome!
WDTripps 7 months ago
like the way he says sheempanzies lol
WDTripps 7 months ago
Very interesting. World statistics should be free for anyone to access them without those "stupid passwords"!
LordMgls 7 months ago
So is this data available in any form?
lockynboycannen 7 months ago
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SIMPLY AMAZING!!!
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goyavesETmangues 7 months ago
(The Swedish doctors) who hand out the Nobel Prize for medicine are on par with the chimpanzees > WAHAHAHAHA!
NicoleTirona 8 months ago
The Swedish doctors who hand out the Nobel Prize for medicine - they're on the same level as the chimpanzees > WAHAHAHAHA!
NicoleTirona 8 months ago
great talk
flowewritharoma 9 months ago
Log scale for income makes sense, since economic growth is exponential. It takes roughly the same time to go from $500 per person to $5000 (Mozambique to China) as it does for $5000 to $50000 (China to Norway). This of course assumes growth rates stay the same. They do tend to slow down as the absolute level of income increases, but as a rough approximation it still stands.
iCommentatez 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Liberal douchebag...
Sinekyre14 11 months ago
ITT armchair "professors" who think they know more than a true academic.
Flagrunner 1 year ago 10
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Same data used by the Globel warming. The man is full of shit.
Bristow42 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
sexykatie90 HAPPY NEW YEARS
sexykatie90 1 year ago
The logarithmic scale is misleading -- countries that are still poor end up looking like middle income countries
spamdude1 1 year ago 3
@spamdude1 Percentile increase suggests that absolute growth speeds up exponentially, so it's not as far off as it seems. Rich countries get richer quicker.
As a snapshot of course, it's deceptive.
TacticusPrime 11 months ago
Too cool!
velocity246 1 year ago
There's more stuff that could be done with data.
t8zhao 1 year ago
can u imagine the power of sharing data ..
oaltom 1 year ago
The poor get poorer, the rich get richer, and 100000 starve to death each day.
trakkaton 1 year ago
Well I'm convinced. Good thing I watched this video, now I'll never waste money donating to one of those "developing countries" again.
TheOctopus3 1 year ago
Even though Hans Rosling is very honest about this growth and education will make everything better he does not understand that we live in a finite world and these ideas are detrimental in the long run.
A modest population can live in harmony with nature almost for ever while as a growth oriented population, as we see now, will wreck it in a very short time.
SLORRIFJART321 1 year ago
@SLORRIFJART321 how do you know that he doesn't understand that? all he did here was present progress in human development indicators
simoncaca 1 year ago
@simoncaca
Yes, that's a fair question.
It's an assumption one can make from what he is saying, a miracle he says, and he does not mention anything about the negative sides of it.
SLORRIFJART321 1 year ago
@SLORRIFJART321 No, it's not an assumption you can make.
Giving a proper accounting of human development progress over the past 50 years does not preclude one from understanding the problem of sustainability.
simoncaca 1 year ago
@simoncaca
You are probably right, maybe he knows more then he's telling us; but anyone that watches this video could be lured into believing that growth and education is the cure-all Panacea.
SLORRIFJART321 1 year ago
@SLORRIFJART321
Thats why need everyone to get into high income so population growth nearly seize.
At the same time cutting down on the enormous unequality in co2 emissions.
userstupidname 1 year ago
Science and evangelism never goes together..
krishnatheid 1 year ago
This shows conesequently that solemnly local solutions is the only answer..
zurapDOR 1 year ago
lies, damn lies and statistics!!!!!!
chocaliciouz 1 year ago
Comment removed
krishnatheid 1 year ago
@aeiou99999 That's the only point i am trying to make.
Log scales make the distribution seem less severe.
krishnatheid 1 year ago
Comment removed
krishnatheid 1 year ago
@ noobler9 In a linear graph which is normally used, one unit represents a fixed quantity. ie., one centimeter represents one dollar (say).It increases by one dollar for every centimeter.But in a logarithmic graph, one centimeter represents a ten fold increase.If one unit is one dollar the next will be 10, the next will be 100 and the next will be 1000 and so on.Note the values on the x axis while he compares the incomes.in linear graph the x axis will be 1,2,3,4,5 in log graph 1, 10, 100, 1000
krishnatheid 1 year ago
3,42 % of people watching this video are idiots.
DMHR100 1 year ago 3
what, exactly, is the problem with using a logarithmic graph for per capita income?
noobler9 1 year ago
Anyone with a basic knowledge in maths can debunk this video.
He is using logarithmic graph for per capita income.
You TED people ought to know better. Shame on you guys.
You can make statistics look like anything you want it to look like.
krishnatheid 1 year ago
@krishnatheid Among mathematically sophisticated researchers, log scales are quite widely and correctly used. The slope has well defined and useful properties and the graph can be more meaningfully viewed for some scatter diagrams. So it is in fact the lack of mathematics that leads to your objections. The one good point you may be trying to make is that log scales make the distribution seem less severe.
aeiou99999 1 year ago
@krishnatheid Debunk what? So what if he uses logaritmic scales, it is not as if he is trying to hide it and draw bogus conclutions. He even showed you the huge income difference in one of his diagrams. Watch at 7min.
Hedning1390 1 year ago
Some of the most popular myths/superstitions in the Third-World.
1: Taking powdered rino horn cures Erectile-Dysfunction.
2: Only "whores" get AIDS.
3: Having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS.
4: A solar eclipse means that God is angry.
5: The Ganges river has magical healing powers.
6: Muhammad flew on a winged-horse.
7: Menstruating females are "unclean"; and should not be so much as tapped on the shoulder.
SinnFein4ever 1 year ago
@SinnFein4ever The Ganges River contains natural bacteriophages, which are viruses that attack and kill bacteria. Phage therapy, pursued widely until the discovery of Penicillin is still an under-explored avenue of antiobacterial biology research, except in Russia.
cdshawSFU 1 year ago
@cdshawSFU Except, now the Ganges in a huge sewer, full of shit and E. coli. Nasty!
FantasmaBAnco 1 year ago
@SinnFein4ever It's true that many third world myths are ridiculous. But instead of using them to disparage the people who live there, I think you should take a careful look at your own understanding of the world. Even today, unless you have studied medicine, you likely don't know exactly how Tylenol cures a headache. Unless you’re a physicist, you can’t explain in detail what causes whirlpools.
ohgoodjoy 10 months ago
@SinnFein4ever You only know better than people in third world countries because a few intelligent European scientists figured out the reasons. As for #6, I could go on a long rant listing every questionable verse of the Bible, but I will refrain from doing so. It's important to share scientific western knowledge with third world countries, but it's also important to not have a superiority complex while doing so.
ohgoodjoy 10 months ago
@SinnFein4ever Don't forget (God) is real.......<
EveningGoDs 9 months ago
@EveningGoDs
I didn't have room for #8.
;)
SinnFein4ever 9 months ago
Excellent!
swekangaroo 1 year ago
what program is he using?
gaohan00 1 year ago
@gaohan00 gapminder . org
ickmund 1 year ago
turn on the closed captioning, you will laugh your ass off :D
MrHal90000 1 year ago 3
He has some pretty pictures but he's only working with a very select set of indicators. He talks about income but doesn't talk about how much of that goes to servicing odious debt, nor whether improving income/health stats within various nations rely on a privileged class who skew the data - no reason he couldn't have visualised medians, modes etc.
But that might mess with the TED narrative! Thrill baby, thrill!
paracelsus18 1 year ago 2
This kind of data needs to be implemented in things like Wolfram Alpha
RazielKain 1 year ago 11
i had to look at this for a course..got to say i m very impressed..hes very amazing!
xup0512 1 year ago
what do you think of this solution about third world changes
javinaenkyra 1 year ago
Want to know something funny. A week ago I said something to the effect of us being able to engineer systems that could pull CO2 out of the air, organically, in an energy producign fashion (like trees do now). When I said that I thought maybe in 10 years, but at the end of this Crag Venter talk it looks like this is exactly what they are on the verge of doing. v=QHIocNOHd7A
neoaeonian 1 year ago
Seriously good. And every person who says that only secondary sciences are real sciences, just watch this video!!
eksiarvamus 1 year ago
The best display of statistics i've ever seen!
Kaip911 1 year ago
Manipulating or not, their statistics remain the same. I don't really like the idea of "choosing" who's got the bigger chance of survival etc. Although I believe it will be neccessary in the future seeing how the worlds current population growth rate isn't looking all too bright. Everybody that have studied economics, statistics etc know that it's impossible to not hit the top some day and begin dipping. Wealth isn't born out of nothingness. Then again, it's hard to see how far away the top is.
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@danielwolfberg Did you look at the data trends? Increasing population is creating a lower death rate, lower infant mortality and longer life spans. You are saying current population growth isn't to bright, but his data trends otherwise. More people = better world.
neoaeonian 1 year ago
@neoaeonian And history has shown multiple times that nothing can expand infinitely. We have limited rescources on this planet. Yes, his data shows that we have it better now than we used to, but if you'd run some data on how much more rescources we consume now than we did back then you'd get the picture. Increasing population isn't the cause of lower death rate, infant mortality or our live spans. It's science. If you insist to narrow it down into this single presentation then you're naive.
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@danielwolfberg I first read this Club of Rome pessimism in 1972 (when we only had 10 years left). At it's core was 2 ideas, the 1st that people are, in general, a negative influence on the environment, that people don't learn, can't change and can't adapt. The 2nd was that we were near the end of the science ride, there is nothing else useful to learn. They gave it 10 years in 1972. How long do you give it today, in 2010? When will those lifespan trends reverse themselves?
neoaeonian 1 year ago
@neoaeonian My belief is that once it's no longer economically viable. That's when we'll "stop" aging. Other than that I can't really tell you how much you can stretch or regenerate a cell's lifespan. I'm not a scientist ;-) The science ride will go on as long as there's means to further develop it.
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@danielwolfberg Can you see my point that we can't continue developing into infinity without means? That every action causes a reaction? I'm not neglecting your belief that we'll continue to age, provided we have the means to do so. Although I don't agree with your statement that more people = better world. Seeing how we have limited rescources.
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@danielwolfberg But our resources aren't limited. Sure we are limited in oil, but when solar cells produce energy more cheaply than oil (and they will within a decade) and when batteries carry more energy than gasoline (within 2, maybe 1 decades) where will the limit be then? Trees are built out of air and sunlight. When we match, then exceed that ability, we'll be fine. I think it takes less land to support people all the time, as we gain efficiency.
neoaeonian 1 year ago
@neoaeonian The title of this video is "Debunking 3rd world myths" but it could have just as easily been titled, "Debunking population myths" as all the good things happening in the third world, those things couldn't be happening if the population myth were true. I actually don't think we'll continue to age.I do think we'll get more efficient in every way all the time. News sells on pessimism, so all we here is pessimism. But the trends, long term trends, are that people and progress is good.
neoaeonian 1 year ago
@neoaeonian Well, in the current and near future (2-3 decades) we won't have any viable energy scource that can cope to take over the heavy dependency that we have on oil. And as we have higher and higher population it becomes harder and harder to actually find areas that are suitable for example water based energy. You're right on the fact that we have a lot of rescources. But they'll be scarce if we're intend to blindly keep increasing habitants. Nuclear power is the only viable choice
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@danielwolfberg Yes, I can and do acknowledge that more people doesn't necessarily = a better world. Much depends on the political and cultural nature of the additional people, But I hope you can acknowledge that the existing data (in the form of increasing life span and reduced infant moratality) seems to indicate that it usually does. And this is something that people are closing their eyes too, usually due to either an anti-progress, anti-wealth or a pro-control bias.
neoaeonian 1 year ago
@neoaeonian Don't get me wrong, I do see danger at hand. But the danger that is at hand is that people are moving into an anti-technology mindset, which thankfully you don't seem guilty of, that is causing people to shy away from the best short and mid term answers (in which nuclear plays a big part). What I do know is that 2 approaches are going to fail. Telling people that they cannot have the good life is a failure approach.
neoaeonian 1 year ago
Telling people they can't have children also fails. But make people wealthy and they'll have less children naturally. And fix energy technology so that it is both ecologically and economically sound, and population ceases to be an issue. The technology is not that far away, especially if people stop acting out of blind fear, and start analyzing each item on a return on investment and risk/reward basis.
neoaeonian 1 year ago
@neoaeonian in your kind of scenario. It's simply not possible to minimize the lost from generators or capacitators beyond it's thermal efficiency. And there's only so much power to be gained from mechanical energy. Therefore the other possible scources would be nuclear-power (the best choice as of now), chemical energy (this falls under different categories depending on the exact chemical reaction so this is semi-viable) and electromagnetic energy (I'm afraid I don't know enough about it).
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@neoaeonian So if we go back to the possible energy-scources I'd have to say that in order to sustain an ever increasing population we'd need to further develop nuclear power so that we can learn to harness it without any possible threats. It's pretty much foolproof nowadays aswell but there'll always be that tiny risk that something somewhere in a powerplant breaks down or malfunctions. I'd love to see your scources on the following statements:
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@neoaeonian "but when solar cells produce energy more cheaply than oil (and they will within a decade)"
"and when batteries carry more energy than gasoline (within 2, maybe 1 decades)"
And you do realize that planting a forest isn't something done over night? And the increased exposion to bacterias and viruses that follows an ever increasing population? Besides, photosynthesis doesn't mean that the plants consume every little bit of carbon dioxide. It simply takes what it needs.
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@neoaeonian So basically we'd have to find an efficient way to make use of this increasing carbon dioxide or increase the amount of plants in the near vincinity of people. Meaning that there'll every person would practically take up more space.
Can you acknowledge that it's not as simple as to state that more people = better world? We haven't even begun taking up the cultural part. Your reasoning pretty much requires a hive-mind.
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@danielwolfberg Take a look at this video v=GGScU5ESei4 to see how we are de-carbonizing.our energy supply.
neoaeonian 1 year ago
@neoaeonian it was an interesting presentation, although after he left the statistics and went into a metaphorical planning for the future I was a bit diappointed. But yes, we are decreasing the usage of oil. I'm failing to see your point with this video. Only thing I gathered from it was the fact that there'll always be a peak for everything. Including the rate of increasing population compared to child mortality.
danielwolfberg 1 year ago
@danielwolfberg RE: failing to see your point.
I must be missing yours.
I thought yours was more people = more CO2, and less resources, both of which that video helps dispel..
His analogy could have been better, but the ideas are valid. We have all the atoms we need, because atoms are the ultimate recyclable. We have all the energy we need because the sun's beaming it our way. Current trends are already leading to a zero CO2 energy.
I must have missed your point. What did I miss?
neoaeonian 1 year ago
What an attention whore this Hans Rosling is. Also disgusting that they get unrelated sponsors like BMW.
OpticalFascism 1 year ago
I wish everyone in America was forced to watch this.
Mexican87 1 year ago
Statistics is fun again! Yay, gapminder!
darkmiles22 1 year ago
I love this guy so much
VantekHG 1 year ago
does anybody know what's the program he uses to illustrate all these things and present in such an attractive way?
GIQsa 1 year ago
@GIQsa The software developed for gapminder, the Trendalyzer I think it is (maybe spelt wrong)
qazplm1029384756 1 year ago
Gapminder is an amazing website!
snowborednow 1 year ago
The presentation went well untill Cuba showed up in the data about child mortality and spoiled all the argument about how globalisation "free trade" and capitalism can improve the lives of the poor.
123zoroab 2 years ago 2
Agreed
Michael0VCSU 2 years ago
vilken naiv idiot
handskarav 2 years ago
Je wieb, erg interssant ;)
lucasrem 2 years ago
Awesome presentation. Very impressive!
mobius1aic 2 years ago
sana may subtitle.. :)
ghraxa 2 years ago
Search for US DEBT FORMULA to know the truth about america
eliasmouawad 2 years ago
I'd love to see this guy do a similar analysis using religiosity instead of money.
artyfarty2 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Niger (pronounced "Needjaay")
Sammy107d 2 years ago
i wish i could do this
NaomiChambers 2 years ago 2
Making Statistics interesting.
RenewableFuel 2 years ago 53
amazing.
HolaFatima 2 years ago 6
He makes me excited about stats, well done sir and ty.
certainlysure 2 years ago 60
@certainlysure I know him personally, he's a great guy with a sense of humor
mixxmexx 6 months ago
besides. a drop of child mortality does not tell us much if the kids die from poverty related diseases at 5, 8, 14, or even 17 or 20. It just means that the statistics tell us people are still poor but perhaps some NGO aid is making a difference for a relatively short while. a nation where 30-90% die from poverty or any percentage for that matter, without bieng able to lead normal lives, then nothing has become better since "before the white man came". At least then they were FREE.
gunthaarz 2 years ago
So, the challenge has been presented to the internet - Make Statistics Sexy.
classicalheartburn 2 years ago 4
There´s a documentary about Hans on the homepage of the swedish television, and kindly they have put english subtitles on it.
Runebertill 2 years ago 3
Yeah, someone should upload it to youtube.
baryon15 2 years ago
Comment removed
Runebertill 2 years ago
actually South Africa, apart from AIDS, has a excellent healthcare system...
it's depressing Turkey has a high mortality rate...
Bozewani 2 years ago
did he consider price increase and the drop of value for the dollar? is it somehow not obvious that most people live on insufficient funds? how is 1 to ten dollars somehow good? they have lost all their resources and perform slave labour in sweatshops. I question his statistics seriously..
gunthaarz 2 years ago 2
I think Rosling uses PPP dollars!
Shahryar1uk 2 years ago
First of all I don't believe that he is the economist that considers not only the statistics he is able to interpret (which includes currency dispartiy for your perspective), the onus should not be on a doctor in medicine with ability of analyzing statistics to compile an all-around study on this issue.
Second, I don't think that at any time he advocated that from $1 to $10 is a GREAT thing. Instead what he suggested is that aid should be more specific and contextual for countries
hmsrenown 2 years ago 4
excellent! does anyone know the name of the tool he is using?
lilacice82 2 years ago
a computer.
simontempleman 2 years ago 2
Thanks. But I meant the software tool.
lilacice82 2 years ago
lololololool
classicalheartburn 2 years ago
brilliant vid! Hans Rosling does it with gusto. i like that (: very informative too with wow-ing visuals.
does any1 know where i can access the stats software program Rosling used in the presentation?
would be very helpful for my presentations. thanks in advance for any help!
vaaaaaaaaaal 2 years ago
just visit his site, gapminder
click over "explore the world" and the tool will load.
rogerpenna 2 years ago
Knowledge is power. Data is clearly powdered knowledge and this software is like adding water. The power to live better lives just seems to grow out of the soil.
More like this.
pcq19947 2 years ago
I think the most important thing to do is give Africans equal opportunity to export their products. Removing trade barriers will do more good than developmentaid.
HinyNL 2 years ago 2
I wouldn't be so sure my friend, what happened in countries like chile, the one catching cuba was recievin billions of dollars in U.S. aid a country such as Russia who recieved no such aid sent around 20 million in to poverty, this guy is amasing tho, i got that statistic from Naomi Klienes' shock doctrine
selurbrainonebay 2 years ago
$100 laptop and microfinance.. that's all. The rest will take care of itself.
PS Killer software
TetuaMaana 2 years ago
10:00 Trade = Health + Wealth
Memubitsu 2 years ago
More people should see this. A lot more.
Mumfin 2 years ago 7
whats intrestin is all da comments posted without any proof...regebro is a good example.. u talk as tho others are wrong & yor point of view is the only truth...none of u r on so r u able to comment ? yes of course ut there just ideas so dont knock others as tho yor know it all..."I guess you should take a look again, With glasses this time".u no wot i mean regbro :)
celebrityselftalk 2 years ago
Point of views are never the truth, least of all the only truth. So neither my or your point of view is truth. They are point of views. But that doesn't mean that nothing is true. There is a truth, but you must differentiate between statements of facts and statements of opinions.
What is it you feel that I should provide proof for?
No I don't know what you mean.
regebro 2 years ago
He can't take your sarcasm... I think he would prefer "take a closer look this time" than "look with glasses this time"
L02T 2 years ago
Yeah, you are right. I should be nicer. :)
regebro 2 years ago
Not completely true. It depends on where there answer came from. If the person is looking for truth, then it is true. Because they are in search for the truth. So if that's where both answers came from then they are both telling the truth. Even if it's two opposite answers. It is still truth because they are seeking the truth.
Link3555 2 years ago
No. Truth is not based on trying or good intentions, but on what is actually the correct truth. You will not automatically find the truth just because you search for it.
regebro 2 years ago
yes this I know. It takes a long time. Sometimes I doubt what I find to be true because I keep searching and find something else out that changes what I found. But if you are searching for truth you will know truth when it finally reaches you. If your truly looking for truth then why wouldn't you recognize it when the time comes? Right?
Link3555 2 years ago
Because it doens't work that way. There is no "final" truth, you can always get closer to the truth. The search for truth is never ending.
And yes, most people have trouble recognizing the truth. That's why we need science. To help of recognize it.
regebro 2 years ago
well that really sucks. That explains why I'm always searching and never finding the correct truth. If there would be a truth then perhaps the only truth would be in the eye of the beholder. Only through faith can one individual alone know the truth. But the truth maybe different for everybody. Sounds like a possibility, but like you can only search for the truth. Whether I find that to even be true, I will always be searching for that truth. Are you the professor in this video?
Link3555 2 years ago
No I'm not.
You can never find the truth by yourself. That's not the truth, that's a guess. And faith is not truth, it's desperately klinging on to your guess even though you have no proof.
But there *is* a way of getting closer and closer to the truth. And it's called science.
regebro 2 years ago
Comment removed
jusbe47 2 years ago
wats interestin is da total lac of spelin n ur coment, bro.
SmileyWhiplash 2 years ago
I can't believe i just watched a 20 minute lecture on world health and world economy....this guy's awesome.
guyincognito84 2 years ago 6
I'm so glad TED Talks is on the internet to educate and inspire us. After all the bias and punditry we are subjected to on a daily basis, it's wonderful to hear something fascinating and backed up by sound research and solid facts.
shiggityx2 2 years ago 3
Someone tell world vision about this so they can stop their damn ads about sponsoring children in Africa.
DoveAlexa 2 years ago
Though it is still a reality in some areas. But sure, the advertisers are taking advantage on our preconceived idea about Africa. They don't want our picture to change... That's just sad.
Mumfin 2 years ago
Robert Solow's Economic Convergence (yet asymptotic) at its finest!
albertocattanr 2 years ago
I wonder if his animations would be different if he used real GDP figures and took real prices and real inflation into account.
dubseller 2 years ago
han är sjuk ihuvudet denna högerkristna galning
handskarav 2 years ago
haha, vilken extrem felanalys.
Pontusky 2 years ago
Haha, vad fan?
DaweyYT 2 years ago
the people on the right are earning 50-100 times more than the left.
thats still a pretty big fucking gap.
"there's no rich and poor divide in the world" ?
that graph is very misleading.
50-100 times more...
5handshigh 2 years ago
A difference is not a gap. If it was a GAP there would be one blob to the left and one to the right and few in the middle. As it was 30 years ago. That was a GAP. Now it's a SPREAD. Big difference.
regebro 2 years ago
this software is amazing
Danelleya 2 years ago 2
Two most important concepts I got from this:
1) There can not be a 'globalised' solution to a Region ie. Africa. The disparity between countries and within countries themselves demands a specific solution to each specific circumstance.
2) That health is more important than wealth in determining a country's progression.
Great stuff!
truantone 2 years ago 2
The problem with that conclusion is that one of the important determinations of health is....wealth. :)
regebro 2 years ago
not determination. correlation =/= causation XD they just tend to move together due to eg. changes in policies, leaders etc. plus it's an upward spiral, for most cases. Wealth with no access or poor healthcare plan is useless. Health with no foreign investment or proper education is useless too.
IMO it's not all that important (look at the relatively low gradient when some countries are split into different income groups. suggests that without policies, cash is useless. And there is Arabs)
L02T 2 years ago
Wealth is a prerequisite for health care, so it does matter. And what do you talk about causation? He doens't even start to discuss why, he just points out that it *is*. The world has changed. It doesn't look like the Tintin world people tend to imagine that we have. That's his point, and it's very important.
regebro 2 years ago
Prerequisite, but imo I wouldn't emphasize it like you do. There's a lot of cheap ways to promote health that can be implemented in daily life that certain groups of people fail to discover. And I'm just talking about your statement mentioning wealth being vital, not his statement. lol. Me thinks wealth is nothin much. At least in the lower levels like preventing malaria, AIDs...
L02T 2 years ago
How did I emphasize it? I pointed out it's a prerequisite, you agree. So.... why are you still arguing? :-D
regebro 2 years ago
nvm I'm just in an arguing mood..... XD I saw you pounced on him and I felt the urge to pounce back XD
Move along... nothing to see here~
L02T 2 years ago
he talks funny :D
ello195195 2 years ago
Thank you for those U.N., World Bank, IMF stats. Reliable, unbiased, primary resources.
:0
blaziermissy 2 years ago
Been sarcastic! Right?
:P
magua73 2 years ago
I wonder if he could compare a countries mortality rate that resist Western corporatism and neo-colonialism vs those countries that don't.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
Well, he did mentioned Cuba's health care, but otherwise....
magua73 2 years ago
No, it doesn't include that data. However, I have looked at those things. Unfortunately I can't link to the graphs from here..
Since "resist Western corporatism and neo-colonialism" is an euphemism for socialism, you can simply take a look at how socialist the economy of a country is and compare that to other stats. And it turns out that socialist countries have more poverty, more inequality, lower human development and more pollution. Yes, I was surprised too...
regebro 2 years ago
Does anyone know which software he used to make this power point presentation?
yashgandhi 2 years ago
I believe it's his son that has programed the software.
MeatAbstract667 2 years ago
Powerpoint and the flash software available at gapminder . org were the main components
njpalko314 2 years ago
Does anyone have this video with portuguese subtitles?
caveden 2 years ago
Problem is, this just shows data, you need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. And these things take lots of time, so the politicians will need to invest a lot of his year, and the next guy in chair for this gamble.
sirhung 2 years ago
lol you didn't even watch the video, walk the walk? he just said he spent 20 years in africa.
goten1201 2 years ago 5
You're mindless sirhung.
numnunums 2 years ago
Yay, I loved this guy!
cool77man 2 years ago
I love this video! I teach decision support and data analysis in my class and the data analysis and visualization techniques used in this video are amazing. Thank you Hans and TED!
nanos518 2 years ago
very beautiful video thanks for sharing
devenroy 2 years ago
Great teacher
Elderien 2 years ago
Man, there've been many governments passing in my country and they did not do a shit. And with this tool I can fix all the problems myself. Imagine we bring the international trading agreements and then we can plan the best future for the world. With this tecnique we can solve all the problems, except probably the politicans' moral value system ;)
SomeUser9753 2 years ago
Wow! An amazing presentation. So much easier to 'see' what is happening rather than to read ling lists of numbers.
CelticReject 2 years ago 2
Excellent presentation.
comedianhakim 3 years ago