Markos Botsaris: Souliote Leader and Hero of the Greek War of Independence

[ZotiSOKOL]

si valle came duket kjo!!!!

[katoliku252003]

Arvanitika also known Arvanitic (Arvanitika: αρbε̰ρίσ̈τ arbërisht, Greek: αρβανίτικα arvanitika) is the variety of Albanian traditionally spoken by the Arvanites, a population group in Greece. Arvanitika is today an endangered language, as its speakers have been shifting to the use of Greek and most younger members of the community no longer speak it.[2]

[katoliku252003]

Quote: Originally Posted by euagoras Well, to begin with arvanitai is a derivative word of alvanitai(albanians) as they were called that time.Sources are plenty..

[katoliku252003]

The Souliotes were of Albanian origin (Albanian: Suliotët), while the dialect they initially spoke is classified as one of Cham Albanian dialects[22] of Tosk Albanian,[23] and religiously, they belonged to the Church of Constantinople, part of the larger Greek Orthodox Church.

[katoliku252003]

In Ottoman-ruled Epirus, national identity didn't play any role to the social classification of the local society, while religion was the key factor of classification of the local communities. According to this, the Muslim communities in Epirus were classified as Turks, while the Orthodox, like the Souliotes, were classified as Greeks.[20] As sources claim, they had rather a strong local identity.[21]

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Well Greeks have also some non idoeuropean words..What does this mean??Greeks created modern civilisation and they'll always be the first in our Arvanitic hearts.....U use more Greek words than i use Albanian..Democracy Philosphy Mathematics Economy Gastronomy Geometry Physics Clasic etc are only few of the Greek words all European languages use...

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 And only Hitler bealived in biological continuity of nations..It seems u r one of those neonazis..lol Well know that Albanians is a mixture of Goths Illyrians Pelasgians Arabs Franks and Vnenetians...Exactly like Modern Greeks..All nations are mixed nowdays now go play with your toys and leave history to professionals..And this propaganda is pure shit i'm tired of u...I'm going to slap my Albanian slave to work harder and it's your fault..

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Ena comes from the ancient Greek word en wich means one... Educate zourshelf and stop sazing those bullshit...Illyrians were Indoeuropeans like Greeks and Armenians..They mixed with pelasgian a semetic tribe who lived in Modern day Albania and Greece...All true mediteranean nations are a mixture of Indoeuropean and semetic tribes..Anicent Greeks were white as we still are but we also have some dark skinned remrants from those semetic tribes..

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Oh and learn the meaning of the word assimilated lol...And Vlepw ena puli vounisio is Greek...

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 And we are GrecoIllyrians sicne we have both Greek and Illyrian blodd after the mixation of our tribes with the natives...Oh and if u go to Sardinia and sicilly u will find not only Arvanites but also Greeks from Mani (Spartans that migrated there)...The fact that we came from Albania 700 years ago doesn't make us Albanians..Do u want to remind u that Napoleon Zervas was a Souliot and deported all the Chams from Epirus??And Greeks killed Chams not my people lol..Read history..

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Greeks since 1300 that's right!! Which means we are Greeks 700 years now...We killed the Chams in the name of Greece and we assimilated to Greece..What's your problem??U would love to have Albanian consiousnees in Greek populations but u haven't...I don't know about Arvanites of Italy but we Greek Arvanites are proud Greeks..7 prime ministers of this country were Arvanites..If we wanted our independance we would have it but we want to be Greeks..Our faith is in Greek...

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 They aren't brainwashed Albanians they r GrecoIllyrians...Albanians is a term used to describe the tribes of the post Illyrian age...400 fucking years passed and we embrashed Greece as our motherland...Foustanella is given to Greece from us and we want to stay there..Scots came from Ireland to Scotland..Does this mean they r Irish now?? Kilt was originally created in Ireland but Scots are widelly known for this..We r the Arvanites and we r Greeks not Albanians...

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Bullshit my ash the language doesn't make nations...We r Greeks like it or not...We fight along with Serbs and we gladly do it...We also genocided all the Chams in Epirus and guess what i'm an Arvanit from my mother's side...We have coction to Illyrians not u...U r the disgrace of the Ballkans..

[georgeellas]

@ktm066 If you think they are speaking albanian in this polyphonic song they you dont know albanian, every word is greek in this version of the song, every last word. I know the same version of this song in Arvanitika and this isnt it. you are wrong!

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Well I don't say that i say that Arvanit Greeks dispice u....The rest of the Greeks is something else...And the deportation of the Chams in Epirus in 1944 was held by a Souliot his name was Napoleon Zervas and his partizan group EDES..The bigest percentage of EDES volunteers were Arvanites and Souliots in Epirus...So u can't blame us Greeks for genocide and at the same time consider Arvanites as Albanians....They are Greeks despite their origin....

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Oh and one of the Greek volunteers in the Yugoslav war and Kossovo was actually an Arvanit like it or not...This shows how they feel about you....

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Idiot is someone who can't understand a simple thing and in this case u r the idiot my friend...Go in Elefsina and tell them oh u Arvanites are Albanians eh?? I wish i will be there when u do it hahahahah!!!!! Whatever hapens to u is goinna be by your false judgment...

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Francois Puquevill and Paparigopoulos wrote it as well....Not to mention Marcos's own letters to the rest leaders of the Greek revolution..Arvanites are Greeks with Albanian heritage so what?? Does this make them less Greeks?? Why? Because u say so?? Your ultranationalist propaganda must stop..Arvanites have Greek national consiousness not Albanian simply cause Albanians gained national consiousness a100 years after the Arvanites..7 Prime ministers of Greece were Arvanites enough said..

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 We do not speak Albanian..Arvanites speak Arvanitika a form of Albanian with Greek idioms.... Modern Greeks is a mixture of Vlachs Venetians Greeks Albanians and some Arabs the best and the most bravest warriors in the world..The trade language (Greek) and religious language (also Greek for Orthodoxs) was widelly used during the Ottoman ocupation which means Arvanites were billingual..Marcos Botsaris declared himshelf as a Roman and later a Greek (Ellinas)...

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 U and the Nazis right??? I won't bother answering this comment mate..Its so rediculous that speaks from itshelf strict laws looool...I i know many Albanian girls here that have relationship with Greeks this proves your points about strict laws doesn't it??loooll

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 There are also some dark skinned Albanians what does this mean?? And original Turks have Mongol characteristics not Iranian characteristics like modern Turks..And why anthropology has something to do with the birth of a nation?? The thing that we can prove some nations exist is the language and the costumes..Well Greek costumes survived despite the mixture..Albanians are a mixed nation too all Europe is a mixture nation...This has nothing to do with national consiousness....

[Jeffanos]

@ktm066 Define Albanians...Christians or Muslims?? There is a huge difference... Nowdays modern Albanians are the remrants of Ottoman rule in Ballkans...For Greeks Arvanite is a different thing from Albanian...Arvanites are the Hellinised Albanians and Albanians are the Turkisised Albanians...Just tribes not a nation... That's why Arvanites matched their national identities with Greeks 7 prime ministers of Greece were Arvanites this makes it hard to consider them Albanians...

[KosovaChelseaTBA]

his name was Marko Bocari!!!!

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

Maybe they did but so did the christian culture that took over our Pagan culture.I think it is good although arrived through tragic means that the Mediterranean world has such an array of influences.Was not Christianity viewed in similar fashion before it became the official religion by the Romans? You are too biased. Christianity is not a mixture of pagan traditions but it stole pagan traditions and holidays(ex. Christmas) and called them Christian.Islam Christianity all the same.

[balkancoolhead]

@Yanitsaros ... i am optimistic about a second human renaissance as well, but you are incredibly narrow minded if you think it will be another hellenistic period with an exclusively euro-centric model. the days of excluding hinduism and the asian cultural roots, as well as africa, egypt, etc. are gone, so as always, you are living in a fishbowl of nationalism and wishful thinking. anyway, it doesn't much matter, we the people of the balkans have apparently done it to ourselves yet again. peace.

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

It is only a small part in a long history why should i feel honored to be under a foreign rule? the greeks proudly called themselves romioi not us. It is not a contradiction at all to be proud of both but it is not a requirement either. What separates the ottoman turks from the byzantine rule?

[balkancoolhead]

@Yanitsaros ... through this self-questioning and a diminishing of the irrational affection you have for a single fragment of a larger body, you may discover within yourself more compassion for others and, even perhaps a yearning to learn more about your brothers across the imaginary political border. peace to you in 2011.

[balkancoolhead]

@Yanitsaros ...join is in a more tolerant and balanced interpretation of history, one that brings us together, rather than inculcating yet another generation with divisive conceptions. might i suggest that you begin with a deep honest examination of what militant orthodoxy did to Salonika, transforming it from a beacon of tolerance to a bastion of fundamentalism. so advanced culturally was Salonika before, that some jews & muslims actually formed a new religion that brought their views together.

[balkancoolhead]

@Yanitsaros ... it sounds simple enough, and at least you are consistent. i suppose the flaw is that you hold byzantium at the center of your modern narrative, rather than viewing it as a lesser period that followed the miracles of ancient Hellas. this is where albanians & greeks depart views, since our culture is based on all the myriad events that have occurred in our region over time. as such we respect all fragments of monotheism, but they take a backseat to our glorious pagan origins.

[balkancoolhead]

this video expresses the sentiments of all against the ottoman occupation at that point in history, it is not greek or albanian... and the ironic fact of history is that Ali Pasha cleared the way for greek independence by fighting the ottomans for the greatest degree of autonomy ever achieved for any region within the ottoman empire and in the end, he paid with his life as ottoman's killed him in cold blood... the Souliotes made peace with Ali in the end, because Albanian Besa transcended all.

[balkancoolhead]

@balkancoolhead ... since the modern greek culture does not have Besa or anything close to it, we of course see the culture attempting to usurp it and pretend it is their own... this is the more shameful aspect of neo-hellenism which employs methods that today would be referred to simply as cultural genocide, rather than heroism.

[unfukkkmee]

MARKOS BOTSARIS IS GREEK

ARVANITES ARE GREEKS

[unfukkkmee]

----

[gpulaj]

I know a song on the same theme from the lab village of Tragjas. Look for "Kenge Labe-Tragjasi_Vajzat e Sulit mes Holla"

[bylysi]

@AIGLE2TETE

Ky eshte kar me zile.Genjen nga inati.

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

Who is this them and they? Since when are Arvanites a single entity and not a group of people with the same at least in the past ethnic and cultural background?

It does not matter what one Arvanite feels like or his feelings can not change his or her past.We cant change who we are because we have feelings to do such. Who are these serial converters who want Arvanites to embrace Albanian nationalism??? stop distorting and trying to create conflict you damn liar.

[balkancoolhead]

@bylysi ... it has nothing to do with embracing albanian nationalism, that is the fear that others more clever than you have placed in your head as a natural buffer for reaching out and connecting with albanians as brothers... it has simply to do with embracing the reality of the enormous, perhaps primary influence of medieval albanian culture on your modern identity... "the old language" is Albanian, and this is your own expression, not ours... embrace us as brothers and we will all rise.

[bylysi]

@balkancoolhead

Did you read what i wrote or did you just spot words and started going off on a mental run. You made many mistakes in your answer to me because my comments went over your head. Read what i wrote and understand the context first. I dont have to embrace anybody as anything, everybody chooses to act a certain way which doesnt hurt nor help me if people call me brother or stranger. Arvanite culture, language and other aspects of their identity are naturally similar to my own.

[balkancoolhead]

@bylysi ... some confusion here bylysi, i did not intend to reply to your post... sorry bro!

[bylysi]

@balkancoolhead

no prob brother

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

I thought i answered your stupidity already.

Yes yannikari he did just as he did the french language.Marko was very very intelligent person and this could be seen in many aspects of his life from his language skills to his military skills etc.Greek was not a common language of christian you monkey it was the official language of the idiotic greek orthodox church.Christian peasants did not know greek unless they were greek and lets face it that was minimal.And the legal ones? haha

[alexandersname]

000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000000000000000000­000000000pious ta lea afta

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

Sure as you wish even though this dictionary by Bocari was not the first to record Albanian language.And the oldest recording of Albanian is by Albanians.But thanks again for enlightening me.

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

Wait dont divide Arvanites vlahs and greeks hahaha

i thought they were all the same to begin with?

it was the language of the church and the one philhellens from western europe and russia wanted.Can i compose a dictionary in english and Albanian? randoom question.Well i study a lot of different subjects so if i dedicated myself then yes i could compose such a dictionary, mind you it would not be a high level but at least basic.And yes we know of hellenised slavs.

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

Oh yes greatly.Cant you tell?

Well to respond to your challenging arguments.Kastrioti was a Byzantine noble.And what was the official language of that empire? So wouldn't it makes sense for him to send it in that language? You are writing to me in English why not your glorious greek? haha idiot.

To Bocari now.Bocari did not make it for the french he made it for Albanians and greeks to understand each other.The French scholar was inclined to tell him why exactly? Do you know?

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

He mastered the French too before he learned greek you forgot to mention.Oh and he must have been a master if he wrote an Albanian dictionary as well.

Greek was the official language of Byzantine empire not the people under Byzantine rule,and a christian language?HEH Are serious?

Well we cant be as mature-minded such as your self of course.I just realized that you really are borderline moronic no offense .Its cool for children but for you it should be a shame.Grow up boy.

[bylysi]

@Yanitsaros

yes he learned it after he had learned french.when he was 21 years old.

Albanians have fought each other many times in many instances in history as have every civilization that walked this earth.what is your point?

[Jeffanos]

A re Marko palikaria san esena edwsan th zwh tous gia thn Ellada......

[Jeffanos]

Simply cause Arvanites Hellinised if u see Papuros Larus a famous encyclopedia Arvanites grouped with other Greek tribal groups such as Sarakatsani Maniots Macedonians and Cretans despite their Albanian origin....

[Jeffanos]

And Yes Arvanites are Greeks like it or not they knew that they fought for Greece they knew they libarated Greece they also took high positions in Goverment and the millitary and still none even mentioned Albania....

[Jeffanos]

Fustanela influenced by Tosks but Greeks developed their designs to feet more in Greek peninsula Foustanella is Greek costume....

[Jeffanos]

Exactly History sais that Christian Albanian tribes who lived in Epirus mixed with Greeks influencing them in some point (as u mentioned Tosks clothing adopted by the rest of the Greeks and others) but they also been influenced by Greeks in some of their costumes as Apokries or Religious festivals even their names have Greek origin Apostolos which mean Apostol or Christos Greek names.....

[bylysi]

@Jeffanos

influencing goes both ways.but when there is claims that is one sided then these arguments creep out.

[Jeffanos]

Go ask a Souliot or an Arvanit what he feels.... And Mihas also said that despite their origin Arvanites are so strongly bonded with Greece that they feel Arvanitika their language was part of Greek dialect even if its an Albanian dialect...

[Jeffanos]

U just can't accept how easilly Greek Orthodox Albanian tribes mixed with Greeks and adopted their ways i don't care minorites is previlage of Western Europe not Balkans accept it and u will be fine...

[Jeffanos]

And Arvanites cntributed to the creation of our national heritage but they are not the bigest part.... Janisaries contributed in creating Turkish national consious deos this means they must be consider Greeks??

[Jeffanos]

I will not try to convice a stuborn nationalist like u... Greek national consious have been proved in Arvanites despite their ethnic origins go to Elefsina and as one of them what he feels u try to propagade but minority thing is dead in Greece so dead as the stupid chams in Epirus....

[Jeffanos]

Go ask a Souliot if he wants to be considered as a minority he would probably feel insulted... Minorities is something Greece did her best to avoid thanx to Zervas and EDES if u know what i mean...

[Jeffanos]

It was very simple in 19th century if u were an Orthodox Christian u were Greek if were Muslim u were an Ottoman the term Christian Alabnian was founded after the creation of Albania in 1914.....Back in 1821 life was simple....

[Jeffanos]

U confuse facts i always say Souliots were of Albanian origin with Greek national consious... Janisaries were Islamised Greeks does it means that they were Greeks?? No they were Turks simply cause they felt Turks...

[Jeffanos]

And Souliots gave shelter a lot of times in Sarakatsani klephts which means they didn't hate Greeks.... There are a lot of examples who prove the great relationship Souliots had with the rest of the Greeks...

[Jeffanos]

And they spoke Greek simply cause they heard divine letourgy in Greek.. Their priests spoke Greek.... My professor in composition is a Souliot ask him if he feels an Albanian.... Hhahahaha he also made jokes for Albanians...

[Jeffanos]

U atempt to change history in vain my friend... Souliot leaders as Kitsos Tzavelas and Markos Botsaris gave oath in the Greek revolutionary organisation Filiki Eteria to give their lives for Greece....Not Albania Greece..

[Jeffanos]

The name Albanian is a 20th century invantion... Souliotes were a Grecoalbanian mix with Greek national consious and Greek orthodox religion.. All Souliotes spoke two languages Arvanitika and Greek it wasn't too dificult for them to understand the rest of the Greeks as history proves.....

[cambsuk]

stop with this bollshit this song is an albanian polifonik song u fagots which only albanians sing this one ....

[Jeffanos]

No mate Greek Epirotes may have been influenced by Albanian folklore elements but Bulgharians influenced too is like saying Rap is only American genre.... This is a Greek song to honour one of the true Patriots of Greece....

[vetvetja99]

but this is still a nice song of an Albanian hero who fought for the revolution against Ottoman occupation.

[papstam]

You are joking here. 4000 Turks and Albanians were fighting together that day against Markos and his Greek warriors. And this is not an opinion, it is only history. I'm sorry for you

[vetvetja99]

Albania has a hatred for christianity? lol that is a blatant lie and a direct offense to many Albanian christians. where the hell do you greeks come up with this garbage? must be the extremism and distortions brought on by the fanatical greek church, such anti European ideals and theories, its just ridiculous.

[ethnikhart]

why those albanians sing in greek, ? dosnt feel strange to you that accent in this albanian poliphony ? andyou still talk about hate when you refer on them.

[finiqi]

who are albanians??????

this is the group of Dedes' family from the greek village Dervicani of Argirokastro prefecture an they sing a tradional epirotian song for the hero of Greek Independence Markos Botsaris.

[ethnikhart]

IK QIU

[ethnikhart]

ps. kurve.

[nickpafras]

it is not albanian poliphony. it is Epirus region poliphony. Greeks have been living in that region just as long as albanians have. the music from Epirus does not belong to Greeks or Albanians. It belongs to the region of Epirus.

[ethnikhart]

@nickpafras ,they sing wonderful and i agree you . Wish you a happy New Year!

[pippy02]

albanians are muslim scum who dont belong in Christian Europe how hard is it for you to comprehend eroshi???? go find yourself another identity this ones taken (its our God given right) by us Greeks!

thanks for providing the truth yet again Yanitsare :-)

[eroshi]

Oh, not clever. I said you are a dick, not that you have a dick. I don't know if there is an Albanian version to the song. I am saying, that with all the music village and such bullshit that greeks organize and will all the assimilated albanians they have to sing lab polyphony, overall they still suck extremely. And this comes from a man that has lab polyphony in every cell of his body.

[eroshi]

This excuse here seems very much like bullshit you've made up, but let's assume it isn't. What does this tell us? Obviously that the french man requested the dictionary from a an Albanian man since only such a man would speak Albanian that well that he would be able to write a dictionary. And as far as Albanian lore is concerned, your ignorance is far to vast.

[eroshi]

Me send you the links? You the avid historian don't know of such things, of your own compatriots admitting the truth? I

You seem to have forgotten english. I never said there was an Albanian side to the church, but there we definetly albanian priests who did services in albanian, and many of them were murdered for this. And no most of the population spoke no greek whatsoever.

[eroshi]

Yanikari, the albanian-greek dictionary he made was not for the reason to teach greeks albanian, but the other way around. And oh yeah yanikari, there were such things as albanian priest as well. Your arguments keep getting weaker, but that's no surprise anyways.

[eroshi]

Yanikari, your own television station called Ert2 with Mamalaki as the host did a documentary on soulitotes, and in the documentary it's clearly admitted that all souliotes spoke no greek whatsoever. And yanikari, bocari was not a priest and did not need to read liturgy.

[eroshi]

shhhh yanikari. I heard this type of singing since I was in the womb. I am lab myself. Even I that can't sing, can do better than these guys.

[eroshi]

Interesting he didn't learn greek until he was 21 years old though...

[eroshi]

Uhahahaha It's like an amatuer telling Jordan you don't play basketball in an aesthetic way. This is a very cheap imitation of 4 part lab polyphony.

[IanHunedoara8]

Ieniceare, frat, beautiful polyphonic! Evocative of a time when when the main export of Epirus was Epiroites.

[bylysi]

uuu zing.good one "greek".

the same country who breaks all its own laws and repsects no international laws.sounds like a renegade province to me.

the eu,natu,usa ec etc are helping albania surpass your country because it was crippled by the comunist regime.and already it is surpassing you fakers at a fast pace so you can only put it down.continue please no one gives a f...

the ottomans didnt even call no one arvanites.they called us arnauts.and yes thats "arvanites" too.

[bylysi]

i didnt know modern albania was the same country in the time of ottomans.haha nice move faggot but not good enough.argue with children because a person with a head and a brain to use it is not going to take you serious with these teenager arguments.

[ariesmp]

This one is 100 % from Argyrokastro. No doubt. There are many kinds of polyphonic songs. But you wound't know it. You don't have it.

[ariesmp]

hahahahahahhaahhahahaahahhahah­ahah Greeks who sing Iso Plyphonic. Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah­ahahahahaha

[BlacK40k]

Also the doric already sang with polyphonic, where´s the problem?

[muskulozi]

Yanitsaros Labs are Albanians.Marko Bocari was Albanian same as Sotiris Ninis-Sotir Nini-plays in panathiakos and sold himself for a fucked greece passport .And this songs is albanian song just translated to greece language

[Epicomahos]

allo i glossa... dioti apo oson diavasa.. oi idioi elegan eimaste apogono iarxaion ellinon... kati akoma... ta pontiaka ti einai ? ta kypriaka exoun italikes, tourkikes mexri kai arabikes lexeis...

i glossa den exei na kanei toso me to aima... dioti kai oi kypreoi exoun paraksena epitheta.... Karaolis p.x pou vgainei apo to karaolos- saliggari ....mi sou epitheta pou vgainoun apo ksenes glosses.... einai sta plaisia tis logikis

[Epicomahos]

ego akousa alles ekdoxes .... oti to arvanitis den vgainei apo to albanos... alla apo mia poli arxaia pou legetai Αρβων ...den vgainei apo to albanos.... me pianeis ?

[Epicomahos]

fyle kata tin apopsi sou oi souliotes itan ellines?

[BlacK40k]

or try to taking it for their "Great Albania" lol

[BlacK40k]

I see, thank you, i never heard about this, i thought there would only exist Cham-Albanians

[BlacK40k]

Labs? What you mean with that? :)

[benush2]

labs are albanians yes?

[benush2]

albanian song style.

[BlacK40k]

Where can i found that Painting from 3:21?

[BeratLA]

Nice video Yanitsaros!

[the5thillusion]

Ahh, I was a bit disappointed you know, I was hoping to take part in the fun

[Laistrigonas]

some pics are really nice!

[Thiseas1974]

Nice video !!

[the5thillusion]

where's the trollfest of the albanian apes?

[ILLUVATAR85]

Albanians= now loading plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz­zzzz wait ;).