This is an amazing interview, not because I agree with him but because he doesnt bring up really important and real issues such as how does money which concept based on infinite growth collide with a finite planet. Also the understanding of interest and how that works moment. And he never really focuses on this word but VALUE changes everything. Whatever currency there is it holds a value. Also technological unemployment?
The idea of a money revolution is a very backwards-thinking idea. Having multiple digital moneys is actually very similar to a bartering system, which leaves many who keep savings at a risk of unpredictable devaluation
He is discussing a transaction method of money which I agree with. However he has no answer about the creation of the digital money. How that money is created determines whether population is subject to continued devaluation of their savings.
Haha he takes up world of warcraft gold as a good example? WoW has a notoriously dysfunctional economy with out of control inflation that can only be fought by destroying currency (for example raising repair costs, travel costs, and having huge prices for essential items that can only be obtained by NPCs). That destroyed money is never put back into circulation, and since anyone can farm money by killing respawning enemies, everyone can create a fortune and accelerate the inflation.
@InvertedFox Basically, I'm thinking that there could be multiple forms of exchange rather than just ONE for your geographic region. There could be a bit of democratization of exchange and the nation's GDP would not be the holy grail that it is now. People could choose to exchange in those things that they believed to be valuable and not be forced to use one specific currency. I suppose the idea of decentralization and multiple forms of exchange is what interests me the most.
@kmeadows100 Interesting points, and good job dealing with the 500 char limit. I essentially agree that this is a step in the right direction, and your examples of how currency decentralization may benefit society are insightful. The problem is, as far off as biosphere consciousness and direct, scientific resource management may be, our short term planetary situation is looking increasingly bleak. Eco-systems/life-systems in decline, the oil economy set to collapse etc.
@InvertedFox It's hard to elaborate with 500 characters but... You have good points but I think the zeitgeist dream is still a ways off. Currently, governments have a monopoly on the method of exchange. However, if I could create an "account" of gold, for example, and make an electronic transfer from my phone to another I would "quasi-barter" for goods. People could begin to choose what method of exchange THEY prefer and not simply what is dictated by their particular geographic location.
A future without tangible money sounds scary, however, our paper money's value is based on something virtual already. I think a digital money system could actually have the surprising effect of relinking money or exchange with real commodities. It would be very easy to have accounts in different currencies or in gold, oil, heads of cattle etc. Paying with commodities would simply be pushing a different button your phone. No more "cash or credit?" but "dollars, euros, Bitcoins, gold, silver or.."
@kmeadows100 "I think a digital money system could have the surprising effect of relinking money or exchange with real commodities" - I don't see how this would be the case, perhaps you can elaborate more? As I understand it, the mechanism of money is an intrinsically disconnecting phenomena. Our connection to the planet, tangible resources and commodities is distorted by our obsession with money cycles - GDP, CPI etc. Rather than core life cycles reliant on sustainability, efficiency etc.
We need to go back to the gold standard. People say there isn't enough gold, that is just plain stupid. If there is not a lot of gold the value goes up to compensate. What happens when money that has nothing backing it is over printed? The value of the individual dollars go down, same thing happens if there are less dollars, the value goes up. Gold backed currency is the answer to out of control government printing of money leading to outrageous inflation. And that's the truth.
Cash has the benefit of encouraging frugality. Each frivolous purchase hurts more when you physically hand over the dough. Also, one's wallet can't be hacked, and it doesn't rely on batteries to operate.
I wanted to share this video and YouTube gave me a message I've sent enough - HUH!!?? I will never use Youtube again if I don't have to if they can really do tha to us! Can someone confirm....
If you would like to comment on my views on Bitcoin, which came up in the discussion, please feel free to visit the Tomorrow's Transactions blog (the system won't let me give you the URL)
@dgwbirch I am interested in your views on BitCoin but I can't find the article from the info you have given. I Googled "Tomorrow's Transactions blog" and the first result is chyp(DOT)com/media/blog/ but I can't find any obvious link to the discussion you mention from this page. Can you perhaps post the URL using (DOT) etc. to bypass the system? Or alternatively can you send me the URL via private message. Thanks!
@dgwbirch In the proposed system how will new money be created? How exactly is this process going to decentralize currency control? I gather from a few of your blog posts that the banks will maintain control/regulation of currency but channel it digitally through mobile phone companies. Also, considering your client base is largely multinational banking/telecommunications institutions, do you not have somewhat a vested interest in pushing this direction?
@InvertedFox you are mixing up currency and payments. Microsoft might invent a new currency "Microsoft Dollars" but you might still use them on a Visa card or in a Barclays bank account. Personally, I suspect more decentralised currencies will come to replace more centralised currencies.
As for our client base, the multinational banking/telecommunications companies that we work for are just as interested as I am (and you are) in trying to figure out where this is all going.
@dgwbirch How would these "Microsoft Dollars" be created and put into circulation? Also, the banks channeling these new currencies and providing a payment function, would they offer "Microsoft Dollars" loans etc? If so, would these loans be based upon the 10% reserve loan system we currently use? I share your view that decentralized currencies is a step in the right direction, however I don't see this as a finality in social progression. Just as interested I am sure, but different motives!
@InvertedFox The big conspiracy behind this electronic money scam is that those big banks don't need you to open a savings account or pay you any interest in the future cuz you have to rely on them to store your money anyway. If cash is cancelled, you can't even take a bus without the banks controlling your money by giving you a debit card or mobile phone transaction acct.
sooo.... we'll be using mobile phones and stuff like that in the future like the movie in time where money is no longer used but time which now that i think of it its pretty smart cuz its pretty hard to forge considering the wrong move would get u killed literally
Great. So now governments and corporations could trace every single penny we spend.
I want a guarantee that only the persons originating and receiving a transaction would be able to disclose its full details to 3rd parties, otherwise the apparent convenience would become yet another means of control.
I've watched more than half of this talk and it hasn't even begun to touch on anything to do with the future of money. It also says silly things like "markets always win". Markets and States go hand in hand (see David Graeber's 'Debt: The first 5000 years'). And over the last 5000 odd years publically issued money has generally fared better than bank issued money (see Stephen Zarlenga's The Lost Science of Money).
@jdaviescoates now, finally, in the last 3 minutes he is beginning to say what he thinks the future of money is. Basically all he is saying is that it has something to do with mobile phones. Funny he doesn't even mention the fact you can now trade in Brixton Pounds via SMS. As others have mentioned it is odd he doesn't mention Bitcoin and other digital currencies. All in all I'm glad I didn't actually attend this talk because it is pretty crap.
Where's the money on the phones getting their value from? He almost made it sound like people making money on their phones was similar to printing your own cash money, but that's not what he means so I don't get the truly revolutionary thing about it? Does it lie in its specific value to a certain "community" as he said? He still didn't address the main problem being that money's value isn't fixed or based on any standard anymore.
There was one author in the history who had very good explanation about money and its problems. This was Silvio Gesell and he wrote about his ideas in a book The Natural Economic Order which was published in 1918.
The ideas were experimented with in many places around Europe in 1930, and were a major success. However, as the ideas started to spread, the central banks prohibited these community currencies (in Austria - Wörgl, Germany, and Canada).
16:29 "The future isn't about one money, its about millions of moneys. It's not about the government creating new money, its about you creating new money." Right on!
How did I KNOW that he was going to construct his thesis around the need for electronic currency? About the EVILS of paper currency? He's a deceiver propagating an agenda ANTITHETICAL to the interests of the vast majority. Let me ask YOU a question: these people have had power, have they used this power to YOUR advantage? Give them CENTRALIZED CONTROL AND MONITORING OF YOUR ECONOMIC DAILY LIFE, IN REAL TIME, ON A CONTINUAL BASIS, AND EVERYTHING HITHER TO WILL LOOK LIKE CHILD'S PLAY.
I appreciate a referece to the debt money system from such a reliable source. Most average people think money being created from debt is a conspiracy theory, not a wide spead reality.
Suggesting only criminals want hard cash is a very dangerous and short sighted way of thinking. It criminalizes wanting to take your money out of the banking system, which is your only defence against them. Money withdrawn from one bank would have to become a deposit at another, you're trapped in the system.
@etzel33 "The World Bank went back to gold standard in Nov 2010" - Umm, no it didn't. Robert Zoellick (World Bank chief) suggested the "system should consider gold as an international reference point of market expectations about inflation, deflation and currency values" - that's all. A gold standard couldn't function with the ongoing levels of inflation etc. So long as loans are the method by which new money is created (debt) inflation is inevitable and any notion of a gold standard impossible.
@InvertedFox you may be right, but consider that gold standard was in effect in 1913 and remained so. I agree that debt-money is wrong, but I don't think "gold standard" is the solution.
@etzel33 gold is as useless as paper. so you're right, the gold standard offers no solution whatsoever. gold has some value as far all metals have value in manufacturing, but as currency, gold is no different than paper money as it can only have value if it is believed to have value.
@ontheotherhandx6 I agree. The difficulty on this topic is that there's a difference between "national currency" and private currency. 97% of the money supply is privately issued bank credit. Unsecured credit is backed by future labor, and so we have become a world of debt-slaves IMO. The demand for national currency is the question. I think it should be driven by rent on privilege- land, severance and pollution taxes would give it value.
I thought he was going to talk about the ongoing process of technological unemployment rendering a large percentage of the population permanently jobless therefore making labor for wages obsolete as the basis of our economy... money as a concept, as an abstraction, is preventing us from consciously interacting with our precious finite resources in a sustainable way. Making all money digital etc. doesn't help anything! He could at least mention BitCoin if he is serious about that route...
@InvertedFox Exactly what I thought Inverted. Amazing that he took 18 minutes to say nothing, or worse, to say something completely misguided. How these people have the balls to actually get up there and misdirect entire civilizations, I'll never understand. Money is no longer a viable metric of anything for a significant portion of our population, and the technologies available today make it obsolete for all parts of our civilization, as you rightly stated.
This is an amazing interview, not because I agree with him but because he doesnt bring up really important and real issues such as how does money which concept based on infinite growth collide with a finite planet. Also the understanding of interest and how that works moment. And he never really focuses on this word but VALUE changes everything. Whatever currency there is it holds a value. Also technological unemployment?
makethelaughs 4 days ago
The idea of a money revolution is a very backwards-thinking idea. Having multiple digital moneys is actually very similar to a bartering system, which leaves many who keep savings at a risk of unpredictable devaluation
PokemonFriday 1 week ago
What if inflation was pegged to population. Say 20 thousand per head.
Or what if people were paid using a percentage of the money supply.
callous21 2 weeks ago
He is discussing a transaction method of money which I agree with. However he has no answer about the creation of the digital money. How that money is created determines whether population is subject to continued devaluation of their savings.
maceoremy 2 weeks ago
Bullshit!
l0wfLoW 2 weeks ago
A Resource Based Economy would be my choice for a post-industrial world!
TamaraOtello 2 weeks ago 6
Haha he takes up world of warcraft gold as a good example? WoW has a notoriously dysfunctional economy with out of control inflation that can only be fought by destroying currency (for example raising repair costs, travel costs, and having huge prices for essential items that can only be obtained by NPCs). That destroyed money is never put back into circulation, and since anyone can farm money by killing respawning enemies, everyone can create a fortune and accelerate the inflation.
kekeke01 3 weeks ago
Absolute shite. The future of money has got to be based on resources, not the abstract concept that it has become.
StuLuminos 3 weeks ago 3
@InvertedFox Basically, I'm thinking that there could be multiple forms of exchange rather than just ONE for your geographic region. There could be a bit of democratization of exchange and the nation's GDP would not be the holy grail that it is now. People could choose to exchange in those things that they believed to be valuable and not be forced to use one specific currency. I suppose the idea of decentralization and multiple forms of exchange is what interests me the most.
kmeadows100 3 weeks ago
@kmeadows100 Interesting points, and good job dealing with the 500 char limit. I essentially agree that this is a step in the right direction, and your examples of how currency decentralization may benefit society are insightful. The problem is, as far off as biosphere consciousness and direct, scientific resource management may be, our short term planetary situation is looking increasingly bleak. Eco-systems/life-systems in decline, the oil economy set to collapse etc.
InvertedFox 3 weeks ago
@InvertedFox It's hard to elaborate with 500 characters but... You have good points but I think the zeitgeist dream is still a ways off. Currently, governments have a monopoly on the method of exchange. However, if I could create an "account" of gold, for example, and make an electronic transfer from my phone to another I would "quasi-barter" for goods. People could begin to choose what method of exchange THEY prefer and not simply what is dictated by their particular geographic location.
kmeadows100 3 weeks ago
A future without tangible money sounds scary, however, our paper money's value is based on something virtual already. I think a digital money system could actually have the surprising effect of relinking money or exchange with real commodities. It would be very easy to have accounts in different currencies or in gold, oil, heads of cattle etc. Paying with commodities would simply be pushing a different button your phone. No more "cash or credit?" but "dollars, euros, Bitcoins, gold, silver or.."
kmeadows100 3 weeks ago
@kmeadows100 "I think a digital money system could have the surprising effect of relinking money or exchange with real commodities" - I don't see how this would be the case, perhaps you can elaborate more? As I understand it, the mechanism of money is an intrinsically disconnecting phenomena. Our connection to the planet, tangible resources and commodities is distorted by our obsession with money cycles - GDP, CPI etc. Rather than core life cycles reliant on sustainability, efficiency etc.
InvertedFox 3 weeks ago
I have a swipe reader for my Android phone. Works very nicely.
kd1s 4 weeks ago
Can you do a RSAnimate to this?
quietlike 4 weeks ago
We need to go back to the gold standard. People say there isn't enough gold, that is just plain stupid. If there is not a lot of gold the value goes up to compensate. What happens when money that has nothing backing it is over printed? The value of the individual dollars go down, same thing happens if there are less dollars, the value goes up. Gold backed currency is the answer to out of control government printing of money leading to outrageous inflation. And that's the truth.
EagleScoutBSA100 4 weeks ago
Cash has the benefit of encouraging frugality. Each frivolous purchase hurts more when you physically hand over the dough. Also, one's wallet can't be hacked, and it doesn't rely on batteries to operate.
cbrusharmy 4 weeks ago
I wanted to share this video and YouTube gave me a message I've sent enough - HUH!!?? I will never use Youtube again if I don't have to if they can really do tha to us! Can someone confirm....
Tangerine597 4 weeks ago in playlist Economics and Business
I don't understand how this comment system works - it keeps saying "error, try again" if include anything with slashes in at all!
Anyway, yes, go to the Tomorrow's Transactions blog and then put "bitcoin" into the search box. Look for the entry "a bit of a show".
dgwbirch 4 weeks ago
@dgwbirch links are not allowed, which sucks.
Ranger4564 4 weeks ago
If you would like to comment on my views on Bitcoin, which came up in the discussion, please feel free to visit the Tomorrow's Transactions blog (the system won't let me give you the URL)
dgwbirch 1 month ago
@dgwbirch I am interested in your views on BitCoin but I can't find the article from the info you have given. I Googled "Tomorrow's Transactions blog" and the first result is chyp(DOT)com/media/blog/ but I can't find any obvious link to the discussion you mention from this page. Can you perhaps post the URL using (DOT) etc. to bypass the system? Or alternatively can you send me the URL via private message. Thanks!
InvertedFox 1 month ago
@dgwbirch In the proposed system how will new money be created? How exactly is this process going to decentralize currency control? I gather from a few of your blog posts that the banks will maintain control/regulation of currency but channel it digitally through mobile phone companies. Also, considering your client base is largely multinational banking/telecommunications institutions, do you not have somewhat a vested interest in pushing this direction?
InvertedFox 1 month ago
@InvertedFox you are mixing up currency and payments. Microsoft might invent a new currency "Microsoft Dollars" but you might still use them on a Visa card or in a Barclays bank account. Personally, I suspect more decentralised currencies will come to replace more centralised currencies.
As for our client base, the multinational banking/telecommunications companies that we work for are just as interested as I am (and you are) in trying to figure out where this is all going.
dgwbirch 4 weeks ago
@dgwbirch How would these "Microsoft Dollars" be created and put into circulation? Also, the banks channeling these new currencies and providing a payment function, would they offer "Microsoft Dollars" loans etc? If so, would these loans be based upon the 10% reserve loan system we currently use? I share your view that decentralized currencies is a step in the right direction, however I don't see this as a finality in social progression. Just as interested I am sure, but different motives!
InvertedFox 3 weeks ago
@InvertedFox The big conspiracy behind this electronic money scam is that those big banks don't need you to open a savings account or pay you any interest in the future cuz you have to rely on them to store your money anyway. If cash is cancelled, you can't even take a bus without the banks controlling your money by giving you a debit card or mobile phone transaction acct.
stephentsang2000 3 weeks ago
shout out to Kenya and the Mobile Money Revolution. Mpesa now moving more money per year in Kenya than Western Union does globally.
BretLaRoche 1 month ago
sooo.... we'll be using mobile phones and stuff like that in the future like the movie in time where money is no longer used but time which now that i think of it its pretty smart cuz its pretty hard to forge considering the wrong move would get u killed literally
manday42 1 month ago
World of Warcraft gold… FTW?
LOL
PolitcalIslam 1 month ago
Great. So now governments and corporations could trace every single penny we spend.
I want a guarantee that only the persons originating and receiving a transaction would be able to disclose its full details to 3rd parties, otherwise the apparent convenience would become yet another means of control.
jotaeleemeese 1 month ago
If Mobile phones will get rid of cash how do I buy my first mobile phone? Will they be supplied by the banks?
ThisNameTakenAlready 1 month ago
I've watched more than half of this talk and it hasn't even begun to touch on anything to do with the future of money. It also says silly things like "markets always win". Markets and States go hand in hand (see David Graeber's 'Debt: The first 5000 years'). And over the last 5000 odd years publically issued money has generally fared better than bank issued money (see Stephen Zarlenga's The Lost Science of Money).
jdaviescoates 1 month ago
@jdaviescoates now, finally, in the last 3 minutes he is beginning to say what he thinks the future of money is. Basically all he is saying is that it has something to do with mobile phones. Funny he doesn't even mention the fact you can now trade in Brixton Pounds via SMS. As others have mentioned it is odd he doesn't mention Bitcoin and other digital currencies. All in all I'm glad I didn't actually attend this talk because it is pretty crap.
jdaviescoates 1 month ago
Where's the money on the phones getting their value from? He almost made it sound like people making money on their phones was similar to printing your own cash money, but that's not what he means so I don't get the truly revolutionary thing about it? Does it lie in its specific value to a certain "community" as he said? He still didn't address the main problem being that money's value isn't fixed or based on any standard anymore.
MonkkSoori 1 month ago
There was one author in the history who had very good explanation about money and its problems. This was Silvio Gesell and he wrote about his ideas in a book The Natural Economic Order which was published in 1918.
The ideas were experimented with in many places around Europe in 1930, and were a major success. However, as the ideas started to spread, the central banks prohibited these community currencies (in Austria - Wörgl, Germany, and Canada).
xtronom 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
Check out ripple...watch?v=KzzUpmxoC4Q
HoloplexProductions 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
16:29 "The future isn't about one money, its about millions of moneys. It's not about the government creating new money, its about you creating new money." Right on!
HoloplexProductions 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
Absolutely - and as soon as we realise that the software that we are using to pay each others phones don't need the input a bank at all.
Why can't something like Bitcoin become a valid form of payment with my phone?
Then we'll shift the profits from banks and into a free economy.
xhable 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
I guess he hasn't heard of BitCoin... yet he mentions World of Warcraft currency. I smell a gnome mage lurking about.
jcd302 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business 9
@jcd302 Lulz…
PolitcalIslam 1 month ago
How did I KNOW that he was going to construct his thesis around the need for electronic currency? About the EVILS of paper currency? He's a deceiver propagating an agenda ANTITHETICAL to the interests of the vast majority. Let me ask YOU a question: these people have had power, have they used this power to YOUR advantage? Give them CENTRALIZED CONTROL AND MONITORING OF YOUR ECONOMIC DAILY LIFE, IN REAL TIME, ON A CONTINUAL BASIS, AND EVERYTHING HITHER TO WILL LOOK LIKE CHILD'S PLAY.
wisdomtrek 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
I appreciate a referece to the debt money system from such a reliable source. Most average people think money being created from debt is a conspiracy theory, not a wide spead reality.
AnnoyedDragon 1 month ago
Suggesting only criminals want hard cash is a very dangerous and short sighted way of thinking. It criminalizes wanting to take your money out of the banking system, which is your only defence against them. Money withdrawn from one bank would have to become a deposit at another, you're trapped in the system.
AnnoyedDragon 1 month ago
Comment removed
dririthlan 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
The World Bank went back to gold standard in Nov 2010... I guess everything's just fine now.
etzel33 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
@etzel33 "The World Bank went back to gold standard in Nov 2010" - Umm, no it didn't. Robert Zoellick (World Bank chief) suggested the "system should consider gold as an international reference point of market expectations about inflation, deflation and currency values" - that's all. A gold standard couldn't function with the ongoing levels of inflation etc. So long as loans are the method by which new money is created (debt) inflation is inevitable and any notion of a gold standard impossible.
InvertedFox 1 month ago
@InvertedFox you may be right, but consider that gold standard was in effect in 1913 and remained so. I agree that debt-money is wrong, but I don't think "gold standard" is the solution.
etzel33 1 month ago
@etzel33 I agree, the gold standard is not a solution.
InvertedFox 1 month ago
@etzel33 gold is as useless as paper. so you're right, the gold standard offers no solution whatsoever. gold has some value as far all metals have value in manufacturing, but as currency, gold is no different than paper money as it can only have value if it is believed to have value.
ontheotherhandx6 1 month ago
@ontheotherhandx6 I agree. The difficulty on this topic is that there's a difference between "national currency" and private currency. 97% of the money supply is privately issued bank credit. Unsecured credit is backed by future labor, and so we have become a world of debt-slaves IMO. The demand for national currency is the question. I think it should be driven by rent on privilege- land, severance and pollution taxes would give it value.
etzel33 1 month ago
I thought he was going to talk about the ongoing process of technological unemployment rendering a large percentage of the population permanently jobless therefore making labor for wages obsolete as the basis of our economy... money as a concept, as an abstraction, is preventing us from consciously interacting with our precious finite resources in a sustainable way. Making all money digital etc. doesn't help anything! He could at least mention BitCoin if he is serious about that route...
InvertedFox 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business 43
@InvertedFox Exactly what I thought Inverted. Amazing that he took 18 minutes to say nothing, or worse, to say something completely misguided. How these people have the balls to actually get up there and misdirect entire civilizations, I'll never understand. Money is no longer a viable metric of anything for a significant portion of our population, and the technologies available today make it obsolete for all parts of our civilization, as you rightly stated.
Ranger4564 4 weeks ago
Mises, Hayek, Rothbard, and Paul are right. Fiat does not work.
KitSerrone 1 month ago
@KitSerrone Neither does gold, you austrian hardheaded dumbass!
IC1101 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business
@IC1101 do you have a point, other than the dimwitted name calling, i mean?
sondio 1 month ago in playlist Economics and Business