fluting 10/22 barrel

[John4566442]

The following is from the Shilen website under FAQ. Shilen is known to make quality barrels. Whether they are the better than Hart, Krieger, Douglas is debatable. Whether you agree with the information posted bellow or not, here is at lleast a little info from one makers point of view.

[John4566442]

Fluting is a service we neither offer nor recommend. If you have a Shilen barrel fluted, the warranty is void. Fluting a barrel can induce unrecoverable stresses that will encourage warping when heated and can also swell the bore dimensions, causing loose spots in the bore. A solid (un-fluted) barrel is more rigid than a fluted barrel of equal diameter. A fluted barrel is more rigid than a solid barrel of equal weight

[John4566442]

All rifle barrels flex when fired. Accuracy requires that they simply flex the same and return the same each time they are fired, hence the requirement for a pillar bedded action and free floating barrel. The unrecoverable stresses that fluting can induce will cause the barrel to flex differently or not return from the flexing without cooling down a major amount.

[John4566442]

This is usually longer than a shooter has to wait for the next shot. The claim of the flutes helping to wick heat away faster is true, but the benefit of the flutes is not recognizable in this regard until the barrel is already too hot. –Shilen barrels

[clap5]

Someone told me you can not flute a finished barrel because it will heat it up and warp the barrel. Is that true?

[nerdymechanic]

@clap5 It could. but that is why so much fluid is being used, to help reduce the risk. Also depends on what the barrel is made from.

[clap5]

@nerdymechanic

well not so much the process of fluting. what I'm talking about is heating up during extended firing. if the flutes are not equally deep in proportion to the center of the barrel...the deeper flute will be the weakest point. to where the heat will tend to gather faster...which will warp the barrel? I have a stainless steel barrel I think I want fluted. this is for my 5.56 ar.

[Ct2003cbt]

Nylon 66 oh yea

[seberusnet]

what is the purpose of fluting?

[benz1125]

@seberusnet

to lighten the barrel

[AGStewart]

@seberusnet Not only to lighten the barrel, its used to increase air cooling capacity by increasing external surface area... and it looks cool.

[John4566442]

@AGStewart I've always thought that the idea of increasing cooling by fluting was bs. My reasoning is that by fluting, you reduce barrel mass. The less mass (steel) the LESS it will disapate heat. Old air cooled machineguns used fins on their barrels to add mass and external surface area. Flutes reduce it. Just my 2 cents. I think fluted barrels look cool, regardless.

[50kT]

@John4566442 but by fluting you are also increasing surface area, this will allow more heat from the surface to dissipate. so perhaps what you lose in mass you gain in surface area, then fluting is the same as not fluting. lol i dunno just thinking out loud

[scuds03]

Desert Eagle has the best barrel

[TacticalAdv]

might want to learn how to spell ANSCHÜTZ before tell everyone how great they are

[leloodallasmultipass]

replace the words "ruger" and "marlin" with "ford" and "chevy" and you start to notice a pattern out there.

This vid is otherwise pretty inspirational- my buddy is going to get a Tormach and we will be doing all kinds of fun stuff on it

[juggnautbitch]

10/22's are junk. marlin model 60 is best.

[300sniper]

@juggnautbitch and thanks for sharing your opinion.

[drewnickel]

@juggnautbitch haha no they arent, I've made 300yd shots with a freaking .22 cal 10/22. there is nothing crap about it, I cant even hit something at 200yds with a normal 22 or a competition .22, it's meant for long range accuracy and holding consistent groups, not holding one hole groups at point blank range (though it can accheive that too) plus there are alot of after market mods that make it even better

[dserf101]

@drewnickel 300 yards with a .22 ruger , consistently ??? care to put up a video of that, that's the only way I'll buy that B.S. !!

[drewnickel]

@dserf101 consistantly on a 6" steel plate, it's very good with the aguila super max magnum .22lr loads, 1750fps keeps it supersonic out at very long range, it wont go subsonic until about 350yds, so 300yds is about it's max. it only loses accuracy when the transonic barrier is left and the bullet begins to tumble. bet a match 24 or 28" barrel with 6 grooves and a match trigger for the best results, and also a single shot bolt to allow it to lock in place instead of ejecting the shell afterwards

[dserf101]

@drewnickel Now you are talking about a complete custom gun, how can you call it a ruger anymore ?

it's just a technicality that it has a "ruger" any where on it ! still waiting on the video.

[drewnickel]

@dserf101 it's based on the ruger 10/22, but it allows great accuracy. in some circumstances I've heard of an occasional hit on a 6" target at 400yds. it's not easy once you pass 200yds, but a ruger 10/22, marlin model 60, any good customizeable .22 rifle will allow consistant shots at long range. just have to figure out the best round for it, and keep it supersonic to the range your shooting, or dont even go supersonic. plus the gun has to fit you, it has to be like an extension of you.

[pinenut50]

@juggnautbitch I work on a lot of model 60's, they'er a cheap rifle and will not stand up to a 10/22 in competition.

[thunderkustums]

The ruger 10/22 is in my opinion one of the most reliable and accurate plinkers on the market. simple rugged affordable. there is more accurate and better built rifles on the market which are definatly better. 10/22 are just fun to play with though sayin you can get anything you want to uprade them for a reasonable price. and with the right work are extremely accurate relaible target rifles

[sentinal2000]

nice cnc 4th axis setup , shame the work is being done on a barrel for an unreliable pile of crap 1022 , oh i missed so many good opportunities cos the one i had kept jamming

[300sniper]

mine works flawlessly. if yours is an unreliable pile of crap and keeps jamming, maybe you should fix what is wrong.

[sentinal2000]

i did fix it , i sold it and got a german anschutze and now it all works fine . the rotary magazine system seems unreliable and prone to jamming , causing many a "click" on the point of shot and lotsof frustration , it got so bad it was like russian roulette

[300sniper]

i am still using, and actually prefer my original 15 year old magazine. it works fine and if it didn't, i'd clean it or cough up a whopping $15 and get a new one.

[SOLOK1LLA]

u shouldve got a butler creek 25 round mag for it them guns are awesome totaly customizable

[junkiecoyote]

Jamming issues are an easy fix, could be headspace, extractor, chamber dimensions, ammo issues... I've never expected a firearm to function at 100% out of the box without a little tlc, with a bit of knowledge and work 10/22s outperform ANY other .22lr semi auto in accuracy and reliability.

[rawimpact]

@sentinal2000 you're a moron, the ruger is one of the best rimfire rifles out there.

[sentinal2000]

if i'm a moron , you clearly still drink from your momma ! retard. the 10.22 is shit . how many world championships has it won eh? try anschutze or walther. idiot!!!

[300sniper]

@sentinal2000 just because something hasn't won world championships, doesn't make it shit. you are not comparing similar platforms designed for similar uses.

[drewnickel]

@sentinal2000 dude, there is no rifle as customizable as a ruger 10/22, you can get amazing match grade barrels, highly improved triggers, a slide catch, a 50rd magazine, a lighter trigger pull, or even a full auto conversion. heck, even a silencer for when you have to take out pests with stealth

[Robalose]

@sentinal2000 Yeah I mean Anybody could afford to go out and buy an anschutz Its not like they have a finite amount of money.

[TheHiddenPart]

People at Rimfirecentral doesn't really think the Ruger is any superior to the CZ452.

In fact, i'm on the market for a .22lr carbine and guess what am i gonna buy?

Solid, Forged Steel. CZ.

[300sniper]

let me know when you find a cz452 that is semi-auto so we can compare similar platforms.

let me know when you find a cz452 that weighs 5-1/2 lbs with optics so we can compare similar platforms.

let me know when you find a cz452 that is 34-1/2" long so we can compare similar platforms.

[TheHiddenPart]

I see what you did there.

[ankorsteam]

no cz peice of crap is better than a us made ruger pal! never sell out to the commies! have a little patriotism.

[Nac56]

ruger makes some epic fail shit

[crankbearing]

Ruger 10/22 is THE most popular firearm on the planet. Even some 3rd world countries issue them to soldiers. Plus every part is made by like 5 different aftermarket companies.

[TESLAZPF]

CZ nothing special...had two got rid of them in four months.... chech junk....

Parts constantly braking....could not develop a decent load..junk pure and simple

My trusty Rugger M77 has never let me down...

And is a tac driver.....

[handmetheclip]

Get yourself a CZ 452 right out of the box and there won't be a need to do any extreme modifications like this.

[300sniper]

so a cz 452 is going to weigh 5.5 lbs with picatinny rail and aimpoint comp m and be 34.5" long oal? oh, and be semi auto?

i'm not sure where you got the idea that fluting a barrel on a 10/22 had anything to do with competing with a cz.

[1967spud]

get yourself a cz right of the box and what have you got a - an exspensive fence post at best

[fusionstar916]

lol.. rugers suck.. cz's are better.

[conatuslife]

was that helical cut? if so was it done on cnc if not how was your dividing head set up? i have two re barrel projects planned and i would like to try a helical flute on one of them.

[300sniper]

they were straight cut flutes. it was done on cnc and could easily do helical flutes with the 4th axis.

[uzim16]

anywhere I can find a video for hammer or button a barrel?

[FreedomsPatriot]

Now when Wiseman & McMillan started fluting barrels in the 80's, he always stated you have to machine one side and then turn it 180 to keep it from warping?

[300sniper]

that is probably the best way to do it. i am still teaching myself machining and have much to learn. there was only 5 flutes on this barrel so 180 wouldn't have worked but i could have cut them in 144* increments though.

in all honesty, i didn't care much as this was not a bench rest quality gun. it is more for high speed plinking and i didn't see any negative effects from the fluting. it still shoots great.

[FreedomsPatriot]

"i am still teaching myself machining and have much to learn."

That is how it works, it is addictive isn't it? I had the pleasure of learning much from a real master machinist/gunsmith, I learned real fast after decades of learning I just "thought" I knew a lot about it...lol.

"... have worked but i could have cut them in 144* increments though."

I figured you would know what I meant. BTW, you might consider placing a few supports underneath the barrel for tool push off for equal depth."

[300sniper]

it is very addicting. i don't really have any one to teach me so i am having to learn from the internet and books. i am slowly getting it but still have a long ways to go.

others have also suggested using a v-block under the center of the barrel to reduce deflection. this barrel was only 16" and seemed pretty rigid. if i do it again, i will definatly use your advice.

[FreedomsPatriot]

Hang in there as long as your wife will put up with you for all the new tooling you will just have to have for the next 40 years!...lol.

Good books like Gun Smithing Kinks go a long way, but the internet it really handy on learning new & old ideas.

V-blocks, fine, it is just that the barrel will warp some just because of stresses relieved also. Lately I learned a hammer forged barrels bore will grow in Diameter when tappering while a button rifled bore will shrink? Articles by Daniel Lilja.

[300sniper]

i have read a few articles on fluting cut and button rifled barrels. it sounds like most agree that a barrel with cut rifling will not be effected drastically if fluted after the rifling. i think button and forged rifled barrels can be effected negatively. i really have no idea how the rifling was done on the barrel in the video. it was just a cheap butler creek barrel. i felt it was cheap enough to experiment with. it still shoots great though.

i will have to check out "gunsmithing kinks".

[FreedomsPatriot]

I hear you.

I think there are now 4 "kinks" books published now and it seems there is always one "best" source for each different firearm if you care to specialize. I am sure you have a Brownell's catalog by now?

brownells.*com/aspx/NS/store/c­atsearch.*aspx?k=gunsmithing%2­0kinks&ps=10&si=True

[alderaforall]

16" is a pretty long workpiece. you probably did get alot of deflection when you did this. the v blocks are a great suggestion as well as multiple light cuts until you reach the desired depth then take a dead pass or two.

[commaderjam]

why do u need so much?

[opensourcelinuxm]

I saw your thread on ARF. Pretty cool. What is the white liquid?

[300sniper]

flood coolant.