Lev Oborin plays Chopin Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op. 23

[bach5861]

Russian piano school is THE BEST!!!

[Bruce88keys]

I heard Lev Oborin at the newly opened Lincoln Center at what was then called 'Philharmonic Hall' he played a Beethoven Concerto with Bernstein & the NYPhil-

I guess alot other people heard him too-:)

[SkylarkUtopian]

Oborin is so awesome!

I feel sorry for that I cannot get so many CD he plays.

Usually, Chopin's music give me much pain or sorrow.

But Oborin's performance is different.

His performance just give me impression and something positive.

That is why I think Oborin is one of the outstanding greatest pianists.

[SkylarkUtopian]

super excellent performance!!!

it sounds so noble , pure, and positive...not so emotional.

i love works like this.

[SurvivingBear]

@acortot

Yes and no. I have been thinking about what you are saying. Good music is good music I agree, even if , to most of us, classical music requires more involvement as truecrypt writes below. However, I cannot agree that today's music education is only about technique. I think in any profession / vocation, if we radically separate content from form competence, we end up in flops. I guess there is bad and good music education like in all fields... .

[acortot]

@SurvivingBear Yes it's not only technique. Today's teaching method is rooted in following rigid directives. You have the schools which are often more audible than the pianist..

what school did Paderewski belong to? How about Liszt or Chopin?

[SurvivingBear]

@acortot

Yes, I understand. I feel that Paderewski, Liszt, and Chopin were geniuses. They controlled technique totally, then they had a very strong intellect to conceive of musical meaning or rather of meaning in musical terms, and finally they possessed the gift to express this meaning through sound. Maybe, from these three parametres only the first is controllable to "reproduce" by training, the second can be cultivated, promoted, but not forced, and the third is even less in our control.

[themindandmusic]

@SurvivingBear I agree with most of what you're saying. But when you talk about about control in your sentence - do you mean that it's impossible to be controlled by teachers, conservatories, external people? Or do you mean it's impossible to be controlled by one's own self, internally?

[SurvivingBear]

@themindandmusic

I used the term "control" to mean two different things: (a) "Chopin controlled the technique totally" = Chopin possessed all the necessary knowledge and technical competence; (b) ".... only the first is "controllable"..." = I meant that only the first parametre, that of improving technique competence, is really possible to practice effectively; while the other two parametres can be cultivated, but they cannot be "forced to happen".

[gullivior]

both composers and performers, are a medium of spiritual power that, through them, is revealed in music ... each work is composed of spiritual and unconscious elements that the author himself does not know ... each performer can reveal this in a different way ... deep, superficial, emotional, logical, narcissist ... this is the same complexity of the human being ... Oborin was an extraordinary medium!

[ANTiRussia1]

this is not musician, too.

[truecrypt]

@ANTiRussia1

Your great compatriot Aram Khachaturian didn't share your views though. He dedicated his piano concerto to Lev Oborin who premiered it. Looks like your music taste is defined by political views. Xenophobia is not the best guide to the world of music.

[ANTiRussia1]

@truecrypt here is nothing to do with politics, oborin is not composer and so is not musician, he just a piano player and not right performes GREAT CHOPiN's ballade Aram Khachaturian is not great as to me, and how can you know if he would share it or no?

[truecrypt]

@ANTiRussia1

Performers ARE musicians and co-creators. Yes, there are "piano players", but pianists like Oborin, Richter, Sofronitsky, Neuhaus, Rubinstein and MANY others are truly GREAT MUSICIANS. I saw your comment on Karen Kornienko playing... Why not to prove that you can do better? ;)

As for Khachaturian - I knew both Aram Ilyich and Lev Nikolayevich. They were great musicians and will remain as such regardless of your "opinion".

[ANTiRussia1]

@truecrypt who are you? oborin, richter, rubinstein, gilels

to prove what I can do better I need at least a piano, UNFORTUNATELY, currently am where there is no piano, I uploaded 2 clips when had opportunity to play, just a half an hour training before recording,but it was ease for me cause I do have composer skills and thus understandidng of music. I remember the scripts from music school, last time it was 2 years ago before it I played about a week and 9 years ago played about a month

[truecrypt]

@ANTiRussia1

So, according to your (twisted in my opinion) logic, you are a *musician* because you have "composer skills", but Oborin, Richter, Rubinstein and Gilels are just "piano players". I knew many bad students who used to say "if I only could practice, I would..." and you know what - they've never achieved anything...

[ANTiRussia1]

@truecrypt who are you? I wanted to say that oborin, richter, rubinstein, gilels are not musicians too, cause there are many very obvious simple musical falses in their "performing"

if anybody is not able to play Chopin music like Chopin did play then he is not musician. Note that Chopin said only List was able to play Chopin

[truecrypt]

@ANTiRussia1

Let's leave aside "who are you" - we both are who we are.

Your idea about "many very obvious musical falses" is absolutely moronic.

Another one even more so...

How about if performer plays better than composer? Does it automatically turn composer into "non-musician*? ;) And please don't take Chopin's complements literally...

[ANTiRussia1]

@truecrypt a player /a person different from composer/  can not perform better than composer, he can perform like a composer or such right as composer plays if he do have enough composer level what is called to be a musician.

Why today do people listen jazz music? Because it played by composer, i.e. right. The same time they dont like classical music because there is none who could correctly perform Bach, Chopin etc

[truecrypt]

@ANTiRussia1

Absolutely wrong and twisted perception!

Porn is much more in demand than Rembrand's paintings and pop music is more popular than Mozart. Why? Because it takes mental and spiritual efforts to appreciate classical music. People are lazy and prefer "ready-to-eat" food. This why Playboy and Lady Gaga will always be more popular than Dostoevsky and Bach. Even if Beethoven himself would release a set of CDs tomorrow, it wouldn't make him more popular than Beatles.

[themindandmusic]

@truecrypt Truecrypt I have a quick question.... I'm not attacking your views or siding with ANTiRussia1..... You say that Dostoyevsky and Bach will always remain less popular than Lagy Gaga etc. However, Bach has lasted since the 18th century, Dostoyevsky is popular now..... yet Lady Gaga and the like will fade out not too long from now. Doesn't this mean that, in the long run, what's good, intelligent, valuable etc. will always win over the stupid? Thanks.

[truecrypt]

@themindandmusic

You are absolutely right! What I actually meant was that at any given time *pure entertainment* always wins over serious art in terms of everyday popularity - "panem et circenses"...

ANTiRussia1 made a point that classical music is not popular because performers can't completely implement composer's intentions... so they are not "musicians", etc. This goes beyond stupidity...

BTW really good pop music has all chances to survive the test of time. Beatles, for example...

[themindandmusic]

@truecrypt alright thank you! Let's see how far ANTiRussia1 will go with *compositional skills* while he goes around attacking the concept of performance and he himself practices only rarely......

[acortot]

@truecrypt I think that good pop music has the same quality of artistic life-energy and relevance as good classical music. Let's not forget that in chopin's time the chances of a pianist becoming famous because he played someone else's music were very slim. pianists were composers and artists and therefore these elements could not be separated.today we have classical music which is executed but not felt, not understood.. it is irrelevant to most people and relevant to the few who live off of it

[truecrypt]

@acortot

I agree with almost everything you said! We shouldn't judge even the audience...

My only point was that classical music requires more intellectual and emotional involvement than let's say relatively "primitive tune". Time will sort it all out! ;)

[acortot]

@truecrypt what I meant by 'judging' is that a primitive audience (culturally underdeveloped) will react to art which is at their level. Similarly an audience which has been taught from birth not to follow natural instincts but to follow aesthetics pushed upon them by media and institutions will react to symbolic or stylistic art which they understand, not being able to judge beauty in it's natural form. So instead of the word judge maybe evaluate or identify is a better way of putting it.

[acortot]

@truecrypt And although I don't have any lady gaga albums, 'her' music is relevant to the culture, the audience, she performs for.. the key thing is to have a legitimate interaction with an audience... Chopin had a legitimante interaction with HIS audience..

So we should be judging the audience as well as the music.

Lady gaga appeals to an audience which is limited in many ways, I believe, whereas the Beatles have a worldwide universal appeal which goes beyond the superficial and non musical

[themindandmusic]

@ANTiRussia1 your claims are all very susceptible to a simple claim: where would this composition be be without a performance of it? Without the performer, we wouldn't be able to hear even the physical sounds, let alone the meaning behind them! Do you think Chopin wrote this down as an end in itself - just for the sake of writing text on a piece of manuscript paper - or did he want it to be performed?

[themindandmusic]

@ANTiRussia1 Looking at a piece of sheet music does not produce any meaning is - and isn't that an essential of art, the meaning? Hearing it reproduced in sound as just the text doesn't allow me to hear the meaning either. Performer has a very important purpose - to show, to make real, the meaning of the composition. The score by itself is neccesarily an unfinished product, not in its content but in its nature. The performer has to show us the thought behind the score, in his or her own way.

[ANTiRussia1]

@themindandmusic  stupid things you'r talking ab.

[themindandmusic]

@ANTiRussia1 No need to discuss who's stupid and who's not, as that's very clear. Do you deny what I said? And btw I'm glad to see your ability to defend your views, although I have to admit it's hard to defend a view which is utterly and ridiculously indefensible

[themindandmusic]

@ANTiRussia1 The meaning of the work is not readily apparent by itself; in this case we would have scores playing themselves. It is not knowable in just the score appearing through sound, because everything Chopin wrote on the score was for a purpose, a thought. The meaning behind the work has to be shown to us through the performer. The composer creates the (artistic, emotional, intellectual) content, through the score, and the performer shows us the content through his own interpretation.

[ANTiRussia1]

@truecrypt I even do not like all what aram khachaturian wrote, at least he mocked at armenian music eclectically using it, too, so never say he is an armenian composer, may name him soviet or russian as you like

[truecrypt]

@ANTiRussia1

I understand you prefer ethnic cleanness... Probably the next logical step is a call for Ethnic cleansing... Hasn't Armenia had enough of it?

[ANTiRussia1]

@truecrypt what are talking about? ethnic? I hate such words! you did do understand very WRONG!

[uhartchristian]

another great musician very little known in the west..... His quality is comparable to Rubinstein and Horowitz... No doubt why he won the chopin competition....

[ipmoic]

To me, it is the lack of affectation and the positive, energetic emotion Oborin displays that makes this playing so remarkable.

Let us never forget that Chopin greatly loved George Sand (and her daughter?) and that he admired Liszt, a pianist who could play with the power that the frail Chopin lacked.

[dialecticon]

exquisite this mixture of unaffected cantabile and directness, a far cry from the effeminate mannierisms of some more recent Chopin competition winners. It is rare to see pianists get the rubato in the Ballade right. A ballade is a casual walk, and very few succeed in conveying that regular but never monotonous pulse.

[cattleman6420012000]

This is fabulous sensitive playing. I read somewhere that he won the first Chopin competition. He was a fantastic pianist.

[cattleman6420012000]

This man had unbelieavable musical flair. He had such lovely sensitivity and amazing interpretation. To me he is so unique and individual. His playing is not like others.

[cattleman6420012000]

Lev Oborin was Vladimir Ashkenazy's teacher for a while. He also played wonderful chamber music with the late David Oistrakh.

[PhilPhilUSA]

What a treat to hear this stunning performance!!!! Thanks.

[AndreiKrakovsky]

Oborin greater than Hofmann? Perhaps. Oborin's use of rubato and dynamics add a depth to the emotional quality of this piece that I simply don't hear in Hofmann....

[SSSLAWWWA]

Thank you so much for posting! What a great pianist!..

[Starwalker6978]

I've just listened Josef Hoffman playing this (live recording), it isn't fair, but I think I shan't like any other performance of this work for a some while! Hoffman outplayed even the best Horowitz recording, I've never heard such a Ballade op.23 of Chopin; particular towards the coda, what a sense for rhythm!

[antoinezygfryd]

Oborin manque de style,voilà la différence avec Hoffman.

De plus je me permets de faire remarquer que les duolets sont parfaitement joués par Hoffman (et aussi Michelangeli) alors que Lev Oborin en fait presque des croches....--.Le presto con fuoco final est fort beau, pourtant Kemal Gekic ouvre une autre perspective...

Peter Schmalfuss fait aussi bien,à mon avis.N'oublions pas non plus l'incroyable beauté de cette oeuvre!

[iuncemacart]

does anybody know the story behind this Ballade?

[leftygr13]

is there a story?

[AnnMarry19]

"Konrad Wallendrod" A. Mickiewicz

[kempff95]

I know, this story is about chopins mam, sarha ,that not have a husband that love her,

That ballade chopin wrote to his mam and richter........

[mxtiplitz]

It´s perhaps the best interpretation I´ve ever heard. It´s very similar to Horowitz interpretation. Surely, and God forbid, with the disappearance of the pianists of the golden age of the century and XI-XX condemned to listen to pianists-prestidigitator without musical training and the quality of the former Russia (not the current one) and the academies of the countries in the east.

[pjioayncoe]

Dear Mxtiplitz, how is THIS similar to Horowitz's interpretation?

[AdaPianoSchool]

It is the best performance of this composition!

Thank you very much.

[pjioayncoe]

After hearing so many versions of this ballade and then listening to this, it all of a sudden made sense. Oborin's "straightforwardness" is strangely haunting and immensely beautiful.

Thank you Truecrypt.

[ezekieloak]

Whoa! This is stellar.

[formenlehre]

Good.

[willrobinson1229]

this pianist has everything: technical brilliance, passion, poetry, heart - FABULOUS!

[formenlehre]

He was the first winner of the Chopin International Competition. That was in 1927.

[willrobinson1229]

Not surprised, of course! :)

[klausknulp]

thank you so much for sharing with me this wonderful recording of a great grandmaster!